[HN Gopher] Google will shut down Dropcam and Nest Secure in 2024
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Google will shut down Dropcam and Nest Secure in 2024
Author : turtlegrids
Score : 87 points
Date : 2023-04-12 19:21 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
| kotaKat wrote:
| "We will be contacting eligible Nest Secure customers on Friday
| with an exclusive offer for a complimentary next-generation
| security system from ADT (up to $485 value), or $200 to use on
| the Google Store."
|
| Does anyone _willingly_ want to go ADT? Home of the three year
| contract, the long-winded-drawn-out cancellation processes, the
| constant door-knocking and chasing down to sign up for service,
| the constant glut of fees and charges when things go wrong...
| kabdib wrote:
| ADT is garbage.
|
| I canceled ADT service about 15 years ago. For the next few
| years they were mailing open-air ads to my address asking me to
| reconnect the alarm system.
|
| I managed to reach someone in their C-suite, who told me
| directly that they were unconcerned about that type of privacy
| data being made available to anyone who happened to read a
| literal postcard.
| vuln wrote:
| Duh. How else are they going to fear monger you into
| reconnecting.
|
| "Look everyone knows you no longer have an alarm, or alarm
| service"
| AdamJacobMuller wrote:
| I'm definitely among the unwilling.
|
| I'm using nest secure now, anyone have any suggestions for a
| replacement?
|
| At least they aren't killing my smoke alarms, though, they
| _still_ can 't automatically dispatch fire/police if there is
| smoke/fire, though they will dispatch if an alarm is triggered.
| zacharyvoase wrote:
| Fortunately I never had to rely on it, but Simplisafe was
| super easy to set up, and had a nice app/interface/customer
| support.
| WirelessGigabit wrote:
| I wonder how many false alarms the fire department would get
| if they get dispatched every time a smoke alarm goes off.
|
| And I'm one of the guilty ones. Well, the apartment I live at
| is. Its range hood is one of those things that even after
| putting in brand new filters and extensive cleaning barely
| performs better as one of those fake ones at Ikea.
|
| Same with the bathroom fan. When you turn it on it's loud,
| but it just circulates air. So I open the door. But that sets
| of the smoke alarm in the hallway...
| dylan604 wrote:
| What are you doing in the bathroom that sets off a smoke
| alarm?
| WirelessGigabit wrote:
| Hot shower = steam, which triggers a smoke detector!
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuAeaIcAXtg
| phpisthebest wrote:
| Roll your own Self Hosted Solution,
|
| Either Buy DSC Wired Gear yourself[1] and install it (hard)
| or do a "less secure" wireless system using HomeAssistance
| and Zigbee or Zwave devices.
|
| [1]https://www.level1techs.com/video/better-iot-dsc-alarms-
| whom...
| kotaKat wrote:
| Don't forget you can add an AlarmDecoder to a DSC (or
| Honeywell Vista) system!
|
| https://www.alarmdecoder.com/
|
| It basically sits on the keypad bus of the system and
| emulates a normal keypad, so you can integrate it into
| whatever applications you want like HomeKit, or as my
| colleagues did, a fully homespun bespoke home automation
| suite in .NET.
| kotaKat wrote:
| Personally if I have to go into an 'alarm' ecosystem I'd go
| with Alarm.com if you're serious about paying for monitoring.
|
| My favorite vendor is https://suretyhome.com/ - they have
| reasonable costs to get an alarm panel running with
| monitoring and all the normal integrations.
|
| (I personally use an older Honeywell Vista security system
| that's been integrated into ADC via a communicator. The sky's
| the limit!)
| jonathankoren wrote:
| Is alarm.com just a vendor for other providers like Brinks?
| kotaKat wrote:
| They _do_ , yes. Some equipment Brinks and ADT sells also
| is part of the ADC ecosystem, but is restricted to only
| those vendors.
|
| Any other alarm.com gear is generally fair game as long
| as it's been released from any account it's on from any
| monitoring company.
| azinman2 wrote:
| I'm surprised this space isn't better disrupted. They all
| aren't that great, even the new comers. Either they don't
| have wide product coverage, only work with certain assistants
| / apps, are ugly, terrible UX, etc.
|
| As much as I don't think it's that great, Ring seems to be
| the best of the bunch now.
| phpisthebest wrote:
| Security and more importantly Fire Alarm has ALOT more
| regulations and liablity than just a simple Automation to
| turn on the lights...
|
| That is why you do not see as much activity in Security or
| Fire Alarms as you to other Home Automation, and most
| likely why Google went with ADT instead of rolling their
| own with Nest... Someone in legal look at that and said
| "Yea lets let ADT lawyers deal with that"
| jonathankoren wrote:
| It's a good enough product with recurring subscription
| revenue. There's zero reason to innovate. Everything is a
| cost, and it's unclear that customers actually want
| "better".
| j45 wrote:
| It's wise to closely review and avoid the marketing of
| companies selling old infrastructure repackaged as new.
| Security companies are looking for new lines of revenue.
|
| Telcos, and cable companies will often private label existing
| solutions that are made for enterprise (B2E) and not really
| meant for B2C as well, let alone B2B (small business)
|
| You would be better off finding something like Home Assistant
| and stumbling through connecting something together.
| jimbobimbo wrote:
| The best part of ADT is when the sales guy spends an hour face-
| to-face with you and you learn about 3-year commitment next
| day, from the installer guy, who (wisely) asks whether you are
| aware of 3-year commitment before wiring anything.
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| It's not just ADT. We finally managed to escape from a contract
| with Brinks, after Brinks bought our previous provider,
| Livewatch, a few years ago.
|
| It was hell, and in the end they made us sign a bunch of shit
| via docusign (!), and even then you're forced to pay for 30
| days more service while they bombard you with scaremails.
|
| Never again.
| kotaKat wrote:
| ADT, Brinks, and Vivint are the three shitty horsemen of the
| home security industry.
| phpisthebest wrote:
| Surely there has to be a forth company....
| louky wrote:
| Simplysafe. At least their you can't disable their
| current generation of alarms with a $3 transmitter.
| Criminally negligent but oh well.
| ubermonkey wrote:
| Wow, sounds like they've gotten pretty shitty.
|
| I've been using ADT for 26 years, and in my current home for
| 23. I have had no issues with them, and have found them
| responsive when alarms happen or equipment needed to be
| replaced.
|
| OTOH, some pals have a Simplisafe setup and it's been a darkly
| hilarious saga of nonfunctional sensors, false alarms, and
| ongoing chicanery.
| kccqzy wrote:
| Considering that Dropcam came out in 2012, (and the Pro version
| in 2013) I think this is actually good enough. We don't expect
| IoT devices from other brands to be working forever either. Not
| even Apple supports their devices for that long. Google just gets
| a lot of hate on HN but this isn't anything deserving that much
| hate.
|
| The article kind of made the same point:
|
| > Google previously committed to supporting Nest products for at
| least five years, and it did meet that standard. If you've been
| holding onto a Dropcam for more than a decade, it's hard to argue
| that you didn't get your money's worth
| hedora wrote:
| Stuff that is integrated into your house needs to last more
| than 5 years.
|
| Hell, standard warranties on new homes are 10 years, and I'd
| wager if a developer built a bunch of houses that stopped
| working after ten years and a day, they'd lose badly in court.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| The 10 year warranty is only for structural stuff (or the
| "bones") I believe, not for things like
| doors/windows/finishes/fixtures/etc. In a cheaply tract built
| house, that stuff will wear out within 5 years.
| crooked-v wrote:
| The objection isn't that they're dropping support for specific
| older devices... it's that they're dropping support for the
| entire platform, including Nest cameras that are still on sale
| _right now_.
| greycol wrote:
| The major issue is we know the minimal least effort steps
| involved to keep these things working aren't hard.
|
| Release a firmware update that updates the device to only point
| to ips/domains in the private range as it's new
| control/update/whatever server and update any security certs to
| a new releasable one.
|
| Then open source the server software if not still in use, or
| roll back the firmware the x number of years to the point were
| the requirements to maintain the device started diverging and
| release that version of the updated old firmware/old server
| source.
|
| There's no ongoing cost to the company and people can continue
| to use their devices if they wish to put in the effort to
| maintain it. I mean I'm not up in arms about this case, but
| it's such a common story about how device/software is no longer
| usable because finance wants to turn off a server that it
| should be SOP in every sunset plan. I'd go so far as saying it
| should be regulated as the minimum.
| gnicholas wrote:
| Does anyone know of the devices will work even locally? That
| would provide some value, though of course most of the value is
| in remote notifications and status availability.
|
| Separately, is there any chance that folks here might be able to
| come up with something like Rebble to give these devices life
| into the future? I have a lot of sensors and hate to think this
| will go completely to waste!
|
| UPDATE: If these will still run locally (like they can now when
| my wifi is down), then I'd probably buy a HomePod Mini and train
| it on the Nest's alarm sound for use with the Sound Detection
| feature. [1] I first heard of this feature at an Apple
| presentation at the CSUN Assistive Technology conference and
| thought it sounded really useful.
|
| Although it wouldn't let me know what door/window was opened, it
| would at least send an alert to my phone so that I would know to
| look into things further.
|
| 1: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/01/18/homepod-sound-
| recogniti...
| tracker1 wrote:
| They likely won't... but would really appreciate if, when
| hardware vendors EOL their products they'd release schema
| diagrams and protocol documentation. There's no reason you
| shouldn't get at _LEAST_ a decade out of these. It 's the main
| thing that has kept me from any kind of "smart home" integration
| at all.
|
| I wound up going with a security package from my cable company
| (kind of crappy cameras, tbh), but I'm not thinking in terms of
| ownership at this level. In the end, it's just disappointing in
| general how much churn there is in the tech space.
|
| Similarly, I'm not going to buy a fridge, or washing machine with
| a built in tablet, when they stop receiving updates in under a
| year usually. It's just really crappy as a race to the bottom.
| Either start with a rental/subscription model, or be prepared to
| maintain the product for a decade. Homes and cars aren't churned
| like phones.
| gnicholas wrote:
| Yep, Rebble kept my Pebble running for many years after the
| company was bought. I finally gave up on it because the battery
| life got so short, and I don't trust myself to repair it
| decently. I loved that thing, and I'm so glad it was able to
| live beyond the acquisition of the company!
|
| Hopefully someone can figure out a way to do something similar
| for these devices.
| cptcobalt wrote:
| Another day, another google death https://killedbygoogle.com/
|
| With this track record I never plan on using a new google
| product. Now, I will immediately stop using or sell anything I
| have that is acquired by google. It seems like they're only
| capable of leaving a trail of corpses of past good ideas.
| rodgerd wrote:
| Don't buy a GM car, then.
| ubermonkey wrote:
| I heard this news and was all set to be annoyed, since I have a
| Dropcam we set up when we're away from the house for longer
| trips, but then I checked my records and realized I've had it
| for 9 years, & of course they're only sunsetting it NEXT year.
|
| Ten years is okay.
| dylan604 wrote:
| >I will immediately stop using or sell anything I have that is
| acquired by google.
|
| This is the crux though. You could be totally satisfied with a
| non-Googly product, but suddenly become a Googly user when
| Googs buys the successful company. I feel this way about Amazon
| buying the Roomba company.
| Takennickname wrote:
| These aren't even good ideas. They're acquisitions. They could
| have been totally fine, profitable companies on their own.
| jeffbee wrote:
| > They could have been totally fine, profitable companies on
| their own.
|
| Very, very unlikely. The business model was an illusion.
| codemac wrote:
| They haven't released a Dropcam in 8 years? "Nest Secure" was
| cancelled in 2020.. and now they're saying "hey, we'll actually
| turn things off in 2024"
|
| I think the reason killedbygoogle.com actually exists is
| because they try to be professional about notifying folks of
| things they are EoL, and communicate updates along the way.
| GalenErso wrote:
| Until the prophecy is fulfilled and Google voluntarily shuts
| itself down, in the ultimate twist of irony.
| rconti wrote:
| > Now that it's dropping Dropcam and Nest Secure, the Nest
| Protect smart smoke alarms are the only Nest App-only devices
| left
|
| Wait, what does this mean? Does this mean my Nest thermostat
| has... another app I can use? I mean, the Nest app is a dumpster
| fire of deferred features. The only reason I know it's been
| touched in the past 9 years is because the app was updated to
| work full-screen on the iPhone X.
| warp wrote:
| Presumably the Google Home app? That's where they moved the
| Google Wifi stuff too before they stopped updating the
| dedicated Google Wifi app.
| rconti wrote:
| To reply to myself, this is some fantastic word soup, but it
| looks like I can use the Google app? Or the Home app? Possibly
| they're different things? It'll be fascinating to see if I can
| do fancy modern high tech thermostat things like... override a
| schedule.
|
| >Once you add your Google Nest thermostat to the Home or Nest
| app, you can easily control it even when you're not at home.
|
| > The Nest Thermostat can only be controlled with the Home app.
|
| > You can control the Nest Learning Thermostat and Nest
| Thermostat E with the Home app after you migrate your Nest
| Account to a Google Account.
|
| > The Nest app also offers full control and settings for the
| Nest Learning Thermostat and Nest Thermostat E.
| enjo wrote:
| It's the Google Home app. Hopefully they'll invest in the
| interface quite a bit over the coming year but it does a good
| job of managing all of the devices in my home right now. So
| this isn't a huge issue. The weird problem of having both the
| Nest app and Google Home has always been really weird.
| rconti wrote:
| It looks like you have to migrate your Nest to the Google
| Home app in order to control schedules in Google Home. (As
| it is now, I can change the _current_ temp as a one-off, or
| do voice control, but I can 't change schedules).
|
| Unfortunately, it sounds like the scheduling is just as
| simplistic and featureless as the scheduling in the native
| Nest app. (Eg, manually set up each day, with basic
| copy+paste functionality (probably), no overrides, no
| ability to do anything different from week to week). So, I
| probably won't risk the migration.
| bdcravens wrote:
| When I was weighing Ring vs Nest security systems, I'm glad I
| went with Ring.
| diogenescynic wrote:
| Well this stinks. Guess I will think twice about ever giving
| money to Google again. The run has been pulled out from under me
| by Google enough times to consider them worth avoiding.
| zmk5 wrote:
| With the news that they are shutting down the Google assistant
| smart displays, the best thing you can do now is just not have
| smart devices like these in your house or just use Home
| assistant. They're just waiting to go to the landfill.
| tracker1 wrote:
| Yeah... as much as I wouldn't mind doing more "smart home"
| stuff, I absolutely won't as I don't trust anything to be
| supported for a decade or more, which is where I consider home
| stuff should be.
| minhazm wrote:
| They're cutting off software updates for third party displays.
| Their own displays will continue to be supported... for now.
| rio517 wrote:
| Imagine being one of the companies impacted by this. It
| becomes a lesson in not partnering with Google.
| philprx wrote:
| "Google, the finest place where startups and products go to die"
| ;-)
| geodel wrote:
| Earth, the finest place where all living things born to die.
| kamray23 wrote:
| Honestly, how many surviving Google products were developed at
| Google instead of outside it and then got absorbed by it at
| some point? They keep absorbing working startups and often
| killing their products to work on new products, only for those
| products to always be incredibly niche and never survive more
| than half a decade or so. Basically only the actual business-
| oriented ones, with anything consumer-facing shutting down
| fairly quickly.
|
| God, G+ was bad though.
| nvy wrote:
| G+ had a good idea at its core, though. Facebook lost its
| appeal for 24-year-old me as soon as all my random aunts and
| uncles were on there posting boomer memes and commenting on
| photos of me at a kegger, or whatever dumb stuff I was
| getting photographed doing back then.
|
| The "Circles" feature was a nice way to address that in
| theory, but the execution was really half-baked and the
| network effect didn't help them.
| tracker1 wrote:
| Yeah, I actually really liked G+... it was a nicer
| experience for technical follows, etc. Twitter is a
| firehose and you can only effectively sample a little of
| it. Facebook is just a mess, I think the groups feature is
| somewhat nice, but other than that, it's chaotic. They're
| all trying to compete in wierd ways and making them all
| less useful.
|
| Mastadon seems interresting, but frankly I'd rather go back
| to IRC, and see some useful extensions to /whois details
| for better interconnectivity and profiles, but not so
| closed and walled garden as slack. Aside, I do still use
| irc for programming and bbs related stuff.
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