[HN Gopher] Google will shut down Dropcam and Nest Secure in 2024
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       Google will shut down Dropcam and Nest Secure in 2024
        
       Author : turtlegrids
       Score  : 87 points
       Date   : 2023-04-12 19:21 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
        
       | kotaKat wrote:
       | "We will be contacting eligible Nest Secure customers on Friday
       | with an exclusive offer for a complimentary next-generation
       | security system from ADT (up to $485 value), or $200 to use on
       | the Google Store."
       | 
       | Does anyone _willingly_ want to go ADT? Home of the three year
       | contract, the long-winded-drawn-out cancellation processes, the
       | constant door-knocking and chasing down to sign up for service,
       | the constant glut of fees and charges when things go wrong...
        
         | kabdib wrote:
         | ADT is garbage.
         | 
         | I canceled ADT service about 15 years ago. For the next few
         | years they were mailing open-air ads to my address asking me to
         | reconnect the alarm system.
         | 
         | I managed to reach someone in their C-suite, who told me
         | directly that they were unconcerned about that type of privacy
         | data being made available to anyone who happened to read a
         | literal postcard.
        
           | vuln wrote:
           | Duh. How else are they going to fear monger you into
           | reconnecting.
           | 
           | "Look everyone knows you no longer have an alarm, or alarm
           | service"
        
         | AdamJacobMuller wrote:
         | I'm definitely among the unwilling.
         | 
         | I'm using nest secure now, anyone have any suggestions for a
         | replacement?
         | 
         | At least they aren't killing my smoke alarms, though, they
         | _still_ can 't automatically dispatch fire/police if there is
         | smoke/fire, though they will dispatch if an alarm is triggered.
        
           | zacharyvoase wrote:
           | Fortunately I never had to rely on it, but Simplisafe was
           | super easy to set up, and had a nice app/interface/customer
           | support.
        
           | WirelessGigabit wrote:
           | I wonder how many false alarms the fire department would get
           | if they get dispatched every time a smoke alarm goes off.
           | 
           | And I'm one of the guilty ones. Well, the apartment I live at
           | is. Its range hood is one of those things that even after
           | putting in brand new filters and extensive cleaning barely
           | performs better as one of those fake ones at Ikea.
           | 
           | Same with the bathroom fan. When you turn it on it's loud,
           | but it just circulates air. So I open the door. But that sets
           | of the smoke alarm in the hallway...
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | What are you doing in the bathroom that sets off a smoke
             | alarm?
        
               | WirelessGigabit wrote:
               | Hot shower = steam, which triggers a smoke detector!
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuAeaIcAXtg
        
           | phpisthebest wrote:
           | Roll your own Self Hosted Solution,
           | 
           | Either Buy DSC Wired Gear yourself[1] and install it (hard)
           | or do a "less secure" wireless system using HomeAssistance
           | and Zigbee or Zwave devices.
           | 
           | [1]https://www.level1techs.com/video/better-iot-dsc-alarms-
           | whom...
        
             | kotaKat wrote:
             | Don't forget you can add an AlarmDecoder to a DSC (or
             | Honeywell Vista) system!
             | 
             | https://www.alarmdecoder.com/
             | 
             | It basically sits on the keypad bus of the system and
             | emulates a normal keypad, so you can integrate it into
             | whatever applications you want like HomeKit, or as my
             | colleagues did, a fully homespun bespoke home automation
             | suite in .NET.
        
           | kotaKat wrote:
           | Personally if I have to go into an 'alarm' ecosystem I'd go
           | with Alarm.com if you're serious about paying for monitoring.
           | 
           | My favorite vendor is https://suretyhome.com/ - they have
           | reasonable costs to get an alarm panel running with
           | monitoring and all the normal integrations.
           | 
           | (I personally use an older Honeywell Vista security system
           | that's been integrated into ADC via a communicator. The sky's
           | the limit!)
        
             | jonathankoren wrote:
             | Is alarm.com just a vendor for other providers like Brinks?
        
               | kotaKat wrote:
               | They _do_ , yes. Some equipment Brinks and ADT sells also
               | is part of the ADC ecosystem, but is restricted to only
               | those vendors.
               | 
               | Any other alarm.com gear is generally fair game as long
               | as it's been released from any account it's on from any
               | monitoring company.
        
           | azinman2 wrote:
           | I'm surprised this space isn't better disrupted. They all
           | aren't that great, even the new comers. Either they don't
           | have wide product coverage, only work with certain assistants
           | / apps, are ugly, terrible UX, etc.
           | 
           | As much as I don't think it's that great, Ring seems to be
           | the best of the bunch now.
        
             | phpisthebest wrote:
             | Security and more importantly Fire Alarm has ALOT more
             | regulations and liablity than just a simple Automation to
             | turn on the lights...
             | 
             | That is why you do not see as much activity in Security or
             | Fire Alarms as you to other Home Automation, and most
             | likely why Google went with ADT instead of rolling their
             | own with Nest... Someone in legal look at that and said
             | "Yea lets let ADT lawyers deal with that"
        
             | jonathankoren wrote:
             | It's a good enough product with recurring subscription
             | revenue. There's zero reason to innovate. Everything is a
             | cost, and it's unclear that customers actually want
             | "better".
        
         | j45 wrote:
         | It's wise to closely review and avoid the marketing of
         | companies selling old infrastructure repackaged as new.
         | Security companies are looking for new lines of revenue.
         | 
         | Telcos, and cable companies will often private label existing
         | solutions that are made for enterprise (B2E) and not really
         | meant for B2C as well, let alone B2B (small business)
         | 
         | You would be better off finding something like Home Assistant
         | and stumbling through connecting something together.
        
         | jimbobimbo wrote:
         | The best part of ADT is when the sales guy spends an hour face-
         | to-face with you and you learn about 3-year commitment next
         | day, from the installer guy, who (wisely) asks whether you are
         | aware of 3-year commitment before wiring anything.
        
         | LeoPanthera wrote:
         | It's not just ADT. We finally managed to escape from a contract
         | with Brinks, after Brinks bought our previous provider,
         | Livewatch, a few years ago.
         | 
         | It was hell, and in the end they made us sign a bunch of shit
         | via docusign (!), and even then you're forced to pay for 30
         | days more service while they bombard you with scaremails.
         | 
         | Never again.
        
           | kotaKat wrote:
           | ADT, Brinks, and Vivint are the three shitty horsemen of the
           | home security industry.
        
             | phpisthebest wrote:
             | Surely there has to be a forth company....
        
               | louky wrote:
               | Simplysafe. At least their you can't disable their
               | current generation of alarms with a $3 transmitter.
               | Criminally negligent but oh well.
        
         | ubermonkey wrote:
         | Wow, sounds like they've gotten pretty shitty.
         | 
         | I've been using ADT for 26 years, and in my current home for
         | 23. I have had no issues with them, and have found them
         | responsive when alarms happen or equipment needed to be
         | replaced.
         | 
         | OTOH, some pals have a Simplisafe setup and it's been a darkly
         | hilarious saga of nonfunctional sensors, false alarms, and
         | ongoing chicanery.
        
       | kccqzy wrote:
       | Considering that Dropcam came out in 2012, (and the Pro version
       | in 2013) I think this is actually good enough. We don't expect
       | IoT devices from other brands to be working forever either. Not
       | even Apple supports their devices for that long. Google just gets
       | a lot of hate on HN but this isn't anything deserving that much
       | hate.
       | 
       | The article kind of made the same point:
       | 
       | > Google previously committed to supporting Nest products for at
       | least five years, and it did meet that standard. If you've been
       | holding onto a Dropcam for more than a decade, it's hard to argue
       | that you didn't get your money's worth
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | Stuff that is integrated into your house needs to last more
         | than 5 years.
         | 
         | Hell, standard warranties on new homes are 10 years, and I'd
         | wager if a developer built a bunch of houses that stopped
         | working after ten years and a day, they'd lose badly in court.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | The 10 year warranty is only for structural stuff (or the
           | "bones") I believe, not for things like
           | doors/windows/finishes/fixtures/etc. In a cheaply tract built
           | house, that stuff will wear out within 5 years.
        
         | crooked-v wrote:
         | The objection isn't that they're dropping support for specific
         | older devices... it's that they're dropping support for the
         | entire platform, including Nest cameras that are still on sale
         | _right now_.
        
         | greycol wrote:
         | The major issue is we know the minimal least effort steps
         | involved to keep these things working aren't hard.
         | 
         | Release a firmware update that updates the device to only point
         | to ips/domains in the private range as it's new
         | control/update/whatever server and update any security certs to
         | a new releasable one.
         | 
         | Then open source the server software if not still in use, or
         | roll back the firmware the x number of years to the point were
         | the requirements to maintain the device started diverging and
         | release that version of the updated old firmware/old server
         | source.
         | 
         | There's no ongoing cost to the company and people can continue
         | to use their devices if they wish to put in the effort to
         | maintain it. I mean I'm not up in arms about this case, but
         | it's such a common story about how device/software is no longer
         | usable because finance wants to turn off a server that it
         | should be SOP in every sunset plan. I'd go so far as saying it
         | should be regulated as the minimum.
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | Does anyone know of the devices will work even locally? That
       | would provide some value, though of course most of the value is
       | in remote notifications and status availability.
       | 
       | Separately, is there any chance that folks here might be able to
       | come up with something like Rebble to give these devices life
       | into the future? I have a lot of sensors and hate to think this
       | will go completely to waste!
       | 
       | UPDATE: If these will still run locally (like they can now when
       | my wifi is down), then I'd probably buy a HomePod Mini and train
       | it on the Nest's alarm sound for use with the Sound Detection
       | feature. [1] I first heard of this feature at an Apple
       | presentation at the CSUN Assistive Technology conference and
       | thought it sounded really useful.
       | 
       | Although it wouldn't let me know what door/window was opened, it
       | would at least send an alert to my phone so that I would know to
       | look into things further.
       | 
       | 1: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/01/18/homepod-sound-
       | recogniti...
        
       | tracker1 wrote:
       | They likely won't... but would really appreciate if, when
       | hardware vendors EOL their products they'd release schema
       | diagrams and protocol documentation. There's no reason you
       | shouldn't get at _LEAST_ a decade out of these. It 's the main
       | thing that has kept me from any kind of "smart home" integration
       | at all.
       | 
       | I wound up going with a security package from my cable company
       | (kind of crappy cameras, tbh), but I'm not thinking in terms of
       | ownership at this level. In the end, it's just disappointing in
       | general how much churn there is in the tech space.
       | 
       | Similarly, I'm not going to buy a fridge, or washing machine with
       | a built in tablet, when they stop receiving updates in under a
       | year usually. It's just really crappy as a race to the bottom.
       | Either start with a rental/subscription model, or be prepared to
       | maintain the product for a decade. Homes and cars aren't churned
       | like phones.
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | Yep, Rebble kept my Pebble running for many years after the
         | company was bought. I finally gave up on it because the battery
         | life got so short, and I don't trust myself to repair it
         | decently. I loved that thing, and I'm so glad it was able to
         | live beyond the acquisition of the company!
         | 
         | Hopefully someone can figure out a way to do something similar
         | for these devices.
        
       | cptcobalt wrote:
       | Another day, another google death https://killedbygoogle.com/
       | 
       | With this track record I never plan on using a new google
       | product. Now, I will immediately stop using or sell anything I
       | have that is acquired by google. It seems like they're only
       | capable of leaving a trail of corpses of past good ideas.
        
         | rodgerd wrote:
         | Don't buy a GM car, then.
        
         | ubermonkey wrote:
         | I heard this news and was all set to be annoyed, since I have a
         | Dropcam we set up when we're away from the house for longer
         | trips, but then I checked my records and realized I've had it
         | for 9 years, & of course they're only sunsetting it NEXT year.
         | 
         | Ten years is okay.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | >I will immediately stop using or sell anything I have that is
         | acquired by google.
         | 
         | This is the crux though. You could be totally satisfied with a
         | non-Googly product, but suddenly become a Googly user when
         | Googs buys the successful company. I feel this way about Amazon
         | buying the Roomba company.
        
         | Takennickname wrote:
         | These aren't even good ideas. They're acquisitions. They could
         | have been totally fine, profitable companies on their own.
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | > They could have been totally fine, profitable companies on
           | their own.
           | 
           | Very, very unlikely. The business model was an illusion.
        
         | codemac wrote:
         | They haven't released a Dropcam in 8 years? "Nest Secure" was
         | cancelled in 2020.. and now they're saying "hey, we'll actually
         | turn things off in 2024"
         | 
         | I think the reason killedbygoogle.com actually exists is
         | because they try to be professional about notifying folks of
         | things they are EoL, and communicate updates along the way.
        
         | GalenErso wrote:
         | Until the prophecy is fulfilled and Google voluntarily shuts
         | itself down, in the ultimate twist of irony.
        
       | rconti wrote:
       | > Now that it's dropping Dropcam and Nest Secure, the Nest
       | Protect smart smoke alarms are the only Nest App-only devices
       | left
       | 
       | Wait, what does this mean? Does this mean my Nest thermostat
       | has... another app I can use? I mean, the Nest app is a dumpster
       | fire of deferred features. The only reason I know it's been
       | touched in the past 9 years is because the app was updated to
       | work full-screen on the iPhone X.
        
         | warp wrote:
         | Presumably the Google Home app? That's where they moved the
         | Google Wifi stuff too before they stopped updating the
         | dedicated Google Wifi app.
        
         | rconti wrote:
         | To reply to myself, this is some fantastic word soup, but it
         | looks like I can use the Google app? Or the Home app? Possibly
         | they're different things? It'll be fascinating to see if I can
         | do fancy modern high tech thermostat things like... override a
         | schedule.
         | 
         | >Once you add your Google Nest thermostat to the Home or Nest
         | app, you can easily control it even when you're not at home.
         | 
         | > The Nest Thermostat can only be controlled with the Home app.
         | 
         | > You can control the Nest Learning Thermostat and Nest
         | Thermostat E with the Home app after you migrate your Nest
         | Account to a Google Account.
         | 
         | > The Nest app also offers full control and settings for the
         | Nest Learning Thermostat and Nest Thermostat E.
        
           | enjo wrote:
           | It's the Google Home app. Hopefully they'll invest in the
           | interface quite a bit over the coming year but it does a good
           | job of managing all of the devices in my home right now. So
           | this isn't a huge issue. The weird problem of having both the
           | Nest app and Google Home has always been really weird.
        
             | rconti wrote:
             | It looks like you have to migrate your Nest to the Google
             | Home app in order to control schedules in Google Home. (As
             | it is now, I can change the _current_ temp as a one-off, or
             | do voice control, but I can 't change schedules).
             | 
             | Unfortunately, it sounds like the scheduling is just as
             | simplistic and featureless as the scheduling in the native
             | Nest app. (Eg, manually set up each day, with basic
             | copy+paste functionality (probably), no overrides, no
             | ability to do anything different from week to week). So, I
             | probably won't risk the migration.
        
       | bdcravens wrote:
       | When I was weighing Ring vs Nest security systems, I'm glad I
       | went with Ring.
        
       | diogenescynic wrote:
       | Well this stinks. Guess I will think twice about ever giving
       | money to Google again. The run has been pulled out from under me
       | by Google enough times to consider them worth avoiding.
        
       | zmk5 wrote:
       | With the news that they are shutting down the Google assistant
       | smart displays, the best thing you can do now is just not have
       | smart devices like these in your house or just use Home
       | assistant. They're just waiting to go to the landfill.
        
         | tracker1 wrote:
         | Yeah... as much as I wouldn't mind doing more "smart home"
         | stuff, I absolutely won't as I don't trust anything to be
         | supported for a decade or more, which is where I consider home
         | stuff should be.
        
         | minhazm wrote:
         | They're cutting off software updates for third party displays.
         | Their own displays will continue to be supported... for now.
        
           | rio517 wrote:
           | Imagine being one of the companies impacted by this. It
           | becomes a lesson in not partnering with Google.
        
       | philprx wrote:
       | "Google, the finest place where startups and products go to die"
       | ;-)
        
         | geodel wrote:
         | Earth, the finest place where all living things born to die.
        
         | kamray23 wrote:
         | Honestly, how many surviving Google products were developed at
         | Google instead of outside it and then got absorbed by it at
         | some point? They keep absorbing working startups and often
         | killing their products to work on new products, only for those
         | products to always be incredibly niche and never survive more
         | than half a decade or so. Basically only the actual business-
         | oriented ones, with anything consumer-facing shutting down
         | fairly quickly.
         | 
         | God, G+ was bad though.
        
           | nvy wrote:
           | G+ had a good idea at its core, though. Facebook lost its
           | appeal for 24-year-old me as soon as all my random aunts and
           | uncles were on there posting boomer memes and commenting on
           | photos of me at a kegger, or whatever dumb stuff I was
           | getting photographed doing back then.
           | 
           | The "Circles" feature was a nice way to address that in
           | theory, but the execution was really half-baked and the
           | network effect didn't help them.
        
             | tracker1 wrote:
             | Yeah, I actually really liked G+... it was a nicer
             | experience for technical follows, etc. Twitter is a
             | firehose and you can only effectively sample a little of
             | it. Facebook is just a mess, I think the groups feature is
             | somewhat nice, but other than that, it's chaotic. They're
             | all trying to compete in wierd ways and making them all
             | less useful.
             | 
             | Mastadon seems interresting, but frankly I'd rather go back
             | to IRC, and see some useful extensions to /whois details
             | for better interconnectivity and profiles, but not so
             | closed and walled garden as slack. Aside, I do still use
             | irc for programming and bbs related stuff.
        
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