[HN Gopher] Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers
___________________________________________________________________
Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers
Author : j4nek
Score : 457 points
Date : 2023-04-12 14:17 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.hetzner.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.hetzner.com)
| ericls wrote:
| Hope they'll roll out the dedicated-cores plans for these.
| syntaxing wrote:
| Wow those are some tempting specs. 4 Euros for 2 core CPU, 4GB of
| RAM, 40Gb storage, and 20TB of traffic. I always had issues with
| those $5 droplets with the RAM being abysmally low. Closest
| comparable equivalent is $18-$24 on DO.
| vrglvrglvrgl wrote:
| [dead]
| betimsl wrote:
| Why? What is the advantage of running arm over x86 on servers?
| drcongo wrote:
| Amazing news. Your move Digital Ocean.
| g42gregory wrote:
| With the energy prices in Europe being what they are (and
| systemically higher than in North America and especially in
| Asia), will Hetzner be able to provide low prices that they
| currently have?
| werid wrote:
| they increased prices a bit some months ago.
| Havoc wrote:
| More benchmarking. Some of the speedtests coming back >10gigs is
| a bit of a surprise given price point
|
| https://hastebin.com/share/biyejiriyi.bash
|
| https://hastebin.com/share/unocorikef.bash
|
| https://hastebin.com/share/ujixoxazit.bash
|
| https://hastebin.com/share/ofezuyodob.bash
| r1ch wrote:
| This probably won't last, the servers aren't fully loaded with
| VMs yet.
| Kaibu wrote:
| I regularly get 3-5gbit on their regular cloud servers to
| consumer ISPs. They definitly don't overbook their vms
| regarding bandwith.
| Jamie9912 wrote:
| For comparison, here's an AWS a1.large instance (2cpus, 4GB
| ram) YABS benchmark I just ran
|
| https://gist.githubusercontent.com/12932/8ba27254846072a43b0...
| Havoc wrote:
| Jikes. Why is the hdd read so bad? 6 MB/s. Six?
| BackBlast wrote:
| 4k block size, it's IOPS limited. No surprise there.
| banana_giraffe wrote:
| It's gated by the default IOPS limits, you'll note the
| larger block sizes have a considerably better throughput.
|
| You can increase the IOPS, and thus the throughput for 4k
| operations, but at a cost, of course:
|
| https://gist.githubusercontent.com/Q726kbXuN/7f03a9c11cab51
| 4...
| johndough wrote:
| Huh, odd. I opened the URLs twice and got temporarily banned by
| hastebin. Thank you for the benchmark though. Very nice
| numbers.
| eis wrote:
| Great news. I'd like to see how a vCPU compares between arm64 and
| amd64 but not sure how to best go about it. I've created VMs for
| both with 4 vCPU and will run the phoronix benchmark suite. After
| that I'll probably try 16 arm vs 8 amd vCPU because that's a
| closer match in terms of price. Any suggestions welcome but I
| also don't want to spend too many hours on it. Will post results.
|
| Ran the kernel build benchmark (result is seconds, lower is
| better): AMD64: 272.916
| 273.128 270.477 ARM64: 1011.799
| 1004.713 1015.261
|
| So the ARM CAX21 instance for 6.49 EUR/month took roughly 3.7x as
| long as the AMD CPX31 instance which costs 13.60 EUR/month. A
| roughly 2.1x price difference. Here the ARM instance did not
| shine in a kernel-compile-per-eur metric.
|
| Also ran sysbench cpu --time=60 --threads=4 run
| AMD64: events per second: 14681.70 ARM64: events per
| second: 13455.11
|
| In this test the both are very close.
| eis wrote:
| Additional benchmarks:
|
| sysbench memory --time=60 --threads=4 run
| AMD64: 5859951.00 per second ARM64: 6052749.14 per
| second
|
| Here ARM had a lead.
|
| Next up I timed compiling nodejs. time make -j4. I ran the test
| two times and took the faster result for each.
| AMD64: real 28m46.385s user
| 107m48.971s sys 5m12.994s ARM64:
| real 39m18.443s user 146m25.801s sys
| 7m53.271s
|
| Here ARM seems to be roughly 36% slower. This is actually
| pretty good considering the price difference.
|
| Rescaled the ARM VM to 8 vCPUs: real
| 22m20.624s user 162m30.176s sys
| 8m50.104s
|
| So now the ARM offering is noticably faster than the AMD
| instance but still cheaper. 12.49 Eur vs 13.60 Eur.
|
| What I learn from these benchmarks is that you might get some
| really good value out of these ARM instances if your usecase is
| not impacted all too much in terms of performance.
| bombcar wrote:
| The main problem I'd think is that by being "virtual" you never
| really quite _know_ if you 're seeing how it would run in "real
| life".
|
| Personally, if I were to do it, _and_ I had some sort of load-
| balanced application that uses multiple backends
| /frontends/whatever, is balance across the two and compare over
| time.
|
| And to be 'fair' you'd want to compare similar pricing.
|
| Or if you had a consistent group maybe try a Minecraft server
| and move it between the two every week and see what people
| "feel"?
| DeathArrow wrote:
| >I'd like to see how a vCPU compares between arm64 and amd64
|
| That depends on how many vCPUs are they running on each
| physical core for both x86 and ARM.
| eis wrote:
| Yes and we might never know or maybe it's not even static.
|
| This will never be 100% scientific or correct since there are
| many factors that come into play, stuff like noisy neighbour
| for example.
|
| What I'm trying to get is a ballpark idea of how their arm
| vCPU compares to the amd equivalent.
| solalf wrote:
| Could somebody walk me through why ARM based servers are so
| inexpensive compared to their x86 counterparts? Is performance
| much lower? 16 cores & 32gb of RAM for less than 25 euros seems
| like a bargain.
| Symmetry wrote:
| ARM's N-series cores are targeted at a somewhat lower
| performance point than top line x86 cores. That saves a bunch
| of transistors since there's a lot of diminishing returns.
| There's also design compromises not being made in order to hit
| clock speeds that server parts never try to hit anyways. Not
| having to decode complicated x86 instructions but simple RISC
| ones is also a small advantage, somewhere on the order of 5%
| power savings.
|
| Also, x86 backwards compatibility and SMT don't cost much in
| terms of power or transistors but both have large costs in of
| verification work.
| mnau wrote:
| Maybe competition? x86 has only 2 competitors left. ARM has
| more diverse ecosystem of competitors and the environments ha
| been different.
|
| ARM design had to be adjusted/developed for a cell phones often
| cost 10% of a normal computers (main use of x86). I can buy a
| cell phone a display, battery, memory and ARM cpu for $100
| total (no idea how much ARM chip alone cost). The phone will
| have a semi-acceptable performance.
|
| Even cheapest x86 CPU with emi acceptable performance probably
| cost more than $100 and cheapest x86 cpu more than $50.
| solarkraft wrote:
| But the makers of the CPUs are still server focused. Then
| again it's a lot easier to become one with ARM.
| stonemetal12 wrote:
| Ampere is the only game in town for buying a server ARM chip.
| It isn't like anyone is rack mounting Samsung Galaxies, so
| the variety of manufactures working in other spaces doesn't
| really matter.
|
| Nvidia claims to be working on getting in the server game
| later this year so maybe ARM will get to x86 levels of
| competition.
| re-thc wrote:
| Demand and supply. Even if they did offer equal performance
| most of your docker images and other binaries may need to be
| rebuilt. The inertia is hard to beat.
|
| AWS has been trying really hard with Graviton 3.
| xenic wrote:
| Base docker images, such as Ubuntu have support for multiple
| architectures.
|
| Building your own based on them isn't really difficult at
| all; docker buildx works remarkably well and build tools such
| as maven, sbt, etc. seem to have rather decent support for
| building multiarch images.
|
| Even better if you have decent build automation, implement
| cross building for amd64 and arm64 once and just make sure
| your FROM images support those.
| section_me wrote:
| Possibly off topic,
|
| I actually registered the org oci-base
| (https://github.com/oci-base), when Docker Inc. announced
| the registry fees.
|
| In part as I've been annoyed with multiarch and
| docker/registry in the past.
|
| Then to top it off the official registry has/is taking ages
| to support signing/attestation.
|
| Plan is for it to be contributor driven, and RFC style
| requirements following best practices.
|
| Not had much time to work on it lately, kids, Easter, etc.
| re-thc wrote:
| A lot of things are usually not difficult in the absolute
| sense.
|
| It's not just the building of it but the
| testing/verification of what's built.
|
| 1 major problem with a lot of use cases is there isn't
| enough test coverage and hence confidence in the change.
| Some people / companies find it easier to just pay the
| difference.
| RockyMcNuts wrote:
| in other words less competition, more market power tax
| sltkr wrote:
| I would guess simpler CPU core architecture means more cores
| per die. Presumably it also means lower performance, but
| perhaps not by as much as you think, since typically the most
| performant CPUs aren't the most cost-effective.
|
| Quick Googling shows: - Intel W9-3495X has 56
| cores for $5889 - AMD EPYC 64 has 64 cores for $4299
| - Ampera Altra M128-30 has 128 cores for $5800
|
| The Altra uses about the same power as AMD, and much less than
| Intel, despite offering twice as many cores. So it stands to
| reason that you just get twice as many cores for the same
| money, even if you factor in power, cooling and maintenance
| costs.
|
| Hetzer offers a 16 core AMD (v)CPU machine at 225% of the
| price, so that roughly works out.
| nidnogg wrote:
| Here's hoping it's not just an early adopter promo
| re-thc wrote:
| Hetzner has always had low prices. Should be good.
| jeffbee wrote:
| That's exactly what it is.
| elorant wrote:
| Low demand
| sleepychu wrote:
| Perhaps operating costs? --
| https://www.redhat.com/en/topics/linux/ARM-vs-x86#arm-vs-x86...
| ojosilva wrote:
| Firstly ARM processors are simpler to produce, with simpler
| circuitry (RISC!), although the number of transistors tend to
| be similar between the two platforms.
|
| Research costs are also very expensive for x86, with 2 vendors
| (Intel and AMD) competing savagely in many different markets
| such as high-end gaming, servers, ultrabooks and low cost PCs.
| However, ARM (the company) focuses on licensing the designs and
| instruction sets. So their research costs are split among many
| licensees while ARM focused on what it does best: designing
| chips.
|
| That in turn translates into many vendors who can focus on
| improving manufacturing efficiency, procurement, logistics and
| sales. x86 vendors have a wild range of manufacturing lines to
| keep up.
|
| Finally, the laws of supply and demand play a huge part. The
| ARM market is _2 orders of magnitude_ (!!) greater than x86 as
| far as raw number of processors shipped, ~370M vs ~32B chips in
| 2022.
| cellularmitosis wrote:
| > simpler circuitry
|
| > the number of transistors tend to be similar between the
| two platforms
|
| sorry, come again?
| ojosilva wrote:
| x86 has more pathways (interconnects), x86 implements a
| "mesh" design, which is a low-latency, high-power
| configuration of pathways. ARM uses a neat hierarchical
| design that favors low-power consumption.
|
| So, given a x86 and an ARM chip with the same number of
| transistors, the ARM one will still be a simpler, low-power
| chip with probably a higher number of cores.
| cellularmitosis wrote:
| ah thanks! I hadn't considered the core count difference.
| DeathArrow wrote:
| >16 cores & 32gb of RAM for less than 25 euros seems like a
| bargain.
|
| 16 cores doesn't say much. It depends how many DMIPS those
| cores will yield.
| zamalek wrote:
| Power delivery and cooling are not cheap at datacenter levels.
| nr2x wrote:
| With the added environment benefits!
| andix wrote:
| Power is especially expensive in Europe right now. The war in
| Ukraine caused price increases between 300% and 1000%
| qwytw wrote:
| Is that still the case? The prices seem to have peaked
| around August and are now back to their pre war levels.
| Before that prices have already been steadily rising since
| September, 2021 though.
|
| e.g. average price in August was over 400% higher than this
| March
|
| https://www.nordpoolgroup.com/en/Market-
| data1/Dayahead/Area-...
| andix wrote:
| I think wholesale prices for electricity in Germany are
| still around 3x compared to before the pandemic, and
| around 4-5x compared to 2020.
|
| The big peak (up to 10x) is over, but the energy prices
| already increased a lot in autumn of 2021, when Russia
| first reduced the gas deliveries.
| aendruk wrote:
| I've never paid much attention to Hetzner but this interested me.
| Upon clicking the call to action in the announcement they blocked
| me with "Request on Hold - Suspicous Activity Detected".
|
| I have no interest in subjecting myself to this treatment.
| fckgw wrote:
| Do you get this indigent over every error message you see?
| MuffinFlavored wrote:
| it's almost like VPS hosting services have to be careful due
| to rampant fraud or something
| grrdotcloud wrote:
| There's a level of friction that is too much for some.
|
| I'm attempting to soften that friction when I launch my
| PaaS
|
| My concern over bots and misuse is a concern. I'm thinking
| of crippling the free service to allow full functionality
| but limiting it's use to really tiny files.
| linsomniac wrote:
| And it's ALWAYS been that way. A very long time ago I
| implemented a VPS hosting. How long ago? It was implemented
| using User Mode Linux. I want to say it was 2003. We had
| most of our success in a specific geographic region, and
| also within the Python community. We originally had
| automated sign-up, but found that if we got a signup from
| someone who's name we didn't recognize, it was basically
| guaranteed to be fraud.
|
| In the early days it was slightly amusing to get calls from
| older folks trying to understand what a virtual server was.
| sgtfrankieboy wrote:
| It's literally just an alternative to Cloudflares attack
| protection.
| aendruk wrote:
| Okay, and responding to their ad is an "attack"?
| sgtfrankieboy wrote:
| It might be, it's to filter out would be attackers. Normal
| users are just hit as well.
| sunshadow wrote:
| [dead]
| jacob019 wrote:
| I hope Hetzner starts offering GPU instances like Vultr.
| eis wrote:
| Hetzner at some point used to offer dedicated servers with GPUs
| like a nVidia 1080 but stopped offering these because there was
| a lot of fraud and abuse involving crypto miners.
|
| With all the AI hype I'd assume they'll try to offer GPU
| instances again with precautions put in place.
| jacooper wrote:
| They are still available in the server auction section
| eis wrote:
| Yes but what a reader unfamiliar with the server auction at
| Hetzner should know is that there is very limited supply
| (and sometimes none) plus it's outdated hardware. At this
| very moment I see 9 servers with 1080 priced between 105
| and 118 euro per month available.
| lordnacho wrote:
| One of the chat support people told me that they were going to
| do that pretty soon. Haven't seen anything though.
| subsequentmask wrote:
| When was this? This one really interests me.
| lordnacho wrote:
| A couple of months ago. They seemed to suggest a launch was
| imminent, as in "wait around a couple of weeks, rent GPUs
| just like everything else". But I haven't seen it since, so
| kinda odd.
| pachico wrote:
| We are decommissioning all our dedicated servers at Hetzner. This
| is not because we didn't like that service but because we are
| concentrating our efforts in AWS.
|
| It's been a wonderful ride. It's cheap and reliable.
|
| I wish our team was big enough to afford having to deal with
| dedicated hardware.
| [deleted]
| andix wrote:
| Hetzner also has cloud servers and an API to provision them.
| There is even a terraform module for hetzner cloud. It works
| very well. But they don't provide any managed services, like
| databases or blob storage.
| pachico wrote:
| Yup, reason why we stay in AWS
| gnyman wrote:
| Scaleway and OVH are two other European companies who
| provide things like managed databases and blob storage, in
| addition to very competitively priced dedicated hardware
| and services.
|
| One thing I personally like with OVH is that they have
| fixed prices for things like bandwidth, not pay-per-GB like
| most others.
| derfabianpeter wrote:
| If that's the only reason, we offer managed databases of
| many flavors on hetzner. https://www.ayedo.de
| jayonsoftware wrote:
| Do they have servers in US ? Who would be the Hertzner equvelent
| in US when it comes to low cost dedicated hosting
| barryp wrote:
| Yes, the have datacenters in Virginia and Oregon - seems to
| just be AMD servers though (no Intel or ARM).
|
| Been using a couple VPSes in Oregon, pretty happy with them.
| oriettaxx wrote:
| yes, they do have now two Data Centers in the US
| https://www.hetzner.com/unternehmen/rechenzentrum/
|
| * Oregon
|
| * Virginia
| lopkeny12ko wrote:
| I don't understand the hype around ARM64 in the server space. Is
| this just due to all the marketing from Apple around their
| proprietary M processors leaking into the enterprise market?
|
| The latest Xeon and EPYC offerings are very performance
| competitive, I doubt we need to overhaul and entire processor ISA
| paradigm for continued improvements.
| nr2x wrote:
| For me at least, if I knew I was getting same performance for
| less energy I'd actually be willing to pay a bit more. Data
| centers are big polluters still. I think we likely can get to
| nearly 100% renewables in the non-distant future, and lower
| energy per compute unit is part of that.
| lelanthran wrote:
| > For me at least, if I knew I was getting same performance
| for less energy I'd actually be willing to pay a bit more.
|
| Well if they're spending less to power my ARM machine, then
| they should damn well be charging me less to host it.
|
| That's the best, and only, long term path towards more
| efficient compute.
| nr2x wrote:
| Interesting parallel is I have an electric car, which I pay
| more for and has limitations. But for me I think the
| societal benefit is great enough I'll eat the cost. So if
| it gets data centers to invest in energy savings because
| they pocket the difference I'm ok with it.
| ericpauley wrote:
| It's probably pretty rare (though maybe increasing) to have a
| workload that is ARM-only, so it really comes down to price
| performance. Amazon claims 40% better price/performance on
| Gravition2 vs. comparable x86. While it varies by workload, for
| scenarios where this plays out and the architecture isn't
| important (languages increasingly make multi-arch deployment
| easy) this (and S3 intelligent tiering) are the closest thing
| to free money I can think of.
| cbdumas wrote:
| > Is this just due to all the marketing from Apple around their
| proprietary M processors leaking into the enterprise market?
|
| That doesn't seem likely, as the release of AWS Graviton based
| instances predates the Apple M1 release by about two years
| daneel_w wrote:
| With Arm Graviton on AWS, for our specific environments and
| workloads, we get better performance for less money. Same goes
| for the hosts, who pay a smaller upfront investment per core
| and less in electricity per core. Bigger bang for the buck when
| the glove fits.
| watermelon0 wrote:
| Same here, generally 10-40% better performance, depending on
| workload, at 15%+ lower costs, on AWS.
|
| We have seen performance improvements in PHP, Java, and
| various CPU-bound tasks such as video transcoding.
|
| This goes for either EC2 m7g vs m6i and also for Fargate x64
| (from my experience, perfomance seems comparable to m5
| instances) vs ARM (Graviton2).
| stu2b50 wrote:
| The hype is because Intel and AMD have an enforced duopoly of
| x86, because only they own the licenses to x86-64 and you'll
| take it from their cold dead hands.
|
| So, if you want to compete, you'll have to go ARM. Amazon
| graviton and Apples M series have only made it more appealing.
|
| The main reason to switch is cost.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| They own the licenses to SSE3/SSE4/AVX. For now.
|
| Currently anyone can make an x86-64 processor.
| usr1106 wrote:
| The ARM server hype was 10 years ago. Every Linux distro
| wanted to be first, but then they all waited for the year of
| the ARM server.
|
| Nice to see that things seem to start moving a bit now.
| Energy consumption and cooling are major concerns for data
| centers. ARM is just so much better when it comes to energy
| consumption. So the potential should be there.
| pornel wrote:
| I use an M1 Mac, and I'd prefer to develop and deploy on the
| same CPU architecture. For M1 users the x86 is an alien cross-
| compilation target.
| junon wrote:
| It's really just a matter of time at this point. X86 is a
| bloated nightmare that is a pain to deal with and has a rich
| history of vulnerabilities where the patches typically affect
| performance.
| EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
| They also quietly removed their Apple M1 server option - anyone
| knows why? not reliable enough?
| cbg0 wrote:
| Did a quick comparison between intel 2 vCPU and Arm 2 vCPU, these
| are shared CPUs though so YMMV:
|
| sysbench cpu --threads=2 run
|
| Intel events per second: 1864.20
|
| Arm events per second: 6687.05
|
| Coremark
|
| Intel iterations/sec: 20077.633516
|
| Arm iterations/sec: 23625.767837
| jeffbee wrote:
| If you have access to them a much more informative datapoint
| would be `openssl speed rsa` or `lzbench`. Sysbench is just a
| stunt it doesn't indicate much at all.
| cbg0 wrote:
| Here's a lzbench
|
| dd if=/dev/urandom of=1GB.bin bs=64M count=16 iflag=fullblock
|
| Intel:
|
| Compressor Compress. Decompress. Compr. size Ratio Filename
|
| memcpy 5062 MB/s 5013 MB/s 1073741824 100.00 1GB.bin
|
| zstd 1.5.2 -2 2083 MB/s 4743 MB/s 1073766410 100.00 1GB.bin
|
| zstd 1.5.2 -5 210 MB/s 4775 MB/s 1073766410 100.00 1GB.bin
|
| zstd 1.5.2 -9 85.5 MB/s 4774 MB/s 1073766410 100.00 1GB.bin
|
| Arm:
|
| Compressor Compress. Decompress. Compr. size Ratio Filename
|
| memcpy 10876 MB/s 10950 MB/s 1073741824 100.00 1GB.bin
|
| zstd 1.5.2 -2 3175 MB/s 11168 MB/s 1073766410 100.00 1GB.bin
|
| zstd 1.5.2 -5 192 MB/s 10967 MB/s 1073766410 100.00 1GB.bin
|
| zstd 1.5.2 -9 146 MB/s 10909 MB/s 1073766410 100.00 1GB.bin
| jeffbee wrote:
| Nice. Showing off Neoverse's superior single-core
| load/store abilities.
| mkl wrote:
| Looks like the ARM one has twice the memory bandwidth,
| which would help with a lot of workloads.
| jeffbee wrote:
| It's more along the lines of having roughly the same
| total bandwidth but being able to exploit all of it from
| a single core, whereas on Intel you need to exercise all
| or at least several cores to drive the memory to the
| limits.
| karakanb wrote:
| it would be very helpful to have this benchmark for the same
| price-point instances as well. e.g. it seems like the 2vCPU +
| 4GB ARM instance is 4.52eur while the 1CPU + 2GB x86 instance
| is 4.51eur, therefore it would make sense to do a comparison
| on this level as well.
| hugoromano wrote:
| New Hetzner ARM: sign verify sign/s verify/s
|
| rsa 512 bits 0.000070s 0.000006s 14268.2 159885.6
|
| rsa 1024 bits 0.000405s 0.000021s 2468.4 47757.7
|
| rsa 2048 bits 0.002847s 0.000078s 351.3 12830.1
|
| Hetzner x86: sign verify sign/s verify/s
|
| rsa 512 bits 0.000067s 0.000004s 14893.9 240902.8
|
| rsa 1024 bits 0.000127s 0.000009s 7845.9 114300.9
|
| rsa 2048 bits 0.000874s 0.000027s 1144.6 36800.6
| daneel_w wrote:
| If it's of any value to anyone, perhaps as an indication of
| hardware/environment implementation, I get identical
| numbers (<1% difference) on Oracle's Ampere Altra servers
| with OpenSSL 1.1.1n on Debian 11.
| my123 wrote:
| Due to a peculiar design issue, Neoverse N1 underperforms
| when using RSA. It doesn't affect other use cases and is
| fixed on newer Arm cores.
| daneel_w wrote:
| Sysbench is a better synthetic test in my opinion because it
| does a lot of varied grinding instead of trying to evaluate
| the entire CPU using just one very narrow and specific task.
| Even on the same Linux distribution there can be a lot of
| differences between x86 and Arm builds because OpenSSL cannot
| be entirely orthogonal in its use of assembly optimizations
| and CPU crypto acceleration, even for the RSA benchmark.
|
| To offer a somewhat more varied example I've tested the POV-
| Ray benchmarker on Debian 11 on Oracle's Ampere Altra servers
| ("A1.Flex") versus an identical setup/build running on a 2
| GHz EPYC 7281-based x86-64 VPS, and on that single-threaded
| test the Arm VPS handily outpaced the EPYC with almost 2x the
| performance.
| jeffbee wrote:
| `sysbench cpu` basically measures whether a single
| primitive inside sysbench is correctly optimized for your
| platform which is almost meaningless. Its run-to-run
| variation is enormous because there is a lot riding on
| whether particular data structure is optimally placed and
| aligned, which sysbench makes no effort to control. On a
| typical hyperthreaded x86 machine you will get 100%
| variance or worse depending on whether sysbench's 2 threads
| are placed on the same core or on different cores, so you
| must control that with `taskset` if you want the result to
| mean anything.
|
| On my local machine with 4 threads I get ~10k events per
| second on cores 0+2+4+6, but on cores 8-11 I get ~13k. Does
| this mean that Gracemont Atom is 30% faster than Golden
| Cove Core? No, it is only measuring the fact that the
| efficiency cores happen to share an L2 cache.
| 8organicbits wrote:
| Isn't that just measuring hardware support for RSA? Are many
| systems bottlenecked on RSA perf?
| candiddevmike wrote:
| Eagerly awaiting these in Ashburn! Almost double the CPU/RAM in
| most cases for the same price.
| trollied wrote:
| 2*vCPU, 4GB RAM, 40GB disk and 20TB traffic for EUR4.52/month is
| a steal. EUR3.92/month if you go ipv6 only.
| brucethemoose2 wrote:
| Theres a perception that the ARM Altra per-thread performance is
| really bad.
|
| But according to my Minecraft benchmarks in Oracle's instances,
| its better than old Skylake cloud instances... by how much is
| hard to say since other tenants generate so much variation, but
| there are proper reviews of the whole SoC floating around out
| there.
| i386 wrote:
| Minecraft is inherently single threaded. the success of running
| big servers is to run it on the fastest single core processor
| money can buy.
| brucethemoose2 wrote:
| This wisdom is a bit outdated, especially on heavily modded
| servers.
|
| Minecraft is _limited_ by a single thread, but some stuff
| does run on other threads. In addition the JDK will do
| compilation and GC on other threads now, which is especially
| apparent if you run GraalVM like you should.
|
| Minecraft wont scale to 16 cores. But if you buy a 2C/4T
| instance, you are going to get less performance than you
| would get on a wider one.
| i386 wrote:
| > Minecraft is limited by a single thread, but some stuff
| does run on other threads
|
| Hmm, not so outdated. if you're talking about JVM gc then
| sure but pretty much everything is built around a single
| thread ticking the mod. I know some mods can do chunk
| pregen on another thread but those are rarely used.
| re-thc wrote:
| Old Skylake cloud instances is "really bad" in the current day
| compared to Rome/Milan/Genoa, Sapphire Rapids and Graviton 3
| for example.
|
| We've moved on from lakes!
| loeg wrote:
| Cooper Lake (2020) is still a Skylake. They aren't that old!
| re-thc wrote:
| The 1 that was mostly canned?
|
| See: https://www.anandtech.com/show/15631/intels-cooper-
| lake-plan...
|
| It's limited everywhere.
| loeg wrote:
| > The company is set to only make the hardware available
| for priority scale-out customers who have already
| designed quad-socket and eight-socket platforms around
| the hardware.
|
| I work at one of those customers; we use loads of them.
|
| Nevermind Ice Lake / Alder Lake (2021) / Raptor Lake
| (2022) -- Intel hasn't abandoned the "Lake" naming scheme
| yet.
| mardifoufs wrote:
| Facebook?
| brucethemoose2 wrote:
| To be fair Ampere Altra is old now too. Kinda a contemporary
| with Ice Lake and the tail end of Skylake.
|
| Hetzner offering them _right now_ is curious. Maybe its a
| pipecleaner for the next Ampere gen?
| wmf wrote:
| The new Altra developer kit is also very cheap. I wonder if
| Ampere is dumping overstocked inventory. Given their track
| record I don't expect the One to be available any time
| soon.
| re-thc wrote:
| Does Ampere have a newer offering yet? Probably not? So
| Hetzner are offering the "current gen".
|
| Meanwhile AMD and Intel both do have a later offering so
| they are "old".
| brucethemoose2 wrote:
| Also, by "Skylake" I mean whatever the last popular server
| CPU with the Skylake derived core was... IIRC Cooper Lake was
| Facebook only, Cascade Lake was HPC, and I cant even remember
| beyond that, but they've had the same 28C server die forever
| that hosts everywhere use.
| DefineOutside wrote:
| I've done a bit of minecraft benchmarking on my Oracle
| instance. It generates the same number of chunks per second as
| my 3600x CPU - although minecraft is always a weird benchmark
| in that benefits from low memory latency and large caches as it
| is ineffective at using caches well but is memory bound.
| brucethemoose2 wrote:
| Its even more lopsided when modded to the teeth.
| BackBlast wrote:
| I've benchmarked ARM systems vs other processors.
|
| On my workload, using Intel as a baseline. AMD under performs
| relative to standard benchmarks. ARM over performs relative to
| standard benchmarks. I have seen good performance from Ampere,
| particularly for the price.
|
| However, ARM architecture complicates my workflow
| significantly. I've found that they are not worth using it
| right now due to compatibility issues, easier to just stick
| with x86 for most things. Dealing with required missing
| packages just kills the value.
|
| My system isn't generally compute limited anyway. IOPS and
| egress dominate rather than MIPS.
| kytazo wrote:
| Try alpinelinux, you'll be able to find almost everything,
| coupled with nix for just in case. I've yet to find any
| package missing.
| NegativeLatency wrote:
| alpine brings it's own issues with the different libc
|
| maybe things have been fixed now, but about a year ago I
| was having issues with ruby bugs that were due to
| differences between muslc and gnulibc
| BackBlast wrote:
| Introducing new distros to solve the problem is moving in
| the wrong direction. It's so much easier to deal with one
| distro in the cloud. Just more reasons not to go multi
| uArch.
| brucethemoose2 wrote:
| ARM cloud hosts typically run distros with good ARM
| support. Oracle Linux is actually quite good, kinda like
| a pre optimized RHEL.
|
| Which begs the question: what is Hetzner pushing on
| these? SUSE maybe?
| asmor wrote:
| By default: Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora, CentOS, Rocky and
| Alma.
|
| You can mount your own ISOs though.
| BackBlast wrote:
| To the downvoter...
|
| I strive for simple infrastructure.
|
| ARM doesn't support the x86 docker eco system. That's a
| significant strike but not totally unworkable for me.
|
| My primary database isn't prepackaged with the ARM
| packages nor does the originating org build one. I could
| build it myself, which I have done plenty over the years.
| I did try it, but the dependencies aren't up to date on
| ARM. So now I'm building dependencies and the software
| package. Building software from scratch can be a rabbit
| hole that eats untold amount of time. After a one-day
| effort I gave up and abandoned it. I'll revisit again if
| Hetzner brings Ampere to the US and I can verify the
| instances have much higher IOPS ceilings.
|
| Enter another distro and I have to rebuild all of my
| provisioning and management scripts for all my services
| with all the testing entailed in the new dependency
| chains. I'd rather try to build my db from source again,
| frankly.
| piperswe wrote:
| I'm curious what distro you're using where there are missing
| packages. I've never run across missing distro packages on
| arm64 Debian (which I regularly use at work).
| nine_k wrote:
| Have you faced issues with packages being too old on Debian
| Stable though?
|
| "Missing packages" may be packages missing important
| features or bugfixes.
| brucethemoose2 wrote:
| I certainly have...
|
| Arch and SUSE are ARM friendly though.
| nine_k wrote:
| Isn't running Arch in prod considered brave still? Or has
| it become stable and predictable in the last few years I
| did not watch it?
| thejosh wrote:
| We're getting pretty good performance on AWS Graviton3 for our
| data processing, their m7g is pretty good. Looks like they're
| banking on ARM taking off, with lots of new options in 2023.
| okasaki wrote:
| Those aren't the prices I'm seeing when I try to create a new
| server. I'm getting: CAX11 - 3.95eur/m
| CAX21 - 7.19/m CAX31 - 14.39/m CAX41 - 28.79/m
|
| 1 ipv6 costs me 0.6/m
| subsequentmask wrote:
| These are the prices w/o IPv4 added aren't they.
| miyuru wrote:
| I think you meant to say IPv4. IPv6 is free.
| detaro wrote:
| presumably that's prices with the appropriate-to-your-location
| VAT applied?
| Galaco wrote:
| Never figured out how to use Hertzner. Wanted to try since they
| get such a good reputation on here, but they banned my account
| when their system presented no way for me to verify my identity.
|
| The required either PayPal or passport. I have no PayPal account,
| and their 3rd party verification system only allows passport from
| your country of residence (signup requires providing a contact
| address and they pre fill using this address; you can't change
| the passport country). I am a British citizen living in Japan,
| and therefore hold a British passport; there was no way for me to
| provide a Japanese passport. I asked what I should do to comply,
| and they banned my account 6 hours later.
|
| I can't be the only one to experience this, can I?
| thatwasunusual wrote:
| > Never figured out how to use Hertzner. Wanted to try since
| they get such a good reputation on here, but they banned my
| account when their system presented no way for me to verify my
| identity.
|
| Is this something new? I (Norwegian) have been using Hetzner
| for 10+ years, and never had a problem, and never had to attest
| my identity. CurrentlyI have a four servers running there. The
| last one was set up approx. a year ago, IIRC.
| Havoc wrote:
| >I (Norwegian)
|
| That may be the difference. Some nationalities get KYC'd
| easier than others and they seem to take it very seriously
| kldx wrote:
| +1 anecdatum
| rejectfinite wrote:
| There is a reason :)
| vidarh wrote:
| Norwegian living in the UK, and have used Hetzner for years,
| both via a personal account and more recently via a corporate
| account (UK company, Norwegian citizen), and it's not been an
| issue. For one of the other corporate accounts I used it for
| the managing director at the time (UK company, UK citizen)
| did have to provide ID, though. Not clear exactly which
| criteria has been in place when and for whom.
| jsnell wrote:
| It's definitely not new, they required an id 20 years ago.
| (From EU citizens, so it's not about the country either).
| dividedbyzero wrote:
| For what it's worth, I have a VM on their cloud offering
| and I've never had to provide them with an ID.
| thatwasunusual wrote:
| So how do you explain that I never have had to show an ID?
| detaro wrote:
| Just because Hetzner has had processes that can involve
| ID checks if deemed necessary for a long time doesn't
| mean that they check ID for everyone.
| thatwasunusual wrote:
| I understand that. I'm trying to figure out why I'm - and
| several others - are "special."
| nine_k wrote:
| A large statistical model, likely run by some third-party
| attestation service, said so. It's mostly used to refuse
| service where governments require that (say, no service
| for North Korea), or to people known to repeatedly do
| fraud, etc. But false positives occur; sometimes an
| inspection by a human helps (send an ID).
| e12e wrote:
| I'm Norwegian and have used hetzner for years - i had to send
| a copy of my passport to get started.
| nixass wrote:
| > The required either PayPal or passport
|
| I had similar struggles with some non-IT service providers in
| Germany. They couldn't fathom why I have non-German
| nationality, German address and driving license from third
| country. Passport, German address and driving license all have
| different address on them (all three being EU addresses). It is
| apparently huge red flag in EU in 21st century. Incredible
| 2000UltraDeluxe wrote:
| You have an address on your passport? I can see how that
| could cause issues if the address isn't valid. If I'd have to
| determine if your order was fraudulent or not, I'd err on the
| side of caution rather than risk having you abuse my server
| infrastructure (in the case of Hetzner).
| FinnKuhn wrote:
| German Passports have the City/Region you life in on them.
| The ID cards have your full address. So if the address of
| your ID card doesn't match your passport something is
| definitely fishy as you would have to get them updated when
| you move.
| ChuffedToBits wrote:
| German (and most other?) passports feature the name of
| the issuing authority and place of birth, no other
| location, and remain valid irregardless of your current
| registered address.
|
| Side note: It seems like many African ID cards list the
| profession and I've had to explain to several suspicious
| border guards why my passport doesn't.
|
| EDIT: I've always wondered about this and apparently the
| body that sets passport specifications is ICAO, the
| International Civil Aviation Organization, as mandated by
| the UN. Specifically through ICAO document 9303.[1]
|
| [1]https://www.icao.int/publications/documents/9303_p4_co
| ns_en....
| datenwolf wrote:
| A lot of people confuse the passport (Pass) with the
| national identity card (Personalausweis). There's no place
| of residence stated on the German passport, but it is part
| of the Personalausweis. Since German citizens by law are
| required to own a Personalausweis (there's no mandate to
| carry it around, just having it somewhere in a drawer
| suffices), practically all businesses in Germany do rely on
| the Personalausweis to validate identities. And of course
| if the place of residence stated on the Personalausweis
| doesn't match the actual place of residence this is going
| to trigger some red flags.
| onefkgff wrote:
| There is a common misconception about the law. Germans
| are only required to have either a passport or a NIC.
| andix wrote:
| This is a very German thing. I've never seen ID cards
| from other countries that include an address of
| residence. Also the obligation to own an ID card is a
| very foreign concept in most other countries.
|
| I had that issue with German companies before, especially
| those who rarely deal with international customers. For
| example in Austria only a few people own an ID card (most
| people have a passport, but not everyone). So the german
| companies were very surprised when I gave them a copy of
| the Austrian ID card, that also doesn't have an address
| on it.
| rascul wrote:
| > I've never seen ID cards from other countries that
| include an address of residence.
|
| In the USA the driver's licenses are ID cards and have
| addresses. Or if you don't have a license you can get a
| regular ID card, which has an address. The laws vary from
| state to state about how long you can go after you move
| before it gets updated. I'm not aware of a legal
| requirement to have one though, unless you're driving.
| andix wrote:
| I thought the only way in the US to prove your address of
| residence is collecting your last few phone bills and
| bank statements. It was a huge LOL moment, when I first
| heard about that.
| blackshaw wrote:
| This is true in the UK - driving licenses have your
| address on them, but for some reason they're not usually
| accepted as proof of address. I assume this is because
| you only need to renew the license (i.e. get a new copy
| of the physical piece of plastic with an updated photo
| and expiry date) every ten years, so in theory your
| driving license could be evidence that you lived
| somewhere nine years ago but not evidence that you still
| live there today.
|
| Providing a recent utility bill or bank statement is a
| much more common ask.
| singlow wrote:
| Its definitely not the only way but it is an option for
| some people who don't have other types of id.
| thewebcount wrote:
| Yeah, it's really odd and circular. You can often present
| a lease agreement if you're renting an apartment or
| house. If you own, you can usually present a mortgage
| statement. If you own and don't have a mortgage (because
| you purchased with cash), you can use bank statement
| and/or phone statement. But what's funny is, how do you
| get the bank statement and/or phone statement? You
| usually have to show a lease agreement, mortgage
| statement, or some other proof you own the place you
| live. It's fairly difficult for someone coming from
| another country to get those things when they first
| arrive because all the documents they have are from
| another country and the entry-level employees that have
| to take them would have no idea what to do with them. My
| foreign friends and neighbors have stories about having
| to use a secured credit card (basically a debit card but
| the machines think it's a credit card) for 6-12 months
| before they could get a regular credit card. It's very
| confusing (and arbitrary and broken) if you're not on the
| easy path.
| pastage wrote:
| Similar problems in many countries, there is usually no
| problems for the majority who lives there so the pressure
| to fix it is low.
| sine_break wrote:
| US does not have such cards, that is why they have issues
| with voter verification. Most countries have free IDs for
| citizens.
| vineyardmike wrote:
| Yes we do have government provided ID cards. Your
| driver's license (or if you don't drive there's a non-
| driver version that's just a card). There is no _mandate_
| to get one or carry it (except for driving).
|
| We have issues with voter registration because it's been
| politicized. Poor people are disproportionately less
| likely to have ID cards (because it costs money, takes
| time, and most people get it to drive which is
| expensive), less likely to have it up to date. It's
| disenfranchising to mandate IDs. Whether or not it's a
| problem falls down party lines and your favorite
| statistician's analysis. But that's why it's "an issue".
| bee_rider wrote:
| We have government issues ID cards, but we don't have
| free government issued ID cards as far as I know, which
| is one of the problem with these voter ID laws.
| HideousKojima wrote:
| It ranges from $10 to $90 depending on the state (average
| is ~$30) and most states also have a discounted rate for
| people under the poverty line.
| bee_rider wrote:
| It is unacceptable to charge people any amount of money
| for a voting requirement.
| biomcgary wrote:
| Is the ID requirement a leftover from the Nazi era? I
| don't suppose Germany ever issued a blanket repeal of all
| the laws passed during that error.
| usr1106 wrote:
| The law has been changed numerous times since then.
| However, the requirement to possess an ID was introduced
| with the start of WW II. So it's not completely wrong to
| call it a Nazi invention.
| jordij1 wrote:
| Spain also has the address in the DNI (national document
| of identity), and as the Germans Spain's citizens are
| also required to have such a document. Many public and
| private services will ask for your DNI if they need to
| validate your identity.
| manuelmoreale wrote:
| We have address printed on ID cards here in Italy, just
| as an extra data point in addition to the other people
| who have replied already.
| Faaak wrote:
| Spain does that
| blackshaw wrote:
| > the obligation to own an ID card is a very foreign
| concept in most other countries.
|
| Is it? From a quick search it looks like a very large
| number of countries have compulsory ID cards:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_c
| ard...
| krab wrote:
| Strange for me - the CZ ID cards work the same way as
| described.
| andix wrote:
| True. I just checked the ID cards for a few EU countries,
| and most of them don't seem to include an address of
| residence (I checked Poland, Netherlands, Belgium,
| Finland and Switzerland). France includes an address too.
|
| https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/search-by-
| document-...
| red_trumpet wrote:
| To add to this, it is actually forbidden to have a
| different main residency than the one on your
| Personalausweis if you live in Germany. If you move, you
| have to change it within a few weeks.
| nixass wrote:
| This is dumb. Should I go to my home country and update
| my personal ID/passport every time I change apartment in
| Germany?
| [deleted]
| detaro wrote:
| If you have residency permit, that gets updated. If you
| don't have (EU citizen) then having done the registration
| is enough. (I think GPs wording isn't particularly
| precise: what matters is the registration - and if you
| have a German ID document, then that gets updated at that
| point)
| fs111 wrote:
| > Since German citizens by law are required to own a
| Personalausweis
|
| This is not true. You must have an Identitatsnachweis,
| but if you have a valid passport you do not need a
| Personalausweis.
| mjochim wrote:
| German law requires you to own a Personalausweis or
| Reisepass (passport). If you have a passport, you are not
| required to also have an ID card/Personalausweis.
| jacooper wrote:
| Just send them a photo of your British passport
| andix wrote:
| They probably suffer from a lot of sign ups with fake IDs and
| with criminal intent. So I get that they are rather strict.
|
| Another thing to consider: cloud providers are not very
| interested in individuals as customers. They usually want
| companies as customers, that also buy more than a 3$ vserver. A
| solution for this problem could be a sign-up fee (50 or 100$),
| to pay for an extended manual vetting of customers, that is
| then added to the account balance.
| pid-1 wrote:
| > Another thing to consider: cloud providers are not very
| interested in individuals as customers
|
| A key theme in the "cloud vs data center" story is that most
| public cloud providers (AWS, etc...) were really easy to sign
| up, requiring a CC and nothing else.
|
| Meanwhile, hardware vendors wouldn't even talk to you as an
| individual / small business.
| HansHamster wrote:
| Tried to sign up for gcloud a couple of months ago using my
| >12 year old google account. Long story short, while I
| technically managed to sign up, I never managed to get my
| GPU quotas increased to anything above 0, support is non-
| existent and contacting sales (which seems to be the
| 'official' way, but is only really intended for business
| customers?) never got a response...
|
| Meanwhile, my small server (not Hetzner) has been running
| for many years without any issues, never had to send them
| anything after I signed up...
| bravetraveler wrote:
| Sadly not, and I'm one of the happy Hetzner customers
|
| They are remarkably well known for having draconian anti-fraud
| jonatron wrote:
| This has come up a few times on HN, if you search comments for
| "Hetzner fraud". The solution is to use a different provider if
| you can't use Hetzner.
| derefr wrote:
| I've seen the other side of this. Our SaaS (a data API) has a
| number of "customers" who attempt to use us (or our
| competitors; we're not special here) to power some data
| displays on their phishing-scam websites, to make them seem
| more legitimate.
|
| We ban these people -- they're violating our ToU by engaging
| in illegal activities. But they come back. With different
| names, different IPs, different browsers, different credit
| cards. They have complete identities to burn. (We spot the
| correlations anyway, along other dimensions I won't disclose
| here, and so can keep them out pretty effectively.)
|
| And guess what? Very often, their requests are coming from
| Hetzner IP blocks.
|
| I don't think the scammers have a direct business
| relationship with Hetzner, mind you. I think Hetzner tries
| just as hard as we do to stop these people from making use of
| their services. But I believe that these Hetzner boxes are
| either set up as exit nodes of one or more common VPN
| providers; or they're being registered for other purposes by
| other parties, and then _resold_ on the secondary market on
| dark-web forums.
|
| If I were a VPS provider, and I didn't want to support
| illegal activity, I'd probably just give up on providing
| service to individuals altogether, only taking corporate
| customers; and even then, requiring a DUNS number or
| something as an additional proof-of-work for that
| corporation, so that people can't just keep spinning up
| corporations in places where that's essentially free.
|
| Hetzner hasn't gone that far; but it makes sense to me that
| if a user account is flagged as needing extended
| verification, and the ops person responsible for verifying
| the account takes a look at the user-lifecycle activity logs
| for the user, and sees that this user has: their IP coming
| from multiple places during registration vs login, their
| browser locale and timezone bouncing around between requests
| and set for settings uncommon to the country their IP is
| originating from, etc. -- that the answer would be "ban"
| rather than "ask the user why the heck that's happening."
|
| One time out of ten, the user is a real person doing
| something weird. The other nine times out of ten, the user is
| a scammer and is going to _make up some story_ about being a
| real person doing something weird. Every scammer has their
| very own pool of man-hours, and if you 're in the critical
| path for their scam, they can burn a number of those man-
| hours being _really insistent_ that they 're authentic. Until
| you let them in, and see that they immediately start up the
| same dumb phishing-scam bot script that all the other
| scammers purchased.
| withinboredom wrote:
| It's likely they're just using hacked sites. I've seen a
| WordPress site used as a Viagra botnet. The owner of the
| business thought it was good for them because they would
| get more traffic so they had given the other party root
| access. :sigh: the shit you see as a contractor...
|
| But I'd be willing to bet you're seeing hacked servers, not
| necessarily Hetzner's fault. Hell, they didn't even have
| ipv6 firewalls until recently (like the last six months).
| derefr wrote:
| I have pretty good reason to believe that scammers are
| using purchased Hetzner credentials -- which is that some
| scammers are just right out there in the open, talking
| about how they do what they do:
| https://teletype.in/@slivmens/LjPaei8pMTT
|
| Translated quote:
|
| > To do this, we go here: [link to carding forum] and
| create a topic in the section "verified Hetzner
| accounts."
|
| > Offer price -- no more than 400 rubles is needed. The
| priority is people from Ukraine, as they have benefits.
| GEO of the person who verifies the account - any,
| excluding Russia due to sanctions.
|
| > Another important detail: the seller must register a
| fresh GMail account, use that account to create an
| account on Hetzner, and verify it themselves.
|
| > After verification, we wait 3 days before the creation
| of the new server -- otherwise the likelihood of the
| account being blocked for abuse increases.
|
| > After purchasing the account credentials, we change the
| password, both on the Gmail account, and on the Hetzner
| account.
| counttheforks wrote:
| Are you implying that someone (possibly temporarily) living
| in another country than where they're from means the
| sensible course of action is to instantly ban them?
| bootsmann wrote:
| We crawl through data like this professionally and from
| what we see, Hetzner isn't actually that bad at combating
| fraud. They are not GCP or AWS but there are other hosters
| of similar scale that have _significantly_ worse response
| times and leave up clearly compromised machines for a lot
| longer.
| mardifoufs wrote:
| I'm very curious to know who are the worst offenders! (If
| you can/want to share the details, obviously :) )
| bootsmann wrote:
| I cannot really comment on this because its A) a multi-
| dimensional problem (Hosters like Oracle have slightly
| longer mean removal time than Hetzner but less of their
| IPs end up in our aggregated blocklist, so does that make
| them worse or better idk) and B) we're trying to coax at
| least some of these hosters into using our service to
| support their fraud team so its probably best not to call
| out potential customers ;)
| lmarcos wrote:
| That's why I don't use Hetzner. I don't really want to handover
| my passport to any company. How come digital ocean doesn't
| require that?
| kyriakos wrote:
| I use credit card and was never asked for a passport. That's
| odd. Been using them for more than 5 years.
| JacobiX wrote:
| Their compliance process is quite abysmal.
|
| This is actually exactly what happened with us. After creating
| a new account with the intention of exploring the ARM64
| services, our account was unexpectedly suspended. I contacted
| them to have information on the specific concerns regarding my
| customer information and the reason for deactivating my
| account. Unfortunately, we did not receive any response to our
| inquiries.
| delusional wrote:
| I sent them a photo of my passport encrypted with their pgp
| key. This was a long time ago, so the process might have
| changed, but it seemed entirely manual.
| qwertox wrote:
| > I have no PayPal account, and their 3rd party verification
| system only allows passport from your country of residence
| (signup requires providing a contact address and they pre fill
| using this address; you can't change the passport country)
|
| Sounds like a good thing to do?
|
| My current hoster in Germany made a surprise call and asked me
| what the name of the hotel near the address I provided was.
| This after I submitted the order and before they accepted.
| [deleted]
| sunshadow wrote:
| [dead]
| aent wrote:
| I provided them with my passport and all the other documents
| they requested and they still banned me with no recourse, so
| yeah, their signup process is the worst I have ever
| experienced.
| nr2x wrote:
| I'm currently setting up infrastructure for a startup and it's
| been very interesting how the threat model of data loss and
| disaster recovery is no longer hardware failure: it's account
| lock out.
|
| I've got streaming replication of my core data going from one
| cloud company to other company as that way if one has some
| antifraud system go rogue on me I still have access.
|
| As somebody who used to spend a lot of time thinking about
| drives breaking it's an interesting shift.
| Aldipower wrote:
| Exactly. My main infrastructure is on Hetzner, but I have a
| live replication via Wireguard at another hoster in Austria.
| With less resources there, but for accessibility "in the case
| of".
| nr2x wrote:
| I'm also thinking about buying a second hand server and
| racking it in a colocation joint just so I can physically
| get the disk. The client data I have is super important,
| and there is some level of comfort you only get from bare
| metal.
| miohtama wrote:
| I would go further and have a small server/NAS running
| locally in an office. The best backup is one you sit on
| the top off.
| nr2x wrote:
| I literally have a Linux machine that I'm ready to rig up
| were it not for Comcast being my internet provider.
| Maddening to live in "Silicon Valley" and be dealing with
| dog shit data caps and speeds.
| Aldipower wrote:
| This does not pay out in Germany due to the high energy
| costs in private house holds or office spaces.
| meltedcapacitor wrote:
| For a "small server/NAS"?
| Eduard wrote:
| With 0.40 EUR/kWh, running a beefy 100 Watt NAS setup
| will cost 0.96 EUR per day.
| [deleted]
| rnk wrote:
| That's a very perceptive comment. It happens again and again
| and it's much harder to control for that, as compared to say
| making sure you are running in different amazon availability
| zones or something. If you wanted to destroy someone's
| service, probably getting them banned like you describe could
| even be easier than a DOS now. I worry about the day that
| google kills my gmail account for some random and never to be
| explained reason.
| nr2x wrote:
| Well, this site is a big reason I got the insight to focus
| on account redundancy over disk redundancy. Lots of posts
| over the years of people locked out from all the big clouds
| in a panic trying to see if an employee will see their cry
| for help on HN.
|
| I do NOT want to be making that post!
| miduil wrote:
| > Never figured out how to use Hertzner. Wanted to try since
| they get such a good reputation on here, but they banned my
| account when their system presented no way for me to verify my
| identity.
|
| I ran into the same thing as well, maybe my real name sounds a
| bit funny to their system? It was very discouraging to move
| forward after being instantly banned. I reached out to them how
| I could verify and the only way was sending them an unencrypted
| mail with my Passport copy. Upon request they suggested I could
| simply send them a fax.
|
| Note, this has been some years ago and I've never gave Hetzner
| a new try. As long as I can see from professional experience,
| you will have a lot of back and forth with Hetzner support,
| which becomes quite bad the moment your team is international
| because they'll always manage to sneak in some sort of German
| text. It really feels antiquated having to go through support
| for basic server hardware debugging. Eventually they'll often
| resort to replacing your instance.
| unixhero wrote:
| Use a VPN connection to the UK when you verify... BOOM solved
| 2000UltraDeluxe wrote:
| Using a VPN is one of the easiest way to get rejected. Most
| automated systems flag stuff coming from them as highly
| suspicious due to the sheer amount of crap coming through
| them.
| unixhero wrote:
| You can run your own from a vps and an ssh socks proxy.
| MrMan wrote:
| [dead]
| lordnacho wrote:
| They seem pretty good at writing back to people. Have you
| contacted them? It's normal for new accounts to get suspended
| pending KYC checks. But they also do the checks pretty fast.
| danesparza wrote:
| The OP indicated this in their original comment: "I asked
| what I should do to comply, and they banned my account 6
| hours later."
| withinboredom wrote:
| That's pretty suss. Just send your passport and if they
| have any issues with it, they'll ask. If they ask you for
| your passport and you ask "how do I comply" I'd probably
| suspend the account to since you seem unable or unwilling
| to comply.
| jackothy wrote:
| They asked him for a _Japanese_ passport and he does not
| have one. Hence the "how do I comply".
| withinboredom wrote:
| Just send the one you have? I don't see the problem.
| jackothy wrote:
| And I also don't see the problem with asking a clarifying
| question when he does not have what they asked for.
| withinboredom wrote:
| It's obviously a typo or something similar. The customer
| support person likely has no idea what you're talking
| about, they want a passport with your name on it, they
| don't care where it is from.
| EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
| I think they really care about two things: VAT and
| cryptocurrency. Passports are required to prove you should or
| should not pay the 19% VAT, and crypto (namely, SIA) destroy
| their servers.
| yrro wrote:
| Whoa whoa whoa I can opt out of paying VAT? How do I do this!
| EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
| That's exactly why they have draconian KYC measures in
| place)
| marcosdumay wrote:
| You prove you don't reside on the EU, and they don't bill
| you the VAT.
|
| (But I believe the KYC rules aren't only because of this.)
| yrro wrote:
| You got my hopes up but it seems I'm stuck paying UK VAT
| even though I don't think it's necessary any more.
|
| I've run into this with a few different German
| businesses, I don't know if I'm right or they are, but it
| seems like they don't _have_ to charge me VAT. Which is
| underlined by the huge "import VAT" bill I'm dumped with
| when I have physical goods delivered to me in the UK.
| robjan wrote:
| They do have to charge you VAT unless you are a VAT
| registered limited company
| fdr wrote:
| Are you using the computer for business? If so, you
| should be claiming VAT credits that neutralize VAT (since
| it's intended as a consumption tax). If they don't charge
| you VAT on behalf of the UK, the UK should be charging
| you the equivalent consumption tax by some other means to
| keep the consumption tax base neutral.
| mjochim wrote:
| Have a company whose business purpose justifies spending
| company money on servers. Make a profit so you have company
| money to spend. Spend it on servers. There you go.
| kornhole wrote:
| You get a good range of options at a low cost with Hetzner but
| need to identify yourself. Many hosting companies have
| different levels and types of verification these days. If you
| want to avoid any KYC, checkout https://kycnot.me/services#VPS.
| thejosh wrote:
| Perfect build servers for native AARCH64 compiling (though you
| can use distcc), really wish AWS had spot pricing for ARM..
| re-thc wrote:
| They do? Unless you are referring to Fargate. EC2 Graviton does
| have spot pricing?
| e40 wrote:
| Appears to be ARM v8.2, which is important to some.
| kseistrup wrote:
| Does anyone know if there is ssh/root access and what OS the
| servers are running?
| subsequentmask wrote:
| These are VPSs. You can SSH, use the root user, and when
| setting up you can choose what OS to use, they give a list or
| iirc they let you upload your own ISO.
| cstuder wrote:
| Any recommendations for an uncomplicated server OS which will
| just run Docker, SSH and not much more?
|
| I'm currently running Ubuntu but am open to alternatives. My
| local Raspberry Pi uses a fun, but little maintained OS
| called Hypriot which is just this: Start Docker and not much
| more.
| NortySpock wrote:
| Dietpi is what I switched to.
|
| Maintained, light on logging unless you ask for it (saves
| your SD card from wear and tear), and focused on low host-
| os resource usage while still being Debian-based.
| yrro wrote:
| RHEL, Debian.
|
| If you're serious about running _everything_ in containers,
| then maybe RHEL Edge? RHEL + microshift? Fedora Silverblue?
| openSUSE MicroOS?
| e12e wrote:
| You probably want podman, not Docker, on RedHat (and
| SuSe).
| chpatrick wrote:
| Ubuntu is fine for that use case.
| regularfry wrote:
| Just stick Debian on it. It'll be familiar enough from your
| Ubuntu experience, and if all you're going to do is slap
| Docker on it and run everything in containers you can just
| use Debian Stable, not care that things in the repo might
| not be bang up to date, stick unattended-upgrades on it,
| and never really worry about it until dist-upgrade time.
| layer8 wrote:
| Seconding this.
| subsequentmask wrote:
| I'm quite a large fan of Debian, it's my go to choice for
| anything server personally. It's pretty good for what you
| want here IMHO, it's stable so you won't really have to
| worry about packages screwing you over and like another
| comment said you can stick unattended-upgrades on it :)
| kseistrup wrote:
| Thanks.
| zackmorris wrote:
| I implemented a Virtual Private Cloud (VPC) on AWS with Elastic
| Container Service (ECS) using Terraform so that I could run
| Docker, and it ended up being about 2 orders of magnitude more
| expensive than Hetzner after all of the services were configured.
| For example, something as simple as AWS NAT Gateway costs $30 per
| month, and it can be challenging to get everything right if you
| don't use one. I haven't tried Heroku, but expect similar prices
| and nearly as high of a configuration burden.
|
| So what's the point of all that? Seriously, one server with 16
| cores and the memory bandwidth and storage speed of SSD drives
| should be able to serve many thousands of simultaneous requests
| and millions of users per month. I can't help but feel that the
| cloud infrastructure and microservice movement of the 2010s was..
| a scam.
|
| I just need a place to run Docker, similar to what we had with
| Linode for running a shell 20 years ago. And don't tell me how to
| set it all up. Just give me a turnkey Terraform (or Ansible-
| inspired declarative configuration management tool) setup that
| has stuff like load balancing and some degree of more advanced
| features like denial of service protection out of the box. What
| we used to think of as managed hosting, but open source, and with
| sane defaults for running standard suites like Laravel, Rails,
| etc.
|
| I have to assume that I'm just terribly out of it and something
| like this already exists. Otherwise I can't understand why
| someone doesn't just offer this and provide a way for us to pay
| them the millions of dollars we lose to spinning our wheels on
| cloud infrastructure with 1% utilization.
| nine_k wrote:
| Cloud is about elasticity. At ${work} we spin up a ton of EC2
| instances in anticipation of huge traffic spikes that happen
| predictably several times a day, in different regions, and spin
| them down afterwards.
|
| It's also about simplicity. Many services come pre-configured
| on.AWS, with clustering, failover, backups, etc already
| present.
|
| When you are small, you can sysadmin your server fine, and you
| don't yet need the cloud.
|
| When you are colossal, you want everything custom, and the
| cloud would cost you a huge amount, so you go for your own
| servers (and possibly datacenters).
|
| But for the midrange, the expense of hiring several more SREs
| to handle dedicated servers is usually higher than the entire
| AWS bill, and the cloud looks very reasonable.
| chpatrick wrote:
| How much would it cost to handle your peak load with
| dedicated servers and no scaling?
| maccard wrote:
| Last time I ran the math, it made sense for us to provision
| bare metal for 70% of our baseload, but our regions skew
| EU/US
| nine_k wrote:
| With the peak load being about 10x the still load, the
| dedicated servers should cost 10% of the cloud version.
|
| We'd likely have to have some reserve just in case our
| marketing and product do so well that the next peak of the
| load rises higher in absolute terms.
| 5Qn8mNbc2FNCiVV wrote:
| Hybrid approaches are also really good, but I'm gonna be
| honest: If capital is not an issue and the growth is to
| be expected, I wouldn't steer into dedicated server
| region. It's just such an headache if it's not the core
| business
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| Counterpoint: for some years we had clients who happily lived
| on cheap as fuck plans but requested _more_ at the
| anticipated calendar events (NY and the like).
|
| Most of the time we just removed GHz limits, sometimes adding
| vCPUs in advance, they fared well.
|
| NB: IaaS provider with a guarenteered resources
| nine_k wrote:
| Yes, if your elasticity requirements are not within hours
| but within weeks or months, adding and removing capacity
| can be done by traditional means, even by renting physical
| servers and putting them into your on-premises racks.
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| You missed the point - for some the 'elasticity' is just
| being able to consume 12-20GHz instead of ~1-2GHz 350
| days of the year. Sure, you can deploy some advanced
| hyper-scaling arch to do so... or just move to a fatter
| instance.
| sshine wrote:
| I can't help but think that a 10x user spike causing a 10x
| CPU spike is mostly caused by poorly performing web apps
| written in dynamic scripting languages and the ethos "Just
| add more servers, servers are cheaper than developers."
|
| Turns out, developers are cheaper than DevOps engineers and
| AWS budgets. So if a linear spike in servers necessitates a
| superlinear cost in operational complexity, maybe working
| highly performant web app backends is actually cheaper?
| 015a wrote:
| > I can't help but feel that the cloud infrastructure and
| microservice movement of the 2010s was.. a scam.
|
| I think the general consensus is that the most-root cause for
| why cloud infrastructure and microservice architectures matter
| is more People, less Technology. Its hard to hire highly
| experienced people, especially at the hundreds-to-thousands of
| engineers scale that many companies operate at.
|
| That, in isolation, is reasonable. The actually uncomfortable
| question that no one wants to address is: was _that_ a scam.
| Put another way, how much of that was a zero-interest rate
| phenomena, and how much "state of art best way to engineer"
| things was influenced from that, and has root causes in US
| monetary policy.
|
| Between AI and high interest rates: if you're not ready to
| spend the 2020s questioning every single thing you think you
| know about software engineering; you won't be long for the
| industry.
| mmmm2 wrote:
| My thought on this is we've all been trained to follow the
| Google approach: thousands of machines, horizontally
| scalable, to handle any load. But this model was developed in
| 2004 when they wanted to hold the entire web in memory and
| could afford the enormous hardware outlay.
|
| Computers are so powerful now this may be the wrong instinct.
| You can mind boggling amounts of processing for say...
| $30,000 in hardware, and even with redundancy it would be
| much simpler to manage.
| simplotek wrote:
| > I think the general consensus is that the most-root cause
| for why cloud infrastructure and microservice architectures
| matter is more People, less Technology.
|
| Indeed the main selling point of microservices is People,
| more specifically how to set hard boundaries on
| responsibilities and accountability while ensuring
| independent decision-making.
|
| Another important selling point of microservices is
| flexibility. It's trivial to put together an entirely new
| service from scratch, written in whatever technology crosses
| your mind. With microservices you don't even need access to a
| repo.
| lmarcos wrote:
| I think one disadvantage of putting everything (nginx, web
| server, database, monitoring tools, etc.) in one machine is
| that suddenly your machine is exposing a myriad of ports to the
| internet and one mistake on your side (e.g., misconfigured auth
| module) is all what's needed to compromise your entire service.
|
| Having some sort of vpc where you can safely put your db server
| that only listens to requests from servers within the same vpc
| (e.g., web server) sounds like good practice to me.
| gizzlon wrote:
| Hm, why? You can run services without exposing their ports to
| the whole world. Or use unix sockets..
| Eduard wrote:
| > I think one disadvantage of putting everything (nginx, web
| server, database, monitoring tools, etc.) in one machine is
| that suddenly your machine is exposing a myriad of ports to
| the internet and one mistake on your side (e.g.,
| misconfigured auth module) is all what's needed to compromise
| your entire service.
|
| All the Linux distributions I got to know use sensible
| defaults so that critical services don't bind to a public-
| facing interface / bind only to localhost, e.g. mariadb and
| mysql on Debian.
|
| Besides that, Hetzner's "Robot" interface allows to configure
| which ports/IP addresses you allow access to your Hetzner
| server.
| nightpool wrote:
| "I haven't tried Heroku, but expect similar prices and nearly
| as high of a configuration burden."
|
| Are you kidding me? Prices, sure, but comparing the
| configuration burden using AWS or GCP alphabet soup to a dead-
| simple Heroku setup is ridiculous. You set up something like
| hirefire.io for autoscaling, you connect your Github repo and
| that's it. You're done. Compared to weeks worth of headaches
| setting up Terraform Cloud and CI actions and massaging your
| state file and spending days tearing your headout over insane
| obtuse NAT configuration parameters? It's literally night and
| day.
| j45 wrote:
| I don't know that this is terribly off base.
|
| The cloud almost always ends up costing a lot more at scale and
| increasingly at the beginning.
|
| In some part this is because the cloud is someone else's
| computers that you have to help pay for.
|
| The current incarnation of cloud was designed in part to work
| around scaling issues with Linux networking, which have long
| since been solved. What a $5 Linode/VPS can do today vs 10
| years ago is much different from a linux standpoint alone
| before additional horsepower.
|
| At the same time tooling to host (docker, ansible, terraform)
| is making traditional devops heavier at times.
| Deloritoono wrote:
| Hetzner is great but it's not a good choice for companies which
| really care.
|
| Your data is not encrypted in rest.
|
| Their security is not bad but someone can easily plugin
| whatever they like.
|
| Try this at Google. Google not just has much stricter physical
| access control but also FULL control over the hardware. They
| know the firmware of the Mainboard. The server don't even
| unencrypt and start if you move them out of their Datacenter.
|
| Google doesn't just has ingress egress they have undersea
| cable.
|
| There is so much difference between hetzner and google it's not
| the same thing.
| Eduard wrote:
| > Hetzner is great but it's not a good choice for companies
| which really care. Your data is not encrypted in rest.
|
| It's up to you to set up "encryption in rest": E.g setup LUKS
| on a Hetzner machine.
|
| > Their security is not bad but someone can easily plugin
| whatever they like.
|
| That's not how it is. Check e.g. this six-year old security
| video from Hetzner: Hetzner is great but it's not a good
| choice for companies which really care. Your data is not
| encrypted in rest.
|
| Their security is not bad but someone can easily plugin
| whatever they like.
| Deloritoono wrote:
| I know the video quite well and I also have stuff on
| hetzner.
|
| But it's just levels different to Google.
|
| I have a small startup at hetzner.
|
| But my main job has everything at the big cloud providers
| because of audit logs, high slash, global network etc. And
| no the hetzner video shows already that hetzner can't
| fullfil all required security certifications.
|
| They have rows and rows of desktop PCs there.
|
| With 'really' care I mean if you process millions or
| billions you just don't go to hetzner.
|
| And doing encryption on rest with what decryption method?
| Manual unlock through a remote console?
|
| At Google you literally have encryption on rest by default
| with key rotation build in and you can use your own keys.
|
| Dimensions of difference
| DarkPhily wrote:
| You are really comparing Google, which sells Cloud products,
| against a company which have a variety of products?
|
| If you only compare the cloud products. How do you know that
| they aren't encrypting their drives?
|
| And BTW, they own undersea cables as well ;)
| https://www.hetzner.com/presse-berichte/2016/01/156818
|
| Please educate yourself before you make such wild claims.
| Deloritoono wrote:
| They don't own undersea cables.
|
| They invested in one and it's not stated how much.
|
| And yes I'm comparing google with hetzner as answer to the
| op to tell him that cloud is more than just cheap compute.
|
| I'm trying to explain why people pay a premium for cloud
| services and what the difference is.
|
| And I use and like hetzner a lot. I'm happy to use hetzner
| for plenty of things just not for everything.
| simplotek wrote:
| > So what's the point of all that? Seriously, one server with
| 16 cores and the memory bandwidth and storage speed of SSD
| drives should be able to serve many thousands of simultaneous
| requests and millions of users per month. I can't help but feel
| that the cloud infrastructure and microservice movement of the
| 2010s was.. a scam.
|
| You're just missing the whole point of why you need n>1
| instances. You're focusing on what might be the least
| compelling reason for the majority of applications, which is
| scalability.
|
| Reliability and fault tolerance is a major selling point, and
| you can't simply expect to have adequate performance in more
| than one region if you're providing your services out of a
| single box in a single data center. The laws of physics ensure
| your quality of service will suck.
|
| Operations also compell you to have multiple instances, ranging
| from blue/green deployments to one-box deployment strategies.
| And are you going to allow your business to be down for
| significant amounts of time whenever you need to update your
| OS? How would you explain all that downtime to your
| boss/shareholders? Are the tens of dollars you save on
| infrastructure a good tradeoff?
|
| Also, security is also a concern. You're better off isolating
| your backend from frontend services, and software-defined
| networks aren't a silver bullet.
|
| And in the end, are the tradeoffs of not designing your web
| services the right way really worth it?
| patrickthebold wrote:
| My pet theory is that VCs also hold a lot of Amazon stock or
| perhaps more reasonably: are friendly with people who own a
| lot of Amazon stock.
| glutamate wrote:
| A simple single node is often more reliable than a complex
| fault-tolerant setup. Fewer moving parts mean fewer broken
| pieces.
|
| Similar with security. A simple monolith is more secure than
| isolated front- and backend.
| martinald wrote:
| Agreed entirely for most. I have seen so many insanely
| complicated and eye wateringly expensive architectures for
| what are simple web apps on the big clouds. Often the team
| don't really understand the intricacies of all these
| services and how they interrelate which causes often cause
| a lot of stability problems.
|
| Even if they don't, there is usually a huge tax on
| developer productivity with these architectures, which
| often outweighs any improved stability over the long term.
|
| Let's keep in mind that modern hardware and software is
| very stable, generally.
| jamesfinlayson wrote:
| Agreed - I worked for a company with 30 people dedicated
| entirely to managing the mess they'd created in AWS - and
| their AWS account manager somehow managed to keep
| convincing them to use more and newer AWS services to dig
| them in even further.
| mike_hock wrote:
| > cloud infrastructure and microservice movement of the 2010s
| was.. a scam.
|
| Unfathomably based.
| MagicMoonlight wrote:
| Isn't this entire site run off a laptop in someone's shed?
|
| And yet it's got basically perfect uptime. Whereas the
| impenetrable cloud goes down every week and costs billions a
| year.
| simplotek wrote:
| > And yet it's got basically perfect uptime.
|
| Some monitors indicate that hackernews has a 99.84% uptime in
| the past 30 days. Hardly "perfect".
|
| https://hacker-news.statuspal.io/
| viraptor wrote:
| And that still doesn't include the very short term soft-
| failures where HN tells you "something happened, try again"
| - those happen every week or so.
| jnwatson wrote:
| The price disparity is getting worse. Cloud price reductions
| haven't kept pace with the amazing pace of hardware performance
| improvements, especially in I/O and RAM quantity.
|
| For $400 you can buy an SSD with 1.5 million sustained IoPS.
|
| It is no big deal to build a 1TiB RAM box these days.
| andix wrote:
| If there were no microservices, a lot of companies would run
| their monoliths on a few VMs, with a small fraction of the cost
| ;)
| RowanH wrote:
| If it wasn't for a good portion of tech leads FAANG
| aspirational goals I bet a lot more companies would be on
| monoliths. It's simply staggering the productivity and cost
| differences (up to of course a certain point) being on
| monoliths vs microservices. The discussions on authorisation
| alone.....
| simplotek wrote:
| > If it wasn't for a good portion of tech leads FAANG
| aspirational goals I bet a lot more companies would be on
| monoliths.
|
| I think you inadvertently pointed out one of the advantages
| of microservices: the ability to bootstrap ideas without
| having to be hindered by artificial barriers to entry. If
| you have an idea and want to show it off, you just
| implement it and make it available to the public. Call it
| "aspirational goals", but I don't see any advantage in
| barring people from providing value without having to
| wrangle bureaucracies, red tape, and office politics.
| INeedMoreRam wrote:
| [dead]
| jacooper wrote:
| Finally! That's where ARM Alta CPUs shine Try your luck to get
| them for free in oracle free tier, just make sure to have
| backups!
| solarkraft wrote:
| Oracle's free tier is cool. I've let my free instance expire
| and so far haven't noticed them doing anything weird with my
| credit card info.
|
| Also haven't been sued yet. But let's see.
| usr1106 wrote:
| Oracle did not accept my credit card. The same one AWS has
| been charging successfully for years.
|
| But I don't really want to do business with Oracle anyway,
| maybe it's better so.
| jacooper wrote:
| Can confirm, they are very picky about the credit cards
| they accept.
| daneel_w wrote:
| If your tenancy is unpaid your "always free"-classed
| instances can be terminated without notice in order to
| provide capacity for a paid tenancy when necessary. You can
| upgrade to paid tenancy and simply keep using "always free"
| resources for a $0.00 monthly bill.
| IceWreck wrote:
| I'm still on unpaid tenancy and oracle docs say that
| reclaim servers which are under or overutilized.
|
| I use my oracle free servers (and one paid vps on hetzner)
| as automatic cloud fallbacks if my homelab is inaccessible
| over the internet for some reason. Which means I fall in
| the underutilized category as most of the time workload is
| under 2%. So I "fake" work to prevent reclaimation by
| oracle and its worked well so far.
|
| ``` # Oracle Cloud reclaims idle resources #
| https://docs.oracle.com/en-
| us/iaas/Content/FreeTier/freetier...
|
| - name: Create cronjob for minimum CPU utilization
| ansible.builtin.cron: name: fake work to
| prevent re-claimation special_time: hourly
| job: timeout 30s sha1sum /dev/zero
|
| ```
| trvz wrote:
| Geekbench 5 results for rough comparison, best of 3+ runs:
|
| ---
|
| Intel 1-core VPS single: 719
|
| (2 GB RAM)
|
| ---
|
| Intel 2-core VPS single: 729
|
| Intel 2-core VPS multi: 1402
|
| (4 GB RAM)
|
| ---
|
| AMD 2-core VPS single: 1141
|
| AMD 2-core VPS multi: 2214
|
| (2 GB RAM)
|
| ---
|
| Ampere 2-core VPS single: 872
|
| Ampere 2-core VPS multi: 1716
|
| (4 GB RAM)
|
| ---
|
| Ampere 16-core VPS single: 880
|
| Ampere 16-core VPS multi: 12143
|
| (32 GB RAM)
|
| ---
|
| And for some fun, my iPad Pro from 2018, single: 1135
|
| If Android CPUs are 4 years behind Apple, then Arm on servers is
| maybe 8 years.
| smoldesu wrote:
| At least till the big boys arrive: https://www.nvidia.com/en-
| us/data-center/grace-cpu/
| e63f67dd-065b wrote:
| > The new server plans start at the unbeatable prices of just EUR
| 3.79 a month, which includes an IPv4 address, and there is no
| setup fee or minimum contract period. If users' servers only
| exist for part of the month, they will only pay for the hours
| when the servers existed. This hourly billing option gives
| customers even more flexibility and will help keep costs low
|
| Unless I'm blind, the price clearly says 4.52 EUR/mo with IPv4 at
| https://www.hetzner.com/cloud for a CAX11 instance, the smallest
| listed there.
|
| Edit: nevermind, I didn't deselect Germany's 19% VAT. It is
| indeed 3.79 euros before sales tax.
| martin_a wrote:
| 4.52 is the price with German VAT included, without it, it's
| 3.79.
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(page generated 2023-04-12 23:02 UTC)