[HN Gopher] What are the most common tinnitus frequencies? (2015)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       What are the most common tinnitus frequencies? (2015)
        
       Author : walterbell
       Score  : 135 points
       Date   : 2023-04-11 08:26 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.audionotch.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.audionotch.com)
        
       | ShadowBanThis01 wrote:
       | Mine started after a COVID booster (which is finally being
       | recognized as a cause, too late for many of us). 9 kHz.
        
         | mderazon wrote:
         | Don't feel bad, mine started after COVID infection so you might
         | have gotten it anyway
        
       | totetsu wrote:
       | I have had a Tinnitus tone for as long as I remember. I always do
       | well on hearing tests and it doesn't bothers me really. Someone
       | on HN once mentioned a technique of tapping the back of you skull
       | to give temporary relief. It works surprisingly, but for me it
       | just shifts the frequency of the tone up a bit. I'd be interested
       | to test if this shift is just perceptual or if it could be
       | measured
        
         | dalmo3 wrote:
         | Just tried that. Sounds like switching channels on old tube
         | TVs.
        
         | 000ooo000 wrote:
         | I know the skull tapping method you mention but unfortunately I
         | only get very temporary relief using it - 20 or so seconds -
         | and it's quite an unpleasant experience, if we are thinking of
         | the same method. Mine is: hands over ears with fingers wrapping
         | around back of head such that middle finger tips just touch,
         | lift index finger on to middle finger, press index finger down
         | hard onto middle finger and slide it off such that it quickly
         | slaps the back of the head/neck (similar to a standard thumb-
         | index finger clicking motion). Repeat this for 10-20 seconds
         | using both hands to get about 30 taps. It's loud, not quite but
         | almost painful, and doesn't provide very long relief for me so
         | I don't use it much.
        
           | bhasi wrote:
           | It is temporary relief for me as well. More like a gimmick
           | than a solution.
        
           | dontlaugh wrote:
           | It works for maybe a second or two for me.
        
       | JayStavis wrote:
       | I had a pretty brutal headcold a few years back and for about two
       | weeks afterwards I had what I described as "supersonic hearing"
       | though my doctor called it tinnitus.
       | 
       | I could hear my neighbor's garage opening a block away in San
       | Francisco and had a frequency sensitivity that was totally
       | abnormal. It was also really painful so I'm glad I got my normal
       | hearing range back.
        
         | nonethewiser wrote:
         | Hmm I didn't think that was tinnitus. Maybe symptoms are
         | broader than I thought. I wonder if that's what I have.
         | 
         | I had a bad sinus infection that has mostly healed. Sometimes I
         | can hear this very low rhythmic beating in my ear. It's like
         | someone banging on my furnace or doing some sort of distant
         | construction (banging on sheet metal). I can even hear it with
         | noise canceling headphones on (but no music, that drowns it
         | out). The rhythm makes me wonder if it's my heartbeat somehow.
         | 
         | For a long time I thought it was distant construction but I'm
         | in a very rural area with no construction around, and I've
         | noticed it over the span of months. It's either something like
         | tinnitus or maybe my neighbor is tunneling under my house.
        
           | rocketbop wrote:
           | It likely is your heartbeat. I had a similar thing for a long
           | time. Advice would be to try and forget about it, and it will
           | go away. The more attention. You give it the more prominent
           | it will become.
           | 
           | I think the brain tends to filter the body sounds out of our
           | consciousness in general and sometimes it sort of forgets to,
           | or becomes rewired to notice or focus on something that is
           | normally filtered.
        
         | 1970-01-01 wrote:
         | This is called hyperacusis, and it's related to tinnitus.
         | Hearing the door bell, unrolling a strip of packing tape, or
         | even walking down a busy street can make you feel physical
         | pain.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperacusis
        
           | unvs wrote:
           | Thanks for this. I remember having this as a child, where the
           | sound of walking down the stairs at home would be painful and
           | almost threatening. It hasn't returned since then,
           | thankfully.
        
           | rewgs wrote:
           | I have this, as well as multiple very loud permanent tinnitus
           | tones. The latter sucks, but hyperacusis ruined my life, as
           | well as stopping my career as a (I think it's fair to
           | describe myself this way) promising film/video game composer
           | dead in its track.
           | 
           | It is the most horrible condition you can ever imagine. I'm
           | over two years in and am only recently back to being able to
           | live a somewhat normal life, but I easily get "setbacks" due
           | to loud sounds. In the hyperacusis community it's well known
           | that these can become your new normal -- it's happened to me
           | multiple times.
           | 
           | Protect your ears and try your best to not get concussions,
           | folks. Though I can't confirm that one or either is the
           | cause, it's my best guess and is good advice anyway.
        
           | stephenitis wrote:
           | Thank you, this describes me!
           | 
           | I have been trying to describe my hearing symptoms to people
           | and I could only say that I thought I was more sensitive than
           | almost all of my peers. I thought it was because I was mildly
           | on the spectrum(this is listed as an associated condition)
           | 
           | I will try to get a doctor to confirm if possible.
           | 
           | It doesn't cause me physical pain but certain many sounds
           | will cause great discomfort in my life. It also keeps me from
           | good sleep because I can't tune out sounds.
           | 
           | I wear earplugs to concerts and have a decibel monitor app on
           | my phone.
           | 
           | I enjoy producing music in my free time and also enjoy taking
           | the occasional psychedelic. Which is probably making it
           | worse.
        
           | JayStavis wrote:
           | TIL. I was semi-hoping someone would fill in the gap! At the
           | same time I'm wondering why the heck my doctor won't tell me
           | these things.
        
             | sbierwagen wrote:
             | The average doctor does not have an encyclopedic knowledge
             | of all human disease, and if they do, they are discouraged
             | from using it:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_(medicine)
        
             | samplatt wrote:
             | Doctors only know what they've been taught or experienced.
             | You'd hope specialists would know these things, but even
             | they miss things and forget things. And GP's?
             | fuggeddaboutit
        
         | IIAOPSW wrote:
         | I have an uncle that has this funny habit of answering the door
         | before you ring the bell. That sounds impressive until you
         | learn how many times a day he opens the door and no one is
         | there. He's schizophrenic. The cost of increased sensitivity is
         | a higher false positive rate. If there were no drawbacks,
         | evolution would have given us heightened senses 100% of the
         | time.
         | 
         | I'm not suggesting you had any sort of psychiatric issue. I'm
         | sure your increased sensitivity was very real and very grounded
         | in realistic expectations of reality. But, are you sure that
         | there were no false positives that came with the heightened
         | sensory experience? Did you ever check that the thing you
         | recognized as a garage door opening down the block was in fact
         | a garage door opening down the block? Could it have been some
         | other subtle sound you normally don't pick up on?
        
           | JayStavis wrote:
           | On the garage door bit, yes I actually did confirm this.
           | 
           | With that said, was certainly hearing all sorts of things
           | that I didn't know what they were, typically very low
           | frequencies. Another comment mentioned my own heartbeat which
           | I could hear, and I couldn't go into work for a few days due
           | to how painful and distracting ambient noise was.
           | 
           | For the duration of the period I was wearing noise-canceling
           | airpods, and it was the only way trucks passing by outside
           | wouldn't make me wince.
           | 
           | No history of psychiatric issues fwiw, but have had my share
           | of ENT irregularities (I can't properly equalize while
           | diving, for example).
        
             | IIAOPSW wrote:
             | Really really want to clarify I was in no way implying a
             | psychiatric issue. Just that anything which turns up the
             | sensitivity of our perception also turns up our false
             | positive rate. Everyone experiences false positives
             | sometimes: occasional, temporary, erroneous perceptions.
             | Its only psychiatric when the signal to noise ratio is too
             | low to correct.
             | 
             | Very interested in the ultra low frequency bit. Any
             | estimate at how many hertz it was? Somewhere under 20 hz it
             | has to stop being sound and start being a consciously
             | perceptible "puff of air".
        
       | 1letterunixname wrote:
       | It sounds like REEEEEEEEEEEEEE constantly.
       | 
       | Also have SCDS in my left ear: I can "hear" my left eye move.
        
       | cpeterso wrote:
       | I listen to notched pink noise videos on YouTube because they
       | mask my tinnitus and help me concentrate. People have posted
       | white/pink/etc noise videos with notch filters to match a range
       | of different tinnitus frequencies. I don't think the notch has
       | helped me, but if I'm already going to listen to pink noise, I
       | might as well try the notched noise.
        
       | excalibur wrote:
       | Oh you'd love it if I would post my personal tinnitus frequency
       | here so you could target an attack for my ears specifically
       | and.... hack me or something. Not gonna happen, I'm onto you (
       | [?] [?])
        
         | DoreenMichele wrote:
         | Someone with an entire wardrobe of tinfoil hats has entered the
         | convo.
         | 
         | ;)
        
         | TeMPOraL wrote:
         | Yes, what people call tinnitus is really just being able to
         | hear your individual interlink frequency in the collective
         | consciousness.
        
       | y-c-o-m-b wrote:
       | I have "somatic tinnitus" where I can change the tone, frequency,
       | and sometimes make it disappear altogether for a few days. This
       | is a working theory, but it's supposedly caused by inflammatory
       | arthritis (spondyloarthritis) in my cervical spine and other
       | areas compressing nerves and arteries. I can also move the
       | ligament in my C8-T1 spine, which causes all sorts of side
       | effects but it can also resolve or make worse my tinnitus for
       | several days. Sometimes just moving my neck towards one shoulder
       | can also resolve or make worse my tinnitus.
       | 
       | It's been like this for almost 10 years now with the worst of it
       | starting about 5 years ago. Not many doctors are familiar with
       | this condition, so as you can guess, I get a lot of looks like
       | I'm crazy but it's legit happening. Not to mention this is the
       | least of my neurological concerns. The US healthcare system thus
       | far has been hugely disappointing in giving a damn beyond "yep,
       | looks like you have to live with this forever".
        
       | bhasi wrote:
       | Is this thing legit?
        
         | ttpphd wrote:
         | Hi _waves_ I am a hearing scientist. There is not enough
         | information provided in this write-up to judge the data. Take
         | it with a big grain of salt. There could be UI /UX factors that
         | are not accounted for which could swamp out any sort of
         | meaningful information about tinnitus perception, for example.
        
           | 000ooo000 wrote:
           | Have you had much exposure to tinnitus research? Is there
           | much promise showing, assuming there is some going on, in
           | terms of an eventual treatment?
        
           | walterbell wrote:
           | What's the current method recommended by hearing scientists /
           | audiologists?
        
           | bhasi wrote:
           | Thank you so much for the reply! I am apprehensive about
           | trying this app out for fear of inadvertently causing my
           | tinnitus to increase.
        
       | DoreenMichele wrote:
       | PSA -- because articles about anything tinnitus-related typically
       | result in people discussing home remedies or the like -- for some
       | people tinnitus is indicative of magnesium deficiency.
        
         | aitchnyu wrote:
         | I'm stressed by losing my job and I have symptoms (muscle pain,
         | tiredness, insomnia) that I self diagnosed and treating with
         | magnesium pills. When will the tinnitus be gone :-)
        
       | pier25 wrote:
       | I have mild tinnitus. It's super high in frequency, very close to
       | my threshold of hearing around 13k or so (I'm 44). I mostly only
       | notice it when putting on headphones (without anything playing).
       | Also sometimes if I'm in a really silent room but that's not a
       | daily occurence.
       | 
       | It started about 2-3 years ago, weeks after my first COVID shots.
       | I don't know if these event are related or not but there's
       | mounting anecdotal evidence that more research is needed.
       | 
       | https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/article/covid-va...
       | 
       | Some weeks ago I started taking some mushrooms (lions mane, etc)
       | and niacin or nicotinic acid (a form of vitamin B3). Not
       | niacinamide which is also another form of B3. I'd say on average
       | my tinnitus has been reduced by 30-40%.
        
         | mderazon wrote:
         | Mine started right after COVID infection. I was already
         | vaccinated but got a very mild COVID. First sense of smell was
         | gone and then tinnitus started.
        
         | ShadowBanThis01 wrote:
         | "It started about 2-3 years ago, weeks after my first COVID
         | shots."
         | 
         | After experiencing hearing loss and tinnitus following my last
         | COVID booster, I have seen two of the top specialists in the
         | country, who were quite vehement in assuring me that this is a
         | "true agent" and that information on it has been suppressed.
         | 
         | https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/article/covid-va...
         | 
         | https://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/investigations/can-the...
         | 
         | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8443418/
         | 
         | https://www.news-medical.net/news/20220523/Pfizer-COVID-19-v...
         | 
         | https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/tinnitus-rare-sid...
         | 
         | Facebook group for victims, with several thousand members:
         | https://www.facebook.com/groups/265035901879921/
        
         | dahart wrote:
         | It generally kinda seems like maybe inflammation or other kinds
         | of bodily stress increase tinnitus symptoms. Getting sick and
         | having a shot have that in common, along with various accidents
         | and other medications. Research into tinnitus tiggers is
         | needed, but we have to be a little careful about implying the
         | Covid vaccine can cause it, without comparing it to other
         | things or to not taking the vaccine, since even though the shot
         | might trigger an increase in symptoms, it appears getting Covid
         | is even more likely, so the shot may be the route that is far
         | less likely to trigger tinnitus. It also might be almost any
         | sickness vs almost any vaccine.
         | 
         | My tinnitus did seem to get worse right after my first shot,
         | while I was feeling crummy, and then went back to normal. (It
         | also gets worse when I'm low on sleep, sometimes when I
         | exercise, and when it's quiet.) A friend believes he got
         | tinnitus from the Covid shot - but he's ~50 and that's when a
         | lot of people first notice tinnitus. A huge problem with
         | tinnitus is often you have it for a while before you notice it.
         | I'm pretty sure I just didn't become aware of my tinnitus until
         | it had been there for months or years. It's not surprising that
         | an event that increases the symptoms might be blamed or
         | associated with tinnitus, since you're more likely to notice
         | it, even if the condition was already there.
        
           | ShadowBanThis01 wrote:
           | I protect my hearing and do a lot of audio work. My symptoms
           | definitely coincided with COVID shots. Furthermore, my
           | girlfriend developed them as well at the same time (we got
           | our shots at the same), but we didn't mention them to each
           | other until after mine became severe after my last booster.
           | 
           | Two hearing specialists confirmed that this is a true
           | relationship, which is being suppressed in the media and in
           | public. People, even experts in the field, are afraid of
           | being "cancelled" for decrying this serious vaccine risk. And
           | rightfully so. I've been reported and shadow-banned for
           | simply making these statements and posting the links I
           | provided above (which go to a research paper and mainstream
           | news sources).
           | 
           | The initial symptom after the COVID shots was occasional
           | sudden attenuation of hearing in one ear, accompanied by a
           | high-frequency tone. These both diminish over the next minute
           | or two.
           | 
           | After my second booster (which she did not get), my symptoms
           | became severe and continuous.
        
             | dahart wrote:
             | Sorry to hear your tinnitus got worse. The boosters had no
             | effect on mine. Hey I believe you that the shots can
             | increase these symptoms, and I agree it's a touchy subject.
             | I just wanted to be clear that even though it's true (and
             | happened to me), that still doesn't mean the summary that
             | the vaccine is a "serious risk" is correct, because there's
             | a high risk of tinnitus when you skip the vaccine and catch
             | Covid.
        
               | ShadowBanThis01 wrote:
               | Thanks. I think it's a serious risk, especially when
               | weighed against the effectiveness of some boosters. The
               | second original booster was nearly useless, so the
               | risk/reward ratio was much higher than that of the
               | original shots.
               | 
               | But because this side-effect information is being
               | suppressed, millions of people were denied the right to
               | assess that ratio. I would never have gotten that second
               | booster had I been apprised of this risk.
               | 
               | People have the option to wear highly effective masks
               | that protect both them and others in risky situations if
               | they don't want shots. I was denied the info to make an
               | informed choice, and there's no excuse for that.
        
         | clsec wrote:
         | I _had_ mild tinnitus for years that I believe I got working w
         | /loud machinery & going to lots of concerts (clubs are actually
         | worse because you are more likely to stand next to the
         | speakers). The morning after my second Pfizer mRNA shot I awoke
         | to what amounts to a miniature jet engine inside my ear. It has
         | persisted for 2 years & has been extremely stressful and
         | disconcerting.
         | 
         | After a long time (during covid) I was finally able to see my
         | PC who sent me to an audiologist for a hearing test. The
         | audiologist only found slight hearing loss at high frequencies
         | in my left ear (the ear closest to the CNC machines I used to
         | work with). She said she didn't see anything else abnormal &
         | asked if I wanted an MRI to see if it could find anything. I
         | agreed. The MRI found nothing wrong with my ear or eustachian
         | tube.
         | 
         | I've reported it to VAERS and have been sort of following
         | Gregory Poland, MD [1](director of Mayo Clinic Vaccine Research
         | Group), who also got tinnitus from his first mRNA covid shot.
         | The issue definitely needs research.
         | 
         | Dr Poland, along with others, have recently released a couple
         | of reports [2,3] saying that we need a new roadmap for covid
         | vaccines. I agree!
         | 
         | Also, I used that tone generator site that someone else posted
         | and it seems that my jet engine screams at about 18000 Hz.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Poland [2]
         | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X2...
         | [3] https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/cidrap-unveils-
         | roadmap-a...
         | 
         | Edit to add VAERS website. If you suspect you got tinnitus from
         | an mRNA vaccine please report it here:
         | https://vaers.hhs.gov/reportevent.html
        
           | pier25 wrote:
           | Thanks for the info.
           | 
           | > _it seems that my jet engine screams at about 18000 Hz_
           | 
           | It's impressive you can hear that frequency. If you don't
           | mind me asking, how old are you?
        
             | clsec wrote:
             | No prob! I turned 57 in February.
        
               | pier25 wrote:
               | Holy shit it's amazing you can hear up to 18k!
        
       | edb_123 wrote:
       | Mine is a deep sinus tone around 50-60 Hz. The amplitude varies
       | between the days/sometimes between the hours. Pretty annoying,
       | even though it's most prominent in quiet environments, and I can
       | imagine having a loud high pitched tinnitus would perhaps be
       | worse.
        
         | comradesmith wrote:
         | Are you sure you're not hearing something real from the
         | electrical grid?
        
         | genewitch wrote:
         | this immediately struck me as a possible example of "The
         | Hum"[0], although that is said to "peak at around 40hz"
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hum
         | 
         | And on the main topic, i occasionally have ringing ears, and
         | about 90% of the time i know why (usually a loud engine that i
         | wasn't wearing protection near), but 10% of the time, like
         | during a quiet weekend at home - it appears out of nowhere. I
         | am not sure what my frequency is, but it's well over 1khz.
        
       | thamer wrote:
       | Trying the most commonly reported frequency of ~8,000 Hz on a
       | tone generator[1] provides a good example of how distressing this
       | can be. If you give it a try, I would recommend you turn the
       | volume almost all the way down before pressing play.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
        
         | exodust wrote:
         | Nice link. I was able to roughly match the tinnitus in my left
         | ear to somewhere near 12,000 Hz. Mine is a constant super high-
         | pitch so difficult to match exactly. Surprised I could still
         | hear the generated tone that high.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | albrewer wrote:
         | I hadn't thought of doing this; I just informally tested mine
         | to find I've got a dead zone between ~13kHz and ~14.5kHz. I can
         | hear the sound above and below that range - it fades out, then
         | back in as I move higher in frequency.
        
       | dmtroyer wrote:
       | Funny, I'm right at 8000Hz like the peak of their distribution.
       | I've had tinnitus for years but never knew the frequency until
       | now.
        
       | rendall wrote:
       | I have a whole concert of tinnitus frequencies. It is not a
       | single tone. I don't remember when it started, but it has been
       | there for decades.
       | 
       | I've read that tinnitus is akin to phantom limb syndrome, the
       | brain compensating for missing frequencies it no longer hears.
       | Happily, I can ignore it, but it's always there.
        
       | ggm wrote:
       | 8 years later an update would be fascinating. Would overtones and
       | frequency doubling or splitting or harmonising account for any of
       | this?
        
         | themodelplumber wrote:
         | And did that YouTube cure ever really work? A remedy that was
         | going around some years ago, I think involving doing something
         | to the back of the head...
        
           | talesvin wrote:
           | If it's that tapping in the back of the head for like a
           | minute you're talking about, it seems to work for some people
           | and just temporarily the tinnitus always come back. I've
           | tried it a bunch of times and i worked for me only once for
           | example.
        
         | moremetadata wrote:
         | [dead]
        
       | andrewmcwatters wrote:
       | Not a paid shill, but Loop Experience Plus Earplugs are really
       | great. If you plan on going to a concert, they're a good option,
       | or any other hearing protection specifically designed for
       | concerts.
        
         | anttiharju wrote:
         | The thing is the carrying case is super small and easy to lose
         | unless you attach it to something big.
        
       | anderspitman wrote:
       | I occasionally play live music and after a particularly loud show
       | started looking for ear protection that wouldn't muffle things
       | too much. These are both popular suggestions:
       | 
       | https://eargasm.com/
       | 
       | https://www.etymotic.com/product/er20xs/
        
         | JenrHywy wrote:
         | I go to concerts pretty regularly and have had both- the
         | eargasms are much more comfortable and sound better. That said,
         | the Etys are very durable - mine lasted for something like 20
         | years
        
         | cameronh90 wrote:
         | I can hear the music at a live gig far better with a good set
         | of musicians ear plugs. Live music is often so loud that it
         | seems to get distorted within my ears, but the ear plugs bring
         | that under control. The fact that I can hear properly for the
         | next day or two is a bonus.
         | 
         | I do find it unusual, though, that I can still feel the bass in
         | my chest even though the music is no longer unbearably loud.
        
       | alainchabat wrote:
       | I developed tinnitus a month ago after a flight. I was sick and
       | coughing right after the plane, but this time, I didn't equalize
       | the pressure in my ears as I usually do. A day later, I noticed
       | the tinnitus. Two weeks ago, I went to see an ENT doctor who
       | prescribed steroids and medication to improve blood circulation
       | around my ear for two weeks. He said it might be because of the
       | flight, and I should try to get rid of it as soon as possible,
       | otherwise my brain would think this is the "new normal".
       | 
       | I think now the condition is better. Now hear the ringing sound
       | from time to time, not every night, but sometimes during the day
       | when I get tired, angry, or think about it. I hope this condition
       | goes away soon.
        
         | idontwantthis wrote:
         | Do you know what the blood circulation medication was?
        
           | alainchabat wrote:
           | Nicametate citrate 50mg, I take it 2x a day
           | 
           | Stating the obvious: check with a doctor before taking them
        
         | ttyprintk wrote:
         | It can go away.
         | 
         | Even though I've had it precisely since a particular flight,
         | doctors don't want to ascribe causation. Otitic bachtrytrauma
         | has come up.
        
         | WanderPanda wrote:
         | Is it actually gone, or do you just don't think about it? I
         | have a quite loud tinnitus at 9 kHz but I still don't even
         | think about it for stretches of weeks and even months. But when
         | I'm made aware of it it's always there (even if there is loud
         | background noise)
        
       | Night_Thastus wrote:
       | I wish there was a cure for it. Unfortunately as a child my
       | father took me to semi-frequently to a night club he worked at,
       | and I had no hearing protection. I have had tinnitus ever since.
       | It varies in severity based on seemingly a lot of conditions
       | (orientation, physical activity, mood), but most of the it's not
       | too awful luckily.
       | 
       | Still, it sucks that we may be a more than my lifetime away from
       | really finding a solution.
        
       | coupdejarnac wrote:
       | A few years ago, I had an iOS app that did audio notch therapy
       | for tinnitus. Does the therapy actually work? For some people,
       | maybe. From what I remember, the research papers I read on the
       | subject indicated the therapy can help. I conducted a small study
       | with the audiology dept at a local university, but I didn't reach
       | any useful conclusion. In the end, I suspect notch therapy ends
       | up working similarly to masking therapy (using white noise or
       | other sound to cover up the tinnitus).
        
       | twangist wrote:
       | 1920 Hz in my case. I had tinnitus after I got rear-ended at a
       | stop light. Decades later, it still recurs once in a blue moon,
       | lasts for a mere 10-15 seconds then vanishes when I tell myself
       | repeatedly "nothing is playing 1920 Hz".
        
         | lisper wrote:
         | > 1920 Hz in my case
         | 
         | How do you measure that?
        
           | kadoban wrote:
           | You can just use a program that plays adjustable frequencies
           | and shift it up/down until it matches.
        
             | lisper wrote:
             | Ah.
             | 
             | My tinnitus frequency is higher than anything I can
             | actually hear so that doesn't work for me.
        
               | idontwantthis wrote:
               | How do you have tinnitus if you can't hear it?
        
               | LeifCarrotson wrote:
               | Go back to the old question of if a tree falls in a
               | forest, does it make a sound if no one hears it?
               | 
               | Tinnitus isn't caused by actual waves of air pressure on
               | the eardrum. We'd not call that tinnitus (unless it was
               | actually inescapable, eg. a perception of rushing blood
               | flow), that's just an annoying real-world sound.
               | 
               | Hearing is connected to eardrum vibrations by a
               | complicated system of the outer ear, eardrum, tiny
               | auditory bones, the fluid-filled cochlea, tiny hair cells
               | with sensory neurons, the auditory nerve, and eventually
               | the brain.
               | 
               | When all these work properly, the brain gets accurate
               | information about sound waves.
               | 
               | When those hair cells are damaged (or wherever the
               | stimulus arises) to send bogus information up the
               | auditory nerve, the audio perceived by the brain as a
               | result of that stimulus is not necessarily correlated to
               | any accurate frequency data that could make it through
               | that pathway.
        
               | Ankaios wrote:
               | You could have tinnitus at a frequency you can't hear if
               | the tinnitus arises downstream of auditory issues that
               | reduce hearing sensitivity.
               | 
               | For instance, if someone couldn't hear a certain
               | frequency because the corresponding hair cells in their
               | ears were damaged, they could still have tinnitus at that
               | frequency arising from parts of the brain that process
               | that frequency.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | eru wrote:
               | Hearing tinnitus seems to work according to different
               | rules than hearing outside sounds for lisper.
               | 
               | Since tinnitus uses different mechanics and pathways,
               | that seems plausible.
               | 
               | For comparison, think of a recently blinded person still
               | dreaming visually. Or think of phantom pain.
        
               | pastaguy1 wrote:
               | They can hear the tinnitus, but not real sounds at that
               | freq.
               | 
               | IANAD, is there any kind of "gain correction" theory for
               | tinnitus? ie, the brain notices your ear can't hear this
               | frequency very well, so it pumps up the volume ... maybe
               | too much.
               | 
               | That would fit this data point, at least.
               | 
               | Weirdly, maybe not so different than when a hearing aid
               | starts ringing.
        
               | edgyquant wrote:
               | Mine starts as a high pitch and then I can't hear
               | anything out of that ear for a good 10 seconds.
        
               | dehrmann wrote:
               | Can you match it to half or a quarter of the frequency?
        
               | dalmo3 wrote:
               | Not OP, but same problem. Interesting suggestion!
        
               | kadoban wrote:
               | Is there some kind of resonance or something that happens
               | at half/quarter that lets you identify it?
               | 
               | I experimented real quick and wasn't able to do a great
               | job estimating half of a frequency from playing with the
               | slider on the lower one. Wasn't _totally_ off, but
               | nothing magical seemed to happen when I got to half.
        
               | adzm wrote:
               | Can you tune a guitar? I can hear it when the frequencies
               | become small integer proportions like the octave (2x) and
               | the fifth
        
               | kadoban wrote:
               | I suppose I've never tried. Maybe it just requires some
               | practice.
        
               | adzm wrote:
               | You can actually hear the beat frequencies like tuning a
               | guitar. So intervals like the fifth or an octave are
               | definitely 'in tune' when you try it. Interestingly if
               | you play a pure sine in each ear with one slightly
               | detuned, your brain will also hear the beat frequencies
               | as if the waves were interfering despite each ear getting
               | separate pure signals! There was even an open source
               | program Gnaural for experimenting with this effect -
               | binaural beats.
        
               | dahart wrote:
               | I can't hear a beat frequency against my tinnitus tones,
               | and I really wish I could. (I've tuned my guitar with
               | beat frequencies for decades.) The tinnitus tones are
               | very elusive when I try to pin them down with a sine
               | wave, but I can get close by alternating a sine wave on
               | and off while I vary the frequency... the memory of the
               | tone from a second ago has been more reliable than trying
               | to hear if they're close when overlapping.
        
               | lisper wrote:
               | Interesting suggestion. But no, I don't think so, and I'm
               | having a really hard time describing why. It sounds like
               | a pure sine wave, but it's so high I have a hard time
               | relating it to any real auditory input.
               | 
               | Also, interestingly, since I started focusing on this it
               | has gotten less intense.
        
               | IIAOPSW wrote:
               | How high does your range of hearing go. We can at least
               | narrow it down to somewhere above that.
        
               | lisper wrote:
               | Just under 8kHz. The tinnitus frequency seems like its
               | about about a major fifth higher, so ~12kHz.
               | 
               | I also notice in general that it's much more pronounced
               | after I've been wearing earbuds, even if the volume is
               | turned way down.
        
               | IIAOPSW wrote:
               | Jeez you're range of hearing is capital F Fucked. Did you
               | go to school next to an airport and live backstage at a
               | heavy metal concert? No disrespect.
        
               | lisper wrote:
               | No, but I'm 58 years old. Hearing loss is just a Thing
               | That Happens sometimes.
        
               | IIAOPSW wrote:
               | Remind me to avoid getting old.
        
               | jacurtis wrote:
               | How can you hear something that you can not hear?
               | 
               | I'm not trying to be facetious, genuinely curious.
        
               | dahart wrote:
               | It's two different sources, and a subjective tinnitus
               | source is perceived but not "heard", if that makes sense.
               | You might be able to experience something perhaps
               | similar: many people can hear much higher frequencies
               | when the speaker is in contact with their skull than
               | through the air.
        
               | DougWebb wrote:
               | Hearing loss is a physical problem. Tinnitus, often, is a
               | signaling problem. The signal can represent a sound that
               | the physical sensors can't produce anymore.
        
               | lisper wrote:
               | It's a fair question, and it's hard to describe. What I
               | perceive is a very high pitched pure sine wave. When I
               | take a hearing test, my ability to hear real tones drops
               | off long before I can hear anything approaching the pitch
               | that I perceive. Does that make sense?
        
               | Fauntleroy wrote:
               | You're not actually "hearing" anything. For one, the
               | sound (usually) does not actually exist. In many cases
               | it's more like an inappropriate signal from a damaged
               | nerve or some of the teeny tiny "hairs" within the ear
               | that sense sounds.
        
               | kadoban wrote:
               | Oh wow, I did not consider that, interesting.
        
         | disantlor wrote:
         | I can relate to the last bit; I sometimes have (or notice)
         | tinnitus when going to bed. I try to think about what frequency
         | it is exactly and it seems like the direction attention to it
         | causes it to go away (or at least get _much_ more quiet)
        
         | mderazon wrote:
         | I have something similar. I got mine after my first COVID
         | infection. The infection was mild, but my sense of smell was
         | gone for a week and i was left with a tinnitus
        
         | yc-kraln wrote:
         | Really sorry to hear that.
         | 
         | When I worked for Daimler, I was surprised to learn that all of
         | their cars ship with something called "PRE-SAFE Sound" which,
         | when it detects that you might be in a crash (i.e. at the point
         | when the seatbelts are pre-tensioned), it plays a loud-ish
         | burst of white noise through all the speakers, triggering your
         | ears' automatic response which disconnects your ear drums. This
         | means that when the actual (very loud!) crash happens, your
         | hearing is saved. They developed this in the 90s when, after
         | the advent of airbags, they saw that most injuries from
         | moderate car crashes were hearing related. (Here's a video with
         | some cool detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTmLYY-Z2rc)
         | 
         | I always thought it was a huge shame that 1) this technology
         | isn't required/mandated for all cars and 2) Mercedes doesn't
         | advertise this more
        
           | walterbell wrote:
           | Could a phone accelerometer achieve comparable detection
           | response and play a warning sound?
        
           | kloch wrote:
           | The crash itself isn't usually that loud but airbag
           | deployment can be 170 db which is very dangerous to hearing.
        
       | IIAOPSW wrote:
       | That 20khz one tracks for me. Sometimes if I over caffeinate I
       | get that. I think the neurological explanation is right. Its as
       | if certain brainwaves are leaking into the region meant to
       | represent sound waves.
        
       | concerned_ wrote:
       | Unfortunately, rather than tinnitus I have misophonia, and I can
       | hear ice melting. No treatment or cure. But I would bet at least
       | some cases of subjective tinnitus are actually people who have
       | super hearing abilities.
        
         | musesum wrote:
         | well, I used to have super hearing. Had a hard time being
         | around CRT displays because the flyback transformers were
         | really really loud. Now, with age, I get a phantom limb tone of
         | 16KHz. [1]
         | 
         | Coincidentally, the peak notch in the OP was the 1st
         | subharmonic of that.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_transformer
        
           | eps wrote:
           | This is very common though, isn't it? Every child can hear a
           | tube TV running when muted. Dog whistles too and all. And
           | that's not even at the top of kids hearing range.
        
           | TT-392 wrote:
           | Does not being able to be around CRT displays because of the
           | noise make qualify one as having super hearing? Pretty sure a
           | good percentage of the population have that problem
        
             | musesum wrote:
             | Was tested while attending an electronic music class.
             | Professor displayed everyone's result, so we could compare.
             | His chart was the worst, as a cautionary tale. Too many
             | live performance in front of the PA.
        
         | eps wrote:
         | By chance - not ice cubes in a glass of water making a hissing
         | sound?
        
           | concerned_ wrote:
           | No the slight crackling. Also even though I live in a
           | detached house, I hear my neighbors morning alarms going off.
           | One time I had to walk into the warehouse of a local
           | newspaper because they bought new forklifts that made a high
           | pitch sound when they were in reverse, and the guys riding
           | the forklifts had ear protection and it was vibrating the
           | windows of my apt a half mile away. They turned the sound off
           | only after weeks of calling the police.
           | 
           | I used to play in a symphony orchestra as a professional and
           | I suspect that studying my whole life to listen to a pin drop
           | has led me into this place.
        
       | provenance wrote:
       | Tinnitus can be close to a pure sine wave at one freq or can be a
       | wide band whooshing or noise, or many other variations of timbres
       | with their own freq ranges
       | 
       | I don't play or enjoy music anymore, no more power tools, etc
       | 
       | Protect your ears
        
         | 1letterunixname wrote:
         | Absolutely. If you go out to a bar, nightclub, or concert:
         | bring good earplugs always.
         | 
         | For using power tools, always protect ears, eyes, lungs, and
         | anything else you want to keep.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | Anecdotally I've noticed that music at concerts and bars is
           | not as loud as it was in the 1980s. I went to a Rolling
           | Stones concert in the late 1980s and was practially deaf for
           | several hours afterwards. Saw the Who like 10 years ago and
           | it wasn't close to painfully loud. Don't see near as much
           | live music in bars as I used to but it also seems to be
           | turned down compared to what used to be done.
        
             | albert_e wrote:
             | I believe you, obviously. (I dont go to concerts myself,
             | but pretty sure have tinnitus and misophonia)
             | 
             | But on a lighter note this _sounds_ like a setup for a joke
             | that involves hearing loss from earlier experiences
             | resulting in your hearing at less and less volume as time
             | progresses.
        
               | spiralx wrote:
               | This is exactly what I suspect is the problem with a lot
               | of sound engineers, where over-loud top-end frequencies
               | damage their ability to hear those sounds, leading to an
               | escalating increase in the volume of those frequencies.
               | I've been to venues where the top-end is literally
               | painful to the point of having to leave, and I'm always
               | baffled that nobody running the place seems to notice or
               | care.
               | 
               | Saying that some venues do cheap out by over-loading the
               | top-end to seem "loud" instead of spending more money on
               | more expensive low- and mid-range speakers.
        
             | glandium wrote:
             | Anecdotally, I've had tinnitus for as long as I can
             | remember, but I never really noticed until I had a
             | permanent loud whistling sound in my ears after a concert
             | in a smallish venue in Japan in the early 2000s, that
             | thankfully dissipated after a few days. But it made me
             | realize that, the residual "sound" remaining after that, I
             | was actually hearing it before too.
        
           | BitwiseFool wrote:
           | I know I'm not the target market for bars and nightclubs but
           | I've always hated just how loud the DJ's play the music. What
           | is the point of going to a social atmosphere when you can
           | barely even talk to someone without shouting? Who actually
           | enjoys ear splitting music?
        
             | marssaxman wrote:
             | It depends on the venue and the event, but for many people,
             | music and dancing are the point of the experience, more
             | than the social atmosphere. DJs of course are there
             | _entirely_ to play music and facilitate dancing, and don 't
             | really need to care how hard it is to have a conversation
             | in the process.
             | 
             | When people like the music, it tends to sound better to
             | them when it's played a little louder; when a DJ wants to
             | raise the energy level, pushing the volume up a little is
             | one way to do that. Repeat this enough times through the
             | course of an evening and you end up with the PA really
             | cranked. (Many bars install limiters on the sound system,
             | to keep over-enthusiastic DJs in line...) If you walk in
             | from the street, the ruckus might sound deafening - but if
             | you've been there dancing for an hour or two, your ears
             | will likely have adjusted along the way, and it won't feel
             | so extreme.
             | 
             | Another reason for loud music is that loud bass _feels_
             | really good. If you enjoy dancing, that deep rumble just
             | gets in your bones and makes you want to move. It can be
             | kind of a spiritual experience to let yourself get
             | overwhelmed and swept away by the music, feeling and moving
             | in the moment, not thinking so much. A good, well-tuned
             | sound system in the hands of someone who cares about sound
             | quality can give you this experience without the  "ear
             | splitting" sensation.
             | 
             | Even if the bar has no dance floor, loud music can help
             | create a sense of intimacy. Drowning out all the other
             | conversations means other people can't listen in on yours,
             | and forcing you to lean in and pay close attention to the
             | person you're speaking with might help spark a connection
             | of the sort many people go out looking for.
        
               | srcreigh wrote:
               | There's a myth that loud sub bass frequencies doesn't
               | cause as much damage as loud high pitch frequencies.
               | Haven't looked into whether it's true or not yet.
        
             | KineticLensman wrote:
             | It's not just bars and pubs, but restaurants too. As
             | someone who wears hearing aids, the loud music makes meals
             | out really socially awkward, since you can't hear
             | conversations across or down the table. It's not helped by
             | the lack of fabrics and other acoustic deadeners,
             | presumably because they are hard to clean.
        
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