[HN Gopher] How To Get Started In Soldering
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How To Get Started In Soldering
Author : evo_9
Score : 243 points
Date : 2023-04-10 12:58 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.popularmechanics.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.popularmechanics.com)
| mcshicks wrote:
| I found the eevblog tutorial videos very helpful in setting up my
| office for soldering and getting comfortable doing through hole
| soldering, connecting wires etc.
|
| Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5Sb21qbpEQ Part 2
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYz5nIHH0iY
|
| Part 3 is surface mount which I don't do much. A friend I had who
| is a skilled assembler turned me on to chipquik flux and kapton
| tape to hold down the parts and that helped immensely
| wintermutestwin wrote:
| No mention of toxicity of the fumes? No mention of needing a 3rd
| hand for many soldering you will want to do?
| thewebcount wrote:
| Am I missing something? The article says:
|
| > As you're applying heat with your soldering iron, it's
| important to have the metal tip heating both the pad and the
| solder that's going onto it--note the location where I'm placing
| the iron.
|
| But there's no picture to "note the location where I'm placing
| the iron" in? Was this article written somewhere else and
| repurposed and they missed a picture?
| agumonkey wrote:
| Soldering taught me how physical engineering and chemistry were
| oh so subtle. And how even simple circuits we rely on daily are
| kinda work of art.
| aequitas wrote:
| If you ever get the chance, solder under a (say 40x) stereo
| microscope. The soldering station at my internship was this kind
| of setup and it literally gave me a whole new perspective on
| soldering. I got to see exactly how the flux and solder flow, how
| the heat spreads through the material and at what moment the heat
| was too high that it would melt or release the tiniest coper
| traces on the board. Also how well solder sticks and flows once
| everything is properly heated.
| buescher wrote:
| It's fun, too! Even through-hole, where you really don't need a
| 'scope, is oddly satisfying when you can see every detail.
| dustinsterk wrote:
| I would recommend starting with a kit so that you also get the
| benefit of feeling like you created something valuable as your
| practice/learn. Something like this is great for the price!
| https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08X13KY6S
| TurkishPoptart wrote:
| have you used this one? I'd like to buy it, I'd just want to
| hear that someone used this successfully.
| dustinsterk wrote:
| Yes, my son built is a few weeks ago, no issues and works
| great!
| TurkishPoptart wrote:
| can you recommend any starter soldering iron to go with it?
| I guess all we would need is a starter solder iron and some
| solder to complete the clock. Looks like fun!
| bobsmooth wrote:
| I use it as a clock for my workbench and power it from a USB
| port. Fun little kit.
| Yhippa wrote:
| The first -- and only -- time I ever soldered was on a job
| interview! The company was making gastric pacemakers and wanted
| to see if I could do it. One of my favorite job interviews for
| some reason. I have a tough time with the "code in front of the
| interviewer"-style interviews but this was actually kind of fun.
|
| That said, I don't feel like I've had the need to bust one out
| since then. I'm sure there are useful times for it, but for me, I
| typically replace the item or pay someone to fix it and move on
| with my day.
| llamataboot wrote:
| My hands simply shake too much and always have to do detailed
| soldering work - my kingdom for a simple and inexpensive
| automatic solderer!
| bambax wrote:
| > _just be careful not to overspend on your first iron. I first
| learned how to solder on an ultra-cheap hardware-store unit, and
| you should, too_
|
| I beg to differ.
|
| I used to suck at soldering, and while I'm still no expert,
| swapping my EUR20 basic soldering iron for a serious Weller unit
| (starting at EUR150) changed everything. The Weller heats up
| almost instantly, goes up as high as you want, and stays at a
| constant temperature.
|
| When using bad tools you don't know if it's you or the tools that
| are bad, and the path to improvement is unclear.
| dusted wrote:
| I have to agree, when I was 7 or 8 I started out with a "pen"
| and it sucked, I got a WE-WHS40 for my 10 year birthday, now
| I'm 37, and.. I'm still using that one.. The transformer inside
| broke lose after I dropped it.. but.. for everything small-ish,
| it's whate I still use to this day.. I have a butane powered
| cheap chinese iron (that will eat away at the tip at each use,
| and leak itself empty within a week from filling it) for
| heavier connections.. Those two together cover everything I do.
|
| One thing though.. I disagree with wet sponge, they're annoying
| and flimsy.. A brass sponge is so much nicer in my opinion.
| agumonkey wrote:
| Yes, "too cheap" is bad for newbies. You need something at
| least average or you'll struggle progressing.
|
| Same thing happened when I learned bass. I was unable to
| achieve anything after 2 years on a shovel. I then tried a
| squier special edition.. suddenly everything was getting out.
| Still a newb but the tool gave me direction on where to work to
| improve with a lot less effort. I was shocked.
| K7PJP wrote:
| > Same thing happened when I learned bass.
|
| I didn't enjoy playing until I swapped out the strings on my
| Ibanez with some Rotosounds. The tonal change was
| significant.
| johnwalkr wrote:
| I 100% agree, the iron linked in the article is actually OK,
| but overpriced for what it is. The problem is that if you take
| the advice as written and go to Home Depot, you will end up
| with a frustrating piece of garbage and give up the hobby
| before long.
|
| But fortunately today there are great, cheap tools. The $35
| pinecil and T12 clones (as little as $25 if you can wait on
| shipping) are as good as $150 units from 10 years ago. I have a
| Hakko 888 and I haven't used it in years because a pinecil in
| my desk drawer is so much more convenient. It has enough juice
| for almost anything you'd find linked on hackernews or
| hackaday, and when I want to use it I just move a usb-c
| charging cable from my laptop to it for a while.
| microtherion wrote:
| I agree, but it makes sense to qualify what features of "good"
| tools are important for beginners. Temperature control is very
| important, and you should probably have one even in your first
| soldering iron. Something like hot air rework, on the other
| hand, is an advanced feature that you can defer until later.
|
| Another not overly expensive tool I wish I'd known about as a
| beginner is a heated solder vacuum pump, dispensing with the
| need to juggle soldering iron and a non-heated vacuum.
| camtarn wrote:
| > heated solder vacuum pump
|
| Huh, I had no idea those were even a thing! Thanks for the
| recommendation.
| amelius wrote:
| You should also look into low melting point soldering
| alloys, for desoldering work.
| tengbretson wrote:
| Definitely skip the hardware store soldering irons, but that
| doesn't mean you have to spend a ton. I got a knockoff Hakko
| 936 for like $20 and I have no complaints.
| leviathant wrote:
| Adding to the chorus - I spent $100 on a Hakko in my 30s and
| upon using it, immediately felt a sizable pang of regret at how
| much time I'd wasted with my $20 iron over the years. It felt
| like I must have been doing something wrong, but as soon as I
| had a decent iron, it's like all the videos I'd watched
| suddenly made sense.
| noworld wrote:
| I'd say there's a world of difference between a $20 cheap
| iron and a $50 adjustable temperature station, but once I got
| to the $50 level I find I can do everything I need to do
| (including SMD).
| varispeed wrote:
| Same. When I started to take my hobby seriously I was
| basically replacing a "cheap" soldering iron every couple of
| months and tips would have lasted me a couple of week.
|
| When I done the maths, it has become quite expensive.
|
| So that's when I decided to buy a Hakko FX-951 and I couldn't
| have been happier. It makes a huge difference between the
| cheap ones.
|
| It's been working well for over 3 years now, no issues. Just
| make sure to use original tips. I had some knock offs and
| some have burned off the same day I started using them.
| Original tips last ages.
|
| Don't get me wrong - the cheap ones will work and are great
| if you need to solder something from time to time. But if you
| plan to do some serious amount of soldering, don't bother
| with cheap tools.
| piva00 wrote:
| Same here, had a cheapo soldering iron thinking I didn't need
| much to start, fucked up quite a few outboards I needed to
| add header pins to. Bought a digital Weller iron and never
| had a hiccup with my soldering since then.
|
| I spent more destroying parts than I would have just buying
| the Weller in the first place, lesson learned.
| jjoonathan wrote:
| Yep, ditto, except my realization came from a JBC encounter
| at work. I had to learn this meta lesson several times the
| hard way, because media portrayals lie and I had nobody to
| tell me different. Learn Good Tools ->
| Learn Bad Tools
|
| is easy Learn Bad Tools -> Learn Good Tools
|
| is hard. Learning has nonlinear difficulty in the number of
| variables and bad tools introduce distraction variables.
| Unless you literally can't afford the good tools, "survey
| professionals and then buy once cry once" is almost always
| the right approach.
| sidfthec wrote:
| As always, it depends. If I bought the best (or even pretty
| good) model tool for every hobby I start, I'd be broke. Not
| every tool needs to be the best.
| mwbajor wrote:
| Cheap isn't bad in this case because of the iron: it gets hot
| and melts solder. Many people including myself learned on $10
| radio shack irons.
|
| What people like adam savage are overlooking in their
| explanation is details, in this case, cheap irons dont have the
| selection of tips you need. To most people "cheap soldering
| iron" is what you get at home depot now which has a tip the
| width of a pencil, hardly suitable for component soldering.
|
| Also, here is another tip, adjustable temperature is not
| needed, its a useless feature. You want to get heat into a
| component and off. You'll fry a component more quickly if you
| heat it up a million times at a lower temperature setting
| trying to solder that pulldown resistor to the huge ground
| plane. In the end, your temperature setting will always be at
| maximum and you'll just need to hit it quick with the iron: on
| and off.
|
| Along those lines, a the perfect iron has no temperature
| setting but can sink alot of heat into a component. Metcals are
| 40W or 80W in power and are used extensively to solder 0402 and
| below. The tips come in different heat settings but are really
| meant for leaded vs. non-leaded solder which flow at different
| temps. Overkill? no, again, get the heat in, flow the solder
| and off as quick as possible even when you are soldering to a
| plane.
| bsder wrote:
| Agreed. There is a _huge_ difference learning to solder SMDs
| with a Metcal or Thermaltronics system vs a Weller or Hakko
| system.
|
| I cry for all the time I wasted soldering before finally
| sucking it up and getting a Metcal.
| HopenHeyHi wrote:
| Look if I can't flash my own IronOS firmware unto my USB-C
| powered TS100 iron what is even the point? What am I, a farmer?
|
| https://github.com/Ralim/IronOS
|
| I didn't spend hours watching YouTube reviews comparing
| soldering irons for nothing. This is $70 well spent.
|
| In case anybody thinks I am being sarcastic, I am actually not.
| Look into it, worth it.
| whstl wrote:
| I agree.
|
| I don't personally think it's necessary to go up to EUR150, but
| a low-quality entry-level soldering iron will cause a lot of
| problems, and you'll be blaming yourself for the lack of
| progress. I learned on a crappy one and always thought I
| sucked. On university I used one that was alright and it was
| night and day.
|
| It is important that the soldering iron provides the correct
| amount of heat, and with entry-level irons it's always a
| gamble, in my experience.
|
| On the other hand, spending the EUR150 from the start will save
| you a lot of time testing irons.
| jjoonathan wrote:
| Those $130-$150 Aixun branded JBC clones on aliexpress make a
| compelling argument for the price point IMO.
| MrBuxley wrote:
| I wish I'd known this years ago. When I was about 16, I tried
| my hand at soldering. I had little idea of what I was doing but
| really tried for several weeks. Nothing worked. I thought all
| this time it was just me.
|
| I mean, it could just be me, but I haven't picked up a
| soldering iron for many years because of that experience. I
| might invest good iron and give it a shot again.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| You ought to. A HAKKO (and decent, thin solder) made all the
| difference in the world when I started back into the hobby.
| fullstop wrote:
| Similar story, I went from a $20 no-name iron to a Hakko FX
| unit and it's night and day.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Same, but I'll name drop: it was from a shitty Radio Shack
| pencil iron to the HAKKO.
| myself248 wrote:
| Agreed. Now that the Pinecil exists, the logic of using
| anything cheaper/worse is absolutely daft. It's $25, there's no
| excuse for the open-loop garbage anymore.
| m463 wrote:
| I also wonder about the new breed of smart irons. ts-100,
| pinecil are microprocessor controlled irons and aren't
| expensive.
| ticklemyelmo wrote:
| They did a poor job of qualifying "cheap". They link to a $50
| Harbor Freight unit, which is a proper temperature controlled
| soldering station. It should certainly be made clear that a $20
| wand with no temp control is right out.
| CarVac wrote:
| I 100% agree.
|
| They say "a good craftsman doesn't blame his tools" but when
| you start out you need good tools.
|
| A non-temperature-controlled soldering iron is a huge
| impediment to learning because the temperature varies with
| usage and so its behavior is hard to predict for a new
| solderer.
|
| Even between temperature-controlled ones there can be a large
| difference in ability to conduct heat into a part: my Pinecil
| takes far longer than my Weller (I recommend the WE1010) to
| heat a joint to the point where solder will melt. (the Pinecil
| is still nice to have as a mobile soldering setup)
|
| More heating duration results in more part damage: overheated
| ICs and traces popping off the PCB.
| bluefirebrand wrote:
| > They say "a good craftsman doesn't blame his tools" but
| when you start out you need good tools.
|
| Yeah, it's important to realize that saying applied to good
| craftsmen, not novice craftsmen.
| CarVac wrote:
| And intentionally choosing not to blame your tools doesn't
| transform you into a good craftsman, either.
| convolvatron wrote:
| I'm a pretty good craftsman, and if the angle grinder I'm
| working needs to be held 'just so' to keep it running,
| weighs twice what my other ones do, and reeks of ozone -
| I have absolutely no problem saying 'screw this thing'
| and throwing in the trash.
|
| never understood that aphorism
| bluefirebrand wrote:
| I think people take it to mean "A good craftsman should
| be able to make excellent work even with poor tools"
|
| But maybe it means "a good craftsman should have the
| experience to know not to work with poor tools, and if
| they do work with poor tools and the outcome is bad, it's
| their own fault for not finding better tools, not the
| tools fault for being poor"
|
| As in, don't blame your tools, you're the one who chose
| them. And you're always free to choose better tools.
| TylerE wrote:
| Don't blame tools, but it's okay to blame tool shaped
| objects.
| snapetom wrote:
| Kinda of like the old Chris Berman commercial, "There's no
| such thing as a stupid question, just stupid people asking
| questions."
| petsfed wrote:
| I love the $1400+ solder station I use at work. If I could have
| one at home, I totally would. Solder tweezers and a heated
| solder vacuum are _very_ useful.
|
| But I am pretty handy with the $130 Hakko I got from adafruit
| back when I got one for home use. I soldered for a long time
| with a cheapy $40 Weller I got off of amazon, although I won't
| go back to it any time soon. Getting a brass sponge and tip
| tinner really made that thing viable as a daily driver though.
|
| I think that's the difference he was trying to illustrate: if
| you can't do a basic through-hole board with a 40W pen-style
| iron from the hardware store, it ain't the tool.
| sulam wrote:
| What brand is your station at work?
| petsfed wrote:
| It's a Weller.
|
| I used to work at a place that had the Weller WXR3003N.
| $3360 of pure joy. The one I work with now is a Weller
| WX2021N, which Newark has for $1400.
|
| The tool quality on either is phenomenal, but definitely
| not necessary for learning on.
|
| Some control over temperature, peak temperature hot enough
| to melt lead-free solder are really all you need to learn
| with. I don't want to be a neo-luddite, but you end up
| learning a lot of tricks with a sub-par iron that I rarely
| have to use with the high-end tool, but I'm glad I know.
| For instance, its rare with the high-end tools that I have
| to glob a bunch of solder onto a joint during rework, but I
| had to do that all the time with the cheap tool. But now,
| if I just can't get a joint hot enough to melt, I know that
| that is an option.
| i-use-nixos-btw wrote:
| Completely agree.
|
| The lesson I learned was to not buy generic brand stuff from
| Amazon. The one I have is dreadful. The temperature dial is
| meaningless, the grip gets hot with the iron, and the tips that
| come with it* are absolutely awful. Even at low soldering
| temperatures they can't take the heat, and at this point all of
| them have their cracked, chipped, or have otherwise become
| completely blunt.
|
| But hey I got a nice generic tool bag full of wires that don't
| conduct, insulation tape that doesn't insulate, tiny
| screwdrivers, blunt snips, and "lead-free" solder that
| absolutely has lead in it.
|
| * and it seems to be a fitting that nothing else will fit apart
| from the rubbish tips that come with a thousand other almost-
| identical generic soldering irons you can get from Amazon.
| retrac wrote:
| Agreed. A cheap 40 watt soldering iron is really meant for
| touching up plumbing. And a cheap 10 watt one will cool down
| too quickly.
|
| Electronics are heat sensitive. A reliable solder joint needs
| to heat quickly, flux stripping off any oxidized layers,
| everything melted, before the heat goes up the lead and fries
| the component.
|
| This means you want an iron that is temperature controlled, and
| heavy enough it has some thermal mass so it doesn't cool
| quickly.
|
| I've worked with cheap irons after getting used to my $60
| temperature controlled iron, and yes you can use them, but it
| requires more experience, skill and care to do well, which in
| practice is equivalent to saying less reliable results.
| toss1 wrote:
| Hard Agree. Plus, generalize this to all tasks and sports.
|
| Bad equipment will give you bad habits right from the start.
| This does not mean that you should buy the top equipment to
| begin at anything, but it does mean that you should find out
| from some knowledgeable people what is the minimum you need so
| you won't be unnecessarily fighting the equipment and learning
| bad habits (basically hacky workarounds to the equipment's
| flaws) that you'll later struggle to unlearn.
|
| For some sports or tasks, it's just solid mid-grade equipment,
| sometimes it's the lower end of the top-grade stuff.
|
| Also, even if funds do not limit you, don't start out with the
| absolute top-level gear. Better to get a solid start, then grow
| until your skills let you see which aspects of your mid-grade
| gear start limiting you, _then_ use that info to buy the top
| level gear that is actually best suited for you.
| nibbleshifter wrote:
| There's an exception, IMO, for safety critical items in
| sports.
|
| I've seen so many people show up at climbing walls with cheap
| carabiners from amazon/etc that aren't rated for climbing,
| but when you view the listing all the images show climbing.
| nibbleshifter wrote:
| Its the rule supposedly came up with by Adam Savage - buy cheap
| tools, use em til you break em, then replace the ones you break
| with expensive, good tools.
|
| The _idea_ of that rule is so new makers can work out what
| tools they actually are using, so they don 't waste a shitload
| of money.
|
| In practice? Some tools are just worth spending the money on
| upfront, inferior tools will often lead to frustration and
| failure early on.
|
| The problem is people think Adams rule just applies everywhere,
| because he is famous etc.
|
| I actually have a draft blog post on this exact topic that I'm
| not finished, with examples from my own experiences.
| 7speter wrote:
| The article writer talks about his harbor freight iron.
| Harbor freight is the perfect place to buy a first <insert
| tool> to see if youre gonna use it enough to justify a higher
| quality version of said tool. What isn't all that good of a
| place to get a first tool is amazon, because its either cheap
| chinese crap or potentially counterfeit crap.
| gav wrote:
| I also think he's talking about tools where inferior means
| build quality vs. performance. You can go buy a bunch of
| cheap wrenches from Harbor Freight and they'll be just fine
| compared to Snap-On.
|
| > Quality is an issue, true. But for beginning makers there
| is often no cheaper alternative. Back in the day I'd "test
| buy" a tool from HFT and then if it was useful I'd invest in
| a more substantial version. Also browsing their aisles is a
| singular pleasure.
| https://twitter.com/donttrythis/status/941149124497305600
| Baeocystin wrote:
| Also worth noting that often the best approach to take is
| that the tool itself is a consumable. $19 Harbor Freight
| grinders won't last as long as $150+ ones, but the ~7 you
| can buy for the same price will outlast even the most
| expensive one several times over!
| dandelany wrote:
| Assuming you place no value on your own time &
| frustration...
| Baeocystin wrote:
| FWIW, I learned this approach while working in the trades
| as a welder. You have consumables in stock and ready to
| go, and that includes extra grinders. Some tools you do
| take the time and effort to really take care of, of
| course, but a lot more than you might think are in the
| cattle not pet category of things.
| crimsontech wrote:
| Similar for professional kitchens. They use cheap pots,
| pans, knives, etc. then replace them when needed. No
| special Damascus steel knives and copper ply pans, just
| functional cost effective easy to replace stuff.
| moonchrome wrote:
| I'm trying to learn welding/metal working so I can
| combine it with woodworking for furniture making. Meaning
| I know shit about tools compared to a professional.
|
| But I've bought two grinders and have an ancient cheap
| one from father in-law. My cheap Metabo is relatively
| quiet and smooth. Cheap Lidl one is loud and jerky.
| Ancient one I've just thrown away at how bad it was to
| use. Recently I had to grind some tubing for > hour and
| my wrists felt it even with the Metabo entry level.
| Supposedly the pro versions have antivibration, better
| balanced, speed control, etc.
|
| My point being if I was using this 5 days a week for >1h
| I'd invest in ease of use/comfort/safety - no ? I'd
| probably have a few throwaway ones for backup.
| Baeocystin wrote:
| My suggestions-
|
| First, buy a separate handle that you like the feel of.
| They're dirt simple to swap around between tools. If
| you're in a large shop, make sure it stays in your
| lockbox overnight so that it doesn't grow feet.
|
| Second, although honestly more important, make sure you
| are using the right wheel for the job, with the right
| pressure (lighter than almost everything thinks), and
| stay focused on using either the edge or the face,
| depending on type. This will keep things smoother, slow
| disc changes, and improve safety by reducing the risk of
| disc shatter. Detailed explanation:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n0TSF1i5os&t=162s
|
| Hope that helps.
|
| [edit]- When it comes to welding, I strongly recommend
| learning stick first, even before MIG. It gives you much
| better practice learning how to control the puddle
| without spewing metal everywhere. Bonus points in that it
| is also very inexpensive, and the welds themselves are
| usually stronger than MIG. Only disadvantage is speed,
| but for the types of projects you mentioned, that's not
| much of an issue. This guy's channel is great:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMtqDWUpJds
| nibbleshifter wrote:
| Yeah, the context is important.
|
| Unfortunately the context went missing as soon as the
| "rule" started making it around hacker/maker internet.
| fsckboy wrote:
| > _In practice? Some tools are just worth spending the money
| on upfront, inferior tools will often lead to frustration and
| failure early on._
|
| no, you can't undermine the idea with this trick. For example
| (grabbing examples from other comments in this thread), while
| an expensive soldering iron might be much better than a cheap
| one, there is no way you know before you start whether you're
| going to be soldering a lot.
|
| I know how to solder, I've soldered a lot since I was about
| 13, and I can solder just fine with a crappy soldering iron
| (just like good pizza makers can use a primitive wood fired
| oven) but after I learned to wire-wrap, I put down my
| soldering iron almost for good... and does wire-wrapping even
| exist any more? If I wanted to take it up again, I'd find
| antique wirewrapping tools before I'd torture myself with
| soldering anything. All of which is my way to say, if I can't
| predict how much soldering I'm going to do, then no beginner
| can predict whether an expensive soldering iron is what they
| need or not.
|
| Maybe if you went out and geared up with the most expensive
| technical mountain climbing gear, you could climb Everest on
| your first try, and you could then make the case that had you
| bought the cheap stuff you would have been discouraged by
| frostbite. But that's just not a good plan.
| detaro wrote:
| There is a vast difference between "went out and geared up
| with the most expensive" and "spend ~$30 more to go from
| cheap crap to something baseline competent" (e.g. while the
| article author says "ultra-cheap" about his linked choice,
| it's actually more in that range). And nowadays its quite
| easy to figure out if that's the case for what you are
| planning to buy, as long as it is a somewhat mainstream
| topic. And then make a somewhat informed choice.
|
| Irons are also not really getting used up, so if you truly
| follow the "replace if it breaks" rule you're potentially
| using crap a loooong time.
| galleywest200 wrote:
| In this case of soldering I agree, as the tool really does make
| it easier. Generally for most hobbies I tell people to buy the
| "cheapest" they can find and if they use it until it breaks
| then buy the most expensive one you can afford.
| onceiwasthere wrote:
| It's kind of interesting how handling this well varies from
| hobby to hobby and is tricky to balance from person to
| person. There's the argument that you don't want to spend too
| much until you get a feel for how interested you are but
| there's also the effect of quality of tools on
| enjoyment/annoyance/learning curve that has a big effect on
| interest a lot of the time. I guess, you're always just gonna
| wanna google around to get a better idea, but sometimes
| there's not great googleable info.
| whstl wrote:
| I think this might work for some subset of hobbies (can't
| think of any), but anything that requires some learning or
| training to improve, crappy tools will hold your progress
| back and might cause you to drop out. From ping pong balls to
| guitars...
| johnwalkr wrote:
| For working on cars, the standard advice is to buy a basic
| wrench and socket set from harbour freight, any specialty
| (non electrical) tools from there as you need them, and
| then upgrade the few things that end up not being adequate.
| replygirl wrote:
| this is fantastic advice for creative outlets, cottage
| crafts, and low-impact outdoor activities. but it's dangerous
| in hobbies like soldering or sports, where tools can
| seriously impact the safety of the operator, or render the
| operator's work dysfunctional
| Steltek wrote:
| There are pretty good cheap soldering irons these days too. My
| $35 Pinecil is pretty fun to use.
| stavros wrote:
| Agreed, the Pinecil is amazing. Get it as your first (and
| probably only) soldering iron.
| usrusr wrote:
| Similar story: went from a series of bad cheap irons to a
| good cheap iron and it was like night and day.
|
| I still struggle occasionally, but that's when connecting
| enameled copper to 1.27 mm crenellated edge connectors, and
| in my book that's a task where "struggling" isn't actually
| that bad.
| diablerouge wrote:
| I've had a $100 Weller and a $25 Yihua soldering station and
| found them pretty comparable to each-other.
|
| What's most important is that you get an electronics
| soldering _station_ of some type and not a basic
| plumbing/electricians iron that is just a pen on a cord.
| Those are extremely frustrating for working on a PCB.
| squarefoot wrote:
| Seconded. I have two Weller TCPs and a while ago decided to
| buy the Pinecil just as a way to support the folks at Pine64.
| Well, it turned out it's a really good iron, and I use it
| along the Wellers without noticing any difference.
| [deleted]
| gaze wrote:
| What people don't understand is that Hakko and Weller ARE the
| low end units. The good units are made by JBC, Pace, and
| Metcal.
| riceart wrote:
| Hakko is not exclusively low end. They're used in plenty of
| manufacturing plants. They're not selling their $30k rework
| systems to hobbyists.
| johnwalkr wrote:
| You could say they are medium range units (especially since
| the models usually recommended are not the very lowest end
| models of those brands), but the gap between a cheapo from
| the hardware store and a Hakko is like 10x bigger than the
| gap from Hakko to the highest end model for a professional
| PCB assembler. Incidentally I work in aerospace and I rarely
| see anything in lab besides Hakko 800 series, 900 series, or
| 200 series (rework station).
| dale_glass wrote:
| Hakko is also resting on their laurels.
|
| Hakko is what everyone recommends but I have no idea why.
| It's awful stuff with a design from the 80s. The UI is awful
| and inscrutable without the manual, the tech is long
| obsolete.
|
| Get a TS80 or something else that's actually modern -- it has
| excellent temperature control with a tightly integrated
| thermocouple like one of the expensive Hakkos (FX951), but
| costs less and actually displays stuff in readable English.
| It also has nice features like using an accelerometer to
| sense its own orientation and turn itself off if you leave it
| lying around, instead of burning a hole through your desk.
| Kirby64 wrote:
| Every company besides the chinese companies like Pine,
| Miniware have the same stratification of soldering
| equipment.
|
| Hakko 888 is cheap, and has old style carts. Weller has a
| similar offering. For the $300-range you get the 'proper'
| thermocouple-integrated tips like the FX951, and Weller
| likewise has a similar offering. JBC is a premium brand so
| they don't have low-end stuff, but their pricing isn't too
| far out of that range ($500ish?).
|
| I agree the Hakko 888 is an outdated recommendation, but
| it's not really like their company strategy is just
| outdated. They're business-first, which desires having a
| full soldering station... not a portable thing like the
| Miniware/Pine stuff.
| dale_glass wrote:
| What I mean is that the FX951 is a bad offering in modern
| times. I mean, a 7 segment display and looking up codes
| in a manual in 2023? Come on! A proper display is a tiny
| fraction of the cost of any Hakko product, and would be
| far more pleasant to use.
|
| They're just resting on their laurels. There's cheaper
| and less known brands that make far better products
| because they take advantage of things like decent micro-
| controllers, displays and accelerometers that have
| existed for decades now.
| gaze wrote:
| yeah my god. These Chinese soldering stations that can
| accept JBC cartridges are _absolutely_ the way to go these
| days. The TS80 is not particularly ergonomic, but the
| thermal regulation and variety of tips just absolutely
| eclipse the 888 at a fraction of the cost. I see these
| units from SUGON and JABE which have the separate base
| station and JBC-like handpiece. Those seem like the ticket.
| mwbajor wrote:
| The new wellers are very good. I have a weller WE101, a
| Weller Curie-point iron from the mid 2000s and a Metcal 5200.
| I also have a Metcal rework station at work which was
| actually cheap for a metcal rework station at just under
| $10K. The rework station came with almost all of the screws
| rattling around the preheater and the heating profile menu is
| so convoluted its barely usable. The new 5200 I have
| spontaneously goes into a calibration menu that I cant find
| documentation on. The older metcals we have a re more rugged
| although the older 500 series doesn't actually turn off the
| main power supply when you flip the on/off switch to "off"
| (look at the schematic online if you don't believe me) only
| the regulators turn off. The WE101 is rock solid although
| most people that solder alot don't use temperature
| adjustment, but I keep it around in case I ever do need it.
|
| Point is, any weirdness with the metcals are made up for with
| their selection of tips and the heating speed even when
| soldering components to chassis' or ground planes.
|
| If you can find a used metcal, even if its not working, you
| can fix them up easily and they are worth the $200 bucks even
| for a broken one on Ebay.
| WalterBright wrote:
| Same here. I failed at soldering with my cheap iron, and there
| was nobody to show me what was going wrong. When I got a job
| assembling circuit boards, they provided a Weller, and suddenly
| I was able to make perfect joints every time.
| lukego wrote:
| see also whitequark's soldering mistakes troubleshooting guide:
|
| - beginner: not using flux
|
| - intermediate: not using enough flux
|
| - advanced: not using the right flux
|
| and visually: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfIwHuGzUEk
| pcurve wrote:
| Very satisfying to watch. Good soldering job feels so good!
| severino wrote:
| After seeing the video, I wonder if someone could recommend
| some flux like the one shown there, the one that looks like a
| yellow-orange paste. Just so I don't end up "not using the
| right flux" ;)
| lukego wrote:
| My $0.02 is to choose name-brand solder wire (e.g.
| Kester/Multicore/ChipQuik) with "RA" or "RMA" flux core. That
| will flow well and be gentle on your tips.
|
| The "not right" flux is often a nasty no-clean flux core in
| solder wire. Many don't flow well and leave a horrid residue
| on your tips that's hard to remove. (The bad reputation of
| lead-free solder seems to come not from the alloy but from
| solder wire with lousy choice of flux core.)
|
| The "not enough" flux is often reworking something where the
| flux has been vaporized leaving only the solder. Then you
| need to add some new flux like in the video. The gold
| standard seems to be Amtech tacky fluxes like
| https://www.amazon.com/Amtech-Solder-Flux-NC-559-V2-TF-16150
| danieldk wrote:
| I don't know, I use lead-free solder with a resin core and my
| joint looks much cleaner than most I see on
| /r/ErgoMechKeyboards , where people generally apply liberal
| amounts of flux.
| lukego wrote:
| Great work and great choice of flux-cored solder wire!
| photochemsyn wrote:
| Build a ventilation system for your soldering area, it's more
| than worth it if you're going to be doing much soldering (and is
| also useful for many other purposes). The best option is a fan
| connected to vent tubing leading outside, I doubt 'smoke
| extractors' are that effective, e.g.
|
| https://ribbeckeglass.com/ventilating-soldering-fumes/
| thakoppno wrote:
| https://archive.is/R4mJs
| the__alchemist wrote:
| - No mention of tip types/quality - No mention of flux
| outside that embedded in the solder - No mention of braid
| etc - Recommends a wet sponge to clean (This shocks the
| tip) - Defaults to leaded solder without mentioning the
| risks (I admit this is hot-take territory!)
| nimajneb wrote:
| What do you suggest other than wet sponge to clean the tip? I
| usually try and use a damp sponge, instead of a wet one. This
| is how I learned like 20-25 years ago as a kid though. I never
| learned how to professionally solder.
| blackfawn wrote:
| "Brass wool", basically a clump of brass shavings, is quite
| popular as well. I sometimes use that, sometimes use a damp
| sponge and I don't find any giant difference between the two.
| Some people say the brass type are better (more thorough
| cleaning, less thermal difference, etc.) and some say they
| are worse (wears the plating off the tips faster)
| nimajneb wrote:
| I actually forgot about the brass you're talking about.
| I've seen it used, but never used it myself. I only
| occasionally solder though, just a few times a year either
| to fix something or to make a simple electronic project
| kit. I rarely do it correctly, I usually just heat my iron
| up and solder the item, the only thing I do generally is
| "tin" what I'm soldering first.
| lbayes wrote:
| Brass wire sponge works great.
| anamexis wrote:
| This type with a brass or copper scrubber work great:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Soldering-Cleaner-599B-Water-free-
| Hak...
| puredata wrote:
| As long as you wash your hands after soldering, leaded solder
| is fine. Lead-free solder is harder to work with and never
| comes out as good as leaded solder.
| sureglymop wrote:
| Thank you, this is great! On another note, _what to solder_? I
| 've been playing around with arduinos and esp 32s but so far I've
| just used breadboards and didn't have to solder. Any
| recommendations for an easy project to take on?
| opan wrote:
| A mechanical keyboard is a decent project to learn on. I built
| a Pinky4 kit when I was starting out, since you can't easily
| buy a keyboard like it already assembled. (Ergodox/Moonlander
| have bad thumb clusters)
| floating-io wrote:
| Adafruit tends to sell things like their feather boards with
| loose headers, leaving the buyer to solder them. If you like
| playing with stuff like that it would give you an excuse to buy
| more boards.
|
| Timely; I just finished soldering headers to a Feather about 30
| minutes ago. :)
| TrackerFF wrote:
| Whenever I teach soldering to someone, I try to keep it short -
| and tell that the only things they really need to know is
|
| 1) Keep the surfaces of the two metals you want to solder clean.
| That means removing rust, oxidation, dirt, etc. If possible, make
| a mechanical connection.
|
| 2) The three metals (surface A, surface B, solder) need to be
| equal temperature.
|
| 9 out of 10 times, the solder errors I see are due to the above
| points. It is important to purchase an iron that can get hot
| enough for the things you want to solder together, and which can
| control the temperature well enough.
| atoav wrote:
| Yeah the most common mistake is actually not cleaning well and
| not heating all things up that need to be heated (e.g. trying
| to use the soldering iron like a "brush").
| CarVac wrote:
| When I instruct people to solder, I emphasize that heat
| transfer improves when you press very firmly with the
| soldering iron tip.
|
| Too bad most PCB holders are flimsy. I recommend a solid
| metal vise instead of those contraptions.
| smiley1437 wrote:
| Pace's videos on youtube are old timey but charming and useful
| for basic soldering
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIT4ra6Mo0s
| agumonkey wrote:
| By far my favorite. I'd pay even if they were given to me for
| free.
| doublepg23 wrote:
| > Much like the ability to drive a car with a manual
| transmission, read a map, or write a check, Gen Z is learning
| less and less about how to work with their hands--and it's time
| for that to change.
|
| If only there way some way to obtain this ancient knowledge.
| Perhaps a video repository of sorts. But I'm sure the hand
| wringing about new generation is justified THIS time for sure.
| abfan1127 wrote:
| youtube can help maps and checks... but its not easy to find
| manual transmissions anymore.
| puredata wrote:
| Some tips for soldering beginners that helped me when I first
| started building FPV drones. -Get good solder. Kester 63/37 is my
| favorite. Stay away from lead-free solder, it's harder to work
| with. Soldering temperatures are too low to vaporize lead, just
| wash your hands after handling leaded solder. -Buy good flux. If
| you have a problem soldering, flux will probably fix it. No, the
| flux inside the solder wire is not enough. -Apply flux on the
| pad, heat the pad, lay your wire on the pad. While applying heat
| to the pad with your soldering iron, start feeding the solder
| onto the point where your pad and wire meets. It should start
| melting immediately and create a shiny connection. If it's not
| melting immediately, your soldering iron might be too cold. I
| like 380-420 range. Higher the iron temperature, quicker you
| should be. Don't rest the soldering iron for a prolonged time on
| the pad, it will burn it. Nothing on a flight controller
| (including XT-60 power connections) require more than a couple of
| seconds to heat up.
|
| On a side note, if you're not going for a specific build, don't
| buy rebranded brushless motors with pilot names on them. The same
| motor usually can be found cheaper, with the factory branding.
| Same goes for solder. TBS doesn't manufacture solder, they just
| probably rebrand Kester or some other similar brands with a
| margin. Joshua Bardwell's FPV shopping list should mention every
| one of those brands so you can look it up.
|
| Also as an additional step, consider conformal coating after
| you're done with all your connections.
| Havoc wrote:
| Yeah wouldn't go ultra cheap on first iron. Something like the
| pinecil is a good compromise especially if you have a power
| source on hand that can power it (eg some laptop bricks work)
| sb618 wrote:
| Aaah, this is really not a good beginner's guide to soldering!
| Cranking up to max temperature might work a lot of the time but
| runs the risk of frying ICs and causing PCB traces to come off.
| Also using a wet sponge can cause the tips to rust. It's much
| better to clean them with a brass "sponge" leaving the tip tinned
| to protect it. Finally the real key to easy soldering is solder
| flux (and leaded solder if you're allowed).
| CarVac wrote:
| A wet sponge doesn't cause rust, it's occasionally blamed for
| cracking plating when you use a high temperature.
|
| If you use a moderate temperature (650degF/340degC) it's a
| gentler way to clean flux residue off the tip.
|
| Brass wool I reserve for scrubbing oxidation off the tip, but
| this eventually wears through the plating so I don't do this
| often.
|
| Leaded solder is both toxic and completely unnecessary for
| hobbyist use. I like SAC305 but SN99.7 works well too--the key
| is a good quality flux core.
|
| No-clean flux is convenient but if you do want to clean it,
| it's gummy and makes a mess. "Yes-clean" flux leaves conductive
| residue so it must be cleaned, but it is easier to clean.
|
| As far as temperature goes, the better your iron is at
| transferring heat, the lower the tip temperature you can use,
| which improves tip life and, as you mention, reduces the chance
| of part damage.
|
| I am a lead dev on an open-source hardware project (PhobGCC)
| and I've seen damage caused by bad soldering irons time and
| time again. Don't cheap out. I recommend a Weller WE1010.
| jnovek wrote:
| I use leaded solder and have for years but I'd love to
| replace it with something less toxic. The trouble is that
| lead-free solders I've tried require high temp and flow very
| differently from leaded solder.
|
| Does SAC305 (for example) flow and cool in a similar way to
| good old 63/37?
| CarVac wrote:
| SAC305 melts at a slightly higher temperature but has a
| lower melted viscosity than Sn63.
|
| So it takes a smidge longer to heat a joint than for
| leaded, but you don't need to hold the heat there as long
| once it flows.
|
| It's slightly not eutectic, though, so you must immobilize
| parts as the joint solidifies.
|
| Sn99.7 is eutectic but has a still higher melting point.
|
| I find SAC305 to solder well at 340degC/650degF.
| atoav wrote:
| > Brass wool I reserve for scrubbing oxidation off the tip,
| but this eventually wears through the plating so I don't do
| this often.
|
| I am cleaning my JBC tips with brass for the past 5 years of
| intense use and can't really tell a difference.
| eyegor wrote:
| 340c would be a pretty high setting for most casual use...
| Good chance you'll ruin a board like that. Modern solder is
| pretty easy to work with around 250c and the risk of
| overheating the board is a lot lower. Unless you're soldering
| giant connectors there's no reason to tell a beginner to
| crank it over 300c.
| dotancohen wrote:
| > I recommend a Weller WE1010.
|
| My budget is more in the $20 - $25 range. Cheap adjustable-
| temp soldering irons are available for under $4 [0], surely
| there is some middle ground between those irons and the $115
| unit you suggest?
|
| [0] https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005058271470.html?
| CarVac wrote:
| Those cheap "adjustable temperature" irons are "adjustable
| power" with no actual temperature feedback control.
|
| The middle ground is the Pinecil, which is $25 but needs a
| laptop power supply.
|
| It's... okay. It has less than half the heat transfer rate
| compared to the Weller, but it at least won't burn pads off
| your PCB.
| ianburrell wrote:
| The problem is that bad soldering irons are infuriating. I
| started with super cheap one and it didn't work at all. I
| upgraded to $20 adjustable one that worked for a while but
| is inconsistent. I thought it was my bad technique until
| this thread but sounds like it is the quality.
|
| The $25 Pinecil sounds good and is probably your best
| option. I may go for soldering station since I can afford
| it.
| buescher wrote:
| Sponges - if you have a decent iron, you should be using a
| clean, damp-not-wet, sulfur-free, cellulose sponge. This
| means: buy the type sold for use with a soldering iron,
| squeeze the water out of it after wetting it, and switch to a
| fresh one when it gets cruddy. I have never had an issue.
|
| Flux - hobbyists either try to use 50-year-old parts with
| totally oxidized plating and no flux, or they use too much
| flux. New parts should not need more flux than you have in
| your flux-core solder or in your paste.
|
| The next thing that happens after people discover flux is
| that they want to clean it off, and 99% of the time,
| hobbyists should not be cleaning flux. If you cannot measure
| the reason for cleaning your board, leave it alone. The
| manufacturers will tell you that modern RA and RMA type
| fluxes do not require cleaning for "most applications" - and
| "most applications" almost certainly means you.
|
| No-clean flux should be called "never-clean" for the reason
| you outline. You shouldn't try to clean it, and it will never
| get as clean as you'd like if you do. I like no-clean for
| stuff I'm going to show to other people. You will almost
| certainly use no-clean in production if you go to production.
|
| Water-clean is lovely stuff but it's very unforgiving. It
| will corrode if not cleaned, and you have to plan to wash
| your board by using sealed parts or adding water-sensitive
| parts afterward. You have to be careful with tip temperature
| too or it will destroy your tips. I have a spool of 63/37
| water-clean I've used maybe twice - the boards _sparkled_ but
| it was just too much trouble.
| CarVac wrote:
| "Yes-clean" flux has absolutely been the cause of
| controller malfunctions due to its conductivity for makers
| of my controller project. It needs to be removed.
|
| But yes, no-clean flux is best left where it is.
| buescher wrote:
| Could be so, and it can depend on the flux and the
| processing, but it's almost never the flux. From a 10,000
| ft look at your project, I wouldn't expect it to need the
| high isolation or high impedances that would drive a
| serious cleanliness spec. You could have other issues
| that a temperature and humidity test would uncover with
| no-clean, for example. We can discuss them if you'd like.
|
| Depends on what you mean by "yes-clean" though - "water-
| clean" OA flux must absolutely be cleaned - it can start
| to corrode overnight even.
| CarVac wrote:
| The "yes-clean" flux I'm talking about is high-solids
| rosin flux that leaves a conductive residue. The
| conductivity can definitely cause a circuit to fail.
|
| Makers come to our discord chat, asking why their builds
| aren't working and post a pictures.
|
| I suggest cleaning the flux off, and they start
| functioning.
|
| As an aside:
|
| My current solder brand (Chip Quik) has a "no-clean
| water-soluble" flux that I'm curious about. Surely that's
| not going to be as corrosive as the flux you're talking
| about. (I probably wouldn't use it myself because it
| needs 140degF water to dissolve)
| SillyUsername wrote:
| No mention of solder suckers or tinning either. Mention of how
| to reflow connections using a heat gun is a simpler alternative
| to an iron for fixing some problems too.
| mgaunard wrote:
| I was taught soldering in middle school. Probably did it three or
| four times in my life outside of that.
|
| Didn't do a great job, but it worked. If I cared about it being
| done well, I would have gotten a craftsman.
| squarefoot wrote:
| If I may, I would complete a few points in the article.
|
| Soldering iron:
|
| Get a decent one. That doesn't mean you must throw a boatload of
| money, just avoid the crappy ones, which almost always are the
| cheaper ones. A notable exception is the Pinecil by Pine64.org,
| which is truly a great iron despite being cheap. Pinecil aside,
| you can snatch a used Weller or Hakko on ebay without spending
| too much, but beware of the many fakes. I had for a while a Hakko
| clone, and although well built, it was garbage: the heater-tip
| contact makes all the difference, and that was its weak point.
|
| Solder:
|
| Get leaded solder when possible. It's easier to use and joints
| are a lot less subject to tin whiskers.
|
| Sponge:
|
| Very useful, but don't forget to buy one that is suitable for
| soldering. A kitchen/bathroom one made of synthetic material will
| melt as soon as you put the heated tip on it. In the meantime, a
| damp strip of cotton cloth rolled into a coffee cup can be
| similarly effective.
|
| Work surface:
|
| I don't use a specific one, so don't have direct experience,
| however I doubt one could use a rubber doormat with heated tips.
| A oven silicone mat would probably be safer, but again, I never
| used them.
|
| Other items the article doesn't cover:
|
| -Flux. You will need it. No matter if the solder already contains
| rosin flux, having a way to put some extra flux on the surface to
| be soldered will help immensely.
|
| -Brass wool sponge. Some see it as complementary to the wet
| sponge, but I find having it handy because it is best at removing
| tin residuals from the tip, while the wet one helps cleaning it.
|
| -Solder wick. Very useful to remove tin in excess from old
| joints, therefore also for desoldering parts. Buy a couple rolls
| of different sizes and practice using it.
|
| -Sal Ammoniac. An almost forgotten item which can make a tip
| shine almost like new. It's cheap and a single tablet will last
| years.
|
| Oh, and practice, practice, practice.
| bityard wrote:
| > A notable exception is the Pinecil by Pine64.org, which is
| truly a great iron despite being cheap.
|
| I have a Pinecil and I like it, but I feel that it's not a good
| recommendation for a first soldering iron. The UI may be
| confusing for some, it doesn't come with a power supply, the
| tips are fairly expensive, and there's no place to rest the
| iron while using it. Instead, I would tell a newbie to get a
| middle-of-the-road temperature-controlled soldering station.
| They don't cost that much more and are generally ready to go
| out of the box.
|
| I would certainly recommend the Pinecil as a second soldering
| iron, though.
| spiderxxxx wrote:
| I got a KSGER T-12, and it's pretty good. I watched a few
| videos before buying, and it is able to put out a lot of
| heat, and it works with a variety of tips. I only wish that
| it was easier to change the tips.
| opan wrote:
| The Pinecil was the first iron I really used extensively and
| I think it's fine for a beginner. Plug it in, press plus, it
| heats up. Press plus more if you want to set it hotter, minus
| to go back down after pressing plus. It can use any USB-C PD
| power supply, so many will have one from a phone or laptop,
| you can even run it off a power bank if you want. The default
| tip is very good and my most-used of all the tips (built a
| whole keyboard kit using it as my first project), even after
| getting more. If you set the iron on its side on a flat
| surface, the tip does not touch the table. This can be used
| in a pinch, but also Pine64 sells little sponge holders with
| the positionable metal bar to rest on, or if you get your own
| brass sponge it should have the same.
| i_am_a_peasant wrote:
| There is no such thing as too much flux :)
|
| I would also recommend wearing protective glasses not to splash
| stuff on your eyes.
| spiderxxxx wrote:
| Oh, there definitely is such a thing as too much flux. I have
| some active flux that works really well on old and oxidized
| boards, but it's a pain to clean. I try to use only the
| amount necessary to do the job. No-clean flux still needs to
| be cleaned, but it's a lot easier to clean up, and with that
| I will say that I agree with your statement, conditionally.
| Having a swimming pool of flux or more flux than solder is
| not good.
| schoen wrote:
| > Get leaded solder when possible. It's easier to use and
| joints are a lot less subject to tin whiskers.
|
| If you do use leaded solder, be extra-sure to wash your hands
| after soldering.
| EamonnMR wrote:
| I know it's supposed to be much better, but the idea of
| vaporizing lead anywhere remotely near where kids may someday
| play is pretty intimidating. Are there any useable lead free
| solders?
| mardifoufs wrote:
| Lead can't really vaporize at any temperature used in
| soldering. There are other fumes (mostly from flux) to be
| worried about, and you have to make sure that solder
| leftovers are well disposed of (especially when
| desoldering). But lead free is definitely usable now,
| though I only use it for solder paste.
| xahrepap wrote:
| The smoke you see while working with solder is from the
| flux, not the lead. Lead doesn't vaporize at the
| temperatures soldering exposes it to.
|
| Just don't put the solder in your mouth and wash your
| hands.
|
| Here is one stack exchange answer that seems well
| researched to me:
| https://electronics.stackexchange.com/a/19086
|
| I also did a lot of googling on the subject recently when I
| decided I wanted to try out Stained glass, but wasn't sure
| what precautions I should take. I've come to the personal
| conclusion to not stress about the lead in solder.
| nerdponx wrote:
| The lead does not vaporize at soldering temperatures. The
| fumes are just flux. Will irritate eyes and airway, but
| won't really hurt you. However do wash your hands, and if
| you are _de_ -soldering with a pump you probably want to
| vacuum wipe surfaces with a damp cloth, as you can end up
| creating some lead dust in the process.
| someweirdperson wrote:
| > It's a metal alloy comprised of tin and lead (often 60 percent
| tin and 40 percent lead) used to bond items together.
|
| No more lead in the EU, with few exceptions.
| smiley1437 wrote:
| Learning on lead-free nearly turned me off of soldering until a
| buddy gave some Kester eutectic, that is a freaking joy
| compared to lead-free
| danieldk wrote:
| I have made quite a few keyboards (including handwired) and a
| few other electronics projects with lead-free solder and it
| has never been an issue. I use lead-free solder with a resin
| core, set the iron to the recommended temperature, and make
| sure to tin the tip.
| CarVac wrote:
| Lead-free is fine.
|
| Lead-free with poor quality flux is abhorrent to use.
|
| Get good quality lead-free with good flux from a reputable
| manufacturer (Kester is good, as you mentioned) and it's
| fine.
|
| In fact, I prefer how thin and quick to wet out SAC305 is
| over the lower melting point of Sn63Pb37.
| nsheridan wrote:
| Lead solder is totally attainable for hobbyists - I bought a
| 100g spool a few weeks ago.
| Havoc wrote:
| Yeah tbh I'd rather struggle a bit more than have lead in the
| mix. Lead is for life
| kronk wrote:
| This Youtube playlist helped me immensely.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL926EC0F1F93C1837
| kloch wrote:
| The most important thing: Put the heat where you want the solder
| to flow to, not where it's starting from.
|
| This also applies to soldering/brazing copper pipes.
| retrac wrote:
| To add to that, you add the solder to the heated part and it
| will flow into the point you're soldering. Don't try to
| transfer it from the iron or paste it on the spot semi-melted.
| rimunroe wrote:
| I did some electronic soldering in my teens and in college.
| I've occasionally done it since then to do minor repairs like
| replace part of a mouse I liked when it wore out after years of
| clicking. This past week I discovered that one of the spigots
| on the outside of my house had failed over the winter. The
| spigot (sorry, "spillcock") and the piece it screwed into had
| both been damaged by ice and caused a leak inside the wall. I
| took a picture of the joint and accompanying piping and sent it
| to my dad for advice. He was pretty horrified at the quality of
| the surrounding joints, so he strongly suggested replacing more
| than just the two parts that were causing the leak.
|
| I went out and bought some lead-free solder and flux, but
| didn't think to look up anything about flux or solder quality.
| I was having trouble getting a joint I was happy with, until I
| finally gave in and asked my neighbor (a plumber) for some
| advice. He give me some very useful advice (give the excess
| flux a wipe once it starts bubbling, start applying solder at
| the bottom to let steam escape out the top of the joint and
| then work your way up, among others). He also gave me his
| favorite (lead-free) solder and flux to use. The flux looked
| really grody, and unsurprisingly made a huge difference in how
| well everything flowed. In the end, I replaced the suspicious
| section with my much less janky piece and it's now dry as a
| bone.
| eschneider wrote:
| As a strictly software person who's been living in the embedded
| world for a while, developing adequate soldering skills will make
| your life hella easier. Lots of setup/debugging problems get
| easier if you can just make the connectors you need or stick a
| lead in just the right spot.
|
| Being self-reliant for stuff like that is basic productivity
| stuff.
| jrib wrote:
| any good resources you recommend to someone who is a software
| person not living in embedded world?
| eschneider wrote:
| As a few people have mentioned, YouTube is a treasure trove
| of instructions on how to use test equipment like
| multimeters/oscilloscopes/etc. to see if stuff's alive and
| responsive. Ins and outs of JTAG is also handy and practical.
| If you want to go deeper, intro books on electronic circuits
| and some of the online MIT electronics classes are great.
| rwaksmunski wrote:
| Yeah, don't cheap out on the soldering iron. If you have to, at
| least get yourself a t12 clone. For $50 you should be able to
| find a decent one with extra tips and accessories. Anything less
| is a waste of money and will bring frustration.
| atahanacar wrote:
| I used to "suck" at soldering, until one day I was recommended a
| Louis Rossmann video by Youtube and decided to watch it. Once I
| saw how much flux he used, I started to use more flux and as it
| turns out, that was my problem.
|
| That is my problem with this article. Flux is only superficially
| in a sentence. So my tip to beginners: Cleaning flux is way
| easier than struggling to solder with little/no flux.
| replygirl wrote:
| learning that way will also have you relying on flux for
| through-holes, though. you can get really good without flux,
| just takes some tip cleaner and a brass cleaning pad, and
| you'll end up wasting less on the smd jobs
| atahanacar wrote:
| >learning that way will also have you relying on flux for
| through-holes, though
|
| Is that really a problem, especially for a beginner? I can
| understand if you are soldering a lot, you will be faster
| without the need to constantly add flux and save resources
| but at that point, I think the repetition will let you get
| better over time anyway.
| sbolt wrote:
| Do you have a link to the video by any chance?
| atahanacar wrote:
| Not really, it was around spring 2018. He was joking about
| how one can never have enough flux.
| giankam wrote:
| The article doesn't actually teach how to solder. Just a few tips
| but not practical instructions to follow. As an example this
| sentence: "so we're going to start by adding solder to both the
| wire and the pad that it's being soldered to--this process is
| often referred to as tinning."
|
| Doesn't give a single hint on how to do it...
| shortrounddev wrote:
| For me the issue wasn't learning to solder, it was learning about
| electricity and the kinds of things I wanted to solder in an
| intuitive way
| ptero wrote:
| Good article (although I would also add my vote to "do not buy
| the cheapest iron" group).
|
| It would be great to include a few ideas on _what_ to try in this
| "how to get started" guide. It can be anything from an artsy
| soldering of a few small metal pieces to a custom switch to a
| simple electronics contraption. Or even a link to a few Make
| magazine mini-projects.
|
| This could move the needle from reading a cool article to
| actually trying it. My 2c.
| brailsafe wrote:
| Damn, paywalled. Seems timely though, I was just about to start
| with an incredibly basic iron a friend game me that seems to have
| no temp control, unleaded solder, flux
| Animats wrote:
| What, no pre-cleaning? No flux remover spray? Lead solder with no
| exhaust fan?
|
| Using lead solder is kind of retro. There are good lead-free
| solders now. If you get the kind with 3% silver, you pay $5
| instead of $3 for a small spool, but it's much easier to get good
| results. Also, that stuff is no-clean, which simplifies things.
| varispeed wrote:
| The article doesn't mention any protective eyewear. When
| soldering use safety glasses - the heated flux flies everywhere
| and it's not fun when a hot droplet hits you in the eye.
|
| I am not soldering without safety glasses, lab coat and nitrile
| gloves. May seem like an overkill, but the flux really goes
| everywhere and it's not good for your health.
|
| Also don't forget to have a fume extractor! - you don't want to
| breathe the fumes!
|
| If you can't get one, at very least ensure you have a fan that
| will blow it away from your face.
| foobarian wrote:
| A tip I got here a while ago is to use dry brass/copper sponges
| instead of wet sponges to clean the iron, because water stresses
| it too much. Like this one https://www.amazon.com/Soldering-Iron-
| Tip-Cleaner-Non-slip/d...
| smiley1437 wrote:
| it's better, but still abrades
|
| More importantly, the lesson I learned was to get a soldering
| system\station where you can get replacement tips
| easily\cheaply
| was_a_dev wrote:
| > Much like the ability to drive a car with a manual
| transmission, read a map, or write a check, Gen Z is learning
| less and less about how to work with their hands--and it's time
| for that to change.
|
| Ugh. Let's talk down the youngest generation of adults to justify
| a basic tutorial article.
|
| Ironically no one of Gen Z, that I know of, is unable to do any
| of those examples.
| nocman wrote:
| While I can see why you might take that as "talking down the
| youngest generation of adults", I don't think that is
| necessarily the author's intention.
|
| All three of those examples _are_ things that many people from
| Gen Z often don 't ever do. They are also all still valuable
| skills that I believe are still worth knowing.
|
| I agree that it is bad to talk down to people just because they
| are young. It is also bad to dismiss people because they are
| significantly older than you are. Both parties miss out when
| those things happen. Younger people often have more energy and
| free time, and their excitement about what they are learning
| can be energizing. Older people often have experience that is
| tremendously valuable. You can learn a great deal from someone
| with years of experience in a field in which you have interest.
|
| I think one of the unfortunate things about the internet is it
| is far too easy to default to being combative, and assume the
| worst about what others are saying. And yes, I include myself
| in that as well as others.
| csydas wrote:
| I don't quite get the thrust of most of your post beyond that
| you have a more generous understanding on the quote.
|
| As I get your post based on the amount spent on why it's bad
| to dismiss older persons, I don't think this is really what
| the article or GP suggested. similarly, I am not sure that
| it's fair to say genz often doesn't do a lot of the mentioned
| things. GenZ is full of individuals specializing in niche or
| old fashioned skills and showing the skills off on specific
| mediums. Coding and repair twitch streams are quite common,
| just maybe not as much as subjects that are easier to
| appreciate without much knowledge in the subject. It's pretty
| easy for most people to grasp why a contortionist's skill or
| someone skilled with sewing has a rare and unique talent.
| it's a lot easier to understand what went into it and the
| precision and the result is very apparent. I think it's not
| so clear with subjects like electronics repair as the tech
| might work afterwards, but there is too much to understand
| going into it to fully appreciate the result in its own, and
| thus audiences rely on the presenter to fill the gaps.
|
| The authors examples are good ones if you're already inclined
| towards fixing stuff on your own; but if it were me, even
| with a simple fix like string lights, i'd have a hard time
| justifying repairs on my own as i'd need to invest into the
| repair kit and it would be hard to shake concerns on if I did
| a safe repair or if I made a mistake that needs to be fixed.
| I imagine it's like this for many, as even a few years back
| when I did laptop repair at a university, students (even
| technical ones) were antsy about such manual repairs and
| fixes, and often just preferred to put the liability on
| someone else. for something really disposable like lights, a
| cheap phone, etc, i can easily get why people of all ages
| would just prefer a new one.
|
| Soldering is a fun hobby, and i think that the hobbyist
| community would easily eat it up if they don't already (i'm
| positive you can find some electronics repair vids/channels).
| it is just lacking practical reasons for people to be
| interested and/or personalities to bring people to it.
| DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote:
| In your third paragraph, you point out a few things: 1) the
| emotional anxiety of doing the repairs, 2) putting the
| liability on someone else, 3) disposibility or products.
| You mention these as reasons of why not to do the repair
| yourself.
|
| All of those reasons are the main critisms of gen Z and
| millenials! I'm not a boomer, but:
|
| 1) Emotions are preventing repairs?? A bit of stoicism is
| needed. If you have the habit of repairing things, there is
| no anxiety. In the old hacker culture you'd think it would
| be a fun opportunity to disassemble and see how it works
| and repair it.
|
| 2) Takes some reponsibility and risks instead of putting
| the liability on someone else. The end result is people who
| are less reliant on others, less finger pointing.
|
| 3) The article is trying to promote repairing skills
| instead of consumer culture. Repairing and better built
| products instead of filling landfills.
|
| You also mention "i'd need to invest into the repair
| kit"... it's _cheaper_ to repair than buy new! As you
| collect tools and experience, there 's more and more
| opportunity to repair, which adds more tools and
| experiences... a great positive feedback loop.
| replygirl wrote:
| it goes both ways. most of the gen z folks i know can't read a
| clock or focus on a movie
| fullstop wrote:
| You need to meet more gen z folks.
| dang wrote:
| " _Please don 't pick the most provocative thing in an article
| or post to complain about in the thread. Find something
| interesting to respond to instead._"
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| flappyeagle wrote:
| you are blessed. I know _millennials_ who can 't do any of
| those.
| eimrine wrote:
| > Gen Z is learning less and less about how to work with their
| hands
|
| But it has more and more sources of learning in comparison to
| my ones when I was in their age.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _Let 's talk down the youngest generation_
|
| You're not the younger generation anymore.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Alpha
|
| _no one of Gen Z, that I know of, is unable to do any of those
| examples._
|
| "That I know of" is the hallmark of Gen Z: Thinking that their
| experiences are the only experiences.
|
| Taking the manual transmission example, there were a number of
| items in the news back when manual transmission was more common
| about Millennial and Gen Z would-be car thieves being unable to
| drive away because they didn't know how to use a stick.
|
| But since you didn't know them, they must not exist.
| jakeinspace wrote:
| Ah yes, the 12 year old adults, how could they have
| forgotten.
| was_a_dev wrote:
| > youngest generation of adults
|
| Gen Alpha are yet to become adults
|
| > that I know of
|
| A disclaimer, as I am more than aware my experience is just
| that, my own.
|
| Just like my experience and viewpoint probably differs with
| other factors
| purpleblue wrote:
| I'm Gen X and the only way I knew how to drive a manual was
| because of video games.
| the_only_law wrote:
| > Just 2.4% of our cars sold today have stick shifts.[0]
|
| Gee, I wonder why these stupid kids aren't familiar with manual
| transmissions.
|
| [0] https://www.carmax.com/articles/stick-shift-index
| comte7092 wrote:
| I bet they can't even write cursive either, or ride a horse.
| mgaunard wrote:
| That's only in the USA though.
| gregshap wrote:
| Curious where you are finding a sample of Gen Z members who can
| all drive manual transmission?
| TremendousJudge wrote:
| In countries that are not the USA?
| tiagod wrote:
| I live in Portugal and you'll find more Gen Zers (with a
| drivers license) afraid of driving an automatic than a stick
| shift.
|
| If you've never driven one, automatic cars feel super
| dangerous as you can accelerate indefinitely even when
| unconscious, and even in a normal situation your left foot
| clutch muscle memory will make you push the brake (to the
| floor) without meaning to as well.
| brewdad wrote:
| My GenZer wants to learn but we literally don't know a single
| person who owns a manual transmission car. Well we know one
| but it's a cousin who lives 1500 miles away and we really
| only see at weddings and funerals.
| h4ch1 wrote:
| I am Gen Z (1999), and learnt how to solder by being told to
| build a radio from scratch by my father. I had to source my own
| materials, find schematics, figure them out on my own at age
| 11. I consider myself extremely lucky my childhood wasn't one
| where I was given an iPad at age 4 to fry my brain completely.
| cookie_monsta wrote:
| I am Gen X and I have never written a cheque in my life. Manual
| transmission and maps I am ok with.
| jonhohle wrote:
| Based on the spelling, you're probably not from the US. Until
| recently, there were really no "free" ways to give
| independent contractors money except cash or check. That's
| changing, slowly.
| purpleblue wrote:
| You're Canadian. I'm surprised you didn't write cheques for
| rent, like I did when I lived in Canada.
| cookie_monsta wrote:
| No, Australian and we have been depositing money for things
| such as rent directly into people's bank accounts via
| telephone and internet banking for as long as I can
| remember. Well, no. I have a dim memory of taking my
| landlord big wads of cash in the early 90s. Most of the
| passport application/ renewal process is online, but for a
| child passport you just go to the post office and tap your
| card as if you were paying in the supermarket. I remember
| my dad's chequbook. It's kind of quaint to think they're
| still in use, like if you went into a shop and they still
| had that pneumatic tube system for sending messages.
| purpleblue wrote:
| I didn't know Australians use "cheque" as well, I thought
| that was a French term!
| was_a_dev wrote:
| For myself, writing cheques have been a case of supporting
| the older generation(s)
| brewdad wrote:
| My GenZ child wrote their first check a few months ago. The
| State Department doesn't take cash or credit cards for
| passport applications. The guy at the post office talked
| them through it and their passport arrived last week.
|
| A decade from now they'll write their second check and have
| to be talked through it again.
| zahma wrote:
| The point of the article is to propose it as a fun thing to do
| on the side. But who solders as a hobby? I'm a millenial, and I
| have broken out my dad's soldering equipment a handful of times
| because I wanted to try fixing something myself. (I'd hazard a
| guess that's cultural more than generational, but maybe not.)
|
| I don't know that this article did such a good job making the
| case for soldering as a hobby in so much as it lays the
| groundwork for someone who might need to use this tool to fix
| something his/herself. And that should be the emphasis.
|
| I can drive a manual car, swim, and perform CPR -- supposedly
| the three things an adult should know, but damn it if I spend
| more time in my workshop hunched over molten metal. I got other
| things to enjoy, as I'm sure many people younger than myself do
| too.
| some_random wrote:
| Those damn degenerate Gen Z kids, can you believe they didn't
| spring fully formed into the world knowing how to do everything
| I now know how to?? /s
| kjhgfdfg wrote:
| [flagged]
| pyb wrote:
| Gen Z will be one of the most practical generations in history,
| thanks to Youtube.
| teelelbrit wrote:
| [dead]
| atum47 wrote:
| Do you have any of these for welding? I'd like to get started on
| welding. Soldering is cool though, thanks for sharing.
| [deleted]
| nlnn wrote:
| As a very occasional solderer, one thing I don't see written
| about much in beginner guides is ventilation.
|
| With lead-based solder, I'm never sure what I should be doing,
| especially in a small room/workshop. Keeping windows open or
| having good airflow isn't always possible.
|
| Things like: should I avoid leaning over or breathing in while
| leaning over something I'm soldering? Do I need to air the room
| afterwards? Would a small carbon fume extractor help? Anything to
| worry about from other chemicals in lead-free solder? Or is even
| lead harmless enough for someone that's not soldering ever day?
| bityard wrote:
| Lead does not vaporize at the temperatures being soldered,
| there is basically zero risk of breathing it in.
|
| However, when soldering you will end up with little balls and
| blobs of solder as waste. Don't just throw them in the trash.
| These should be collected and disposed of properly, as
| hazardous waste so that they don't end up in a landfill
| polluting your grandkids' water supply.
| derkades wrote:
| The fumes are from flux (usually rosin), not lead. They are
| mostly safe, just breathe out while you're soldering. Soldering
| should hardly leave a bad smell. If the room does smell bad
| after soldering, you might be accidentally burning something
| else, like plastic insulation.
| perilunar wrote:
| Of course the first thing to learn is how to pronounce the
| sodding word /s
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