[HN Gopher] Mariadb.com is dead, long live MariaDB.org
___________________________________________________________________
Mariadb.com is dead, long live MariaDB.org
Author : edent
Score : 211 points
Date : 2023-04-06 12:09 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (medium.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (medium.com)
| jcadam wrote:
| There are still plenty of devs who just spin up mysql (rather
| than mariadb) without thinking about it when starting a new
| project. Because that's what they always do.
| zerocrates wrote:
| Why shouldn't they? MySQL 8 is pretty good.
| ThinkBeat wrote:
| As unwelcome as I find it, I guess this will cause people to
| switch to Oracle MySQL is they need full $$$$ support for their
| databases.
| fmajid wrote:
| Could Percona be a white knight for MariaDB (the project, not
| the company)? Ownership by Oracle is an immediate deal-breaker
| for me.
| warent wrote:
| Good grief I don't know what to make of this, but it does make me
| feel glad that I've chosen to specialize in Postgres
| kerblang wrote:
| Well, I _was_ wondering: Can one guy really IPO the same product
| _twice_? It was quite a clever stunt quitting Oracle, snagging IP
| on the way out, and just rinse /repeat to another $billion+ but
| it seemed to good to be true. I guess it was.
|
| (I am a MariaDB user, btw, so... hoping that it doesn't go
| completely in the toilet.)
| ergonaught wrote:
| We didn't IPO MySQL, we were acquired by Sun. We were on track
| for IPO, yes, but there were too many acquisition offers to
| bother.
|
| Monty didn't "snag IP" or perform a "clever stunt". He forked a
| GPL codebase the same as anyone else can do. His goal was not
| to do another IPO.
|
| I get that talking about things you don't actually understand
| is perfectly human, but Monty's about 99% great guy pretty much
| all the time. If you want to snipe, take aim at the one thing
| he actually did wrong, instead of the things other people did
| wrong with his babies.
| INTPenis wrote:
| I don't wanna get involved in the politics of it all, and yes I
| love postgres too, I just want to say that Monty is a pretty cool
| founder.
|
| Several times I've come into their irc channel on libera and
| asked some dumb question and Monty himself answers me. How many
| other projects that have lived through an Oracle acquisition can
| you say that about?
| pachico wrote:
| I have plans to migrate all our MariaDB RDS instances to MySQL.
| AWS is heavily investing in MySQL (Aurora, even Serverless) while
| for MariaDB there is hardly any news.
|
| I'm sad, every time I do benchmarks for specific use cases,
| MariaDB turns out to have better performance but we do need to
| think about sustainability.
|
| Sooner or later, we will say good bye to it.
| 313 wrote:
| [flagged]
| hodgesrm wrote:
| That's pretty good. Excuse the dumb question, but is that the
| same Michael Howard that runs MariaDB?
|
| If so, it just shows that you should always have another skill
| you can fall back on, such as street musician. (Personally I'm
| pretty handy at bagging groceries.)
| dailydrudge wrote:
| Yes that is him.
| alfor wrote:
| In 2023 what is the advantage of mariaDB/mysql vs Postgres?
| MangoCoffee wrote:
| its probably the install base. if you look at share webhosting,
| most if not all offer MySql.
| flas9sd wrote:
| there are less dimensions in user/access management to grok, no
| role privilege inheritance to think of. The public schema in
| psql has a surprise for unsuspecting mysql converts. Easier
| connection model. No vacuuming. Maxscale (by mariadb) is a good
| addition.
|
| Now you didn't ask for Postgres advantages but I know a lot
| too, I like the choice and competition.
| mrunkel wrote:
| Whichever one you know is the one for you.
| stefanos82 wrote:
| People, relax please!
|
| This is the company we are talking about, not the FOSS-ed
| version.
|
| If Microsoft has become a Platinum Sponsor for Azure support, you
| have nothing to worry about; the MySQL team that moved to MariaDB
| along with Monty will offer their support for you.
|
| See the video by Monty near the end of
| https://mariadb.org/donate/
| avg_dev wrote:
| > This entire article was written for one group of people.
|
| >
|
| > If you are employed at MariaDB, you absolutely need to be
| scheduling interviews with other companies.
| concerned_ wrote:
| [flagged]
| mardifoufs wrote:
| I wonder if some distro repos will stop installing mariadb
| instead of mysql whenever you try to install mysql. Always struck
| me as a weird thing to do since mysql never stopped development.
| (MariaDB.org seems to be still active, but there is now much more
| uncertainty (imo) compared to the mysql project)
| apocalyptic0n3 wrote:
| At a glance, it seems like the open source MariaDB is just
| fine. It's the commercial company that is dead/dying. This may
| affect future development on the OSS side, but for now it seems
| like there's no immediate danger.
|
| As for why it's included over MySQL, it's undoubtedly the fact
| that MySQL has been owned by Oracle since 2010. Oracle has not
| been the most friendly to OSS communities in the past.
| usrusr wrote:
| You were probably talking only about the OSS side of that
| particular RDBMS, but I believe that effect on OSS in general
| might actually be even more interesting: taking a few years
| of salaries from investors and then pack up when tensions
| over postponing profitability reach uncomfortable levels? At
| some point capital will start refusing to play that game.
|
| This is supposed to be about "racism, sexism" and stuff like
| that, but I don't necessarily see any contradiction. Because
| it's not unheard of that in troubled companies, questionable
| people rise to or stay in power that would not stand a chance
| in a more healthy environment where better candidates don't
| run away. Selection for the kind of person who'd rather be
| captain on a sinking wreck than some lower officer on a well
| run boat and I'd be surprised if there wasn't considerable
| correlation between those and the scandal that's supposedly
| the root cause here.
| cesarb wrote:
| > Always struck me as a weird thing to do since mysql never
| stopped development.
|
| It makes sense if the distribution no longer includes mysql,
| and the mysql the distribution included previously was from
| before the fork: users who already had mysql installed would be
| automatically migrated to a compatible replacement. It's the
| same thing which happened with openoffice and libreoffice.
| dspillett wrote:
| _> Always struck me as a weird thing to do since mysql never
| stopped development._
|
| It never stopped, but it did seem to stagnate a fair bit for a
| while meaning that MariaDB trumped it on some features & fixes.
| For instance CTE support arrived in stable releases about a
| year earlier. That of course may not be the case any more.
| 5e92cb50239222b wrote:
| Oracle seems to do large feature drops every few years, while
| MariaDB has been shipping features incrementally every 6
| months or so. The first couple of versions were the
| exception: they pulled an enormous amount of functionality
| from other forks, many of which have since been removed
| (things like the TokuDB storage engine). Left a bit of a sour
| taste in my mouth (how can you depend on a database that
| shoves 50 features in, and then removes 20 of them during the
| next few years).
|
| We have low visibility into MySQL development process (is the
| bug tracker still closed? I am not sure), so when they
| shipped 8.0 in 2018 it was quite a surprise. They fixed a
| number of outstanding issues, including many extremely bad
| defaults (like using proper Unicode by default). Some things
| added in 8.0 (like atomic DDL) are still not available in
| MariaDB. Oracle being Oracle, there haven't been any major
| releases since.
| ilyt wrote:
| It's literally "lesser evil", as MySQL is owned by Oracle now.
| flas9sd wrote:
| as a database engines fan, I am glad for mariadb to have been
| the replacement in many distros. This way it got traction and
| mariadb did interesting things the last few years. Oracle mysql
| put out interesting releases with v8 again too. While I got hit
| by some bugs in mariadb, I did also benefit. As long as core
| developers aren't stranded or go outside sql/databases I don't
| think there is a technical loss.
| rubinlinux wrote:
| > Always struck me as a weird thing to do since mysql never
| stopped development.
|
| What actually happened is more like they changed their name,
| and sold the old name to Oracle. Oracle then forked and carried
| on developing a new product under the old name, while the
| original team carried on developing the old product under the
| new name (mariadb).
|
| That is why distros did what they did.
| jzb wrote:
| MySQL sold to Sun in 2008, which was then gobbled up by
| Oracle in 2009.
|
| MariaDB is the fork, technically speaking. The distro switch
| took some time, probably in part because they wanted to wait
| and see if MariaDB would be suitable / sustainable.
|
| Fedora and openSUSE switched to MariaDB in 2013, in part due
| to Oracle's license changes and changes to info published in
| CVEs and because they were considered easier to work with.
| (See: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel-
| announce/201...)
| shapefrog wrote:
| > the SPAC entity
|
| I stopped reading right there - MariaDB (corp) went public via a
| SPAC in Dec 2022. Hopefully this is nature healing itself and the
| Corp entity goes to the wall and the Open Source foundation sheds
| the parasite.
|
| I also hope all the grifters involved wind up broke and homeless.
| bastardoperator wrote:
| I've always gravitated towards MySQL because I had the most
| experience with. I recently started work with Supabase and
| Postgres, I don't think I'll ever look back.
| lbhdc wrote:
| I was surprised when I saw them go public the other day. It
| wasn't really clear to me what their business plan was. At the
| time, I was still under the impression they had a bunch of spac
| money, but I had a hard time seeing a path for them to keep those
| coffers full. This seems like a mess.
| ahofmann wrote:
| Oof. What does this mean for us people using mariadb? Is there a
| big company that uses mariadb enough, that the development of the
| db is secured?
| davidmichael wrote:
| There are a number of large companies sponsoring MariaDB.org
| development. I don't think there is any concern about its
| development going forward at this point.
|
| https://mariadb.org/donate/#corporate-sponsorships
| [deleted]
| nickstinemates wrote:
| Working with Monty was the best part of working at MariaDB. Hope
| he is doing well.
| BonoboIO wrote:
| Should i short the stock?
| ilyt wrote:
| [flagged]
| joshmanders wrote:
| Genuinely curious how much you've donated towards MySQL and
| MariaDB if you feel so strongly about him not "selling out"..
|
| My gut is telling me, much like everyone else who has similar
| distaste towards people being paid for their work, absolutely
| nothing.
| Quarrel wrote:
| Why should he have not sold it?
|
| Why does it make him an asshole?
|
| He's written two incredible open source tools, that are still
| open source.
|
| If someone then offers him some money to secure himself &
| family, why should he ignore them?
| daneel_w wrote:
| Amazed how, when it at the time had by far the largest share of
| global DB installations?
| bewaretheirs wrote:
| He sold to Sun Microsystems, not to Oracle.
|
| Oracle then bought Sun.
| wholinator2 wrote:
| I guess i don't fully understand the distinction. So the company
| is going down, but the open source org is still alive. Did the
| company do most of the development? If they did was that
| development available to people using it 'for free'? Why was
| there a company in the first place, you'd think it would be hard
| to make money betting on a single open source database.
|
| My only interaction with MariaDB was picking it from a list of
| possible RDS images because the description basically said,
| "MySQL but better". Since i was paying AWS to run that service,
| was there money going to the MariaDB corporation? Or was AWS
| using the free open source one and pocketing the cash. I'm
| definitely out of my depth here
| that_guy_iain wrote:
| I think MariaDB the company did the support contracts, probably
| funded some development, and had some commerical products. They
| had some of their own products because they created the
| Business Source License[1] where code becomes open-source after
| three years.
|
| [1] - https://mariadb.com/bsl11/
| madeofpalk wrote:
| Does the original creator have a third kid to name the next
| fork after?
| wayne wrote:
| You mean 4? The second kid's name was used for MaxDB, which
| is used in the SAP world. :)
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Widenius
| adduc wrote:
| MariaDB Plc. appears to be the top contributor to MariaDB's
| codebase (81.9% of commits since the beginning of 2020)[0].
|
| [0]: https://mariadb.org/mariadb-contribution-statistics-
| march-20...
| tomxor wrote:
| > MariaDB Plc. appears to be the top contributor to MariaDB's
| codebase (81.9% of commits since the beginning of 2020)[0].
|
| For context MariaDB existed before 2020, Before the Plc,
| since 2009, and will continue to exist after.
| felixgallo wrote:
| Shades of Basho (rip). One wonders if there is a curse on open
| source database companies. Maybe we could call it Data Gravity?
| marcosdumay wrote:
| Postgres seems to be managing it pretty well.
|
| The curse is on companies that decide to completely own some
| popular open source program. If you are happy to just be
| successful together with other people, you'll be fine.
| assface wrote:
| > Shades of Basho
|
| Can you please explain? They just ran out of money. They never
| did a SPAC.
| felixgallo wrote:
| https://www.theregister.com/2018/07/09/basho_damages_20m_mis.
| ..
| ilyt wrote:
| ??? They were never even a popular database in the first place
| sbuttgereit wrote:
| I dunno... EnterpriseDB seems to be around year after year
| without too much drama.
|
| https://www.enterprisedb.com/
| djha-skin wrote:
| A lot of fear, uncertainty, and doubt here. Of course the banks
| backing out along with the founder is a bad sign. However,
| quoting "they may expire worthless" from an SEC filing and citing
| that as "evidence" is weak; SEC filings are full of what-if
| scenarios. From where I sit, $4.8 million in cash is _plenty_ of
| runway for 100 people, even if it is a bit stiff for California.
| I 'm not saying it won't shut down, but some of the specific
| arguments about why its demise is coming didn't land with me.
| zaidf wrote:
| >From where I sit, $4.8 million in cash is plenty of runway for
| 100 people
|
| LinkedIn shows ~350 employees with about half of them in the
| US. $4.8 million is far from plenty to pay 300+ employees...not
| counting lawyers.
| tmpz22 wrote:
| > From where I sit, $4.8 million in cash is plenty of runway
| for 100 people,
|
| 4.800.000 / 100 = $48,000 per person. For one year.
|
| Not counting all other business expenses like servers. Laptops.
| Slack. Zoom.
| djha-skin wrote:
| These numbers assume no revenue however.
| tmpz22 wrote:
| Are they going to attract a lot of big customers after this
| news?
| kramerger wrote:
| This Michael Howard guy sounds like a greate dude...
|
| What did he do before joining and crashing mariadb?
| NelsonMinar wrote:
| His LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-
| howard-2b7b273/
|
| He joined MariaDB 7 years ago, in 2015. Before then he hasC9 (A
| SaaS company), Greenplum, EMC, 10 jobs in total. In the late
| 90s he lists 4 years as "VP of data warehousing and integration
| technologies" at Oracle.
| fortran77 wrote:
| What was the racism, sexism, and abuse at "MariaDB the Company"?
| A search yields no drama.
| justin_oaks wrote:
| Have you tried asking ChatGPT? I'm sure it can come up with
| something.
|
| This is a reference to another HN item on the front page:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35468540
| T3RMINATED wrote:
| [dead]
| npteljes wrote:
| >This is yet another case of American corporatism failing the
| open source world.
|
| I believe that simply "This is yet another case of American
| corporatism failing", full stop. It's a loophole in the system.
|
| It's a good thing that MariaDB is open source, so that a failure
| like this can't bring the product down.
| hodgesrm wrote:
| Could you be more specific about how American corporatism is
| failing open source in this case? MariaDB PLC is not profitable
| and most investors give it low chances of getting there. It's
| currently trading at 25% of the IPO price which was already 40%
| below the initial opening. [0, 1] (I hope I'm reading the
| numbers correctly.)
|
| [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34070451
|
| [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mariadb-announces-first-
| quart...
| habibur wrote:
| RIP : MySQL of the 90s that made the dynamic web possible.
|
| There were two options then. mSQL where you couldn't join between
| two tables. And Postgress95 which crashed sometimes as soon as a
| client connected.
|
| MySQL had been a breath of fresh air.
| joeatwork wrote:
| Indeed - MySQL was fast, freely available, lightweight, and
| "good enough" (and continually getting better) in an era when
| the commercial competitors were ultraheavy, evil or broken (and
| often all three). Pour one out for a real one.
| Veen wrote:
| This article twice makes accusations of "racism, sexism, and
| abuse" without backing it up with facts. Is there any more
| information about it in the public sphere? Or is it just: "These
| things are bad and MariaDB is bad, so we'll say they did these
| things".
|
| It certainly seems like the company is going down the toilet, but
| I'd be dubious about the motivations of an anonymous rant on
| Medium about a publicly traded company.
| creatonez wrote:
| According to the thread on /r/mysql, the author used to work
| there. So there is some credibility to the claims.
| rwalle wrote:
| Yeah, I was so turned off by this that I did not go much
| further beyond the first paragraph. I mean, is this a rant or a
| genuine effort to write a story? Why should I bother to read an
| article that makes such strong accusations without providing
| concrete evidence, and is the rest of the article is also
| written in the same fashion?
| jjulius wrote:
| The only article referencing those claims that I could find
| when Googling just now was this very article. Beyond that,
| there is a Glassdoor page with negative reviews that suggest
| the same.
| tablespoon wrote:
| > The only article referencing those claims that I could find
| when Googling just now was this very article. Beyond that,
| there is a Glassdoor page with negative reviews that suggest
| the same.
|
| I'm thinking those accusations are probably just slurs by
| someone with a grudge.
|
| I'm running into all kinds of paywalls with Glassdoor and I
| don't want to register, but google searches make it look like
| pretty much every company under the sun has a Glassdoor
| review complaining of racism, sexism, etc. For instance this
| one claims that _Apple_ is _homophobic_ , racist, sexist, and
| "very Trumpian":
|
| https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Apple-
| RVW1...
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > I'm running into all kinds of paywalls with Glassdoor and
| I don't want to register, but google searches make it look
| like pretty much every company under the sun has a
| Glassdoor review complaining of racism, sexism, etc. For
| instance this one claims that Apple is homophobic, racist,
| sexist, and "very Trumpian":
|
| The larger the company, the larger that departments will
| evolve their internal culture... and if team leads do not
| take care to prevent discriminatory bullshit, it _will_
| grow roots and fester.
|
| Every so often, I read here or on Reddit the question "why
| should companies involve themselves into kitchen room
| talk?"... the answer is simple: failure to do so will
| reflect _very_ negatively on your company 's image and thus
| its hiring perspectives. When I search for hotels, Amazon
| products, whatever - I don't go for the good reviews, I go
| for the bad ones.
| catiopatio wrote:
| From your bio:
|
| > _You call it "alt-left", I proudly call it "Antifa"_
|
| You're hardly representing an unbiased viewpoint, and
| this isn't a problem Apple has.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > You're hardly representing an unbiased viewpoint, and
| this isn't a problem Apple has.
|
| It absolutely _is_ a problem Apple has, judging by at
| least three lawsuits which I could find in literally 30
| seconds of Googling [1][2][3] - and it isn 't just recent
| claims either, I could find one that went back to 2001
| [4].
|
| And yes, a lack of diversity in hiring can also lead to
| other problems down the road, such as racial bias in
| sensors [5].
|
| All of these events could have been prevented by focusing
| on an inclusive corporate culture.
|
| [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/former-apple-lawyer-
| lawsuit-...
|
| [2] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/sep/03/ap
| pletoo-...
|
| [3] https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2019/10/black-
| employee-sues-...
|
| [4] https://www.wired.com/2001/11/apple-hit-with-racial-
| lawsuit/
|
| [5] https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2022/12/2
| 9/apple...
| tablespoon wrote:
| > It absolutely is a problem Apple has, judging by at
| least three lawsuits which I could find in literally 30
| seconds of Googling [1][2][3] - and it isn't just recent
| claims either, I could find one that went back to 2001
| [4].
|
| You're moving the goalposts. In your opinion, is being
| "very Trumpian" a problem that Apple has? Is Tim Cook
| running around in a MAGA hat and I totally did not
| notice?
|
| Edit: Regarding that 2001 article, it's just an article
| about a lawsuit being _filed_ , which _anyone_ can do
| whether they have a case or _not_. I haven 't yet found
| that case, but I found a similar one from 2005 by an
| apparently obese Black lesbian woman represented by the
| same law firm:
|
| Here's the trial order. Skimming it, it seems the
| plaintiff was a terrible employee and her case was so bad
| she and her lawyers were sanctioned for filing a
| frivolous lawsuit:
|
| https://casetext.com/case/patterson-v-apple-computer
|
| > Burmeister offered plaintiff an opportunity to support
| the Apple Hardware Engineering organization, believing
| that this opportunity would give her a chance to showcase
| her skills and build a base of support for her
| clients.... This assignment was not successful.
| Plaintiff's engineering clients, including Cheryl Smith
| ("Smith"), an African-American HR Senior Director, found
| plaintiff to be unresponsive, unhelpful, and rude. Smith
| believed plaintiff had minimal interpersonal skills.
| According to Smith, plaintiff frequently responded, "No,"
| or "That's not my job," when Smith sought her assistance.
| Plaintiff was also resistant to providing data on
| bonuses, stating that the task was hard. Smith received
| complaints from her HR team about plaintiff's attitude
| and refusal to perform work. These problems caused Smith
| ultimately to limit her interaction with Smith, and to
| seek intervention from Burmeister.
|
| > Judy Goodson ("Goodson"), another African-American HR
| Director, found plaintiff to be often unavailable, rude,
| disrespectful, and negative. To create an opportunity for
| plaintiff, Goodson invited her to make a presentation to
| a Senior Vice President and his staff. However, plaintiff
| declined....
|
| > According to plaintiff's colleague Deborah House
| ("House"), plaintiff was frequently absent from
| department staff meetings and quarterly HR Department
| meetings. According to Burmeister, plaintiff was rude to
| her colleagues in the Compensation Group, prompting
| Burmeister to counsel her repeatedly about her
| inappropriate tone, demeanor, and ability to work with
| others and be a team player.
|
| > Plaintiff's work day was also interrupted by ongoing
| personal appointments and activities. She maintained a
| standing weekly hair appointment during working hours.
| Starting in February 2002, she commenced weekly sessions
| with a psychologist whose office was in Oakland,
| approximately 60 miles from Apple's Cupertino offices.
| She also spent up to and hour and a half a day trading
| her personal stock portfolio, and at other times played
| video games and did crossword puzzles on her computer.
|
| > Plaintiff believed she was entitled to yearly merit
| increases and promotions. However, Apple had a salary
| freeze in effect from the time plaintiff was hired until
| late 2003. Thus, the first opportunity for plaintiff to
| receive a merit increase was in connection with the
| review cycle in November 2003. When plaintiff learned
| that she was not receiving a merit increase, she accessed
| two Apple databases during work hours to obtain
| confidential salary and tenure information regarding
| certain of her colleagues....
|
| > Subsequently, as part of the investigation, plaintiff
| met with Parker and Hull. Plaintiff confirmed that she
| had accessed and reviewed her manager's and co-workers'
| salaries and confidential information independent of any
| business reason. She considered it appropriate to access
| the information, and admitted that she had distributed
| the information to her attorney and therapist. She also
| confirmed that she had chosen to use a personal laptop
| for her work at Apple, and therefore possessed
| confidential Apple information on that laptop. At the
| conclusion of the meeting, Parker told plaintiff she was
| suspended with pay pending the outcome of the
| investigation....
|
| > On November 18, 2003, plaintiff filed a charge of
| discrimination with the EEOC (charge No. 377-2004-00145),
| alleging discrimination on the basis of race, and
| retaliation for engaging in protected activities.
|
| > The court finds that the motion must be GRANTED.
| Plaintiff has provided no facts to support the racial
| harassment claim against Walker, failed to state any
| factual or legal basis for the retaliation claim or the
| defamation claim against Walker, and stated no facts
| showing that her invasion of privacy claim was well-
| grounded in fact or law. On more than one occasion,
| defendants put plaintiff on notice that her claims
| against Walker were frivolous, but plaintiff persisted...
|
| > The court awards defendants $5,000 in sanctions against
| plaintiff and her counsel, the Law Offices of Waukeen Q.
| McCoy.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > You're moving the goalposts. In your opinion, is being
| "very Trumpian" a problem that Apple has? Is Tim Cook
| running around in a MAGA hat and I totally did not
| notice?
|
| I never set goalposts to begin with ffs. The post my
| original reply was aimed at claimed that:
|
| > > I'm thinking those accusations are probably just
| slurs by someone with a grudge.
|
| To which I replied that essentially every organization
| will have bad apples and it's good corporate governance
| to weed these bad apples out.
|
| Then, in response to someone else thinking it might be a
| civilized idea to claim I might be biased in favor of
| anti-discrimination, I listed sources proving a decades-
| long history of Apple teams and leadership being
| independently accused of discrimination because
| apparently one needs to prove what should be common
| sense, and now you come on and accuse me of moving
| goalposts? WTF?
|
| > Edit: Regarding that 2001 article, it's just an article
| about a lawsuit being filed, which anyone can do whether
| they have a case or not. I haven't yet found that case,
| but I found a similar one from 2005:
|
| Just saw your edit as well. Yes, people can feel free to
| file whatever claims they want, but the key thing is that
| there is a _pattern_ of allegations. It is the very
| nature of discrimination claims that they are excessively
| hard to prove unless you have recordings or someone
| willing to act as a witness and burn themselves along
| with you on blacklists.
| catiopatio wrote:
| You're exhibiting exactly the kind of "bad apple"
| behavior that organizations must weed out to stay healthy
| -- not unlike the people that filed those frivolous
| lawsuits and ridiculous public claims.
|
| You're primed to see your ideological enemies hiding
| everywhere, and so you do.
| tablespoon wrote:
| > Just saw your edit as well. Yes, people can feel free
| to file whatever claims they want, but the key thing is
| that there is a pattern of allegations. It is the very
| nature of discrimination claims that they are excessively
| hard to prove unless you have recordings or someone
| willing to act as a witness and burn themselves along
| with you on blacklists.
|
| I don't know if you saw my subsequent edit (and long
| quotes from the court), but the case I found was
| frivolous.
|
| A "pattern of allegations" doesn't prove anything if the
| allegations are lies. People lie all the time. They can
| even _lie to themselves_ and convince themselves they
| were wronged to avoid dealing with their own problems.
| KyeRussell wrote:
| Forgive me for hesitating to trust some HN rando's
| assertion that a big tech company *doesn't^ have white
| boy culture issues.
| marcellus23 wrote:
| Terms like "white boy culture issues" are a bit below the
| (admittedly low) standard of discourse on this site.
| hintymad wrote:
| > "racism, sexism, and abuse" without backing it up with facts.
|
| Yeah, I was turned off by this too. Unfortunately this is the
| psyche of the western world. You disagree with me? You're
| racist. You think bias in an ML model comes from bias in data.
| You're a bigot. Such accusation works and LeCun apologizes.
| creatonez wrote:
| This is not "the psyche of the western world", this is a
| ridiculous caricature you came up with.
| eis wrote:
| This is the second time that Monty left a company that he had no
| control over even though it was his software "baby" that the
| company was selling. At least the first time he made some good
| money. But I'm not sure if that is the case this time.
|
| Third time's the charm? Monty you should retain control over the
| companies that you want to sell your product under. If you don't
| control over 50% then it's not "your company" anymore.
| bombcar wrote:
| Maybe he has enough money to be comfortable and should just
| work on a non-profit doing database things.
| PeterZaitsev wrote:
| After leaving Sun Monty in fact started Monty Programming AB -
| company he started based on "Hacking Business Models"
| https://hbm.mariadb.org/
|
| It was really company "ran by engineers" focused on developers.
| Later though he merged with "SkySQL" and the company became
| MariaDB Corporation
| robocat wrote:
| > If you don't control over 50%
|
| Founders will virtually always lose control once they hop on
| the investor conveyor belt. It can happen as soon as Round A
| e.g. VC wants 25% with 10% option pool and seed investors owns
| 15% (say due to carry along provisions) - et voila - founder
| diluted to 50%! It often is inevitable as soon as a founder
| takes seed money because (a) if you must take seed you probably
| need future cash for competitive growth, and (b) seed investors
| define expectation of future VC rounds (e.g. YC demo day). The
| well known exceptions where founders retained control are
| outliers.
|
| Furthermore, founders are third class because investors get
| first class preferential shares. Preferential shares have a
| variety of powerful benefits over common shares - including
| rights to oust the founders (under conditions that will usually
| occur: VCs take advantage of the natural optimism of founders).
|
| Even worse: the game is systematically rigged against founders,
| because VCs are "the house" and have been setting up the rules
| while playing multiple games for decades, but it is usually a
| founders first game. Bacon and egg breakfast: where the
| founders are the fully committed pigs providing the bacon, but
| the investors are chickens providing the eggs. 10 years of life
| is one hock. If a founder wins a game and want to play again,
| then a founder often starts their own casino by doing seed
| rounds. Sometimes a successful founder can afford to start a
| new business without using VC investment (self-invests).
|
| VC capital can be a drug worth taking if you fully manage your
| risks. Just beware that the industry rule-of-thumb is that 90%
| of the time a founder has an expected payout of approximately
| $0.
|
| The YCombinator casino is a bit of an exception because they
| better understand how much a founder is worth so they help
| founders play games with other casinos. But you still can't
| argue that your sweat equity should be equally worth dollars
| invested: a software developer taking a $100k paycut for the
| first year of a startup should receive $100k of preferential
| shares - but I have never heard of that happening. Subtle game
| play.
| geenat wrote:
| Bit of a nail in the coffin for me as of late.
|
| * No async drivers.
|
| * Total freezeup bug that only appears when MariaDB is under high
| load, since mid-2021 (10.6), not yet addressed.
|
| * Postgres 15 outperforming MariaDB in both my own SELECT and
| INSERT benchmarks. Up to double performance for INSERT.
|
| * Less and less compatibility with MySQL. Vitess dropping
| MariaDB.
|
| * Postgres has a lighter setup, super fast compile in 2023.
| Standalone / portable Postgres is amazing:
| https://gist.github.com/gnat/cfe3754c3dc817c7fb8b2225ef4db62...
|
| I do enjoy the MariaDB / MySQL tooling and syntax way more as a
| developer, and MaxScale etc. seems good, but there's only so much
| BS i'm willing to deal with when Postgres exists.
| codr7 wrote:
| Postgres was the first relational database I came into contact
| with, Interbase the second and Oracle the third.
|
| Lately I've been writing a REST back end on top of MariaDB at
| work, and I swear it's going to drive me insane with its
| arbitrary limitations.
|
| At least SQLite offers something in return that Postgres can't
| do.
| 5e92cb50239222b wrote:
| > At least SQLite offers something in return that Postgres
| can't do.
|
| If you're going to throw allegations around, at least get
| your facts straight. MariaDB and MySQL support complex
| replication topologies out of the box, including multi-
| master. Yes, it does come in useful if implemented correctly:
| we built a business application for a particular setup with
| many branches around the country, many of which have very
| unreliable network and must be able to continue working with
| a local database when that network is not available. It has
| been running for 4-5 years without issues.
|
| They're also much easier to support: for example, upgrades
| are handled automatically -- no need to dump and restore or
| resort to weird tricks; you can easily upgrade through ten
| major versions just by installing the latest version and
| restarting the daemon.
|
| Some other features off the top of my mind: compression
| (zlib, lz4, lzo, zstd), versioned tables (an absolute life-
| saver if you need audit).
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > we built a business application for a particular setup
| with many branches around the country, many of which have
| very unreliable network and must be able to continue
| working with a local database when that network is not
| available. It has been running for 4-5 years without
| issues.
|
| How do you deal with reconciling after a connection loss?
| Is your client application read-only / the data sharded in
| a way that it doesn't matter for other branches if one
| branch is offline?
| TylerE wrote:
| If you think that's bad, you weren't around for the MYiASM (I
| think it was.. days).
|
| Yeah, for years, MySQL shipped with a default storage format
| that _didn 't enforce constraints_.
| dakna wrote:
| To be fair,in those days MyISAM was pretty much the only DB
| engine that could keep up with the traffic growth rates of
| the early web, because it didn't enforce constraints. It
| was optimized for reads, not writes, and was fast enough to
| hold all state in one DB server for heavy traffic sites.
| Combined with stateless PHP and memory caching it was the
| best tool to use for this use case.
|
| That it wasn't the best engine for all use cases and also
| corrupted data on disk occasionally is a different story.
| Once InnoDb was ready, you could just mix and match engines
| in one DB server as far as I remember and use referential
| constraints where needed.
|
| Later MongoDB marketed itself as "web scale" due to no
| schema constraints at all. Fun times.
| zinclozenge wrote:
| What kind of tooling does MariaDB/MySQL have that you miss when
| using Postgres? I'm not nearly as knowledgeable about the
| ecosystem as I am with Postgres.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > What kind of tooling does MariaDB/MySQL have that you miss
| when using Postgres?
|
| Easy upgrades? With MySQL it has never been more involved
| than running apt-get dist-upgrade/docker rm mysql && docker
| run mysql/kubectl deploy, depending on the stack. Downtimes
| of less than two minutes.
|
| In contrast, PostgreSQL is such a hassle to upgrade that I
| only do it when forced to by an application dropping support
| for the current major version.
| Conan_Kudo wrote:
| This 100%. I love PostgreSQL, but I rolled out MariaDB for
| my personal servers because I like not spending time doing
| weird things for upgrading the database software.
| nophunphil wrote:
| Not tooling, but the big one for me is the ability to reorder
| columns via ALTER statements.
| JeremyNT wrote:
| I'm curious too, but my suspicion is that it's "the devil you
| know" at play here.
|
| If you work with a tech for long enough you get the tooling
| "figured out" and things can feel like second nature. Maybe
| some alternative has equally "good" tooling (for however you
| define "good") but it may have slightly different quirks,
| strengths, and weaknesses. The fact that you have to figure
| that stuff out is itself a negative.
| jjluoma wrote:
| I would like to know more about those insurances, have they
| bought new ones? If so, are those really going to cover anything
| at all they would like to be covered? If there has been
| negligence, breach of duty or breach of trust in the past, why
| would a new insurance cover those?
| NelsonMinar wrote:
| Another SPAC story.
| bratao wrote:
| I'm very sad that MariaDB is in this state. MySQL it still a very
| powerful database. For someone looking for alternatives, I
| recommend the Percona Distribution of MySQL.
| https://www.percona.com/software/mysql-database/percona-serv...
| daneel_w wrote:
| It's the commercial limb that has developed gangrene, not the
| software, not its founder, nor the developers. The software is
| (so far) not in any immediate danger.
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