[HN Gopher] Byte Mini PC Powered by AMD - Get notified when avai...
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       Byte Mini PC Powered by AMD - Get notified when available
        
       Author : abudabi123
       Score  : 53 points
       Date   : 2023-04-04 20:04 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (starlabs.systems)
 (TXT) w3m dump (starlabs.systems)
        
       | oblak wrote:
       | Looked somewhat exciting until I saw the following: "From
       | EUR749,70 Excludes Duties and taxes. Excludes Delivery"
       | 
       | That's a bit steep. I am all for OSS but comparable machines
       | (even newer than Renoir) are considerably cheaper.
       | 
       | I've been toying with the idea of grabbing a 5800u/H unit off
       | AliExpress since Pis have been hard to get by, and kind of old
       | and slow. There was a 5800H/16/512 for just 300 euro last
       | weekend. Kind of regret not pulling the trigger on that one.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | znpy wrote:
         | Software might be free, but hardware is not.
        
       | oneplane wrote:
       | If only it came with 2x NBase-T or at least 2x2.5G...
        
       | user_named wrote:
       | Looks nice but it's too bad they don't offer it with windows.
        
         | bacchusracine wrote:
         | >windows
         | 
         | Why would you want to make it _less_ useful?
        
           | tomxor wrote:
           | It must be nostalgia over the fight of getting a Windows
           | license refund.
        
       | sosodev wrote:
       | It says it can use USB-C for power delivery but the only USB-C
       | port is on the front of the device. Makes it seem like they
       | expect most people to power it via the barrel plug.
       | 
       | Also, the APU used here is already fairly outdated for a mini PC.
       | So I'm not sure what makes this valuable over the many other mini
       | PC options.
        
         | olyjohn wrote:
         | Also I have noticed this trend where there is no audio output
         | on the back. I don't want to connect my speakers to my monitor,
         | or have a cable hanging off the front of the PC. A front port
         | is convenient, but should not be the primary audio output.
        
       | PietKachelhout wrote:
       | Using USB-C for power is great! Smaller power supplies and no
       | more non-standard connectors that are hard to replace.
        
         | kiwijamo wrote:
         | That's why I'm surprised they only include one USB-C port. If
         | you use that for power input can't use it for anything else. I
         | expect machines released in 2023 to have at least two
         | especially if it supports USB-C power input.
        
         | usrusr wrote:
         | True. If you have to sell with a cheap single voltage power
         | adapter (instead of selling either completely without or with a
         | more expensive USB PD one), you should at least have both
         | inputs, the custom DC socket for your cheap wall-wart and a USB
         | PD client for when the user wants to slim down the size of
         | their power adapter zoo.
        
       | grodriguez100 wrote:
       | "From 762,30EUR" here.
       | 
       | So everyone is seeing a different price apparently.
       | 
       | Not sure if this is a social experiment or a joke. Or both.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Different tax rates based on country, probably.
        
         | playingalong wrote:
         | I guess it's calculated on the fly based on a live feed of
         | currency rates
        
       | nebula8804 wrote:
       | I bought one of those Minisforums Mini PCs with a Ryzen processor
       | like two years ago, it now sits collecting dust. This M1 Mac mini
       | that I use as my daily runs circles around it in every
       | performance metric.
       | 
       | I see this has open source firmware. Great. You will be giving up
       | a lot with that chip compared to M1 though. Asashi Linux may not
       | be 100% complete but I hear it is pretty good. Might warrant a
       | consideration if you can run your software in the ARM world. In
       | my mind there is just too much to give up when going back to such
       | a legacy platform such as this one.
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | I looked a bit at how AMD is doing vs. Apple. These current
         | chips are all 65W TDP and up:
         | 
         | https://www.amd.com/en/processors/ryzen-for-creators#
         | 
         | (vs. the Byte Mini's 45W), but they mostly have base
         | frequencies above 4.4GHz. One of the slower chips in the
         | current lineup beats the M2 on absolute performance (with a
         | higher TDP):
         | 
         | https://versus.com/en/amd-ryzen-7-7700-vs-apple-m2
         | 
         | It's per core speed is comparable, but it has twice as many
         | cores.
         | 
         | This old (2018) chip is 45W, but it's _boost_ is only 4GHz:
         | 
         | https://versus.com/en/amd-ryzen-7-2700e-vs-apple-m2
         | 
         | so that's a lower bound on the AMD side. It's about the same
         | speed as the M2 when using all cores (half as fast per core).
         | 
         | Assuming they're targeting something AMD just released, and not
         | something 5 years old, and the "up to 4.4GHz" is talking about
         | base frequency, not turbo, then I'd expect this to be extremely
         | competitive with the M2 Mac Mini. (As it better be, since it
         | seems to be more expensive than the Mac!)
         | 
         | I wish they'd say what processors they are targeting.
        
         | olyjohn wrote:
         | Well, glad your M1 Mac Mini runs circles around some random
         | mini PC. This is really great information, with detailed data
         | that really shows how much better the M1 chip is than any other
         | processor ever made. This really relates a lot to the system
         | being reviewed too.
        
         | CameronNemo wrote:
         | One thing Apple can't (or won't) compete on is price for RAM
         | and storage.
         | 
         | I have 32GB of RAM and 1 TB of storage, that cost me $200
         | total. The CPU and barebones mini pc (5600G, ASRock DeskMini) I
         | bought are about $200 each. So $600 total.
         | 
         | Meanwhile I can't even buy a base model M1 or M2 mac mini with
         | 32 GB of RAM, and 24GB of RAM is $400. 1 TB of storage is
         | another $400.
         | 
         | The Mac option turns out to be roughly twice as much, for a
         | pretty comparable system (including single core speed!). Even
         | if I want more storage, I can have it for an extra $100 or so.
        
           | bpye wrote:
           | Given that a Mac Mini has USB 4 you could connect an M2 drive
           | with an adapter and still get good perf. That still has some
           | additional cost though, and doesn't address RAM.
        
           | nebula8804 wrote:
           | I concede Apple does not sell low bandwidth spec parts. Only
           | one bandwidth. What is the memory bandwidth of the AsRock
           | compared to the Mac Mini? Is it a bottom binned spec? At this
           | point it is well known that they solder the memory dies onto
           | the chip to get a specific memory bandwidth that a slot would
           | not be able to provide. Some of the magic of the M1 is due in
           | part to this design.
           | 
           | Yes for storage the M1 is more opaque. They claim this is the
           | only way they can provide truly secure trusted boot. Its
           | questionable but at least the theory seems to be holding up.
           | I give them the benefit of the doubt just because the machine
           | truly feels like it is from the future. It is like the
           | desktop perfected. If it was anything less than the rocket it
           | is we'd be having a different conversation and I'd give more
           | credence to your claims. As it stands to me, the value of the
           | platform exceeds that additional memory/storage upcharge.
           | 
           | >>The Mac option turns out to be roughly twice as much, for a
           | pretty comparable system (including single core speed!). Even
           | if I want more storage, I can have it for an extra $100 or
           | so.
           | 
           | Are you sure about this being "comparable"? This is so much
           | legacy in these x86/64 designs that either they are slower
           | per given clock or they have to compensate with increased fan
           | speeds/power consumption. The minisforum I have was a popular
           | Ryzen 5 machine being pushed by all the youtuber people two
           | years ago. (Minisforum DMAF5). It was slow out of the box and
           | is now even more slow about 2 years later. Even this system
           | being advertised here has to use a GaN Charger to cover up
           | the fact that they are needing a more powerful wattage than
           | the equivalent Mac would need (65w vs ~45w) That right there
           | is more evidence that the design can't possibly be more
           | efficient than the M1. (not to mention the PSU is integrated
           | into the case on the Mac!)
           | 
           | This is such a common trope with PC people, they ignore
           | design and value it at 0.
        
         | antisthenes wrote:
         | > I bought one of those Minisforums Mini PCs with a Ryzen
         | processor like two years ago, it now sits collecting dust.
         | 
         | Cool. Sell it to me? I have tons of use cases for it.
        
           | nebula8804 wrote:
           | The value of the PC has probably dropped so low that I
           | wouldn't feel happy giving it away for a paltry amount of
           | money instead of holding onto it in the hopes of possibly
           | doing something with it one day. I hoard old computers. You
           | don't want to see my basement. For now it will sit collecting
           | dust.
        
       | geraneum wrote:
       | While we're at it, maybe Minis Forum could be a good alternative,
       | price wise. I am thinking about getting one of their devices
       | suitable for home lab.
       | 
       | P.S not affiliated, just curious.
       | 
       | https://www.minisforum.com/
        
       | shmerl wrote:
       | Is it using the new Zen 4 + RDNA 3 APU?
       | 
       | 2 HDMIs seems excessive. It would be better to have DisplayPort
       | instead.
        
         | sosodev wrote:
         | No, it's a 5800u so it's Zen 3 + Radeon. Not even RDNA 2.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | mdmglr wrote:
       | One can buy small form factor/mini pc's with not the latest
       | hardware but reasonably powerful hardware on eBay from it
       | recyclers for 1/4 the price.
        
       | CameronNemo wrote:
       | Why is this any better than an ASRock DeskMini X300? AFAICT that
       | option is cheaper and offers better storage options.
       | 
       | They advertise coreboot support, but on specifications it says
       | CoreBoot is coming soon. AFAIK Coreboot does not support Zen3 or
       | any recent AMD CPUs. How will they be able to offer it?
        
         | fbdab103 wrote:
         | That DeskMini is a pretty attractive option at ~$160 for the
         | barebones kit. I wonder if you could undervolt things enough to
         | be passively cooled.
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | For a fanless version, you can buy
           | https://www.cirrus7.com/en/produkte/cirrus7-incus/.
        
           | Chico75 wrote:
           | you can also fit a Noctua NF-A9x14 PWM fan in there, which
           | provides a good balance of ventilation to noise ratio.
        
         | openmapsguy wrote:
         | Looks like Coreboot support for 5000 series landed recently:
         | https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-Open-Source-FW-2023
        
           | CameronNemo wrote:
           | This is (very welcome) news to me. Hopefully Starlabs can
           | actually bring it to market, because that would be a good
           | differentiator.
        
       | threatofrain wrote:
       | Anyone have a case suggestion for a mini NAS build?
        
         | chrismeller wrote:
         | I know, I know, it's LTT, but I really loved the case in this
         | NAS build they did recently:
         | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=boKmZKTKXHc
        
           | vamega wrote:
           | The new N2 from that company also looks very interesting.
        
       | 1024core wrote:
       | "From $771.00" ...
        
       | openmapsguy wrote:
       | Firmware updates for the BIOS, Embedded Controller and SSD are
       | just a click away with the power of the LVFS.
       | 
       | Pretty awesome to see this become more common.
        
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       (page generated 2023-04-04 23:02 UTC)