[HN Gopher] Gitlab foundation established to increase people's l...
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       Gitlab foundation established to increase people's lifetime
       earnings
        
       Author : pyrodactyl
       Score  : 32 points
       Date   : 2023-04-03 16:11 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.gitlabfoundation.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.gitlabfoundation.org)
        
       | rcme wrote:
       | If Gitlab wants to increase peoples' lifetime earning, why not
       | start with its own employees? Didn't they layoff hundreds of
       | people?
        
         | sosodev wrote:
         | Yes, they let go 130 employees a couple of months ago. They're
         | also a company whose remote pay is dependent on location. So
         | they're unwilling to pay people what they're actually worth.
        
           | HatchedLake721 wrote:
           | Evil GitLab is unwilling to pay people what they're actually
           | worth. Poor GitLab employees worldwide cannot resist from
           | being taken advantage of and have to work for unworthy
           | amounts...
           | 
           | Every time GitLab comes up someone will bring this topic up.
           | 
           | San Francisco salaries are not a worldwide benchmark of
           | people's worth.
           | 
           | There are valid reasons why GitLab doesn't pay engineers in
           | Kenya $200k.
           | 
           | Should I also swing your logic the other way?
           | 
           | If an engineer in Kenya for $50k does the same work and
           | output as you, a $200k engineer in SF, can we now say you're
           | being overpaid 4x what you're actually worth?
           | 
           | If people don't understand why companies pays local labour
           | market rates, either look at GitLab's income statement and
           | multiply 2000 employees by your definition of "worth" or
           | start your own business and show how everyone in the world
           | can pay 8 billion people the same salaries. Good luck.
           | 
           | https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/total-
           | rewards/compensation...
           | 
           | https://about.gitlab.com/blog/2019/02/28/why-we-pay-local-
           | ra...
        
             | leereeves wrote:
             | > If an engineer in Kenya for $50k does the same work and
             | output as you, a $200k engineer in SF, can we now say
             | you're being overpaid 4x what you're actually worth?
             | 
             | No. If GitLab thought the work was only worth $50k, they
             | wouldn't pay anyone anywhere $200k for the job.
             | 
             | If they do pay $200k for the job anywhere, they must expect
             | to receive more than $200k in return, and pocket the
             | difference.
        
               | ojosilva wrote:
               | It doesn't work like that. It's more like: there's a 250k
               | budget. We got an ex-googler-ex-meta-kid for 200k, so
               | that leaves us 50k for a... Kenya engineer. Then, once
               | both are on-boarded, gee, the Kenya engineer is twice as
               | productive as the googler kid. Jackpot!
        
           | 908B64B197 wrote:
           | > They're also a company whose remote pay is dependent on
           | location. So they're unwilling to pay people what they're
           | actually worth.
           | 
           | They are also paying significantly less than their
           | competitors. No wonder they are falling behind.
           | 
           | I have no clue what this "foundation" is, the wording is
           | extremely vague.
        
           | pmoriarty wrote:
           | _" They're also a company whose remote pay is dependent on
           | location."_
           | 
           | What is it with companies doing this? It never made sense to
           | me that a company would pay me more or less depending on
           | where I lived. If I'm doing the same work why should my
           | location matter?
        
             | rrgok wrote:
             | Oh man, I agree with you. The typical answer is: market.
             | 
             | But on a side note, this should make us blatantly clear
             | that, all else being equal, our work has no inherent value.
        
             | robopsychology wrote:
             | I use it to my advantage - if I'm remote working for the
             | Bay Area I can double my local salary but still be
             | significantly lower than a Bay Area local.
        
           | prepend wrote:
           | People are not paid based on their value. They are paid based
           | on what the labor market drives. There's some relationship to
           | value, but it depends on how many people can and are willing
           | to do the job.
        
         | TheCoelacanth wrote:
         | That would result in a $1 increase per dollar spent, which is
         | 1% of the ROI they're aiming for.
        
         | HopenHeyHi wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
         | phailhaus wrote:
         | Increasing people's lifetime earnings != "you shouldn't be
         | allowed to fire anyone, ever." I mean come on.
        
       | smcleod wrote:
       | I wonder what the research shows behind increasing peoples
       | profits vs decreasing cost of living vs affecting non-financial
       | changes on peoples quality of life and happiness.
       | 
       | Massive over simplification but surely if everyone keeps trying
       | to earn more money - that money has to come from somewhere,
       | inflation happens and we're at where we are now all over again.
       | The game is rigged.
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | > _Massive over simplification but surely if everyone keeps
         | trying to earn more money - that money has to come from
         | somewhere, inflation happens and we 're at where we are now all
         | over again. The game is rigged._
         | 
         | Humans do not all learn at the same rate. We will not be "where
         | we are now all over again", as many people will be much smarter
         | and more experienced.
        
           | smcleod wrote:
           | They're talking about earning though - not learning.
        
             | sneak wrote:
             | Earning more money over time is a skill, one that people
             | learn after they are born and begin participating in the
             | economy.
             | 
             | Not everyone acquires this skill at the same rate. Some
             | never acquire it. Some acquire it and leave it at an
             | average level. Some are constantly trying to level up this
             | skill.
        
       | sosodev wrote:
       | I'm very skeptical of their "North Star". They want the "lifetime
       | earnings" of individuals to increase by 100x their investment.
       | Isn't it extremely difficult to even measure this metric? That is
       | something that would take decades to measure. You can't just
       | extrapolate on temporary increases because people lose/change
       | jobs regularly.
       | 
       | They don't define anywhere in their handbook how they're actually
       | going to measure this AFAICT.
        
       | thomasjb wrote:
       | The handbook which is linked is both irritating to navigate, and
       | seemingly anemic. There are, however, hints as to their specific
       | future funding activities, which include Offline Freecodecamp and
       | Last Mile, with hints in the Activities section that lead me to
       | deduce that the activities will be in the communities where Last
       | Mile and the like work. Which is admirable. The results-focused
       | aspect is different to any I've come across before, and I'll be
       | interested to see if there's any future update on how they
       | actually do.
        
       | kayson wrote:
       | I know they're just starting, but this is so vague...
       | 
       | > grow their lifetime earnings through education, training,
       | access to opportunities, and systems change on a global scale
       | 
       | What is their actual plan? What opportunities? What systems?
       | 
       | I hope they make a positive impact but so far it just seems like
       | marketing hype.
        
         | vsareto wrote:
         | There are some concrete examples here, but it really feels like
         | most of the opportunities are around software as that's still
         | the lowest-barrier, training-time-efficient, highest paying job
         | you can learn remotely. That's by far the easiest way to reach
         | their 1:100 investment/income ratio.
         | 
         | https://gitlabfoundation.notion.site/Activities-47c282c91b54...
         | 
         | https://gitlabfoundation.notion.site/Intervention-Points-50f...
        
           | adamredwoods wrote:
           | Hypothetically, if every one does the same career, then all
           | salaries will decrease in that career. Supply / demand.
           | 
           | We need a healthy, heterogeneous career market. Driving
           | everyone to become programmers isn't it.
        
       | metaphor wrote:
       | Relevant S-3 ASR[1] filed last week Friday.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1653482/000162828023...
        
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       (page generated 2023-04-03 23:02 UTC)