[HN Gopher] Birds with neurotoxin-laden feathers discovered in N...
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Birds with neurotoxin-laden feathers discovered in New Guinea
Author : gmays
Score : 55 points
Date : 2023-04-03 14:44 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (phys.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (phys.org)
| retrac wrote:
| Birds with toxic feathers are already known, for those wondering,
| though many species in New Guinea are unstudied; much of the
| interior is very hard to access to this day:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooded_pitohui
|
| It's thought they do not produce the toxin themselves. It's
| absorbed from their diet, probably from toxic frogs that use the
| same compounds. They have developed a resistance and ability to
| concentrate it in the skin and feathers. Supposedly, some species
| are so toxic that simply holding one in bare hands will result in
| a creeping numbing sensation climbing up one's arms. Fortunately
| it's reversible in small amounts.
| stametseater wrote:
| > _It 's thought they do not produce the toxin themselves. It's
| absorbed from their diet, probably from toxic frogs that use
| the same compounds._
|
| From what I understand, those frogs in turn acquire the toxin
| from their diet of various arthropods, and aren't toxic when
| kept in captivity. Makes me wonder how long a chain of diet-
| acquired toxicity could stretch.
| _a_a_a_ wrote:
| It would stop at me. I'd eat it and die. So there's your
| upper bound.
| klyrs wrote:
| You assume that nobody would eat you. (which is probably
| fine in practice, but in theory...)
| Huludrawn wrote:
| > It's absorbed from their diet, probably from toxic frogs that
| use the same compounds.
|
| Hey can you tell me where you read that? I went through a lot
| of articles and most suggest that insects are the most likely
| source of the toxin. Maybe I missed something.
| pelagicAustral wrote:
| Not directly mentioning frogs but this [0] paper offers more
| details on the particular toxin type (Batrachotoxin), which
| in turn. is present in bettles, birds and frogs [1].
|
| Also, check this argument suggesting they evolved (frogs and
| birds) the compound in parallel. [2]
|
| > Homobatrachotoxin is a member of a class of compounds
| collectively called batrachotoxins that were previously
| considered to be restricted to neotropical poison-dart frogs
| of the genus Phyllobates. The occurrence of homobatrachotoxin
| in pitohuis suggests that birds and frogs independently
| evolved this class of alkaloids.
|
| [0] Dumbacher, J. P., & Fleischer, R. C. (2001). Phylogenetic
| evidence for colour pattern convergence in toxic pitohuis:
| Mullerian mimicry in birds? Proceedings of the Royal Society
| B: Biological Sciences, 268(1480), 1971-1976.
| doi:10.1098/rspb.2001.1717
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batrachotoxin
|
| [2] Dumbacher, J., Beehler, B., Spande, T., Garraffo, H., &
| Daly, J. (1992). Homobatrachotoxin in the genus Pitohui:
| chemical defense in birds? Science, 258(5083), 799-801.
| doi:10.1126/science.1439786
| Huludrawn wrote:
| Thanks for the input and the additional information.
| retrac wrote:
| No, you're correct. I misremembered; the way the birds
| acquire the toxin is analogous to some poison frogs that are
| toxic the same way. Acquired through diet of poisonous
| insects. Apologies.
| Huludrawn wrote:
| Hey, no problem. I was genuinely curious, as I have only
| read about insects.
| m3kw9 wrote:
| The indignious people say it tastes spicy, I think thats awesome
| to have naturally spicy meats.
| dylan604 wrote:
| which is interesting that it hits those specific taste buds vs
| the sweet or salty parts. my first guess would have been it
| would affect them all equally. do we have more spicy receptors
| vs the other types so that if they are all being hit equally,
| spicy wins?
| m3kw9 wrote:
| Likely the chemical structure is similar to "hotness"
| carabiner wrote:
| All taste buds can detect all basic tastes, and the taste map
| we saw as a kid is wrong.
| https://www.winchesterhospital.org/health-
| library/article?id...
| dylan604 wrote:
| oh gawd, next you're going to tell me that we no longer
| need 2 spaces at the end of a sentence after punctuation.
| inkcapmushroom wrote:
| Spicy is technically not a taste, and our taste buds don't
| process spicy the same way other tastes are processed. It's
| instead a low level of pain sensation, which we interpret as
| a flavor when mixed with other "real" flavors. The same
| nerves which sense the spicy pain sensation also sense touch
| and heat, so the latter is probably why we associate spicy
| foods with a feeling of hotness. This is probably why spicy
| sensations can overrun other tastes so easily, because our
| bodies' pain reactions are very strong.
| jmclnx wrote:
| Wow, I hope the world can keep that rain forest pristine, but as
| you know, doing that will be very difficult.
| contingencies wrote:
| Malaysia and Indonesia are largely already flattened for palm
| oil plantations. Half of New Guinea is run by Indonesia. So
| indeed, the outlook is bad.
| hulitu wrote:
| The bad news that they are already studying it. Next come the
| tree cutters, oil extractors and farms.
| whinenot wrote:
| The US doesn't have many examples of an evolutionary arms race
| between species but there is a notable one happening in Oregon
| between salamanders and snakes.[0]
|
| [0]https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-a-deadly-
| camping-t...
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