[HN Gopher] Magnon-based computation could signal computing para...
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       Magnon-based computation could signal computing paradigm shift
        
       Author : isaacfrond
       Score  : 78 points
       Date   : 2023-04-01 12:01 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (phys.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (phys.org)
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | I'm still waiting for phononic computing to become a thing.
       | (Note: phononic, not photonic).
       | 
       | https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.4919584
        
       | javajosh wrote:
       | Life is too short to read articles titled "x-based y could signal
       | z paradigm shift" from phys.org.
        
         | kalimanzaro wrote:
         | Regrettable that academia didnt learn from industry how to
         | deploy, only how to spin. When everything is framed as an
         | "investment", researchers aren't incentivized to discover but
         | to squeeze out "returns" even when there arent much
        
           | mjburgess wrote:
           | Perhaps, more precisely, it's a shame that governments turned
           | research funding into a private sector game like start-up
           | funding.
           | 
           | It seems no mystery why western governments are saying insane
           | things like they need to be competitive in the quantum
           | computing space: their frontal-lobes (the research industry)
           | has been hijacked by the hype machines formerly constrained
           | to the private sector.
        
             | cycomanic wrote:
             | This really it's the nail on the head and it has other
             | consequences.
             | 
             | I was talking with a colleague about how it is to lead a
             | research group and essentially it is very much like running
             | a start up always in the phase of trying to attract funding
             | without the prospect of things ever becoming self
             | sustainable and there being a great monetary reward.
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | > Regrettable that academia didnt learn from industry how to
           | deploy, only how to spin.
           | 
           | Hey, this was from phys.org and spin matters a lot to certain
           | physicists!
           | 
           | More seriously: with funding being less prevalent and the
           | cultural shift to the dominance of commerce-worshipping
           | Gradgrinds, university press offices and even individual
           | professors are under a lot of pressure to point out the
           | practicality (which today means "marketability") of
           | everything, even an abstract mathematical proof!
           | 
           | I can't count how many academic presentations I've heard that
           | ended with 15-20 minutes with the author trying to justify
           | the work. They are professors, not business people, and they
           | almost always sound like they are struggling to jump through
           | that hoop. The time would have better been spent talking
           | further about the actual subject matter!
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | This is so bad it's not even clear what they are spinning. Is
           | this a memory device? A compute element? What?
           | 
           | Physicists have been fooling around with yttrium iron garnet
           | for decades.[1][2] It apparently has really weird
           | interactions between photons and magnetic fields. That's
           | promising, because semiconductors came from studying weird
           | interactions between electric charge and current flow in
           | unusual solid materials. Yttrium iron garnet been tried
           | experimentally for microwave phase-shifters and beam-forming
           | antennas, but doesn't seem to have appeared in products yet.
           | 
           | So, decades of papers, but no products yet. There's real
           | physics there, but the hype is overblown. Probably because
           | someone needs funding and grad students to work in this
           | obscure area.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/physics-and-
           | astronomy/y...
           | 
           | [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41535-017-0067-y.pdf
        
       | duckqlz wrote:
       | So if I am understanding correctly this YIG-nanomagnet device
       | expands on the work of spin-wave computation in a hybrid CMOS
       | setting and allows for read and write which would allow in memory
       | computation? How does a YIG-nanomagnet work? Does it hold its
       | state after a charge is applied or does it need a constant
       | amplitude to keep it in either a 0 or 1 state? I find this very
       | interesting and would love to read more about the work.
        
       | martinclayton wrote:
       | Shoehorned in a mention of AI...
       | 
       | Did I understand this right: they can do 0 to 1, but haven't
       | figured out 1 to 0 yet?
       | 
       | That's a big "could".
       | 
       | I don't like the tag links the site inserts in to the text. If
       | you follow one, you generate a nice extra hit on the site, but I
       | struggle to see the value.
        
         | ixtli wrote:
         | it's an ad for their lab and research. that was clear to me
         | before I clicked the link. I didn't know anything about
         | magnetic approaches to this tho so I appreciate the overview
         | tbh
        
       | formerly_proven wrote:
       | This is an alt name for spin wave conputing.
        
       | peter_d_sherman wrote:
       | >"Nanomagnet reversal happened only when the spin wave hit a
       | certain amplitude, and could then be used to write and read
       | data."
       | 
       | Reminds me of Mr. Spock (being tested by an automated AI test
       | administrator) in "Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home", when the AI
       | asks the following question:
       | 
       |  _" Adjust the sine wave of this magnetic envelope so that anti-
       | neutrons can pass through it but anti-gravitons can not..."_
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ooUXjNPS8&t=51s
       | 
       | (A classic line, still to this day! <g>)
        
       | bradhe wrote:
       | I'm old enough to remember when the memristor was going to signal
       | a computing paradigm shift.
        
         | marcosdumay wrote:
         | Memristors are inherently not practical, and there were plenty
         | of people pointing this at the time.
         | 
         | Magnetronics are an open question, nobody really knows how
         | useful it can be. (But they have more promise for energy
         | efficiency than miniaturization and cost-cutting.)
        
           | jiggawatts wrote:
           | > Memristors are inherently not practical
           | 
           | There were practical products based on it, shipped in volume!
           | 
           | What do you mean they were "inherently" not practical?
        
             | marcosdumay wrote:
             | Diffusion based products have a minimum size that prevents
             | they being used anywhere where they could be useful.
             | 
             | What practical products did you see?
        
         | Twirrim wrote:
         | HP still knocks the dust off that one every few years, touts
         | their major achievements towards it each time, and implies it's
         | only a couple of years until it'll hit the market.
         | 
         | It has been a few years, which means we're probably close to
         | the next round of articles.
        
           | monocasa wrote:
           | I heard a rumour that they sold of the IP rights piecemeal to
           | so many different entities that it's nearly impossible to
           | actually legally use the technology in a product anymore.
        
       | imglorp wrote:
       | Isn't there a little law of thermodynamics here about doing work
       | and dissipating energy?
        
         | User23 wrote:
         | Reversible computers avoid this by producing arbitrarily little
         | entropy
        
           | Aardwolf wrote:
           | How do you deal with all the output "garbage" signals that
           | reversible computing produces? Do they all get sent
           | somewhere, and the place where they get sent to discards them
           | but heats up?
        
             | User23 wrote:
             | From my recollection of the Feynman lectures on the
             | subject, basically yes. Nevertheless the overall
             | theoretical efficiency is still considerably higher than an
             | irreversible machine.
             | 
             | It's not an area where I've followed the subsequent
             | research though. I'd be delighted if someone who knows more
             | chimed in. There are also some obvious advantages for being
             | able to choose precisely when you do a reset and generate
             | your waste heat.
        
             | nextaccountic wrote:
             | Being able to choose where you want do dissipate heat would
             | be a game changer in itself
        
             | sudosysgen wrote:
             | The garbage output signals get recycled indefinitely. Only
             | the useful output ever needs to generate heat.
             | 
             | It was thought for some time that they needed be turned to
             | heat, but that's actually untrue. Using quantum gates, it
             | is possible to do an arbitrary classical computation and
             | recycle the anciliary bits.
        
         | akjssdk wrote:
         | To be clear, there is some dissipation with magnons, just a lot
         | less than Joule heating. But exciting a magnon will heat up
         | your sample, because magnons don't live forever and decay after
         | some time. That energy has to go somewhere.
        
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