[HN Gopher] Hexatrek: The long distance thru hike in France
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Hexatrek: The long distance thru hike in France
        
       Author : carabiner
       Score  : 229 points
       Date   : 2023-04-01 04:14 UTC (18 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.hexatrek.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.hexatrek.com)
        
       | aj7 wrote:
       | What do the elevations mean?
        
         | Mordisquitos wrote:
         | I believe they are referring to the cumulative elevation gain
         | [0], which is essentially the sum of all increases in altitude
         | during the route, without subtracting loss of altitude by
         | descent. While in theory this implies potentially different
         | values depending on which direction the route is taken, overall
         | the difference between both values is just the difference in
         | sea level between each end of the route, which may be
         | negligible.
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulative_elevation_gain
        
       | vrglvrglvrgl wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | jbgreer wrote:
       | For alternate long distance French routes, check out Chemin St
       | Jacques.
       | 
       | I note this trail passes through St Jean Pied de Port, and thus
       | could be used as a natural connector to walk across France and
       | Spain.
        
         | sakopov wrote:
         | I walked from St Jean Pied de Port, France to Finisterre, Spain
         | twice. It was a great experience and highly recommended.
        
           | kiko123 wrote:
           | Me too! Had a little less time than I'd have liked, so I
           | started in Burgos instead of St Jean Pied de Port.
           | Nonetheless, it was an amazing experience. Finisterre might
           | have been one of the prettiest places I've ever been to.
        
         | justinator wrote:
         | It's very... civilized. I was riding my bike on part of it
         | without knowing I was. It's not what I would call a backpacking
         | experience to compare with the AT, CDT, etc. I'm sure this
         | isn't either, as there's no real wilderness in France, but it
         | sure is more appealing to me than El Camino.
        
           | masklinn wrote:
           | Yeah the Ways of Saint James is a pilgrimage route (or a
           | catchment thereof until you reach the Camino frances), so
           | it's supposed to be accessible to most everyone, and would
           | have way stations all along as pilgrims of the early middle
           | ages could hardly be assumed to carry months worth of
           | necessities.
        
         | oh_sigh wrote:
         | Not really an alternate. I did the Camino de Santiago from
         | vezelay and it was along roadways for the most part. Some
         | beautiful, out of the way roadways, but still roadways. This
         | trail network seems much more in the wilderness, considering
         | they recommend bivouacing along it.
        
         | roelschroeven wrote:
         | For those who don't know, the Chemin Saint Jacques (or Camino
         | de Santiago, or Way of Saint James) is a pilgrimage route (or
         | rather a network of pilgrimage routes) which goes all the way
         | to Santiago de Compostela in northwestern Spain. Spanish
         | "Santiago" = French "Saint Jacques" = English "Saint James the
         | Great".
        
           | ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote:
           | To add to that cultural tidbit, in France the pilgrimage is
           | most commonly known as Saint Jacques de Compostelle or
           | chemins de Compostelle.
        
           | throw0101c wrote:
           | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camino_de_Santiago
           | 
           | Two popular starting routes are the towns of Irun for _Camino
           | del Norte_ and St. Jean Pied du Port for _Camino Frances_ ,
           | which the Hexatrek pass by.
           | 
           | * https://caminoways.com/camino-del-norte
           | 
           | * https://caminoways.com/camino-frances
           | 
           | If anyone is curious, there are vloggers on YouTube
           | documenting their travels for these.
        
             | thuridas wrote:
             | The good part of this path is the logistics. A lot of
             | people travel though it so there are a lot of cheap lodges,
             | good signaling and places to buy food or have a meal
        
       | generationP wrote:
       | The pictures are beautiful, but what about the logistics?
       | Ideally, day stages with lodging and/or public transport at the
       | ends, such as German trails often have. Wild camping is not
       | allowed in France, so a mere gpx trail through the middle of
       | nowhere isn't that useful all by itself.
        
         | mytailorisrich wrote:
         | > _Wild camping is not allowed in France_
         | 
         | Maybe they drastically increased monitoring but my memories of
         | my teenage years are that you could do whatever you wanted, and
         | that was in relatively urbanised areas... so wild camping in
         | the middle of nowhere? No-one will even know.
        
           | kzrdude wrote:
           | That's great but we can predict that more attention, more
           | foot traffic and more people will bring the need for more
           | rules around this.
        
         | orwin wrote:
         | Bivouac is allowed. So as long as you don't make fire and are
         | up and packed before 9, you're good.
        
           | boudin wrote:
           | There's an article about it on the website:
           | https://en.hexatrek.com/hiking-trail/bivouac-rules-in-france
        
             | qbasic_forever wrote:
             | Wow even the rules for bivouac seem bizarre and arbitrary.
             | Only one night in the same place allowed... what if you set
             | out to climb some peaks in the Alps and need to wait a few
             | days for the right weather window, do you have to move your
             | tent every day (and tear it down after sunrise)? Very odd
             | and arbitrary. It almost seems like it would incentivize
             | dangerous fast and loose/sloppy outdoor behavior.
             | 
             | For comparison in the US dispersed camping usually just has
             | very general rules like can't stay in an area more than
             | 30-60 days, have to leave no trace, respect fire bans, and
             | deal with other local restrictions like on hunting,
             | foraging, fire wood collecting, etc.
        
               | wongarsu wrote:
               | France has about four times the population density of the
               | US, so it's somewhat easier to step on each other's toes.
               | The idea behind the rules is simple: pick a spot where
               | you don't bother anyone (including protected wildlife)
               | and set up a tarp, not a camp. The latter is somewhat
               | indirectly enforced by forcing you to move
        
               | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
               | > For comparison in the US dispersed camping
               | 
               | Good luck with dispersed camping in the US east of the
               | Mississippi (or for that matter, in Texas). It is totally
               | reliant on federal public land, which essentially exists
               | only in the western states. Out east [0], or in Texas,
               | you will find yourself in a situation much more similar
               | to the one in France (or England, or Germany, or ...)
               | 
               | [0] and effectively, the east/west boundary is not even
               | the Mississippi, but something like the 101st meridian.
               | Dispersed camping in eastern Kansas is next-to-
               | impossible.
        
               | nanidin wrote:
               | Mark Twain National Forest is in Missouri and allows
               | dispersed camping.
        
               | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
               | I tried not to say "impossible". Yes, there are some
               | small bits of national forest in the east (I've stayed in
               | some recently in VA, for example), but they tend to be
               | small and very much the exception.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | >It is totally reliant on federal public land, which
               | essentially exists only in the western states.
               | 
               | You do have federal and state lands in the eastern US
               | but, of course, nothing like the vast tracts out west. In
               | any case, with the notable exception of the Appalachian
               | Trail, there are fewer options for long-distance
               | backpacking in the east though there are some hut systems
               | and, subject to various rules, you can find places to
               | camp in national forests in particular.
        
               | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
               | State land regulations tend to differ from the federal
               | ones. They even vary forest-to-forest. I know that some
               | state forests in PA allow dispersed camping, some do not.
               | Makes it all very confusing.
        
               | jeffrallen wrote:
               | And in Texas don't be surprised to be woken up looking at
               | the muzzle of the rifle of whoever decided they own that
               | patch.
        
               | dugmartin wrote:
               | Directly east of the Mississippi is the Shawnee National
               | Forest in Southern Illinois
               | (https://www.fs.usda.gov/shawnee) with 289,000 acres with
               | both primitive (free but 14 days max per camp spot) and
               | dispersed camping allowed.
               | 
               | I grew up in the area and camped many times with friends
               | in high school and college by just walking a few miles
               | down a trail and then moving off the trail a bit. I
               | _believe_ back then the primitive camping limit was 90
               | days per spot. The Rainbow People used to push that to
               | the max when they moved through the area.
               | 
               | I live in New England now and other than some remote
               | state parks here in Massachusetts there isn't any
               | primitive camping so you are right about far east of the
               | Mississippi.
        
               | qbasic_forever wrote:
               | I'm in the PNW and national forests with dispersed
               | camping are everywhere. It's glorious, I can drop
               | everything and disappear into the woods and mountains at
               | any moment.
        
           | a3_nm wrote:
           | This is not really correct -- it is not true, for example, in
           | many of the national parks in which people typically hike.
        
           | nonethewiser wrote:
           | For others who didn't know bivouac is camping without any
           | sort of tent or shelter. In terms of doing a long hike this
           | seems completely unrealistic because you can't rule out bad
           | weather.
        
             | Lio wrote:
             | This might sound like a daft question but is a bivi bag
             | allowed?
             | 
             | If (as the name would imply) it is then it's not so bad.
             | 
             | Lots of long distance cyclists use this approach in areas
             | where camping is not strictly allowed.
             | 
             | Personally I prefer a lightweight tent but hve thought
             | about getting a supplementary bivibag for stealth.
             | 
             | Either way this route looks magic.
             | 
             | EDIT: having read the page on the site "bivouacking" looks
             | pretty permissive. Since all the pictures show small tents
             | that all looks vey sensible and better that we have in
             | England and Wales (Scotland is very permissive too).
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | Luc wrote:
             | > For others who didn't know bivouac is camping without any
             | sort of tent or shelter.
             | 
             | Well that's not correct as far as the subject of the
             | article goes. In France at least the term also covers
             | camping in an light tent.
        
               | nonethewiser wrote:
               | Thanks for clarifying, that is not what the definitions I
               | found via Google said
        
               | kergonath wrote:
               | I can confirm that Google is wrong in this case. Sleeping
               | outside without a tent is generally referred to as
               | "dormir a la belle etoile", but it is not necessarily
               | implied in "bivouac".
               | 
               | From my experience (which varies, the rules are local and
               | not nation-wide laws) the difference is whether you can
               | stand in your tent or not. I have seen whether you can
               | carry your tent with your backpack used as a criterion as
               | well.
        
             | justinator wrote:
             | If it rains, I think there's 0 chance that anyone would
             | blink if you put up a tarp for additional shelter.
             | 
             | You're also more likely than not a stone's throw from a
             | cheap municipal campsite that at least has a restaurant
             | attached to it with a Michelin Star. This is France, after
             | all!
        
               | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
               | There are only 632 Michelin starred restaurants in
               | France, and it is only the 6th most-dense country for
               | such establishments. So no, probably not a stones throw
               | away. Still, probably a great boulangerie to make up for
               | it.
               | 
               | Apparently, Japan is where you want to be if you want to
               | have the lowest average distance to a Michelin restaurant
               | [0]
               | 
               | [0] https://www.chefspencil.com/density-of-michelin-
               | starred-rest...
        
               | justeleblanc wrote:
               | There's nothing that makes a joke funnier than someone
               | who explains why that joke is statistically unsound.
        
               | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
               | At your service, with delight!
        
             | yodsanklai wrote:
             | No, you can use a tent, as long as you don't stay more than
             | one night.
        
         | silverfrost wrote:
         | In my experience the French are very tolerant provided you are
         | not making a nuisance of yourself.
        
         | justinator wrote:
         | Not allowed, but certainly tolerated. I camped in many an apple
         | tree nursery for months in France, with only a few drunken
         | teens joining me. The gypsy camps were also very accommodating.
         | You could find safe enough places in the middle of Paris to set
         | up a tent.
        
         | kergonath wrote:
         | > Wild camping is not allowed in France
         | 
         | That is not true. It is disallowed in some cases (though these
         | cases involve things like close to listed buildings, which can
         | be quite difficult to know without some research). The country
         | is also covered with camping sites, and refuges in the
         | mountains.
        
         | kzrdude wrote:
         | There's an app for this trail with more information. But I
         | would have expected some info about lodging on the site, just
         | to set expectations, do people walk with tents, or doable
         | without?
        
           | benguillet wrote:
           | I did a part of it last year. You need to walk with your
           | tent, you won't reach a lodging site every night. I think the
           | longest stretch without civilization (no village/town to buy
           | food etc) is 5 days. So you also need to manage. your food
           | and water supply.
           | 
           | The app is very helpful for that as it gives you water, food
           | and lodging information on the trail related to your current
           | position (so for instance you can see that in 10km there is a
           | river/water fountain/grocery store etc.)
        
       | bvanderveen wrote:
       | Good luck finishing that on a tourist visa! Plus, camping is
       | prohibited in France, so you'll need to walk to a town to crash
       | every night. Huh!
        
         | benguillet wrote:
         | That's not true. You can bivouac (== 1 night stay) anywhere in
         | France where it's not explicitly forbidden (e.g
         | cities/towns/national parks etc). I did a small part of it last
         | year and slept in a tent 5 out 6 nights.
        
         | RandallBrown wrote:
         | It'd be about 20 miles per day if you're just on a normal visit
         | with no visa at all. Nothing too out of the ordinary for people
         | who do this kind of long distance backpacking.
         | 
         | Camping appears to be allowed along most of it according to the
         | website.
        
         | holoduke wrote:
         | If there is one country with many campings its france. You find
         | them even in the smallest villages. Wild camping is not really
         | necessary. Camping muncipals are very cheap.
        
         | jmnicolas wrote:
         | If you're doing low profile onenighters there's about zero
         | chance to be bothered about it. Source : I did it a long time
         | ago, I crossed France with my backpack from east to west then
         | went in England.
         | 
         | Only once a woman asked me what I was doing in her field, I
         | asked politely if I could stay the night, she said one night is
         | OK and that was it. The only reason I had this encounter is
         | because I was so tired that I didn't bother to look for a
         | hidden place. I just built my tent in the middle of her flat
         | field.
        
           | robopsychology wrote:
           | If people are considering doing this either camp after sunset
           | and be gone before sunrise or knock on the farmhouse and ask
           | if you can camp in the corner of a field in their land. 99%
           | of people will say yes and appreciate you asking (you might
           | get some free food out of it too!), and the 1% who do care
           | will be pissed if they find you which you want to avoid
           | anyway.
        
       | uptime wrote:
       | The language choices for the newsletter display as 'French' or
       | 'Francais'. Touche, nice touch!
        
       | carabiner wrote:
       | This trail only opened last year, and was inspired by the US
       | Pacific Crest Trail. The creator (from Chamonix) quit his tech
       | job and journeyed from South America to Canada, and while on the
       | PCT wondered why doesn't France have its own grand mountain
       | trail? So he and a few others planned this route, crowdfunded an
       | app to consolidate its info (campsites, water sources) and came
       | up with this.
       | https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/Mag/Nature/New-3-000...
        
         | justeleblanc wrote:
         | Nice story. But all the guy did is take parts of 47 trails that
         | have been around for decades and put them in a single map. The
         | trail didn't "open last year". The website did, maybe.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | ilikehurdles wrote:
           | Yep I've done a good chunk of Stage 2 it seems, because much
           | of it is part of the Tour du Mont Blanc. I can't rave enough
           | about the experience, though. It's a beautiful trek well
           | worth doing. Especially that segment.
        
         | namdnay wrote:
         | The GR didn't open last year... they've been around longer than
         | the author :)
        
       | Waterluvian wrote:
       | Pommes and oranges and I don't mean it competitively, but the
       | Trans Canada Trail system being 24,000km vs France's 3,000km
       | really puts into perspective for me just how much space we have
       | here.
       | 
       | Europe always feels really small when examining any single
       | country. I still feel surprised by the idea that you can drive
       | across many of these countries in less than a day.
        
         | goplayoutside wrote:
         | Unfortunately, the TCT still involves thousands of miles of
         | roadwalking.
        
         | maxlamb wrote:
         | The 3000km is just one path to cross France. France's GR trail
         | system total 60,000km:
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GR_footpath
        
           | Waterluvian wrote:
           | WOW!
           | 
           | What a great system.
        
         | dudul wrote:
         | You probably see more interesting and diverse landscapes in
         | 3000 km of France vs 24000 km of Canada.
        
         | holoduke wrote:
         | But france is extremely diverse in nature relative to its size.
         | This trail goes through wet lowlands to coasty areas, through
         | ancient vulcanic areas. High mountains, dry grounds etc. You
         | have travel a hell lot further in most other places.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | Mordisquitos wrote:
       | The _hexa_ prefix at first made me think that the trail went
       | around the entirety of mainland France, commonly known as _l
       | 'Hexagone_ [0]. However, from what I see, it "only" goes along 3
       | of the 6 sides [1] (not that it makes it any less impressive!).
       | 
       | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L'Hexagone
       | 
       | [1] https://en.hexatrek.com/hiking-trail/hexatrek/the-great-
       | fren...
        
         | Someone wrote:
         | I never understood that expression. When I look at a the
         | outline of France, I see a pentagon, with the Pyrenees and the
         | Cote d'Azur forming a single side.
         | 
         | Yes, that's a side made up of a mountain range and a coast, but
         | to my eye, it fits way better than the hexagon of
         | https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexagone_(France). You can fix
         | that around about any somewhat country whose outline isn't very
         | elongated such as Germany, Iceland or Poland.
         | 
         | And I'm not the only one.
         | https://archive.wikiwix.com/cache/index2.php?url=https%3A%2F...
         | argues a square or a pentagon are better fits for regular
         | polygons. I would mare the pentagon slightly irregular to get
         | an even better fit.
        
           | blahedo wrote:
           | If you directly connect Biarritz to Monaco you do get a
           | pentagon and a reasonably good fit to the actual border; but
           | the angle between the border and the coast at Perpignan is so
           | tight (well under 90deg at higher zoom levels but close to a
           | right angle even at a glance) that it feels like it ought to
           | be a point of the surrounding polygon. (Treating the Pyrenees
           | as a separate "side" from the Med coast also means that each
           | side is either land or sea, not both.)
        
         | richk449 wrote:
         | > not that it makes it any less impressive!
         | 
         | Covering three sides is exactly the same amount of impressive
         | as covering six sides?
         | 
         | I can imagine the impressiveness isn't linear with sides, so it
         | doesn't have to half as impressive, but I would expect some
         | dependence.
         | 
         | Maybe it saturates? So covering three sides is peak
         | impressiveness, and any more sides has no effect?
         | 
         | Although your language leaves open the possibility that
         | covering three sides is more impressive than covering six
         | sides. Not sure why that would be, but maybe three sides is the
         | optimum?
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | Impression is about depth, not length.
        
           | messe wrote:
           | Your joke went on too long. If you'd just said "Well, I'd
           | call that about half as impressive." and left it at that, I
           | doubt you'd be getting downvoted to hell.
        
         | bbx wrote:
         | In this case, "hexa" (meaning "6") is the number of stages of
         | this trail. A bit arbitrary though but I guess it hints at the
         | fact that it's a French trail, France being referred to as
         | "l'Hexagone" like you said, even when talking about only part
         | of it.
        
       | ulnarkressty wrote:
       | For hiking trails all over Europe see
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_long-distance_paths
        
       | tmilard wrote:
       | Did the Corsica GR 20 from my first vacation out of family.
       | Magical souvenir.
        
         | throwaway85858 wrote:
         | The GR20 is epic, walking along ridgelines between crazy
         | weather systems, thunder and high winds on one side, humid
         | tropical updrafts on the other, followed by wild boar
         | saucisson, a hunk of bread and corsican beer at the refuge.
        
       | transitivebs wrote:
       | Approx how long would it take to do the full thru hike for a
       | group of intermediate hikers?
        
       | jmnicolas wrote:
       | If the 3000 kilometers are a bit short you can always continue on
       | the Via Del Norte in Spain to go to Santiago de Compostela.
       | 
       | Brush up on your dog whispering skills as they're quite a
       | nuisance here (it makes my hikes less enjoyable, I always try to
       | avoid villages and farms).
        
       | momirlan wrote:
       | enticing ! for lovers of country trails, also check the Via
       | Transilvanica in Romania: https://www.timeout.com/news/romanias-
       | epic-new-transylvanian...
        
       | tisa28101993 wrote:
       | 66487516
        
       | balaji1 wrote:
       | The Tour de France of hiking
        
       | seeken wrote:
       | For the times/durations- what does 15 a 30 J mean? 15 days - 30
       | days?
        
         | jkepler wrote:
         | "J" = jour
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | ohgodplsno wrote:
         | yep, 15 to 30 days
        
       | kaymanb wrote:
       | Very cool! Reminds me of the Trans European Alpine Route (TEAR)
       | someone put together a few years ago.
       | 
       | https://www.mountainsandme.ca/tear-overview
        
       | Doctor_Fegg wrote:
       | > 47 Great Hiking GR(r) trails have been brought together in a
       | single path to create this thru hike.
       | 
       | Fun fact: the GR trails, and hence this through route, aren't
       | allowed to be mapped in OpenStreetMap.
       | 
       | The federation that administers them, the FFRP, claims copyright
       | in them as a creative work. French law agrees.
       | 
       | You can see the little red and white trailblazing marks on trees,
       | but you can't record that information and put it into OSM. If you
       | want a map, you need an FFRP-licensed product.
       | 
       | https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/France/Itineraires_pedes...
        
         | politelemon wrote:
         | That's not fun at all, I'd never have imagined such a level of
         | selfishness!
         | 
         | What would happen if a well meaning editor added those trails
         | though, is there automated removal or would OSM get in trouble?
        
           | subpixel wrote:
           | What's not fun at all is when every pretty place is a GPS
           | coordinate and then swarmed by people who only want to take a
           | picture of themselves and have little regard for nature.
           | 
           | It's very common near where I live for the agencies who
           | manage trails and other unique spots to opt-out of GPS-
           | enabled maps (like Avenza) and to actively monitor social
           | media to ask that people refrain from naming 'photo opp'
           | locations.
        
             | louison11 wrote:
             | I think the answer is more education, rather than "let's
             | keep the best spots secret." So many of our current
             | societal problems stem from people's disconnection from
             | nature. I don't think a world where more people spend time
             | in it is a bad thing. Apps and signs on the trail could
             | remind people to leave no trace, be quiet and mindful.
        
               | jfengel wrote:
               | Can we try just putting those signs out in the rest of
               | the world, too?
        
             | subroutine wrote:
             | Why have the trails at all then? This sounds like some
             | gatekeeping bullshit, where you think people who take a few
             | pix along the trail are not enjoying nature correctly. They
             | don't "respect nature".
        
               | strken wrote:
               | The gatekeeping happens because less experienced people
               | who drive to a spot are more likely to leave used toilet
               | paper and discarded snack wrappers everywhere, not
               | because they're "not enjoying nature properly".
        
           | lisp-pornstar wrote:
           | That's not selfish, GRs are sometimes crossing natural park
           | in which nature and wilderness related laws are enforced,
           | there are people that can sue you if you smoke a
           | cigarette/walk in certain areas/throw some trash at the
           | ground/camp in les calanques de marseille for example (the
           | south of france is highly inflammable during summer). In
           | order to maintain the local biodiversity, keep a minor impact
           | of the local wilderness of these places (endangered species
           | often), some money has to be raised, experts have to be paid
           | to help decisions (should a trail be modified for X reasons
           | related to what I said supra, should some trees be cut down
           | for security reasons, should some security lanes be created
           | to prevent fires etc...), which then requires the
           | intervention of professionals to apply these decisions. You
           | also have to pay "rangers" sometimes (I don't know of many
           | parks of france, i'm mainly talking about calanques and
           | cevennes).
           | 
           | When I go climbing I have to buy a local guide documenting
           | all the historical climbing spots; the persons that sells the
           | guide are the one that equipped and maintened these
           | historical routes : is it selfishness ?
        
             | dantheman wrote:
             | Just charge admission/sell a permit
        
               | lisp-pornstar wrote:
               | I don't find a good solution to have to pay a license to
               | have the right walk the path I walk everyday to go from A
               | to B, that my grandparents walked (just as their own
               | grandparents did etc...), a path that has been traced by
               | the sole circulation of humans in a forest, that local
               | people "created" and that is now part of a GR. Maybe
               | that's only a psychological effect in my person, because
               | something in me is okay with the fact of paying a global
               | tax that would fund every activity related to the
               | maintenance of the trails and the protection of
               | wilderness.
        
               | lisp-pornstar wrote:
               | How ?
        
               | jpollock wrote:
               | The same way you force them to buy a map.
               | 
               | Unless "I have to buy" is a mistranslation.
        
               | lisp-pornstar wrote:
               | You don't have to buy a map, paths begins usually in
               | villages or lead to them. Usually when I walk in an
               | unknown place I can find some of the red signs that
               | indicates a GR, sometimes with distances and names of
               | places they lead to. I hiked a lot without a map, never
               | struggled to find a GR, local people usually know about
               | them very well.
        
           | namdnay wrote:
           | I wouldn't say selfish, just stuck in the past. The money
           | they collect from selling official guidebooks pays for the
           | maintenance of the trails
        
             | cma wrote:
             | Seems absurd until you look at how America is handling it:
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33835815
        
             | swalling wrote:
             | France specifically seems to have a bizarre tolerance for
             | "pay to play" culture and limited access in outdoor
             | recreation. Countries all around them have shown how strong
             | freedom to roam laws
             | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam) can work.
             | Those just don't exist in France. Even in the US, trails
             | are largely maintained by volunteers, non-profits, and
             | federal institutions.
        
               | idoubtit wrote:
               | > France specifically seems to have a bizarre tolerance
               | for "pay to play" culture and limited access in outdoor
               | recreation. Countries all around them have shown how
               | strong freedom to roam laws
               | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam) can work.
               | 
               | Source? Because that Wikipedia page does not state that:
               | no word about France, Italy and Spain, and just a little
               | "freedom to roam" in UK and Germany.
               | 
               | In France, you can enter any open landscape and bivouac
               | there, unless the owner directly states you cannot. The
               | law also forbids to build anything too near to the sea,
               | breaking access to the coast. Private beaches are
               | forbidden. Isn't that more than in most neighbouring
               | countries?
               | 
               | > Even in the US, our trails are largely maintained by
               | volunteers, non-profits, and federal institutions.
               | 
               | It's the same in France: mostly unpaid helpers from
               | associations and paid workers from municipalities.
        
             | lisp-pornstar wrote:
             | How is this "stuck in the past" ? Is the future about
             | building some gates and selling some pass ?
             | 
             | You can totally find the GR and walk through it without a
             | map.
        
         | DrJokepu wrote:
         | That's so weird, I wonder how that works. If I'm the first to
         | make a map or a street or any geographic object in France, it
         | can't be featured on any other map, unless so license it?
        
           | black_puppydog wrote:
           | The gr are pretty well maintained and that takes energy. So
           | the analogy is lacking a bit here, even though I think that
           | this seems somewhat backward and there should be a better
           | solution.
        
         | Someone wrote:
         | I would guess OpenStreetMap could record the location of each
         | marker without linking them in trails or using the official
         | logo of the markers ("one of our contributors saw a marker
         | labeled '13' here" should be public info, shouldn't it?), but
         | even if that's the case, I can see they don't have the
         | resources to go and try that in court.
        
         | PostOnce wrote:
         | Surely the existence of a trail is a fact, and can therefore be
         | mapped, because facts are not copyrightable in most countries?
         | 
         | It's also apparently illegal to insult the President in France,
         | but why would anyone outside of France care?
        
         | ada1981 wrote:
         | I did the GR20 last year and they were all in AllTrails.
        
         | maelito wrote:
         | > Fun fact: the GR trails, and hence this through route, aren't
         | allowed to be mapped in OpenStreetMap.
         | 
         | This is misleading : the GR trails as a whole, named... but I
         | believe all the trails are mapped, they just aren't named or
         | continuous.
         | 
         | See this one for instance :
         | https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/323697041#map=16/48.3484/-...
         | 
         | In the mountains, it can be a problem, more than on the coast.
        
         | louison11 wrote:
         | Surely the coordinates still get leaked through 3rd party apps
         | like Strava, then become visible on the Strava Heatmap. Quite
         | ridiculous they'd try to keep the information private in this
         | day and age.
        
       | fancymcpoopoo wrote:
       | love this! i'm wealthy and not creative or chartiable so i just
       | walk to feel good. /s
        
         | 867-5309 wrote:
         | was thinking the same - can't do this with a job, spouse,
         | children or pets. who the flip has 3 to 5 months to spare?
         | 
         | if you're lucky enough to live to retirement age I can't see
         | long distance walking and camping being much fun with 70-year-
         | old bones (and bladder)
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-04-01 23:00 UTC)