[HN Gopher] GM plans to phase out Apple CarPlay in EVs, with Goo...
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GM plans to phase out Apple CarPlay in EVs, with Google's help
Author : MBCook
Score : 125 points
Date : 2023-03-31 15:57 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (finance.yahoo.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (finance.yahoo.com)
| midnitewarrior wrote:
| This sounds like GM is committing brand suicide by actively
| making itself unappealing to Gen Z.
|
| https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/01/06/gen-z-survey-says...
|
| I love Android, but I also know how to read.
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| "We do believe there are subscription revenue opportunities for
| us," Kummer said. GM Chief Executive Mary Barra is aiming for
| $20 billion to $25 billion in annual revenue from subscriptions
| by 2030."
| rblatz wrote:
| Ah yes pissing off your customers because you think they'll
| not just accept a worse experience, they'll actually pay more
| for it. It's a bold strategy.
| mint2 wrote:
| GM is chasing the United airlines and Ryan air business
| model.
|
| United expects customers to be grateful if they get
| involuntarily rescheduled to arrive a day and a half after
| the original arrival time, with not so much as a free snack
| ticket to compensate e even when the flight delay is of
| their causing, not weather, that made the original
| connection impossible.
| MBCook wrote:
| Well CarPlay (and Android Auto) do cut off revenue.
|
| I'll never buy the satellite radio plan for my car to
| stream music. Why would I? My phone already provides a
| cell connection.
|
| I'll never buy the car cell plan to stream Spotify. Why
| would I? My phone does that already.
|
| I never bought the $200+ per year map updates for my last
| car. Why would I? I had Apple Maps on CarPlay and it
| updates for free.
|
| In many ways this seems like trying to go back to 2006
| when cars had some subscription stuff (maps, satellite
| radio) but consumers had no other choice besides going
| without.
|
| Today we have another choice. Use our cell phones. And
| they're often superior experiences.
|
| This will be reversed after much shareholder pain.
| alistairSH wrote:
| _Well CarPlay (and Android Auto) do cut off revenue._
|
| Sure, but that revenue stream only exists in a situation
| where the auto manufacturer has monopoly power (over that
| particular service).
|
| Prior to cell phones, they had that power over navigation
| and could charge a fee for updated maps (annually via DVD
| initially).
|
| Attempting to subvert the market and create a monopoly
| here is anti-consumer, anti-competitive, and very likely
| a short-sighted decision that GM will regret in 5 years.
| MBCook wrote:
| I agree completely. They're obviously desperate if
| they're trying to turn the clock back 15 years.
| lesuorac wrote:
| I think you're going after United the wrong way.
|
| It'd be like if United split Economy into say Basic
| Economy and Economy with the difference being Basic
| Economy doesn't let you pick a seat. And then in Economy,
| they charged to pick anything but a middle seat.
| stathibus wrote:
| When was the last time GM was seen as a good car company?
| polski-g wrote:
| I have been contacting federal and state legislators to get
| this practice banned. I urge others to do the same.
| sbahr001 wrote:
| LMAO!!!
| DeRock wrote:
| It's not just Gen Z, 79% of all US car buyers would only buy a
| car with CarPlay: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/22/apple-
| carplay-could-be-a-tro...
|
| GM will absolutely lose this battle. Idiotic move.
| mikestew wrote:
| _GM will absolutely lose this battle._
|
| They will, but not by standing firm. No, first will come the
| backlash, then GM will "listen to its customers" and
| backtrack on this.
|
| The problem is, I've already as of this morning stopped
| listening to GM. I sent the link to my wife, and now we're
| planning which Hyundai/Kia dealer to go to first to look at
| Ioniq 5s and $(whatever the equivalent Kia is called). Doug
| in Edmonds says he has 65 of the l'il buggers. We might just
| drive one home this weekend, at which point GM has not only
| lost a sale but further convinced me to stay away from GM.
|
| Did I mention that my father worked for GM all his career,
| and already pre-ordered an EV Blazer, which we said we'd take
| if he didn't want it at delivery? Yeah, I need to send Dad
| quick email about that...
| hexane360 wrote:
| Make sure you get a Hyundai/Kia with an immobilizer...
| vel0city wrote:
| All Hyundai/Kia EVs are push to start.
| Baeocystin wrote:
| As someone who is quite concerned that I'm going to have to
| sell my Kia because insurance companies are refusing to
| cover them because they're so easy to steal, just... be
| careful which model you pick.
| mikestew wrote:
| I think I'll pick a 2023 that doesn't have that problem,
| starting with the fact that it doesn't have an ignition
| key. :-) But thanks for the heads-up.
| vel0city wrote:
| Its only really the models and years where they didn't
| have immobilizers. He's looking at an EV, it doesn't even
| have a cut key for starting the car.
| Baeocystin wrote:
| A good point. Also worth mentioned that Kias are
| (apparently) easy to break in to. Twice over the past
| year my neighborhood has had a group come around and
| jimmy just the Kias in the neighborhood to steal stuff
| from inside. I don't live in a high-crime area, either.
| It's real problem.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| One of the reasons I've taken Hyundai/Kia off my list is
| because I don't trust thieves to be aware of which models
| are easy to steal and which aren't. Even if they can't
| steal it, they can still fuck it up by trying.
| p1mrx wrote:
| Product idea for Hyundai/Kia: always-glowing high
| visibility start button
| Reason077 wrote:
| > _"GM will absolutely lose this battle. Idiotic move."_
|
| I dunno. Lack of CarPlay support has not exactly stopped
| people buying Teslas.
|
| On the other hand, Polestar uses Google's Automotive OS for
| it's infotainment system and yet _also_ supports CarPlay. So
| the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| GM is very much not Tesla, though. They don't have Tesla's
| reputation of being tech-forward and somewhat competent in
| software UI/UX, plus I'd argue that the kind of buyers
| who'd consider e.g. a Bolt are those who are looking for
| normal cars that happen to be EVs -- they're the type who'd
| normally be buying something like a Toyota Camry or Honda
| Accord. They want something that's a reliable commuter, not
| a touchscreen gadget on wheels.
| KerrAvon wrote:
| But it actually has. Lack of CarPlay support was a major
| reason I didn't seriously consider a Tesla for my last
| purchase (long before they became electric MAGA hats), and
| I know other people who have the same issue. Are we
| statistically significant? Not enough data. Maybe not. But
| there's definitely some money that Tesla's leaving on the
| table.
|
| Volvo/Polestar has a rather nice, well-integrated
| implementation of CarPlay, in fact. It definitely can be
| done. GM is insane.
| [deleted]
| pedalpete wrote:
| Not having Android Auto or CarPlay is the thing I dislike
| most about Tesla. I doubt they would be more popular if
| they had these features, but I also doubt GM will suddenly
| find they have the software capabilities of Tesla.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| Tesla's infotainment systems are in a whole another
| category from whatever the other manufacturers are
| attempting.
|
| That being said, not supporting CarPlay (and Apple Maps) is
| a big factor of me not buying a Tesla.
| MBCook wrote:
| Tesla had a very strong alternate benefit to offset the
| CarPlay loss.
|
| They were basically the only non-low end electric car. Also
| their infotainment is reportedly pretty good, not the
| quality of most car makers.
|
| GM doesn't have a Tesla quality infotainment system, and
| doesn't have a "we're the only choice" level hook.
|
| It won't work for them. And it may be starting to hurt
| Tesla as they lose their uniqueness selling point.
| mikestew wrote:
| _Lack of CarPlay support has not exactly stopped people
| buying Teslas._
|
| Oh, it absolutely does. I bought TSLA when it was in the
| double digits, and I bought lots of it (and long since sold
| it all). Despite scooping up capital gains with a backhoe,
| my wife and I never considered a Tesla simply because it
| didn't have CarPlay. As it applies to any car maker,
| CarPlay/Android Auto seems like an easy win, and if the
| company can't be bothered, then we'll look elsewhere.
|
| Lack of CarPlay just doesn't stop _everyone_ from buying
| one.
| diebeforei485 wrote:
| Tesla is probably an edge-case. Tesla's navigation has
| excellent support for Superchargers and even pre-
| conditions your battery a few minutes before you arrive
| at the charger for more efficient charging.
|
| There are ways to run CarPlay in the browser, and it
| works fine (plenty of videos about it), but it isn't
| enough of a value-add for people to want it.
| skunkworker wrote:
| I will only rent a car if it has CarPlay. If it doesn't then
| I will rent another vehicle. It's not worth trying to get
| maps/phone setup in a car that I haven't driven and in a
| location that I am unfamiliar with. Where CarPlay allows me
| to use the same UI, apps settings et al that make it
| significantly easier.
| taylodl wrote:
| I'm honestly surprised anybody is still buying GM
| cars/trucks.
|
| If you want a truck, get a Ford. They're hands-down the best
| in class. Or get a Toyota or Honda if you roll that way.
|
| If you want an SUV, well, _everybody_ is making those and GM
| doesn 't have any standout offerings.
|
| If you want a luxury car then there are much better options
| that are not only more luxurious, but more reliable, and
| oftentimes cheaper.
|
| If you want reliable, cheap transportation then you're
| getting a KIA or Hyundai.
|
| No matter how you slice it and dice it, the answer is _never_
| GM. (I 'll concede the Corvette, they're great sports cars,
| but c'mon! Not many people are buying those!)
|
| And now they're nixing CarPlay?
| rdl wrote:
| They are still pretty solid for vehicles like the
| Suburban/Tahoe/Yukon for specific uses (fleets, large
| family, tow vehicles) and the Sierra isn't quite as nice as
| the F-150 but isn't bad.
| ambrice wrote:
| The Bolt is the best EV in its price range (<30K)
| taylodl wrote:
| Completely anecdotal, but I know _far more_ people owning
| the Nissan Leaf, and they 're about as obsessive about
| their Leafs (Leaves?) as Tesla owners.
| sokoloff wrote:
| I have a LEAF and generally very much like it. The
| massive Achilles heel of my car is the 24kWh battery,
| which is slightly annoying about once a month and
| seriously annoying about 4x per year.
|
| Any Bolt is a better car hands-down on battery capacity
| alone.
|
| On the infotainment topic: I have the top-spec LEAF for
| my year and the (upgraded) infotainment unit is hot
| garbage, easily bested by the $175 Android touchscreen I
| put in my wife's car.
| kulahan wrote:
| I'm glad to see that I'm not alone in that being an _absolute
| requirement_ for a car purchase. I guess it 's not surprising
| that GM is making another stupid move though.
| Robotbeat wrote:
| If it's that dominant I wonder if there needs to be some
| anti-trust action done with Apple?
| MBCook wrote:
| On what grounds? Because people like it too much?
|
| Apple isn't forcing anything. They don't have exclusive
| contacts. Almost every car with CarPlay supports Android
| Auto.
|
| Customers are just demanding it.
| calciphus wrote:
| Apple does restrict access to much of their platform for
| only Apple-based access. There's exactly one company
| stopping Google or anyone else from building a compatible
| car system that runs for both Android and ios, and that's
| Apple. The use of private APIs and preventing competitors
| from using them, to secure another market (car
| infotainment systems) certainly should run afoul of
| anticompetitive laws in spirit, even if it doesn't to the
| army of lobbyists and lawyers the most valuable company
| in the world can muster.
|
| By comparison, nothing (not even Google) is stopping
| Apple from producing CarPlay for Android. All the APIs
| are there. They could even distribute it in the Play
| store.
|
| Compare the PhoneLink capabilities between iPhone and
| Android, vs the macOS integration Apple offers iOS.
| MBCook wrote:
| Are you comparing the _car_ infotainment OS with the
| CarPlay _feature_ running on the phone?
|
| I was not talking about the infotainment OS. No one has
| an Apple OS running on a car so I don't know how they
| could dominate the market.
| alistairSH wrote:
| Uh, my Honda's factory radio is literally an Android
| device.
|
| It happily allows CarPlay from my iPhone.
|
| CarPlay is (very roughly) the phone pushing video to the
| car's head unit like it's an external monitor (with a UI
| tailored for the size/location/usage of a typical car
| display).
| sokoloff wrote:
| I have a ~$175 Android head unit that offers CarPlay
| functionality in one of our daily drivers. There's
| nothing stopping car makers or head unit/car infotainment
| systems makers from creating CarPlay compatibility in
| their devices.
| Marsymars wrote:
| > I'm glad to see that I'm not alone in that being an
| absolute requirement for a car purchase.
|
| My issue is that my #1 requirement (no functionality that
| requires a touchscreen to use) basically pre-empts me from
| having any other requirements.
| unethical_ban wrote:
| Mazda may come close. They have the control knob in the
| center.
|
| I agree no touchscreen for AC/volume knob and some other
| things, but zero touchscreen at all (even for radio and
| menu) seems out there. Time to get a 2001 Cherokee.
| Moto7451 wrote:
| Definitely not alone. Some VP doesn't get it and is going
| to find themselves in a new job elsewhere after they figure
| out what they just committed themself to.
|
| I love GM cars once you remove their terrible UI and escape
| to CarPlay/Android Auto. The biggest issue with cars is
| that they rely on a touch screen for controls and the UX is
| awful. I now have an Audi and a Porsche and the MMI suite
| is Android based. This isn't too bad but the services and
| mapping are far behind Apple and Google.
| jandrese wrote:
| This isn't actually a problem because Gen-Z can't afford a GM
| vehicle anyway. The domestic manufacturers have abandoned the
| affordable vehicle segment to all fight over the high margin
| luxury business. Even basic pickup trucks are $60k and rotting
| on dealer lots because the luxury vehicle market just isn't big
| enough for all of the people who want to be there.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I smell 3rd-party business opportunity.
|
| Never mind we can also enable the heated seats for you without
| your having to pay a subscription.
| MBCook wrote:
| They're dropping Android Auto (from your phone) too.
| nashashmi wrote:
| Everyone here is pessimistic about the experience. And they have
| a right to be. Car manufacturers are not good at consumer
| software. They are only good at moving buttons here and there.
| And the innovators behind what the buttons do have always been a
| different company.
|
| But look at the positive end: having a bland one screen for
| interfacing with your phone is ridiculous. And car manufacturers
| want to move those "buttons" around that interface with your
| phone. Like something that integrates with maps. And the podcast
| and radio. And the messaging and calling. Something that can move
| the map display to right above the steering wheel. Something that
| can move the messaging and video to windshield. And something
| that can let me switch sources for podcast and radio.
|
| I don't think they will be able to pull it off. But I do hope
| they try.
| mikestew wrote:
| Pre-orders for the EV Blazer started recently. My retired GM-
| employed father went down to sign up, because if he didn't want
| it come delivery, I said we'd take it. Parents have a new ICE
| Blazer, and it would fit our needs well as an EV. But no CarPlay?
| You can keep your Blazer, Chevy, we're going to go buy a Kia.
| hkatx wrote:
| I have an iphone and appreciate carplay in my car. Tesla doesn't
| support Apple Car play and is fairly popular.
|
| Most buyers wouldn't notice right away at least during the test
| drive and the absence of carplay will be noticed later in their
| ownership experience. By then the loss of payment/friction in
| changing cars will keep them tied to their purchase.
| doctornoble wrote:
| This really seems like the opposite direction auto manufacturers
| should be taking. Lean in hard to a common API design for
| displays and negotiate with Apple/Google on theming (like Apple
| Watch where some companies get custom watch faces), but leave the
| UX to Google/Apple
|
| I was uninterested in CarPlay until my last car had it. Now it's
| a requirement for any car purchase. Similarly I was uninterested
| in wireless CarPlay (how hard is it to connect a Lightning cable)
| until my next car had it. I'd be a little more lenient on no
| wireless, but it is really convenient.
| CharlesW wrote:
| > _This really seems like the opposite direction auto
| manufacturers should be taking._
|
| For sure. GM is operating based on fear here -- just as
| carriers were terrified of being "dumb pipes", vehicle makers
| are terrified of being "dumb boxes". Somehow GM is under the
| delusion that Google is their friend, and that alienating Apple
| users won't impact vehicle buying decisions. GM will learn the
| hard way that both are incorrect.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Maybe we ought to respect user choice more than the greedy
| desires of our hardware vendors. Just a thought?
| calvinmorrison wrote:
| For the love of open standards, just stop!
|
| I love my car, it has a 1 din radio. Many years ago I replaced
| the tape deck with a unit that had a CD player. A few years after
| that, I had a 3.5mm aux jack and even a USB charger for my iPod
| Classic. After that - bluetooth baby. It works like a dream and
| it was like 30 bucks at walmart.
| option wrote:
| not having Apple Carplay is one of the main reasons I plan to
| ditch my Tesla MYP. so, yeah, way to go GM
| dboreham wrote:
| Quite odd that we decide which $80,000 car to buy based on what
| remote display server protocol it supports.
| kstrauser wrote:
| If I had $80,000 to spend on a car, "works with stuff I already
| own and use" would definitely be a litmus test for me.
| alexwasserman wrote:
| If I'm spending <$8,000 (picking $8K as 10% of your initial
| number) on a car I know I'm compromising on everything and
| buying the car for a very specific reason. There's no room for
| negotiation - you take what you get at that price point.
|
| If I'm spending $80,000 on a car it better be perfect in every
| way, and every little bit of it matters because I don't want to
| be disappointed in any part of it. I would hate getting into my
| $80,000 car every day and knowing that I wasn't getting what I
| wanted from it.
| slt2021 wrote:
| People who drop 80k on a car, dont have time nor energy to
| learn and fiddle with new car UI. Once you get used to CarPlay
| you aint coming back, since it is so integrated with the phone
| UX
| eddieroger wrote:
| It's been said elsewhere as well, but if one is willing to
| spend that much on a car, or can at all, they usually want
| exactly what they want beyond just the UI.
| dang wrote:
| Url changed from https://9to5mac.com/2023/03/31/gm-carplay-
| support-ev/, which points to this.
|
| Submitters: " _Please submit the original source. If a post
| reports on something found on another site, submit the latter._ "
| - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| mabbo wrote:
| I used to drive rental cars a lot for work and _loved_ Chevy and
| GM 's integration with Android auto. They just did it really
| well. I'd specifically try to get one of their vehicles because
| of that.
|
| I guess I won't have to look out for them in the future.
| vondur wrote:
| I won't buy a car without CarPlay integration. Very shortsighted
| move from GM here.
| hulitu wrote:
| Android Auto is crap. It only works with some Google allowed
| apps.
| jeffbee wrote:
| They are not allowing Android Auto, either. And I don't see how
| your complaint differentiates Apple from Google. CarPlay also
| only works with specialized and approved apps.
| sigmonsays wrote:
| who really wants google in your car with you tracking every move?
|
| C'mon, this is getting pretty awful
| flyingcircus3 wrote:
| I use a separate mp3 player connected over Bluetooth in the car.
| I still get album art and all necessary controls on the cars
| touchscreen.
|
| I've used maps/navigation with Android Auto, but really, it's the
| audio directions that are the killer app, not a visual map. So I
| usually just set it up on my phone, and not my cars screen.
|
| What else is there to do on a car's touchscreen? Or are we just
| in the novelty phase of this technology? I'll admit it was a
| deciding factor in my latest car purchase. But the novelty has
| worn off, and if it would have been an optional feature with an
| additional cost, I would certainly have buyer's remorse.
| RC_ITR wrote:
| > This change, the report explains, will help GM "capture more
| data on how consumers drive and charge EVs."
|
| Oh cool, a company reducing features so they can collect more
| data on me.
| midnitewarrior wrote:
| Considering how few drivers they will have in their cars, they
| can just capture this data with pen and paper manually.
| rubicon33 wrote:
| Wireless charging and Apple Car Play are two deal breakers for my
| next car. Idiotic move from GM.
| steponlego wrote:
| Who would want Google in their car? This is a privacy nightmare.
| minutillo wrote:
| Also getting rid of Android Auto, according to the original
| source:
|
| _General Motors plans to phase out widely-used Apple CarPlay and
| Android Auto technologies that allow drivers to bypass a vehicle
| 's infotainment systems, shifting instead to built-in
| infotainment systems developed with Google for future electric
| vehicles._
|
| https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gm-plans-phase-apple-carplay-...
| spacedcowboy wrote:
| _shrug_ I guess that narrows the choice of what car to get in
| future. Sayonara GM.
| GenerWork wrote:
| Glad that they're making these announcements ahead of time so I
| know not to consider a GM vehicle.
| Animats wrote:
| Do you have to have a Google account to use the car?
| kotaKat wrote:
| Actually... sorta. The new infotainment system ("Google Built-
| In") basically dictates you have to use it or you don't get to
| use all the features as they were intended.
|
| To get an idea of what to expect, see Volvo's GBI page -
| https://www.volvocars.com/intl/v/connectivity/infotainment-p...
|
| "You can still drive the car and use Google Assistant and
| Google Maps without a Google Account. However, if you're
| offline or signed out, some apps and features may not be
| available. Google Play requires a logged in Google Account
| whereas Google Assistant and Google Maps will not be as
| personalised in the signed-out experience."
| peoplearepeople wrote:
| Are they trying to ruin their sales to rental car companies?
| ScoobleDoodle wrote:
| Wow ditching both Apple CarPlay and Android Auto to target $20
| billion to $25 billion in subscription revenue.
|
| GM showing itself to be actively user hostile with this.
|
| Owners will be paying an extra subscription cost for these apps
| to be in their car which are already on their phone.
|
| Google Maps subscription free in these GM EVs only for the first
| 8 years. Then you pay a subscription with recurring billing.
|
| These vehicles are no longer a consideration with this user
| hostile orientation. I hope this sends GM to bankruptcy round 2
| and deters other car manufacturers from this nonsense.
| bequanna wrote:
| GM's CEO is delusional.
|
| With dealer lots full of new vehicle inventory, she is choosing
| to lay off employees and shut down production instead of make
| reasonable price cuts.
|
| And to double down on that delusion, she said that GM was
| "...poised to capture any upside in the market in 2023."
| dreamcompiler wrote:
| And of course there is zero chance GM's software will be even
| 1/10 as easy to use as Apple's because no car manufacturer
| (except maybe Tesla) understands UI software or even
| acknowledges that it's important.
|
| I already pay "subscriptions" for my car in the form of loan
| payments, insurance, and maintenance. I'm damn well not going
| to pay Mary Barra a monthly fee to use her crappy music service
| or enable my seat heaters to work.
| esskay wrote:
| GM are seriously deluded if they think they can get anywhere
| near those figures. We all know how crappy their software will
| be, and why on earth would they think anyone will be stupid
| enough to pay a subscription for it when its free on every
| other car.
| gumby wrote:
| No problem, I don't need a GM car either.
| plagiarist wrote:
| I don't want my car to team up with anyone, please. I don't want
| an already-outdated LCD screen and proprietary operating system
| in there becoming obsolete even faster than the battery wears
| out. I wish there were better options for that.
| yalogin wrote:
| Isn't that the point of CarPlay and android auto? You don't
| have to rely on auto manufacturers to design the UI/UX for that
| screen and don't depend on the their OTA updates either.
| esskay wrote:
| Correct, guessing OP's never used it.
|
| A good example: In 2015 I bought a tiny little Toyota Aygo
| (UK). It came with "Mirrorlink", it was the first car I'd
| ever owned that had a fancy touch screen, and it was
| advertised as working with iPhone's.
|
| Now bearing in mind this was a brand new model, you can
| imagine how pissed off I was when I got the car, tried my
| phone and it didn't work, only to be told it only works with
| the iPhone 4 - we were on the 6S at that point.
|
| To this day there has never been a software update. They
| continued selling that model with the misleading claims for
| about 4 years, eventually releasing a new model with carplay
| support. If I want carplay support added to mine, it needs
| the newer head unit which is around PS900.
|
| Car manufacturers are assholes. I dont want them having
| anything to do with the software, just make it work with
| carplay and android auto and then dont touch it, let the
| people that actually maintain their software on your phone
| deal with it all.
| UberFly wrote:
| I agree. I wish there were bare-bare-bones options with a radio
| and ac/heat. I will use my phone otherwise.
| soylentcola wrote:
| That's hot it is with my Fit. No touch screens or syncing
| with apps or any of that. I stick my phone in the holder,
| plug in power if I'll be driving for a while, and switch the
| stereo to aux/bluetooth.
|
| I've had rentals with Carplay/Android Auto and they're kinda
| neat when they aren't a pain in the ass to set up (probably
| due to the cheap head units' software). But I already see nav
| and hear directions/music/podcasts/calls through the car's
| stereo.
|
| I thought about upgrading the head unit from stock, but then
| I realized I was looking at a few hundred bucks at least. I
| don't spend enough time in my car to need a slightly bigger
| screen when I already have one right in front of me, sitting
| in its mount.
|
| Not as if I'd rip the thing out if I got a car with
| Carplay/AA built=in. I just don't see it as a huge selling
| point.
| Arrath wrote:
| Give me an Aux jack or give me dea-
|
| Well, shit.
|
| Fine, give me bluetooth or give me death!
| semi-extrinsic wrote:
| Actually, just the aux jack is perfectly fine.
|
| I have a car with just aux, and I bought a $37 aux to
| bluetooth adapter [1] that works perfectly. It is a small
| puck shaped thing you can attach on the dash, with physical
| buttons for play/pause/prev/next, a good-enough microphone
| and you can answer/end calls with the play button.
|
| If they release Bluetooth 6.0 or whatever with cool new
| features, then in a couple of years when I've bought a
| phone that supports this, I can just buy a new Bluetooth
| adapter.
|
| [1] https://www.ebay.com/itm/185493363534?hash=item2b30441b
| 4e:g:...
| Arrath wrote:
| The only time I've been in a car with aux and without
| bluetooth was when briefly borrowing my mom's car when I
| visited home, so I haven't had a need for a product like
| this.
|
| Good to know they work quite well! Thank you.
| realworldperson wrote:
| [dead]
| yibg wrote:
| Yea agree so much with this. I just want a car with physical
| knobs and buttons bluetooth to connect to my phone's audio.
| Have to buy ~10 year old cars to get this.
| poulsbohemian wrote:
| My Subaru has physical knobs AND the benefits of CarPlay.
| This is not a mutually exclusive issue. And both work great
| together.
| yibg wrote:
| Yea some do have this, just not common anymore. e.g. I
| want a GTI, but I really hate the lack of buttons. Even
| the steering wheel controls aren't physical buttons
| anymore.
| [deleted]
| kennend3 wrote:
| My 2023 Elantra has both google/apple support and physical
| knobs on both the console and steering wheel.
|
| I can do most things without interacting with the touch
| screen at all.
|
| Physical knobs and these systems def. do exist.
| purplecats wrote:
| isnt that basically their point though
| plagiarist wrote:
| It seems like their point is to be able to capture more
| driver data, and get a nice sum from Google for making them
| the default (only?) map software. I would rather not have
| their OS at all.
| arcticbull wrote:
| > I wish there were better options for that.
|
| There is, it's Apple CarPlay and Google Carwhatever. The whole
| point of these are that it basically replaces the entire car
| infotainment setup.
| yalogin wrote:
| Obviously they entered into an exclusive partnership like this
| with Google after a lot of thought. I cannot imagine what google
| gave them for that. The main question for me is, how is it
| benefitting Google? Does GM sell that many cars? Do the users
| data on their drives worth that much to them? Or is it just a
| play to make Apple appear weaker?
| georgelyon wrote:
| Something fitting about this story being reported on yahoo.
| jeffbee wrote:
| I would never buy a car that did not support both Android Auto
| and CarPlay. In fact, that is why I did not buy a Prius.
|
| The software in a Chevy Bolt EV is unbelievably bad, taking
| several second to respond to presses of the power button, which
| means your awful experience starts from the moment you get in the
| car. I suggest that GM mercifully assign each and every member of
| their software division to literally any other non-software role,
| and let someone with good taste take over.
| pmarreck wrote:
| 10 years ago I sold a Chevy Volt and bought a Tesla (I did very
| well that year). The UI was also terrible, then.
|
| I see nothing has changed despite Tesla existing for over 10
| years now.
|
| Even though the Tesla doesn't support CarPlay, it doesn't have
| to, because its native UI is great (and responsive!)
| snozolli wrote:
| Back in 2017, I bought a new stereo for my project car. I made
| sure that it supported Android Open Accessory, so that I'd be
| able to stream high quality audio over USB. By the time I
| installed it, it didn't work. Why? Because Google deprecated AOA
| in Android 8.0, in August 2017. AOA support was removed and USB
| Audio UAC1 & UAC2 were added.
|
| This left existing owners of car stereos produced from 2011 (when
| AOA was introduced with Android 3.1) on.
|
| This also created a problem in that no car stereo manufacturer
| seems to have implemented UAC1 or UAC2 support, likely because it
| treats the stereo as a 'dumb' DAC, so you can't control playback
| using buttons on the stereo.
|
| So, why did they remove AOA? My only guess is that it was done in
| order to push Android Auto. I believe that Google will just screw
| over existing users at the drop of a hat if a brand manager
| decides it might increase some market share metric.
| mastercheif wrote:
| It's possible to do playback controls on UAC 2 devices.
|
| The audio device needs to report a 2nd interface to the host
| for an HID device which can then send forward HID media key
| events like a USB keyboard.
|
| I'd wager this is how AOA v2 handled it as well-I don't see any
| mention of controls in the audio interface docs.
| justapassenger wrote:
| If it's fully integrated android automotive, and it just works,
| for free - that's fine with me, even tho I'm an iPhone user. As
| long as I get my apps - I don't care.
|
| But I'm 100% sure it won't be like that. I'm also 100% sure, the
| reason they plan to do it, is to force people into OnStar
| subscription for data. I'm not paying $35+ per month when I have
| phone in my pocket.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| They are offering 8 years free data.
| justapassenger wrote:
| Source? Article doesn't mention that.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/31/23664814/gm-ev-
| restrict-a... The Verge has the actual document from GM, it
| is the last line.
| Overtonwindow wrote:
| It's a shame there is not one universal automotive entertainment
| standard that can read and interpret from any device following
| that standard.
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| You'd think the EU would force the industry to come up with a
| standard.
| gnicholas wrote:
| I'll remain open minded about this, but it seems unwise to go
| all-in with android and abandon Apple for even the most expensive
| cars. Are people who buy Cadillacs (who probably own iPhones) not
| going to mind not having CarPlay? Or will they buy a BMW or
| Mercedes instead?
|
| When you're dropping $75k on a car, you expect it not to have any
| compromises.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| I think you misunderstood what they are doing. They are
| dropping both Carplay and Android Auto, the Android Equal of
| carplay. Instead they are making the car platform based on
| Google Automotive with the play store so you can install any
| app you want natively.
|
| Their argument is that they want to make the internal software
| as good or better. I'll remain open minded as well..but TBH I
| fully expect almost all car makers to do this. No sane company
| would spend billions making a product and then let some other
| company overlay over it and make all the money.
| intelekshual wrote:
| They're not going all-in with Android or abandoning Apple,
| they're phasing out both CarPlay AND Android Auto in favor of
| something entirely new (that just so happens to be built by
| Google).
| MBCook wrote:
| This is that problem of Google branding.
|
| They're dropping Android Auto, the CarPlay equivalent.
|
| They're switching to Android Auto, the infotainment OS. Or is
| that Android Automotive? Or Android for Autos? Or Android
| Auto(motive?) OS, which is AAOS. Or something based on
| Android Open Source for cars or maybe Android Auto Open
| Source?
|
| Which is not AOSP. Or Android. But kind of is.
|
| I'm not in the Android world but I'm never sure what to call
| the _car_ Android thing as opposed to the _phone_ Android
| thing _for use in cars_.
|
| Using Android Auto with your Android based auto. Sigh.
|
| I give up. I'm going to go watch Apple TV on my Apple TV
| through the Apple made TV app.
| pc86 wrote:
| As other commenters have said, people dismiss $75k+ cars all
| the times for things like "this shade of exterior paint is too
| light/dark" or "I don't like how the shifter feels" or "this
| doesn't have ambient lighting."
|
| In that context "this car won't integrate with your phone so
| you'll need to rely on shoddy BT at best" is a pretty major
| issue.
| juve1996 wrote:
| Not even in that price range.
|
| I wouldn't buy a toyota I wanted simply because it didn't
| have Carplay and their infotainment sucked.
| tristor wrote:
| I would never buy a new vehicle without CarPlay. This is a move
| so stupid, even knowing GM, I'm shocked they would do this.
| Anyone in the US that isn't broke or opposing Apple for
| ideological reasons is all-in on the Apple ecosystem because it's
| the only tech ecosystem that actually works and half-ass respects
| the user.
|
| A recent survey had 87% of people between 14-25 in the US own
| iPhones and nearly 80% of those who made over median income own
| iPhones.
|
| Who does GM think is buying new vehicles when economy car base
| prices are pushing $30k? Someone with a free government Android
| phone is not dropping $30k+ on a new car.
|
| I can't wait to see GM go out of business from this sheer
| stupidity.
| paxys wrote:
| More auto manufacturers are doing this, because they want to push
| monthly subscriptions for connected services. Plugging in your
| phone gets around that and gives you a way better experience.
| nerdjon wrote:
| I really hope this isn't a start of a trend, but I have to wonder
| if the recent CarPlay taking over the entire car thing that Apple
| announced is kinda related?
|
| Every once in a while I end up renting a car that doesn't have
| CarPlay support and it sucks. CarPlay is great and it does what I
| need (music and directions, with the occasional message) while
| also keeping everything in sync with my phone.
| banana_giraffe wrote:
| Related, I suppose, but indirectly. From elsewhere:
|
| > GM said it expects its in-car subscription services to
| generate nearly $2 billion in revenue this year and will reach
| as high as $25 billion by the end of the decade
|
| I assume they view Carplay/Android Auto as a barrier to their
| subscription plans. Why would I pay for Map Updates, or Sirius
| subscription or whatever if I can just plug my phone in?
| nerdjon wrote:
| That number seems insanely high, are people really going to
| pay for the privilege of getting maps when they can get them
| for free on their phone?
|
| I would think a lot of people would just get a phone holder
| for their car, or just choose another car.
|
| I mean GPS's charging for map updates hasn't been mainstream
| for 10ish years?
| banana_giraffe wrote:
| I agree with you, I honestly don't know what they expect
| people to pay for:
|
| > Alan Wexler [...] indicated that consumers were willing
| to pay up to $135 per month on services for their vehicles
|
| I'm sure they're working at this backwards, in that there's
| this bucket of money sitting there, and how to charge
| $135/mo to get at it.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| I think this is directly related, furthermore, I think no
| company should take Apple's deal. "You build the car and
| screens...we use them to make money/get data instead of you".
| There's a reason CarPlay licensing is free. I bet some partners
| backed out of the next-gen carplay too.
|
| There's a good argument that Apple is the bad guy here too:
| Their restriction of iMessage APIs and App-data over Bluetooth
| makes Carplay (and in a like way, the Apple Watch) the only
| real choice for iPhone owners. One could say they are taking
| the whole industry over the coals with this lockout which
| allows them to have people pay them app store subscriptions.
| There is a running line that "Apple believes they own every
| dollar that is spent on your iPhone", with carplay, it's every
| dollar in your car too.
| gwbas1c wrote:
| > We do believe there are subscription revenue opportunities for
| us ... aiming for $20 billion to $25
|
| I really, really do not want a subscription. My Teslas'
| subscription appears to be at cost; I doubt Tesla is making
| billions off of subscription fees for maps.
|
| But, even though Tesla's infotainment system is a lot more slick
| than Android Auto, I must admit that at times I'd rather use
| that. I still use Youtube Music, which my Teslas do not have an
| app for. I haven't switched to Spotify because I don't want
| another subscription.
|
| (I also think there is a way to share my phone's internet with
| the car and avoid the subscription, but I suspect the increased
| data could cost almost as much as the car's subscription anyway.)
| jfengel wrote:
| Could you use Bluetooth to play YouTube music?
|
| It sounds like it wouldn't be a great experience, since YouTube
| probably has features that Bluetooth doesn't support. But does
| it at least solve the main part of the problem, or does that
| somehow not work?
|
| (I have a podcast app that I sometimes play through Bluetooth
| when I can't connect via Android Auto. The Bluetooth version is
| less good, but it does let me listen even when my cable is
| flaky.)
| veilrap wrote:
| Yeah, bluetooth for things like YouTube music works fine, but
| it's not as streamlined - e.g. you have to do searching on
| the phone.
| MBCook wrote:
| And that's what you'll get with the new GM EVs.
|
| Use their system or use Bluetooth like it's 2004.
|
| That's not a great choice, even if their system is great.
| nkotov wrote:
| What a stupid move. Every infotainment system I used that didn't
| have CarPlay has been horrible. Either it was incredibly slow or
| hard to use. Going into a rental with CarPlay has always been
| awesome. Everything you need is right where you want it, no
| matter the vehicle. The only closest to being good has been
| Tesla.
| BLO716 wrote:
| Way to cast aside the population most likely to buy your EV. I
| guess they aren't looking at their data.
| de6u99er wrote:
| I hate this trend!
| adrianmonk wrote:
| On top of obsolescence and consumer choice issues, I also just
| don't want to configure and manage all this stuff separately in
| my car.
|
| It's going to support applications like Spotify. I don't want to
| sit in my car and get Spotify installed, get logged in, and get
| it configured on my infotainment system. Same with other apps and
| services. Same with my Google account. I don't want to do any of
| that.
|
| When I bring my phone, whatever apps I care about are already set
| up and ready to go. It's just easier.
|
| And I'm someone who can figure out how. Imagine how delightful it
| will be for people who aren't very tech savvy.
| constantlm wrote:
| This seems incredibly short-sighted.
| jmull wrote:
| > This change, the report explains, will help GM "capture more
| data on how consumers drive and charge EVs."
|
| > "We do believe there are subscription revenue opportunities for
| us," Edward Kummer, GM's chief digital officer, added. The
| company is targeting $20 billion to $25 billion in annual revenue
| from subscriptions by 2030.
|
| Yech
| rdl wrote:
| This isn't existential for buying a GM product (I could probably
| just replace the head unit?), but for a rental, I'll have to
| avoid GM EVs. Being able to rent basically any car on the lot and
| just have CarPlay work, with the only question being USB A, USB
| C, or wireless, is pretty nice today.
| qgin wrote:
| The problem is a lot of these cars don't have head units. They
| just have all sorts of irregular LCD screens built in to the
| dash.
| bastardoperator wrote:
| I love my yukon, but I'm not buying anything with google inside
| of it or anything without carplay. This seems like a
| miscalculation because GM sells some expensive vehicles, and
| people with lots of money in my limited experience have iphones.
| KMnO4 wrote:
| I don't think I would buy a car that didn't have CarPlay. I'm an
| iPhone user and have no interest in changing my phone.
|
| People reject cars all the time for even more trivial things (oh
| -- this one doesn't have wireless charging? Next.), so I can't
| imagine this being a smart idea for GM.
| nickthegreek wrote:
| Back in 2017, I didnt buy a toyota for the first time because
| they didn't offer carplay. I refuse to be stuck with a subpar
| experience for the 10 years I normally keep a vehicle.
| Absolutely ridiculous to not support both CarPlay and Android
| Auto.
| kstrauser wrote:
| That's where I'm at. Our 2016 Toyota has their horrible
| Entune system, and however much I like everything else about
| it, that thing irritates me every time I look at it.
| exhilaration wrote:
| Good news for both of you: I rented a 2022 Corolla and it
| supported both CarPlay and Android Auto. Toyota gave in!
| nickthegreek wrote:
| Well they got about 4 years before I need another car,
| unfortunately for them my new minimum requirements are
| going to also include EV. VW id.4 is my current leader.
| kipchak wrote:
| Might be worth swapping out the head unit. Best Buy will
| sell you a Sony unit with installation for $250 for
| example.
| kstrauser wrote:
| I've thought about that. I'd want one that supports the
| backup camera and all that. Do you know offhand if those
| exist at reasonable prices?
| kipchak wrote:
| The last time I replaced a unit was in 2012, but I think
| what you would be looking for is a head unit that accepts
| camera input , a wiring harness for the head unit to the
| car's wiring, a reverse camera adapter if the car doesn't
| use the standard yellow RCA-esque connector (apparently
| toyota uses several different connectors), and a
| interface adapter if you want to retain the use of the
| steering wheel controls which in total would probably be
| <$500 depending on parts. I remember Crutchfield's "will
| it fit" tools and advisors being pretty helpful.
|
| Looking around a bit, apparently there's also a neat
| though slightly more expensive product called the
| datalink maestro rr or rr2 that does the camera and head
| unit interfacing part while retaining additional
| features.
|
| https://youtu.be/AkWzSXFJYTo
| flyingcircus3 wrote:
| The reactions in this thread are interesting, because they seem
| to imply that this is the final straw that has convinced us to
| not buy Chevrolets and Buicks, as opposed to the last 30+ years
| of of their products being generally terrible.
| alistairSH wrote:
| If I needed a full-size truck, I'd consider a GM (alongside
| Toyota and Ford). Without CarPlay, I'll buy one of the other
| brands.
|
| If I wanted a near-supercar, I'd consider a Corvette. Without
| CarPlay, I'll buy a Cayman S or something else instead. The
| Corvette might be measurably better in most performance
| metrics, but if I can't use the apps I'm accustomed to using,
| I won't buy it.
|
| The rest of the GM line-up? Yeah, pretty uninspiring.
| fghorow wrote:
| Personally, I _LOVE_ my (2019) Volt. FWIW, it also has AA
| /Car Play.
|
| First they kill the Volt -- IMHO the best PHEV on the market
| when I bought it -- now they kill a vastly superior interface
| to anything I've ever used in a car.
|
| Sorry GM, you might just have lost a (stockholding, for now,
| at least) customer.
| Tempest1981 wrote:
| But the hope was that their new EV lineup would change
| things, and pull people back.
| ydant wrote:
| My household has 3 EV Chevy cars - Volt, Bolt, Spark. Buying
| another Chevy EV at some point was certainly a possibility.
|
| I even use Android, and don't personally care that much about
| Apple support, and I'm still unhappy about this and it's
| making me less interested in Chevy for the next car.
| gpanders wrote:
| It's not mentioned in the headline, but GM also intends to
| phase out Android Auto, so this is not specific to iPhones.
|
| >General Motors plans to phase out widely-used Apple
| CarPlay and Android Auto technologies that allow drivers to
| bypass a vehicle's infotainment systems, shifting instead
| to built-in infotainment systems developed with Google for
| future electric vehicles.
| smt88 wrote:
| It's been hard to predict the quality of electric vehicles
| based on the same brand's ICE/hybrid vehicles.
|
| For example, Toyota is head and shoulders better than the
| competition at ICE and hybrids, but they're arguably last in
| EVs. In fact, Consumer Reports says the Chevy Bolt is
| currently the best EV[1].
|
| 1. https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/electric-
| vehicl...
| KerrAvon wrote:
| Sort of. I know Tesla owners who've bought Bolts as secondary
| cars but would not otherwise be caught dead in a GM car.
| There are people who buy Corvettes who wouldn't consider
| another GM car. I avoid American cars at all costs but was
| still considering a Bolt before this news.
| pc86 wrote:
| Not only that but wireless CarPlay. I recently picked up a '23
| RAV4 and I didn't think it would matter but the difference is
| noticeable. At least in this model it's connected before I'm
| even out of my garage.
| voisin wrote:
| I don't understand why this can't be an OTA update? Maybe
| with slightly less functionality but why can't it just
| Bluetooth CarPlay?
| mdasen wrote:
| As others have said, it uses WiFi (set up via Bluetooth).
|
| Bluetooth doesn't support the data rates necessary to
| deliver the data for CarPlay. As for the "maybe with
| slightly less functionality" would you take no display?
| You're basically talking about Siri Eyes Free where you'd
| have a button to activate Siri on your steering wheel, but
| wouldn't get much functionality. But I'm guessing you want
| the navigation to be displayed on your screen, not just a
| bluetooth audio connection with a Siri button.
|
| Basically, the 1-2Mbps of Bluetooth really isn't enough to
| drive a display with any decent resolution and I'm guessing
| that real-world data rates are a bit less than spec with so
| much stuff in the 2.4GHz band. Microsoft notes that you
| need 1.5Mbps for 1024x768 and I'm guessing most car
| displays are better than that today
| (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-
| server/remote/remo...).
|
| Maybe you'd argue that you'd take 5 FPS and semi-
| reliability, but I just don't think they want to implement
| something that's just kinda crappy. Apple doesn't want you
| going around saying, "wireless CarPlay is garbage." Yes,
| you might understand a retrofit to a car that doesn't
| really have the capability, but 99% of people won't. It's
| not that it's impossible as much as something likely to be
| way more pain than it's worth. Even if you want it and
| would be ok with the trade-off, that's not always how
| products work. Heck, if they did implement it and it didn't
| work, would you end up using tech support for it? That
| costs money. Would you post online where your problem-
| solving becomes interpreted as "Apple sucks" even if you
| don't mean it that way?
|
| Worse, car manufactures might (and car dealers definitely
| would) start promising these models as supporting wireless
| CarPlay. Maybe Apple could deal with official marketing
| materials, but dealers will say almost anything to sell a
| car. People would be duped into buying these cars and then
| complain to Apple that their product sucks. People would be
| asking online "is this real wireless CarPlay or the fake
| kind?" The absolute headache!
|
| You can buy an adapter that will plug into the USB port if
| you want wireless CarPlay:
| https://9to5mac.com/2023/02/27/carplay-wireless-carplay-
| adap.... Basically, the information goes from your phone to
| the adapter (via Bluetooth-setup-WiFi) and then the adapter
| just sends it over USB. That's way less headache for Apple
| and probably a better experience since it actually supports
| the right data rates. I haven't used one of these so you
| should read up if you want to buy one (or try it out and
| return it if it doesn't work for you), but this seems like
| a much better alternative than trying to jam CarPlay over
| Bluetooth (without WiFi).
| Tagbert wrote:
| It's done over an adhoc wifi network, not bluetooth.
| spike021 wrote:
| As far as I understand it, it still uses Bluetooth to
| establish the connection, but the rest is done over Wifi
| (someone can feel free to correct me if not).
| alistairSH wrote:
| That's correct. Bluetooth for initial handshake type
| stuff, then ad-hoc wifi for pushing the video/data
| stream.
| dalyons wrote:
| yeah this move just guaranteed i will never buy a GM car from
| now on!
| meepmorp wrote:
| This definitely rules out GM for me.
| makestuff wrote:
| They probably see how well Tesla/Rivian sell and they do not
| have carplay. I guess you are limited to what you can do with a
| carplay/andriod auto implementation. However, I prefer carplay
| vs any other (including tesla's) implementation. I'm sure there
| is an aspect to increased complexity as well.
| halfnormalform wrote:
| Agreed. There is no way I would consider one without CarPlay.
| It has become too much a part of the driving experience.
| minutillo wrote:
| Well I have good news for you: you won't need to change your
| phone! Because they aren't supporting Android Auto either.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Not to mention, isn't CarPlay just an interface for the phone
| to be able to connect to so the screen can display the software
| operating on the phone?
|
| Near zero cost to GM, tons of convenience for GM's customers. I
| can only imagine GM wants customers' data or subscription fees,
| and Apple will not allow that. And this is a business that got
| bailed out by US taxpayers, and is explicitly too big to fail.
| conk wrote:
| It's a cost to GM because they can't nickel and dime their
| customers with subscription fees if customers can use the
| phone service they already have.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Weird how the inability to gouge is now seen as a "cost".
| smoldesu wrote:
| We've been struggling with this one for a while on the
| "open source app store" side of the conversation.
| SllX wrote:
| > And this is a business that got bailed out by US taxpayers,
| and is explicitly too big to fail.
|
| Isn't this just the gift that just keeps on giving?
| imwithstoopid wrote:
| problem is (from GM's perspective), with CarPlay, Apple takes
| over the UX of the car...the Apple logo is the first and last
| thing people see when driving
|
| GM doesn't want Apple or Google taking over the UX of the
| car, because then GM is eventually just another FoxConn
|
| and sure, there's a money thing...they want revshare from
| Spotify and every other app they can position in the UI
|
| CarPlay and Android Auto will be gone as fast as car makers
| can make it happen
| Tagbert wrote:
| In many vehicles, CarPlay and Android Auto appear within a
| panel on the overall interface, they don't have to take
| over the whole UI.
| MBCook wrote:
| All vehicles.
|
| Apple announced the total UI takeover option (though I'm
| not sure if it works today) but _no car maker_ supports
| it on a shipping vehicle.
|
| Many have announced _interest_ but at this point we don't
| know if it will ever be available, even if only on some
| kind of ultra-luxury car.
| chaostheory wrote:
| There's always the aftermarket. If CarPlay stops being a
| standard option, that is the first thing I will do with a
| new car: replace the AV
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| > CarPlay and Android Auto will be gone as fast as car
| makers can make it happen
|
| This will also be an opportunity for other car
| manufacturers to differentiate themselves: "We still
| support CarPlay"
| imwithstoopid wrote:
| > This will also be an opportunity for other car
| manufacturers to differentiate themselves: "We still
| support CarPlay"
|
| but I doubt CarPlay will even end up as the lowest-
| common-denominator...one of GM or Mercedes or whoever
| will try to get their system good enough that they can
| license it to other car companies...so CarOS or whatever
| will be the default if your car brand doesn't have a
| bespoke experience
|
| I like Android Auto and use it all the time, but I can't
| fault GM for not wanting to be treated as just another
| OEM...FoxConn does all the hard work for Apple on the
| hardware side and isn't even allowed to put their name on
| the product...the ultimate replaceable cog
|
| Apple might have been received better by car makers if it
| hadn't threatened to be developing their own
| vehicle...now all the car makers see them as a
| competitive threat
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Cars and small electronic devices are not comparable.
|
| GM is only doing this because they see an avenue to
| charge recurring fees, which smartphones obviated.
| dkarbayev wrote:
| I don't think it'll work anyway. BMW has been stubborn on
| CarPay integration by not supporting it or asking a hefty
| price for "CarPlay preparation" (which is, as far as I'm
| concerned, mostly installing a WiFi antenna on the head
| unit), all because it would have cannibalized their
| revenue from map updates and other remote services (e.g.
| real-time traffic information). But in the end, BMW gave
| up and CarPlay is included in all models by default
| starting 2022 or 2023, don't remember exactly.
| [deleted]
| sbahr001 wrote:
| Typically, you see the logo before you get into the actual
| car. I would say you can tell by the shape, but some brands
| share too much in the looks department (cough Kia/Hyundai).
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Kia and Hyundai are effectively the same company.
|
| I assume Kia is South Korea's lower end offering, Hyundai
| is their mid tier offering, and Genesis is their luxury
| offering.
| vvillena wrote:
| Nowadays Kia and Hyundai target different segments, but
| quality is about the same. Kia also does more region-
| specific models, like the Ceed in Europe and the
| Telluride in US, while Hyundai seems to have a more
| global strategy where they choose what to sell from a
| portfolio of global models.
| voisin wrote:
| > the Apple logo is the first and last thing people see
| when driving
|
| This isn't how it works in my Dodge. There is a Dodge logo
| / startup screen first, then a "don't use screen while
| driving sign that I am forced to accept _every time_ " and
| then it shows me CarPlay.
| thebiss wrote:
| Same as my current circa-2017 GM car, which shows a home
| screen with buttons or blank screen with the time. There
| is no Apple OR GM logo.
| kulahan wrote:
| Same in my BMW. The last thing I see is also a BMW logo
| across all my dash screens.
| ganoushoreilly wrote:
| Same on my Audi, Volkswagen, and Fords here to. I'm not
| sure I understand this _fear_ at all. I know carplay and
| the car are different systems.
| bdcravens wrote:
| Not the only reason, but was definitely one reason that
| contributed to the decision to cancel my Model 3 order and go
| with a Kia EV6 instead.
| browningstreet wrote:
| I said my next car would have to have CarPlay but the Tesla
| software in my Y is good enough to live without it. I rent a
| lot of cars with CarPlay, and like it, but now that the Tesla
| software supports both Apple Music and Spotify, I'm good.
| That said, I wouldn't buy a car that supported Google
| Carwhatever but not Apple CarPlay.
| st-keller wrote:
| As far as i know the tesla car has its own spotify account.
| So this only works, if you're the only one driving your
| car. In my family up to five people drive a car - I don't
| think i want one spotify-account used by five people.
| peoplearepeople wrote:
| It used to be that way, now you can set a spotify account
| per driving profile
| owenwil wrote:
| That was the case a few years ago--now you just associate
| your personal Spotify account with your Tesla driver
| profile. It auto-switches to the right one based on the
| driver, which works great!
| bdcravens wrote:
| It's not the same Spotify account you login to your phone
| with, or it only supports logging into one account?
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| This was only the case in Europe. US cars instead come
| with a Slacker account, and you need to associate your
| Spotify account to access it, same with Apple Music.
|
| Not sure if the associations are per-user or per-car,
| though. I believe there was work to move them along with
| some other settings to your "user profile" and would go
| with you across cars.
| scarface74 wrote:
| Supporting Apple Music isn't enough. For instance, I use
| Overcast as my podcast player and it has excellent Carplay
| support.
|
| I won't buy a car that doesn't support CarPlay.
| bratsche wrote:
| I have a Model 3 right now and like it well enough I guess,
| but I think next time I get a car my ideal is to get a non-
| Tesla EV that has CarPlay. My hope was that Tesla has
| pushed the industry enough to start making competitive EVs
| so that I don't have to get another Tesla. And I think I
| would prefer using CarPlay. I've used it a couple times in
| rental cars and really liked it. The screens are smaller
| and less nice than Tesla's, but the navigation on Tesla
| kind of sucks compared to Apple and Google and I think
| that's more valuable to me.
| bb123 wrote:
| The Model 3's system is one of the few out there that can
| actually compete with/replace CarPlay.
| bratsche wrote:
| Model 3's system is better than other cars I've owned, but
| not as good as what I think CarPlay can be. The only
| advantage of my Model 3 vs the rental cars I've used with
| CarPlay was that Model 3's screen is bigger and nicer and
| so the maps look nicer and I can have music info/controls
| on screen at the same time as maps. But both Apple and
| Google navigation is a lot better than Tesla's navigation.
| I also use Apple Music and was initially excited about
| getting integration into Tesla, but I continue to just use
| it through my phone instead so it ended up not mattering.
| The one thing I _hate_ about Tesla 's system is the semi-
| frequent UI changes. A moving car with a touch screen is
| not the place where I want to have to re-learn some aspect
| of a UI after I get a system update.
| zaroth wrote:
| The UI updates essentially once a year to keep up the
| with massive influx of features that are being added, and
| keep those features accessible and organized on the
| available screen real estate.
|
| Basically with Tesla you get the latest model year car
| _software_ on an ongoing basis, and it's revolutionary
| from an owner's perspective.
|
| The alternative is needing to trade in/buy a whole new
| model year car to get to enjoy whatever new feature,
| which is how it always used to work, and is so scammy.
|
| If you don't want the latest software, you can always
| choose not the install it, but you would be seriously
| limiting the performance, comfort, safety and
| entertainment value of your car.
|
| Most cars don't get faster, safer, and cheaper to operate
| after you buy them, but Tesla's do. The obvious trade-off
| to getting the latest model year's software and features
| is getting the latest model year's UI as well.
| cjdoc29 wrote:
| Agreed, but I have my gripes with the system. We waited a
| long time for Apple Music to come to the infotainment - and
| even then it's slow, you cannot adjust to a higher music
| quality, you can't download playlists to local storage, I
| need to login every month, etc.
|
| Additionally, my 2019 Model 3's infotainment is noticeably
| slower than a 2023's. I'd hate to be limited by compute in
| a car that I'll probably replace in 8 years. If it's my
| phone, the replacement time is much shorter (and much more
| affordable!).
|
| It would not stop me from buying another Tesla. The
| infotainment is generally fantastic (as is the rest of the
| car). But CarPlay would make the music and podcast
| experience so much better.
| zaroth wrote:
| Tesla started shipping the new AMD based MCU3 at the end
| of 2021. MCU2 in previously Model 3s is an Intel Atom
| architecture.
|
| Previously Tesla offered MCU1 to MCU2 paid upgrades for
| Model S/X owners. It seems unlikely that Tesla will offer
| anything similar for MCU2 to MCU3 but not impossible that
| it could be done as a 3rd party retrofit. The connectors
| and physical dimensions are different so it's not
| trivial.
| owenwil wrote:
| It _is_ excellent, but it is annoyingly ignorant of
| integrating with phones. If you have an Android phone you
| can send and receive texts, but no other notifications come
| in and nothing else is projected there either. If you have
| an iPhone, it works _sometimes_ but I am rarely able to
| reply to messages using voice successfully. I wish it
| better extended into my phone, but it's largely because of
| Apple's rules, which I guess aren't Tesla's fault--but are
| a side-effect of not using carplay.
| bumby wrote:
| While annoying, my real gripe is what this says about
| their development process. If you can't get these things
| right, how can I trust that you will get the safety
| critical software right?
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _you can't get these things right, how can I trust that
| you will get the safety critical software right_
|
| Does any major car manufacturer routinely nail their
| infotainment systems?
| bumby wrote:
| No, but other manufacturers are much more conservative
| about how they market their software (e.g., naming it
| 'driver assist' vs 'autopilot'). It's an obvious and
| explicit declaration that their software should not be
| relied on to be the main mitigation in safety-critical
| scenarios.
| bombcar wrote:
| Infotainment is so horribly universally bad that Apple
| CarPlay and the Android equivalent came into being.
| Robotbeat wrote:
| Yeah... I honestly think that altho the Tesla
| infotainment system isn't perfect, if we're gonna judge
| the safety competency of car companies based on how good
| their in-house infotainment is, Tesla's would be far and
| above the best (until the Apple car comes out or
| something...).
| mig39 wrote:
| GM has no other way to distinguish itself from the others.
|
| If it came down to choosing between a GM without CarPlay and a
| Ford or Toyota with CarPlay, I wouldn't choose a GM.
| esskay wrote:
| Car manufacturers have proven they have zero ability to make any
| kind of in car entertainment system with software that isn't a
| giant pile of crap, a pile of crap which they abandon and never
| update.
|
| GM is committing suicide here, what an idiotic move.
| kiawe_fire wrote:
| Well this sucks.
|
| I bought a Chevy Blazer last year, and it's the best car I've
| ever owned. Great balance of design, gas mileage, comfort, etc.
|
| I was definitely planning to make my next car the EV version of
| this.
|
| Part of that package is flawless CarPlay integration. It's
| simplified the music and navigation experience more than I ever
| thought possible.
|
| The only reason I wouldn't demand it on my next car is if
| something demonstrably and overwhelmingly better came along.
|
| Everything described in the article sounds worse.
|
| Subscription services tied to my car and not my phone?
|
| Needing to maintain navigation routes on my car AND my phone?
|
| Being forced to use only built in apps like Spotify instead of
| "whatever is on my phone that supports car play"?
|
| Waiting on my car to decide when I can get the newest navigation
| app or the latest update to Spotify like this is some janky non-
| Roku smart TV from 2012?
|
| No thanks.
|
| > GM's decision to stop offering those systems in future electric
| vehicles, starting with the 2024 Chevrolet Blazer, could help the
| automaker capture more data on how consumers drive and charge
| EVs.
|
| That doesn't even make sense.
|
| NONE of those things would require an absence of CarPlay, nor
| would they require the presence of some omnipresent Google / GM
| replacement.
|
| Those metrics are all collected by the systems using them, with
| the infotainment simply being one possible UI for display of
| those metrics.
|
| Sucks. Just when I found a car brand and manufacturer that seemed
| to be doing things well, and I was excited for the EV version of
| it, they pull this.
|
| Why can't I have nice things?
| JohnBooty wrote:
| Part of that package is flawless CarPlay integration.
| It's simplified the music and navigation experience
| more than I ever thought possible.
|
| Yes. CarPlay and Android Auto support is absolute table stakes
| for me to even consider a vehicle.
|
| Personally I don't use Android and could live without it if
| needed, but I have friends who do and it's nice for them to be
| able to plug their phones in and navigate or DJ when in my car.
|
| People don't want another device to manage. They want their
| auto to be a display device for their mobile device, with which
| they are already infinitely familiar.
| nashashmi wrote:
| I think the data collection part is a surmise from the author.
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| It's not supposition. Every vehicle that has telematics
| hardware, regardless of subscription status or options
| purchased, is sending a near constant stream of location,
| vehicle, and environmental data back to the manufacturer.
|
| The only way to stop it is to disconnect the antenna for the
| cellular modem or cut its power.
| kiawe_fire wrote:
| Thank you. Re-reading it, I'm sure you're correct.
|
| > GM would benefit from focusing engineers and investment on
| one approach to more tightly connecting in-vehicle
| infotainment and navigation with features such as assisted
| driving, Edward Kummer, GM's chief digital officer, and Mike
| Himche, executive director of digital cockpit experience,
| said in an interview.
|
| This is the actual reasoning provided by GM sources in the
| article. I jumped the gun.
|
| I can very much sympathize with the desire to concentrate
| engineering efforts, and I'm sure there are things they would
| love to spend time on that would be eclipsed or ignored if
| the user lives in CarPlay or Android Auto.
|
| But this is concentrating resources in the wrong direction,
| for the wrong reasons, with little useful gain.
| kotaKat wrote:
| I mean, GM did gather the listening habits of 90,000
| "volunteers".
|
| https://boingboing.net/2018/10/23/dont-touch-that-dial.html
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| > if something demonstrably and overwhelmingly better came
| along.
|
| I'm pretty sure that is what GM's play is here. There's a lot
| of confusion. They are moving to Google Automotive Services,
| complete with Android and the Play store where you pick what is
| on your car. Apple music is one of those apps.
|
| > Subscription services tied to my car and not my phone?
|
| Data Subscription, it is Google play under it all.
|
| > Needing to maintain navigation routes on my car AND my phone?
|
| Google Maps is on both and would likely work as well.
|
| > Being forced to use only built in apps like Spotify instead
| of "whatever is on my phone that supports car play"? Google
| Play, how you get apps in next-gen GM Android Automotive would
| have the same apps.
|
| It works exactly like having a Mac/PC and a phone.
| kiawe_fire wrote:
| > There's a lot of confusion. They are moving to Google
| Automotive Services, complete with Android and the Play store
| where you pick what is on your car.
|
| Thanks. That clarifies, considering the article gives the
| impression this would be a GM-siloed system built in
| collaboration with Google.
|
| The problems remain mostly the same, and the notion of GM de-
| facto crowning Google and its Android-based solution the "one
| true solution" feels like something that will isolate iPhone
| users.
|
| There's a big difference between being able to use Apple
| Music because it's an app offered on the Google Auto Services
| version of the Play Store, and the general-purpose solution
| of being able to use it because Apple Music supports CarPlay
| and your car supports CarPlay.
|
| There are other potential issues that I don't know the answer
| to without a bit more research. What about multiple users?
| The beauty of the Android Auto / CarPlay model was that my
| friend could hop into my car, plug in his phone, and
| immediately get access to his Spotify app, already on his
| phone, with his stuff. And just as quickly as he does that,
| he can unplug and let my paired phone take over again.
|
| It's really a beautiful design in its simplicity for the end
| user - no installing apps, no signing in to an account on
| "yet another device", if it's on your phone, and it supports
| CarPlay, then you get it in your car.
|
| Not only does it sound like this replaces that for iPhone
| users, it ALSO sounds like some of these problems will exist
| equally for Android Auto users, as once again you are moving
| the environment of apps and services from the individual
| user's phone, into the car.
|
| Edit:
|
| Doing a bit more research on Google Automotive Services
| specifically, I found this in an article [1]:
|
| > Android Automotive is also responsible for every
| interaction with your car's in-dash display. [...] Even iOS
| users will launch CarPlay through Automotive, a humorous
| convergence of the two platforms.
|
| If this applies, then it sounds like CarPlay could indeed be
| an option, by way of an app downloaded from the Play Store.
| If so, this mitigates a healthy number of my issues. However,
| if so, then why the article declaring CarPlay is going away
| in GM if it isn't?
|
| Just very poor article writing? Lack of knowledge amongst the
| people interviewed at this stage?
|
| Also, next from the article is this:
|
| > GAS (yes, the acronym is almost certainly on purpose) is
| all of your favorite Google system applications rolled into
| one package. As an end-user, you'll never interact with GAS
| by its chosen name. Instead, you'll see the benefits of this
| system, specifically if you purchase a car from one of
| Google's partners.
|
| > Considering how many drivers, especially in the U.S., rely
| on iOS and CarPlay to get from place to place, it makes sense
| that some automakers (especially smaller companies) might
| pass on adopting these services.
|
| So... what does this mean? CarPlay and GAS are mutually
| exclusive? Can individual auto makers determine which apps
| are available in the Play Store?
|
| I'm left with about as many questions as have been answered.
|
| [1] https://www.androidpolice.com/android-auto-vs-android-
| automo...
| alistairSH wrote:
| _Google Maps is on both_
|
| Not mine. Oh well, another reason to skip GM.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| It works exactly like having a Mac/PC and a phone.
|
| Right. It's now _two_ devices to manage (car and phone)
| instead of a single one (just your phone, which treats the
| car like a second monitor)
|
| Now I'd have to manage credentials on two different devices.
| Change my Spotify password? Two places to update it. Etc. And
| now I've got credentials stored in my car? That's a security
| situation to worry about in case of breakin/theft.
|
| It also totally kills the use case of letting multiple
| passengers simply plug their phones into the car's head unit.
| Might have my phone, my wife's phone, or the passengers'
| phones plugged into the head unit depending on who's doing
| the navigating and who's doing the DJ'ing. Now thanks to GM
| instead of simply swapping the cable, I guess we can take
| turns signing in and out of a bunch of different apps? lol,
| nooooooo thanks.
|
| I thought auto makers were finally wising up about a couple
| of things. One, it looks like they're finally slowly coming
| back around to physical controls where it makes sense.
|
| Two, I thought they were giving up on the idea of their own
| bespoke entertainment solutions in favor of giving people
| what they actually want, which is Airplay/Android Auto.
| People don't want another device to manage. They just want to
| plug their freaking phone in.
|
| Normally I wouldn't be irritated; I'd be happy to let the
| market vote. But cars are complicated beasts these days and
| there's an awful lot of functionality to demo and digest when
| shopping. There are a lot of auto features that aren't
| obviously terrible or obviously amazing; they only reveal
| themselves as such after you've lived with them for a little
| while.
| leipert wrote:
| > It works exactly like having a Mac/PC and a phone
|
| Have you seen the shitshow which modern TVs are with their
| smart apps that stop functioning over time? A car is supposed
| to function for longer than 2 years and who is gonna force
| the manufacturer to support updates longer than that?
|
| With CarPlay I am able to bring a functioning Nav, Music and
| everything.
| abruzzi wrote:
| My biggest issue with this would be that the Apple Music app
| only streams from the streaming service. Those of use happily
| chugging along with iTunes purchases and iTunes Match are out
| of luck.
| sitkack wrote:
| Not only will GM look bad, but the press when they dump Android
| Auto will see a cliff in Android marketshare.
| classified wrote:
| Will Google display ads in your car or just hoover up all your
| data?
| auxfil wrote:
| More capturing of personal data and more shoving subscriptions
| down our throats. Nope. Sod off GM.
| jedberg wrote:
| Is the Android Auto interface part of Android open source? If it
| is, what stops Apple from making CarPlay compatible with Android
| Auto protocols?
| flax wrote:
| The same thing that stops Apple from making their phones USB-C
| compatible, or iMessage RCS compatible, or making the app store
| back-end not require xCode and a mac merely to upload a file.
| They are a monopoly, and they are trying to coerce consumers to
| give them more money.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| GM is killing Both carplay and AA, everyone is confused all
| over the place and reporting is awful.
|
| The new system runs off "Google Automotive Services" (AKA: GAS
| - Native Google Android on the car's computer hardware)
| complete with the Play Store. Apple could always build iMessage
| and Apple Maps for GAS.
| jedberg wrote:
| That actually makes a lot more sense. Unfortunate that it's
| going that way though. Thanks for the info.
| juve1996 wrote:
| > Kummer also acknowledged that there are "subscription revenue
| opportunities." Don't be surprised if you're paying a recurring
| fee for certain features like you already do with some brands.
|
| This is getting so tiresome. Not only have car prices exploded,
| now we have to pay for subscription features too.
|
| I just don't know how much more of this we can take. Companies no
| longer innovate. They all just rent seek because there's no true
| competition anymore.
| grepfru_it wrote:
| welcome to the service economy!
| a_vanderbilt wrote:
| This is such a boneheaded decision I can't help but laugh.
| Everyone I know who has tried CarPlay now avoids cars that do not
| have it. When I bought my Miata last year, I specifically chose
| the trim with CarPlay capability. I will not by a car that does
| not have it.
| BLO716 wrote:
| I think GM (and most car manufacturers) miss out on the
| partnerships with such players like Apple and Google entirely to
| extend their OS reach and ubiquity. The SYNERGY could be a
| billion dollar package add-on. What also puzzles me was why Tesla
| never bought Apple or vis versa. The UI/UX fast-track in such an
| endeavor would be mind boggling.
| [deleted]
| puma_ambit wrote:
| Wow, yeah not gonna buy that new GMC Yukon now.
| devinegan wrote:
| I haven't seen anyone mention car rentals in this thread. It is a
| huge bonus to have an interface, maps, music, etc you know and
| trust. When renting a car in the last 5 years it is basically
| standard to have access to CarPlay, and it is the same system
| many of us use in our own cars. Will rental companies buy
| vehicles without it, and support this move too?
| criddell wrote:
| I always travel with a phone mount in case my rental car
| doesn't have CarPlay.
| gnicholas wrote:
| This is a good point, but pretty much all rental companies have
| GM vehicles, and renters get stuck with whatever is available.
| I doubt renters will change their behaviors because they won't
| be able to effectively avoid GM vehicles. So as a result,
| rental companies won't change their behavior either.
|
| It will just suck for renters a bit more than before.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Maybe, maybe not. I would pay $10 more per day for a car with
| CarPlay.
|
| And I would pick Enterprise over Avis if it came down to
| availability of CarPlay.
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| I've seen a lot of Toyotas and Kias for rentals. Not a lot of
| American cars.
| nozzlegear wrote:
| > GM's move to restrict access to CarPlay and Android Auto [...]
| will help the automaker capture more data on its customers'
| driving, listening, and charging habits. It could also help
| inform future subscription products, as automakers across the
| board are seeking to generate more revenue beyond just selling
| cars.
|
| Yeah no thanks. I have a 2023 Chevy Bolt EUV that I absolutely
| love, but I will not be buying another GM vehicle if this is what
| they're going to be doing.
| grepfru_it wrote:
| your 2023 chevy bolt euv is already streaming all of your
| driving parameters to GM via onstar.
|
| the "help" they are referring to is offloading the transmission
| of these parameters to your wireless device vs their built-in
| wireless device ($$$)
| nozzlegear wrote:
| > your 2023 chevy bolt euv is already streaming all of your
| driving parameters to GM via onstar.
|
| Is it? I've already turned off the Chevrolet Smart Driver or
| whatever it's called, I know about that one sending data back
| to GM. And I canceled OnStar as soon as I purchased the
| vehicle, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn if it's still
| siphoning data anyway.
|
| Still, the situation would get worse for me because at least
| right now using CarPlay they aren't getting all the data
| about which books or music I'm listening to.
| grepfru_it wrote:
| yes it is, i am intimately aware of that project :) onstar
| is always connected to the car, you cannot disable it.
| tbihl wrote:
| What happens if you disconnect the antenna? I recognize
| that they could be made integral to some other
| components, but at least in phones where I've removed
| radios and cameras, that has never been the case.
|
| Do the cars have some sort of spite-brick functionality
| built in if the cars can't phone home? This is purely
| curiosity; I doubt that I would ever buy a GM car.
| ydant wrote:
| Currently there's a dedicated fuse for the OnStar system.
| You can pull that and the consumer facing OnStar
| functionality stops working (remote monitoring, etc). I
| assume it's really actually fully disabled by the fuse,
| but I can't guarantee it.
| nozzlegear wrote:
| That's disappointing to hear, thanks for the info!
| foobarian wrote:
| It's clear what happens next:
|
| 1. GM cars suddenly sell for $2-3k less than competition
|
| 2. Competition scrambles to catch up, implements similar
| shenanigans to monetize the car computer
|
| 3. No more unrestricted CarPlay
| saagarjha wrote:
| Chevy Bolt is already cheaper than most of their competitors.
| Moto7451 wrote:
| My understanding is that CarPlay costs nothing other than
| implementation costs for car makers and head unit makers. Do
| you hav proof otherwise? This cost delta seems unlikely based
| just on CarPlay and Android Auto.
| afavour wrote:
| The OP is suggesting that the data/subscription revenue
| from GM's NotCarplay system will allow them to sell the car
| at a relative loss.
| dalyons wrote:
| i think they mean that because of the "subscription
| revenue" potential of forcing people onto their propriety
| OS GM will be able to sell the car at a discount. Not that
| carplay costs more in of itself.
| sitkack wrote:
| And then when they don't see the revenues, they dump
| Android Auto and get bailed out by the people again.
| flictonic wrote:
| Yeah, one of the major perks of the EUV is the wireless
| Carplay.
| exabrial wrote:
| > GM Chief Executive Mary Barra is aiming for $20 billion to $25
| billion in annual revenue from subscriptions by 2030.
|
| Well I guess this will be my last GM vehicle!
| Niksko wrote:
| I own a pretty old car, so haven't got the bells and whistles.
| But I've just rented a new model Camry for the last 3 weeks, and
| here's my takeaways:
|
| Android Auto is much better than Apple Carplay. Carplay was janky
| and the navigation stuttered. Also the layout of the on-screen UI
| was weird, and poorly thought out. As usual I think, Android Auto
| is probably designed to work ok on any size screen and gracefully
| degrade. Carplay is probably impeccable on a few cars and crap on
| the rest (like this Camry).
|
| But my pain point is that it would be easy not to notice that
| this exists. My mum for example has a very new car, I'm sure it
| supports Android Auto, I'd be shocked if she knew it exists. GM
| could make plenty of money from people who don't know Android
| Auto/Carplay exists (or from those that prefer to not need a
| phone), while still supporting Auto/Carplay for those that want
| it.
| onewheeltom wrote:
| Android Auto = uber janky
| spike021 wrote:
| I've used Carplay in a few cars. Mine doesn't even have it
| built-in, I swapped in an aftermarket Pioneer headunit that has
| Carplay.
|
| It's worked fine with various sizes of screen.
|
| As far as lag, there's some lag when using wireless Carplay
| mostly IME for audio playback, basically akin to the same delay
| when using Bluetooth.
|
| I've never had nav issues with Apple Maps, but since iOS 16 or
| so, Google Maps frequently has issues where it stops updating
| my current location and gets stuck until I force-quit the app
| and re-open it, so that's a bummer.
|
| Otherwise it's been fine. Handy the time I had to use a Kia
| rental and as soon as my phone was paired to it it was like my
| own personal car.
| Operyl wrote:
| The lag on Carplay definitely seems to be the infotainment
| system, I have a new Corolla and have noticed similar issues
| (even compared to previous versions). The Mazda implementation
| is smooth and pretty high framerate.
| aaronbrethorst wrote:
| Convince me to never buy a GM vehicle with this one weird trick.
| gurumeditations wrote:
| Data collection and subscription charging...
| knodi wrote:
| Just make it optional feature, duh!!
| freediverx wrote:
| Is there a lot of crossover appeal between fans of Apple products
| and GM cars?
| Haga wrote:
| [dead]
| joshstrange wrote:
| I largely ignored CarPlay since it came out since my car didn't
| support it and I didn't feel like I was missing much vs my
| mounted phone but recently I borrowed a car for a few days that
| had CarPlay and I really enjoyed it. So much better than anything
| from any car manufacturer and the integration was flawless. In
| fact, my biggest issue was figuring out how to get back into the
| CarPlay UI from the car default UI when I started the car (I'm
| sure there was an easy way and I took a convoluted way).
|
| For a long time I said "Just give me keyless entry/start,
| bluetooth, and a backup camera and I'll be happy" but now I
| really want CarPlay as well. The car I was driving was much nicer
| than mine in a number of ways (adaptive cruise control, lane
| keeping assist, etc, all stuff I enjoyed) but CarPlay was the one
| thing I'd really love to have.
| tbihl wrote:
| Does carplay hijack the phone pretty aggressively? I've tried
| the Android one a few times, but it prevents manipulation of
| the phone while you're riding and the phone has to ask of the
| head unit (and be rejected) permission to disable Bluetooth to
| restore the phone. Then you have to ask the driver to get,
| unlock, and relinquish his phone for you to accomplish the
| task.
|
| It's possible I was the victim of bad default settings, as I
| turned the whole thing off each time after this happened.
| weeblewobble wrote:
| It used to work as more of a screen mirror (e.g. if the
| passenger changes apps on the phone the CarPlay screen would
| change as well) but they updated it a few years ago and now
| they are totally independent, except there's only one
| "version" of each app so if you change the navigation
| destination on the phone it'll change on the CarPlay screen.
| kgermino wrote:
| IME the iPhone works normally, but if you have a navigation
| app running a route that app turns into a list of the next
| steps with no options to view a map, add a stop, or
| manipulate anything.
|
| It's really frustrating for us when, e.g. we have the route
| to the final destination on screen but the passenger wants to
| look for a place to stop and eat. They either have to use the
| car touchscreen (intended for the driver and limiting for
| someone who can give it full attention) or juggle multiple
| maps apps or phones.
| kemayo wrote:
| It used to, but a few years ago (2019 I think?) they changed
| so that it's a properly separate display.
|
| The only thing you can't do is separately play audio from the
| phone (because the CarPlay unit is basically serving as its
| output while it's connected), or use your maps app to do
| something _different_ while the navigation is running on the
| CarPlay unit (because CarPlay is just a view into the phone
| 's apps, and so they'll both be in navigation mode).
| orf wrote:
| CarPlay is awesome, but I found the lack of being able to
| use maps very restricting. If you're driving with someone
| who is co-piloting then them being able to use your phone
| to scout ahead for stops, restaurants etc is really useful.
|
| We ended up using Google Maps for this while navigating
| with Apple Maps.
| weeblewobble wrote:
| Yeah or they can just use their own phone
| orf wrote:
| Not sure how juggling two phones, then having to manually
| copy addresses with potentially foreign characters
| between them is better.
|
| No, just let me view the damn map on my phone and the car
| display?
| glhaynes wrote:
| It's strange to me that Apple Maps is the only app I know
| of that works this way.
| bluecalm wrote:
| Quick Google search tells me there are currently 65 million GM
| vehicles on the roads in US. Let's say that can add 25 million
| new ones till 2030 which sounds very optimistic for them. To have
| their forecast of the subscription revenue materialize they would
| need to charge 1000$ per car per year or about 80$/month.
|
| That seems crazy to me. People might be coming to terms with
| subscription but 80$/month is an expensive one and you also need
| to convince them to pay that for a car - not excatly a natural
| market for it.
|
| Aren't they way too optimistic on this one?
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| When your car payment is $400/month, what's another $80? /s
| kotaKat wrote:
| The base OnStar plan to use Google Built In is $25/mo, to get
| emergency crash response that plan doubles to $50/mo.
|
| So no, they're right in line with right how they want to gouge
| customers.
| malshe wrote:
| The real reason for this is at the end of the article:
|
| "We do believe there are subscription revenue opportunities for
| us," Kummer said. GM Chief Executive Mary Barra is aiming for $20
| billion to $25 billion in annual revenue from subscriptions by
| 2030.
| sergiomattei wrote:
| Bone headed move. People pay top dollar to retrofit CarPlay
| stereos into older cars.
|
| I did it to my Nissan Sentra 2011, no regrets. Such a value add.
| GM deserves whatever they get for this move.
| viro wrote:
| That's a huge mistake. I shit you not when I say CarPlay was the
| main thing I looked when I bought my last car.
| eksx wrote:
| Ditto. I also am shopping for a new car just for the sole
| purpose of having wireless CarPlay. I put over 100k miles on my
| car in 3 years so I would consider myself in the well above
| average tier for car usage. Apple CarPlay has improved the
| driving experience considerably.
| scarface74 wrote:
| Just a little story:
|
| Back in 2006, Apple went to Verizon and wanted certain
| concessions from them for the iPhone - including no third party
| crapware. Verizon refused. Apple went to their competitor AT&T
| who did accept Apple's demands.
|
| Verizon started losing customers and they came crawling back yo
| Apple.
|
| Apple did the same in other countries with the same results.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| This is so obviously user-unfriendly. All I can guess here is
| that GM is hoping to slip it past potential purchasers.
|
| There is a lot of information to digest when buying a car,
| particularly EVs. If the salesperson says "oh yeah, you can just
| plug your iphone in" I can see a certain % of people assuming it
| has actual CarPlay support and not bothering to demo that
| feature. It's the kind of thing you might not notice until after
| you've actually brought the car home.
|
| People overwhelmingly don't want another device to manage. This
| is overwhelmingly true for both tech-savvy types and folks who
| are allergic to tech.
|
| They are comfortable with their phones and don't go anywhere
| without them and they would just like the info screen on their
| car to be a relatively dumb display device for their phones.
| DemiGuru wrote:
| Very shortsighted IMHO. By keeping both they will be broadening
| the appeal of their cars to a larger segment of the market. All
| in favor of a subscription model??
|
| "Buyers of GM EVs with the new systems will get access to Google
| Maps and Google Assistant, a voice command system, at no extra
| cost for eight years, GM said. GM said the future infotainment
| systems will offer applications such as Spotify's music service,
| Audible and other services that many drivers now access via
| smartphones"
| criddell wrote:
| I think they would argue the shortsighted plan would be to
| stick with CarPlay and Android Auto because they are here now
| and work. The long term plan is to control in-car
| hardware/software and find ways to generate revenue from it.
|
| Maybe the real money is in services?
|
| It's possible they may sell fewer cars, but make more money
| overall. The article says they think they can generate $20-$25
| billion of subscription revenue by 2030. That's the revenue
| from about 400,000 vehicles. If their vehicle sales drop by
| less than 17%, they win.
| danaris wrote:
| This is the kind of user-hostile, maximum-profit-at-all-costs
| thinking that is absolutely ruining various aspects of our
| society, economy, etc. Just like streaming services, where
| it's absolutely clear that people are happy to pay a
| reasonable monthly subscription for on-demand access to all
| the shows they like (see: Netflix several years ago), but the
| content _owners_ are just horrified at the thought that they
| don 't get both every drop of revenue they can possibly
| squeeze out of every customer, _and_ absolute iron-clad
| control of the experience from beginning to end.
|
| I don't care if it's "rational" behavior for the business;
| it's disgusting and shouldn't be allowed. The good of society
| should always come before increasing profits _even higher_
| for already-massive, already-highly-profitable companies.
| helmsb wrote:
| Regardless of whether you prefer Apple or Google, the benefit of
| phone projection is that you can get a good experience with
| relatively low specs from the head unit because the heavy lifting
| is done by the phone which can be upgraded independently of the
| car.
|
| Even powered by Google, the infotainment system is going to age
| like milk since you'll be locked into hardware that will be
| midrange at best, several years old by the time it's released
| with no upgrade path.
|
| The only group of consumers that it could possibly benefit is
| people who want an EV but don't use a smartphone and thus can't
| take advantage of AA or CarPlay. I have a feeling that Venn
| Diagram is just two independent circles.
|
| This is purely so GM can add subscriptions and harvest more data.
| Heaven forbid they make their money just selling a car.
| rektide wrote:
| I 90% agree, but also, there's a ton of informational & sensors
| & systems that need control. With physical
| knobs/dials/switches/buttons disappearing, the main console now
| has a lot more obligations than just infotainment like it used
| to, and it's not clear that letting a phone run the show is
| really viable with what's afoot, given the scope of systems the
| display has to control. Wait, sorry. It's not clear how we'd
| get sufficient data to the phone to let it try. We just don't
| have clear starting places to let the phone act as a good
| puppet-master over such an expansive complex multi-screened
| roving multi-functional device.
|
| This is actually a very interesting ubiquitous & pervasive
| computing challenge. If we do want to let the phone be the main
| thing in control, it has to access & orchestrate a lot more
| systems than it has.
|
| Back in 2012, the BMW/Land Rover/Jaguar folk (I think they were
| one entity then?) car-maker had started making interesting
| demos based on an already longstanding very interesting user-
| first user-sovereign ubicomp project, Webinos
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webinos, still a halcyon model
| of what connected-computing might have been (but with almost no
| uptake)), & were making really interesting API-based
| integrations, over effectively VPN networks directly to their
| cars. I don't remember whether things like HVAC control or
| lighting were integrated (I suspect so), but there were
| definitely a lot of examples of radar/lidar integration, engine
| information (tach, fuel remaining, battery voltages, et
| cetera). This >10 year old example is by far the most pro-user
| most open-possibility system we've ever done, by a country
| mile. https://www.wired.com/2012/10/bmw-webinos/
|
| One of the most interesting things to me was just a couple
| short years latter, 2015, with the Jeep hack. The emphasis was
| that someone could gain access to your car network & do bad
| things, but this was the first time we'd ever gotten a real
| peak into a car network & it was fascinating. The often-
| underlying QNX OS it turns out- even though it is not Linux-
| runs a bog-standard-ish FreeDesktop DBus service bus, and all
| car systems are exposed over DBus. _ALL_ car services. So like,
| one could fully automate & script their own car, via the Jeep
| hack (which IIRC typically required some physical access to
| break in via). It would be utterly trivial to script a bunch of
| nice lighting & sound effects, to roll back the moon-roof &
| dynamically set a mild thumping VU meter lighting, to
| dynamically roll the EQ low & high,... the possibilities were
| so open, over such a common well known easy to control system.
| The Jeep Hack was the most exciting look at what life could be
| like, but it was mostly used to sell Fear Uncertainty & Doubt,
| to insure even less people had access to cars.
|
| Somewhere someplace sometime this trend needs to turn around.
| Somewhere someplace sometime we need to start figuring out how
| to pipe relevant systems to the user's agent. Rather than
| forever letting the car take-over more and more, forever
| reducing agency, forever shrinking what is possible.
| croutonwagon wrote:
| 100% this is true.
|
| Even a decent head unit these days has a HORRID UI.
|
| I put a Kenwood DMX907s into my truck, specifically for the
| Carplay and/or Andorid Auto experience (being wireless
| carplay/AA)
|
| Whenever I have to actually use the headunit, its shockingly
| bad UI. Ford, GM etc have similar. And they charge out the
| wazoo to do upgrade on poor unsuspecting customers like my in-
| laws, that rather opt to come visit and let me deal with the
| quirks (and there are plenty, including what type of USB-A
| drive you can use to perform an upgrade, nevermind trying an
| OTA on wifi and allowing the truck to idle for 4 hour in the
| driveway...)
|
| Given that most cars now rely on in-dash/touchscreen style
| feature gadgets to attract new buys over things like
| reliability/serviceability, you would think they would prefer
| to allow the techy's do the software and UI design in
| Apple/Google and not vendor lock one or the other. I would
| guess whatever company opts to go with a seamless carplay/AA
| experience, possibly with a control app for things like AC
| controls, would be king in this spacec (NOTE: ive given up
| asking for 3 knob AC controls, apparently I the only soul this
| earth that things 3 knobs that doest require visual attention
| to adjust the climate in a car is perfection.)
| rhtgrg wrote:
| Yes, removing CarPlay is not a great move, and is rightfully
| being bashed in this thread -- but these kinds of OEM
| integrations are far beyond a smartphone subsitute, especially
| given what's coming down the pipe for auto. As you allude to in
| your comment already, CarPlay is a "projection", a one-way deal
| -- whereas most of these integrations make heavy use of data
| from car sensors, which enables a lot of high fidelity features
| (including self-driving and advanced HUD indicators) that
| simply aren't possible with a smartphone, no matter how
| "independently upgraded" it is.
|
| In the future, perhaps phones can integrate better with cars
| and enable that kind of experience, but we aren't there today.
| Tagbert wrote:
| And I don't need that level of integration. The passive
| CarPlay UI projection is exactly what I want. It's not all
| about driving to charging stations. That is a rare
| occurrence.
| genmud wrote:
| I actually got rid of a chevy truck for this precise reason.
| GMs design choices in their god-awful infotainment system was
| so annoying I couldn't stand using it. I got rid of that thing
| within a year and traded it for a F150, which had a
| _significantly_ better UI and support for apple carplay (even
| though it required it to be plugged in).
|
| Its like nobody ever used their vehicles before they shipped
| it.
|
| Some of my favorite anti-patterns (circa 2015):
|
| - No way to remote start the vehicle with the remote (required
| a subscription and a phone app to remote start the car) - No
| way to enter navigation destinations in head unit (required
| subscription and phone app to do any GPS) - If you didn't have
| a phone, you had to use a phone based service - Bluetooth
| connections would randomly stop working - Bluetooth controls
| would only work from head unit requiring you to remove your
| hand from the wheel - Some faults would require you to turn off
| the vehicle, open the door and wait 30 seconds for the head
| unit to reboot
|
| Overall, 0 / 10... would never own another vehicle from them
| again.
| mgdev wrote:
| I plan to phase GM out of my consideration set for all new
| purchases, with GM's help.
| BLO716 wrote:
| After replacing the head unit in my Tacoma, I couldn't live my
| life w/o the modern amenities with Apple CarPlay, TBH. I drive my
| wife's Nissan and just so let down on the interface of early
| Rogues .. but at least the entire setup now comes up in a 2020 we
| drive. Anyway ... GM is shooting themselves in the foot on this
| one.
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| Which head unit did you choose? I'm looking to replace my
| factory default 2-din.
| mikestew wrote:
| I replaced a 2-DIN unit in our 2005 Scion xB probably ten
| years ago with a Pioneer. No need to send a link to a ten-
| year old product, but go to Crutchfield (if in U. S.), search
| on "pioneer CarPlay", and you'll get head units with CarPlay
| from $300 on up. Ours is one of the nicer ones (at the time),
| and even without CarPlay it's still a nice unit.
|
| We've replaced the unit in the Sprinter RV with a JVC (which,
| from what I can gather, is just a Chinese brand that bought
| the name) for something like $300. We pretty much only use
| CarPlay in that vehicle, which is fine because the rest of
| the unit is pretty low-end, including the UI. But the CarPlay
| piece gets the job done.
| dpb001 wrote:
| +1 for Crutchfield - have had nothing but good experiences
| with them for instructions and support
| mikestew wrote:
| I've purchased from Crutchfield, as did my father before
| me, for over 40 years. Not one...single...bad word to say
| about my experiences. They have almost always exceeded
| expectations, and to reiterate what you already said,
| their instructions and support are outstanding. Hence my
| "go to Crutchfield's site...".
| outside1234 wrote:
| So I guess I'm going to get a Ford then
| dopeboy wrote:
| CarPlay is a borderline need-to-have for me if I were to buy a
| car. Hope Google's version is just as good...
| Tagbert wrote:
| As a current GM Volt owner who had been considering the upcoming
| Blazer and Equinox this is very frustrating and basically rules
| out GM vehicles.
|
| I use CarPlay daily and it is my preferred way to personalize the
| car. Yes, I do use Maps in CarPlay because that is where my
| Contacts are and that is where I am searching for businesses and
| use that to find directions. I don't want to switch to another
| system just for directions and traffic notices. I don't care
| about routing to chargers on a daily basis. the only comes into
| play on a rare road trip.
|
| I also use CarPlay for listening to podcasts using OverCast. I
| absolutely don't want to give that up just to make GM happy.
| xnx wrote:
| I'm guessing GM made the calculation that the money they were
| getting from Google to do this was greater than the money they
| would lose in car sales to iPhone owners.
| sircastor wrote:
| I worked in Infotainment for an Automotive OEM for 7 years. There
| were two major concepts behind the resistance to CarPlay and
| Android Auto. The first was branding. Not being able to control
| the experience that the user, especially because it was so
| visible of a component in the cab.
|
| The second was (and this is anecdotal, I was not directly
| involved in the conversations) the way that Apple and especially
| Google were behaving about data. Google wanted all of the data
| off the Infotainment system, and a bunch of the data from the
| car, and they were not willing to share any of that data back
| with us. They wanted it all for themselves.
|
| Over the years, my company moved because it was a customer
| demand. My boss when I was hired said that a person would never
| buy a vehicle because of the infotainment system, but it might
| push them over the edge.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| Yup. I think the thing most people need to see at this point is
| that almost every car maker will follow GM at this. They would
| rather the Google deal where they get a cut of the pie and some
| control rather than the nothing they get with Carplay/AA.
| MBCook wrote:
| So this is an anecdote, but...
|
| Last summer Apple said 78% of new car buyers want CarPlay.
| Not "or Android Auto". CarPlay. (Note: may be US specific,
| don't know)
|
| Someone tried to look it up and ask around. And the basic
| idea is that new cars are more expensive than ever and going
| up. And that means if you're buying a new car (as opposed to
| used) you have more money. And, at least in the US, that
| correlates highly with iPhone ownership.
|
| If that's true, that means that dropping CarPlay (even if you
| kept Android Auto, which GM isn't) you'd be heavily annoying
| _the vast majority of your buyers_. Not 51%, but 78%.
|
| I don't think you can remove CarPlay and succeed at this
| point. Consumer demand is too strong. Now add in Android Auto
| diehards.
| jaywalk wrote:
| "This is an incredibly lame and sucky decision for a number of
| different reasons."
|
| The state of "journalism" in 2023.
| rideontime wrote:
| Did Google pay for this?
| jonahhorowitz wrote:
| GM is probably ignoring that these products exist too. I haven't
| bought one, but I've been tempted to put one in my 2008 Civic.
| I'm sure they'll be even better and cheaper in a couple years.
|
| https://www.ebay.com/itm/204267444756?hash=item2f8f49da14:g:...
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| This is cool! I only wish it hooked into the car speakers.
| jonahhorowitz wrote:
| It does - it connects over AUX or BT.
| kotaKat wrote:
| That's the neat part, they have aux out. ;)
| sli wrote:
| > Buyers of GM EVs with the new systems will get access to Google
| Maps and Google Assistant, a voice command system, at no extra
| cost for eight years, GM said.
|
| The lede is buried as usual.
| stirlo wrote:
| So what's currently free on both CarPlay and Android auto will
| be chargeable after 8 years?
|
| I'm buying another brand that doesn't pull this shit.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| These articles are paraphrasing all over the place. This line
| is about 8 years of free cellular data, not app "Access".
| Point still stands but yeah.
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| Honestly, just give me a 3.5mm analog input and call it a day.
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