[HN Gopher] I wanted a beautiful computer and couldn't find one,...
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I wanted a beautiful computer and couldn't find one, so I made my
own
Author : macnkeegs
Score : 75 points
Date : 2023-03-29 18:46 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.mythic.computer)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.mythic.computer)
| spullara wrote:
| This guy has surely never seen a tricked out gaming machine
| before. Also, his computer is ugly.
| elzbardico wrote:
| Sometimes I think it would have been nice to have been born rich.
| But then I come across something like that and I think: "Meh, the
| risk of becoming someone like this guy would be too high"
| preordained wrote:
| That's cool. Still, I had a difficult time stomaching the
| exposition, though...all this "our harsh cruel capitalist world
| stifled me so I took a journey within..." (and then made some
| neat toys, apparently). It honestly feels very spoiled and self-
| righteous.
| earthscienceman wrote:
| The entire article has that tone, like many of the
| VC/FAANG/techie articles about "focusing on the tangible".
| Every single one reads like someone who re-discovers their own
| humanity through the privilege of being obscenely wealthy. This
| one started out with a visit to the Met by someone who recently
| quit their job....... I'm as sick as capitalism as the next
| human but if you are that wealthy maybe contribute to charity
| or work for a non-profit that helps the poorest among us,
| people who can't wander the Met for inspiration on their non-
| existent frivilous, to escape _their_ harsh capitalist reality.
|
| If you think the problem with America isn't a class problem and
| you have FAANG-money, you need to rethink it.
|
| All that said, it is a neat-ish project if not my aesthetic.
| nateabele wrote:
| > _I should know -- it 's been my livelihood since I graduated
| from college in late 2019._
|
| Yeah... no comment.
| onychomys wrote:
| I kind of gave him somewhat of a pass on the insufferability
| just because he's so young. I'm sure that I was at least a
| little like that when I was 24 too.
| theodric wrote:
| Finally, someone took the advice to "go out and change the
| world while you still know everything"
| dale_glass wrote:
| All that ornate stuff on the top was made for rich people.
|
| People didn't go to the battlefield with some ridiculously ornate
| sword inlaid with gold and precious gems. That thing belonged to
| some rich nobleman and was an object of luxury. Though I imagine
| it could still cut if it came down to that, but that wasn't the
| main point of it, the point was showing how much money you had.
|
| A sword in general wasn't what you battled with either, it's more
| of a backup weapon. But most people with a sword would have
| something very plain looking.
|
| The average guy went to fight with something a lot more
| utilitarian looking, and simpler. They'd have spear consisting of
| a pointy metal tip on a wooden stick, because that's cheap and
| works great.
| tmtvl wrote:
| Yep, from the ancient Greek Dory-wielding Phalanges to 17th
| Century Pike and Shot, the long pointy stick has a long and
| formidable career as weapon of war.
| bitL wrote:
| Really missing wooden keys to make it complete...
| amflare wrote:
| > Modern software engineering is rotten. I should know -- it's
| been my livelihood since I graduated from college in late 2019.
|
| I'm so sorry that one of the most lucrative entry-level jobs in
| the world didn't live up to your liberal arts hipster standards.
| Did they not have enough free lattes and kombuchas for you to
| drink while you idly wandered the gardens contemplating the
| beauty and spontaneity of a spiderweb? /s
|
| God forbid I become one of those people that judges the next
| generation for growing up in a different environment, but this is
| one of the most entitled articles I've seen in awhile. The
| Computer isn't beautiful enough? Give it another 2100 years and
| perhaps a couple gaudy and ceremonial ones might end up in a
| museum.
|
| This person either came from more money than they deserve, or
| else they have no concept how the real world works. Maybe even
| both. Go spend more than 2 years doing an honest day's work then
| get back to me. I'd have a lot more respect for this sort of
| project when it is born out of an honest labor, not a pretentious
| child's boredom.
| soiler wrote:
| How the hell did this person start their SWE career at the same
| time as me and come to feel they have an authoritative view on
| the state of the industry? Maybe it's because they're a recent
| grad and I'm an older career changer, but I still feel quite
| new to the industry.
| jacobolus wrote:
| You mean: How the hell does a 25-year-old who spent most of
| their life so far in school being taught to write affected
| essays on a tight deadline for points not have an excess of
| perspective, wisdom, and humility?
| sandworm101 wrote:
| A part time job washing floors? Any hobby that puts them in
| contact with the not-highschool reality? Spend a few days
| in the mountains? Meet someone who got into a great school
| despite not getting an A+++ in highschool lit?
| oh_sigh wrote:
| I've been programming for 26 years, employed in the software
| industry for 20 years, been a SWE at multiple FANGs as well
| as a few smaller tech businesses, and I feel probably more
| similar to you than I do to the author regarding our views on
| the state of the industry.
| ergonaught wrote:
| Stopped reading at the very first sentence to come here and
| write this. Thankfully you have done it for me.
| josephg wrote:
| I saw Jiro Dreams of Sushi the other day. For context, Jiro is
| this old dude (80?) who refuses to retire from being a sushi
| chef. He's one of the best sushi chefs in the world. In the
| film, he talks about how he doesn't do it to be the best. Or do
| it for the money. For him, sushi is a craft he does for
| _honor_.
|
| I like that framing. I agree with the sentiment you quoted, and
| I've been programming for over 30 years. I don't think there's
| much honor in most software. We don't honor the user when we
| make software full of ads. We don't honor the computer when our
| software is slow and lazy. And we don't honor our craft when
| our software is buggy.
|
| Yes, this poster is obviously inexperienced. But I respect that
| they spent a bunch of time and energy trying to honor what they
| see as missing - especially when they needed to pick up a new
| craft in the process. I respect the old people who did things
| like that when they were young. Whether they led somewhere or
| not.
|
| We are paid well enough to do projects like this in our spare
| time. You're right - that is a privilege. But I think it would
| be a loss for everyone if they don't follow their impulse to do
| something with that.
| zaphod12 wrote:
| Overall this is a cool project. Not personally my favorite
| aesthetic, but super cool work.
|
| I take issue with his characterization of japanese vs. western
| homes, though. Western homes are typically expected to be
| renovated over and over and last many many decades. Though the
| most modern ones may not last you 100, ask any buyer and they'll
| say they expect it to appreciate in value, be renovated and
| resold to someone else with no clear end date.
|
| Most homes in japan depreciate and are torn down in 20-30 years.
| Buyers want new homes. https://www.archdaily.com/980830/built-to-
| not-last-the-japan...
|
| yeah it doesn't jibe with a lot of folk's expectations...
| yetanotherloss wrote:
| The weak construction of US homes honestly should depreciate
| too, it's a cultural lie that we tell ourselves about how
| something built as cheaply as possible to 1970s codes by
| suburban land developers with asbestos and aluminum wiring is
| somehow appreciating versus the land it is sitting on.
|
| I'd totally have torn down and replaced my house if that was
| something the homebuilding sector optimized for.
| Gigachad wrote:
| I wonder how this trend extends to the cities. You obviously
| can't build a highrise expecting to knock it down 30 years
| later. Do they just accept preowned apartments?
| khazhoux wrote:
| It's japanese fetishism, whereby the Japanese are an
| enlightened and graceful species, compared to the brutish and
| primitive American.
| suprjami wrote:
| Japan likewise has German fetishism.
| imwithstoopid wrote:
| This stereotype is partly due to the efforts of the US
| advertising industry which worked with the military to
| rehabilitate Japan's image after WW2, given that the US
| intended to turn a bitter enemy into an ally.
|
| American ad man transformed the image of a nation-sized race
| cult into a quaint provincial island of passive nobility.
| adrianmonk wrote:
| I have two reactions to that, neither of which I love that
| I'm having:
|
| (1) It's a very interesting idea, and I'm not 100% sure if
| I believe it, but it definitely doesn't sound unbelievable
| either.
|
| (2) Can we do it again with North Korea? Maybe there's a
| path forward after all.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| There's a long history of steampunk computers. Some are awesome,
| and some ... _no so much_ ...
|
| Just google "Steampunk Computer"
| pdntspa wrote:
| I really hate how so many hold this awful 1800s baroque steampunk
| aesthetic as 'beautiful' and then lambast modern design as if it
| isn't.
|
| I _like_ minimalism, particularly the swiss school. The sense of
| peace and zen that comes from witnessing the beauty of a good
| minimalist work is exquisite on an entirely new level that garish
| and tacky ornamentation could never achieve.
|
| Beauty might be in the eye of the beholder, but people should
| really keep to themselves about it. Because this guy's idea of
| 'beauty' is ugly AF to me
| fwlr wrote:
| I like the motivating spirit here, although I think the execution
| lacks in a few ways. If he builds another ten of these over the
| next thirty years it will be good. One suggestion he might enjoy
| is heavy physical switches / manual mechanical reconfiguration to
| switch apps. A big chunky dial that solidly clicks as you rotate
| it to point to different basic programs like text editing, the
| terminal, web browsing, photo or video editing... my mouth is
| watering already.
|
| Something I disagree with entirely on an aesthetic level is the
| use of wood in this project. I do appreciate that humans have
| evolved to appreciate interacting with wood, but (perhaps because
| of my background in metalworking shops) I think humans are also
| capable of instinctively appreciating the nobility of metal.
|
| One of the main reasons I buy Apple laptops is they're made from
| metal and glass. I'm also a fan of typewriters with metal, glass,
| or ceramic keycaps. If Apple made a laptop with non-plastic
| keycaps that would be my ideal machine. Even better if they would
| use steel instead of aluminum - they did this with the Pro series
| of the iPhone 14 and I appreciate it almost daily. A lot of my
| Apple loyalty actually comes from the fact that they seem to
| respect metal as a material in their design process much more
| than other companies.
|
| My ideal desktop machine would probably be made from the exact
| same materials as a lathe or milling machine, even down to the
| absurdly thick enamel or epoxy paint in Machine Green.
| waldothedog wrote:
| Good on ppl for pursuing what makes them happy, but egad, the
| psuedo-intellectual trad vibes were overwhelming.
| sitzkrieg wrote:
| it makes me miss ngate
| automatoney wrote:
| Is there any info on what happened to them? Their twitter
| last said "Rumors of my death are almost as exaggerated as my
| writing style. Sorry for the delay; I'm catching up." a
| little bit after their last post. I would definitely throw a
| few bucks a month their way for some infrequent posts.
| rfwhyte wrote:
| Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I applaud your effort to
| create something unique that you enjoy, but personally I think
| that computer is arguably the ugliest I've ever seen, and I used
| an emachine in the 90s...
| sacnoradhq wrote:
| "Oh lord, another hipster. Hurray for their 4 years of instant
| mastery." is what I think. Meanwhile, some of us have been doing
| it for 10, 20, and 40+ years.
|
| The design is problematic in that it promotes terrible posture.
| The screen angle is odd and doesn't appear to align with a user's
| field of vision. And it looks like a kit car that just isn't
| designed beautifully like a Fiero-Lambo.
|
| A "beautiful" computer could also be one that is invisible:
|
| - Laser projection keyboard
|
| - Motion tracking a-la Kinect
|
| - VR a-la Oculus Pro
|
| - Projector using a wall as a screen surface
|
| There are many ways to challenge design. I don't see how this
| pushes the envelope of form and function to be noteworthy for
| design.
| m0llusk wrote:
| Interesting, but tastes absolutely vary. IMO the VT220 was the
| pinnacle of workstation design. Might be interesting to see
| something like that but made of wood and with a flat screen.
| khochesh_kushat wrote:
| This is surely a parody or satire, no? The writing is just too
| spot on to be real.
| UberFly wrote:
| Beauty in the eye of the beholder only it seems.
| jensgk wrote:
| Great project, but there are many nice and creative pc design
| proposals, eg. http://slipperyskip.com/page23.html and
| https://uri.cat/projects/modern-retro-terminal/
| bgoldste wrote:
| These are great resources, thanks for sharing!
| cinntaile wrote:
| Are Japanese tools really that much better than western ones?
| What brands are you comparing here? Just to be sure it's an
| apples to apples comparison.
| sacnoradhq wrote:
| It depends.
|
| I opt for Japanese back kerf saws and micrometers.
|
| Some people prefer kanna (pulling planes).
| fwlr wrote:
| Good Western tools are the equal of Japanese tools. The
| perception in the West that Japanese tools are better stems
| mostly from _cheap_ Western tools (which are bad) being widely
| available and imitating the appearance and function of good
| Western tools, while only the expensive (and thus good)
| Japanese tools are available. There is probably some cultural
| aspect that causes Japan to make fewer cheap tools as well
| which helps with this impression. Finally, another factor is
| the overbroad umbrella of "Western"; if you compare countries I
| would put Germany head to head with Japan for quality tools,
| but there are specific fields where Swiss or French tools are
| the best, and even some specialties where British or American
| tools excel.
|
| One other factor in the impression that Japanese tools are
| unusually good comes from the Japanese focus on excelling in
| woodworking tools. Woodworking is particularly easy to get into
| and pursue as a hobby, and hobbyists have the time and
| motivation to discuss their opinions of tools on the internet
| more often than other tool-users.
| [deleted]
| m0llusk wrote:
| Japanese carpentry tends to demand extremely precise cuts and
| so the tools are designed for that and revered for that unusual
| capability.
| sacnoradhq wrote:
| My grandfather had (I inherited it) a Japanese back kerf saw
| he used for trim molding and anywhere that needed a precision
| cut. I keep meaning to get a replacement blade, but it costs
| almost as much as a new one with a handle.
| Bud wrote:
| [dead]
| gizajob wrote:
| I feel like he didn't succeed.
| et-al wrote:
| The white plastic keys really clash with the darker wood.
|
| If one's going in the direction of ostentatiousness, I feel like
| it needs some ivory inlays to break up the monotony.
| reiichiroh wrote:
| That thing's ugly.
| waboremo wrote:
| I wouldn't go that far, but the keyboard being such a core
| aspect of it but looking like a regular modern keyboard thrown
| in does kill a lot of the appeal.
| ummonk wrote:
| Yeah it was weird to see since I've seen so many beautiful
| wooden keycaps on mechanical keyboards.
| CharlesW wrote:
| I love this, even though it's not to my personal taste. For
| whatever reason, it invokes a similar feeling to seeing a
| Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh1 for the first time.
|
| 1
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twentieth_Anniversary_Macintos...
| reiichiroh wrote:
| Wood and wood grain are mawkish.
| [deleted]
| pootpucker wrote:
| [dead]
| addisonl wrote:
| Well, as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder... That
| thing is an assault on my eyes personally.
|
| Also, looks like a great way to speed up your acquisition of
| carpal tunnel with how high up that keyboard is off the desk.
| locopati wrote:
| "I should know -- it's been my livelihood since I graduated from
| college in late 2019."
|
| hah
|
| hahahahahahahah
|
| okay old timer
| automatoney wrote:
| Yeah I'll be honest the work is nice but the author comes off as
| extremely insufferable. The writing gives off the impression that
| the author wants us to see him as this highly educated
| renaissance man, but it feels like that impression is being
| forced. Which is unfortunate because I seem to have quite a bit
| in common with him. Gentle reminder to myself to try and NOT talk
| like this.
|
| I feel this would also be suited by connecting the topic to
| trends in minimalism and maximalism. Also maybe a better
| comparison to the guns and swords (which were essentially
| accessories) would be to smartphones and the cases people use -
| it's a more similar comparison, although not relevant to the
| "building a computer" part.
| automatoney wrote:
| Adding new detailed thoughts in a reply:
|
| The article leans _heavily_ on traditionalist phrasings - "no
| one was lifting the most centrally important functional objects
| in our lives into the domain of beauty. The practice of these
| long-gone artisans had disappeared." And then tracing some
| etymology back to PIE and referring to that etymology as
| imparting "thousands of years of wisdom from the most
| successful cultures in history." onto a phrase is a statement
| that couldn't possibly be more Euro-centric (and linguistically
| ill-informed - almost every word has thousands of years of
| history).
|
| "The process of 'men of strength, skill, and virtue using their
| hands to enforce their will on materials' should not be
| forgotten." feels really gross in a modern context - it's not
| too far off from complaining about "what happened to _real_
| men. " as if the past was some glorious golden age (and has
| kind of imperialist vibes - why must men "enforce" their will
| on materials? What structure does "enforce" imply that "work
| with" does not?)
|
| And then ending with a quote from The Aeneid is just... I don't
| know what the word is, pretentious? I'm a massive classics fan,
| and I've read/translated portions of the Aeneid (for school,
| _not_ fun), but it seems like that work was only chosen because
| it 's famous and old - not because this has anything to do with
| that myth.
| SoftAnnaLee wrote:
| There are two phrases I hate to use. Due to their overuse to
| the point of becoming meaningless.
|
| The first is pretentious. Which the OP massively is, they
| seek to impose the impression that they're a learned and
| intelligent person. By appeal to classics, high art, and
| digressions of philosophy and ideological viewpoints. Which I
| can believe has place in a postmortem of a project like this;
| as it seems an incredibly personal project that is created in
| order to explore an ideological viewpoint. Therefore
| explaining the "why" and "how" of the project is necessary
| for fully appreciating the intention.
|
| I will not use the secondary phrase, as it tends to distract
| conversations and lead to people interpreting it as an
| attack. So instead I'll talk about what I mean directly; and
| that the appeal to tradition and implication that modern
| society is a "decayed and degenerate" form of past "western"
| society leads to a rather unfortunate ideology.
|
| It seems to advocate that modernity is a decayed version of a
| past civilization. And the obvious end point of this form of
| thought is in order to reverse this decay society must return
| to a "golden age. Which the author seems to imply is 18th and
| 19th Century Western Europe, due to the artifacts and
| architecture that is upheld; as well as the fascination with
| historical Japan (which was common in late 19th century
| Europe). And likewise, there is an implication of
| Ubermenschian "imposing one's will on society" with that
| quote you placed in the middle paragraph. That the author
| places their device in opposition to all of modernity, and
| therefore superior due to it drawing from undiluted history
| rather than the decay of modern society. Likewise, the
| digression of going on Instagram, "despite my higher self
| choosing the latter," seems to imply an internal disgust of
| not being "strong enough" to overcome their weak will.
| Ultimately, placing themselves and their computer as a
| mythological hero against a degenerate world.
|
| This viewpoint I find personally gross and distasteful. And
| instead a kind of intellectual and emotional honest
| perspective would have been much more interesting and easier
| to digest. One that proposes this project as an experiment to
| draw from the Arts and Craft movement, and craftsmanship
| computing as a tool for personal fulfillment. Being honest
| about the drawbacks and the difficulties of such a device;
| and presenting lessons that one can apply to their own
| projects. Encouraging others to reflect on craftsmanship as a
| viewpoint, and thinking how to apply it in unexpected places
| (like computing).
| yamtaddle wrote:
| This writing ain't great, but I've sure read far worse fake-
| smart trying-too-hard pieces. Usually, those sorts come off
| like they've got no real promise as writers--this, I dunno, it
| seems like the writer's fairly young, maybe five or ten years
| of refinement of discernment, taste, self-awareness, and
| audience empathy, and hell, they might be pretty good. The
| prose definitely doesn't stand up under the weight of all that
| pretension, but I'll be damned if doesn't, at times, _almost_
| make it. There are some promising elements on display.
|
| Meanwhile, god _damn_ , I wish HN would get half this riled up
| when much nastier things come across the site than some trust
| fund kid writing about their woodworking project. I mean, wow,
| this is a _mean_ discussion, and I get the criticism of the
| piece, and even agree with much of it, but yikes.
|
| [EDIT] That last bit, incidentally, is _not_ a jab at you,
| automatoney.
| [deleted]
| etrautmann wrote:
| yep - it's a bit hard to get past the writing in places: "It
| proffers an alternate computational reality." Sure?
|
| I appreciate anyone experimenting with cool aesthetics, but
| this description ignores the enormous numbers of people
| building case mods, including many out of wood or
| unconventional materials.
| khochesh_kushat wrote:
| It's sort of in the style of what you might find in a luxury
| catalog, when someone is about to try to sell you something
| at 60000% markup, but ladled on with a power sprayer.
| geocrasher wrote:
| The very thing he built would not be able to exist without the
| ubiquity of the very "ugly" computers that he eschews. Computers
| became affordable because they were mass produced as cheaply as
| possible, with less and less regard to aesthetics.
|
| Let's not also forget that various companies have tried to make
| computers beautiful, or at least less ugly. Who can forget the
| swoopy-curvy-nearly-art-deco computer cases of the early 2000's?
| The iMac G3, the Compaq Presario's, and the other ones that tried
| to round out the corners of the beige boxes that we were all so
| used to by then?
| detrites wrote:
| This is one of the most badly behaved comment sections I've seen
| on HN.
|
| As at least some seem to exhibit, it is possible to criticise
| creativity without high-school level bullying.
|
| Sometimes people read things like I've seen written here and get
| hit harder than anyone expects. If you've been close to the worst
| aftermath of such things you might think twice about who's
| reading what you wrote, and its impact.
|
| Personally, what I didn't like about the article was the lack of
| photos of the final product - it looks really interesting, and I
| want to see more of it.
|
| I hope the author, who seems based on username to likely also to
| be the OP, has a thicker skin than those here seeking to bruise
| it seem to think. They've no right to - and them assuming they do
| is the worst kind of entitlement.
| smm11 wrote:
| I stopped at 'since 2019.'
| sacnoradhq wrote:
| Some of us have been coding and building computers since before
| he had a flagellum. Some even used electromechanical
| typewriters.
| emmo wrote:
| Another rich kid that thinks he has the world figured out.
|
| The PC case modding/creating community has been around for
| decades, and has produced much nicer looking aesthetic-focused
| designs than this.
| sacnoradhq wrote:
| As long as they don't sing at the co-op cafe open mic night
| with a gaggle of supportive friends and family who refuse to
| tell them they're tone deaf and off key.
| tiedieconderoga wrote:
| Interesting and certainly unique, it's nice that they focus so
| much on the design process. And isn't that the point of this sort
| of creative project, to craft something unique that you yourself
| consider beautiful?
|
| Personally, I'd like to make myself a Sandbender computer in the
| style of William Gibson's _Idoru_ , but it would probably turn
| out much uglier than the sleek bulbous device which I imagine
| from the description:
|
| >Chia looked down at her sandbenders. Turned off the red switch.
| "Coral," she said. "These are turquoise. The ones that look like
| ivory are the inside of a kind of nut. Renewable."
|
| >"The rest is silver?"
|
| >"Aluminum," Chia said. "They melt old cans they dig up on the
| beach, cast it in sand molds. These panels are micarta. That's
| linen with this resin in it."
|
| Shame that PCBs are so rigid and rectangular, but you could
| probably fit a small SBC into a blob-like shell.
| bunabhucan wrote:
| It's really cool that this 25 year old invented PC case
| modification. Finally no more beige IBM 8086 boxes.
| camwiese wrote:
| Incredible project. It's great to see people valuing craft and
| building physical things.
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