[HN Gopher] Clues to the lives of North America's first inhabita...
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       Clues to the lives of North America's first inhabitants are hidden
       underwater
        
       Author : Brajeshwar
       Score  : 59 points
       Date   : 2023-03-29 16:12 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.smithsonianmag.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.smithsonianmag.com)
        
       | user3939382 wrote:
       | Somewhat related. It's super weird walking around the desert in
       | Palm Springs, over an hour from the ocean/LA, and there are
       | seashells all over the place mixed into the sand. It's very rare
       | that I've experienced something so anachronistic, it made me feel
       | the passage of time on a scale that was very unusually large.
        
         | poulsbohemian wrote:
         | We used to find seashell fossils _in Iowa_ where I went to
         | college just out on the ground surface. Mind blowing stuff for
         | sure.
        
       | daveslash wrote:
       | I was listening to an archaeology professor not long ago. He was
       | challenging the long-standing hypothesis that human migration
       | came across the Bering straight and then moved inland early on,
       | populating the inner North American continent.
       | 
       | He postulated that the migration initially moved down along the
       | West Coast quite a ways before moving inland. He suggested that
       | we initially thought inland because that's where we find so many
       | artifacts. But we forget that the coastline of the time period
       | may have been as much as 400ft lower than today, thus so much of
       | the archaeological artifacts are either lost or unknown to us
       | today. Because we only have access to what was _not_ submerged
       | below sea level rise, we have an incomplete (and, apparently
       | misguided) impression of what really happened.
       | 
       | Some of the oldest human remains ( _possibly the oldest_ ) in
       | North America are actually on Santa Rosa Island, one of the
       | Channel Islands off Santa Barbara, California. [0]
       | 
       | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlington_Springs_Man
        
         | ravenstine wrote:
         | The Chumash people, who lived both on the mainland and on Santa
         | Rosa island, had a myth, if I remember correctly, that their
         | people had come from somewhere else across a rainbow bridge. Of
         | course I don't believe that there was a literal rainbow bridge,
         | but I interpret it as a cultural subconsciousness of having
         | originally come across the ocean. Their seafaring practices and
         | boat construction were actually fairly advanced in contrast to
         | other tribes on the west coast. If the Polynesians traveled as
         | far through the Pacific as they did, it doesn't seem farfetched
         | that humans could have reached the Americas without crossing
         | the Bearing Strait. Just my hypothesis.
        
           | AlotOfReading wrote:
           | The chumash are genetically very close to other American
           | Indian peoples, who are collectively related to historic
           | groups that populated Northeast Asia. Both land and sea
           | voyages from Asia to the Americas are reasonable mainstream
           | hypotheses given current evidence, but they're both commonly
           | called "crossing the Bering strait".
           | 
           | A transpacific voyage from somewhere like southeast Asia may
           | have been theoretically possible, but there's no actual
           | evidence that the first settlers of the Americas came that
           | way and quite a lot of evidence that they didn't.
        
         | jcranmer wrote:
         | That's not exactly avant-garde; the coastal migration
         | hypothesis has been the dominant hypothesis among
         | anthropologists since the early 90s.
        
         | sampo wrote:
         | > Some of the oldest human remains ( _possibly the oldest_ ) in
         | North America are actually on Santa Rosa Island
         | 
         | There are several sites indicating human presence in North
         | America 20 000 - 30 000 years ago, inferred from campsites and
         | broken animal bones. And in one case, human footprints:
         | 
         | https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/fossil-fo...
         | 
         | And then there is this:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerutti_Mastodon_site
         | 
         | But none of these very old sites contain remains of human
         | bones.
        
           | BigCryo wrote:
           | And don't forget whatever hominin was responsible for the
           | cerrutti Mastodon site near San Diego... Almost certainly
           | this hominin live near the coast and the evidence of it is
           | almost all gone now
        
             | AlotOfReading wrote:
             | It's incredibly unlikely that any hominins were responsible
             | for Cerutti. McNabb [1] wrote a good article looking at
             | what hominins could plausibly have created the site given
             | what's known from elsewhere and the evidence that's been
             | presented. The short answer is that there weren't any
             | plausible candidates and most of the technologies necessary
             | wouldn't be invented until modern humans did so long after
             | the site is dated. The academic consensus on the original
             | paper is is that it presented a genuinely ambiguous site
             | where the authors simply overstated the strength of their
             | argument because they were unfamiliar with modern
             | analytical methodologies at the time.
             | 
             | [1] https://doi.org/10.15184/aqy.2019.52
        
             | Baeocystin wrote:
             | The shell midden I'm linking to is much, much more recent,
             | but I do wonder if something like a buried-in-sediment
             | offshore midden of similar type is the sort of evidence
             | that would could theoretically find (relatively) easily if
             | we started looking at submerged historic coastline in
             | earnest.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaleback_Shell_Midden
        
         | JoeAltmaier wrote:
         | I was convinced of that, when that guy(?) went down the west
         | coast in a kayak one summer, starting in alaska and ending in
         | Baja California. If he could do it, then early Americans could
         | do it.
         | 
         | And the next summer, after finding an entire uninhabited
         | paradise with plentiful game and oysters and beautiful rivers,
         | bring the spouse and start a family.
         | 
         | Who wouldn't?
        
           | s1artibartfast wrote:
           | I wasn't aware this was even controversial. The question
           | highlights how one can choose to answer on the basis of data
           | or on the basis of reasoning.
           | 
           | In this and many other areas it seems that people place a
           | priority on data driven answers opposed to logic driven ones.
           | Part of the challenge has to do with scientific publishing.
           | These days database results are much more likely to be
           | published then well thought out but entirely conceptual
           | results
        
         | causality0 wrote:
         | For a good few years people who were personally offended at the
         | idea the Clovis culture wasn't North America's first
         | inhabitants wielded a great deal of power in the scientific
         | community. Thankfully that's basically over.
        
           | sammalloy wrote:
           | This is the answer, IMO, and we are still dealing with the
           | last of their generation for the next ten years or so.
        
         | lacrosse_tannin wrote:
         | https://www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/nebraska/9781496202178/ may
         | or may not interest yall
        
         | genocidicbunny wrote:
         | I find it interesting that as a child, some of the books that I
         | read about human colonization of the Americas distinctly
         | mentioned this, and a few of these books were from the 1960's.
         | So at least some Soviet historians had this idea quite a while
         | ago.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jmyeet wrote:
       | Let me introduce you to the Laurentide ice sheet [1]. It was
       | similar to the ice sheets that now cover Greenland and Antarctica
       | and was up to 2 miles thick in places, extending far south into
       | what is now the US.
       | 
       | After being around for ~2.5 million years it melted about 20,000
       | years ago. Prior to then sea levels were ~130 meters lower than
       | they are now. Think about that. There was still various land
       | bridges that allowed migration. We see direct evidence of this.
       | It's why, for example, we find archaeological sites under the
       | English Channel (eg [2]).
       | 
       | So our ancestors like migrated along and settled on coasts and
       | rivers. Obviously we have a lot of evidence along rivers because
       | they weren't inundanted by 130m of water but the coasts were. So
       | that means a lot of that evidence was simply erased. We always
       | have to take that gap into account (eg an inland people from
       | Siberia migrating to North America will have had all of its
       | coastal history erased so the first we'll see of them is when
       | they advanced to the point of settling inland).
       | 
       | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurentide_Ice_Sheet
       | 
       | [2]: https://www.livescience.com/1759-stone-age-settlement-
       | englis...
        
         | undersuit wrote:
         | I just played around with https://www.floodmap.net/ and it's
         | pretty crazy what -130 meters looks like. Argentina and China
         | have massive coastal growth and the Sea of Japan becomes
         | landlocked. How much history is 100 miles off China's modern
         | day coast line?
        
         | splitstud wrote:
         | [dead]
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | > Dated to at least 12,200 years ago, it's the earliest
       | documented site of human activity in the southeastern U.S.
       | 
       | Kinda weird referring to these people in the southeast as being
       | America's first inhabitants when there were already people living
       | on the continent for thousands of years before that. I suspect
       | that people may forget that there was not one single wave of
       | migration by one single group of people who remained a coherent
       | group for two hundred centuries or so.
       | 
       | cf. https://www.pnas.org/post/podcast/peopling-americas
        
       | peteradio wrote:
       | Why is human history so interesting?
        
         | sacnoradhq wrote:
         | A non-rhetorical A to a rhetorical Q: Narcissistic
         | anthropocentrism.
        
         | ch4s3 wrote:
         | Because it's about us, which in an of itself is going to be
         | reason enough for some people.
        
       | hprotagonist wrote:
       | Europe, too.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland
        
       | sacnoradhq wrote:
       | It's impossible to rule out all possibility of one-of human semi-
       | circumnavigation in pre-history, either through boatmaking or
       | unique natural circumstances. H. sapiens neanderthalensis may
       | have even beat us h. sapiens sapiens to water transportation.
       | 
       | Mass migration, OTOH, needs motivating factors such as curiosity,
       | opportunity, or existential threat, and is more difficult to
       | navigate the young, old, infirm, and the naive through dangerous
       | travels.
        
       | mabbo wrote:
       | Also relevant: Beringia[0]. The huge area of land between Russia
       | and Alaska that has since been covered in water. When people talk
       | about a land bridge between the two, it's not like it was a small
       | narrow bit above the waves that you quickly crossed. It was the
       | size of a country!
       | 
       | > Commencing from c. 57,000 YBP, steppe-tundra vegetation
       | dominated large parts of Beringia with a rich diversity of
       | grasses and herbs. There were patches of shrub tundra with
       | isolated refugia of larch and spruce forests with birch and alder
       | trees. It has been proposed that the largest and most diverse
       | megafaunal community residing in Beringia at this time could only
       | have been sustained in a highly diverse and productive
       | environment.
       | 
       | There are archeological treasures down below those waters that
       | could tell us so much about the history of the first peoples to
       | come to North America.
       | 
       | [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beringia
        
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       (page generated 2023-03-29 23:01 UTC)