[HN Gopher] Carrier pigeons used by police in the Indian state o...
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       Carrier pigeons used by police in the Indian state of Odisha
        
       Author : pseudolus
       Score  : 57 points
       Date   : 2023-03-28 12:18 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | unixgoddess wrote:
       | headline made me lol, isn't indian police famous for harassing
       | and beating people up?
        
         | throw93 wrote:
         | Not that different from American police. They also work with
         | less toys and much less salaries than American police.
        
           | unixgoddess wrote:
           | I would have reacted the same if it were American police.
        
         | zapdrive wrote:
         | I know are trolling, but I'll bite. India is very very
         | different from all Western countries with it's own unique
         | problems and requires unique solutions. If police were to
         | prosecute every small criminal, the already overloaded justice
         | system would come to a grinding halt. A lot of wanna be
         | criminals stay straight fearing the police cane.
         | 
         | I'm sure a lot of poor Americans languishing in jails because
         | they couldn't afford a good lawyer and just accepted the plea
         | deal offered to them would rather have had a couple slaps and a
         | cane to the calves.
         | 
         | Edit: also don't forget the police is doing what the general
         | public wants. A lot of victims would rather see the perpetrator
         | get beat up by police swiftly rather than wait 10 years to see
         | them get sent to jail.
        
           | unixgoddess wrote:
           | thanks for replying, it's an interesting POV. However, I was
           | thinking about for example that case a couple of years ago:
           | female workers for an Apple (?) factory kept in bestial
           | conditions who went out in the streets to protest and were
           | beaten by police, and their parents got admonished for
           | raising them badly, with badly meaning unwilling to keep
           | their head low and eat shit.
           | 
           | Also, the apparently many cases of women who go denounce a
           | rape and police rape them themselves.
           | 
           | Is it really the general public that wants the police, or
           | just the wealthy elites? because I suspect that the masses
           | would rather be free to protect themselves on their own...
        
       | iamerroragent wrote:
       | Latency might be a tad bit high but with a 2TB SD card Pigeon
       | internet has great bandwidth.
        
         | textread wrote:
         | Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of
         | tapes hurtling down the highway.
         | 
         | ~ Andrew S. Tanenbaum
        
           | iamerroragent wrote:
           | Love Tanenbaum.
           | 
           | One of the first computer scientist I remember learning about
           | a decade or more ago when I started getting into FOSS and
           | learning how these great tools work! Thanks for bringing
           | those memories back.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | One SD card seems to weight about 2G. Considering the pigeon
         | could carry 30-50G (depending on source), it seems they could
         | carry about 15TB - 25TB in one go, flying up to ~100km/hour.
         | Not sure how that would compare to a fiber-optic connection
         | though. But for short distances it must surely have a higher
         | bandwidth.
        
           | iamerroragent wrote:
           | Now is it a European pigeon or an African pigeon?
           | 
           | Kidding aside, I really appreciate that you got an accurate
           | estimate on how much data a pigeon could potentially deliver
           | today.
        
         | mschuster91 wrote:
         | And it's highly censorship resistant - birds are ubiquitous.
        
           | kenferry wrote:
           | Ahem.
           | 
           | https://birdsarentreal.com/
        
           | walrus01 wrote:
           | In this case censorship might be a 12 gauge shotgun with #8
           | birdshot shells
        
             | trompetenaccoun wrote:
             | Jokes aside though this form of communication would be very
             | difficult to disrupt or intercept even in times of crisis.
        
             | mschuster91 wrote:
             | Sure, but you'd need to identify the bird as a messenger
             | bird in the first place, which is made harder by the fact
             | that pigeons live pretty much everywhere.
        
               | capableweb wrote:
               | > Sure, but you'd need to identify the bird as a
               | messenger bird in the first place
               | 
               | Why? Dragnet censorship doesn't care about collateral
               | damage, assume all traffic is potentially "dangerous" and
               | shoot every bird at sight. Or just capture them and
               | release if confirmed free of harmful information.
        
         | ale42 wrote:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneakernet
        
       | Jeff_Brown wrote:
       | I'm surprised this isn't considered a bargain.
       | 
       | > The state government spends PS4,900 a year for the upkeep of
       | the pigeons and salaries of the staff ... The police handler, who
       | does not want to be named, says: "Many government officials view
       | the 'pigeongram' as a waste of resources.
        
       | anoncow wrote:
       | On a related note, passenger pigeons went extinct in the 20th
       | century.
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_pigeon
        
       | DoreenMichele wrote:
       | _launched in 1946. The area had no wireless or telephone links,
       | so the state was given 200 Belgian homing pigeons_ and proved to
       | be the only reliable means of communication during natural
       | disasters in 1982 and 1999. Makes me wonder what more we could do
       | to make sure vulnerable areas like this have reliable, essential,
       | disaster-proof remedies that fit their needs /circumstances.
        
         | zapdrive wrote:
         | Starlink dish with a solar panel?
        
           | dmurray wrote:
           | The pigeon service costs $5k/ year for 155 pigeons and 3
           | staff, and is under threat because it's too expensive. A
           | multisite Starlink installation won't beat that by much.
        
             | zapdrive wrote:
             | Average salary for government employees in India is around
             | $1k/month. Just the 3 staff is around 36k/year, so I take
             | that $5k/year number with a huge grain of salt.
        
           | DoreenMichele wrote:
           | Well, I'm thinking more broadly than just communications.
           | 
           | Alaska has six times as many pilots per capita as other parts
           | of the US because there are relatively few roads up there.
           | 
           | Some African country addressed one of its issues by created a
           | service for drone delivery of blood for medical emergencies.
           | IIRC, it was both cheaper and more reliable than trying to
           | keep blood on hand in rural areas because blood expires and
           | you need the right blood type.
           | 
           | There was a piece on HN yesterday about the labor and
           | delivery department in a hospital in a town of 9000 people
           | shutting down. Although small, it's a commercial hub for the
           | region because the region is so rural.
           | 
           | I found that the area has a midwife service. Perhaps that's a
           | superior service for that situation. I don't know, but do we
           | really need to medicalize the birthing process in all cases?
           | Seems to me that's not absolutely necessary.
           | 
           | But we seem to generally default to thinking that "big city
           | solutions are best" and when those solutions are a poor fit
           | logistically for some more sparsely populated area or simply
           | financially unsustainable, the default seems to be that
           | service is simply removed entirely rather than replaced with
           | something more suitable.
           | 
           | We also routinely build housing in disaster-prone areas that
           | doesn't withstand the type of disaster in question and then
           | put people in trailers when they inevitably end up homeless.
           | Seems to me we could do better.
        
       | akamhy wrote:
       | Clickbait title, these birds are now pretty much obsolete. They
       | infact themselves mention it it the article.
        
         | giraffe_lady wrote:
         | most propaganda ass title re: role of police as well
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Maybe so, but could you please stop posting unsubstantive
           | comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it
           | repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what
           | it is for.
           | 
           | If you wouldn't mind reviewing
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking
           | the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be
           | grateful.
           | 
           | (We've changed the title to be more neutral now btw)
        
             | giraffe_lady wrote:
             | It was substantial enough for you to take action related to
             | it in the title but not substantial enough for me to post?
        
               | dang wrote:
               | I changed the title because it was linkbait, in keeping
               | with the site guidelines.
               | 
               | I'm asking you to stop posting flamebait, in keeping with
               | the site guidelines.
               | 
               | I don't think this is hard to understand, if you've read
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html?
        
               | giraffe_lady wrote:
               | I think I'm too autistic to understand the rule as
               | written but I will try dan.
        
               | dang wrote:
               | Thank you!
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | The article is about the value the birds provide, and that they
         | are getting used less and less, not that they are 100% obsolete
         | and never used.
         | 
         | Seems like at least in 1999 they served a vital function that
         | probably helped save bunch of people.
         | 
         | > the police pigeons of Odisha also proved to be the only
         | dependable method of communication during devastating floods in
         | 1982 and a 1999 super-cyclone that caused widespread
         | destruction in the coastal state. Indeed, the handlers say
         | pigeon post helped save many lives.
        
           | lazide wrote:
           | So 'people who depend on the perception that an obsolete tech
           | isn't obsolete say tech is not obsolete'?
        
       | Jeff_Brown wrote:
       | I had to wonder how pigeons are trained. Turns out there's a nice
       | wikiHow article about it[1]. Some highlights (copied verbatim):
       | 
       | """ Good food, comfortable lodgings and being treated like
       | royalty is what makes your pigeons want to come back.
       | 
       | Start by taking your pigeons 1 mile from home and releasing them.
       | Do this several times a week.
       | 
       | Expand the training distance by 5 miles per week.
       | 
       | Pigeon clubs all have lost bird reporting processes that you can
       | take advantage of if you lose a bird ... Some pigeons might
       | simply get tired on their return journey and need time to rest.
       | While they may normally come back to the loft in one day, it may
       | take them a few days to return if they've stopped for a break.
       | 
       | Create a second "home" for your pigeons. """
       | 
       | [1] https://www.wikihow.com/Train-a-Homing-
       | Pigeon#:~:text=To%20f....
        
         | gus_massa wrote:
         | Somewhat related: " _Inside the Quirky World of Competitive
         | Pigeon Seduction_ "
         | https://www.nationalgeographic.com/photography/article/doo-p...
         | HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21954982 (2
         | points | Jan 4, 2020 | 0 comments)
         | 
         | (I remember a similar article posted here with more discussion,
         | but I can't find it.)
        
         | chongli wrote:
         | Also keep in mind that large birds of prey regularly take
         | pigeons. Inexperienced domestic pigeons will be especially
         | vulnerable as they don't have the same developed wariness as
         | their wild counterparts.
        
       | navigate8310 wrote:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers
        
       | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2023-03-29 23:01 UTC)