[HN Gopher] Windows 11 KB5023778 update adds promotions to the S...
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       Windows 11 KB5023778 update adds promotions to the Start menu
        
       Author : nazgulsenpai
       Score  : 82 points
       Date   : 2023-03-28 19:00 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bleepingcomputer.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bleepingcomputer.com)
        
       | eugenekolo wrote:
       | I feel like I'm on crazy pills when I complain about these things
       | and all the other intrusions Windows pops up at me every time I
       | use the operating system... Yet, the people who use it (mostly
       | gamers), seem to think it's all fine and the operating system is
       | great.
        
         | artursapek wrote:
         | most people just accepts ads as a part of life
        
         | klodolph wrote:
         | If you're a gamer, how do you interact with the computer?
         | 
         | You launch Steam, see a bunch of ads, launch Epic Game Store or
         | GOG Galaxy and see a bunch of ads, so why wouldn't you see ads
         | in the start menu?
         | 
         | Hell, you have to log in to an account for the "GeForce
         | Experience". Just to keep your graphics card drivers
         | automatically updated.
         | 
         | As soon as you're in a game, the game is full-screen. You're
         | not switching apps, you're not creating anything, you're just
         | consuming content, and ads are a part of how we consume content
         | these days.
        
           | troymc wrote:
           | It would be nice if there was a univesal ad blocker that
           | worked _everywhere_...
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | > ads are a part of how we consume content these days.
           | 
           | They aren't a part of how I do it.
        
           | RajT88 wrote:
           | > Just to keep your graphics card drivers automatically
           | updated.
           | 
           | Auto-updaters are a bane unto themselves of annoying crap
           | running in the background.
           | 
           | As are "quicklaunch" agents, or anything which claims to be
           | some sort of "agent" to improve the user experience of their
           | software.
           | 
           | Most of it delivers very little value, and who knows what the
           | hell data it is hoovering up.
        
           | Minor49er wrote:
           | You're right. Everyone keeps whining "privacy and usability"
           | this and "I already paid for the OS" that. To them, I say:
           | shut up! Don't these people know that computers are only
           | about consuming content? We should be advocating for an even
           | greater ad-filled future for everyone to enjoy
           | 
           | Why aren't we seeing ads in context menus? Why can't I yell
           | "Burger King" into my mic every 10 minutes while streaming to
           | get access to higher bitrates? Why hasn't Microsoft put ads
           | on the BSOD? Why am I not paying a microtransaction every
           | time I start up my computer to get it to skip an ad and boot
           | faster? We are still missing out on some serious advertising
           | potential! Every eyeball that isn't looking at a corporate
           | logo is selfishly wasting time
        
           | Anarch157a wrote:
           | Steam, EGS and GOG are stores. Ads are expected in stores.
           | The OS that runs my computer is not.
           | 
           | I would expect ads on Windows when I open the built-in app
           | store, but not on the Start Menu.
        
           | nightski wrote:
           | Personally I never see these ads on Windows even though I
           | think they sound terrible. I must just have the right group
           | policy settings or something.
        
           | kderbe wrote:
           | > you have to log in to an account for the "GeForce
           | Experience". Just to keep your graphics card drivers
           | automatically updated.
           | 
           | TechPowerUp's NVCleanstall makes it easy to automatically
           | update Nvidia drivers without any login, and also to remove
           | any Nvidia application bloat you don't want. (I exclude GFE
           | and only install the control panel, for example.)
        
         | jmuguy wrote:
         | I only use Windows for games, and I don't think its fine, which
         | is why I only use it for games. And its like another commenter
         | said - you also have to deal with Nvidia's trash application,
         | all the game stores, Discord (which I swear has more bullshit
         | popups pushing whatever monetization every time it updates). I
         | just try to ignore all that crap as much as possible. Any time
         | I'm forced to do something more than cut over to the PC on my
         | KVM and launch the game I want to play, I cringe.
        
         | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
         | I use Windows and largely my computer usage these days is
         | gaming and some related activities, and things are most
         | definitely not fine and I don't know of anyone else who thinks
         | they are.
         | 
         | What they are, is basically all we have. Thanks mostly to WINE
         | and Valve, Linux gaming is now almost completely tolerable, but
         | it certainly isn't perfect and there are huge gaps in
         | capability (VR, for one). So as much as we hate what Windows
         | has become we are unable to switch to it without making some
         | pretty big sacrifices.
         | 
         | Instead we use LTSC editions, O&O ShutUp 10, and some other
         | third party utilities to mitigate the bullshit.
        
           | kitsunesoba wrote:
           | Lack of VR on Linux is why my custom tower spends most of its
           | powered-on time booted into Windows at this point. I play
           | Beat Saber custom maps for exercise and that's not easy to
           | replace.
        
         | kulahan wrote:
         | I have no real idea what the issue with Windows is. It
         | certainly has drawbacks, but... so does every OS. I hit power,
         | my computer boots up in 10 seconds or so, I launch a game, and
         | I'm ready to go. I think Windows puts ads in the little
         | notification center, but I turned that off ages ago. It seems
         | fine to me.
        
         | neogodless wrote:
         | > Yet, the people who use it (mostly gamers), seem to think
         | it's all fine and the operating system is great.
         | 
         | A lot of assumptions in such a short sentence. I suspect
         | there's more than a complex set of opinions around Windows,
         | Windows 10, Windows 11, using Windows for gaming, thinking it's
         | all fine, thinking lots of things suck, thinking it is a great
         | operating system, thinking it's a shame it does things outside
         | of the ideal scope of an operating system.
         | 
         | Anecdotally, _most of the time_ I don 't see the annoying
         | things on my primary Windows 10 Professional machine. Upon a
         | clean install, there were some nuisances that needed cleaned
         | up. But the vast majority of the time, it is customizable as I
         | desire, while being rock solid / stable, rarely needing reboots
         | to apply updates, and when I go to play games, they just work,
         | and they run super well.
         | 
         | I still hate those nuisances, and I hate that a reboot risks a
         | dark pattern trying to push Windows 11. I hate Windows 11. It
         | currently holds exactly zero advantages (for me) over Windows
         | 10, and lots of disadvantages.
         | 
         | I really like Linux Mint, but I gave it a solid 2 months on my
         | primary gaming machine (which happens to be a laptop) and it
         | fell short in a few key areas. It has a lot of warts, and some
         | games were unstable, performed poorly, or wouldn't connect to
         | multiplayer. I also had no control over the brightness of my
         | screen while using my discrete GPU. For the purposes of gaming,
         | Windows 10 is vastly superior for the set of games I play. And
         | it's a shame, because I do really like the Linux Mint
         | experience for most things, including _most games_ , but the
         | issues are more problematic than the _ongoing_ issues that I
         | have with Windows 10.
        
           | nightski wrote:
           | Actually I am very frustrated by the advantages it does have,
           | because I want to stay on 10 badly. But there are two nice
           | ones -
           | 
           | - WiFi 6(e) 6Ghz band support is only in Win 11
           | 
           | - Direct GPU access from WSL2 for things like CUDA/ML
           | programming is Win 11 only
        
             | neogodless wrote:
             | Sorry - I meant to say "advantages _for me_ " specifically!
        
         | yamtaddle wrote:
         | > Yet, the people who use it (mostly gamers), seem to think
         | it's all fine and the operating system is great.
         | 
         | I hate Windows these days, but the specific AMD video card in
         | my gaming desktop has buggy drivers in Linux and reliably
         | crashes the whole machine about once every four hours (or, much
         | faster if I actually play a game on it--that's if I'm just web
         | browsing and hanging out in terminals and such) versus my
         | having had zero OS-level crashes on the same hardware over
         | almost three years under Windows 10. So... Windows it is.
         | 
         | IDK, the driver may be fixed now, but the bug had been
         | outstanding for 18+ months when I encountered it, so, I
         | wouldn't bet on it. It seemed to have very little traction. And
         | at this point it's really not worth my time to try, since the
         | machine's working OK as-is, aside from Windows being crap.
         | 
         | Since all I do on Windows is game, having to avoid some ads
         | isn't _that_ big a deal. I spend nearly all my time on it in
         | fullscreen programs anyway, hardly interacting with Windows at
         | all.
         | 
         | So it's "great" in that it actually works correctly on my
         | hardware, and ~all my games work just as they should. It's shit
         | in every other way, but if it's effectively just a game
         | launcher, oh well. I do anything important on other operating
         | systems.
        
       | krzrak wrote:
       | That's weird, I have Windows 11 installed by the computer
       | manufacturer but I don't recall having any ads. Is that because I
       | disabled them at the start? (don't remember) or maybe because I
       | have pihole in my network? Anyway - no ads for me.
        
       | Apreche wrote:
       | On the fresh install of Windows I do see some ads and ad-adjacent
       | things. But once I disable all of them, that's it. No more. I
       | haven't seen anything at all like this since install day a couple
       | years back.
       | 
       | My guess is that people aren't going through and disabling
       | everything. Also, people aren't using piholes which are probably
       | blocking everything that can't be disabled.
        
         | ashwagary wrote:
         | >On the fresh install of Windows I do see some ads and ad-
         | adjacent things.
         | 
         | I'm curious, did you pay for the installer or did it come
         | bundled with a device?
        
         | pkulak wrote:
         | Yes, it is the user who is wrong. :D
        
       | IceHegel wrote:
       | The fact that Microsoft is the 2nd largest company in the world
       | and enjoys a _very_ close relationship with the Federal
       | Government makes it even worse. Very cyberpunk, very dystopian.
       | 
       | Overall, this kind of thing makes the species worse off.
        
         | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
         | Its funny how rampant greed does that and yet we've all just
         | kinda decided its the best possible way to run a society.
        
           | dragonwriter wrote:
           | > we've all just kinda decided
           | 
           | "we've all" kind of masks the way those who benefit the most
           | from that decision are disproportionately influential it
           | making it, both initially and on an ongoing basis,
        
             | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
             | Sure, but I mean, spend some time around HN and you'll find
             | plenty of people defending hypercapitalism as obviously the
             | best way for things to be.
             | 
             | Hell, not long ago I had someone challenge me on whether or
             | not exploiting people for profit, in particular in health
             | care, was wrong or not.
        
       | twawaaay wrote:
       | It is death of an operating system. Before our eyes. Microsoft is
       | trying desperately to squeeze a bit more cash out of it but the
       | failing culture within Microsoft is unable to recognise they are
       | driving users off their own product.
       | 
       | I already got fed up enough that I basically banned Windows at
       | home and I am impatiently waiting to kill one last Windows box.
       | It is our gaming machine that is generally available to entire
       | household of 5 (3 adults and two kids). All other machines are
       | either Windows laptops converted to Linux or new Macbooks and it
       | seems we will only have more MacOS now that Apple got a bit more
       | sane with their hardware choices.
       | 
       | I may leave one Windows instance running in Proxmox just in case
       | if somebody needs it.
        
         | twosdai wrote:
         | I've been gaming on pop os for a little while now. It's pretty
         | good honestly. I would give it a shot.
        
         | pianoben wrote:
         | For what it's worth, a _ton_ of people inside of MSFT are
         | opposed to these changes. The few responsible for them are
         | answering to overwhelming pressure from the Finance side.
         | 
         | Every time something like this ships out, guaranteed just about
         | every CVP fields angry/annoyed/exasperated complaints about it.
        
       | capableweb wrote:
       | Great, I just updated to Windows 11 in hope of getting WSL2 +
       | Arch Linux + CUDA + Docker but it didn't pan out in the end, had
       | to move back to proper Linux for that piece of work. But seems
       | I'm stuck with Windows 11 now and additionally, the running
       | applications that show up in the taskbar suddenly can only show
       | icons, no text allowed.
       | 
       | I started to regret my decision to upgrade, and this just adds
       | insult to injury.
        
         | btgeekboy wrote:
         | Didn't applications used to be able to show their titles in the
         | taskbar under W11 if you change the taskbar settings? Did that
         | go away, or am I imagining that ability?
        
       | bakugo wrote:
       | I use 11 Enterprise and don't have to deal with most of these
       | annoyances thankfully, I don't know if I'd be able to tolerate it
       | if I did.
        
       | AshamedCaptain wrote:
       | Every couple of weeks Windows shows a FULL SCREEN advertisement
       | during boot/login which requires several clicks to get rid of.
       | They advertise everything starting from Microsoft Accounts,
       | OneDrive, MS Edge (
       | https://www.windowslatest.com/2020/11/15/windows-10-is-now-n... )
       | , Windows 11 ( https://mspoweruser.com/wp-
       | content/uploads/2022/12/167013949... ) , and a long etc.
       | 
       | This is not a small advert in a small corner of the start menu.
       | These are full-screen adverts that interrupt your use of the
       | computer until you click.
       | 
       | What on Earth could they possibly do now to top that ?
        
         | metalliqaz wrote:
         | Strange, I have never seen those ads. Are they restricted to
         | the Home editions? I use Enterprise.
        
           | grujicd wrote:
           | It's on Professional as well.
        
         | rolph wrote:
         | start making them into onboarding installs is one think off the
         | top of my head.
        
         | otikik wrote:
         | Each one of those ads is a free ad for Apple and Linux. "If you
         | had Apple, you wouldn't have to endure this!"
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | _Each one of those ads is a free ad for Apple and Linux. "If
           | you had Apple, you wouldn't have to endure this!"_
           | 
           | In an ideal world, it would push people toward real life.
           | 
           | "Another ad on my computer? I don't need to Candy Crush that
           | bad. I'll go outside."
        
           | smnrchrds wrote:
           | I wish Apple was actually good in that regard. I ended up
           | uninstalled Apple Stocks app from my Mac and iPhone because
           | of all the terrible ads. The ads I was were even worse than
           | this:
           | 
           | https://images.app.goo.gl/dVbDoBuScVzp3uAg9
        
             | latsnoopy wrote:
             | wtf, i have never seen any add in ios including stock app
        
               | pivo wrote:
               | I think that's in the Apple News "Business News" section
               | at the bottom. I'd never noticed it before myself.
        
           | at-fates-hands wrote:
           | I saw this coming a few months ago and had the same reaction.
           | 
           | I was already in the market for a new PC. I'm just finalizing
           | what version of Linux I want to run for my dev work and then
           | I'm going to offload my Adobe work onto a Mac Mini and
           | finally get rid of Windows once and for all.
        
         | mostlysimilar wrote:
         | It also infuriates me that they won't let you actually say no.
         | It's always "remind me later" or "skip for now" or "try again
         | in 3 days".
         | 
         | What has gotten into the minds of these people? Why do they
         | think this is at all acceptable?
        
           | DANmode wrote:
           | > Why do they think this is at all acceptable?
           | 
           | You're still a Windows user, aren't you? (No judgement, just
           | answering the question!)
        
           | nikanj wrote:
           | Their incentives are off. They get a bonus for implementing
           | customer-hostile features, and don't lose anything if the
           | users hate it.
        
         | max51 wrote:
         | >What on Earth could they possibly do now to top that ?
         | 
         | Autoplaying videos with sound
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | That auto pause if your eyes look away.
        
             | ChickenNugger wrote:
             | DRINK VERIFICATION CAN
        
             | max51 wrote:
             | with VR/AR, there is no place to look away ;)
        
           | omoikane wrote:
           | Related: https://xkcd.com/1305/
        
         | soraminazuki wrote:
         | For me, it was worse. It happened every time I booted Windows
         | because I only used it occasionally to play games.
         | 
         | After I select Windows in the boot menu, I'd spend like ten
         | minutes waiting for Windows Update to complete. Then I have to
         | click through a series of full screen ads and prompts to
         | disable my privacy settings, which is getting increasingly
         | difficult with all the dark patterns thrown in after every new
         | release. It really shows a lack of respect for the user, taking
         | my computer hostage while I resist their attempts to enable
         | numerous privacy-invading settings that I declined over and
         | over and over.
         | 
         | Over the years, this made me distrust Windows so much that I
         | removed anything critical off of it. I removed my password
         | manager, deleted my browsing data, and made sure to remove
         | anything tied to an online account except Steam.
         | 
         | Then I finally had enough and moved my games over to Linux. So
         | far, the experience is good and I'm glad that WINE is going
         | through active improvements.
        
         | howard941 wrote:
         | This also happens to a machine that's left on overnight.
         | Something Happens and it reboots - I lose my RDP connection -
         | to this awful dialog.
        
       | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
       | If a third party remotely administered something like this it
       | would probably be labeled a "botnet". No doubt the amount of data
       | that Microsoft exfiltrates about Windows users is no less than
       | any "botnet" would. Customers have about as much control over
       | what Microsoft decides it wants to do as they do over an pseudo-
       | anonymous botnet. As an original Windows 3.11 user (LAN-only, no
       | internet), it's amazing to see how far we have come. Computer
       | owners born into this new world of always-on, uncontrollable
       | remote administration would have little reason to know any
       | different. (HN readers or similar being an exception.)
        
       | jjice wrote:
       | Don't they still charge a $100+ license for Windows? I have
       | Windows 10 for games, but I haven't booted into it in months
       | since Steam has been fantastic on Linux (relative to it's past,
       | it has some ways to go).
       | 
       | I'll be the classic Linux desktop optimist: the improvements over
       | the last four years along have been fantastic and I really hope
       | for a future when it can meet everyone's needs.
       | 
       | My OS shouldn't advertise to me. It shouldn't sell my data, or
       | shouldn't do anything like that. It especially shouldn't harass
       | me to log into the owning company's account. I shouldn't need any
       | internet account to just use the OS (missing features relates the
       | said account is obviously reasonable).
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | They do and it is absurd. I bought Win11 Pro from here for
         | about $20, the price has since gone up a bit: https://www.vip-
         | urcdkey.com/key/microsoft-windows-11-pro-oem...
        
           | michaelmrose wrote:
           | This does not look at all legitimate
        
             | whalesalad wrote:
             | I've purchased a handful of keys over the years. It's
             | legit.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | They're OEM keys which are against EULA to use in this
               | way. It might work now, but they could ban those keys
               | later if they want to.
        
         | grujicd wrote:
         | Professional is more like $200, and has all that crap as home
         | version.
        
         | ashwagary wrote:
         | >It shouldn't sell my data, or shouldn't do anything like that.
         | It especially shouldn't harass me to log into the owning
         | company's account
         | 
         | Consumers didn't react harshly enough after the prism leaks.
         | Microsoft has gotten the inch and is taking a mile.
        
       | uni_baconcat wrote:
       | I guess the trend that Microsoft put more adverts in Windows is
       | unstoppable.
        
       | nice_byte wrote:
       | from the title, I thought these would be ads for third-party
       | products. it actually is just prodding to install/use ms's own
       | stuff, so it's a nothingburger.
        
       | tonymet wrote:
       | anyone know the option to turn this off? yesterday's post on
       | disabling news / entertainment content was great.
        
       | jdlyga wrote:
       | Windows 11 has already lost the marketing battle. They should
       | have kept the version number at 10 and gone with a "ui refresh"
       | update. People aren't going to switch until Windows 12 is
       | released.
        
         | samhuk wrote:
         | They will likely just discontinue Windows 10 to force everybody
         | onto 11 in good time; like they tried to do with Windows 7.
         | 
         | I'm on Windows 10 at the moment and no way am I upgrading. From
         | what I've seen and heard so far, 11 is an absolute festering
         | nightmare.
        
           | grujicd wrote:
           | Windows 10 support ends on October 2025, as of things stand
           | now.
        
             | MattPalmer1086 wrote:
             | And that's fine with me. The only reason I keep windows
             | around is because I use VSTs in digital audio software. I
             | don't need to connect it to the internet so there's no
             | security issues.
             | 
             | In maybe 5 years I will have to think about what I do with
             | it all...
        
       | phone8675309 wrote:
       | Don't they already do this with some games and services in
       | Windows 10? Is this just a supercharged version of what happens
       | in Windows 10?
       | 
       | Definitely guarantees that the fTPM stays off on all of my
       | machines so they can't be force upgraded.
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | I think the new part is putting them on the start menu versus
         | things like a widget bar or dedicated notifications area that
         | you can easily totally ignore or turn off.
         | 
         | It's dumping clutter into things like "shut down" where you
         | aren't expecting clutter.
        
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