[HN Gopher] Iceland long term visa for remote workers
___________________________________________________________________
Iceland long term visa for remote workers
Author : simonebrunozzi
Score : 155 points
Date : 2023-03-28 15:32 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (island.is)
(TXT) w3m dump (island.is)
| diego_moita wrote:
| Iceland? Ouch!
|
| People are lovely and awesome but the place is barren, cold,
| windy and desolated.
|
| I'd take a lot of places in southern Europe, instead.
| connectsnk wrote:
| I am afraid I will get downvoted for this heavily. But in my
| experience Iceland (just like its name) is a desert with no
| vegetation and consequently has minimum biodiversity.
|
| No matter what is the carrot being hung, I would not wish to be
| in this land.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_f90pXw5sQ
| seanhunter wrote:
| I could not disagree more. I absolutely love Iceland and would
| love to return. I cannot recommend it strongly enough. My
| experience was beautiful scenery (with plenty of vegetation),
| stunning glaciers and hot springs etc, and very friendly and
| welcoming people.
| atoav wrote:
| But very high beer prices.
| darknavi wrote:
| I think it's really just a matter of opinion.
|
| Would I like to live there forever? No way. Would I work
| remotely there for 3-6 months to explore a unique,bio diverse
| island? Hell yea!
| Reubachi wrote:
| As OP said, iceland is about as un biodiverse as it gets.
| I've been a few times and it's as close to the moon as
| possible. That said it is beautiful and kind of feels
| like....you're on a giant desert island surrounded by
| mountains that's very cold, and very expensive.
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| My secondhand understanding of Iceland is that the entire
| island is grazed by herds of domesticated animals. It's
| like a small, cold, remote version of Texas.
| throwaway1777 wrote:
| Well not quite, Antarctica is a bit closer.
| paul7986 wrote:
| Have you visited it's such a cool/unique place and it's really
| not crazy cold there (20 to 45 F in the winter on average). The
| wind is intense, but the cold is not like something like
| Fairbanks, Alaska.
|
| Things I love about Iceland compared to the US
|
| - Almost zero crime
|
| - Police, I only saw three cars in nine days
|
| - No one can carry a gun
|
| - All citizens (free healthcare) well paid compared to US
|
| - Hot water from a faucet comes directly from the ground
|
| - Geothermal govt run bathhouses in each neighborhood for after
| work socializing.
|
| - Hike to an active volcano or to a hot river to bathe in
|
| - Beautiful outdoor scenery
|
| - The Northern Lights
|
| One negative is it's expensive i.e. a large pizza from a
| pizzeria here in the states will run you $12 to $15 while there
| it's $21 to $25.
| runarberg wrote:
| Note that it is not this rosie in reality. Iceland has issues
| like any other places:
|
| - There are still crimes, particularly against women during
| the nightlife which isn't investigated and reported in crime
| statistics.
|
| - Police just acquired permission from the minister of
| justice to carry stun guns. There are recent cases of racial
| profiling which are particularly worrysom
|
| - Gun laws are increasingly un-enforced and gun crimes are on
| the rise. Iceland has one of the largest per capita gun
| ownership in Europe.
|
| - The healthcare system is increasingly underfunded, wait
| lists for healthcare are getting longer. A recent immigration
| bill denies health care to asylum seekers.
|
| - Hot water is a plenty so this is mostly true.
|
| - The swimming pools are amazing places to socialize and
| still relatively cheap... So this is also true
|
| - The volcano has stopped erupting, this last one was indeed
| very approachable. More likely volcanoes form way in the
| highlands and are not approachable unless you can charter a
| plain or a helicopter.
|
| - The outdoor scenery is relative. I much more favor the
| trees in the pacific north west where I live now over the
| mossy lava-fields where I grew up.
|
| - The northern lights are cool but light pollution is a
| problem in and around the city or any town and village.
| paul7986 wrote:
| Compared to the US there is barely is any crime!
|
| There are no school shootings yet here there's almost one a
| day it seems.
|
| Seemed as safe as Norway where moms leave their babies out
| in their carriages bundled up for fresh air while they go
| into their house to clean. A mom who did that here would be
| possibly arrested
|
| So Iceland is paradise if you are a tired of seeing all the
| crime in America. I didn't know it was that bad here til my
| dates (locals) I met and talked with at one of the
| neighborhood family bathhouses pointed it out. How scared
| they are of going to the US. Which I replied it's not that
| bad not everyone has a gun yet once I was home I had a
| crazy gunman who shot police hiding in the woods of my
| backyard and we were told to shelter in place. Sure that's
| not happening in Iceland cause even and only police only
| have stun guns!
| haliskerbas wrote:
| where in the states? In LA, NY or SF, the Iceland price seems
| pretty on par for a large pizza
| paul7986 wrote:
| Baltimore city and surrounding counties.
|
| Iceland is one the more expensive European cities for food
| at least.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| Do you normally decide where to travel based on the
| destinations biodiversity?
| Quarrelsome wrote:
| > But in my experience Iceland (just like its name) is a desert
| with no vegetation and consequently has minimum biodiversity.
|
| Yes, although don't let the bus out from Keflavik fool you, the
| south west tip of the island is lava flats and it does look a
| bit like the moon. The rest of the country is a lot more
| interesting than that.
|
| However you _never_ go to Iceland for the biodiversity, same
| way you don't go to Bangladesh for the diarrhoea. You go for
| the pristine wilderness, the ice and glaciers, the volcanism,
| the aurora borealis, the perma-day in the summer, the people
| (they're amazing!), the partying, the new year celebration
| (most households fire a firework at 00:00) or the language
| which is as close to ancient norse as you can get.
|
| Also what is unique to Iceland is its size and culture, it is
| very Anglosphere, and a curious blend of European and American
| in culture (due to the legacy of the US base) Reykjavik has
| elements of both city and village life in a single spot and its
| an interesting test bed for services or products as a
| consequence.
| BigCryo wrote:
| Iceland is too expensive I would imagine.. go Latin America or
| Southeast Asia, problem is that it's hard to get to stay there
| long-term unless you go through the bureaucracy.. some expats
| have speculated for years that America uses its influence
| overseas to prevent Americans from moving overseas permanently to
| cheap Nations like the third world
| IntelMiner wrote:
| Reminded me of an ancient King of the Hill joke
|
| "Hank and I used to go to Mexico every time they devalued the
| peso!"
|
| "Yeah, that got old fast..."
| mrleinad wrote:
| I'm curious. What prevents an American from living in Argentina
| long term? I believe the country is quite friendly in terms of
| long term visitors. Have you done some research on that?
| Aachen wrote:
| That they don't like you to get a salary in USD and the Peso
| has crazy inflation, would be one consideration. But then
| I've heard Buenos Aires can be quite like any rich country
| city (probably for most people here: normal city) and life's
| definitely a lot cheaper there so it might be worth it
| BigCryo wrote:
| The speculation says that America uses its power to coerce
| cheap Nations to throw up bureaucratic obstacles and
| restrictions that prevent Americans from moving overseas
| easily.. America protects this financial capital for moving
| overseas but it also protects social capital for moving
| overseas by keeping Americans here and stopping them from
| taking their savings and moving to cheap countries and
| therefore robbing America of social capital... Let me be
| specific.. it would financially benefit third world countries
| to allow Americans with money to move in easily and without
| restrictions without Visa time limits and so forth.. and when
| I say any American with money I mean any person who's had a
| job and worked and saved the money from the job... I'm not
| talking about rich people ...
|
| the idea is that America uses its power against the third
| world Nations to coerce them to throw up restrictions to
| moving easily overseas
| kylehotchkiss wrote:
| No, the "bureaucratic obstacles" are often what people
| living with these countries deal with on a normal basis.
| The only thing you're adding to that is being on a visa
| instead of a citizenship.
|
| Don't forget many third world countries are former colonies
| of western countries and don't necessarily want large
| amounts of westerns residing there again.
|
| > it would financially benefit third world countries to
| allow Americans with money to move in easily and without
| restrictions without Visa time limits and so fort
|
| It financially benefits third world countries when
| Americans with money _try_ to move in. Via bribery etc.
| Also many of these countries have high end hotels where
| they can get the same money from somebody who stays a week
| or two and leaves and never makes a fuss about local
| issues!
|
| You should see what "bureaucratic obstacles" exist for
| people in third world countries that want to visit USA. The
| US tourist visa has no publically-known requirements beyond
| "shows intent to return home after trip". This is quite
| arbitrary and the visa officers at embassies abroad are
| given the final say in visa issuance. (To be fair, if there
| were bank balance requirements, people would both photoshop
| their statements and ask for friends/family to borrow the
| amount to pad their account before their visa interview).
| If you are rejected, they only tell you to "try again
| later" without ever telling you the reason of rejection.
| People who can afford to visit relatives and intend on
| returning at the end of their trip will have their visa
| applications denied on a regular basis. There's just so
| many applicants to be more through.
| jrmg wrote:
| The USA does this in secret? That does not seem plausible.
| Think of the coordination required.
| carlosjobim wrote:
| It makes much sense, considering that European emigrants to
| America were the force that conquered Europe during WWII.
| Maybe the American government doesn't want that to happen
| to them.
| yourapostasy wrote:
| If that was true, wouldn't countries that are hostile
| towards the US like North Korea, Iran, Russia, Cuba, _etc._
| be enacting visa regimes to undermine the US?
|
| Having dealt with various nations' bureaucracies, I'm more
| inclined to believe most simply haven't been convinced it
| is worth their administrative overhead trouble to capture
| the financial benefits of welcoming digital nomads for
| longer stays. They're quite well aware digital nomads exist
| and many desire longer stays. It is still considered a
| pretty niche population compared to regular tourism and
| likely not worth catering to yet. With RTO spreading, it
| likely will remain so until WFM becomes more mainstream in
| the future.
| slaw wrote:
| Latin America and Southeast Asia are opposite in terms for long
| term stay. You can stay easily up to 180 days in Latin America,
| not to in SE Asia.
| beardedman wrote:
| ...long term visa for high earning remote workers...
| FpUser wrote:
| >"it is not your intention to settle in Iceland"
|
| I assume one can be working remotely and at the same time
| applying for permanent residence. What is the problem with that?
| meheleventyone wrote:
| You'd need a different visa presumably.
| mataug wrote:
| Having visited Iceland previously, I'd love to work there over
| the summer.
|
| > you can show a foreign income of ISK 1,000,000 per month or ISK
| 1,300,000 if you also apply for a spouse or cohabiting partner.
|
| > you do not need a visa to enter the Schengen area
|
| Unfortunately this ^ disqualifies me, despite meeting the income
| requirements, since I need a visa to enter the Schengen region.
| This seems to be an odd requirement, they are already issuing a
| visa, why require people to have powerful passports as well ?
| anon98356 wrote:
| Because Iceland is a member of the Schengen zone. It's possible
| to travel between countries in the Schengen area without going
| through border control (although I don't know about the
| specifics of travelling to/from Iceland).
| itslennysfault wrote:
| I traveled from US to Iceland to France without knowing this
| and honestly thought I somehow bypassed customs when I got to
| France. So, this is correct you can go from Iceland to other
| Schengen zone countries without any checks (I didn't show my
| passport or do customs at all)
| mataug wrote:
| That was part of my earlier point, they are already issuing a
| visa, and a visa to Iceland is a Schengen Visa. This seems to
| imply that they only want nationals from certain countries.
|
| Contrast this with Spain's digital nomad program, where they
| don't require someone to have a powerful passport, all they
| seem to care about is having a job outside spain.
|
| https://prie.comercio.gob.es/en-
| us/paginas/teletrabajadores-...
| jck wrote:
| This is essentially just a way for people from the Americas to
| legally work from Iceland for a few months.
| unsupp0rted wrote:
| Or Australians... or Malaysians... or Japanese...
| iso1631 wrote:
| Or Brits, presumably just the 75% that did not vote to
| reduce their right to live and work in dozens of countries
| throwaway049 wrote:
| Iceland is not in the EU either.
| iso1631 wrote:
| Iceland is in the EEA meaning EU citizens can work there
| without a permit for upto 3 months
| [deleted]
| ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
| No third world countries.
| [deleted]
| scottyah wrote:
| Iceland is expensive, it would be very unkind to let someone
| live there for an extended time yet not be able to enjoy a
| good quality of life.
| ecedeno wrote:
| They already have an income requirement. How does this
| contribute to better enjoying a good quality of life?
| Aachen wrote:
| Also discussed in this subthread
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35344437. My take
| (having been there two weeks and done all the tours and
| seen all the things) is that you'd need (less than?) half
| of that income requirement for a normal comfort level that
| I also have in my home country (currently Germany).
|
| It's not a cheap country but 7k/month as "minimum income"
| is not a requirement out of necessity or kindness.
| rauljordan2020 wrote:
| I'm from Honduras and don't need a Schengen visa. Many other
| poor countries can also get in without one
| narag wrote:
| Probably the reason is more political and cultural than
| economic.
|
| FWIW, the origin of "third world" is political, being the
| NATO and the Warsaw Pact countries the first and second.
| The poverty implication came later.
|
| Is a visa needed to enter Spain from any Spanish-speaking
| country? (Spain is in Schengen)
| cromulent wrote:
| Yeah, Finland and Switzerland are 3rd world countries, in
| the Schengen, but not developing countries.
| jersak wrote:
| Guess I'm the exception to this rule, then. Although I don't
| live in my home country anymore, my third world country
| passport is allowed.
| sabellito wrote:
| You are misinformed, the list is mixed:
|
| https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/who-needs-schengen-visa/
| [deleted]
| vegardx wrote:
| I think it's because Iceland can't issue long-term visas due to
| the Schengen-agreement, only short term tourist visa or full
| residency.
|
| Contrary to popular belief, at least within the Schengen-area,
| it's hard to immigrate into the Schengen-area from the outside.
| [deleted]
| realworldperson wrote:
| [dead]
| yohannparis wrote:
| that's CAD 10k per month, not pocket changes indeed.
| r00f wrote:
| I have always been blown away by money requirements for such
| visas, in many countries. Show monthly income of 1000000 ISK.
| Over 7k USD. Why?
|
| I used to live in Dubai, which is considered pretty expensive
| place, and never spent over 2500 per month, despite dining out
| almost all the time. Maybe 3000 if I needed some purchases like
| clothing or hobbies stuff. I get it, Numbeo says Iceland is 13%
| more expensive, but 7k? What exactly kind of lifestyle are they
| expecting from humble nomad?
|
| Not all nomads work remotely for FAANG. Some live happy nomad
| life with much lower income.
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| Why would a tiny exclusive island ever want anyone other than
| high income individuals to move there?
|
| If it weren't the fact that US cities cannot restrict the free
| migration of individuals, almost all of them would ban anyone
| moving there who didn't make above the average income for the
| area. Hawaii's last Republic governor tried every possible step
| to kick out the Marshallese, which is fucking hilarious
| considering how few of them there are globally.
|
| If it wasn't for the US constitution you'd have giant slums in
| the interstitial space between cities, with a few zones
| stylized after the Jewish Autonomous Oblast here and there as
| well.
| starik36 wrote:
| > Over 7k USD.
|
| I don't think you understand how ridiculously expensive Iceland
| is. Practically everything has to be shipped/flown in.
|
| Just to give you an idea, a small completely unremarkable
| burger at a fast food place will be around $20-25. It will not
| make you full.
|
| 7K a month is realistic. Our vacation was still fantastic
| despite the cost.
| Aachen wrote:
| That's realistic if you are there as a tourist who wants the
| premium experience on everything.
|
| Staying in hotels and eating out daily, we didn't spend 7k
| when extrapolating our two weeks to a month. Heck, it's still
| below 7k if you include all one-time purchases like the way
| there and back, clothing, new expensive hiking boots, etc.
| I've got a problem with most waterproof fabrics so I didn't
| have a raincoat, but reading about Iceland, I figured it's
| worth finding one that works for me, so that's another
| purchase I count towards my Iceland expenses. All in all
| still below 7k after extrapolation. (Edit: oh and I forgot
| that this is for 2 persons. You can't divide by two of
| course, but some correction factor should be applied.)
|
| I fully agree with anyone saying Iceland is expensive, but if
| you stay in an actual apartment instead of hotels, don't do a
| number of guided tours every month, don't rent a vehicle for
| the whole time you're there (and drive around, though fuel
| was a surprisingly small part of the final expenses), you'll
| definitely not need 7k per month.
| lazyasciiart wrote:
| They have absolutely no interest in sponsoring visitors.
| This visa program is intended to bring in well-off
| professionals who will have plenty of cash to live a
| comfortable lifestyle and cover a disastrous broken leg or
| two and still be able to fly back home if they lose their
| job. That $7k is before taxes, before retirement savings,
| before health insurance, before your assumed flight home
| once every month or two...
| seanhunter wrote:
| > Show monthly income of 1000000 ISK. Over 7k USD. Why?
|
| I'm not familiar with the reasoning for Iceland specifically
| but in another country (Switzerland) I was in the position of
| having to apply for long-term work visas for myself and some of
| my employees. There they justified the high income requirement
| because they wanted to know you weren't going to bring in cheap
| foreign labour and thereby undercut local wages. So you had to
| show that the wages were high in absolute terms and that you
| weren't paying less than the national average.
| dagurp wrote:
| Expect to spend a third of that on rent
| Pmop wrote:
| Isn't Iceland inhabited by like 340k people? Maybe they're
| testing the waters or trying to limit how many people end up
| moving there.
|
| Overall I agree. DNs would use Portugal's D7 to move in (in an
| exception of what the visa was originally intended to), but
| then Portugal introduced a DN visa which now requires a much
| higher income than what D7 requires, I think 4x times more than
| D7.
| MrDresden wrote:
| Iceland is in Schengen. Effectively the whole of Europe could
| move here tomorrow if they wanted. This is not due to
| immigration control.
| foldr wrote:
| It's in the EEA, more to the point.
| [deleted]
| EduardoBautista wrote:
| D7 was minimum wage, if I recall correctly, around 800 euros
| per month. I don't think 4x minimum wage is at all
| unreasonable if it makes the process smoother, since they
| make the D7 application process as horrible as possible.
|
| I had an awful experience applying for D7, so I am now
| happily living in Dubai instead which has the best residency
| process I have seen for ANY country.
| triceratops wrote:
| They want rich nomads who will spend lots of money in the local
| economy.
| slaw wrote:
| Only high earners are welcomed.
| ashconnor wrote:
| Your FAANG job probably wouldn't allow you to work from Iceland
| anyway.
|
| Still the requirements are less strict than Thailand's remote
| work visa [0] but that lasts for 5 years renewable for another
| 5.
|
| In Thailand's case the existence of a work-from-Thailand visa
| also clarifies that working remotely on other visas (Tourist,
| Non-O, Non-B) is not permitted.
|
| [0] - https://kpmg.com/th/en/home/insights/2022/11/legal-news-
| flas...
| zerr wrote:
| Seems like a lawful way to say "North Americans Only".
| noodlesUK wrote:
| Basically because you already need to have visa free entry to
| Schengen (and if you're an EEA/CH citizen you can already
| move there) this is only available to North Americans,
| Aussies/Kiwis, and other rich countries like Japan, as well
| as us Brits mourning our FOM.
| whichfawkes wrote:
| Well, of course they're going to set the requirement high
| enough that they can be confident you'll survive without them
| needing to pay to deport you.
|
| Beyond that though, they want you to spend your money in
| Iceland - why else?
|
| Presumably you aren't paying any income tax. So the only
| advantage to letting you into the country is that you'll spend
| money on goods and services.
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| They want to attract high value individuals because they are
| doing this to benefit their country and economy while limiting
| number of people, not to make foreigners happy.
| MrDresden wrote:
| Local tech worker in Iceland, and this is the going rate for a
| midrange software worker.
|
| Wages here have grown ~25% (for the whole country) over the
| last ~4 years (if my memory from the reporting on this is
| correct).
|
| Everything has to be imported, and what little that isn't is
| heavily reliant on imported goods.
|
| Living here is mightily expensive.
|
| Ofcourse you could live more frugally, and obviously most here
| do. Tech workers here are in the top income bracket like in
| most other places.
|
| Not sure why digital nomad visas should have lower restrictions
| though. We want foreigners that come here and spend their
| money. No need to make it easier for the frugal tourist to come
| here for longer.
| xwdv wrote:
| We shipped our 4x4 to Iceland and went off roading for several
| months while working remotely. Truly an incredible lifetime
| experience that I would recommend to anyone if they love nature.
| Unfortunately I have never really been able to see the beauty of
| my urban surroundings again ever since spending all that time in
| Iceland.
| runarberg wrote:
| Please don't do that.
|
| Icelandic flora is very vulnerable and driving off roads will
| cause sever damage that will last for decades. It is highly
| illegal to drive off roads except for glaciers and beaches. In
| fact there is a huge social stigma against off road driving.
| Tourists that get caught regularly get ridiculed on national
| television, and rightly so.
| biftek wrote:
| I assumed he meant driving on the F roads
| xwdv wrote:
| We're not "tourists", we're expeditionists, and Iceland has
| incredible off-road trails to see. Ridiculous.
| runarberg wrote:
| * * *
| bmelton wrote:
| Took a vacation to Iceland for this past new year's, and am
| thrilled to hear any news that might allow me to stay there for
| longer. When I left Iceland, it felt very much like I was leaving
| a fairy tale.
|
| I was delighted by the whales off the coast, and the northern
| lights felt like a spiritual event, but (at least according to
| lore) the Vikings invented the modern new year celebration by
| considering it a good enough time for everyone to dispose of
| their old flares and replace them with new, and so new year's in
| Iceland was better than the greatest fireworks show I'd ever
| witnessed, despite exactly 0% of the fireworks having been
| municipally provided. It felt like every member of every home had
| spent their life savings on fireworks and were setting them all
| off for hours. Impossible to describe, but here's some drone
| footage (not mine) that captures about 10 minutes of what went on
| for hours, and the experience from the city center on the ground
| was even more encompassing.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAnQ7ECC2LA&t=245s
| exar0815 wrote:
| Been on Iceland on NY21/22 as well, NYE from the Perlan was
| absolutely mindnumbing. Vik was absolutely beautiful. Polar
| Lights left me completely speechless.
|
| Most beautiful country in the world. Even though the winter was
| harsh. Perfect if you love photography, the whole day Golden
| Hour basically.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| What is the temp on a winter night? I once spent NYE in NYC and
| froze my butt off... much preferred my time in Rio DJ. :-D
| Would love to try Iceland in the summer.
| bmelton wrote:
| Depends on the night, obviously, but "very cold" is a safe
| assertion.
|
| The first day there I had a hard time, thinking that my
| casual cold-weather gear would keep me comfortable was a
| mistake I learned the hard way tracking the northern lights
| on a mountaintop at 2 in the morning on the coldest night
| they'd had in 50 years.
|
| But, the next day I picked up a pair of (expensive)
| sweatpants to act as a third layer, and I was just fine.
| Toasty enough that at night times I'd casually take off a hat
| or some gloves.
|
| If you absolutely hate cold weather, maybe check it out in
| summer time. If you're willing to layer (and not just throw
| on dumb layers like I did) then it's totally manageable.
|
| I found the magic combo to be: * Thermalsilk
| top and bottom base layer * An intermediate layer for
| very cold nights (https://www.icewear.is/us/fodurland-wool-
| underwear-baselayer) * I got away with those two and a
| pair of Amazon Basics chinos, but a hard shell outer layer is
| probably smarter if you're trekking through snow
|
| Otherwise, normal layering rules apply. Have a scarf and
| gloves (ideally, with liners) and a good hat, then
| Thermalsilk and a winter coat were all I needed, but I would
| often have a niceish sweatshirt layered in there as we often
| had dinner plans and I didn't want to violate any dress-code
| norms.
| ghaff wrote:
| Pretty similar to NYC in winter (because Gulf Stream). But
| then, I don't consider NYC especially cold for the most part;
| it's basically mid-Atlantic relative to New England much less
| northern Midwest.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Was a bit colder than normal now that I think of it. Big
| jacket wasn't enough because the legs got cold without long
| undies.
| danudey wrote:
| Iceland was absolutely fantastic. Iceland Air started doing
| direct flights from Vancouver and my wife and I got on the
| inaugural flight, despite her being several uncomfortable
| months pregnant.
|
| Some highlights:
|
| * We saw geysir, the first geyser known to modern Europeans and
| the source of the name "geyser" [0]
|
| * We went inside of a volcano [1]
|
| * We did _not_ get fooled by Icelandic polar bears [2]
|
| * We (well, I) ate an average of two hot dogs per day [3]
|
| * We saw a viking home which they unearthed during construction
| and then built a museum around [4]
|
| * We boiled ourselves like happy lobsters [5]
|
| * We had te og kaffi, which smelled and tasted like the best
| cafe I'd been to in years [6]
|
| We went in April and were really glad we'd bought sleeping
| masks for the flight as the midnight sun did throw us for a
| loop. We were walking down the street one day wondering why all
| the stores were closed already, then saw a group of young women
| in glittery dresses and platform heels walking down the street.
| Checked my phone and it was 11 PM on a Saturday. Oh, okay,
| clubbing. Right, it's bedtime. Okay.
|
| When we got back from Iceland, my wife was starting a new
| position at her company where she had to show up at 6:30 AM, so
| we ended up keeping the same sleep schedule and getting up at
| 3:30 every morning to have breakfast and commute together.
| Working in tech meant I had about six hours alone in the office
| before anyone else really showed up, which was quite peaceful.
|
| Highly recommend Iceland, even if you don't go for New Year's!
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geysir
|
| [1] https://insidethevolcano.com/
|
| [2] https://fooledbyiceland.tumblr.com/
|
| [3] https://theculturetrip.com/europe/iceland/articles/how-
| this-...
|
| [4] https://reykjavikcitymuseum.is/the-settlement-
| exhibition/exh...
|
| [5] https://www.bluelagoon.com/
|
| [6] https://goo.gl/maps/QCDLW6DPyLSeKumF9
| amatecha wrote:
| Nice, glad to hear you went to Iceland as well! I went in
| 2020, not sure when the YVR<->KEF direct flights started
| though! We just snuck in before COVID got crazy, and in fact
| our flight home got canceled the night before we were due to
| leave -- ended up getting booked a replacement flight through
| LHR though it required a bunch of stressful calls to Iceland
| Air.. that was an interesting finale to the trip. On the
| upside, all tourist attractions were basically empty and we
| had an even more "isolated" and otherworldly experience than
| planned! A+++ would visit Iceland at the start of a pandemic
| again :)
| bmelton wrote:
| I did not go inside of a volcano, but did climb a glacier.
| Otherwise, while I thought the hot dogs were pretty neat, the
| wife didn't care for them, so we stuck to the one and then
| engaged in more of their fine dining options.
|
| Dill and Ox were phenomenal. One of them has a Michelin star,
| but I can't remember which. Kol was also pretty great.
| Otherwise, it was great snacking on stupid gift-shop snacks
| like smoked salmon and capers as a dramatic contrast to the
| typical American gift shop snacks of corn chips.
|
| The settlement exhibition we saw as part of a walking tour,
| and absolutely adored, but somewhat overshadowed by the
| "Bureaucrat" statue across the street from it[1].
|
| Didn't have te og kaffi, but did enjoy Skyr (which is a
| cheese that you can DRINK).
|
| On the whole, I enjoyed it more than I could have thought
| possible. You mentioned Iceland Air, and one thing I thought
| was really smart was that they've positioned themselves as a
| destination layover going from North America to Europe. We
| usually travel to Europe for vacations, but this time we
| "punted" and chose Iceland as our preferred accommodations in
| London were unavailable, and now I am keen to make a
| tradition of stopping over in Iceland everywhere I can.
|
| [1] https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/monument-to-the-
| unknown-...
| jersak wrote:
| I was sold when you said "direct flights from Vancouver". One
| of the biggest pain points for me is having to get connecting
| flights in the east coast for most destinations we plan to go
| to.
| melenaboija wrote:
| Spain also provides a nomad visa:
|
| - Digital nomads (Official) [1]
|
| - 'Digital nomads' can now live in Spain with their families --
| if they earn enough [2]
|
| [1] https://prie.comercio.gob.es/en-
| us/paginas/teletrabajadores-...
|
| [2] https://www.immigrationspain.es/en/visa-for-digital-nomads/
| outworlder wrote:
| Portugal too.
| lr4444lr wrote:
| What's the incentive here? A rotating cast of high income earners
| paying state and local taxes without the benefit the pension
| system(s)? The country has about 1.73 births per woman with a
| barely positive net migration. Maybe they should think about
| getting interested people on a citizenship path.
| carlosjobim wrote:
| Those people would not be Icelandic. The purpose of a nation is
| to serve their people, not to replace them with other people.
| [deleted]
| ericmay wrote:
| > Maybe they should think about getting interested people on a
| citizenship path
|
| One thing you'll find out is that the EU member states (along
| with Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.) are really not very
| friendly or welcoming in terms of "path to citizenship".
|
| One thing I'd like to see actually is open immigration and
| potentially _more_ free trade between the US, Canada,
| Australia, New Zealand, and the UK. I 'd add Ireland but I
| think EU status would be a problem.
| robocat wrote:
| > along with Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.) are really
| not very friendly or welcoming in terms of "path to
| citizenship".
|
| About 30% of New Zealand and Australia's populations are
| immigrants. I don't think we could let many more in! As a
| comparison, the US is about 15% population of immigrants -
| and look at the stink over there about there being too many!
| The places with more immigrants than NZ/Oz by percentage are
| mostly either small island populations, or Arab states (where
| you are not actually an immigrant, since you don't have
| citizenship rights, and slave labour conditions are rife).
|
| One resulting issue is that some major parts of the NZ/Oz
| housing markets are already some of the most unaffordable in
| the world (think San Franscisco, but earning less so even
| less affordable)! The five most expensive cities in the world
| by unaffordability are Hong Kong, Vancouver, Sydney,
| Auckland, Toronto : e.g. Sydney: average monthly income of
| $6,100 with median house price of $1.4 million. Auckland
| median house price is $1.1 million, whereas the average
| individual monthly income is $4,269. We have the land, we
| just need to build a lot of houses to keep up.
| ygjb wrote:
| I don't know about other countries, but immigration targets
| in Canada are trending towards attracting 500,000 immigrants
| per year by 2025. Just because we have alot of openings
| doesn't mean it's easy though... there are several paths, and
| most of them are designed to favour folks who will integrate
| well socially and economically (and that doesn't just mean
| rich white folks, it means more along the lines of skilled
| labour and the means to sustain your family while they get
| settled).
| umanwizard wrote:
| It is way easier to get a work visa (and later citizenship)
| in any of the countries you named than it is in the US.
| rocket_surgeron wrote:
| >A rotating cast of high income earners paying state and local
| taxes without the benefit the pension system(s)?
|
| Did you expect something different?
|
| That's literally the goal of every "DiGiTaLnOmAd" (you're a
| migrant worker, dickhead) visa scheme everywhere in the world.
| They want short-term renters eating out every night and racking
| up airport fees.
|
| edit: unless you're super-wealthy in which case "Velkominn,
| Willkommen, iratsushiyaimase, Bem-vindo, Huan Ying , Bienvenu,
| Tere tulemast, etc...."
| meheleventyone wrote:
| Iceland has a steady population growth due to immigration
| already. That said there has been talk in the last month or so
| of changing up the visa situation to make it easier to recruit
| tech workers outside of the EEA:
|
| https://northstack.is/2023/03/13/the-icelandic-government-in...
| RomanPushkin wrote:
| I don't know why these countries do everything to _not_ attract
| human capital - limitation of 180 days means no-go for me. Maybe
| I would love to explore a new country for a couple of years, and
| settle down there with my salary component of ~200k instead of
| SFBA. But I need my kids to stay at least 1 year in their
| schools, and 2 years if they like it. And the way to become a
| resident.
|
| It's so easy for them just to attract high-skilled labor everyone
| is fighting for. But nope, they pretty much say: "We know you're
| skilled because we have requirement of 90k/year, but we don't
| want skilled workers to be able to stay here, because go
| somewhere else". Well, ok, Iceland..
| Algemarin wrote:
| > But nope, they pretty much say: "We know you're skilled
| because we have requirement of 90k/year, but we don't want
| skilled workers to be able to stay here, because go somewhere
| else". Well, ok, Iceland..
|
| Correct. It's not a difficult concept to grasp, especially as
| they are being very overt about it. They don't want foreigners
| settling into their country. They want foreigners coming in for
| a short time, pumping money into it, then buggering off.
| dejawu wrote:
| While this seems awesome (and I do hope to make use of it) I do
| find it a little funny that an application for a visa for remote
| work must be submitted by snail mail.
| xenospn wrote:
| Yeah, I was surprised by that. Wouldn't that make processing
| incredibly inefficient?
| version_five wrote:
| I see these visas and I understand there are some circumstances
| where maybe you have to get one (employer letting you work
| remote, maybe certain kinds of rental housing) but honestly I
| don't understand why they have any requirements, and opposed to
| just asking an otherwise admissible person to declare they're
| there for work. Like others, I can already go for 90 days if I
| want for tourism, just with my passport. I don't have to prove
| income or insurance or submit a photo. What real risk are they
| taking by just letting my say I'm coming for 6 months to work
| remotely? All the "remote" visas I've seen are similar, and it
| all just seems like some silly think bureaucrats dreamed up
| because they can't let go of control, that really is pointless.
| Algemarin wrote:
| It's very straightforward: they don't want poor or middle-class
| foreigners in their country. They want rich people. So that the
| rich people can live in expensive housing, eat at expensive
| restaurants, and pump their riches into Iceland's economy.
|
| This is why the minimum barrier to entry into this program is
| having an income of ISK 1,000,000 per month, which means that
| you need a salary of over EUR80 000.
|
| Additionally, they also don't want foreigners to actually
| settle in their country, which is why there is a 180-day
| ceiling. The purpose of this program is to have rich foreigners
| come for a spell, spend lots of money, then go away. They're
| being very transparent about this.
| chroma wrote:
| $80k/year is rich? That's less than the median household
| income in a half-dozen states. 18% of Americans make over
| $100k/year.
| Algemarin wrote:
| > $80k/year is rich?
|
| Yes.
|
| > That's less than the median household income in a half-
| dozen states.
|
| That's nice. Can you guess how many states there are in the
| world?
|
| The fact that you're using the claim that a minority
| percentage in a single country makes a large amount of
| money as an argument for the claim that an 80.000 salary is
| not rich, is a stereotypically American myopic outlook at
| the world.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > $80k/year is rich? That's less than the median household
| income in a half-dozen states.
|
| (1) EUR 80,000 > USD 80,000 (about USD 86,700)
|
| (2) We're discussing _individual wages_ not _household
| income_ of households where the average is >1 wage-earner.
|
| (3) The highest US state median wage is a little over USD
| 80k, and less than EUR 80k.
|
| (4) The US is a rich country, so, yes, median wage earners
| in the US _as a whole_ (much less the median wage earner of
| the state scoring highest on that metric) are rich by any
| non-US-specific standard.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> $80k/year is rich?_
|
| Yes, 80 thousand Euros per year wages is rich by most EU
| standards.
|
| _> 18% of Americans make over $100k/year._
|
| Wow, America, the richest country in the world, has many
| rich people. The more you learn.
| howinteresting wrote:
| The US is a very, very rich country. That's why so many
| people want to move to it.
| MrDresden wrote:
| Iceland is in Schengen, so foreigners living in a country
| which is also a member have the ability to move to Iceland
| and settle here. So foreigners are welcome here. So much so
| that 14% of all residents are foreign and that does obviously
| not count those who have received citizenship.
| throwaway049 wrote:
| Limits on numbers. Welcoming you as a tourist and welcoming you
| indefinitely are not the same thing. It's not a big population
| so wouldn't take a very large number of arrivals to impact
| public services like healthcare and schools.
| mrleinad wrote:
| Which in order to grow, you'd need more people. And they're
| not canadians, they don't have an easy immigration path for
| people that want to move in.
|
| In a way, they're pretty japanese.
| throwaway049 wrote:
| Iceland population is about 0.3M. perhaps they're happy
| with that?
| version_five wrote:
| Why would they want to grow their population?
| tayo42 wrote:
| Maybe they don't want to remote workers? They make hard to get
| visas and discourage working on a tourist visa?
| resonance1994 wrote:
| There are several nationalities belonging to the third world
| for whom this is a godsend (not this one particularly, but
| others in the region). As an Indian national, I have to undergo
| a painful process to procure a tourist visa, which is often
| valid only for a few days. Something like this which let's me
| work remotely for clients based over Europe and North America,
| and let's me travel through Schengen without any stress is
| really a game changer.
| Algemarin wrote:
| > As an Indian national
|
| As an Indian national, you are not eligible for this visa
| program.
|
| One of the requirements is:
|
| > you do not need a visa to enter the Schengen area
| version_five wrote:
| That's even stranger then, so it's exclusively targeting
| people who could effectively just come there anyway.
| Algemarin wrote:
| Correct. It is very explicitly targeting tourists who
| want to stay for more than 90 days, up to 180 days.
| Basically this is a convoluted method of extending
| tourism to rich tourists for a longer (specifically, a
| double) period of time to have them pump more of their
| money into the country. That's all.
| mrleinad wrote:
| Third world tourist that earns over 8k per month? Quite a
| small pool to draw from there.
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| I believe Iceland is in the EEA, which means EU, Norwegian, and
| Swiss citizens have free movement and can move there
| unrestricted.
| alexanderchr wrote:
| Not unrestricted, but easily. You only have to prove that
| you're self sufficient.
| zahma wrote:
| You'd damn sure better be earning well over 7,000 USD a month.
| Iceland is so expensive, and I'd imagine those prices have gone
| up with inflation. Even the locals have a secondary pricelist.
| It's a nice place to visit, but I'm not sure the cost is worth
| the living.
| [deleted]
| eunos wrote:
| The minimum salary requirements is quite huge, almost 90000 USD
| per annum. Seems for now targeting American.
| robopsychology wrote:
| It's European too, you can pretty easily hit $90k in fully
| remote contract jobs
| umanwizard wrote:
| Most Europeans can already live in Iceland without needing a
| visa.
| robopsychology wrote:
| Ah yeah, I forget this as a Brit (:
| devoutsalsa wrote:
| That's likely due to the high cost of living in Iceland. You
| can live cheap-ish anywhere, but it takes a bit of local
| knowledge to do that, and I suspect the cheaper housing options
| in Iceland are not what most digital nomads seek. One data
| point, in spring of 2021, I saw 1kg of cherries (imported from
| the Netherlands) in the store for the equivalent of 25 USD.
| diceduckmonk wrote:
| A Domino's pizza there is $30 for a medium.
| amatecha wrote:
| I happen to have my stack of receipts from my Iceland trip
| in front of me (was cleaning out some stuff), and my
| "bearnaise burger & fries" from the "N1" gas station was
| 1770 ISK or about $17.50 CAD, $13USD. Let's see what else I
| have here.. Tenderloin steak from Strikid in Akureyri was
| 5990 ISK or $59CAD, $44USD, Creme Brulee was 1990 ISK so
| $20 CAD or $14.50 USD. (btw Strikid was absolutely
| delicious, 100% recommended).. Indeed Iceland is pretty
| expensive, though not too bad IMO. I'm surprised how ultra-
| high the requirement is to be granted this VISA, though.
| ambicapter wrote:
| Sounds like a mid-size american city.
| MisterBastahrd wrote:
| I live in a large city and I can get a large Dominos
| pizza delivered at full menu price for about $20. If I
| pick it up from the store it's like $8.
| xingped wrote:
| Only 180 days (and only if you're currently in your home
| country)? That's pretty lame and makes it not really worth it. If
| I want to live in a country on a remote worker visa, I'd want it
| to be at least 1yr minimum in length. As it stands, that's barely
| any better/different than a normal tourist visa.
| distances wrote:
| Except that you can't work with a tourist visa? Seems like a
| major difference.
| Retric wrote:
| Most countries allow you to do some remote work on a tourist
| visa. Banning people from checking work email is simply
| untenable if you want tourism.
|
| UK for example has a fairly explicit line: "The applicant
| must not receive payment from a UK source for any activities
| undertaken in the UK."
|
| The idea of someone working fully remotely gets tricky as for
| example the US wants you to pay US taxes if you've made more
| than 3k/year while working in the US.
| tenpies wrote:
| There is something deeply ironic about:
|
| > visa for remote workers
|
| > remote
|
| > Applications can only be submitted in paper form.
|
| What a fantastic way to attract people who will work through the
| internet: by having them submit paperwork through well, paper.
|
| 20,000 ISK says the forms get scanned as soon as they arrive too.
| bengalister wrote:
| The limit to 6 months is pretty disappointing. Also the 1,000,000
| ISK monthly salary for workers in the Schengen area is pretty
| restrictive, except for Switzerland, Norway, not that many people
| earn that level of salary.
| itslennysfault wrote:
| You can stay 90 days on a visitor visa and just leave for a
| weekend every 90 days and start the clock over. When I was on
| my last stint as a "digital nomad" I did this a couple times
| over in a couple different countries. There really isn't any
| way to get "caught". Your host country doesn't care because
| you're importing money and spending it there. The country where
| you have your job doesn't care because you're still paying
| income tax there. Only catch is you have to keep a residency in
| your country of origin. Also, of course, your employer needs to
| be cool with it, but truthfully if you're remote anyways they
| can't really tell where you live as long as you're online
| during the expected hours. Although for me I thought it better
| to be honest/transparent.
|
| All of the above assumes US country of origin, but I'm sure
| it'd work the same with many countries.
| matthews2 wrote:
| > You can stay 90 days on a visitor visa and just leave for a
| weekend every 90 days and start the clock over.
|
| In what country is this the case? For countries in the
| Schengen area, the rule is 90 days out of any 180 day period.
| momirlan wrote:
| one of the most expensive countries in the universe,
| unfortunately.
| ghaff wrote:
| So basically not much different from a 90-day tourist visa except
| that you can legitimately remote work which, in practice, there
| are no real restrictions to doing anyway so long as you're low-
| profile about it.
| KMag wrote:
| > so long as you're low-profile about it.
|
| And your employer is fine with it, or willing to turn a blind
| eye. That rules out lots of people working for large companies,
| particularly in highly regulated industries.
|
| I would have loved to work remotely from Thailand in my
| previous job, and my previous employer would have been fine
| with it, had I been able to show them a work visa.
| Unfortunately, the Thai SMART Visa would have required my
| employer to have a Thai subsidiary. I could have created my own
| Thai single proprietorship and perhaps gotten my employer to
| hire me indirectly via that Thai entity, but at a minimum, that
| would have required lots of high-level approvals.
|
| I got an email from the Ukrainian authorities (pre-2022) saying
| they didn't care if I worked remotely for a foreign company on
| a 90-day on-arrival tourist visa, and that was sufficient for
| my employer (as long as I didn't visit post-2014 conflict
| zones). (The Ukrainian ministry's email reply was along the
| lines of "Why are you asking us? Why would we care if you work
| remotely as a tourist, as long as you aren't doing any labor
| that requires a presence in Ukraine?") I worked from Kiev for a
| couple of months after a couple of high-level approvals.
|
| Here's hoping more countries adopt digital nomad-friendly work
| visas. Lots of countries currently turn a blind eye, but it's
| much better to have everything explicit and above-board.
| ghaff wrote:
| I'm guessing most employers who wouldn't be fine with
| employees working in another country on a tourist visa for a
| few months also wouldn't be OK with them doing so on a work
| visa at least without lots of paperwork and approvals.
|
| Of course, people who don't require special business visas to
| enter a country for, say, an event routinely do work when
| traveling in many cases. I've never done months at a time but
| I've certainly had ~1 month trips in Europe that were some
| combination of business and pleasure.
| [deleted]
| jyscao wrote:
| I suppose it also allows one to stay for >90 days (but <=180
| days) if one so inclines.
|
| Personally, having yet to visit Iceland, and hearing from
| friends who have that it's not the cheapest place, plus its
| northernly latitude, 90 days for me to first scout it out is
| more than enough for me.
| ghaff wrote:
| I would guess that there isn't a lot of overlap between "90
| days isn't nearly enough" and "no interest in this being an
| open-ended sort of thing" people.
| devoutsalsa wrote:
| I'd guess it also doesn't as staying in the Schengen area (aka
| free movement area the includes most of Europe, including
| Iceland). An American visiting as a "tourist" can't spend
| consecutive 90 days in Iceland & then hop over to Spain, as
| that could take them over the 90 day Schengen visit limitation.
|
| https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/
| cm2012 wrote:
| Iceland is such a beautiful country. I loved my visit there. I
| long for the day energy is cheap and clean enough everywhere that
| we can have hot tubs and pools in every town in every country
| like in Iceland.
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