[HN Gopher] I Would Love to Have Enough Time and Money to Go to ...
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I Would Love to Have Enough Time and Money to Go to an Office to
Work All Day
Author : jensgk
Score : 60 points
Date : 2023-03-27 21:03 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (slate.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (slate.com)
| Overtonwindow wrote:
| I'm not sure if my situation is a little different as I work for
| a government contractor. Our WFH situation is now a voluntary
| hybrid system. If you have a certain level of seniority, or time
| at the company, you can WFH. They only ask us to come into the
| office twice a month.
|
| While I like working from home in general I tend to find it
| utterly boring, and go into the office at least one day a week. I
| find it easier to maintain relationships and stay up to date on
| projects by talking, and in person works best for me.
| IlPeach wrote:
| The way this was "sold" at my workplace by the CEO reads exactly
| the same as whichever top executive I've been reading recently
| since this whole "back to the office push" started. A sad script
| fed to the masses to justify maintaining the status quo for as
| long as possible. Because people are seriously stupid.
| rhaway84773 wrote:
| Without talking about WFH vs RTO, I have to comment about the
| "commute" and the attitudes towards it.
|
| Every article discussing this issue imagines the commute to be a
| static, never changing situation as if it were a law of nature.
|
| IOW, even the idea of maybe improving transportation, and
| housing, so that people can live close to where offices would be
| located and/or improve transportation options so your commute
| isn't a 30 min drive if you're lucky, but could also be a
| comfortable and safe bike ride, easy bus transportation in a
| dedicated lane, or clean and modern subways, isn't even
| considered.
|
| The real tragedy isn't WFH vs RTO. The real tragedy is that
| Americans have built a country where stepping out of your home
| once a day is a miserable chore to be avoided at all costs if
| possible.
| tremon wrote:
| _stepping out of your home once a day is a miserable chore_
|
| You mean stepping out of your home early in the morning, and
| not returning to your home until dusk?
|
| I step out of my home at least four times each day, and I love
| it.
| philwelch wrote:
| * * *
| kyleyeats wrote:
| _in other words_
| techsupporter wrote:
| > The real tragedy is that Americans have built a country where
| stepping out of your home once a day is a miserable chore to be
| avoided at all costs if possible.
|
| This is exactly it for me. The job I've held for many years is
| in Seattle's city limits and my family has lived in Seattle for
| even longer. I intentionally looked for a job here because I
| gave up driving years ago, as did my wife. My children have
| never learned to drive or have a license.
|
| Meanwhile, many of my colleagues have moved to Auburn or Kent
| or Edmonds or Snohomish, insisting that it's not possible to
| raise a child in the city (my kids would beg to disagree) or
| seeking the "American Dream" of a standalone house. But every
| single one of them complained about the hours of their lives
| they were giving away in exchange for that.
|
| I think it's fine to build transit to the suburbs. It doesn't
| have to be light rail, though there's a well-known rail bias,
| but we've proven that frequent express buses from regional
| centers can work. Commuting is a drag, that's why I don't do
| it.
|
| (My employer also went to open plan spaces for technical and
| administrative staff before the pandemic. As we are a medical
| group, doctors still had their own doors, of course. Now, we
| have sold one office building and given up the lease on
| another. Technical and admin staff are fully remote but can use
| a company-paid WeWork account if we like. Medical staff are in
| the remaining office building and our patient care locations.)
| Arainach wrote:
| >we've proven that frequent express buses from regional
| centers can work
|
| Who's "we"? Seattle's express busses, at least outside the
| downtown core, have been a joke for a long time. Every half
| hour at absolute peak for ST routes like the 545/522 and
| stopping hours before bars and nightlife close so good luck
| getting home.
|
| Admittedly they were better than the awful suburban
| alternatives - for a long time the fastest bus route from my
| eastside house to Microsoft was to take one express bus 45-60
| minutes to downtown Seattle and another one 30-45 minutes
| east to Redmond because the other north/south connections are
| that bad. I wouldn't call that proof that they can work.
|
| And of course that's ignoring the current light rail split.
| If you don't want to go somewhere directly on the light rail
| line (let's say South Lake Union, since we're commuting) you
| could previously take an bus from Woodinville, Kirkland, or
| Redmond into downtown Seattle and with a single transfer get
| where you want to go.
|
| Post-light rail good luck. The 522 will drop you off in
| Northgate, where you can walk a few blocks to light rail,
| ride a few stops, walk a few more blocks, and catch another
| bus. 1h43min with 2 transfers at peak commuting hours or a
| 28min drive. If that's success I hope never to see failure.
| fnordpiglet wrote:
| Once the passions cool and boards realize they could juice EPS by
| $0.02/share by closing the offices the debate will be over and
| those that can will be working from home. All data points to
| increased or equivalent productivity, and "office culture" is not
| a fiduciary duty, but maximizing shareholder value is.
| cpeterso wrote:
| Good point: to a board that sees everything through a lense of
| shareholder value, cost savings from closing an office are
| quantifiable but "increased productivity and innovation" from
| RTO is not.
| i-use-nixos-btw wrote:
| There's another aspect of this, one which has been an issue for
| centuries and an extreme issue for decades: location.
|
| Many cities formed as a result of useful geography. In the UK, at
| least, that reason is often water-based transport. These
| locations meant that large scale transport of goods was
| practical, as well as the ability to have all of the resources
| necessary to sustain large populations in those areas.
|
| In the modern day, at least in the UK, cities are much less
| practical. Getting anywhere in them is a pain - road links are
| too busy, rail is extortionate and over-subscribed. And why are
| they so busy and expensive? Because everyone has to do it. Why?
| Because that's where the high paying companies are. Why? Because
| the way it has always been done. Why? Because... the place has
| links to good waterways?
|
| And what do you do when you get there? The same damn thing you'd
| do at home, but in a noisier and less comfortable environment.
| You can speak to the same people you could huddle with in Slack,
| except there's no mute button.
|
| Like many on here, because we have a certain affinity for the
| tech sector, I have ADHD. I am extremely productive when I'm in
| an environment that allows me to shut out everything else and
| focus on what I need to do. Working from home unleashed a level
| of productivity I wasn't aware that I was capable of, and once
| you've got that buzz - you aren't going to let go of it without
| resistance.
| Zetice wrote:
| [flagged]
| happytoexplain wrote:
| I don't want children, but I understand that societal systems
| correctly value children (both emotionally and shrewdly) more
| than other costly choices, like hobbies or professional
| ambitions. I happily pay the portion of my taxes that go to
| supporting children and child-having (directly or indirectly).
| ggfdgfwww wrote:
| having children is the default state of humans, society needs
| to optimize for that. not treat it as a bad decision with
| negative consequences.
| polotics wrote:
| This post of yours Zetice is absolutely hilarious. You are
| actually writing that an office worker, able to string along
| proper prose, with a wife who is also working, should consider
| themselves too poor to consider having children? What society
| do you want to be living in? Are you sure you would have been
| lucky enough to get anywhere, well first to even get to being
| born, in such a society?
| Zetice wrote:
| I just need to understand where personal responsibility fits
| into this conversation, and I don't really accept "nowhere".
| sudopluto wrote:
| yet aging countries are toying with the idea of subsidizing
| childcare? choosing to have children shouldn't be so heavily
| penalized, especially since it's a biological and (cultural, in
| many cases) imperative
| sshine wrote:
| > I just can't muster up the empathy he seems to be expecting.
|
| He isn't expecting empathy for having kids.
|
| He's making an equation that says:
|
| The cost of child care is so high that if you work from home
| and handle your children with flexible working hours, it is
| hard for him to find a job that requires him to be in the
| office and will compensate him the cost of child care he cannot
| perform himself.
|
| So even if in-office jobs paid more, it would unlikely be worth
| it to him.
|
| What he doesn't explicitly say is: He's got an incredible
| privilege. Not everyone has a skill or a negotiation ability
| that lets you pick a remote job always. So not only does he
| save the $40k per year in child care, he probably earns quite
| well on his remote job, compared to the national average who
| does need to show up at the office.
| Zetice wrote:
| The point I'm trying to make here is that it's very possible
| the answer to the question of, "Why is my life so difficult?"
| to be, "Ten years ago you made a really bad choice for you
| and there's no real way around that."
|
| That choice, for may, could be the choice to have children,
| deciding to stay in a HCOL area, going to college
| (specifically taking out loans to do so) etc.
|
| SVB made "safe" bets on 10 yr T notes and it ended up being
| wrong. Individuals making "safe" bets on getting married,
| going to college, having kids, may also be making bad life
| choices for them. I think at least we should have that
| conversation...
| happytoexplain wrote:
| The word "could" is doing too much heavy lifting here. It
| doesn't justify the application to this specific case.
| Zetice wrote:
| Right, I don't know it to be the case, but I think we
| ought to consider the idea that "have kids" is not the
| answer for everyone.
| Clubber wrote:
| >Rattner writes that he thinks virtual commuters have "gone soft"
| and quotes JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon as stating that the
| remote option appeals to individuals who don't want to "hustle"
| as much as they should.
|
| Honestly, Americans are getting hard. They were soft when they
| allowed themselves to be pushed around, jobs outsourced, sign 4
| year non-competes and non-disparage agreements, and put up with
| crappy bosses with no cost of living increases, and sexually
| harassed in the office by their boss.
|
| The marketplace is talking, are you listening? Nope.
|
| Oh and Jamie Dimon, looking for some more bailouts? I guess by
| hustle you mean begging to CYA.
|
| >Americans' "work ethic" is lacking, Rattner says, especially in
| comparison to that of the Chinese, which he describes as
| "extraordinary." (Rattner did not respond to a request, passed to
| him through the Times, to discuss his piece.)
|
| You mean the workers that are practically forced labor? Good one.
| I'll bet you'd love to go back to the good ole slave days, huh?
| Maybe corporations shouldn't have given away all their IP to make
| a buck, we wouldn't be in the situation we are in with the supply
| chain. Keep up that hustle.
|
| Nope, corporations got worse and worse, paid less and less
| compared to the cost of living, and people finally had enough. I
| think that's what's happening. The ones that allow work from home
| will have a much higher chance of survival than the ones that buy
| your rhetoric.
|
| I'll bet people will be more willing to go back if they had their
| own offices instead of the travesty that is "open office."
| "Better for communication!" Ya right. Do that and maybe you'll
| get some bites.
|
| Anyway, working at home and loving it.
| mxkopy wrote:
| > the remote option appeals to individuals who don't want to
| "hustle" as much as they should. Americans' "work ethic" is
| lacking
|
| It's desperation. Americans are lacking the desperation necessary
| to endure unnatural commutes and spaces. What these 'people' want
| are more desperate workers.
| Arrath wrote:
| Management will find my work ethic is perfectly suitable to the
| work at hand, my ethic just scales in response to my
| compensation.
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(page generated 2023-03-27 23:01 UTC)