[HN Gopher] An Open-Source Espresso
___________________________________________________________________
An Open-Source Espresso
Author : lxm
Score : 125 points
Date : 2023-03-26 23:12 UTC (23 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (hackaday.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (hackaday.com)
| amelius wrote:
| I can't handle coffee anymore :(
|
| Please invent a drink that is like it but not as toxic.
| all2 wrote:
| You might enjoy matcha (especially with toasted rice in it), or
| ground and brewed cacao nibs. Both are earthy, a tad bit
| bitter, and very delicious.
| yeswecatan wrote:
| Yerba mate as well
| diego_moita wrote:
| It also contains caffeine.
|
| Depending on the variety and if it comes from male plants
| it can have almost as much as coffee.
| LesZedCB wrote:
| This is a relevant watch by James Hoffmann on how open source
| espresso machines kinda turned into Decent Espresso. (edit: ok,
| on rewatch i guess it wasn't open source, it was kickstarter,
| however philosophy was the similar - use off-the-shelf components
| and software)
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKA2COJRt6M
|
| For what it's worth, i've had a Decent DE1+ for about 2 years,
| and while it's very unlikely i'll change, i am excited to see
| what other options crop up in the coming years. for me
| personally, there is no competition, mainly from a quick-to-heat
| and pressure/flow profiling perspective, both of which are quite
| important to me.
|
| my understanding is the hardware side for accurate flow-profiling
| really is quite hard with off-the-shelf components, so the open
| source espresso machine is unlikely to become a widely available
| commodity, unlike say 3d printers which can easily be homebrewed
| and work amazingly well.
| ackfoobar wrote:
| This reminds me of the story of ZPM. It tried to use off-the-
| shelf components and custom software to make it work well.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKA2COJRt6M
|
| The world of atoms is so much harder than the world of bits.
| sho_hn wrote:
| The hardest part of hardware is mass production and support.
| For a lot of things doing a good one-off is merely expensive
| and time-intensive, but great as a hobby. That's why a lot of
| DIY efforts are super impressive and have satisfying results,
| even if you could never scale and productize them.
| buildbot wrote:
| Right, my theoretical one off hacked espresso machine might
| be perfect, but requires troubleshooting or programming
| skills or soldering to keep it working perfect - pretty much
| a no go for most consumers.
| mongol wrote:
| In wonder how hard they tried, really. Feels like they more or
| less took the money and called it quits
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| Wow, this is so unfair to them. I followed the project with
| intense interest from day 1, and "Feels like they more or
| less took the money and called it quits" is total BS.
|
| To be clear, I think the original ZPM gang got in _waaaay_
| over their heads - one of the biggest problems is that the
| kickstarter was just far too successful: the ZPM team had to
| go from building a prototype to actually worrying about how
| they were going to manufacture these at a sizable scale. I
| think it 's totally fair to say they handled things quite
| poorly as it became clear they were struggling, and if I were
| a backer left with very little to show for it I'd probably be
| mad, too, but to say "they more or less took the money and
| called it quits" is not, at all, what happened.
| malermeister wrote:
| Seems like they tried pretty hard. Here's James Hoffman, the
| authoritative Internet Coffee Weirdo, reviewing a prototype:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKA2COJRt6M
| intrasight wrote:
| I'd say my stovetop espresso maker is pretty open-source. And has
| worked fine with no changes except new gaskets for 5 years now. I
| did just have to replace it with a steel one since I now have
| induction stovetops.
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| I don't consider what a moka pot makes to be "espresso", and
| neither do most coffee experts like SCAA.
| intrasight wrote:
| It's plenty strong for me. Wouldn't want it any stronger.
|
| I got it after using one in Italy for several days, and
| couldn't go back to drip.
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| I think that's a misconception about moka pot coffee vs. a
| well-made espresso. Espresso isn't really "stronger" than
| moka pot coffee. Moka pot coffee is actually brewed at a
| higher temperature, but a lower pressure, than espresso.
| Espresso temperature is not even boiling (200 F is a common
| temp), but under much higher pressure by means of an
| electric or manual lever pump (9 bar is the common
| definition).
|
| The result, to me at least, is that espresso has a much
| "thicker" mouth feel, but much less bitterness, than moka
| pot coffee.
| fellowmartian wrote:
| This is neat, but I wish we'd move from retrofitting Gaggia
| Classics to something more modern. Decent Espresso showed us that
| boiler machines for home use are a dead end, because they have
| too much thermal mass for rapid switching between brewing and
| steaming. This is why I initially considered buying a Gaggia and
| modding it, but ultimately got a Breville Infuser as it basically
| comes pre-modded and is thermocoil-based, so you can quickly
| switching to steaming. It's not the fastest steaming in the
| world, but I think it's actually good for beginners to learn how
| to steam on a slow machine.
| newsclues wrote:
| I hope this is more of a proof of concept.
|
| I think this is an example of part of the future of
| manufacturing.
|
| Some things will be built from COTS parts. Others will be built
| as custom one offs. Obviously there will be products made with
| a hybrid of methods of building things.
|
| But increasing there will be an industry of people taking
| products and modding or rebuilding them. From people who
| upgrade cars, to modding watches for a unique look. Or taking a
| common product like an expresso maker and make it open like
| this, which could end up creating a market for COTS parts
| instead of modding old products.
|
| As much as people are excited about 3D printing and high end
| technology for manufacturing, rebuilding and upgrading old junk
| has huge potential, as companies converting old cars into EVs
| have found.
| prpl wrote:
| Lelit is the counterpoint to that - I have a Lelit Elizabeth
| which, while expensive, is a fraction of what a Decent costs -
| So I'm not sure "don't use boilers" pans out.
| pnut wrote:
| Another vote for Lelit, I have an Anna PL41TEM with the PID
| controller, have made 2-3 perfect espressos every day, 7 days
| a week, since 2017 like clockwork.
|
| That's >4,000 shots and counting... A very solid piece of
| kit.
| mixedCase wrote:
| Yep, even the Lelit Bianca which is a dual-boiler and has
| both flow control and a pressure knob is still cheaper than
| the cheapest Decent despite the much more robust build.
| eirikbakke wrote:
| Switching from brewing to steaming takes about 4 minutes on a
| single-boiler Rancilio, during which I can prepare the rest of
| the breakfast or empty the dishwasher. For home use, this is
| very practical. Besides, a single boiler means less work to
| descale the machine, and fewer components that can break.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| eschneider wrote:
| I'll admit to being a complete heathen and warming milk in the
| microwave and frothing it with a $10 hand wand before pouring
| it over my moka pot brewed expression, but I'm happy with my
| coffee.
| nicolaslem wrote:
| > Decent Espresso showed us that boiler machines for home use
| are a dead end.
|
| Do you mean single boiler machines? Many home machines have no
| problem switching because they just use two boilers, one for
| brewing and one for steaming.
| horsawlarway wrote:
| Yeah, double boiler is very, very worth it IMO.
|
| Our machine has a 300ml boiler for brewing the shot, and a 1
| liter boiler for the steam wand and hot water wand, and it's
| great.
|
| I can pull shots quickly after turning the machine on because
| the 300ml boiler heats up fast. Steaming takes a few minutes
| to heat up, but once there it'll keep going for a long time,
| and I can keep pulling shots at the right temp in the mean
| time.
|
| Way happier with the double boiler machine than I was with
| the single boiler we used to use. Much less planning required
| for my own use and I can actually serve several guests a nice
| espresso/latte/cappuccino from the machine in a reasonable
| time.
| nicolaslem wrote:
| I agree, having the two parts of the machine working
| independently from each other makes a big difference even
| at home.
|
| Dual boilers are more common but the same concept applies
| to machines with dual thermocoils, like the one I picked.
| fatnoah wrote:
| Jumping on the double-boiler fan train. My family likes
| lattes and I like espressos. I make them one at a time, and
| it's nice to go from pulling the shot, to steam, next shot
| & steam, etc.
| nullityrofl wrote:
| Dual boiler machines have been a perfectly fine solution to
| this problem for a very, very long time.
|
| Decent's offering is good but vastly overcomplicated for the
| majority of people who don't want a tablet on their coffee
| machine in their kitchen. I much prefer the tactile experience
| of using a traditional espresso machine.
| stouset wrote:
| You could also use a single boiler (which are better at
| temperature regulation) for espresso pulls and a thermoblock
| for steam.
|
| That said, boilers are pretty niche for home use. In order to
| maintain good thermal regulation you need a decent sized mass
| of water. That means a long time to preheat and a lot of
| wasted energy.
|
| This isn't a dealbreaker for some, but for a casual consumer
| who pulls one or two shots per day, it's pretty lacking in
| convenience.
| esperent wrote:
| > Dual boiler machines have been a perfectly fine solution to
| this problem for a very, very long time.
|
| A fine, but expensive and mechanically complex solution. Dual
| boiler machines generally cost thousands even for small home
| machines. Commercial dual boiler machines will set you back
| at least $10-30k, easily.
|
| Besides that, there's the warm up time. Often 30+ minutes on
| a commercial machine, then the electricity cost of keeping
| several litres of water and heavy blocks of metal at boiling
| point too.
|
| It's high time espresso machines got a mechanicals simpler,
| cheaper, more environmentally friendly update. On the home
| front, Breville and Decent are doing this, while commercially
| I think some Ascaso machines use the same tech as Decent (not
| 100% sure on that though and when I reached out to them about
| it when considering one of their machines they just told me
| "work with your local dealer". There's exactly one Ascaso
| dealer in the country and they don't speak English so that
| wasn't much help).
|
| Not to dismiss dual boilers or even good heat exchangers.
| Both of them are beautiful technological designs. But they
| basically haven't changed since the sixties.
| nullityrofl wrote:
| > A fine, but expensive and mechanically complex solution
|
| I'm not sure I agree that they're mechanically complex.
| They're engineering 101. A pump, a heater and a thermostat.
| They're rather mechanically simple.
|
| > Dual boiler machines generally cost thousands even for
| small home machines.
|
| The _cheapest_ Decent is $3500.
|
| > Commercial dual boiler machines will set you back at
| least $10-30k, easily.
|
| You don't need a $10k-$30k machine to get a competent dual
| boiler. If you look at something like a Lelit Bianca, a
| dual boiler with preinfusion and flow control while $500
| cheaper than the cheapest Decent, you can pull your first
| shot in 10 minutes. A home brewer making espresso on a
| Bianca isn't going to notice the difference on a $10k or
| $30k machine because at that price point what you're paying
| for isn't the ability to pull a shot, it's the ability to
| pull thousands of them every day of the year.
|
| > But they basically haven't changed since the sixties.
|
| That's true but I argue they don't need to. We don't need
| to iterate on everything. Technology doesn't always make
| things better.
| esperent wrote:
| > You don't need a $10k-$30k machine to get a competent
| dual boiler
|
| Commercially, you do (I own a small cafe chain so I can
| claim some knowledge here). The Lelit Bianca is a
| beautiful home machine but you can't use it commercially
| - first of all, due to safety certs (not sure about the
| Bianca specifically but most small home machines don't
| have commercial certs). But also because it just isn't
| built to handle a morning rush of customers. I don't
| think you could make more than 10 or so lattes in a row
| before it would lose steam.
|
| > I'm not sure I agree that they're mechanically complex.
| They're engineering 101. A pump, a heater and a
| thermostat. They're rather mechanically simple
|
| I think that list is missing a _few_ of the components
| that make up an espresso machine :)
|
| https://66.media.tumblr.com/2a1cfb37655e5ddc1dfa820b15eef
| ca9...
|
| But nonetheless I agree, there are far more complex
| machines in regular use. My complaints are more about
| warm up time, hard limits on how many coffees you can
| serve in a row, and electricity use.
|
| > That's true but I argue they don't need to. We don't
| need to iterate on everything. Technology doesn't always
| make things better.
|
| I partially agree with this but again, from a commercial
| perspective I guess I have different goals. Actually at
| home I use a Flair 58 manual lever machine and a hand
| grinder. Beautifully simple and I could heat water using
| a wood fire and make it work.
|
| But commercially, I want the tech I use to improve. I
| want better efficiency, better reliability, and lower
| energy use. I don't have the numbers for our yearly
| electric bill just from the coffee machine, but it's a
| lot and a good chunk of the day it just sits there
| reheating water over and over.
|
| It's the same as saying you should never need to upgrade
| your work laptop. Wasn't the 720p screen you had in 2005
| perfectly adequate? Why do you need more than 1gb RAM?
| roflyear wrote:
| Decent has awful software, and the owner is also kind of a
| backwards-thinking stuck up dude, so...
| malermeister wrote:
| Could you share more details on the owner?
| LesZedCB wrote:
| most of the bad stuff is interpersonal drama caused by
| the fact that John (Decent Owner) is fully committed to
| TCL for app and firmware development.
|
| some prominent community members have rewritten a lot of
| the front end using python and JS.
|
| when disagreements and call outs arose between this group
| and the owner, well, access to the company Basecamp is
| controlled by the owners. there are big personalities all
| around.
|
| as somebody who enjoys a bit of the popcorn but is
| uninvested in the outcome, it's not a big deal as a
| consumer of the machine. if you want to hack on the
| software, his personality is probably going to affect you
| a little more.
|
| of course, somebody else may step in to give a different
| historical account.
| mometsi wrote:
| No, and I do not even know him, but it irritates me to
| hear him everywhere called 'the Decent'.
| WastingMyTime89 wrote:
| > Decent Espresso showed us that boiler machines for home use
| are a dead end, because they have too much thermal mass for
| rapid switching between brewing and steaming.
|
| I will hasard that most espresso machine owners are like me,
| just like espresso and never steam. I can count on one hand the
| number of time I used my Silvia steam wand in the past five
| years.
|
| I think regular milk drinks are mostly an American thing.
| klausa wrote:
| I would be very surprised if that was the case; you'd see
| much more machines out there that omit the steaming wand
| entirely.
|
| While _I_ mostly drink espressos when making coffee for
| myself, I think overall I made more flat whites for my wife
| and any friends that come over, then I did shots just for
| myself on my machine.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| If you have two machines with very similar price and
| quality, but one was espresso-only, and the other had a
| steamer, what do you think the people that only drink
| espressos would buy?
|
| Zero marginal cost features have some very unusual
| economics.
| dkasper wrote:
| Absolutely not. Lattes and cappuccinos were invented in Italy
| after all.
| mastazi wrote:
| > Lattes and cappuccinos were invented in Italy
|
| This is a commonly held belief, I'm Italian and I would
| like to clarify a bit.
|
| - I have worked at a bar (1) in Italy and more than 90% of
| the coffee drinks ordered during any given day were single
| shot espressos. Cappuccino orders however were not uncommon
| in the morning.
|
| - Cappuccino was invented in Austria, however it was
| popularised in Italy and it still is very popular to this
| day. It is consumed only in the first half of the morning,
| for the rest of the day Italians prefer to drink
| exclusively espresso shots.
|
| - The drink that is known in the Anglosphere as "latte"
| doesn't really exist in Italy except in some touristy
| areas, normally, if you ask for a "latte" in an Italian
| bar, they'll give you a glass of milk.
|
| We have however two drinks that are similar to what you
| call "latte":
|
| - Caffe latte, which is similar to the French cafe au lait
| but the coffee is made in a moka pot. This is usually
| consumed at home.
|
| - In bars you can order a "latte macchiato" which is
| similar to what you call "latte" but the coffee is added at
| the end, on top of the milk, and it is much weaker than a
| latte (this is reflected by the name "latte macchiato"
| which means "stained milk" i.e. all milk with just a dash
| of coffee).
|
| PS Latte macchiato is not to be confused with caffe
| macchiato which is what is known internationally simply as
| "macchiato" i.e. almost all coffee with just a dash of
| milk.
|
| (1) An Italian "bar" roughly corresponds to what English
| speaking people refer to as "cafe" although it will also
| serve alcoholic drinks. Actual cafes are not popular in
| Italy and they are only found in touristy spots.
| cpach wrote:
| So far I've only visited Italy once, but your account
| rhymes well with what I've read about Italian coffee
| culture.
|
| One thing I'm curious about:
|
| Is ristretto and lungo popular in Italy? Or is that also
| mostly for tourist spots?
| boomskats wrote:
| In case you're looking for advice: I went from being a daily
| HX machine (rocket) user to a Cafelat Robot at the beginning
| of the pandemic & haven't looked back. It has zero warm-up
| time and I make better espresso with it more consistently
| than I ever could with the e61.
|
| I'm not sure I agree with you about 'most espresso machine
| owners', but if you do only care about the spro, I can highly
| recommend the manual approach.
| ace2358 wrote:
| Hello from Australia! Not only are most coffee orders with
| milk, Aussies drink a load of milk at home. Like I used to
| easily smash a litre of milk a day (cereal, coffee, tea, just
| drinking it from the fridge).
|
| I now don't drink milk at all and have black coffee at home
| and out and I am not the norm.
| crazygringo wrote:
| I use the steam wand every single morning. It's a cappuccino
| to start the day, then regular espresso after that.
|
| Cappuccinos are quite popular at breakfast in Italy, which is
| where espresso is from. I don't know what makes you think it
| has anything to do with America.
| valarauko wrote:
| Context of the comment was in modding machines. Are modders
| more likely to be American or Italian?
| carlob wrote:
| These 5k espresso machines (or a DYI project where you
| spend the equivalent in time) don't really make sense in
| a country where an average salary is 1.5k and the average
| coffee is 1.
| inasio wrote:
| I've been meaning to upgrade from a Breville Bambino, but key
| for me is a machine I can turn on and brew coffee right away on
| a whim (small footprint would also be nice), but I haven't
| found any options between the Brevilles and the Decent.
| cjrp wrote:
| I have my Gaggia Classic connected to a smart plug. Okay,
| it's not _instant_, but I can decide I want a coffee, turn on
| the machine from my phone and it'll be heated by the time I
| go and make it.
| inasio wrote:
| I know this is how many people do it, it strikes me as
| surprising that you don't need this compromise at the very
| low end (Breville Bambino), nor at the high end (Decent),
| but there's nothing in between
| roflyear wrote:
| Have you seen: https://meticuloushome.com/ seems to be what
| you're looking for. Not on market yet.
| boomskats wrote:
| Not for another couple of days!
| naet wrote:
| I've been wanting an Espresso machine recently but it seems like
| they're a lot more expensive than I hoped for a decent one. I was
| spoiled by the one my Italian American parents had that was very
| nice but probably cost them a pretty penny to buy. It was a
| beautiful old metal machine with none of the digital bells and
| whistles that seem to plague the newer machines.
|
| Sometimes I use my moka pot which isn't the same but still
| produces very nice coffee when used right.
| binarymax wrote:
| We were given a Capresso 117.05 as a gift and it's a really
| great entry level espresso machine for the price (which I just
| looked up).
|
| I was actually surprised how well it worked, even with a cheap
| palm grinder.
| stouset wrote:
| Yeah, it's definitely not cheap to get into home espresso if
| you want any level of control and consistency to the process.
|
| I got a Bambino Plus, which I'm generally happy with. There are
| some flaws, but for "only" $500 it's a pretty competitive
| machine for my use-case. Unfortunately that's where the costs
| _begin_ , not end. Generally "necessary" upgrades include a
| non-pressurized filter basket ($20), a bottomless portafilter
| so you can observe your pulls and make adjustments ($50), and a
| coffee distributor which will help significantly with
| consistent pulls on a consumer-grade machine ($50). You'll also
| need a scale ($50).
|
| And now you need an espresso-capable grinder. A lot of people
| use a Baratza Encore ($150), but the stepped grind-size
| adjustments can render it impossible to dial in correctly. For
| a continuous-adjustment grinder you're talking at least $500.
| There are very good hand grinders you could use instead for
| $100-$200, but grinding espresso shots by hand every time gets
| old fast.
|
| All in all with taxes, you're talking a _minimum_ of around
| $750 for a bare-bones setup that will have a lot of frustration
| and difficultly with consistency to about $1,250 for a more
| recommended setup that will have you repeatedly pulling decent
| shots.
|
| Obviously I'm being a bit loose with the definition of "bare-
| bones", as plenty of people are happy with a Bambino ($350) and
| a cheap grinder ($50). But this is what I think would be the
| definition someone who prefers third-wave specialty coffee
| would use as a competitive alternative to going to their local
| coffee shop.
| fatnoah wrote:
| FWIW, I have a fancier machine, but don't have any of that
| optional equipment. I have a decent and consistent burr
| grinder, but other than that my optional equipment is the
| tamper and a toothpick for distribution. This is mostly
| because the biggest variable I seem to deal with is bean
| quality and age, and the only way I've really been able to
| get consistent results is purely by feel based on how the
| beans look in the filter basket after grinding and a quick
| stir with the toothpick. The result is that I generally get
| the shot spot-on about 9/10 times. As for the 10th, an iffy
| shot can be turned into a decent latte. ;)
|
| In any case, I think all of the extra equipment definitely
| helps with consistency, but I think one can get good results
| with practice without all of the extras. At the very least,
| one could work their way up to that point.
| stouset wrote:
| Surely you have a scale :) And if you have a fancier
| machine, I'm guessing you have a non-pressurized filter
| basket as well. At that point you're (I think) only
| skipping the distributor and the bottomless portafilter.
| anon84873628 wrote:
| FWIW I think the Flair brand offers the best price performance
| for entry level espresso. It takes more practice to get a
| consistent shot, but it can definitely make good coffee. There
| are now many good hand grinders that can do espresso grind for
| less than $200. Then you just need a kettle.
|
| The Wacoco products also make a solid shot, but they are even
| more inconvenient for home use.
| klausa wrote:
| Of all the things that I could possibly think of "making a DYI
| version of would be fun", a machine that has ~0.5-1.5 liters of
| boiling water at significant pressures is on the very very very
| end.
|
| Hats off to you if you feel comfortable with that, but I wouldn't
| want to be in the same _room_ as that thing.
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| Water under significant pressure is not really that big of a
| deal. It is largely incompressible, so if there is a leak, it
| just, well, leaks. Sure, it can spray, but even then I've been
| hit with hot water from my espresso machine and while it was
| temporarily painful it didn't burn me.
|
| Air or steam, on the other hand, is a different story - steam
| boilers obviously can fail explosively. The pictures of the
| machine makes it look like it has a steam wand but I think
| that's just because he salvaged an old boiler - I don't think
| he's actually bringing up the temperature in the boiler high
| enough to make it a steam boiler.
| quijoteuniv wrote:
| What kind of pressure are we taking about? This project would
| definetely benefit with chating with a barista and understanding
| the principle of brewing a coffe shot, or working/getting
| experience with a professional machine. Personally i think the
| best you can get at home (unless you can afford a pro machine) is
| aeropress. Dead serious
| pmarcelll wrote:
| Pressure is not an issue since a vibratory pump in the most
| basic espresso machine can produce 15 bar of pressure quite
| easily. In fact, manufacturers have to put an overpressure
| valve in their machines to limit maximum pressure to the
| optimal 9 bar.
|
| Also, this project is about sophisticated temperature and
| pressure/flow control, something even many/most professional
| machines simply can't do. So I really don't think the person
| who built this machine lacks experience in brewing coffee.
| andrewxdiamond wrote:
| Pressure is resistance to flow. In the aeropress, the coffee
| and the plastic filter screen resist flow and thus create
| pressure.
|
| Not very much pressure, but there is pressure
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| Espresso is typically made with 9 bar of pressure.
|
| An aeropress doesn't actually generate any pressure. It just
| moves a column of water through a puck of coffee like a
| percolator. You can buy some special add-ons for the aeropress
| that cause it to build pressure but it's really just for
| generating more foamy/crema brew and not getting a proper
| espresso shot out of it. All that said the aeropress is still
| awesome and a great way to brew coffee, it's just not going to
| replicate espresso shots.
| BlandDuck wrote:
| About the Aeropress, I guess the question is: When I press it
| down (in my case, using the elbow for added pressure) how
| many bars can a typical user reach?
| anon84873628 wrote:
| Maybe 1 bar. You need a big lever or pump to get more than
| that. Check out the Flair or Wacoco brands if you want
| entry level manual espresso.
| DoubleFree wrote:
| Let's do a little calculation. For an upper bound, let's
| say you press your full weight onto it and the coffee
| grounds' resistance is not the limiting factor. That's
| maybe 90kg, times the acceleration of gravity, for about
| 900 newtons. That force is applied to a pi*(30mm)^2 or
| ~3^-3 m^2 area. That gives us a pressure of 900/3e-3 = 3e5
| Pa or 3 bars.
| valarauko wrote:
| Hoffmann measured this with a pressure sensor modded
| aeropress - most typical brews would not exceed half a
| bar.
| klausa wrote:
| Getting over 1 bar gets you to a spray of coffee that
| sprays everywhere: https://youtu.be/Qz_GZpzpst4?t=500
| valarauko wrote:
| James Hoffmann answered this with a modded aeropress with a
| pressure sensor: a typical aeropress brew is in the range
| of half a bar. The max he could achieve was 1.5 bars, but
| like he says, no one brews like that. He also found
| anything past 0.5 bars began to taste awful.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBXm8fCWdo8
| quijoteuniv wrote:
| No. The aim of the aeropress is good extraction , not
| foam/cream. And i doubt you get 9 bars from that thing in the
| photo. Therefore i suggest an aeropress (and learn about
| extraction and taste) instead of building a machine without
| understanding the principle of brewing a shot. For which you
| need a ceramic grinder by the way. But do not get me wrong, i
| am all for open source and building things. It might not be
| about coffee though.
| anon84873628 wrote:
| What? The way you are responding to qbasic doesn't make
| sense.
|
| Their point was simply that the high pressure attachment
| only creates the superficial appearance of crema, not
| actual espresso.
| klausa wrote:
| Almost nobody is using ceramic burrs. All the top grinders
| you see in people's homes and most cafes will be using
| steel burrs.
|
| Your EK43's, Mythos Ones, EG-1s etc have steel burrs.
| falsenapkin wrote:
| How do you know this person hasn't had plenty of relevant
| experience? And no hard disagree on aeropress. You can make
| great espresso at the correct temperature/pressure with non-pro
| machines. I make a few a week with a Flair Pro 2 and they're
| very consistent. Like <$700 for lever+grinder+kettle. I also
| have an aeropress and it's fine but they make different drinks.
| ladberg wrote:
| Hah, I clicked expecting an open source version of Apple's on-
| device ML runtime.
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