[HN Gopher] DVDStyler is a cross-platform free DVD authoring app...
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       DVDStyler is a cross-platform free DVD authoring application (2021)
        
       Author : brudgers
       Score  : 102 points
       Date   : 2023-03-25 14:00 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.dvdstyler.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.dvdstyler.org)
        
       | anthk wrote:
       | I'l read it later, after setting up KDE3 to the theme I like and
       | finishing up some Slashdot threads.
        
       | kypro wrote:
       | Man, I used to burn random DVDs for friends and family all the
       | time back in the 00s. I don't remember if this is the software I
       | used to make the menus, but it looked a lot like this.
       | 
       | I also brought some DVD labels too so I could make and print my
       | own labels and stick them on the back of the DVDs I made.
       | 
       | Never did this for illegal stuff as far as I remember, but for
       | videos I made for friends and family it was a fun way to share
       | stuff back before we had super fast internet and simple file
       | sharing tools.
       | 
       | I think the last DVD I burnt was in 2013. I sent it with a letter
       | to my girlfriend while she was traveling. That may have been the
       | last time I used a disc.
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | DVDStyler is from 2004. See changelog for details:
       | https://sourceforge.net/p/dvdstyler/DVDStyler/ci/master/tree...
        
       | jszymborski wrote:
       | I remember using DVDFlick[0] to author DVDs for ages before I
       | found DVDStyler. DVDFlick was written in vb6 if I recall and was
       | glacially slow. But it was totally free and that was hard to come
       | by at the time (or at least for pre-teen me)
       | 
       | [0] https://dvdflick.net/
        
       | dylan604 wrote:
       | We used to program DVD like QT movie experiences. You used to be
       | able to program Flash buttons and switch between QT
       | streams/tracks within the file. We were building multi-angle
       | videos that would switch with buttons overlaid onto the screen.
       | Switching audio streams, subtitles, etc were all possible. We'd
       | compress down to MP4s for online distribution. This was well
       | before streaming as we know it now. I think the term of art back
       | then was progressive downloading. If you can find the old BMW
       | series with Clive Owen, they were pretty good. You can probably
       | find the videos on YT or whatever, but finding the actual QT MOV
       | files would be the better example of showing how these were
       | similar to a DVD experience
       | 
       | With download speeds of today, that still seems like a viable
       | format and I was always saddened that it didn't take off.
       | Obviously, Flash being involved would be an issue today. However,
       | there was another package that came out in the early 2000s that
       | was its own interactive authoring package that did the same thing
       | only without Flash. We worked with the developer generating some
       | content for them to use and it worked well enough. It was all
       | within the MP4 spec, but again, it just never took off. Our test
       | content had 3 separate videos that if watched individually all
       | told a story. There were 3 characters that appeared in each video
       | at various times. However, the interactivity of the format would
       | allow you to switch which stream you were watching to follow one
       | character between videos which would tell a different story than
       | just watching them all.
       | 
       | All of that old guy shares unrelated story to say that I think
       | this kind of format would still be cool vs DVDs. But seeing it's
       | the older generation that finds the ease of a physical DVD vs
       | using a computer makes it understandable why a cheap authoring
       | package like this might still find use
        
         | lloydatkinson wrote:
         | Netlify has something similar, interactive episodes of a show
         | where the viewer selects what should happen next.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | That's interesting as that is not what my understanding of
           | what Netlify did/does. Do they have their own content arm as
           | well?
        
             | throwanem wrote:
             | I think they meant Netflix, which built the described
             | functionality for (iirc) the Black Mirror episode
             | "Bandersnatch". It was interesting thematically and
             | narratively, but seemed like more of a clever one-off than
             | the kind of capability anyone would be anxious to produce
             | for; I don't know that it _didn 't_ go anywhere since that
             | was also around when I quit bothering to renew a
             | subscription I barely used, but my sense is that it sank
             | more or less without a trace.
        
       | wingerlang wrote:
       | Interesting how consistently active the forum seems, going from
       | 2004 until today.
        
       | illwrks wrote:
       | To add a positive spin on this ancient software, over COVID
       | several elderly relatives passed away either due to age or I'll
       | health.
       | 
       | Due to COVID you couldn't attend but there were live streams of
       | the services, I used ffmpeg, or YouTube-dl or plain old screen
       | recording with an audio patch to record their funeral services.
       | 
       | I then used the dvdstyler to turn those recordings into DVD's
       | which I posted to relatives who were not tech savvy.
       | 
       | It took time but provided closure and in a weird way a
       | therapeutic.
       | 
       | +1 for dvdstyler.
        
         | spookie wrote:
         | My condolences. These have not been kind years.
        
       | nirav72 wrote:
       | I remember when I first bought a DVD burner back in 1997. Did lot
       | of looking around for a affordable consumer level DVD authoring
       | tool that would let me create custom menus and chapter points. At
       | the time, there wasn't anything free or cheap. Other than getting
       | it from a warez scene at the time. Even those were professional
       | grade tools that had a huge learning curve.
        
       | paradox460 wrote:
       | This reopened an old wound, what Apple did to DVD Studio Pro. It
       | withered and died with the rest of Apple's pro software suite,
       | and has nothing to replace it. I heard that FCPX can author DVDs,
       | but they're pretty bare-bones and ugly. DVD Studio Pro was
       | powerful enough you could author professional content pretty
       | easily. Had pretty comprehensive programming tools, and was a lot
       | easier to use than Adobe Encore
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | I remember when DVD Studio Pro came out, and the industry was
         | supposed to go through a paradigm shift. I took a call at the
         | DVD shop I worked at, and provided the requested quote to the
         | person on the phone. They laughed out loud at the price and
         | said that DVDSP was going to put my company out of business
         | within a year. Multiple years later and several awards later,
         | the company was still rocking and never once used DVDSP.
         | 
         | What we did do though is specialize in taking over jobs from
         | people that could not complete a job in DVDSP and would come to
         | us to save them. More than once, it would be from someone that
         | called for a quote, didn't like the price, went some where
         | else, and then came crawling back. The original quote was no
         | longer valid as it was now considered a rush job.
         | 
         | It was a great tool for wedding videos /s
         | 
         | Any abstraction layer authoring tool removed half of the
         | working space to hold the abstraction. This meant that projects
         | that needed it were just impossible to do, and a lot of the
         | people that only ever used DVSP didn't really know there were
         | limitations until they ran head first into them.
        
       | pastorhudson wrote:
       | This software is great. During Covid we would pre-record our
       | church service and then live stream it Sunday. We would use dvd
       | styler to burn dvd's and deliver them to our members who weren't
       | able to livestream.
        
       | notorandit wrote:
       | DVD? In 2023? Is this an archaeology-related piece?
        
         | cryptonector wrote:
         | "what's a DVD?"
        
         | DanTheManPR wrote:
         | It's old tech, for sure, but it's what my parents still use. I
         | occasionally will burn a DVD of some video I've shot for them
         | to watch.
        
         | mbork_pl wrote:
         | I watch an old-ish tv series. I buy used DVDs and rip them to
         | watch on my computer. Now I physically own them, and no clown
         | company can suddenly decide I no longer can watch them.
         | 
         | I don't think there is an easy/legal/cheap alternative to that,
         | in 2000 as well as in 2023.
        
           | mxuribe wrote:
           | I'm slowly but surely beginning to buy DVDs of my favorite
           | movies...Because I'm so tired of having streaming services
           | remove them!
        
       | wildzzz wrote:
       | Oh good, the perfect software for making DVDs of my aXXo XviD-
       | encoded movies I got off of demonoid so I can watch them on my
       | bedroom PS2. Wait, what year is it?
        
         | RajT88 wrote:
         | It's also hosted on SourceForge
        
           | kazinator wrote:
           | That doesn't narrow it down very well, but if you mention
           | MySpace, we're in January 2001, +- 13 m (confidence interval
           | 90%).
        
           | throwaway8689 wrote:
           | Who report over 10,000 downloads last week. I used this years
           | ago but can't see much use for it now.
        
         | babypuncher wrote:
         | What shocks me is that many TV shows will still get released on
         | DVD but not Blu-Ray.
         | 
         | I understand there is still a market for DVDs, but any
         | collector in a first world country probably wants nothing to do
         | with a DVD of a show that aired in 2022.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | JansjoFromIkea wrote:
       | I tried to recreate some DVD menus as a website a few years ago
       | (shameless link, it's quite rough: https://dvd-
       | rom.netlify.app/info https://github.com/padraigfl/dvd-menu ).
       | 
       | Was sorta disappointing to see how hard it was to get a lot of
       | the older software for making DVD menus working (especially ones
       | that interpreted existing DVDs). Wound up having to manually
       | figure out a lot of configurations. I guess as a format it was
       | fairly loose and a lot of the more ambitious DVD menus were doing
       | lots of crazy stuff they weren't really meant to do.
       | 
       | Even with almost everything I looked up online leading to threads
       | from 15+ years ago, that was still a lot better than what I could
       | find about how Blu Rays worked the time my PS3's blu ray player
       | stopped working because I put in a new BluRay (from what I
       | gathered the new BluRay made the drive install some new DRM stuff
       | or something??)
        
         | toast0 wrote:
         | > from what I gathered the new BluRay made the drive install
         | some new DRM stuff or something??
         | 
         | IIUC, the drives authenticate the player applications by keys,
         | and the discs include a list of blacklisted keys to update in
         | the drive rom. But I'm surprised the PS3 player would have
         | gotten blacklisted? Did it work again after a ps3 system
         | update?
        
           | JansjoFromIkea wrote:
           | Update didn't fix it but I figured out some workaround
           | eventually; think it was basically the same process used for
           | installing a new BluRay drive.
           | 
           | I seriously doubt it would've happened with an unmodded PS3
           | to be fair
           | 
           | This was a 2019 BluRay going into a PS3 Slim with modded
           | firmware from 2016 that probably hadn't a BluRay video newer
           | than about 2012 in it before.
        
         | fock wrote:
         | yes, a relative made recordings of a communal band in the past
         | (before mobilephones were widespread for quick memories). I
         | remember how the DVDs menus were cumbersome and so in a short
         | stint pre-youtube-popularity I prepped a themed player with
         | HTML5 to go alongside the video file.
         | 
         | Worked pretty nice (in chrome) and reminds me what we've
         | lost...
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | DVD menus was a bit of a misnomer. Menus were just stylized
         | videos or still images. DVD programming took place in
         | Pre/Post/Cell flags, and you could only have a limited number
         | of commands per flag (I'm thinking 16 per, but it's been a
         | really long time). The actual movie content could be a menu as
         | well, and was actually a common technique for special/hidden
         | features
         | 
         | The buttons were just hot spots. Each hot spot had to be linked
         | (sometimes it was even done intelligently) to each other so
         | that the up/down/left/right buttons on the remote worked. lots
         | of fun there too. hidden features were often found through
         | pressing a button sequence. We once did a Contra homage with an
         | up/up/down/down/left/right/enter sequence to get to an easter
         | egg video to a gag reel.
        
           | JansjoFromIkea wrote:
           | Thanks for the info! Yep, they seemed fairly basic from what
           | I could see. I think I tried to create a data model that
           | roughly reflected how they worked before reading up on
           | anything and it was close enough to correct.
           | 
           | Never heard about button sequences being a possibility! does
           | that mean the menus were tracking the sequence of keys
           | inputted or you structured menus in a way that allowed
           | sequences to work (e.g. tons of spots at the end of a menu
           | that all just overlap so the user doesn't notice)?
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | >Never heard about button sequences being a possibility!
             | does that mean the menus were tracking the sequence of keys
             | inputted or you structured menus in a way that allowed
             | sequences to work (e.g. tons of spots at the end of a menu
             | that all just overlap so the user doesn't notice)?
             | 
             | this is exactly how it worked. a bunch of buttons stacked
             | on top of each other so that if you didn't get the sequence
             | correct, the enter button would do the default (for each of
             | the buttons in the sequence).
        
               | codetrotter wrote:
               | This is super interesting. Do you have a longer write up
               | about it anywhere? Specifically about your DVD easter egg
               | I mean.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | No, I was never into writing blogs or anything like that.
               | For years, I was a solo developer, so the last thing I
               | wanted to do was spend time writing about work after
               | work. This was also the dark days of the internet before
               | there were forums like this. It was all on a mailing
               | list. I was active there answering questions like this as
               | I felt that was the least I could do because I learned so
               | much from other people's responses on the same mailing
               | list.
               | 
               | So, having said that, what is it you'd like to know? My
               | problem is that things that seem obvious to me gets
               | skipped in my explanation of things, and the things I
               | sometimes find myself talking about is nothing what
               | someone else actually cares about. So turn this into an
               | AMA, and we'll probably go farther faster
        
               | codetrotter wrote:
               | I see :)
               | 
               | Well, things I wonder about include:
               | 
               | 1. What platform did you do the development itself on,
               | when you worked on these DVD things?
               | 
               | 2. Did you use any proprietary software to do it? And any
               | open source?
               | 
               | 3. What year did you start doing these DVD things? And
               | what year did you end?
               | 
               | 4. How did you get into it?
               | 
               | 5. Did you need any specialised hardware?
               | 
               | 6. Did you work for a company directly as an employee? Or
               | hired as contractor? What kind of company or companies
               | did you work for? I.e. were they movie studios, or film
               | distributors, or DVD tech companies such as whichever
               | divisions of Sony used to make DVD players?
               | 
               | 7. What do you do these days?
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Wow, those are questions that make you seem very
               | interested, which makes me want to answer.
               | 
               | 1) The company I started working for already had the
               | software that was the de facto industry standard for DVD
               | authoring, Scenarist. When I started, the software was
               | running on Windows NT. It wasn't until a bit later before
               | I learned that it was the first version to run on
               | Windows. It was dog slow. Things improved dramatically
               | with the release of Windows 2000. Apparently, the
               | previous version was being run on some form of *nix, and
               | required a lot of text file manipulation. It wasn't until
               | I got much more advanced before I went back to
               | manipulating the text file versions as well myself. But
               | for day-to-day stuff, the UI was what I used.
               | 
               | 2) I used lots of stuff that was ancillary, but nothing
               | proprietary or open source other than awk/sed/grep and
               | shell scripts written using those on the aforementioned
               | text files.
               | 
               | 3) I started programming DVDs in 1999, and continued
               | working shiny round discs until 2006. By the time I left,
               | the company had garnered a few awards, had grown to 10
               | full time employees with multiple DVD authors, and an
               | award winning graphics team, and was quite an interesting
               | place. Haven't found a company since that compares.
               | 
               | 4) I got into it by luck really. I was working in the
               | editing department of a film post production facility. I
               | was the youngest person there that was too eager to do
               | things that nobody else wanted to do. That meant most of
               | that "computer shit". This was the time when dinosaurs
               | roamed the earth. 1" tape machines, reel-to-reel Nagra
               | tape decks, and all of the other analog/digital cassette
               | tape decks were within arms reach in the machine room
               | that was my workspace. Clients eventually started wanting
               | these new fangled Video-CDs which required computers
               | (gasp!). So I started capturing MPEG-1 videos. There was
               | another small company that specialized in interactive CDs
               | using the old Macromedia Director software that we would
               | contract jobs out to. This company eventually moved into
               | a small bit of workspace within our company's space as
               | co-op agreement. We'd get discounts on their services as
               | well as advertise being able to do those services to our
               | existing client base, and they would get use of our video
               | equipment which expanded their input capabilities. I then
               | became the liaison between the two companies. When my
               | time at the post house came to an end, this company
               | contacted my a week later asking me to have lunch. I
               | started working with them a week later.
               | 
               | 5) specialized hardware is a tricky question. To the
               | industry, most of the hardware was typical, to someone
               | unfamiliar, it's all very specialized. By that, I mean
               | that the SD master tape format was Digibeta and was not
               | uncommon to have multiple racks with multiple decks in
               | each rack. Each digitbeta recorder original MSRP was
               | close to $80k. When HD equipment came out, the HD-SR was
               | the top machine, and it was $120-150k. We'd receive SR
               | tapes and take a downconvert out of it for DVD use. So,
               | that kind of stuff probably sounds specialized, but was
               | typical (for well funded outfits). This is why the co-op
               | agreement for this company was such a good deal for this
               | smaller company. After the video equipment, there were
               | full length PCI cards for encoding to MPEG2. Software
               | encoding was years away still, and playback from tape to
               | an expansion card was the way it was done. Just like with
               | software encoding, there were "quick" one pass encoding,
               | and then there was the slower 2-pass encoding. Both
               | passes were done with real time playback from a master
               | format tape machine. This made things very expensive as
               | you were paying for the deck by the hour. Once the first
               | DVD recorder came out at $15k, it could only record
               | 3.5GB. Oh, Scenarist went for about $20k at the time as
               | well. For motion graphics for menus, we were using some
               | version of a Targa card to capture uncompressed 10bit
               | data (ugh, the files were so large for the time). There
               | were other pieces of equipment that were again normal for
               | a post facility, but kind of specialized other wise.
               | There were boxes from Teranex and (I'm blanking on the
               | name of the other boxes) that did things like standards
               | conversion from NTSC<=>PAL, noise reduction, etc. The
               | toughest part was to take film original content with a
               | 3:2 pull down pattern into it and feed it as a 24
               | (23.976) frame rate to the encoder for a progressive
               | encode. This got much easier when software encoding came
               | about and we could process data that way. This became
               | very viable for us when Apple released the first Mac Pro
               | Intels. We used Final Cut Studio to capture the footage,
               | and would then reboot into Windows to use the MPEG-2
               | encoding software. We tried using Adobe Premiere to
               | capture while in Windows, but their software refused to
               | capture multichannel audio sources as discrete audio
               | tracks. It would only create multichannel interleaved
               | sources. It also had some other pain points for us like
               | only capturing as AVI (shudder). I wrote a ranting review
               | of the decision process of switching to Final Cut on the
               | DVD mailing list that got a lot of attention. Including a
               | rep from Adobe that contacted me through the HR
               | department to get permission to chat to me (which was
               | interesting of being a "correct" political move to be
               | made). After going complaint by complaint through the
               | rant, the rep said, you have some good points. "Would you
               | consider switching back to Premier if these issues were
               | resolved". They were ultimately resolved by Apple folding
               | that space with the release of Final Cut X.
               | 
               | 6) I was hired as employee #3 in a full time position.
               | The owner was from England, and ran it in a very English
               | manner. Fridays, we would all go out to lunch together,
               | and was only expected to be in the office long enough to
               | sober up before heading home. We did all sorts of work,
               | but never for feature content from studios directly. We
               | weren't on their radar since we were not located in the
               | "cool" part of the country. We did a lot of corporate
               | work. We did land a couple of film distributors to get
               | back catalog feature titles or imported titles. We did a
               | lot of DVD games. One of these was a massive 18 month
               | long project. We knew from the beginning that the project
               | ultimately wanted to be released as NTSC and PAL, so we
               | designed all of the graphics in HD. Early on, the
               | decision to solely focus on the NTSC release was made.
               | This was a complex disc with animated graphics and a list
               | of 300 questions that were meant to not repeat unless the
               | disc was restarted. The programming was quite a
               | challenge, and there were no graphics ready to being
               | testing. So a series of place holders were created with
               | the code for each question as big block white text in
               | Impact font on black background. Then the reveal, then
               | the answer all in similar style. Once the programming was
               | completed like this, the disc was sent out to a 3rd party
               | testing facility that had every single DVD player that
               | was available to the public. Not every DVD player was the
               | same features/capabilities. The cheap Apex players didn't
               | actually have a random number generator. It had a
               | randomized list that would give a random appearance, but
               | the random was the same each time. This made for poor
               | game experience as you'd just remember the patterns. Once
               | the programming was approved by 3rd party, the disc was
               | ready for graphics. The UI for the system had a way to
               | point assets to a new folder, but it was very very very
               | very slow. Instead, we exported the programming to a text
               | file, created a shell script using awk/sed/grep and
               | processed the very large text file in <15 seconds. That
               | new file was re-imported back into the system in less
               | time than the UI would even be a fraction of the way of
               | updating to the new asset location. The final week before
               | the project was due to be delivered, the call came in
               | asking if we could go ahead and deliver the PAL version
               | (who didn't see that coming?). Graphics team already had
               | been prepped for this. These guys (it was one guy and one
               | gal) that had programmed the crap out of Adobe After
               | Effects with the javascripting built in. They fired off
               | one script, and it queued up renders of the HD->PAL
               | exports. When those were done, we reran the awk/sed/grep
               | script tweaked for the NTSC->PAL conversion and in <30s
               | (it took longer as there were many more things to
               | change), we had the PAL version of the programming. We
               | delivered 2 days after the ask which was 2 days before
               | deadline.
               | 
               | 7) Now, I specialize in prepping old content that's "in
               | the can" which is basically back catalog content that
               | people are trying to monetize on the various streaming
               | platforms. What I'm doing is way more in depth than that,
               | and actually pretty cool stuff (if your a video
               | engineering nerd). Otherwise, I'm just helping make the
               | infinite scroll of content on your streaming platform of
               | choice get that much longer.
        
               | codetrotter wrote:
               | Awesome! Thank you very much for the thorough answers to
               | my questions :)
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | It made me smile a little realizing I'm now the old guy
               | with stories. You should definitely follow up with more
               | old greybeards (beard not required) to find out their
               | stories. Shortly after leaving that DVD shop, I wound up
               | moving to LA for another post house. My engineering team
               | worked in a cubicle farm, but there was this one senior
               | engineer that had his own office with a door! Who was
               | this guy? He only worked on "special projects". One day,
               | we had an offsite meeting with the full engineering team.
               | I got the chance to chat to this mysterious engineer, and
               | whoa did he have some stories. This guy was LEGEND! The
               | conversation started with our common experience with film
               | telecines (the equipment used to transfer film to video).
               | He was surprised that I knew what a flying spot
               | scanner[0] was, and proceeded to tell me his story that
               | showed me how LEGEND he was. He and his brother had
               | received a Rank telecine and over the course of a summer,
               | converted it to a method of continuous scanning of the
               | film by storing frames into a custom made memory bank to
               | allow for the creation of the 2:3 telecine cadence.
               | Because they had this bit of memory buffer, they also
               | introduced a bit of noise reduction. Apparently, this was
               | one of the first live capable noise reductions. So much
               | so, that in July 1969, a certain image of a certain
               | person taking his first steps found its way through his
               | equipment for a little bit of clean up before hitting the
               | air waves. After picking my jaw up from the floor, I
               | proceed to buy this man another round from the open bar,
               | but still. I now always try to get the senior coworkers
               | talking.
               | 
               | [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying-spot_scanner
        
               | Nition wrote:
               | It's great to have this kind of personal history written
               | down, otherwise some of this stuff just gets lost
               | forever.
               | 
               | Our first DVD player came with a copy of the first Harry
               | Potter film on DVD, and it's still by far the fanciest
               | DVD menu I've ever seen, with all sorts of features and
               | hidden extras. It's clear that some serious effort went
               | into showing off the new medium in those early days.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | You should find a copy of Contact for how important they
               | thought extras on a DVD release were going to be. Menu
               | designs were still quite simple, but the production of
               | making of content was longer than the feature.
               | 
               | That trend definitely lessened, but yes, the graphics
               | design for menus went through the roof. There's also a
               | few things a lot of people don't realize, but parents
               | with small kids probably do. For certain DVDs, the
               | looping menus have a bit of extra programming where after
               | looping for so many times, it will switch to a menu
               | without audio. The menus with animated transitions from
               | one screen to the next became popular too. I'm not
               | familiar with the specific disc of Harry Potter, but I'd
               | be amazed if it didn't have transitions
        
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