[HN Gopher] Generate a Cover Letter by Pasting the Job Post and ...
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Generate a Cover Letter by Pasting the Job Post and Your Resume
Author : spqr233
Score : 76 points
Date : 2023-03-25 20:15 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.careered.ai)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.careered.ai)
| rosywoozlechan wrote:
| So AI resumes and AI cover letters are now being auto-submitted
| to AI generated automated job postings then parsed by hiring AI.
| What an absolute circus this is becoming.
| jagged-chisel wrote:
| As long as the AI hires my wetware neural network for an
| acceptable salary, I'm game
| amrb wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcgVztdMrX4
| vkou wrote:
| Has anyone hiring for a company with more than 10 employees in
| the 21st century even _read_ a cover letter?
|
| And if they have, are they stupid enough to actually believe
| it?
|
| For most people looking for work, rent's due next month, and
| they are machine-gunning applications, they aren't actually
| deeply passionate about getting a job at <your particular
| company>.
| kube-system wrote:
| Depends on the position. 90%+ of the people I interview for
| an experienced software engineer role are currently employed.
| pclmulqdq wrote:
| My old manager at a 150-person company used to do it for
| experienced candidates. It was shocking to me. I think his
| idea was that he wanted you to be at least thoughtful enough
| to say _something_ specific about the job and your
| experience.
| Swizec wrote:
| On the other hand my SO got a job at a fortune 200 company
| out of 1000+ applicants because she was one of the _two_
| people who could speak intelligently about the role and
| what she'd do with it in the initial phone screen. The
| recruiter was surprised to find someone who even knew what
| the job posting said.
| karmelapple wrote:
| As another commenter said, it clearly points out many
| people shotgunning job apps.
|
| Maybe that will change with AI. But I bet there will be
| pretty easy ways to detect that - if nothing else, during
| the first step in the hiring process.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| I love cover letters for this reason. It's easy to tell who
| is shotgunning and who is thoughtfully applying. I might be
| lucky in the sense that I still get the latter.
| Lex-2008 wrote:
| Happened to me over 10 years ago - rejection letter had this
| extra sentence at the end: "In addition, I really love your
| cover letter". The company back then had about 1000
| employees, but it was for a position in a remote office which
| was probably very small.
|
| Regarding "are they stupid enough to actually believe it" - I
| don't know, but what do people usually write in cover
| letters? When I wrote it - it was basically CV, just in text
| form instead of bullet points. But then _lying_ in cover
| letter is basically the same as lying on CV, no? Or, if
| companies tend to believe CVs, I would expect them to at
| least _pretend_ to believe cover letters, too.
| karmelapple wrote:
| Yes, I read cover letters.
|
| If you think a successful cover letter talks about being
| deeply passionate or otherwise over-the-moon about the
| company, your understanding of what signal they give is
| misguided in my opinion. I look just for some indication that
| it's a human who has even the smallest understanding of our
| company, and maybe had some connection from their history to
| our mission. That is still helpful, including for the new
| developer I just hired two weeks ago.
|
| The cover letter and free-form two questions I ask are,
| somewhat surprisingly to me, one of the strongest signals in
| figuring out whether to talk to someone or not. Resumes can
| list lots of similar skills, but a plain English writing
| customized for my job application, even if it's small, tells
| me oh so much about their priorities, their writing ability,
| and more.
|
| And I fully understand they're looking for a job anywhere to
| pay the bills. Even as a cofounder of a small company, that's
| part of why I work, too :)
| hartator wrote:
| I do read cover letters, but more especially cover emails.
| Ozzie_osman wrote:
| I read them. I don't expect applicants to write them, and if
| it's a formal letter that they copy-paste around, I skim it
| and don't really factor it in.
|
| But a lot of times the candidate will say why they are
| interested in the role (they are passionate about the space,
| they use the product, etc) and it does give higher intent
| than just a normal application (which candidates often just
| spray out).
|
| (I'm at a 20 person company now but read them even at larger
| companies)
|
| Btw, I do the same when I'm reaching out to a candidate. I'll
| explain why I'm reaching out and why I think they are a good
| fit.
| paxys wrote:
| Might as well have AI apply and do these jobs to complete the
| circle.
| ricardonunez wrote:
| Don't forget the interview.
| chpatrick wrote:
| Until both the recruiter and software engineer become obsolete.
| Avicebron wrote:
| Then we can reach the real end game, RecruiterGPT hiring
| SoftwareEngineerGPT to work at StartupGPT building the next
| generation of cover letter generating AI.
| amrb wrote:
| griftGPT
| amrb wrote:
| This was already the grift.. ATS system doing keyword match
| building short lists from scanning resumes.
| ncr100 wrote:
| It's a bad usage of technology, in part. What's the ethical
| violation, here? Opposite of Consequentialism, at the least.
|
| Related tangent, harming the sick:
|
| Healthcare expense reimbursement denial by software,
| decisions "blessed" by Doctor at 60,000 diagnoses rejected
| per month.
|
| - https://www.propublica.org/article/cigna-pxdx-medical-
| health...
| polygamous_bat wrote:
| Health insurance business, at least the way it's run in the
| US, is evil IMO. It's a race to the bottom with the most
| profitable insurance being the one that can bully their way
| into denying the most claims.
| blueridge wrote:
| I just wrote about something similar:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35307441
| plants wrote:
| This is so funny, I was just doing this with ChatGPT to apply for
| jobs. If you make me fill out a bullshit form where I fake being
| passionate about your company, I'm going to get a chatbot to
| write it for me. End of story. I just need a job, why do you care
| if I'm passionate about building CRUD apps for you?
| billsmithaustin wrote:
| What would be an example of a non-bullshit form?
| FpUser wrote:
| Her is the example:
|
| We at company XXX are building a solution that does a,b,c.
|
| We want senior level programmer with a preference given to a
| candidates having these specific skills / domain knowledge.
|
| The job is in the office, (no) need to travel. Requires (or
| not) clearance / degree / license / etc.
|
| We pay this much (range is ok) and offering such and such
| benefits.
|
| Please explain why you are a good candidate for this job.
|
| Skip enthusiastic, passionate, hard working, woke, tolerant,
| etc. etc. bullshit because everyone is asking the same crappy
| questions here and gets the same crappy answers and it is all
| meaningless.
| zepolen wrote:
| > I just need a job, why do you care if I'm passionate about
| building CRUD apps for you?
|
| Because people that lack passion for their work cut corners to
| avoid doing it.
| avgDev wrote:
| This is how I feel.
|
| I am a pretty hard to read person. I don't excited about
| switching jobs even if its for more money. I generally have a
| monotone voice when interviewing.
|
| Some time ago, after an interview I aced, the recruiter called
| me and asked "why I don't seem to be interested in the
| position". I was like what? Apparently, because I didn't sound
| excited about working for an insurance company they were on the
| fence. The manager I interviewed with at the end was obnoxious,
| saying things straight from a script. I don't think I can work
| with people who act like "excited puppies". I'm a damn adult
| just trying to program and learn new stuff, but mostly put
| money in my bank.
|
| Maybe I would be excited about working for some space
| program......but even then there is always the day to day.
| spqr233 wrote:
| Just paste the job post and your resume or LinkedIn, and get a
| tailored cover letter in minutes. Excited to hear your feedback
| and suggestions to improve it--try it out and land your dream
| job!
| quadcore wrote:
| An example on the landing page would be nice
| akg_67 wrote:
| A better thing to do is take the job description and a detailed
| resume, and rewrite the resume to fit the job description.
| Cover letters might be needed in certain jobs like academia,
| but they have fallen out of fashion in the online application
| world.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| We don't require cover letters, but a lot of people send them
| anyway. Many of them are useless boilerplate. Even before
| ChatGPT, you could tell that a lot of people looked up generic
| cover letter boilerplate and treated it like a mad libs where
| they filled in the company name and job position.
|
| I wish more people knew just how low the bar was for writing a
| decent cover letter. You don't need to spend hours researching
| the company or choosing the perfect prose. Just a few short
| sentences that add some context to your application that might
| not be fully captured in a resume format can make a huge
| difference.
|
| The weirdest part is that when you get people into a
| conversation, like on the initial phone call, they can usually
| come up with a quick elevator pitch for themselves on the spot
| that would have been _great_ cover letter material. Yet there's
| something about the cover letter format that makes some people
| clam up and get writer's block. Or they just hate the idea of
| writing something for someone else to read, so they don't put any
| effort in.
|
| Regardless, I don't think ChatGPT generated cover letters are
| going to push this ahead. The samples look like it's yet another
| ChatGPT style generically safe output. I also feel like I'm
| rapidly getting good at sensing ChatGPT style writing.
| jw1224 wrote:
| Dear Hiring Manager,
|
| I am writing to apply for the Expert Contributor role at
| YCombinator LLC. As a Hacker News Demigod with a passion for
| crafting finger-licking, succulent comments, I am confident in my
| ability to exceed your expectations and make a significant
| contribution to your team.
|
| With my experience as a self-employed Hacker News commentator and
| my track record of consistently producing top-rated comments, I
| believe that I have the skills and expertise necessary to excel
| in this role. I possess supersonic news scanning skills,
| lightning-fast research and fact-checking abilities, and am
| fluent in tech and startup lingo. Additionally, I am an expert in
| crafting snarky comebacks that engage readers and drive
| discussions forward. You can check my website www.github.com for
| some of my latest hilarious contributions.
|
| My experience as a Cleverest Tech Support Commenter has honed my
| ability to write with a hip and snarky voice that resonates with
| IT enthusiasts. As such, I am confident that I can help make your
| brand go viral, buzzy, and catchy, ensuring that your logo is as
| sticky as a post-it on a laptop. I can also conjure side-
| splitting, tear-jerking, and occasionally thought-provoking
| content out of thin air at least thrice an hour.
|
| I am fluent in news speak, tech babble, and sanctimonious
| comebacks, and can combine knowledge, wit, and buzzwords to make
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| keyboard (required) and a cape (optional - but recommended) to
| help me fight for the truth and justice in the Hacker News realm.
|
| Thank you for considering my application. I look forward to the
| opportunity to discuss my qualifications further, and maybe meet
| your virtual dog in a VR conference.
|
| Sincerely, John "Upvote" Doe
| berjin wrote:
| 1. Alice turns a concise summary into corporate bullshit using AI
| and sends it to Bob.
|
| 2. Bob uses AI to convert Alice's corporate bullshit into concise
| summary.
| [deleted]
| frollo wrote:
| I used to just skip any job posting which required a cover letter
| but now, thanks to AI, I can fight their bullshit with more
| bullshit!
| andrewfromx wrote:
| um dup? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35113802
| throwaway675309 wrote:
| Seems like it was posted by the same person, so I guess they
| didn't get enough traction two weeks ago and felt the need to
| repost it.
| personjerry wrote:
| I already did this with ChatGPT straight up though, and there I
| can adjust and specify parameters as I wish, why would I use this
| instead?
| rufus_foreman wrote:
| Dear Hiring Manager,
|
| I am excited to apply for the OpenAI Research Residency program
| as a Research Resident. As a software engineer with experience in
| building scalable systems in the fintech, health, and adult
| entertainment industries, I believe I have the skills and
| expertise required to excel in this role. I am particularly drawn
| to the opportunity to work on real, cutting-edge AI problems and
| advance the research agenda of the team.
|
| I have a strong math background and proficiency in programming
| languages such as JavaScript, TypeScript, Node.js, React AI, and
| C++. I have also published research in the STEM field, created
| large software systems, and authored highly cited publications.
| Moreover, I am a self-starter who is motivated to discover AI
| breakthroughs and their potential benefits to humanity. I am
| excited to immerse myself in the fundamentals of machine learning
| and work closely with a team of machine learning researchers to
| build AI systems that can perform previously impossible tasks.
|
| I am available and interested in joining OpenAI full-time after
| completing the Residency, and I am willing to relocate to San
| Francisco if required. I believe I can contribute to OpenAI's
| mission and help shape the future of technology. Thank you for
| considering my application. I look forward to the opportunity to
| discuss my qualifications further.
|
| Sincerely, Angelina Lee
| dvzk wrote:
| I don't know if I dislike GPT for making inauthentic people
| seem slightly more convincing, or if I like it for confirming
| that we have always lived among people who are essentially
| performative NPCs.
| [deleted]
| blowski wrote:
| Technicallly, this is great. The UI is nice as well.
|
| But... if it were my dream job, I'd definitely put more effort
| into the cover letter. I'd use it to say why this is my dream
| job, rather than simply re-stating what's on my CV.
| avereveard wrote:
| So what generation backend is this service using?
| morkalork wrote:
| Bullshit like this is why hiring processes are so insane now.
| frob wrote:
| Agreed. In my most recent round of hiring, I used the presence
| of a relevant cover letter as a point in favor of the applicant
| when deciding whether to invite them in for an intro call. It
| showed me the person actually looked into the company a little
| bit and wasn't just spamming. It also helped weed out the spam
| since I'd get cover letters telling me how excited the
| applicant was to work at a web3 fintech while we're doing
| almost the exact opposite thing. Don't get me wrong; I think
| like 85% of people I invited back for calls did not have a
| cover letter, but it really helped in the weeding process.
|
| If it becomes an effortless throwaway generated by an AI, it no
| longer has value. Additionally, you may be shooting yourself in
| the foot. If I see something in a cover letter that catches my
| eye, I'm going to bring it up in our call to learn more. Not to
| quiz you or play gotcha, but because it probably intreagues me
| and I want to learn more. If an AI wrote it and you don't know
| what you submitted to the job posting, that's not going to
| reflect well in a call.
| karmelapple wrote:
| Bingo. If your cover letter has a lie in it detected during
| the first phone call, you're out as a candidate.
|
| If your cover letter is so generic that it doesn't have any
| personal connection to why you're interested in the position,
| it's probably not a good cover letter.
| tiedieconderoga wrote:
| Unfortunately, there is a massive sale going on for bullshit at
| the moment.
|
| It's not surprising that people are trying to start businesses
| which would not be viable in a market where bullshit was more
| expensive.
| berjin wrote:
| It's everywhere. A couple of examples:
|
| Native advertising in the media.
|
| Mass produced foods and products pretending to be artisan.
| Vespasian wrote:
| I am really hoping LLMs will remove much of the cruft from our
| daily communication.
|
| If cover letters are not a human effort any more they can be
| left out.
|
| Recently I was involved in supporting my manager in hiring for
| a new Developer position and we barely even skimmed the
| letters. They are already basically useless
| Atlas22 wrote:
| Skimming is being generous most places now. ATS is really the
| only thing that "reads" them.
| robbywashere_ wrote:
| In 5 years time everyone is just going to be hurling pages and
| pages of ai generated babble at each other. Either party not
| bothering to read any of it.
| eric-hu wrote:
| Please apply to this job post via our chatgRPC endpoint.
| yawnxyz wrote:
| This is endgame for the current hiring process circus.
|
| It'll be back to "who you know, who recommends you, and who you
| trust."
| FpUser wrote:
| Turns out to be pathetic
| ajb wrote:
| This just devalues cover letters. As a hiring manager I am
| strongly motivated to avoid channels which would cause me to wade
| through a bunch of fake crap. If there turns out to be no way to
| filter out AI generated text, we will end up that you have to
| attend an in person interview at some intermediary whose job is
| just to verify that you are a human being and you have some idea
| what the job ad said.
| antiterra wrote:
| If the main reason you're making me write a cover letter is to
| verify that I am human and know what the job description said,
| you don't deserve anything better than LLM generated.
| kube-system wrote:
| People who will cheat the written portion of the hiring process
| already do so without automation, by plagiarizing others resume
| and cover letters or by farming out the work to someone else.
| amrb wrote:
| > This just devalues cover letters cover letters are already
| dead a waste of time
|
| For technical hires I'd be looking at their interests i.e.
| github likes on followed projects, created works, etc.
|
| This makes for good conversation in interviews are gets to the
| point of seeing if their a good fit.
| lwhi wrote:
| I think ChatGPT is going to remove the value from a lot of
| roles and tasks.
|
| If it can be done by ChatGPT .. there's no point in the ritual;
| we'll most likely end up scrapping it.
|
| No cover letters. No marketing fluff. No library photography.
| Less hiring. Less jobs.
| javajosh wrote:
| It will be interesting to see how ChatGPT interacts with BS
| jobs. Could go a lot of ways. One interesting scenario is if
| humans to finally accept that if you have a big population in
| a technologically advanced society, the demand for human
| labor is going to drop, while the supply increases. The only
| real jobs are those that require rare talent, on a power law
| dist. The best they can do is no negative contribution. NPCs
| just live, reproduce, and then see if their kids can do
| better. In general, this process will continue until ALL
| humans have BS jobs, or no jobs. So it's good to deal with it
| now.
|
| Personally, I like the UBI idea.
| basro wrote:
| That sounds like an improvement
| lucb1e wrote:
| Realise that this means _more_ recruiters and it being a
| hugely valuable service all of a sudden, whereas today it is
| maybe neutral on the average (helpful for some, annoying for
| most). Since random strangers on the internet couldn 't be
| trusted in this possible scenario, recruiting firms could be
| the ones to build up reputations of having
| suitable/legitimate candidates. You might not realistically
| be able to get around them.
|
| More middle (wo)men does not sound like an improvement. But
| to be fair, I don't really know what the deal is with cover
| letters. When applying to a job, I always write some text in
| the email that explains why I can do that job and why I'm
| interested at all, it's not like I just drop my CV on an
| email address and trust the recipient to take it from there.
| The application process may be different in NL/DE versus
| whereever OP lives, or for my line of work compared to
| theirs.
| gberger wrote:
| > This just devalues cover letters.
|
| They already are very low signal.
|
| > we will end up that you have to attend an in person interview
| at some intermediary
|
| So like a recruiting agency that does pre-screening? That is a
| thing already.
| zabzonk wrote:
| > They already are very low signal.
|
| by no means - when i was doing hiring (not now) cover letter
| was almost always the most important thing. the cv says what
| you have done, the cover says what you want to do.
|
| > So like a recruiting agency that does pre-screening? That
| is a thing already.
|
| and a very bad thing - i do not want possible good candidates
| screened out by some chinless-wonder in an agency.
| anigbrowl wrote:
| * * *
| 1shooner wrote:
| >They already are very low signal.
|
| This must vary a lot on context. For the hiring I've done,
| they're usually a 'low signal' only because they are so
| uniformly poor. I do read them, and a cogent, original letter
| immediately stands out.
| lucb1e wrote:
| I wonder what I would think of a candidate who submits a
| computer-generated text for me to read, especially when the input
| is not even human bullet points but just the job post and the
| resume.
|
| We don't have any formal process for hiring (we're <10 FTE) so
| whether you add a cover letter is up to you, but if you submit
| one and I spend my time evaluating your message, and it turns out
| you had an unrelated third party bullshitting me from the first
| to the last word, I _expect_ this is not going to go over well.
|
| As an IT person, I do have to commend the automation, though.
| There are pros and cons to weigh as you use this.
| antiterra wrote:
| If they actually proofread or edit it, how are you going to
| know? How is it any worse than some job coach formulaically
| writing it based on the job description and resume? Cover
| letters are ignored all the time, and generally just serve to
| add as friction to reduce candidates.
| lucb1e wrote:
| > If they actually proofread or edit it, how are you going to
| know?
|
| Then it's not just autogenerated: apparently it's what they
| actually mean to say because they've read it (also: equal
| time spent compared to me) and still sent it. The problem is
| that the receiving party cannot know whether that's the case
| upon receipt if the "this was automatically generated" alert
| triggers.
|
| > How is it any worse than some job coach formulaically
| writing it based on the job description and resume?
|
| Someone else doing your applications for you would send a
| similar message I think, but then you can't just send out 100
| in an automated fashion and waste a ton of time (unless
| you're rich I guess, but then you'd be better off with index
| investments). I do find it hard to say for sure how I will
| feel in what-if situations without having been in them.
|
| > Cover letters are ignored all the time, and generally just
| serve to add as friction to reduce candidates.
|
| Not my experience, but as I wrote in another subthread: the
| application process may be different in NL/DE versus
| whereever OP lives, or for my line of work compared to
| theirs. I wouldn't submit a plain CV without writing a few
| sentences on why I'm applying regardless of whether that's
| explicitly stated as required by the receiving company.
| frollo wrote:
| I'm not involved in my current company's hiring process, but in
| past companies I just skipped the cover letter.
|
| It doesn't say anything useful anyway.
| fbdab103 wrote:
| Assuming they give it a once over sanity check, who cares?
| Hiring is already a smoke and mirrors game where job seekers
| have zero insight into what is happening behind the scenes.
|
| Is the job posting real? Has it already been promised to
| someone's buddy? Is the job real, but significantly below
| market rate? Will this be pre-screened by HR looking for
| magical keyword X else it gets thrown in the bin? Has John
| Carmack already applied, and I would be wasting my time? Is the
| job real, but it will take six weeks before someone deign
| acknowledges I applied?
| rpmisms wrote:
| If they built the tool, hire them immediately.
| lucb1e wrote:
| Ah yes, I wanted to add that but forgot. Agree on that one.
| If they can explain to me how it works, how it was built (and
| not just "I curl $aicorp"), then it's probably positive
| rather than negative. We do have to get to that stage,
| though.
| [deleted]
| ryandrake wrote:
| This should just be a feature of LinkedIn. They have all the info
| about the candidate, the job, the employer, and the domain. And
| it's probably already structured nicely. When you click on a job,
| LinkedIn should just populate the draft cover letter for you from
| ChatGPT.
|
| Hell, LinkedIn _should_ be able to have a chatbot answer
| recruiter emails on my behalf with me out of the loop. When I'm
| looking for a job they have all the information needed to
| accurately answer solicitations from recruiters. Just do it for
| me and leave me out of it until an on-site is scheduled.
| penjelly wrote:
| i dont get these apps, are they just chatgpt + preprompting with
| "write a cover letter"? Cant this easily be done with chatgpt
| itself?
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| Yes, yes.
| throwaway675309 wrote:
| That's exactly what this is, I've been using ChatGPT to rewrite
| my resumes and cover letters for months now.
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| If you've been doing it for months, maybe it's not working
| very well. ;)
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