[HN Gopher] Comparing Hobby PCB Vendors
___________________________________________________________________
Comparing Hobby PCB Vendors
Author : robin_reala
Score : 132 points
Date : 2023-03-24 06:40 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (lcamtuf.substack.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (lcamtuf.substack.com)
| jdiez17 wrote:
| I've had pretty good experiences with Aisler[1]. They're based in
| Germany and produce prototype PCBs (2, 4 and 6 layers)
| ridiculously quickly. For simple 2 layer boards they are often
| sent in the post within 2 days and arrive the next day. They're
| also quite cheap [2] and have excellent customer service.
|
| They also do turnkey board assembly these days. Just put in an
| order for 6 assembled prototype battery management system boards
| yesterday. Can't recommend them enough.
|
| [1] https://aisler.net/ [2] https://community.aisler.net/t/our-
| simple-pricing/102
| f_devd wrote:
| > They're also pretty cheap
|
| Maybe I'm making different types of PCBs but they are
| consistently the most expensive compared to all other
| fabricators [0] even with shipping cost savings.
|
| [0]: https://pcbshopper.com/
| jdiez17 wrote:
| According to PCBshopper JLCPCB would make 3x 2 layer
| 10cm*10cm boards for 31.59EUR and delivery in 7 days, while
| Aisler would make them for 37.20EUR (with delivery often
| within 3 business days). In my experience there's often a
| 20EUR-ish customs charge and sometimes additional delays when
| receiving packages outside the EU, so in the end Aisler ended
| up being cheaper in my case.
| f_devd wrote:
| 3x 2 layer 10cm*10cm:
|
| * JLCPCB Green 5 EUR1.86 total EUR0.37 each (Minimum order
| qty 5)
|
| * AISLER Green 3 EUR37.20 total EUR12.40 each
|
| Even with shipping & customs (20EUR extra only for JLC),
| AISLER is still 76% (1.76x) more expensive. Now I do see
| that for some reason AISLER's shipping is more expensive
| which is dumb because it's significantly less distance, but
| it seems like I can't replicate your JLCPCB data; did you
| further customize it?
| jdiez17 wrote:
| > JLCPCB Green 5 EUR1.86 total EUR0.37 each (Minimum
| order qty 5)
|
| How much would you pay to get 5 boards delivered? (And in
| what timeframe)
|
| Actual example from a 33x55mm board I have on my account:
|
| Price for 3 boards in 7 working days: EUR18.04. 2 working
| days: EUR24.56
| jeffbee wrote:
| Pay a little more, get a better board. I've been using Sunstone
| for many years and the results are consistently good. 6"x6"
| 4-layer board with a 1-week turn marginal cost $50 per board.
| Compared to how much time you will spend figuring out that the
| PCB shop blew out one of your plated holes, it's a bargain.
| weinzierl wrote:
| I did a lot of soldering and assembly as a kid and later as an
| intern and kind of enjoyed it. Nowadays it's the only part I
| _really_ hate doing.
|
| Is there any affordable option for a hobbyist to outsource
| assembly?
| mNovak wrote:
| I've placed probably 20-50 orders through JLC. Very consistently
| decent quality, and surprisingly good customer service, they
| manually check every design within a few hours and will email
| with issues and/or their adjustment.
|
| Tip for smallish boards: "Panel by JLC" can further drop the
| price. It's often cheaper to buy say 10 units of a 2x2 panel than
| to buy 40 individual boards.
|
| I was stunned to see they added teflon substrates recently (for
| RF layouts. I've paid $1000s for teflon fab); very excited to try
| that out.
| Matheus28 wrote:
| FYI for anyone interested: PCBWay, PCBgogo & ALLPCB (last I
| checked a couple of years ago) sent their stuff to the same
| factory.
|
| It's easy to test since they let you know exactly in which step
| the manufacturing is in. So you can order a fairly unique
| combination of solder mask color, board thickness, etc. and see
| that they all report the board is in the same step, down to the
| minute.
| the__alchemist wrote:
| Of those choices, JLC is the only one that makes sense for
| practical purposes (Along with some others mentioned at the end
| like PCBWay): OSHPark and (for now, but maybe changing?) Digikey
| don't do assembly.
|
| I'd love a future where you can order assembled PCBs from
| somewhere other than Shenzen at a reasonable price. Shenzen will
| do for now. Maybe Digikey will change this.
|
| Of note, JLC is consistently 10 days (Using the ~$20 DHL
| shipping) to east coast USA, order to receiving the PCB.
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| Jlc assembly is so cheap and convenient that I just design
| around their library of parts.
|
| I have no idea why other houses haven't cottoned on to this
| tiedieconderoga wrote:
| The automation and labor is probably expensive.
|
| IIRC, JLC has a bit of a first-mover advantage, in that they
| designed their facilities and systems around the idea that
| the whole process should be vertically integrated and use as
| much automation as possible. For the steps that do require
| manual labor, that labor is very inexpensive compared to
| other tech hubs.
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| My understanding is also that they are owned and possibly
| in the same facility as LCSC. So that likely helps a ton.
| tiedieconderoga wrote:
| That's the vertical integration aspect - if they own each
| step in the process, they can avoid supply shocks and
| have a more efficient business. It is also a
| consolidation of power which can create risks for
| consumers, though. As explained by 30 Rock:
|
| Jack: "Imagine that your favorite corn chip manufacturer
| also owned the number one diarrhea medication."
|
| Liz: "That'd be great, because then they could put a
| little sample of the medicine in each bag."
|
| Jack: "Keep thinking."
|
| Liz: "Except then, they might be tempted to make the corn
| chips give you -"
|
| Jack: "Vertical integration."
|
| In this case, JLC could decide to steer their customers
| towards copycat parts which they have a commercial
| interest in, knowing that the marginal cost of doing your
| own assembly or switching providers would be fairly high.
| squarefoot wrote:
| Also check out PCBShopper to compare offers, both for PCB
| fabrication and assembly.
|
| https://pcbshopper.com/
| Shelnutt2 wrote:
| I have used macrofab[1] for several orders over the years and I
| found them to be great for handling PCB manufacturing and
| assembling. Highly recommend checking them out.
|
| [1] https://macrofab.com/
| bsder wrote:
| I'm glad to see he calls out thin soldermask. This is the bane of
| my existence with _every single PCB manufacturer_ --even the
| expensive ones.
|
| I have had innumerable problems because the soldermask doesn't
| mask. If you have some big pad (QFN, DPAK, etc.) and you route a
| line requiring soldermask isolation next to it you can _expect_
| to have some percentage of the boards fail. It 's infuriating,
| but at this point I just have to assume that it simply _will_
| happen and design around it.
| lnsru wrote:
| For Germany I would mention betalayout and eurocircuits. 5-10x
| more expensive than production in China. But I don't mind
| producing my things in Europe.
| jdiez17 wrote:
| I would recommend you to check out Aisler. Boards made in
| Germany, cheap and fast! And pretty good quality as far as I
| can tell. I haven't noticed any defects in many boards ordered.
| Brian_K_White wrote:
| Both pcbway and jlcpcb will cleanly cut your entire board outline
| with no panelization tabs. You can draw any arbitrary shape in
| your edge.cuts and get it in one clean continuous cut.
|
| oshpark leaves rat bites that you have to sand down and clean up
| if the board outline matters to you. Worse, if you have
| castellated half holes, the rat bites can land right in the
| middle of what was supposed to be edge contacts.
|
| I have boards that are small like the size of a dip28, where the
| entire length of the two long sides are castellated, and they are
| edge contacts to fit in a socket, not for soldering, and the
| entire board snaps into a carrier so essentially all 4 sides need
| to be clean and match the drawing. I have to sand and clean up
| oshpark boards, and live with a little bit of defect in the
| castellated holes. I don't have to do anything with jlc or pcbway
| boards. They arrive perfectly clean edged and ready to use.
|
| I have one board that is only about 1cm square, but not square,
| it has a complicated outline, and both jlc and pcbway just pop it
| out with no fuss the same as any other order for the same nothing
| cost. I don't know how they even hold on to the tiny board to cut
| the outline. It does appear to be traditionally routered, not
| laser or water jet.
|
| https://github.com/bkw777/TPDD_Cable
|
| pics of an earlier version with slightly different outline.
| https://photos.app.goo.gl/TdYxGhzK94KT9rS78
|
| I guess I shouldn't be so amazed at the size, given how common
| tiny pcbs are, for example the little page counter chips on my
| printers toner cartridges are only about 1/3 the size of these,
| although simple square edged.
| mkl wrote:
| Typo in your second link:
| https://photos.app.goo.gl/TdYxGhzK94KT9rS78
|
| Do you have a problematic castellated one you can show us?
| Brian_K_White wrote:
| Thanks, fixed.
|
| I don't have any pics of the buggered up examples, but the
| boards are https://github.com/bkw777/REX_Classic and
| https://github.com/bkw777/Teeprom
|
| I've orderdered several times from oshpark because over the
| last 5 or so years I've iterated the design slightly many
| times. From oshpark I have received different results at
| different times from the same board outline. One time was a
| single rat bite in the middle of the short ends, leaving the
| castellations fully clear. Another time was two rat bites on
| each end at the corners, but on the short sides, again
| leaving the long sides clear. But most of the time the tabs
| are placed randomly other than being spaced apart.
|
| Even the buggered ones were usable, it's just that one was
| usable after cleaning up, and still slightly uncosmetic even
| after cleaning up because you can only sand down not fill in,
| while the other was not only usable but fully cosmetic right
| out of the box.
|
| I give all my boards nice rounded corners now just because
| apparently it's free so why not.
|
| It's even functional not just cosmetic in this case. Any time
| a part has to fit into another part, there has to be some
| relief either on the inside or outside part, they can't both
| have perfectly sharp inside and outside corners and fit into
| each other. It's often not possible, and usually not
| desirable because of stress riser reasons, to manufacture
| perfectly sharp inside corners, and so you need the outside
| corner of the inside part to be cut down. Or, if the outside
| of the inside part must have a sharp corner, then you need to
| cut out extra relief in the inside corner of the outside
| part, like adding a round hole centered on the corner, both
| for stress-riser reasons and just to ensure the part will
| always be able to fit without interferance. Like the inside
| corner on the left edge of this pic:
| https://github.com/bkw777/WP-2_IC-
| Card/blob/master/COVER/WP-... There's a connector body with
| square edges that fits into that part, so there's a little
| extra cutaway right in the inside corner.
|
| In the carrier part above, the drawing for the carrier has
| simple imaginary perfect inside corners, and in real life the
| printer doesn't quite make a knife-edge inside corner of
| course. And the pcb has slightly rounded outside corners. If
| the fab couldn't do it for me with the router, I'd do it by
| sanding.
|
| I would say those two particular projects (rex and teeprom)
| are a special case with needs that most people won't need to
| worry about, so I'm not saying oshpark is a bad choice. It's
| just a difference, and the whole point of the article was to
| compare and show differences.
| VLM wrote:
| The only other criteria missed in the otherwise excellent article
| would be commentary on the design rules for those services... If
| they tell you not to do something and you ask them to do it
| anyway and the result is 'meh' its hard to say who is in the
| wrong.
|
| For example if they tell you they do 0.5mm vias and you ask for
| 0.4mm vias and they ship you 0.5mm vias... who's in the wrong?
| ilyt wrote:
| At this price point, you.
|
| But it would be nice if we had some DRC rule format that the
| PCB vendors could just publish and all PCB programs use.
|
| Or step further and expand it to DRC + any other rules for
| generating gerbers and rest of the files so it would be just
| single operation to get the PCB program ready to generate what
| is needed
| Brian_K_White wrote:
| There are more things missing. I just commented about the
| quality of the board outline.
|
| pcbway and jlc both way better than oshpark, no panelization
| rat bites, just magic perfect unbroken outline matching the
| drawing all the way around.
|
| It particularly matters to me because I have small boards where
| most of the outline is castellated edges that oshpark buggers
| up because they have to stick the panel tabs somewhere. But
| somehow it's no problem for jlc or pcbway. It's like they have
| some way of holding the pcb from the center, letting them cut
| the entire outline in one continuous cut.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| > For example if they tell you they do 0.5mm vias and you ask
| for 0.4mm vias and they ship you 0.5mm vias... who's in the
| wrong?
|
| If you're ordering the $2 special from JLC and they deliver a
| board that meets their specifications, you can't really
| complain.
|
| Now if this was a $500 board house making random changes
| without communication, I'd be upset.
|
| At ultra-low price points, you take what's offered and don't
| expect any hand holding along the way.
| [deleted]
| bsder wrote:
| > For example if they tell you they do 0.5mm vias and you ask
| for 0.4mm vias and they ship you 0.5mm vias... who's in the
| wrong?
|
| You. Always.
|
| PCB programs _ALL_ have design rule checkers. If you fail to
| use them, the result is all on you.
| DeathArrow wrote:
| This is good when you need a few like 10 or 50 boards and you can
| wait a bit for boards to ship from China.
|
| It would be nice to have a local fast service for when you are in
| hurry, want to make a prototype or a one off project, or you are
| just tinkering, send the design and receive the board the next
| day.
|
| Yes, you can fab the board at home but it takes a bit of skill
| and time.
| syedkarim wrote:
| PCBway has an option for same-day fabbing and DHL takes about 3
| days. That's not too bad for less than $100. The same service
| from Sierra Circuits or Imagineering would be $1000.
| ycui1986 wrote:
| Also don't forget US domestic PCB vendor often have to go
| through quoting process. Which can add significant delay.
| syedkarim wrote:
| Yes, absolutely. In three different instances, I received
| boards from China faster than I received quotes from
| American board shops.
| ycui1986 wrote:
| I you are located close to a DHL hub, then the order from China
| can come in 2 days, which make the international order a moot
| point as disadvantage. JLCPCB provide 24-hour run on 2-layer
| board.
| kurthr wrote:
| Up till about 5 years ago it was cheaper and faster to get a
| turn out of Asia than the US. I have no idea now. This was true
| for anything more than 1-2 panels (24"x18") with 4layer 4mil
| trace/space and no blind/buried vias. You could easily get 4
| day turn (2 day hot lot was double).
|
| We really wanted to use local or US manufacture, but it had
| multiple problems: 1 US worked 9-5 so you had
| to deliver by 9 whereas China you could deliver at 5pm.
| 2 US didn't run equipment on weekends, and often better
| equipment only 1 time a week. 3 In US the equipment
| wasn't constantly running so calibrations went off and
| sometimes multiple runs were required to dial it in.
|
| You could order a couple of panels form Asia on Friday at 5pm
| and have boards available by courier Monday before noon for
| <$4k. All of that assumed that there were no problems or
| questions on the gerbers so you needed to do a really good
| review and know their capabilities. There were places in
| Vietnam, Thailand, and Shenzhen that did the work. We stuffed
| (SMT) the PCBs locally, but that was moving to Asia as well
| since availability of some parts was easier there. I'd worry
| about counterfeits more now.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| > I'd worry about counterfeits more now.
|
| Counterfeit components or, ahem, Bigger runs of your board
| being done than you ordered?
| kurthr wrote:
| That was mostly a concern with the CMs. We had the
| advantage of owning the Main ASIC FW and the Driver so a
| serial# challenge response could detect fakes. Difficulty
| was doing that without implementing public key on a tiny
| micro and keeping reverse engineering difficult.
| varispeed wrote:
| We have these in the UK, but they are prohibitively expensive.
| Like you are looking at PS500 for a simple board overnight. For
| something more complex could easily be multiplies of that. Even
| if you are not in the rush, most are stuck in the 90s when it
| comes to ordering, so before you agree everything, you'll
| probably get your boards delivered from China at a fraction of
| the price. There used to be a great PCB manufacturer in the EU
| that had very short lead times, although still expensive, it
| was a good alternative if you were in a rush. Now often you get
| your PCBs quicker in the UK from China than from the EU.
|
| It's a shame such (one would think) crucial services are so
| underdeveloped locally.
|
| I'd say one thing is that equipment is very expensive, the
| other is that nobody believes in engineering culture anymore
| here. Engineering has become just another blue collar
| profession and people's attitude has become hostile -
| population see an engineer as someone who sits by the computer
| all day (meaning not actually "working"), makes "a lot" of
| money and engages in tax avoidance.
|
| Something is very broken in Britain.
| bsder wrote:
| > It's a shame such (one would think) crucial services are so
| underdeveloped locally.
|
| Well, the domestic PCB shops are in a catch-22 local minimum.
| They don't move enough volume which means they can't optimize
| and automate every step which then means that they can't move
| the same volume as China which means ... This one infuriates
| me as it _could_ be fixed but nobody does.
|
| However ... PCBs have a lot of toxic glop and emissions. How
| do you contain and dispose of it all? How do you prevent
| people from breathing it? China doesn't really care all that
| much about those considerations and that adds quite a bit to
| prices.
| syedkarim wrote:
| You might be referring to this PCB manufacturer in the EU.
|
| https://www.eurocircuits.com/
| wwasilev wrote:
| A friend recommended https://www.4pcb.com/ for me. I don't have
| direct experience (yet).
| elcritch wrote:
| They're not good for hobbyists and there's better options for
| business boards.
| efnx wrote:
| I've used circuit hub for pcbs and it was around $40 for like 10.
| I didn't have the parts placed and they were small boards but the
| service was great.
| lsllc wrote:
| Both OSH Park (and BatchPCB before it) and OSH Stencil are great!
| I have not used JLCPCB but I have used PCBWAY and they're pretty
| good, although it usually takes 2 weeks to get an order assuming
| no customs release delays which sometimes happens (best used for
| bulk).
| memcg wrote:
| I worked 25 years until 1998 in a prototype PCB shop near
| Washington DC. Anyone have links to factory tours? I'd love to
| see current costs of labor, materials and equipment. It's amazing
| to see such low prices.
| mhb wrote:
| JLCPCB has a nice video:
|
| https://youtu.be/y1TRiahMrD4
| jvandonsel wrote:
| I've always used protoboard and hand-wiring for all my home
| projects. Is it worth the time and effort to layout a PCB and
| have several fabricated for a one-off project? Do the aesthetics
| of a PCB win out?
| Palomides wrote:
| making PCBs is probably easier than you think, it doesn't take
| that long to learn the basics or to lay out a simple board
| jnovek wrote:
| I'm a hobbyist and I've tried to pick up kicad but found it
| absolutely overwhelming. Any tips on how to get started?
| koofdoof wrote:
| I found the Getting to Blinky series to be very easy to
| follow:
|
| https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy2022BX6EspFAKBCgRuEuza
| p...
| contingencies wrote:
| (1) Find someone you can pester with questions. (2)
| Understand the basic workflow. (3) Start by copying and
| modifying existing designs. (4) Build solutions using
| functional modules, and version these. (5) Bench test
| everything. (6) Be aware of startup and edge conditions
| when designing. (7) Take notes on all design changes or
| prospective changes, hypotheses and findings. This process
| will greatly accelerate your learning. This is easier if
| you have LXI-capable equipment and can capture test
| information easily. https://github.com/lxi-tools/lxi-tools
| mitthrowaway2 wrote:
| I found Horizon EDA more intuitive. The developer is also
| really responsive.
|
| https://horizon-eda.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
| sitzkrieg wrote:
| check out the kicad tutorial series from digikey, thats
| pretty good
|
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vaCVh2SAZY4
| elihu wrote:
| I'm also a hobbyist. It's daunting, but there are a lot of
| good videos on Youtube.
|
| I think the most frustrating thing is just trying to find
| the correct symbol and footprint for the part you want.
| Sometimes they're hard to find because you have to
| understand Kicad's organization scheme. Sometimes what you
| want isn't there at all so you have to make your own symbol
| or footprint or both. (Which, to be fair, is reasonably
| easy to do.)
|
| Exporting a Kicad project's gerbers and drill files to
| JLPCB is surprisingly easy, but to use their pick and place
| service is more work. (I just ordered an assembled board
| for the first time, and had to manually reposition all the
| parts in their web interface because the position file put
| all the parts offset way off to one side and with the wrong
| rotation. Not sure if I did something wrong or there's just
| a bug.)
|
| I think Kicad just takes a long time to learn. There are a
| lot of very powerful features that you might not know about
| at first. Kicad also expects you to do things in a
| particular way, and if you don't it tends to cause
| problems.
|
| Kicad 7 is out now, but I haven't tried it yet.
| Karliss wrote:
| One more factor to consider is time. If you have all the parts
| already on hand and want to make it now you will probably
| choose the protoboard. But if you will have wait a week for
| parts to arrive anyway and the cost of board (for the specific
| project) is negligible might as well order the pcb in parallel.
| For a simple board that you could do on protoboard, the layout
| process on a computer shouldn't take much effort either.
|
| The comment about more easily mounting certain parts applies
| not only to SMD parts, but can also apply through hole
| components. You protoboard will probably have 0.1 inch spacing
| between holes, just like most DIP ic packages, and you can bend
| resistors and capacitor legs however you want. But there are
| occasionally some through hole components like buttons,
| switches or specialized connectors which might have a different
| requirements. Trying to workaround those can result in a bit
| janky result. And if you are making something practical you
| want to use daily, having something more robust and less janky
| can be nice even for a one off project.
|
| At the end of day it's one more tool in your toolbox. And
| different people make different kind of hobby project with
| different needs. I recommend you to try doing it a few times so
| that you are familiar with the process and overcome the stage
| where you avoid it just because you have never done it.
| Afterwards for your future projects you can choose the method
| that's best suited for specific project.
|
| Being familiar with more tools can also open you doors to new
| projects that you wouldn't try otherwise.
| dragontamer wrote:
| You don't really have a choice if you wanna use high quality
| SMD parts, like a SOT-3 and a LQFP 32 or something.
|
| ------
|
| That being said, there is a lot you can do with hand wiring and
| DIP parts. And Microchip still makes PDIP uC like AVR DD,
| ATtiny, MCP6002, and other important parts for projects.
|
| So PDIP / through hole is still alive, but you gotta set your
| expectations way low. All the MOSFETs and OpAmps and such are
| just worse, all good parts these days are seemingly surface
| mount only.
| wombat_trouble wrote:
| You can use surface-mount-to-DIP breakout boards. They add a
| buck or two per part, but that's generally OK for
| prototyping.
| Brian_K_White wrote:
| That is essentially going out of your way. It's like
| forgetting why you were using THT and perfboard in the
| first place. Maybe not technically, because sure you could
| have a stock of common adapter blanks already on hand,
| allowing you to build right now, which was the point, but
| it's getting very close to blowing that point if you're
| using smt parts on adapter pcbs on tht perf boards.
|
| I guess it's still practical while still developing on
| solderless protoboards.
| barelyauser wrote:
| Aesthetics don't matter. Being able to route multi layer boards
| matter.
| mecsred wrote:
| "Is it worth" is entirely subjective, I don't think someone
| who's happy with perf board particularly cares about RF
| performance or routing complex BGAs against the increased
| complexity of debugging a multi layer design. In general I
| would think that if you aren't sure you need a multilayer
| board, you probably don't.
| the__alchemist wrote:
| The more layers, the easier to design IMO. You have to do
| more QC when placing a via, and there's more layers in
| general to flip between, but routing puzzles become easier.
| [deleted]
| mecsred wrote:
| It really depends on what your going to use it for. It's
| necessary if you want to use surface mount parts with a fine
| pitch. Or anything with a really wonky footprint. I find it's
| quite useful for the mechanical properties, being able to size
| it to the exact enclosure and put mounting holes where needed.
| And you can print cool art on them for the extra wow factor :)
| I particularly like OSHpark's after dark board for this,
| drawing in the copper layer looks fantastic with them.
|
| In general I find it's not worth it for a weekend project but
| if you are going to be looking at it often and want it to last,
| definitely worth it.
| fortran77 wrote:
| So many chips are surface-mount only these days, there's little
| choice.
| musingsole wrote:
| If a project calls for 3+ of the same board, then PCBs become
| worth it quickly, in my opinion.
|
| Even more than aesthetics, I've had a few projects where an
| unpopulated board outlives any other remnants of a project and
| so becomes the last remaining document/example of how it was
| done.
| rgoulter wrote:
| There are other benefits: A PCB design can be shared so that
| others can fabricate it themselves. (Or modify it if they
| wish). A PCB design will likely have a schematic, too, which
| can be studied.
|
| I'd also bet that PCB projects are more likely to inspire
| better PCB projects. -- Or at least, the domain I've tried my
| hand at has been PCBs for custom mechanical keyboards.
|
| e.g. I've seen boards inspired by https://github.com/hsgw/plaid
| such as https://github.com/coseyfannitutti/discipline or
| https://github.com/rtitmuss/torn and I think there are several
| popular split keyboard designs which basically descend from
| https://github.com/MakotoKurauchi/helix
| Brian_K_White wrote:
| It's so convenient to draw a perfect board in kicad and have it
| delivered at about the same time as the parts arrive from
| digikey, it's all I ever do. I have some protoboards, and have
| never actually used a single one.
| the__alchemist wrote:
| 100% worth it. Modern ICs don't work on perfboard... Actually,
| I'm not even sure where to begin. Download KiCad and
| experiment.
| rolenthedeep wrote:
| Hand built boards are great for getting something done _right
| now_. It 's also a fun sort of challenge sometimes.
|
| Just drawing up a PCB can take as much time as building out the
| same circuit on perfboard. Manufacturing and shipping obviously
| adds even more time.
|
| Take this next part with a mountain of salt. Things vary wildly
| based on circumstance, but in general it's easier to make
| mistakes on perfboard. They're less resistant to physical
| damage from handling, impact, vibration. They're harder to
| repair, especially if any time has passed between design and
| repair.
|
| You should choose a PCB if your circuit:
|
| - needs to last a long time
|
| - must be repairable by another person
|
| - will be produced more than once
|
| - will be anywhere other than a box that never leaves the bench
|
| - has physical or mechanical constraints from the enclosure
|
| Personally, I find joy in building quick and dirty circuits on
| perfboard. But I get the same joy from a well-designed PCB.
| antoniuschan99 wrote:
| Up to a point for sure. You can even just keep it as a
| breadboard without the perf.
|
| I always breadboard the design before going to the cad.
|
| For any smt parts I try to use prototadvantage on top of it as
| well
|
| http://www.proto-advantage.com/store/
| jonititan wrote:
| There's also https://dirtypcbs.com/store/pcbs
| kramerger wrote:
| +1 for dirtypcbs
|
| Dirty PCB is run by Ian Lesnet & co, the guys behind the bus
| pirate.
|
| I think it started a a joke, or maybe a service for a few
| friend but they have been quite good and cheap the few times I
| tested them.
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