[HN Gopher] Block's Response to Inaccurate Short Seller Report
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       Block's Response to Inaccurate Short Seller Report
        
       Author : mfiguiere
       Score  : 36 points
       Date   : 2023-03-23 17:34 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (investors.block.xyz)
 (TXT) w3m dump (investors.block.xyz)
        
       | eloff wrote:
       | So they're just going to call Hindenburg dirty liars trying to
       | manipulate the stock price to make a buck?
       | 
       | I think Hindenburg has a pretty solid reputation at this point.
       | So what they should do is refute their points one by one with
       | data. It will take effort and weeks of work, but failing that
       | people will assume it's because they can't refute those points.
       | 
       | I literally put my money against them this morning by opening a
       | small short position. So far, I feel happy with that decision.
        
         | cuteboy19 wrote:
         | CEO complains about short sellers is a sure sign that something
         | is very wrong about the company. Many such cases
        
       | jchonphoenix wrote:
       | This sounds eerily like the same response the SVB & Lehman CEO
       | gave right before they went under.
        
       | latchkey wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | VHRanger wrote:
         | Wow, that article is salty garbage.
         | 
         | Trying to pass off Adani's downfall as a USA vs India racism
         | thing instead of simply a bunch of misappropriation and some
         | researchers who profited from exposing rot.
        
         | arberx wrote:
         | Profiting off your research isn't a crime. Others choosing to
         | act/believe it isn't up to Hindenburg.
         | 
         | There's a reason they're listened to in the space.
        
         | nradov wrote:
         | That is a low-effort garbage article. There is nothing
         | unethical about short selling.
        
           | latchkey wrote:
           | I think the unethical thing here is creating shorts and then
           | publishing negative articles in order to drive the price down
           | to profit from those shorts. Kind of a wallstreetbets play.
        
             | nradov wrote:
             | Nonsense. There is nothing even slightly unethical about
             | that unless the short seller knowingly publishes false
             | information. This is a totally normal price discovery
             | mechanism in properly functioning capital markets.
             | 
             | Wall Street traders make directional bets all the time,
             | both long and short, so I don't understand your point
             | there.
        
               | latchkey wrote:
               | https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-23/what-
               | is-s...
               | 
               | "After researching a potential target, Hindenburg places
               | a bet that the stock will decline, then trumpets its
               | research publicly, using social media to get the message
               | out."
               | 
               | Update: The whole article is about the question of
               | 'activist shorting'...
               | 
               | 5. Why is activist shorting especially controversial?
               | Opponents point to the ability of shorts to hoodwink
               | investors by spreading false rumors before exiting a
               | trade, a technique known as "short and distort."
               | 
               | I'd argue that posting videos like this is exactly
               | that...
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StjWk3Mj-M4
               | 
               | They are picking only black music videos and culture,
               | regardless if it is true or not, in order to distort
               | views. "Rap is bad", so therefore people singing about
               | cash app is equally bad.
        
               | unmole wrote:
               | Again, nothing even remotely unethical about it.
        
               | duskwuff wrote:
               | > They are picking only black music videos and culture,
               | regardless if it is true or not, in order to distort
               | views.
               | 
               | Can you name a non-Black musician who sings about paying
               | for illegal products or services on CashApp?
               | 
               | Picking from examples that exist isn't "distorting
               | views".
        
       | fdsavkja wrote:
       | The options for dealing with bad press as a corp, 101:
       | 
       | 1) give at least one or two reasons why the report is wrong
       | 
       | 2) give exactly zero reasons, and then "explore legal actions"
       | against the ones who broke the story.
       | 
       | If your CEO was the same person who ran an ardently free speech
       | platform, you might go with #1 just as a matter of culture.
       | 
       | But some things, I guess, override that? But none of them seem
       | very good and range from "They caught us! Let's slow them down."
       | to "Don't bother Dorsey with this one, just write a response with
       | Chat-GPT and hope it all blows over."
        
       | marban wrote:
       | Footer longer than the actual statement. Classic.
        
       | pcurve wrote:
       | "We have reviewed the full report in the context of our own data
       | and believe it's designed to deceive and confuse investors.
       | 
       | We are a highly regulated public company with regular
       | disclosures, and are confident in our products, reporting,
       | compliance programs, and controls. We will not be distracted by
       | typical short seller tactics."
       | 
       | Wow... they're not even denying anything. It reads like, "What we
       | did is technically all legal".
        
         | nborwankar wrote:
         | This is also mostly what Adani did. They had put all their
         | third party transactions in "disclosure" filings so nothing was
         | hidden and the Indian market went "it's Adani, he's going to
         | multiply our money. No worries" But when he went to global
         | capital markets it brought much greater scrutiny and
         | Hindenburg. Rest is history.
        
         | velavar wrote:
         | It's hard to strike the right balance here. The points raised
         | by Hindenburgh are many and it will take time to study and
         | respond to them.
         | 
         | Stay quiet for too long and folks will assume the article is
         | right since you haven't responded. Respond too fast and your
         | analysis will likely not stand up to scrutiny because it was
         | set up too soon. It makes sense that they put out a first
         | statement here - it remains to be seen if they will follow it
         | up with a more detailed pushback.
        
       | quercusa wrote:
       | This would probably be more effective with even a few examples of
       | what they consider to be false.
        
         | RockyMcNuts wrote:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-denial_denial
        
       | arberx wrote:
       | pretty weak
        
       | koolba wrote:
       | > Hindenburg is known for these types of attacks, which are
       | designed solely to allow short sellers to profit from a declined
       | stock price. We have reviewed the full report in the context of
       | our own data and believe it's designed to deceive and confuse
       | investors.
       | 
       | What's the track record Hindenburg being right about these
       | calls[1]?
       | 
       | Going off memory, there's been quite a few in the news that had
       | some meat behind them like the recent one with Adani.
       | 
       | [1]: Or should I say _puts_?
        
         | almog wrote:
         | They were the ones to publish the research about Nikola...
         | 
         | It's an odd response from Block given Hindenburg's solid track
         | record. I expected them to try and refute some of the claims
         | but they didn't even try it seems
        
         | VHRanger wrote:
         | In general, their reputation is solid.
         | 
         | They use flowery language, but it's very rare the facts they
         | present are outright wrong
        
         | impulser_ wrote:
         | I don't know all of their reports, but the ones I do know they
         | made the right call.
         | 
         | The ones I remember were SimleDirectClub, Nikola, Lordstown
         | Motors, Clover Health, and most recently Adani.
         | 
         | I know for a fact all of these companies are trading +90% down
         | from their reports, except for Adani which I think is only down
         | ~50%.
         | 
         | They definitely aren't just throwing claims out there. If they
         | call you out, you future aint looking green.
        
           | getoffmycase wrote:
           | Ginkgo Bioworks, Berkeley Lights. Although targeting biotech
           | during the bubble was kinda like shooting fish in a barrel.
           | Seems like a lot of barely concealed fraud got VC funding.
        
         | arberx wrote:
         | They called out Nikola.
        
       | nostrebored wrote:
       | We're so far in to the fraud cycle that public companies are
       | engaging in open fraud and can't even prove that their operations
       | are ethical or compliant.
       | 
       | If this happened to Stripe, do you think that Stripe couldn't
       | publish information about their AML compliance process and show
       | in a legally-liable way that they're on the up-and-up? Having
       | worked there, I feel very confident that they could, and that
       | they care enough about their customers that they would.
       | 
       | This is really on the precipice of collapse type fraud. When
       | money is easy and fomo is high, these companies get to ride the
       | wave.
        
         | duskwuff wrote:
         | > If this happened to Stripe, do you think that Stripe couldn't
         | publish information about their AML compliance process
         | 
         | TBH, they're limited in what they can talk about. Publicizing
         | details about AML processes (e.g. about specific patterns of
         | behavior that the company associates with fraud) is likely to
         | make them less effective.
        
       | goat_whisperer wrote:
       | You know who else was a "a highly regulated public company with
       | regular disclosures"?
       | 
       | Enron
        
       | creeble wrote:
       | Who is "Cash App's partner bank", and can I short _their_ stock?
        
         | creeble wrote:
         | Unlikely: OTCPK:LBPC
         | 
         | oh well.
        
       | RobLach wrote:
       | All signals pointing towards Hindenburg report hitting home.
        
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       (page generated 2023-03-23 23:03 UTC)