[HN Gopher] Do Kwon arrested in Montenegro: Interior Minister
___________________________________________________________________
Do Kwon arrested in Montenegro: Interior Minister
Author : janmo
Score : 312 points
Date : 2023-03-23 14:48 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.coindesk.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.coindesk.com)
| timcavel wrote:
| [dead]
| [deleted]
| b0sk wrote:
| It's time to remind everyone that "Have fun staying poor" was one
| of Do Kwon's favorite putdowns.
| janmo wrote:
| I will remember the "I am not on the run"
|
| -> Shows up at the airport with a fake passport
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| My "not on the run" t-shirt has a lot of people asked
| questions already answered by my shirt.
| smcl wrote:
| Context for those who might have missed out on a golden era
| of Twitter: https://twitter.com/shutupmikeginn/status/40335
| 9911481839617
| henry2023 wrote:
| This is gold
| arbuge wrote:
| Worth a lot more than the worthless coins he was hawking
| then.
| Apocryphon wrote:
| Between this and the Justin Sun news yesterday is this some kind
| of crypto crackdown?
| paulpauper wrote:
| Justin Sun is a free man, and its possible he will remain free
| if he complies (pays a big fine). SEC charging someone with
| fraud is not the same as the feds indicting him.
| throwaway290 wrote:
| He's wanted in Korea though.
|
| edit: the other guy. got lost in the thread I guess
| 55555 wrote:
| No, that's Do Kwon. Justin Sun is possibly wanted in China,
| though? I'm not sure.
| throw1234651234 wrote:
| There is a crackdown on Coinbase today too:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35267692
| ac29 wrote:
| He was arrested using a fake passport (or some other falsified
| document) in an airport. Sounds like the timing was just
| coincidental.
| nashashmi wrote:
| And he may have been desperately on the run after the
| crackdown on everyone else
| [deleted]
| 1270018080 wrote:
| More of a financial fraud crackdown
| web3-is-a-scam wrote:
| same thing
| arcticbull wrote:
| Justin Sun and Do Kwon are [edit for clarity: among] the worst
| of the space, so IMO, this represents a crackdown on scammers
| not on the ecosystem.
|
| Everyone should like this, even me :)
| polygamous_bat wrote:
| > Justin Sun and Do Kwon are the worst of the space...
|
| Among the worst, I would say; the other three top spots go to
| Sam Bankman Fried of FTX, Changpeng Zhao of Binance, and
| whatever specter is running Tether.
| whimsicalism wrote:
| e: misremembered details
| fastball wrote:
| I thought Tether was associated with Bitfinex, not
| Binance.
| whimsicalism wrote:
| absolutely, mental slip up
| fdasiljvalkj wrote:
| I get SBF, that's easy. And Tether. But why is Changpeng
| Zhao a bad actor? Legitimate question, not trying to be a
| crypto apolegist)
| arcticbull wrote:
| Start with the Tai Chi documents. [1] They've been kicked
| out of half the major jurisdictions in the world.
|
| [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2020/
| 10/29/l...
| paulpauper wrote:
| Michael Saylor , Cathie Wood, Balaji, and Chamath, should
| also be included. The people with huge platforms who
| promote crypto are as culpable as the exchanges that sell
| it.
| lottin wrote:
| Also Alex Gladstein, maybe the most hideous of all crypto
| influencers. The man is promoting this trash under the
| guise of human rights advocacy.
| wslh wrote:
| As someone working in the space since 2014, there is a much
| longer list. DYOR.
| arcticbull wrote:
| lol, trust me, I've been following very closely too since
| about 2017. I think these folks are S tier. Not that
| there's not a ton more. It's hard to point to someone who
| did more damage to the space than Kwon in terms of sheer
| notional value and confidence destruction. I mostly follow
| this space for the drama and crime so I'm pretty up to date
| on the, er, personalities involved.
| soulofmischief wrote:
| It's great you've taken an interest, but crypto has been
| around for much longer than 2017 and the lunacy traces
| back way further.
| arcticbull wrote:
| Of course, I've dug through the history. There's some
| really good stuff in the early days, the pirateat40 /
| Trendon Shavers scam is a classic. I wasn't there for it,
| of course, before my time. Learning about the history of
| the space is super fun though, especially when it has the
| collective memory of a goldfish :)
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _especially when it has the collective memory of a
| goldfish_
|
| Any book or podcast recommendations for a long-view
| historical surmisement?
| arcticbull wrote:
| There's always Attack of the 50 Foot Blockchain :)
| wslh wrote:
| Based on public information only, SBF could be perfectly
| added to your tier.
| onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
| Probably starting with everyone involved in Tether and
| BitFinex...
| web3-is-a-scam wrote:
| Coinbase, a publically traded exchange, was also served a
| Wells Notice. This is a crackdown on the system.
|
| I would put money that as soon as they can figure out where
| the hell CZ is, that Binance is next in line.
| hammock wrote:
| Yes. Add to your list the seizure of Signature Bank, and this
| week's rumors of Operation Choke Point 2.0 focused on keeping
| commercial banks out of crypto
| jamiek88 wrote:
| Crypto was a drop in the ocean.
|
| It just not that important.
|
| Something like 3% of the holdings of signature.
| [deleted]
| pakyr wrote:
| Boggles the mind that people are actually taking people like
| Nic Carter and Barney Frank at face value (that latter one is
| particularly egregious considering he's literally a former
| director of the bank) when they say that the FDIC seized a
| bank with $110 billion in holdings solely to target $4
| billion in crypto. Believe it or not, the Fed doesn't care
| enough about crypto to start a regional banking crisis and
| blow up hundreds of billions of dollars.
| codehalo wrote:
| The dinosaurs at the FED feel just the same as all those on
| this site that blather on bitterly about crypto waiting for
| it die. I can't wait to read the salty howling at end of
| the year when crypto is at an all time high.
| SamReidHughes wrote:
| It was shut down by New York, not the FDIC.
| pakyr wrote:
| Even better; New York State absolutely has no reason to
| set off a regional banking crisis and shut down a bank
| with $110 billion in deposits over $4 billion in crypto.
| [deleted]
| duxup wrote:
| Pretty sure Signature was taken over because they were in
| financial trouble.
| hammock wrote:
| "Barney Frank Was Right About Signature Bank. The FDIC all
| but confirms it closed the bank over crypto."
|
| https://archive.is/MEADq#selection-133.5-137.57
|
| "Everything But the Crypto: Flagstar Scoops Up Failed
| Signature Bank. While the Federal Deposit Insurance
| Corporation (FDIC) denied reports that any buyer of
| Signature Bank would need to divest its crypto business,
| the buyer, New York Community Bancorp-owned Flagstar Bank,
| did anyway."
|
| https://www.pymnts.com/cryptocurrency/2023/everything-but-
| th...
| robbiep wrote:
| Flagstar decided 'shit no, I'm not going to take over a
| book of shitty crypto assets valued at god knows what
| they could be a massive liability'.
|
| The key validator here is that they also dumped a heap of
| mortgages and loans that they considered toxic. The value
| of these other assets that Flagstar decided to not write
| into their purchase agreement was $60 billion under
| current accounting.
|
| They just decided that the crypto is no good. Along with
| 60 bn worth of other stuff. And they can stick that with
| the FDIC to deal with.
|
| [0] https://newsletterhunt.com/emails/27219 (last
| section, meanwhile in America)
| ezekiel68 wrote:
| What is this world coming to when Crypto renegades can no longer
| flee to Montenegro using falsified documents? This must somehow
| be seen as yet another nail in the coffin of Big centralized fiat
| currency. /s
| noloblo wrote:
| finally ! also interesting tidbit from the montenegro article
| do kwon after saying was not on the lam from leo was traveling
| with falsified documents. montenegro waiting for
| interpol/s.korea to confirm do's identity
| Cardinal7167 wrote:
| They're only clamping down now cause Big Bank is in real
| trouble! /s
| medo-bear wrote:
| Fun fact: Montenegro has the longest serving head of state in
| Europe, Mile Djukanovic, probably making even Lukashenko of
| Belorus jealous. But don't worry, despite widespread
| accusations and suspicions of corruption, nepotism, and even
| drug trafficking, he is our ally... and hence not a dictator
| SECProto wrote:
| > despite widespread accusations and suspicions of
| corruption, nepotism, and even drug trafficking, he is our
| ally... and hence not a dictator
|
| Being a dictator means [1] to have absolute power. There are
| dictators that are friendly with the west and others that are
| not so much. Use of the term is orthogonal to whether or not
| a given country is an ally (other than that word choice can
| have ramifications)
|
| Montenegro is regarded by a number of rankings [2] as being a
| hybrid regime, i.e. somewhere in between authoritarian and
| democratic. The results of the 2020 election [3] match that.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictator
|
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_regime#Measurement
|
| [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Montenegrin_parliament
| ary...
| kelnos wrote:
| The point that the parent was making was that "dictator"
| has a very negative connotation, and the cynical take is
| that if the West likes you, they wouldn't call you
| something negative, even when that's what you are. So he's
| _wink_ "not a dictator" _wink_.
| ganbatekudasai wrote:
| Right, but the point of the comment you answered to, is
| that this cynical take does not work if Montenegro does
| not _actually_ happen to be a dictatorship, friendly to
| the west or not.
|
| Note that I have absolutely no idea whether Montenegro is
| or isn't a dictatorship, but the intention of all
| commenters here was clear.
| lo_zamoyski wrote:
| ChatGPT? Is that you?
| ChainOfFools wrote:
| Just because text has a rather Brainy Smurf tone to it
| does not necessarily mean it was generated by ChadGPT
| jacquesm wrote:
| But not unbroken. Meanwhile, NL has had the same MP for the
| last 13 years, and this in spite of the government falling in
| that period.
| gnarbarian wrote:
| funny how that works.
| nsajko wrote:
| His party didn't win the most votes in the 2020 elections,
| though, so he's currently only the President. The president
| is, like in many other European countries, not very powerful.
| More info:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo_%C4%90ukanovi%C4%87
| arcticbull wrote:
| I was under the impression Prime Minister is the less
| powerful role, and President is usually synonymous with
| head of state.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| Usually, in a system with both, the Prime Minister is
| head of government (which is more powerful) and the
| President is head of state which typically has ceremonial
| precedence but less practical power.
|
| There's considerable variations, though, and some starkly
| exceptional Presidential systems that have an official
| called a Prime Minister (having both is more typical of a
| parliamentary republic).
| skissane wrote:
| Contemporary republics exist in three main forms:
|
| 1. Presidential republics - President is both head of
| state and head of government. No Prime Minister.
| Examples: US, most Latin American countries
|
| 2. Parliamentary republics - President is head of state,
| Prime Minister is head of government. President is mostly
| a symbolic figurehead with little real power; if they
| have any real power at all, it is generally only
| exercisable in times of constitutional crisis. Examples:
| Ireland, Malta, Germany, Austria, Israel
|
| 3. Semi-presidential republics. President is head of
| state, Prime Minister is head of government. Both have
| real substantive powers. Often, the PM is in charge of
| domestic policy, the President is in charge of military
| and foreign affairs. Examples: France, Russia, Finland
| (traditionally at least, it has been becoming more
| parliamentary)
|
| Montenegro is officially considered parliamentary not
| semipresidential. However, the boundary between the two
| is not always clearcut - there is a near infinity of ways
| to divide power between a President and PM, and some
| parliamentary republics have much more powerful
| presidents than others
|
| There are also oddball republics which don't fit into any
| of those categories, like Switzerland (collective head of
| state) or San Marino (two equal heads of state at the
| same time)
| nsajko wrote:
| See:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_of_government
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_of_state
|
| > A head of state (or chief of state) is the public
| persona who officially embodies a state[1] in its unity
| and legitimacy. Depending on the country's form of
| government and separation of powers, the head of state
| may be a ceremonial figurehead or concurrently the head
| of government and more [...]
| arcticbull wrote:
| Yep they're not the same, but usually the head of
| government is the head of state in presidential systems.
|
| [edit] In fact... "President is a common title for the
| head of state in most republics. The president of a
| nation is, generally speaking, the head of the government
| and the fundamental leader of the country or the
| ceremonial head of state." [1]
|
| Anyways interesting stuff.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_(government_t
| itle)
| tasuki wrote:
| Yes, in presidential systems, sure. But who was talking
| about those here?
|
| Montenegro is a parliamentary republic, and vast majority
| of Europe is either a parliamentary republic or a
| constitutional monarchy [0]
|
| [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_system#/m
| edia/Fil...
| arcticbull wrote:
| I didn't say anyone was wrong, it was just an
| observation. Either way the only delta is that I would
| consider the head of state more important/powerful than
| the head of government who is more active. Just a
| perspective thing.
| touisteur wrote:
| Only in France? In Germany, Poland, Portugal (for
| example) power is mostly concentrated in PM role.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| Russia post-2000 is another example, though in that case
| it is probably more accurate to say power is mostly
| concentrated in Putin whether he is PM or President, not
| a particular office.
| 0x457 wrote:
| Russia didn't have PM at all until Putin decided to work
| around the constitution.
| bilekas wrote:
| In Ireland at least the president is 90%< symbolic.
| medo-bear wrote:
| > The president is, like in many other European countries,
| not very powerful
|
| Montenegro is definitely not like many other European
| countries. If anything it is like a region of one European
| country, namely Sicily
|
| https://www.occrp.org/en/poy/2015/
|
| https://leaderssummit.medium.com/joe-biden-milo-
| djukanovic-t...
| tlogan wrote:
| But real power is under Zdravko Krivokapic (prime minister).
| And Zdravo (pro Serbian) does like Mile (pro Montenegro).
| activitypea wrote:
| Isn't Montenegro also the youngest country in Europe?
| Depending on if you count Kosovo, I suppose.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| I mean, Montenegro is at best tied with Serbia, whether or
| not you count Kosovo.
| nsajko wrote:
| The answer is that Dukanovic was in charge even back when
| Montenegro was a constituent Republic of Yugoslavia, see
| the timeline here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo_%C4%9
| 0ukanovi%C4%87#Timel...
| steveBK123 wrote:
| What is the point of having a zillion magic internet moneys if
| you can't get yourself off the financial grid and living in a
| non-extradition country?
|
| Cmon. What a bunch of jokers.
|
| I think it's a hugely bearish case for crypto that none of the
| crypto guys have been able to use it to avoid authorities for
| more than a few weeks/months.
|
| That's literally one of its alleged use cases. "The government
| can't control it".
|
| SBF, Do Kwon, the Bitmex guys, how's that worked out for
| everyone?
| cuteboy19 wrote:
| The safemoon guys are free, Logan Paul remains free, many
| smalltime pump and dumpers remain free. Though this is a
| product of lax enforcement rather than crypto itself
| steveBK123 wrote:
| Yes its really just lax enforcement at this point. When it
| sporadically turns on, they net a bunch of these guys again,
| in waves.
|
| The US has a very expansive view of jurisdiction when it
| comes to financial dealings with Americans, dealings with
| American companies, dealings within the US, transacting in US
| dollars or US dollar derivatives. Crypto largely ends up
| triggering 1 or more of these.
|
| Nonetheless it does seem to be failing at its job of being
| immune from governments if you are still going to end up in
| jail / having to pay billon dollar settlements in "fiat" to
| avoid jail, etc.
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| > That's literally one of its alleged use cases. "The
| government can't control it". > > SBF, Do Kwon, the Bitmex
| guys, how's that worked out for everyone?
|
| Well the government still, so far, cannot make it so that
| there's more than 21 million Bitcoins.
|
| So in that sense they cannot control Bitcoin.
|
| Those you mentioned and the likes of Justin Sun (now charged
| for fraud), Mark Karpeles (from MtGox fame, who server prison
| time), the Quadriga guy, Crypsy, etc. have all one thing in
| common: they "exit scammed" / "rug pulled" / ponzi'ed and
| whatnots.
|
| The government collect taxes on realized gains honest people
| make selling cryptocurrencies they legally bought? The
| government send the likes of SBF to jail.
|
| As simple as that.
| sacrosancty wrote:
| [dead]
| [deleted]
| adamnemecek wrote:
| Should have gone to Transnistria.
| janmo wrote:
| He was arrested at the airport, it is unclear if he was trying
| to enter or leave Montenegro. I can imagine he was trying to go
| somewhere else.
| input_sh wrote:
| It's not exactly a big airport, not a lot of flights:
| https://montenegroairports.com/en/podgorica-airport/
|
| His last known whereabouts were in Serbia, and Belgrade -
| Podgorica have about five flights per day both ways.
| janmo wrote:
| If he flew from Serbia to Montenegro it would have just
| been completely dumb, crossing the land border would have
| been much safer for him. I suspect he was trying to leave
| for somewhere very far away but his Passport did not fool
| the airport staff
| notch898a wrote:
| The question is why he wouldn't cross the land border and
| then fly from there. Customs is rarely checking passports
| as thoroughly on the way out as on the way in. The
| thinking was probably the risk was the same since he was
| entering the airport anyway, but failed to account for
| risk of having passport checked in then out instead of
| just out.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Only thing about a land border between Serbia and
| Montenegro is that they might get even more suspicious
| than an airport about WhyTF a random Korean is there.
| janmo wrote:
| You can just hike your way around the border
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Problem is leaving at the airport, if they check and see
| your entry isn't registered anywhere. Still could work if
| you plan on staying forever, hiking out, or flying
| private because only normies can do bad things and need
| to have their movements subject to scrutiny.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _flying private because only normies can do bad things
| and need to have their movements subject to scrutiny_
|
| You still go through customs when flying private.
| input_sh wrote:
| Where very far away? There are fine destinations:
| Belgrade, Istanbul, Vienna, Manchester, Varna (Bulgaria).
|
| I wouldn't say any of them were a particularly smart
| choice.
| smcl wrote:
| Istanbul might not be an awful shout tbh, though if I was
| wanted internationally and I'd successfully entered
| somewhere Montenegro I'd probably sit tight for a while.
| It's a small country, but it's quite nice and you could
| probably fly under the radar for a while if you kept your
| nose clean.
| krisoft wrote:
| > There are fine destinations: Belgrade, Istanbul,
| Vienna, Manchester, Varna (Bulgaria).
|
| I assume these are the commercial destinations. Is it out
| of the question that he chartered a flight?
| thejackgoode wrote:
| You might need to update estimations about Transnistria's mid-
| term availability
| notch898a wrote:
| Weev went to transnistria, stayed the 1 year it takes to get
| the passport, and then somehow is living in Ukraine off that
| passport despite the fact it isn't even recognized by
| Ukraine. There's also several other 'microstates' that
| recognize Transnistria's passport, so presumably once you
| have it you can stay in one of those places. If a fugitive
| doesn't mind living in a bumfuck mountain or desert with
| nothing but a cow and a woman they'll probably be fine.
| hackernewds wrote:
| Not gonna lie, I thought Transnistria was a fictional place
| based on a play of words on "transit". What is it?
| [deleted]
| pjc50 wrote:
| It's a mess that's not important enough for anyone to
| fix. An international incident that has been frozen in
| time. One of the last surviving fragments of the cold
| war. Neighbouring countries recognize its documents
| because not doing so would be even more of a goddamn
| headache.
|
| You can, with moderate determination, take a day trip
| there. https://www.mywanderlust.pl/daytrip-to-
| transnistria/
| jcranmer wrote:
| Transnistria is a sliver of Moldova that declared itself
| independent after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
| It's one of the tiny unrecognized statelets that's almost
| entirely propped up by the Russian government as a way of
| maintaining frozen conflicts.
|
| (I really do mean sliver: it's 20 miles wide at its
| widest point; even The Gambia--a country which exists
| along the shores of the river of the same name--manages
| to get wider).
|
| The conflict gained a resurgence of relevance in the past
| year after the latest Russian invasion of Ukraine, over
| fears that the Russian military might attempt to launch
| an invasion axis from Transnistria, or at least seek to
| establish a continuous corridor from Transnistria to
| Russia. And even more recently, the Moldovan governmental
| instability has also fueled fears that Russia might try
| to use Transnistria as leverage in Moldova.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| A narrow little breakaway state that used to be and/or
| still is part of Moldova. It borders Moldova and Ukraine.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria
| smcl wrote:
| A breakaway part of Moldova, broadly aligned with Russia
| and/or the former USSR
| pakyr wrote:
| Is he actually still in Ukraine? Google says he was living
| in Kharkiv, but given it became a front-line city, I doubt
| he would've stayed.
| actionfromafar wrote:
| You could do worse, sounds like a retreat. :-)
| m3kw9 wrote:
| He is probably better off getting caught and get his sentence
| over with than to live watching his back betting a country won't
| turn him in for decades
| notch898a wrote:
| Have you ever been in a jail cell? Almost every day in the US
| you see someone who decides to go out with guns blazing rather
| than go back.
| consumer451 wrote:
| This sounds like Hollywood reality for white collar.
|
| Here is actual reality:
|
| > "Hey Do, I just want to let you know, jail is not that
| bad," Shkreli said. "So don't fret - I hope it doesn't
| happen. If it does happen ... it's not that bad."
|
| - Martin Shkreli
|
| https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/08/pharma-bro-
| mart...
| jongjong wrote:
| I suspect that a lot of decent people go to jail nowadays.
| That would explain why jails aren't so bad and why
| different facilities are so inconsistent. I can imagine a
| day when good people will be in jail and bad people will be
| outside running them. I think in some countries, this is
| not far from reality.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| The general rule of thumb, is that, if it's nonviolent, and
| less than ten years, it's Camp Cupcake (minimum security
| -no walls).
|
| If it's over a decade, or violent/escape risk, then it's
| Leavenworth.
|
| I've known folks that have done both.
| notch898a wrote:
| The lesson learned from Ross Ulbricht is that there's a
| good chance it's Leavenworth for non-violent internet
| crime.
|
| Edit: per usual folks come out of the woodwork to accuse
| Ross of murder-for-hire despite the fact he was not
| convicted of any murder related charge, only generic
| conspiracies for which the overt act could have been a
| number of options (such as drug distribution). The jury
| never specifically said the overt act they convicted the
| conspiracy was murder for hire, yet the judge sentenced
| him as if he were guilty of that.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I believe that ol' Dreaddie got just a _wee_ bit more
| than ten years.
| paulpauper wrote:
| and likely so will SBF
|
| white collar sentences are so long these days.
| [deleted]
| jamiek88 wrote:
| Ross literally hired hitmen to kill someone who owed him
| money.
|
| The fact that he didn't know it was an undercover agent
| (pro tip if you hire a hit man and you aren't customarily
| in 'that life' you are _always_ hiring an undercover
| agent) is irrelevant.
|
| He still required and received 'proof' of the deed, a
| photo of the aftermath, staged of course.
|
| He was even cold blooded with the 'collateral damage' of
| the intended victims family being home when the hit was
| to go down.
|
| All this was taken into account at sentencing.
|
| The attempt to whitewash Ross into a sympathetic internet
| hero figure like Aaron Swartz is transparent and wrong.
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| If that actually happened, why didn't they prosecute him
| for it?
| [deleted]
| vkou wrote:
| Because the other stuff he did was also enough to put him
| away forever.
|
| The better question is: "Why are people so insistant on
| whitewashing him?" Do they not think that hiring a
| contract killer is, like, no big deal? Do they regularly
| pretend to hire them? Are they just closing ranks around
| him because they think he's part of their in-tribe?
| kelnos wrote:
| I think the point is that justice shouldn't be arbitrary
| like that.
|
| If you are convicted of certain crimes, your sentence --
| even within the range appropriate for those crimes --
| should not take into account other crimes that the person
| was suspected of committing, but it couldn't be proven
| beyond a reasonable doubt.
|
| That's the entire point of evidentiary standards: in the
| first place, it's to avoid putting people in jail at all
| if we can't prove they did it to a particular level of
| confidence. But we should also not be inflating sentences
| (again, even if the end result is still within the guided
| range for the convicted crimes) just because we think
| they did other, worse things too.
|
| Maybe Ulbrict did deserve a much longer sentence. But the
| prosecution apparently could not prove the more serious
| crimes. His sentence should not be influenced by things
| the prosecution could not prove. I'm sure there are other
| defendants who were convicted of crimes, but suspected of
| worse crimes that they didn't actually commit in reality.
| Maybe Ulbricht got what he deserved, but these other
| people got worse than they deserved.
|
| > _Do they not think that hiring a contract killer is,
| like, no big deal?_
|
| To sum up: what people think about this is entirely
| irrelevant. He was not convicted for hiring a contract
| killer, so that should have zero bearing on his sentence.
| Even if his sentence was in the range appropriate for
| what he was convicted for, it's a _range_ , and if his
| sentence was pushed higher in that range because of other
| things the judge believed he did, that's not justice.
| AbrahamParangi wrote:
| He was indicted in federal court for it but his
| indictment was dropped after he was sentenced to life
| imprisonment without the possibility of parole.
|
| There does seem to be very little point in winning a
| conviction on that front.
| notch898a wrote:
| But yet not evidence he was convicted of anything but
| non-violent internet crime.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _not evidence he was convicted of anything but non-
| violent internet crime_
|
| I'm not sure where one is supposed to find sympathy for
| someone convicted of a crime, and looking likely to have
| attempted violent crimes, having their sentence
| strengthened on the latter's basis (within the confines
| of the primary sentence's guidelines).
|
| Should Al Capone have been treated like a usual tax
| dodger? Of course not. He's a high risk to others in his
| prison as well as to society. We don't require beyond
| reasonable doubt for sentencing because it doesn't make
| sense.
| kelnos wrote:
| That seems to be a pretty weird view to me.
|
| If you're convicted of crime X, you should be sentenced
| base on crime X, not on what other things everyone
| believes you actually did, but for which sufficient
| evidence can't be found to convict.
|
| You seem to be advocating for a legal system where it's
| fine to punish people for things they haven't actually
| been convicted of doing. Regardless of what we may think
| of Al Capone, or "know" that he did, I think I would much
| rather let an Al-Capone-type off with the comparatively
| light sentence of a tax-dodger, than risk a harsh
| sentence for someone who didn't do the unproven things
| that people nevertheless "know" they did. Because of
| _course_ that will happen.
| notch898a wrote:
| The genius of many conspiracy charges is the crime is
| basically "did bad stuff" where "bad stuff" is anything
| from drug distribution to murder.
|
| So whether ross killed or distributed the drugs, he was
| guilty of X.
|
| The genius of the conspiracy charge is the jury can be
| convinced of drug distribution but not the murder. And
| the judge could be convinced it was murder and not
| distribution. But they both fall under "bad stuff" so the
| judge isn't even wrong when they sentence him for "bad
| stuff" as murder is "bad stuff."
|
| The fact that the elements of bad stuff for the judge is
| different than elements of bad stuff for the jury is
| almost an after thought. And hey, you can't say he didn't
| do bad stuff.
|
| Taken this to the extreme, I wonder if someday they will
| have a crime that is just called "felony." The jury just
| has to be convinced you smoked a left handed cigarette,
| at which point obviously you're guilty of "felony." Then
| the judge can promptly forget about the cigarette and
| decide on preponderance of the evidence just what
| elemenst of "felony" you comitted and sentence that based
| on what she thinks is more likely than not.
| notch898a wrote:
| Should Al Capone have been treated like a usual tax
| dodger?
|
| Of course. Al Capone being cited so often is precisely
| why I believe he should have been treated like a usual
| tax dodger for the tax crimes and treated like a murderer
| for any murder convictions. I would much rather Al Capone
| go free than short-circuit justice in this way.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _short-circuit justice in this way_
|
| I'm failing to see the short circuiting. Tax dodging
| sentencing guidelines have a range. Capone was sentenced
| within that range. Same as Ulbricht. We don't re-hear a
| trial in front of a jury every time someone is sentenced
| because the jury has already rendered the verdict.
|
| Sentencing is a complicated subject which balances not
| only justice, but also the safety of the prisoner and
| their fellow prisoners.
| notch898a wrote:
| Do you truly see nothing wrong with creating a generic
| conspiracy charge, showing beyond a reasonable doubt that
| some element of that conspiracy was true, and then saying
| "sentence him for any element the judge finds true by
| preponderance of the evidence, no matter if that was the
| element(s) on which the jury convicted him."
|
| I can't say I'm thrilled that the standard is guilty
| beyond reasonable doubt, unless we find you guilty of
| some other element, in which case murder-for-hire
| magically becomes preponderance of evidence. I will say
| the justice system and society agrees with you, so I
| acknowledge this is one of those times I just have to sit
| here with a profound sadness about something over which I
| have little control.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _the standard is guilty beyond reasonable of a doubt,
| unless we find you guilty of some other element, in which
| case murder-for-hire magically becomes preponderance of
| evidence_
|
| You're dodging the fact that the sentence was given for
| the convicted crime within that crime's sentencing
| guidelines. Juries don't give sentences, judges do. What
| if not looking at additional factors do you think the
| judge is supposed to be doing?
|
| If the crimes Ulbricht had been convicted of had a
| 10-year maximum, and the judge sentenced him to more on
| the basis of a preponderance of evidence, I'd see your
| point. But that isn't what happened.
| kelnos wrote:
| But I think the people in this subthread believe that the
| judge's possible _belief_ that Ulbricht had committed
| other, violent crimes influenced his sentencing decision.
|
| That is, in the absence of suspicion of other crimes, he
| would have gotten a much less severe sentence.
|
| I get that judges have to use all sorts of discretion
| when doing sentencing, and despite the "points system"
| around that, still have some leeway. My view is that
| judges should not be looking at other crimes that they
| may believe the defendant has committed -- even if they
| were not charged or not convicted -- and include that
| information in their sentencing decisions. I can't say
| for certain, of course, that's what happened here.
|
| Maybe in Ulbrict's case, justice actually was served.
| Maybe he did those other things, and in a perfect world,
| sufficient evidence would have been found, and he would
| have been convicted of more serious charges. But we don't
| live in that perfect world, and for every Ulbricht who
| gets this "correct" treatment, there are certainly
| several others who get an overly-harsh sentence (still
| within guidelines, but harsher than is warranted) because
| people _believe_ they did other stuff that couldn 't be
| proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
| kelnos wrote:
| > _Tax dodging sentencing guidelines have a range. Capone
| was sentenced within that range._
|
| Presumably the implication here is that he was sentenced
| at the high end of that range. Was his sentence
| appropriate for the severity of his tax dodge, or was it
| pushed to the higher end of the range because of his
| other crimes, that he was never convicted of?
|
| If the latter, then that's a real problem!
| Analemma_ wrote:
| I think the people constantly repeating this line don't
| understand how prosecutions actually work. Since all
| crimes have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to get
| a conviction, and some take more work/paper trail to do
| this than others, if someone is up on a bunch of charges,
| prosecutors will order them by easiest-to-hardest to
| prove, and then if the easiest ones are sufficient to put
| the person away for life, they'll focus on those and
| discard the rest.
|
| This happens all the time. It is not unique to Ulbricht,
| and does not really imply anything about whether the
| contract killing request did or didn't happen.
| notch898a wrote:
| Ross was convicted on the generic conspiracy (which does
| not depend on violent acts) and then sentenced on
| _preponderance of the evidence_ of the individual
| possible overt act that one of the conspiracy acts was
| murder for hire. Not sentenced based on beyond reasonable
| doubt he did the murder for hire.
|
| The fact is the way "prosecution actually works" is you
| accuse someone of a generic conspiracy, show some element
| of the conspiracy was beyond a reasonable doubt true
| (like drug distribution), and then go to sentencing
| considering any element by preponderance of the evidence.
| It's a chilling short-circuiting of justice. Ross wasn't
| convicted of violent acts beyond a reasonable doubt, he
| was convicted of a continuing criminal enterprise where a
| judge thought it was more likely than not involved
| murder-for-hire.
| kelnos wrote:
| But that's exactly the point: Ulbricht was _not_
| convicted of a violent crime (regardless of what people
| here believe or don 't believe he actually did), and yet
| he was sentenced as if he had been.
|
| That is literally the only point the ancestor poster was
| making: that if you have the means to run, it might not
| be so cushy a plan to turn yourself in for a non-violent
| crime, if you're assuming you'll get a sentence of less
| than 10 years at a reasonably safe low-security prison.
|
| And in this particular case, the interesting point is:
| even if the prosecution didn't believe they could get a
| conviction for possible murder-for-hire charges, they
| somehow still got the desired final outcome: a sentence
| seemingly harsher than what would fit the crime he
| actually was convicted of.
|
| (Then again, if your "only" crimes are non-violent/white-
| collar, maybe it _is_ safe to assume you 'll get a cushy
| prison sentence.)
| toss1 wrote:
| Just like most habitual criminals, even serial murderers
| -- focusing limited resources on the easier-to-convict
| and sufficient-jail-time crimes. Nothing says they have
| to prosecute every single crime. So, yes, just because it
| isn't prosecuted, doesn't mean there wasn't a crime
| committed, it just didn't result in a conviction.
|
| They already got a life in prison and forfeiting
| $183,961,921 [0]. They don't need more, and there are
| other criminals to prosecute.
|
| [0] https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/ross-ulbricht-
| aka-dread...
| temprose wrote:
| Same reason Al Capone was taken down on tax evasion
| charges.
| paulpauper wrote:
| Bigly difference between a few years at camp jail vs. life
| or decade + at medium or worse facility. Significant white
| collar fraud that entails a longer than 10 year sentence
| would likely be served at a medium, not a camp, due to
| flight risk. I think Do Kwan would get the latter (assuming
| he is extradited to US, charged, sentenced, etc.).
| ctvo wrote:
| > Have you ever been in a jail cell? Almost every day in the
| US you see someone who decides to go out with guns blazing
| rather than go back.
|
| ... what? Who are these people going out in a blaze of glory
| rather than returning to prison?
|
| Considering there are millions of ex-cons, many who will be
| repeat offenders, we should be seeing many more of these
| people going out "guns blazing" rather than returning to
| prison, yeah? Or did you pull this fun fact from a viewing of
| The Town?
| notch898a wrote:
| google 'felon warrant fires police'
|
| I'm honestly shocked I'm forced to even cite that this
| happens. Although I suppose if someone has lived in America
| and made it to adulthood without acknowledging the stories
| they aren't going to be convinced.
| duxup wrote:
| I don't think that search result would support your
| statement.
| tehwebguy wrote:
| Yeah, they don't.
| mrcode007 wrote:
| He said google. Not bing ;-P
|
| Plenty of shootings involving felons on parole in the
| news.
| xapata wrote:
| News articles are biased towards likelihood of clicks.
| kube-system wrote:
| Shootings in my local news basically fall into two
| categories, drug related disputes on the bad side of
| town, or people shooting at police when they show up.
|
| This returns a decent number of relevant and recent
| results:
|
| https://duckduckgo.com/?q=+shot+serving+warrant&iar=news&
| ia=...
| kelnos wrote:
| That only tells us about when it _does_ happen. We also
| need to know how many times it _doesn 't_ happen. If we
| see 250 suspects per year shooting at cops when served a
| warrant, but 50,000 surrendering relatively peacefully,
| then I don't know that we have a big problem.
|
| Sure, 250 per year might support the statement "Almost
| every day in the US you see someone who decides to go out
| with guns blazing rather than go back", but that doesn't
| mean it's common.
|
| Put another way, 250 people doing this per year could be
| considered "almost every day", but I'm not sure 250
| people in a country of more than 350M doing something
| exceedingly, dangerously irrational is cause for concern,
| or even more than a shrug.
|
| Also: your search result page doesn't say what you think
| it does. I clicked through a few of them, and many of
| them just talk about warrants in general (even search
| warrants, not arrest warrants) where no shooting occurred
| at all. On one of them I noticed that the word "shot"
| appeared in the "related stories" links at the bottom, in
| a case that had nothing to do with an arrest warrant or
| police.
| [deleted]
| phphphphp wrote:
| He'll be watching his back in prison, he's got access to
| billions of dollars -- or, at least, is perceived to. He has
| wronged a lot of people, too. Also, prison is a one way street:
| if he stays on the run, and some day things do get to the point
| where he would feel safer in prison, he could hand himself in.
| Once he's in prison, he has no choice left.
| kijin wrote:
| The South Korean justice system is notoriously lenient on
| white-collar crime, and it's exceedingly rare even for
| violent criminals to be murdered in a Korean prison. The
| popular perception is that you can spend a couple of years in
| prison and enjoy your ill-gotten gains for the rest of your
| life with no further repercussions, provided you've hidden
| your money well enough. Guess what, the whole point of crypto
| is that it's easy to hide.
|
| A few years ago, a man named Son Jung-woo was arrested for
| running what was the largest child porn site in the world
| back then. His sentence? 18 months. The U.S. wanted to put
| him away for life, but the Korean courts would not deport
| him.
|
| I'm sure Do Kwon would rather hand himself in to the Korean
| authorities than risk going to prison in any other country.
| vkou wrote:
| > The South Korean justice system is notoriously lenient on
| white-collar crime,
|
| Then we should pray he gets extradited somewhere else.
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| > The U.S. wanted to put him away for life, but the Korean
| courts would not deport him.
|
| Wouldn't the right word here be "extradite", or was he a US
| citizen?
| paulpauper wrote:
| _Guess what, the whole point of crypto is that it 's easy
| to hide_
|
| The opposite: hard to hide (thanks to blockchain) but also
| impossible to confiscate (assuming you did it right or
| don't cave in).
| xapata wrote:
| > impossible to confiscate
|
| If the purpose of the confiscation is simply to freeze
| the funds, it seems many agencies can do so. If they're
| patient enough, they'll eventually catch the owner when
| the funds move.
| 0xcafefood wrote:
| >A few years ago, a man named Son Jung-woo was arrested for
| running what was the largest child porn site in the world
| back then. His sentence? 18 months. The U.S. wanted to put
| him away for life, but the Korean courts would not deport
| him.
|
| This was the subject of the "Welcome to Video" episode of
| Darknet Diaries[1]. IIRC, he couldn't be extradited to the
| US because he was facing a lawsuit in Korea, one filed by
| his own father seemingly for precisely this side effect.
|
| [1] https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/131/
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _South Korean justice system is notoriously lenient on
| white-collar crime_
|
| Is this because of the courts or prosecutors? I don't see
| the latter being lenient with a fugitive.
| phphphphp wrote:
| So why _didn't_ he hand himself in? He's been on the run
| since last year, he has had numerous opportunities to hand
| himself in before being arrested in Montenegro.
| kijin wrote:
| He probably believed he could have his cake and eat it
| too. Turns out he's not as clever as he thought. Now the
| only thing he has some amount of control over is which
| jurisdiction he will be handed over to.
| noloblo wrote:
| which jurisdictions can he handed over to?
| nbar1 wrote:
| > the whole point of crypto is that it's easy to hide.
|
| This couldn't be further from the truth and shows how the
| majority of people do not understand the benefits that
| crypto offers.
| kijin wrote:
| Compared to bank accounts, real estate, and offshore
| corporations, it is certainly easier to hide your crypto
| (or rather, hide the fact that it's _your_ crypto) if you
| know what you 're doing. Heck, even the word "crypto"
| means "hidden".
|
| Do Kwon might not be any good at sneaking though
| airports, but he certainly knows his way around the
| crypto scene. He has had plenty of time to launder his
| coins. In fact, he's probably had more time to plan and
| execute an exit scheme than any of the other crooks who
| got busted lately. So I wouldn't underestimate how well
| he has hidden his embezzled billions.
| HDThoreaun wrote:
| Other than speculation the main use case of crypto is
| hiding money. Sure many people do it poorly, but it is
| possible and in fact the main use case.
| Cardinal7167 wrote:
| You could say this exact same thing about cash and be
| just as correct.
| CPLX wrote:
| No. The main use of cash is as a means for conducting
| transactions for goods and services.
| [deleted]
| Eisenstein wrote:
| Except transferring cash requires physically moving it,
| and it is heavy and bulky in large amounts.
| skc wrote:
| >>The South Korean justice system is notoriously lenient on
| white-collar crime
|
| Then I wonder why he didn't just turn himself in, do the
| time and come out after a couple years and enjoy his
| spoils.
|
| I'd imagine prison in SK is bearable enough.
| paulpauper wrote:
| depends if they send him to the US. Then it would be way worse
| rocket_surgeron wrote:
| Korean prisons make US prisons look like the Ritz Carlton.
|
| This may have changed since I lived there in the early 2000s,
| but they shave your head and make you perform hard labor for
| 12 hours a day, usually farming to raise most of the food
| that you will eat while incarcerated.
|
| In the South Korean Army, seniors beat juniors with impunity
| and abuse them so brazenly that US soldiers get briefings to
| "mind your own business" when they arrive and again before
| any joint operations with the ROKA-- and the prisons are
| worse. My roommate when I lived there was a KATUSA, a Korean
| soldier who spoke English who was embedded in the US Army,
| and he was happy every single day because every Korean male
| has to be in the army and "in the US army they don't beat the
| shit out of you".
|
| In the US a fraudster like Kwon will go to a facility like
| FCI Otisville.
|
| https://www.google.com/maps/place/41deg29'47.0%22N+74deg31'38
| .0%...
|
| Please note the tennis courts and baseball diamond.
| Eisenstein wrote:
| Have you seen a Korean prison or heard first hand accounts
| of people who have experienced it?
| rocket_surgeron wrote:
| You can see the prisoners toiling in the fields along
| every road a prison is located at, and there were several
| along the routes I drove weekly.
|
| The US-Korean SOFA (status of forces agreement) was
| amended in the mid-2000s to segregate US military
| personnel in Korean prisons from the general population
| and:
|
| 1. Allow them to bathe at least once every five days
|
| 2. Prevent forced labor requirements from exceeding 12
| hours per day
|
| 3. Provide food prepared to the standard of the US
| military in lieu of Korean food
|
| 4. Provide undergarments like underwear and socks to
| supplement their prison-issued smocks
|
| https://www.usfk.mil/Portals/105/Documents/Publications/R
| egu...
|
| Prior to this change labor often exceeded 12 hours per
| day, the physically larger US personnel were collapsing
| due to malnutrition, bathing was not permitted, nor were
| socks and underwear.
|
| When I was there, pre-SOFA amendment the briefings were
| very detailed about the conditions under which prisoners
| lived as part of a "scared straight" initiative-- "Don't
| fuck up or you'll wish you were in Leavenworth, here is
| the shit, with photos, of what South Korean prisoners go
| through."
|
| A British consulate guide notes the meagre diet and harsh
| conditions prisoners operate under.
|
| >Meals are adequate, but very Spartan. British Nationals
| sometimes cannot fully adjust to the Korean diet. Funds
| from the prison work programme can be used to buy a small
| quantity of supplemental foods.
|
| >The Korean authorities do not tolerate dissent from
| prisoners (e.g. assaulting or talking back to guards, or
| for refusing to co-operate or follow instructions). Their
| methods for handling dissent can be harsh, and on
| occasion has resulted in physical abuse. Such abuse is
| unacceptable, and we will take it up with the Korean
| authorities on your behalf if you so wish. You may also
| raise it with the National Human Rights Commission
| (NHRC).
|
| https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploa
| ds/...
| abudabi123 wrote:
| He could follow "Fat Leonard's" path out.
| jonathankoren wrote:
| Jesus that was just embarrassing. At least they recaptured
| him in Venezuela after a few days.
| popol12 wrote:
| Farewell, sweet prince
| ramesh31 wrote:
| It's always greed and hubris that does these people in. Who in
| their right mind would get on an international flight with an
| Interpol arrest warrant? He could have disappeared off to the
| countryside and lived in obscurity, but no. He went to
| _Montenegro_.
| celim307 wrote:
| Same people who run these kind of scams are often narcissistic.
| They are "so smart" they got away with the first crime, they
| believe they have a magic touch and can get away with anything.
|
| Plus these are not the type of people who would enjoy being
| disconnected from high society, they need external validation.
| throwaway290 wrote:
| If you had been to Montenegro, countryside and obscurity is not
| that far from truth...
| reducesuffering wrote:
| GP must be confused with Monaco or Montevideo
| [deleted]
| danrocks wrote:
| He's been charged in so many places that I am curious to know
| where he'll be deported to.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _curious to know where he 'll be deported to_
|
| It looks like Montenegro can extradite to Korea [1][2].
|
| [1] https://www.coe.int/en/web/transnational-criminal-justice-
| pc...
|
| [2]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Extradi...
| danrocks wrote:
| I'm sure Singapore and the US would like to have a word as
| well.
| polygamous_bat wrote:
| Will we see a stream of substack articles from him? Or will he
| keep his mouth shut, unlike the other visionary crypto genius
| billionaire?
| ardit33 wrote:
| Wrong country to hide. Montenegro is a Nato member, and a US
| ally, and will do whatever the US say.
|
| Dritan Abazovic (the prime minister) is himself half Albanian,
| half Montenegrin, and he is very pro western. You can't hide in
| pro US countries.
|
| He should have maybe taken a train to Serbia (not a US ally),
| then a plane to Russia and hide there.
|
| Ps. For some reason criminals think small countries are safe, but
| capturing criminals like this, that are most wanted by the US, is
| a huge political win for the small countries, (brownie points
| with the US) and they will do whatever it takes to get them.
|
| Best countries to hide are larger countries that are not fully US
| aligned (think Brazil), or US hostile (Russia, etc)
| grujicd wrote:
| The main reason why you shouldn't hide in Montenegro is that
| everyone knows everyone. You can be found in 5 min if there's a
| political will.
|
| When Covid started, it was brought to Montenegro by a tourist
| group which went to Spain. Very soon everyone knew by name who
| was in that group. Even worse, when Covid spread a bit,
| government published names of all people who were in self-
| isolation. Highly unconstitutional, yet highly effective in a
| relativelly small comunity. With this and other strict measures
| Montenegro managed to be Covid free in summer 2020 - possibly
| the only country in Europe at a time. Of course, it quickly
| fell apart as soon as strict measures were lifted.
|
| So this is why you shouldn't hide in small countries. Only way
| to hide is to buy your stay there and I assume it can't be
| cheap if you're really wanted.
| imp0cat wrote:
| Russia isn't one of the best countries to hide right now. It
| might have been tolerable cca a year ago, before the war
| started.
| zucked wrote:
| It's interesting to me that this is the current lay of the
| land. I've been to MNE many, many times and in my day it was a
| common belief that it was a favorite haunt for wealthy
| individuals who weren't able to get into the EU proper (and
| places like Monaco, Cannes, etc.)
| janmo wrote:
| So far he isn't wanted in the US, but in South Korea
| pizzalife wrote:
| I would not be surprised to see an indictment being unsealed
| within the next few days. You can bet most of these crypto
| criminals are under US indictment if they defrauded
| Americans. They're just sealed until they are arrested
| somewhere.
|
| For example, on Jan 7 the operator of "Bitzlato" flew to
| Miami. He was arrested and DOJ unsealed his indictment the
| following day.
| xwdv wrote:
| Of course he'd be in Montenegro, a place with so much corruption
| it's practically out in the open. Rot in Prison, Do Kwon.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| Kwon was arrested by Montenegrin police.
| hammock wrote:
| Andrew Tate was arrested by Romanian police. What's your
| point?
| brookst wrote:
| "Death Valley can't be a desert because it rained there
| today"
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _" Death Valley can't be a desert because it rained there
| today"_
|
| Not arguing for or against Montenegrin corruption. Just
| saying that this incident doesn't contribute to the
| corruption theory.
| hammock wrote:
| Was parent comment really suggesting that this incident
| (Do Kwon's arrest) contributes to the corruption theory?
|
| I read it as suggesting that Do Kwon's decision to take
| up residence there contributed to the corruption theory
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _I read it as suggesting that Do Kwon's decision to
| take up residence there contributed to the corruption
| theory_
|
| "A place with so much corruption" reads to me as a
| statement of fact, not perception. (Montenegro clocks in
| between China and Jamaica on the latter [1].)
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_
| Index
| xwdv wrote:
| So, very corrupt? Not sure where you're going with this.
| CapmCrackaWaka wrote:
| It does, since he managed to "evade" authorities for so
| long. One could imagine that's much easier to do when
| corruption is abound.
| smcl wrote:
| Do we know that he was in Montenegro the entire time?
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Maybe corrupt, but not corrupt enough to get excluded from
| entry into NATO.
| latchkey wrote:
| Amazing that it took this long to find and arrest him.
| janmo wrote:
| Ruja Ignatova is also suspected of hiding in Montenegro, she is
| behind the OneCoin ponzi scheme and has successfully been on
| the run for 5 years now.
|
| It appears that Do Kwon did a very rookie mistake by believing
| he could take a plane at the airport like every one else.
| INTPenis wrote:
| Well the podgorica airport is notoriously shitty.
| bandrami wrote:
| I thought she fell out a window?
| hiidrew wrote:
| saw this from a couple of days ago -
| https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/bulgarian-woman-
| charged...
| dmix wrote:
| Was she hiding too or were they just waiting, maybe hoping
| it could provide more information?
| dannyw wrote:
| Charge is not arrest
| dredmorbius wrote:
| From the DOJ link above, first paragraph:
|
| _DILKINSKA was extradited from Bulgaria yesterday and
| will be presented before United States Magistrate Judge
| Sarah Netburn later today._
|
| <https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/bulgarian-woman-
| charged...>
|
| She _is_ in US custody.
| Jolter wrote:
| But extradited is arrest.
| automatic6131 wrote:
| tl;dr they arrested Ignatova's head of compliance for
| OneCoin
|
| I hope this woman has knowledge of the whereabouts of
| Ignatova. Disgusting that you can get away with running a
| billion dollar ponzi, and get away with the loot too.
| fisherjeff wrote:
| I mean to be fair, if you're going to do a Ponzi, you
| better make sure it pays you _at least_ a billion dollars
| because you are definitely going to (a) be unable to
| access some probably very large portion of it, and (b)
| have to go completely off the grid. If your Ponzi pays
| out like 100k, you're going straight to jail.
| Hamuko wrote:
| The grapevine is of the opinion that Ignatova has spent the
| last few years on the bottom of the sea, so that'd definitely
| be a plausible explanation as to how she's not been captured
| yet.
| m3kw9 wrote:
| How is that a rookie mistake, it's total idiocy
| jeron wrote:
| If I pulled off a billion dollar scam, I'd only fly private
| but in music equipment boxes
| paulpauper wrote:
| Not really. If someone lays low and uses new IDs they can hide
| for a very long time, decades sometimes. A good rule of thumb
| is to avoid areas where there are police/checkpoints, like
| airports.
| steveBK123 wrote:
| Crypto bros can't even do non-extradition countries right.
| xg15 wrote:
| More like Don't Kwon now.
| grumple wrote:
| I saw Terraform and thought of the infra as code tool by
| Hashicorp. This Terraform Labs is unrelated, they ran another
| major cryptocurrency scam.
| CoBE10 wrote:
| Do those people think that Montenegro won't give them to US? I've
| seen a few mentions of Montenegro in some American TV shows and
| they always say "The X has escaped to Montenegro...", "Montenegro
| doesn't have extradition treaty with US...". That's not true, and
| it was never true. Montenegro just can't sue them in Montenegrin
| court, because of the treaty that Montenegro can sue American
| citizens in American courts.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| Even when they were joint state with Serbia they would have
| been covered by 1899 extradition treaty with US (see Artukovic
| case which was applied retroactively for crimes on territory
| not under Serbian jurisdiction in 1899, even if you reject that
| it would be 1918-2006)
| inconceivable wrote:
| kwon is south korean and wanted by the south korean
| authorities.
| noloblo wrote:
| was do kwon arrested in montenegro for the interpol/south
| korean red notice or the united states sec case?
| bflesch wrote:
| he was arrested for travelling with fake documents
| ForHackernews wrote:
| Our randian cryptoheroes have no use for your trifling
| government-issued "fiat" documents. My transit visa exists
| forever on the eternal blockchain!
| a4isms wrote:
| Keep up, What we actually do when travelling is use a
| Tornado Mixer. We slice ourselves into thousands of
| pieces and those pieces are semi-randomly mixed with the
| pieces of other crypto heroes, who travel by different
| routes. Only after reaching our final destination are we
| un-mixed, and sometimes not even that.
|
| By the way, I love having one brown arm and one pink arm.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _arrested in montenegro for the interpol /south korean red
| notice or the united states sec case_
|
| The SEC is a civil agency. It can't arrest people.
| GauntletWizard wrote:
| No, but it can file cases with the courts, and courts can
| issue arrest warrants for contempt and failure to appear
| for a summons.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
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