[HN Gopher] Miller test
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       Miller test
        
       Author : 1970-01-01
       Score  : 32 points
       Date   : 2023-03-22 18:10 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
        
       | sdrinf wrote:
       | While some of these terms have some case precedence, the issue of
       | subjectivity frequently comes up when a case is appealed, and
       | many, many elements are nullified on appeal review. For more in-
       | depth analysis, see: https://www.firstamendment.com/obscenity-
       | laws/
       | 
       | For an especially problematic issue see "Reason Number 3: Because
       | You Don't Know Whether You're Guilty Until the Jury Renders Its
       | Verdict"
       | 
       | And their whitepaper,
       | https://www.firstamendment.com/articles/Nexus_Obscenity_in_t...
       | 
       | | The more troubling aspect to this defect in obscenity laws is
       | the inability for law abiding Webmasters to steer clear of
       | inadvertent violations of the law. It is an essential element of
       | any fair criminal justice system that all laws must adequately
       | advise citizens how to comply with them, and more importantly,
       | how to avoid breaking them. Citizens should not be so uninformed
       | that they avoid lawful conduct in order to keep from violating an
       | inadequately defined law. For example, Congress has determined
       | that no one should drive faster than 65 miles per hour, but it is
       | perfectly fine-and in many cases citizens are encouraged-to drive
       | right at the speed limit. Every driver understands his or her
       | rights and obligations, and can easily comply with the law.
       | Imagine the chaos and outcry if the speed limit were defined as
       | "the highest speed measured in cubits per hour that the average
       | person, if polled today, would find that a Unicorn could gallop,
       | with a serous purpose as measured by a reasonable person in the
       | community." Imagine how slowly people would go; imagine how many
       | tickets would be written for speeding. Imagine how long it would
       | take for such an inane standard to be repealed.
        
       | iammjm wrote:
       | What a bunch of puritan bullshit. It's not for any court to
       | decide what is pretty and what is ugly. There should not be any
       | sanctums, especially not in the legal system
        
       | mikewarot wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | AnimalMuppet wrote:
         | Fox News "depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way,
         | sexual conduct or excretory functions"? That's news (sorry) to
         | me.
        
           | fvold wrote:
           | [flagged]
        
       | dmtroyer wrote:
       | How often is this used? The amount of subjectivity necessary to
       | interpret the "test" makes my head spin.
        
         | standardUser wrote:
         | You think that's bad, look at the "I know it when I see it"
         | ruling that was literally 6 old white men ruling that they
         | could decide what was pornographic based on their own personal
         | opinion.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it
        
           | kapp_in_life wrote:
           | Important to note that in this case they weren't trying to
           | define pornography but were stating that the film for the
           | case in question was not pornographic and so Ohio couldn't
           | infringe on the directors first amendment right to display
           | the film.
           | 
           | Your framing makes it seem like they decided something was
           | pornographic, when what they were doing was protecting free
           | speech.
           | 
           | From your own source:
           | 
           | >I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of
           | material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand
           | description ["hard-core pornography"], and perhaps I could
           | never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I
           | see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not
           | that.
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | It's not as subjective as it sounds in plain english. Many of
         | these terms have established legal meanings and/or case law to
         | support them
        
           | dragonwriter wrote:
           | Those established legal meanings (even the ones that are
           | "objective" as that term is used in law [0]) are themselves
           | subjective.
           | 
           | [0] "objective" in legal standards often refers to a
           | subjective standard where the decision-maker is not to apply
           | their opinion on the overt rule, but to apply their opinion
           | of what a "reasonable person" would opine about the overt
           | rule.
        
         | dragonwriter wrote:
         | Its used in principle whenever obscenity is cited as
         | justification for a restriction on expression that is
         | challenged.
         | 
         | (However, in practice analogy to past uses, especially in
         | courts whose precedent is binding, may be used in place of the
         | test itself.)
        
       | ajb wrote:
       | Was expecting this to be about prime numbers, but that's
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Rabin_primali...
        
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       (page generated 2023-03-23 23:01 UTC)