[HN Gopher] Remote work is starting to hit office rents
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       Remote work is starting to hit office rents
        
       Author : warrenm
       Score  : 64 points
       Date   : 2023-03-22 19:55 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.axios.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.axios.com)
        
       | e_i_pi_2 wrote:
       | This seems good right? Lowering rental prices means lower
       | operational costs, so more of the money can go to the employees
       | ideally
        
         | conanbatt wrote:
         | If anything it increases company profits, why would companies
         | give the rent money back to employees?
        
         | xwdv wrote:
         | Why would any profit go to the employees? You didn't want to
         | come to the office and be a team player? Now you don't get the
         | share of the profits.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | toomuchtodo wrote:
       | > Small and midsized banks (those not among the top 25) currently
       | hold 67.2% of all outstanding commercial real estate loans, Axios
       | recently reported.
       | 
       | https://www.axios.com/2023/03/21/small-bank-struggles-could-...
        
         | wwweston wrote:
         | From what I've heard, certain real estate enterprises including
         | a substantial portion of commercial real estate can get
         | financing on their _nominal asking rent_ , whether or not they
         | actually have tenants paying that rent.
         | 
         | I'd imagine these enterprises still need to find a way to make
         | their payments on any related loans, but one wonders what
         | happens to banking revenue if a bunch of them get caught in the
         | same crunch.
        
           | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
           | > I'd imagine these enterprises still need to find a way to
           | make their payments on any related loans, but one wonders
           | what happens to banking revenue if a bunch of them get caught
           | in the same crunch.
           | 
           | I'd imagine the government will just bail out commercial
           | landlords.
        
         | balderdash wrote:
         | The thing is the average duration of those loans is ~5yrs, so
         | the ~15-20% of the portfolio that needs to refinance this year
         | was stuff that got financed five years ago, and probably has
         | pretty decent loan to values given that the property values are
         | in most cases up from where they were 5 years ago.
         | 
         | It's the stuff that was financed in the past couple of years
         | that is going to be the most risky, but unless rents fell off a
         | cliff, has a bit of runway to play out.
        
           | Melatonic wrote:
           | Yea this sounded scary to me at first but now that I think
           | about it does not seem all that bad.
           | 
           | If you were dirt rich it is probably a great time to be in
           | the skyscraper buying market
        
       | loa_in_ wrote:
       | Armchair opinion: They should sell the properties to make up if
       | they're having a deficit. Not predicting how this market
       | situation would play out sounds like mismanagement.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | who is buying these properties at this moment?
        
           | sam_lowry_ wrote:
           | I know, the discussion is US-centric, but last year Europe
           | saw lots of binge buying of corporate office spaces by the
           | local governments in view of conversion into refugee centers.
        
             | biggoodwolf wrote:
             | Who's gonna pay the real estate taxes? LOL
        
               | escapecharacter wrote:
               | Unhoused homeless people actually have a non-zero cost to
               | the cities they're in, whether it comes to incarceration
               | or other costs.
               | 
               | Cities could convert these office spaces into homeless
               | shelters and save money.
        
               | InitialLastName wrote:
               | I don't know if you're asking to be tongue-in-cheek, but
               | this is a salient question.
               | 
               | Normally, government buildings ("Held for public use")
               | don't pay property taxes. This can be a serious issue in
               | municipalities where large portions of the non-
               | residential real estate is held by a higher-level
               | governmental entity, such as Jackson, Mississippi, where
               | the state government makes up a large bulk of the
               | functional real estate, and thus does not contribute to
               | the municipal tax base (while still making substantial
               | infrastructural demands).
               | 
               | [0] NY state example:
               | https://www.osc.state.ny.us/files/local-
               | government/publicati...
        
       | jimt1234 wrote:
       | The San Diego market is up? Anyone know why? Everyone I know in
       | San Diego is WFH now. I thought we'd be closer to the San
       | Francisco market.
        
         | Melatonic wrote:
         | Probably government jobs? There are a lot of military and
         | contractors down there and spending is probably way up
        
         | om42 wrote:
         | Probably because of biotech, which similar to Boston also going
         | up. And maybe defense.
        
       | ianlevesque wrote:
       | Good, this has been overdue for a massive correction for years.
        
       | lsllc wrote:
       | A little surprised to see Boston increasing rent activity, but I
       | think Boston has been slowly losing its footing on the tech
       | ladder in favor of Biotech (take a look around Kendall Sq). Can't
       | really WFH in Biotech if you need lab space.
       | 
       | Probably started when DEC was consumed by Compaq ... even YC
       | moved out (maybe it's the weather).
        
         | r_klancer wrote:
         | (Sitting in Kendall Square right now). I'm not surprised,
         | though we're saying the same thing. _So. Much. Biotech._
         | 
         | This is why the WFH revolution didn't make me panic when I
         | discovered how much it would end up costing to renovate a small
         | house 1.5 miles from here. So much biotech, and for that you
         | need to be in the lab at least some of the time. The MBTA's
         | recent troubles ("global slow zone", anyone?) only make it
         | "better", like I paid them off or something.
        
           | neilv wrote:
           | I'm sitting just up the street right now, and -- hoping to
           | buy a walkable nice home in town someday -- wholeheartedly
           | counsel the East Cambridge biotech people and the Kendall
           | MSFT/GOOG/etc. outpost people to make a _luxurious and
           | convenient commuter rail ride, between work and BFE_ part of
           | their daily lifestyle.
        
         | dbcurtis wrote:
         | I think the "lab space" requirement is going to drive a lot of
         | the WFH-or-not office space planning among employers that don't
         | fall into the "come in for no reason other than I said so"
         | category.
         | 
         | In my case, I work in robotics. Somebody working on the
         | perception stack software and going to the occasional zoom
         | meeting has little reason to show up at the office beyond
         | random hallway meetings and free micro-kitchen snacks. A
         | machinist in the prototyping lab, on the other hand, needs to
         | be in front of the giant, expensive CNC machine. For me
         | personally, I have a mix of coding days and lab days, and WFH
         | or go in according to the tasks of the day.
         | 
         | Clued-in companies are going to adjust their real-estate mix. I
         | predict a drop in the fraction of commercial space that
         | consists of carpeted offices.
        
           | flandish wrote:
           | I agree. My role is software engineering, but in industrial
           | healthcare automation - so I come in when I need to make
           | stuff move in meatspace. Mostly a few days a week. We don't
           | really have standard offices though - it's either a cube or
           | in the lab 50/50 hoping the magic smoke doesn't leak out
           | because I coded that thing wrong...
        
           | phkahler wrote:
           | >> I think the "lab space" requirement is going to drive a
           | lot of the WFH-or-not office space planning among employers
           | that don't fall into the "come in for no reason other than I
           | said so" category.
           | 
           | I wonder if there will be a another push for those jobs to go
           | to lower cost countries.
        
             | dr-detroit wrote:
             | [dead]
        
             | CrimpCity wrote:
             | There may be a lot of cost savings in labor but there's a
             | huge risk in technology transfer & following lab protocols.
             | In biotech lab culture and best practices are actually a
             | tighter package than "low" skill factory work. So you get
             | really variable outcomes when you unbundle the lab.
        
             | 908B64B197 wrote:
             | > I wonder if there will be a another push for those jobs
             | to go to lower cost countries.
             | 
             | They are lower cost for a reason...
        
             | gabythenerd wrote:
             | Some of those jobs are already in lower cost countries but
             | some can't be outsourced because they rely on military
             | contracts (can only be worked on by US employees).
             | 
             | I once worked on an offshore company that did staff
             | augmentation for american robotics companies, we did mostly
             | software because the hardware was illegal to export.
        
         | bcrosby95 wrote:
         | I don't know about biotech, but my brother works in a lab with
         | lasers and he's still WFH 3-5 days/week. Experiments are done
         | in the office, but planned and analyzed at home.
        
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       (page generated 2023-03-22 23:00 UTC)