[HN Gopher] Counter-Strike 2 - Limited Test for select CS:GO pla...
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       Counter-Strike 2 - Limited Test for select CS:GO players
        
       Author : swores
       Score  : 373 points
       Date   : 2023-03-22 16:52 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (counter-strike.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (counter-strike.net)
        
       | sourcecodeplz wrote:
       | Variable tick-rate, volumetric smokes, Source 2 engine. It will
       | be AMAZING!
        
         | matsemann wrote:
         | sub-tick updates is interesting. Remember it being a source of
         | frustration 15 years ago, wonder how they're working around it.
        
       | izzydata wrote:
       | The smoke looks cool, but is there a way to play without
       | cheaters?
        
         | TheCowboy wrote:
         | People have been wondering if this would come with better
         | management of cheaters, but it looks like it's unclear. The
         | main reason I picked Valorant over CSGO is mostly because of
         | how well they deal with cheating. But I think CSGO might be the
         | better game, as Riot doesn't really seem to have good judgement
         | when it comes to introducing meta breaking changes.
        
       | codeflo wrote:
       | The smoke effects are cool, but otherwise, it doesn't feel like
       | the graphics are really that much better, just different. Flatter
       | dynamic range (everything is bright now). Busier textures.
       | Exactly the same pixely shadows (most visible in the screenshot
       | "Back Plat"), which makes me think the engine hasn't been
       | modernized that much.
        
         | wolpoli wrote:
         | > Flatter dynamic range (everything is bright now)
         | 
         | This change seems arbitrary. In CS3, they could reverse this
         | change and make the case that they improved the atmosphere, and
         | people will agree with it.
        
           | squeaky-clean wrote:
           | It seems very intentional to me, they mention "character
           | read" as a goal for the relights on the website. IMO CS1.6
           | still has the best ability to quickly see an enemy than any
           | of the other CS games (it's still way better than something
           | like CoD). The flat lighting with less visual noise could
           | really help bring this back.
        
           | LeifCarrotson wrote:
           | Consider the comparison images:
           | 
           | https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/apps/csgo/images/csgo.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/apps/csgo/images/csgo.
           | ..
           | 
           | (The former is CS2, the latter CSGO). In my office, with the
           | sun streaming in through the double windows, with relatively
           | low-gamma, lower-contrast old IPS monitors that don't suck
           | but aren't 4k professional OLEDs, yeah, I absolutely want
           | everything to be bright. It kills the horror-movie feel,
           | where your eyes are at the edge of their abilities, squinting
           | and peering into the foggy shadows for barely-perceptible
           | hints of motion, but if you want to actually see what you're
           | doing you want flattened dynamic range.
           | 
           | If you're not watching on an HDR monitor in a pitch-black
           | home theater, you can't see anything in Batman (2022) or Game
           | of Thrones, or any of the modern "realistic", "gritty,"
           | underexposed shows. It's definitely more artistically
           | appealing in ideal conditions, but if you're not going to
           | perfectly recreate the ideal viewing conditions (and crank up
           | the gamma on your display to compensate a bit while you're at
           | it), it's pointless.
           | 
           | I have the same complaint regarding dynamic range with
           | regards to sound mixes, too. I understand that the real
           | battlefield sends soldiers home with tinnitus because
           | explosions are head-splittingly loud. I don't want that
           | realism when I'm in-game, flashbangs should not be mixed in
           | Counter-strike such that their own monitors and
           | headsets/speakers physically incapacitate the players if they
           | turn the volume up to be able to hear the radio commands.
           | When listening to a movie, I usually just accept that I have
           | to turn on subtitles (even though my hearing is fine) and
           | will have to read the dialog if I don't want to wake up my
           | kids with the house shaking when there's an on-screen
           | explosion.
        
             | yamtaddle wrote:
             | > When listening to a movie, I usually just accept that I
             | have to turn on subtitles (even though my hearing is fine)
             | and will have to read the dialog if I don't want to wake up
             | my kids with the house shaking when there's an on-screen
             | explosion.
             | 
             | Some audio receivers feature some kind of "baby's asleep"
             | mode that boosts the center channel & vocal-range
             | frequencies while suppressing everything else. Folks who
             | don't want the real Theatrical Experience (which I think is
             | actually _most_ home viewers) probably ought to just leave
             | that mode on all the time.
             | 
             | An alternative for systems without that feature is to just
             | manually boost the center channel.
        
             | vecter wrote:
             | I believe the former is CS:GO and the latter is CS2.
        
             | the_af wrote:
             | > _Consider the comparison images_
             | 
             | To be honest, I strongly prefer the CS:GO image. It looks
             | more interesting, with better contrast and a spookier feel
             | to it. It even has details where the CS2 image doesn't,
             | like the grating on the floor on the left side.
             | 
             | The CS:GO version reads more cinematic to me, while the CS2
             | seems cartoony/gamey even though they might have improved
             | the geometry (I can't tell).
        
         | the_af wrote:
         | > _Flatter dynamic range (everything is bright now)._
         | 
         | I was about to write this.
         | 
         | I like the improvements, but I dislike that everything is
         | brighter and with less contrast in the examples. The CS:GO
         | environments look more characterful, almost like comparing The
         | Matrix with a greenish tint to a hypothetical Matrix where
         | everything was bright and clean.
         | 
         | I wish they could mix the improvements with the older
         | lights/contrast.
        
         | Xeoncross wrote:
         | I felt like they kept the dynamic range, but now everything is
         | 3 levels brighter and you have to deal with glare off surfaces.
        
         | tapoxi wrote:
         | I think the big upgrades in Source 2 are around tooling. The
         | Valve Hammer editor for CS:GO is a glorified Quake map editor.
         | I think it can even still edit Quake maps.
        
         | awestroke wrote:
         | Why bother with high quality shadows if everyone will just turn
         | them off immediately?
        
           | nebulousthree wrote:
           | If you turn off shadows in cs you're putting yourself at a
           | significant disadvantage. Many games have been clinched on a
           | shadow that was noticed.
        
             | awestroke wrote:
             | Not turning off shadows, turning off high quality shadows
        
           | metaltyphoon wrote:
           | Why turn off shadows when you can actually see your own by
           | looking at it? You would be at major disadvantage when
           | playing competitive.
        
             | Etheryte wrote:
             | I think you might've misread the parent comment, as far as
             | I can tell they meant turning high quality shadows off,
             | e.g. switching shadow quality to low, not switching shadows
             | off altogether.
        
       | beebeepka wrote:
       | I like what I am seeing here. Same game but better. I don't want
       | to sound inflammatory but CS: Source felt like the only iteration
       | that didn't feel right. Graphics were much better but I wasn't
       | satisfied until CS:Go. It's basically CS with the Left 4 Dead 2
       | engine build.
        
       | Thaxll wrote:
       | "Sub-tick updates are the heart of Counter-Strike 2. Previously,
       | the server only evaluated the world in discrete time intervals
       | (called ticks). Thanks to Counter-Strike 2's sub-tick update
       | architecture, servers know the exact instant that motion starts,
       | a shot is fired, or a 'nade is thrown."
       | 
       | Not sure what it means but it's probably related to the rollback
       | tech in the source 1 engine, which is pretty outdated.
        
         | asmor wrote:
         | Rollback is really the best lag compensation tech we have,
         | trusting a client to a very small degree to tell their state of
         | the world (or rather a delta to current) is much better than
         | most other contemporaries. Call of Duty still divides your RTT
         | by half at the start of a match and rewinds by that much. On
         | connections with asyncronous latency this can be extremely
         | impactful.
        
         | entropicdrifter wrote:
         | It means they're increasing the granularity of the timeline of
         | events in order to improve accuracy and fairness.
        
           | JusticeJuice wrote:
           | Yeah, I'm interpreting this as instead of sending an integer
           | of the tick that something occured on, they're sending a
           | floating number of when it happened.
           | 
           | I assume the float they send will have a limit in accuracy
           | however. So really it's not like ticks are 'gone', they're
           | just getting much much smaller.
        
             | asmor wrote:
             | The ticks aren't going away. They're just sending exact
             | timestamps for movement so the server side view of a hitbox
             | is more accurate when rewinding hixboes. The difference on
             | 60 tick was sometimes large enough to miss headshots on
             | faraway targets. It'd of course help if their clock sync
             | and anti-drift measures were better now. It's NTP hard
             | mode.
        
             | Sniffnoy wrote:
             | Is there a reason you would expect them to use floats here
             | instead of fixed-point? I would naively guess the latter.
        
               | gravitronic wrote:
               | They just meant that things now happen within fractions
               | of a time slice, instead of always landing on exactly
               | 1/60th of a second boundaries.
        
         | wnevets wrote:
         | does that make aimbots more effective?
        
           | kuroguro wrote:
           | Aimbots are already too effective, I doubt this changes much.
        
           | JusticeJuice wrote:
           | Shouldn't really make any difference, because they're already
           | super effective with ticks. Having more fine timing accuracy
           | doesn't drastically improve them.
        
         | bob1029 wrote:
         | I would assume it works something like this:
         | 
         | At the server, client input events exercise some localized net
         | code layer on a purely ad-hoc basis (i.e. serviced in small
         | batches the moment packets are received). Players involved in
         | these interactions could receive immediate updates from the
         | localized, ad-hoc simulation (i.e. "infinite" tick rate).
         | 
         | The global tick is responsible for synchronizing these ad-hoc
         | buckets (i.e. the same player can't die to 2 different kill
         | shots). Rollback would likely be required in some cases, but if
         | the global simulation is ticking at 60hz and the likelihood of
         | a rollback is low, I think it could feel really good.
        
       | LinAGKar wrote:
       | Shouldn't this be Counter Strike 5?
        
       | web3-is-a-scam wrote:
       | Don't really play competitive FPS so I dont know if that smoke
       | tech is novel or not, but it sure does look cool as hell.
        
       | Sponge5 wrote:
       | I've been hearing about Source 2 port of CSGO since 2015. Now I
       | can't believe it actually happened. When I quit playing a few
       | years ago I was at over 5000h played. I might add a couple
       | hundred for old times sake
        
         | tiffanyh wrote:
         | To put 5,000 hours into perspective.
         | 
         | There's only 2,000 hours in an entire year, if you work a
         | typical 9-5 job, 5-days per week.
         | 
         | This would be like play CS as a full-time job for 2.5 years
         | straight.
        
           | tstrimple wrote:
           | Play times are often wildly inaccurate for me because I leave
           | games up and running over long periods of time. Especially
           | games like Dwarf Fortress or Rimworld. I could have them
           | running for literally days at a time with me only hopping in
           | between meetings or something to advance things a bit.
        
           | izzytcp wrote:
           | [flagged]
        
       | nathias wrote:
       | amazing, it's everything we dreamt it would be
        
       | localplume wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | gigatexal wrote:
       | they're so close to just giving us what we really want and that's
       | HL3, at this point I'd just take HL2 Episode 3 to round out the
       | story of Episode 2.
        
       | galkk wrote:
       | Looking at announcement video that makes emphasis on smoke: have
       | they ever seen smoke? Effect of a smoke grenade?
        
         | lbotos wrote:
         | Smokes in CS right now are one of the areas where people don't
         | love the current implementation.
         | 
         | A few patches ago if you had your settings right you would get
         | a competitive advantage on smokes due to the way they were
         | rendered.
         | 
         | This new rendering feels more like Valorant and ultimately for
         | CS players everyone in my playgroup is excited about the new
         | smokes. They seem better to _play with_
        
         | ezekg wrote:
         | They stole their homework from Overwatch. So no. But yes.
         | 
         | All kidding aside --
         | 
         | This type of unrealistic smoke adds a new mechanic to the
         | second-to-second gun play, where small mechanics like this can
         | be used to turn the tide of a game by a player simply
         | understanding the game, and how to take advantage of its
         | mechanics, better than other players. Personally, I think
         | "unrealistic" mechanics like this are what make competitive
         | games, well, competitive.
        
           | tstrimple wrote:
           | I'm reaching an age where I don't have the twitch reflexes to
           | compete on that alone, so I'm all for mechanics like this
           | which give "game sense" players a boost.
        
         | 91edec wrote:
         | It is not meant to be a real life smoke grenade, its meant to
         | be a gameplay mechanic. This new smoke grenade is great because
         | it introduces counterplay and tactics.
        
       | skilled wrote:
       | Great work by the team. Let's see how it all feels when the game
       | comes out. The new smokes will have a massive impact in
       | competitive play, perhaps more so for the entertainment value
       | which comes from all the live events throughout the year.
       | 
       | Good for Richard Lewis who pretty much put his reputation on the
       | line by calling out the fact that the release was coming. [0]
       | 
       | [0]: https://richardlewis.substack.com/p/sources-yes-counter-
       | stri...
        
       | jareklupinski wrote:
       | I'll playtest the new Reverse Gungame (read: Arms Race) for as
       | long as you want me to if I can get enrolled :)
       | 
       | Hope the issue with weapons not being assigned in the right order
       | will be fixed...
        
       | uxcolumbo wrote:
       | Please do Day of Defeat next!
        
       | asabla wrote:
       | Pretty amazing how well the core concept of Counter-strike still
       | holds up today. Really looking forward for the technical articles
       | which will supersede this launch.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | maxbaines wrote:
       | Imagine Garry's Mod.
        
         | ohgodplsno wrote:
         | So, S&box which is already made on Source 2 and already made by
         | Garry?
        
           | c7DJTLrn wrote:
           | As a Garry's Mod veteran, S&Box looks like something entirely
           | different. Although Garry says it's a kind of sequel, it
           | doesn't look like it is. It's more like a meta game engine.
           | Or metaverse (god I hate that word.) I don't expect it to be
           | a hit sadly.
        
             | andrewmcwatters wrote:
             | S&box is so confusing to me coming from a guy who through
             | early GMod releases released something as soon as possible
             | and released updates frequently.
             | 
             | It's the complete opposite strategy. Do nothing for several
             | years, and then hope people buy it when it comes out.
        
               | n42 wrote:
               | that's a fair point, but it's not exactly an audience of
               | none. there's a fairly large play tester base. it's just
               | invite only.
        
               | c7DJTLrn wrote:
               | You took the words right out of my mouth. I think Garry
               | overcorrected and became a perfectionist concerned more
               | with the code and engine than making something that
               | people will want to play.
               | 
               | Garry's Mod was fun because it was silly. It was far from
               | perfect but we were happy putting thrusters and balloons
               | on jeeps and flying around. He's lost sight of that it
               | seems. He wants to build something perfect and I fear
               | that's going to make it a sterile experience.
        
             | n42 wrote:
             | after GMod was launched on Steam with much better support
             | for Lua scripting, what we call Garry's Mod grew into just
             | one game mode (the sandbox gamemode). with S&Box, I think
             | Garry's idea is that the GMod sequel is just one of the
             | game modes. he/they are focusing on the developer platform
             | first and foremost.
             | 
             | I think there will be a GMod 2 gamemode that resembles what
             | we remember (balloons, thrusters, etc)
        
       | Ruq wrote:
       | So...technically this is the 3rd entry in the series, right?
       | _Game immediately disappears as Valve cannot count to 3_
        
         | squeaky-clean wrote:
         | I'm hoping it's a jab at Overwatch 2 because that was also just
         | a major update that replaced the current game, but not
         | different enough for many players to agree it warrants a "2",
         | and CS2 is going to be a major update that replaces CSGO.
        
         | antris wrote:
         | Counter-Strike
         | 
         | (Counter-Strike: Condition Zero)
         | 
         | Counter-Strike: Source
         | 
         | Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
         | 
         | Counter-Strike 2
         | 
         | It's all pretty confusing.
        
           | ceedan wrote:
           | Counter-Strike 1.6
           | 
           | Condition Zero (1.7)
           | 
           | Source (1.8)
           | 
           | Global Offensive (1.9)
           | 
           | Counter-Strike 2
        
           | iooi wrote:
           | It makes sense if you think of it like this:
           | 
           | CS - 1.5
           | 
           | CS (Steam) - 1.6
           | 
           | CS: CZ - 1.7
           | 
           | CS: Source - 1.8
           | 
           | CS: GO - 1.9
           | 
           | CS - 2.0
        
       | Phelinofist wrote:
       | HL3 when???
       | 
       | Jokes aside, Valve does awesome work. Proton alone is a gift.
       | Steam as a platform is best in class.
        
         | blueridge wrote:
         | Reminder: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time
        
         | localplume wrote:
         | [dead]
        
       | seabass-labrax wrote:
       | The 'reimagined' blood and gore effects shown on the game's
       | official website are truly abhorrent :(
       | 
       | My interest has been continually been drawn to team-based first-
       | person shooter games (like Counter Strike) for their potential in
       | terms of strategy, tactics and team coordination, but the gore is
       | enough to put me off most titles immediately. I can see that some
       | effects like blood stains can form part of the games' mechanics,
       | indicating the direction from which a shot came, but what if one
       | simply does not want to see these graphics? CS:GO doesn't even
       | have an setting to disable them, and this is not unusual in the
       | genre - I hope this sequel adds such an option.
        
         | JasonZ2 wrote:
         | > [...] what if one simply does not want to see these graphics?
         | CS:GO doesn't even have an setting to disable them [...]
         | 
         | Yes it does.
         | 
         | 1. Open up your console by pressing the ` key
         | 
         | 2. Type in the following command: `cl_blood 1`
         | 
         | 3. Press enter
        
           | swores wrote:
           | I believe that doesn't actually work in CSGO (possibly it
           | works in local servers against bots, but not in multiplayer
           | where people actually want to play).
           | 
           | Hence people making workarounds such as changing movement
           | keys to both move and to execute the command that hides any
           | already created blood (and bullets):
           | 
           | https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=23635.
           | ..
           | 
           | or
           | 
           | https://wewatch.gg/blog/how-to-remove-blood-in-cs-go-
           | binds-f...
        
             | vincheezel wrote:
             | There are sites where you can purchase and download
             | different world regions CD keys. I'd first remove CS:GO
             | from your library completely (steam offers a way to do
             | this) then activate the German version of the game. There
             | is built in censoring for death/blood/corpse ragdolls
             | afaik.
        
         | pityJuke wrote:
         | There used to be a low violence mode where players didn't die,
         | they surrendered.
        
         | Leader2light wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | josefresco wrote:
         | Maybe try Valorant which is a "cartooned modern take" on the CS
         | model.
        
           | gigaflop wrote:
           | Valorant has an option to disable corpses, replacing them
           | with little tokens on the ground that mark the spot of their
           | demise. I think there's also an option to tone down blood
           | effects, etc.
        
         | areoform wrote:
         | Valorant is far more sanitized in this regard and very
         | "candy"-ish in its gameplay. I suspect the skins, female
         | characters, and this candy-ness are why so many women I know
         | play it. Personally, I think it's super cute!
        
         | ManuelKiessling wrote:
         | Apex Legends might be just what you are looking for --
         | basically zero gore, extremely tactical gameplay with
         | incredible team dynamics on good days.
        
       | jacooper wrote:
       | For anyone who doesn't like waiting for rounds to finish, try the
       | Deatmatch mode! Its surprisingly fun! And more friendly to casual
       | players.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | singularity2001 wrote:
       | https://steamcommunity.com/faqs/steam-help/view/5ED2-ED8E-81...
       | 
       | How do I gain access to the Counter-Strike 2 Limited Test?
       | Players are selected based on a number of factors deemed
       | important by the Counter-Strike 2 development team, including
       | (but not limited to) recent playtime on Valve official servers,
       | trust factor, and Steam account standing.
       | 
       | How do I know if I've been selected for the Counter-Strike 2
       | Limited Test? If you are chosen to participate in the Counter-
       | Strike 2 Limited Test you will receive a notification on the main
       | menu of CS:GO.
       | 
       | If you receive an invitation select "ENROLL" and begin your
       | download. When the download is complete launch CS:GO and select
       | the "Limited Test" option to play the Counter-Strike 2 Limited
       | Test.
       | 
       | How often are players added to the Counter-Strike 2 Limited Test?
       | More players will be added to the Limited Test over time. Keep
       | checking your CS:GO main menu to see if you have received an
       | invite.
       | 
       | How long will the Counter-Strike 2 Limited Test last? Counter-
       | Strike 2 is expected to ship Summer 2023.
        
       | hed wrote:
       | This is unorthodox but will it have something like func_vehicle
       | in the original Counter-Strike?
       | 
       | Discovering "fun maps" servers gave me a second wind with that
       | game long after I was no longer a twitchy teenager doing 5v5
        
       | klarite wrote:
       | Now for the love of all that is holy: revert or fix the weapon
       | sounds! Half of the reason I love Apex Legends is the sound
       | engineering and how it contributes to the experience and
       | satisfaction of the overall gameplay.
        
         | takoid wrote:
         | You might be getting what you wish for:
         | 
         | "Counter-Strike 2 sounds have been reworked to better reflect
         | the physical environment, be more distinct, and express more
         | game state. They have also been rebalanced for a more
         | comfortable listening experience."
         | 
         | https://counter-strike.net/cs2
        
         | TechBro8615 wrote:
         | It's funny because "audio bugs" are one of the most frequent
         | complaints in the Apex community. But that's probably just
         | because the players have gotten so used to depending on spatial
         | audio when it works properly, that they get especially
         | frustrated when it doesn't.
        
           | TheCapn wrote:
           | I've always found the complaints about audio weird. It almost
           | seems like something that plagues consoles or low end
           | hardware? I only say this because I'm a day 1 player of Apex
           | and can maybe think of a half dozen that audio has failed me,
           | but for known things like the super quiet Octane pad landings
           | having no audio or prior to Ashe's ultimate being made
           | louder. But if you go to the Apex subreddit, especially daily
           | threads there are dozens of users complaining about it as
           | though it is a pervasive issue that everyone should care
           | about. Is it random, but I've been lucky? Is it poor
           | hardware? Is it only on consoles?
        
           | tym0 wrote:
           | Doubly interesting knowing that both their engines are
           | descendants of Source.
        
         | isatty wrote:
         | Valve is usually pretty good at sound, atleast it is in Dota 2.
         | I can follow an entire game with only sound effects (I also did
         | play the game for 10 years, which contributes).
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | I hope they don't turn it into Modern warefare
        
       | jacooper wrote:
       | Hope it remains free and easy to run on light laptops
        
         | lavela wrote:
         | I second this. From my youth where I just couldn't afford a
         | better pc, to now where my gaming pc has been off for half a
         | year again because I can't be bothered to switch computers, the
         | relative undemanding nature of Counter Strike has been part of
         | the core identity of the game and reason to stick to it for me.
         | 
         | (And of course it's just nice for as many people as possible to
         | be able to play it)
        
       | snickerbockers wrote:
       | It's hard to believe CSGO is already over 10 years old. I
       | remember back at launch people were complaining that this was
       | just CSS aimed at console-plebs (it actually had ports for the
       | xbox 360 and PS3) and a lot of diehard Counter-Strike players
       | were swearing they'd stick to CSS. There were of complaints about
       | headshots being too easy because the hitboxes were a little
       | larger than in CSS.
       | 
       | Valve did an amazing job listening to feedback and supporting
       | their product; I know there are still a lot of people who stick
       | to CSS and even CS 1.6 and I don't mean to de-legitimize their
       | preferences, but today it does seem laughable to suggest that
       | CSGO is just CSS for casuals.
        
       | zppln wrote:
       | As someone who has been holding ramp on Nuke for like 20 years
       | I'm glad the upgrade looks dope.
        
       | zzixp wrote:
       | Valve made a game again!
       | 
       | TF2 when :)
        
         | web3-is-a-scam wrote:
         | I've been replaying Portal 2 on the switch with my wife and
         | Valve games really are something special. We need more of them.
         | I want to play HL: Alex so badly but can't justify the price of
         | the VR headset, personally.
        
         | sophacles wrote:
         | 15 years ago.
         | 
         | TF3 when?
        
           | thulle wrote:
           | A few years after half-life 3?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Mizza wrote:
       | I don't like the updated aesthetic, looks too cartoony.
        
         | izzytcp wrote:
         | oh you're one of those guys who wants to take us back to real
         | life through computers?
        
       | freshfunk wrote:
       | Will people be able to build on the engine like the original? I
       | used to love playing the Day of Defeat mod (ww2 themed) and could
       | definitely see mass appeal for that on top of this new engine.
        
       | Giorgi wrote:
       | Why is their main point a smoke? Seriously, so many more could
       | have been done.
        
         | lbotos wrote:
         | Because this is a big complaint from the current player base?
         | 
         | Do you play? I do and these new smokes will absolutely shift
         | gameplay and I think towards faster more dynamic games.
        
       | weird-eye-issue wrote:
       | It is good that they will be keeping the same skins in the new
       | engine
       | 
       | I made a bet that they would and my skins have increased about
       | $40k in value over the last two years :P
        
       | nonethewiser wrote:
       | I don't play CS anymore so I don't appreciate this firsthand.
       | Besides the smokes, it looks pretty much the same. Do the physics
       | feel different or something?
       | 
       | My understanding is that this is CSGO ported to source 2. I'm not
       | clear on what the differences between the engines are, or if it
       | was a rework of the original engine or completely new.
        
         | 91edec wrote:
         | The new tick system will mean physics will be the same for
         | everyone in matchmaking and pro. Previously 64 and 128 tick had
         | different physics for grenades. Now thats completely
         | eliminated.
        
         | jccalhoun wrote:
         | As I understand it, the real advantage is that it will make it
         | easier to make and maintain mods and skins and things than the
         | aged CS:GO version. So they want to make it so that it
         | basically plays exactly the same except prettier.
        
           | emoII wrote:
           | Well the new smoke mechanics will definitely be a game
           | changer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y9MpNcAitQ
        
           | Melatonic wrote:
           | The thing that always killed me about CS:GO was the lack of
           | mods and custom maps. They exist, sure - but not in the
           | amount and creativity that was available for CS:Source or CS
           | 1.5 and 1.6
           | 
           | CS started as a mod so it only makes sense to have tons of
           | cool custom maps
        
             | jccalhoun wrote:
             | Agreed. I played CS back in the beta days and I loved the
             | different maps and things like the hostage and even the VIP
             | scenarios. I miss that variety. dust2 is good but how about
             | that one where you were small and you could turn the
             | gravity down so you could jump all over? rattrap? something
             | like that.
        
       | bmitc wrote:
       | I didn't realize Valve was still actively developing new games
       | aside from Dota. What was the last big non-Dota game they did?
       | Portal 2? CS:GO?
        
         | finfrastrcuture wrote:
         | Half Life: Alyx
        
         | depr wrote:
         | Artifact came after Dota
        
       | Workaccount2 wrote:
       | I'm dubious about the changes to smoke. The volumetric stuff, is
       | cool, but being able to shoot holes in it and blow it away with
       | grenades is a really huge game play change.
       | 
       | I suppose they have to shake up the game a little, but the CS
       | community is very stubborn about change. We'll have to see how
       | they take it.
        
         | orbital-decay wrote:
         | I'm sure they had plenty of feedback on all new features from
         | the selected pros. It doesn't necessarily mean the change is
         | good, of course, but at least it can be reverted.
        
         | johnchristopher wrote:
         | > I suppose they have to shake up the game a little, but the CS
         | community is very stubborn about change. We'll have to see how
         | they take it.
         | 
         | Just learn from CS:Source and pour more money into tournaments
         | et voila.
        
         | matsemann wrote:
         | If you look at the video, the smoke slowly fills the void
         | again.
         | https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/apps/csgo/images/csgo...
         | 
         | I think it could be a cool new meta.
        
       | dsab wrote:
       | Nothing about new weapons and shooting model, it will be the same
       | arcade joke
        
         | make3 wrote:
         | it's a game not a shooting simulator? and one of the most
         | successful at that. i'm not sure making it more realistic would
         | achieve anything at all
        
       | Overtonwindow wrote:
       | This is amazing. This is truly a solid upgrade.
        
       | Aeroi wrote:
       | Am I the only one who thinks the added "realities" to Counter-
       | Strike have continually made the game worse? I feel like the
       | simplicity and hard corners of 1.6 made the game fantastic for
       | 5v5 gameplay and more competitive. I enjoy the lack of layers and
       | features.
        
         | ceedan wrote:
         | I prefer 1.6 as well. Nostalgia. I do love the simplicity,
         | movement mechanics and simple map design.
        
         | devnullbrain wrote:
         | This update makes it more stylized though
        
           | hyperion2010 wrote:
           | The brighter colors feel like a return to a style much more
           | like 1.6. Source and GO always felt too far along the realism
           | slider for the visuals for some reason.
        
         | JamesUtah07 wrote:
         | I've been playing a lot of 1.6 at play-cs.com recently and
         | enjoy it way more than csgo. I think cs source was maybe the
         | sweet spot but I agree that the maps now are too busy and
         | distracting and take away from the gameplay.
        
         | mikkelam wrote:
         | CSGO has just had the most concurrent player count. The game is
         | by no means dying or unpopular. I think the game is in a great
         | state and valve seems to be delivering a lot of what people
         | have asked for. Im intrigued by the new smokes.
        
         | yamazakiwi wrote:
         | This was my first thought when I read about lighting appearing
         | on smokes. I understand they want to upgrade the look but I'm
         | worried that too much will take away from the stripped down
         | feel that makes CS so popular.
        
       | andrewmcwatters wrote:
       | Sub-tick updates sound to me like they're still using a tick rate
       | system, but specific CBasePlayer mechanisms will now undergo
       | interpolation using UserCmd timestamps alongside their rewind
       | buffer to understand specifically where you were during gameplay
       | as opposed to looking backwards in the rewind buffer and not
       | making interpolated calculations based on timestep.
       | 
       | There is still an upperbound where additional granular game
       | states don't occur and that upperbound is based on framerate,
       | afaiu.
       | 
       | We use a similar system in Planimeter Game Engine 2D.[1]
       | 
       | Planimeter engineers are former Source Engine developers.
       | 
       | [1]: https://github.com/Planimeter/game-
       | engine-2d/wiki/Tick_rate_...
        
         | squeaky-clean wrote:
         | Couldn't you separate input from framerate and interpolate
         | based on the input timing? I do this in a reaction-based arcade
         | game I'm working on in Unity with their newer input system.
         | e.g. If they input happens 8ms before the current frame, a
         | projectile is "fast-forwarded" by the equivalent of 8ms, and
         | then is in sync with the tickrate. The bigger issue I've run
         | into is since mobile is my primary target, I've found that
         | phones don't report touch inputs more frequently than their
         | screen refresh rate. Works perfectly fine in the desktop build
         | though with 60fps and a mouse with a 8k polling rate though.
        
           | andrewmcwatters wrote:
           | We write a general purpose game engine, but some of the
           | predefined classes do have integrations exactly like this.
           | What you're describing is similar to what we do for predicted
           | projectiles, yes.
           | 
           | We reused the concept from Team Fortress 2, which is when
           | Valve first implemented the concept, I believe. But the idea
           | is as old as when QuakeWorld first came on the scene. I think
           | I remember Carmack specifically talking about how projectiles
           | wouldn't be predicted in his .plan files, but the overall
           | feel would be much better.
        
             | gabereiser wrote:
             | This is correct. QuakeWorld pushed the limits of real-time
             | networking projectile detection by keeping a small history
             | buffer of interpolated data for the server to perform
             | lookups and hit checks. It was never perfect but it was
             | good enough for fast paced QW games.
             | 
             | https://icculus.org/~marco/quakec/csqc/prediction.html
             | 
             | https://fabiensanglard.net/quakeSource/quakeSourcePredictio
             | n...
        
         | DavidVoid wrote:
         | Overwatch also has sub-frame/tick aiming that's based on your
         | mouse's polling rate [1].
         | 
         | [1] https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/new-
         | feature-%E...
        
         | tines wrote:
         | I love the promise of Planimeter but it's kinda intimidating to
         | get started with. Are there any example games with source that
         | I can tinker with?
        
           | andrewmcwatters wrote:
           | We were doing some experimentation with a future Planimeter
           | Game Engine 3D product, but will be moving back to Game
           | Engine 2D development this upcoming quarter, with a new
           | website planned, a getting started tutorial path, and sample
           | game code included from internal projects. The current
           | version includes example code in the game folder.
           | 
           | I am hoping that a getting started path will encourage new
           | users to help one understand core workflows we've designed
           | for developers, starting with creating entities in a test
           | map, and then updating those levels, and finally, building
           | your own fully-custom features which tie into premade
           | systems.
        
             | tines wrote:
             | I'm really looking forward to this. The fact is that
             | there's no game engine (that I could find after hours of
             | searching) that offers out-of-the-box multiplayer for
             | skilled programmers who just want to make a game, and if
             | Planimeter can deliver that _and_ have good documentation
             | and a clear ramp-up path, it would appeal to a huge
             | audience.
        
               | andrewmcwatters wrote:
               | Thanks, that's been our #1 complaint about large
               | mainstream engines like Unreal, Unity, and Godot. None of
               | them have working out-of-the-box multiplayer (Unreal is
               | the closest, but by default it rubberbands worse than
               | Goldsrc!), and we find it super weird.
               | 
               | Otherwise, we wouldn't have written our own engine.
        
               | sosodev wrote:
               | Are you guys going to separate the networking code from
               | the engine? I would love a sane networking framework to
               | use with Unity/Unreal. I've been writing my own source-
               | esque networking to work with Unity but it's far from
               | perfect. I would love a solid open source implementation
               | here.
        
               | andrewmcwatters wrote:
               | I've been wanting to do this for years. It's still
               | sitting in my IDEAS.md[1] file. But it does require some
               | abstractions that sit above reliable UDP or other
               | alternative transports.
               | 
               | You need an idea of entities or at least some abstraction
               | for a rewind buffer so that you can make calls to some
               | sort of reconcile or predict function.
               | 
               | I don't have an idea of what that looks like in my head.
               | I'd have to think about it. I know it can be done.
               | 
               | [1]: https://github.com/andrewmcwatters/IDEAS.md
        
       | smrtinsert wrote:
       | The visual improvements definitely make me curious about logging
       | in again as an old guy with glasses now
        
       | kuntau wrote:
       | It's CS2 not CSGO2?
        
       | simlevesque wrote:
       | Man this has been in the talks since at least 2015. Dota got
       | Source 2 in 2016...
        
       | richsu-ca wrote:
       | looking at the before/after of the scenes, looks like it went
       | from action movie to a tourist brochure
        
       | qwery wrote:
       | There is only one feature I would need to see changed to get me
       | into Counter-Strike again. Remove the loot boxes. At least make
       | the game itself not include a slot-machine. Ideally, do
       | _something_ about the third-party gambling websites.
       | 
       | The page says
       | 
       | > Bring your entire CS:GO inventory with you to Counter-Strike 2
       | 
       | So, that's not ruling it out, right? (Yes, I am aware that this
       | is essentially asking for the money tap to be turned off)
        
         | ascar wrote:
         | I don't really understand what's your problem with that? It has
         | close to zero impact on actual gameplay.
         | 
         | Considering it's how this game makes money and it's very
         | effective at that, I highly doubt your wish is becoming a
         | reality.
         | 
         | I actually like how you can trade all the skins with other
         | players, so if you don't enjoy gambling but want the skins
         | there is a really convenient option.
        
           | wiseowise wrote:
           | Not OP, but I'd really like to have "No skins" switch.
           | 
           | Having all sorts of rainbow, golden skins ruins immersion for
           | me.
        
             | bwat48 wrote:
             | they'll never do this because one of the main drive to buy
             | cosmetics in multiplayer games is to show off to others
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | As long as the loot boxes don't impact actual game play, I
         | personally don't mind. I don't care for my weapons to have a
         | certain skin, so loot boxes doesn't impact me at all. Although
         | without them, Valve would probably have to start charging for
         | the game again, and that feels unlikely. Plus they probably
         | earn more money on CS now than they ever did before so yeah,
         | unlikely.
        
           | Hikikomori wrote:
           | Hopefully EU will make them illegal, its basically gambling
           | for kids.
        
             | throwawaymobule wrote:
             | Even of it does get legislated as a form of gambling, I can
             | see it continuing in CS behind some sort of age gate. I
             | think it's more of a per-country thing.
             | 
             | Real gambling is very legal in many EU countries.
        
       | ksec wrote:
       | >Counter-Strike: Global Offensive (CS:GO) is a 2012 multiplayer
       | tactical first-person shooter developed by Valve
       | 
       | So that is a free upgrade after _11_ years. How are they suppose
       | to make money?
       | 
       | Edit: Thank you for all the replies. No idea CS GO have loot box
       | and cosmetics IAP. My impression of CS is still stuck in the
       | 1999/2000 era.
       | 
       | It is also amazing how long they kept the game running online. I
       | guess since it is not a RPG there is very little things to store.
       | Keeping running cost low.
       | 
       | Purely from a Graphics POV Source is definitely showing its age.
       | Not that it matters as much for CS players.
        
         | mrguyorama wrote:
         | You sweet summer child. CSGO is INSANELY profitable. Valve
         | makes free money on every single cosmetic purchase, and takes a
         | cut of EVER COSMETIC 2ND HAND MARKET SALE OR TRADE.
        
           | skeaker wrote:
           | Specifically 2nd hand sales that take place on their
           | marketplace, which is Valve's own cash store. Players can
           | still do items-for-items trades for free and that powers a
           | lot of third party markets where there is no Valve cut.
        
         | jimbob45 wrote:
         | _How are they suppose to make money?_
         | 
         | Whales bring in far more money than upgrade fees.
        
         | kbar13 wrote:
         | it's a free to play game. they literally print money on
         | cosmetic items.
        
         | skyyler wrote:
         | I would be willing to bet that a single day of lootbox profits
         | would be more than an entire year of game sales.
        
       | broknbottle wrote:
       | Really cool to see Valve finnaly announce CS 2 but it's somewhat
       | sad knowing this will be the last CS..
        
         | jjcon wrote:
         | Did they say that somewhere or are you just thinking that will
         | be the case since valve isn't doing tons of releases these
         | days?
        
           | varun_chopra wrote:
           | OP is referring to a common joke that Valve doesn't count
           | over 2.
           | 
           | Half Life 2
           | 
           | Team Fortress 2
           | 
           | ...
        
             | jjcon wrote:
             | Woosh - went right over my head. Haha okay yep I'm tracking
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | palmtree3000 wrote:
         | Don't forget CS2: Episode 1!
        
       | baxuz wrote:
       | I gave up on FPS games that use spray patterns.
       | 
       | Makes no sense to aim at your feet to shoot an opponent after
       | memorizing the spray pattern, or missing an opponent after
       | shooting at them point blank for 3 seconds.
       | 
       | Reminds me of Morrowind:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNXYrAkUntU
        
         | lbotos wrote:
         | you won't miss point blank unless you are moving :D
         | 
         | source: my CS movement sucks
        
         | akhosravian wrote:
         | It's certainly unintuitive, but surely it isn't necessary for
         | video game mechanics to map directly onto real world actions to
         | be interesting.
        
         | potatoman22 wrote:
         | The way I see it, the other two options are to have random
         | spray patterns or have every shot be perfectly accurate. Both
         | of those seem worse than current spray patterns.
        
           | Eji1700 wrote:
           | Really it's a style thing. Arena shooters like Unreal have
           | plenty of perfectly accurate weapons, but they have totally
           | different mechanics to support that.
           | 
           | Something like CS where the TTK is basically instant
           | certainly can't have that, but at the same time I don't think
           | it'd be "patterns" if it was done today. Changing something
           | that fundamental at this point though would probably lose you
           | the scene, as it's just "part of the game" at this point, and
           | if you don't like it there's plenty of other options.
        
             | vkou wrote:
             | Apex has relatively low TTK, and uses spray patterns,
             | because it's trying to be a competitive, modern, high-
             | skill-ceiling shooter, where it's possible to waste a year
             | of your life on memorizing and compensating for them.
        
         | rejectfinite wrote:
         | Because hitscan everything makes it too easy
        
         | opan wrote:
         | Why not tap or burst instead of spraying then? "click heads",
         | as they say.
        
         | Night_Thastus wrote:
         | The reason is because they want to remove randomness from the
         | game, so player skill is the deciding factor in winning a
         | fight. It's actually the exact opposite design from Morrowind,
         | where it was inspired by the randomness of tabletop RPGs.
         | 
         | So if the shots aren't randomly distributed in a cone, and
         | aren't perfectly accurate, and aren't a fixed spray
         | pattern...what exactly is left?
        
           | MagicMoonlight wrote:
           | Make the gun move... but follow the gun with the reticle. So
           | you still need to adjust for recoil but the bullets actually
           | go where you are aiming
        
             | Night_Thastus wrote:
             | Games have tried that before, it's extremely jarring to
             | have your cursor/camera shake around without your input,
             | and depending on how it's done it makes visibility suck.
        
       | gadders wrote:
       | I wish some of these latest AI advances went into giving us
       | better in-game bots so I can have fun playing on my own rather
       | than be sniped by an expert player from half the game away who
       | thought he would play on the newbie server for (his own) fun.
        
         | dybber wrote:
         | The CSGO ranking system is not that bad, most of the time you
         | play with others on your skill level
        
           | atom-morgan wrote:
           | Yeah the issue is how fucking toxic the CS community is. I'm
           | usually pretty numb to people talking shit but my god, I
           | always remember why I stopped playing CS every time I
           | reinstall to play it again.
        
             | cyberlurker wrote:
             | While the community is generally garbage, Valorant and LoL
             | have even worse chats, text or voice. I get chill teammates
             | more often in CS than elsewhere.
        
             | pramsky wrote:
             | It has been toxic since I started playing cs way back in
             | 2000.
        
             | Jolter wrote:
             | Last I played was in 2018 I think. I don't remember many
             | problems, even on the Silver ranks I played. Maybe every
             | third game or so, some griefer or abusive player would get
             | voted off the team, which was fairly frustrating but not
             | always catastrophic to the game.
        
               | doodlesdev wrote:
               | Every third game one player would get voted off the team
               | in a 5v5 game, and you don't remember many problems?
               | That's a serious issue, it absolutely isn't normal.
        
               | cyberlurker wrote:
               | They updated the game so that you don't get a bot
               | anymore. This greatly decreased the amount of vote
               | kicking.
        
         | bakugo wrote:
         | Sounds like singleplayer games would be more your speed.
        
           | the_af wrote:
           | Speaking for myself: yes. The only multiplayer FPS I ever
           | truly enjoyed was L4D, and only because it's cooperative (I
           | did enjoy Versus mode, but coop is where it shined for me).
           | 
           | The problem is that many military shooters don't (or didn't)
           | have singleplayer, or what they did have was a simple demo
           | for the MP mode. That sucks. I enjoyed the first iterations
           | of the CoD and Modern Warfare titles because they were all
           | about the singleplayer campaign, full of plot twists. I got
           | tired eventually and no longer play any CoD or MW games, but
           | that's a different issue.
           | 
           | If you had very specific periods of time you were interested
           | in, it was even worse. There was a time when there was
           | absolutely no singleplayer 'Nam FPS, only Battlefield:
           | Vietnam, which a- sucked, and b- was multiplayer.
        
           | gadders wrote:
           | Mostly? I like the Assassin's Creed games, Witcher 3, Far Cry
           | etc. I'd probably play more multi-player games if I lasted
           | more than 30s and didn't have to sit out the rest of the
           | round.
           | 
           | (Yeah, yeah "git gud" etc)
        
         | thomasahle wrote:
         | Could this also be achieved with a better rating system that
         | automatically matches you with players of your own level?
        
           | gadders wrote:
           | That's game-able though, no? I know people can on CoD.
        
             | bee_rider wrote:
             | We're a more than a decade into the arms race of "video
             | game matchmaking is game-able" and "let's try to counteract
             | attempts to game the ranking system," I wonder who is
             | winning at the moment.
        
               | vkou wrote:
               | That's not a difficult problem to solve.
               | 
               | The difficult problem to solve is to find the right space
               | between "Matchmaking results in the most skilled players
               | being at the top of the ladder" and "Matchmaking results
               | in _fun_ matches. "
               | 
               | The casual community for any game is much larger than the
               | top-0.1% community, and cares a lot more about the latter
               | than the former.
        
               | Ekaros wrote:
               | And by my understanding at least some time back the
               | top-0.1% community is anyways outside the ladder system.
               | On third-party services. So CSGO kinda should aim for the
               | later.
        
           | lbotos wrote:
           | CS does match making now. They had a few problems:
           | 
           | 1. Small pool of active players so queue times could be long
           | 
           | 2. They had a "gulf" where you got de-ranked down into lower
           | tiers and it was a lot of good players in the bottom tiers
           | that couldn't fight their way out to higher tiers with
           | possibly equal players.
           | 
           | They fixed 2 with a re-calibrating a few months ago. They
           | have 18 ranks now. I jumped up 5ish with the re-calibrate.
        
             | rejectfinite wrote:
             | 1. Small pool of active players so queue times could be
             | long
             | 
             | CS:GO usually has 900k players online at any time? Yes not
             | all playing MM but still...
        
         | Jhsto wrote:
         | Have you played some of the community FFA servers? If you
         | choose hard bots, on most servers, the bots have inhuman
         | reaction and accuracy.
         | 
         | But I guess your point is fair -- it would be much nicer to see
         | bots that cooperate as well as they aim. Would allow much more
         | realistic takeover scenarios to be played.
        
           | ncallaway wrote:
           | Yea, I think your second paragraph captures it. "Better"
           | doesn't mean mechanically better at aiming. It means more
           | realistic, and player-like behavior. Maybe also more more
           | behavioral variance, so they don't feel like a team of 5
           | copies of the same person.
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | I remember superhuman bots in Perfect Dark. It was kind of
           | fun to play against them sometimes (by setting traps and
           | cheesing map geometries mostly) but it was not very much like
           | playing multiplayer at all.
        
         | bionade24 wrote:
         | The hardest bot level on CS:GO already is more challenging than
         | low- or mid-level players. To be fair, the level below the
         | hardest is way easier. All non-wingman standard maps don't
         | allow sniping over much of the map. Are you talking about a
         | different game?
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | You're being too literal.
           | 
           | Offline play with bots lets you control the difficulty.
           | Online play largely does not. Some people just wanna be John
           | Wick for fun.
        
           | akhosravian wrote:
           | I suspect the concern OP was referring to was not that bots
           | aren't challenging, but to the sense they play differently
           | than players do. There is overlap in what it means to be good
           | vs players and bots, but there are also elements unique to
           | one or the other.
        
             | squeaky-clean wrote:
             | Yeah this is the biggest complaint with bots. It's like a
             | Chess AI. Sure the best Chess AI can absolutely dominate
             | any human player, but they do it in an inhuman and un-fun
             | way.
             | 
             | Like sure a Counter Strike bot can aim better and faster
             | than me. But their positioning and overall strategic
             | gameplay sucks.
        
         | josefresco wrote:
         | I play offline with bots exclusively. I'm older, have been
         | playing CS since the beta days and no longer have the patience
         | to play with real people and all their inherent aggravations.
        
         | aceazzameen wrote:
         | I might start playing FPS games again. I'm too old to compete
         | with younger people with more time than me.
        
           | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
           | _> I'm too old to compete with younger people with more time
           | than me._
           | 
           | Excuse when young: No wonder I suck, I'm competing with
           | grownups with better computers than mine.
           | 
           | Excuse when adult: No wonder I suck, I'm competing with
           | youngsters with more free time than me.
        
             | a4isms wrote:
             | Sorry, are we talking about videogaming? Or a career as a
             | programmer?
        
               | nathants wrote:
               | everything is the same.
        
       | time0ut wrote:
       | I never thought I would be excited to play CS again, but here we
       | are...
        
       | danwee wrote:
       | Is it just me or as the quality of the game improves, it's more
       | difficult to spot the enemy? In CS 1.6, if you have a
       | cop/terrorist standing against any wall, you definitely will
       | notice it (mainly because walls/buildings/whatever didn't have
       | that much quality regarding details). But in the video of CS 2,
       | since the quality is so great (both for cops/terrorists and for
       | the rest of the maps), somehow I think it's kinda difficult to
       | distinguish others. Like in real life I guess?
        
         | aeternum wrote:
         | I think you're right and it's generally a problem for gameplay.
         | Real life scenarios often involve a lot of hiding and waiting.
         | If a game becomes too realistic it starts to simulate that
         | which leads to a boring game.
        
         | mpsprd wrote:
         | If you check the video on maps they made everything brighter
         | and made aesthetic changes to improve acquisition, so it was
         | covered.
        
         | mrkeen wrote:
         | I had this experience when I played COD 4 (2007). It definitely
         | felt different than the usual scanning for enemy player models.
        
         | hgs3 wrote:
         | The situation was even worse when Valve added custom skins
         | players could buy. Some of those skins blended in with their
         | background a little too well. Their initial "solution" was to
         | add more lights to the maps to brighten them up, but that
         | approach is obviously not great so they added a system to boost
         | player model contrast dynamically against the environment [1].
         | 
         | [1] https://imgur.com/gallery/P37nKBs#o3QNSgs
        
       | esskay wrote:
       | It's always somewhat baffled me that Valve didn't do more with
       | the CS brand, and instead allowed Call of Duty and (to a lesser
       | extent) Battlefield to be the go-to FPS games.
        
         | dgellow wrote:
         | Valorant, CS:GO, Apex are the most streamed FPS according to
         | https://gamesight.io/leaderboards/fps-games.
         | 
         | The counter strike player base is really massive.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | Is CoD and BF really more popular than CS? Hard to find numbers
         | for CoD and BF, but CSGO currently have 1,000,000 online
         | players right now, ~0.5 million viewers on Twitch. CoD Warzone
         | + CoD MW 2 has ~50k viewers on Twitch, but unable to find
         | number of online players, but I cannot imagine it being 1
         | million if there is only 50k viewers on Twitch.
        
         | rejectfinite wrote:
         | If you play on consoles sure...
        
       | glanzwulf wrote:
       | Haven't been this excited about CS in a while. I'm coming back
       | baby!
        
         | stingraycharles wrote:
         | I have literally lost 1.5 years of college around 2001 - 2007
         | due to Counterstrike. We had a clan with several people in my
         | dorm, and it was awesome. It was also around that time that I
         | felt like I had a productive day if I did laundry, and I had to
         | really force myself to remove it from my computer as I realised
         | it was simply too addictive for me to start a few quick matches
         | all day long.
         | 
         | In hindsight, I don't really regret it, it was probably one of
         | the last times in my life I could procrastinate like that and
         | get away with it reasonably well.
        
           | Melatonic wrote:
           | It was also a much more pure game back then - there were no
           | cosmetic items (besides free skins you installed yourself
           | from people doing them for free - some of which were insanely
           | high quality and others were just insanely ugly but also
           | hilarious). There were no achievements. It was just skill and
           | gameplay.
        
           | ksec wrote:
           | It is nice to hear these story, just to know I am not the
           | only one with Gaming addition problem in Uni / College. And I
           | think 3-4 years into the society I stopped all gaming
           | completely. Working Life is exhausting.
        
             | pizza wrote:
             | Linux thinclient as my dormroom desktop: some of my best
             | grades semesters
             | 
             | Windows gaming machine: some of my flakiest semesters
        
             | lintimes wrote:
             | Incredible that shortly after many of us went through this,
             | professional competitive gaming could later be a considered
             | career.
        
               | vecter wrote:
               | Yeah but only 20-30 people in any region make it as a pro
               | player. The odds are just about as bad as being an NBA
               | player. You didn't miss out on anything.
        
         | metaltyphoon wrote:
         | Same! Heck yeah!!!
        
       | KronisLV wrote:
       | I catch myself wishing for something that would mix the game up a
       | bit - say, new or different weapons, or maybe a system where you
       | could assemble your own weapon skins from multiple materials or
       | customize parts individually for different looks.
       | 
       | Then again, playing it safe because it's a popular competitive
       | game title is probably a good idea and the improvements sound
       | really good! Seems like a great way to modernize the game without
       | changing it too much, while bringing people's items and such
       | forwards.
        
         | xracy wrote:
         | I think subtle changes are going to go a lot farther in this
         | game. In particular, I'm imagining the smoke changes are going
         | to be a bigger change than they seem...
        
           | Eji1700 wrote:
           | This exactly. CS has a ton of established theory built in.
           | Some of these changes are kinda equivalent to "pawns can take
           | in front of them" level of disruptive to the established
           | understanding/meta.
        
             | the_af wrote:
             | I'm fascinated about communities who play the same game for
             | decades and don't want any changes to "the meta".
             | 
             | Is CS truly so good that any change which forces someone to
             | re-learn the ropes is unwelcome? Do they want to keep
             | playing the same game for another decade?
        
               | Ekaros wrote:
               | I think in general the community can try games like
               | Overwatch, Apex, Valorant, COD, BF etc. And be pretty
               | certain that most of the features and game mechanics from
               | those wouldn't really make CS a better game.
               | 
               | I think they probably want to keep CS at least on core
               | level same for more decades. It has been around this long
               | so something must have been done right.
        
               | the_af wrote:
               | But at some point, playing the same videogame with the
               | same meta starts to feel boring, right?
               | 
               | I know the obvious answer is "well, chess hasn't changed
               | (much) and people play it for their entire lives". And
               | yes, I would eventually find chess boring too!
        
               | squeaky-clean wrote:
               | It's kind of like comfort food. CS has variants like
               | gungame and deathmatch, you can have modded servers with
               | alternate damage, fire rate, recoil, low gravity, or even
               | mods that change it entirely and turn it into a zombie
               | horror game or an RPG. And those are fun, but ultimately
               | I want to return to the game I know and love.
               | 
               | Chess is the obvious comparison, but also so is any major
               | sport. There hasn't been anything significantly changed
               | about Soccer, Basketball, Baseball, and so on, in a long
               | time as well and most people don't have issues with that.
               | Once you eliminate changing the game rules you're left
               | with only trying to develop your own personal skills.
        
           | matthavener wrote:
           | Yep, even something as small as a magazine capacity change or
           | price for the AWP has huge effects on team strategy
        
             | lbotos wrote:
             | Our awper ran out of bullets the other week forgetting the
             | magazine change lol. Definitely changes the round dynamics
             | as he can't hold the same and has to be more judicious.
             | 
             | (CS dropped from 10 bullets to 5)
        
           | smrtinsert wrote:
           | And this is what CS devs understood over similar FPS of that
           | era. Other game studios would always rewrite their game from
           | scratch and create new balance mistakes and issues (looking
           | at you tribes) while CS made incremental improvements where
           | knowledge typically wasn't lost between generations of
           | players and could be passed down.
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | Absolutely! Seems like there is a counter-effect to smokes
           | (throwing a HE grenade), one could imagine something similar
           | will happen with other grenades too. For example, maybe
           | flashbangs ends up being dampened by a smoke as well, or
           | something like that.
        
       | awill wrote:
       | I'm very surprised they aren't prioritizing the Linux build
       | during the test.
       | 
       | I get most players are still on Windows, but Valve literally have
       | a Linux console, and they've ported essentially all their games
       | to Linux.
       | 
       | If Valve don't even prioritize Linux, why would other devs?
        
         | ho_schi wrote:
         | My expectation was actually a Linux-First-Approach to push
         | Linux and the Steamdeck.
         | 
         | Delaying tests on Linux feels really bad because this means we
         | will unnecessary bugs upon release.
        
       | system16 wrote:
       | I haven't followed CS for some time so I might be missing
       | something key about this announcement... but to my eyes the
       | graphics and effects look smooth, but strangely outdated. The
       | smoke effects look like something that would be exciting a decade
       | ago, and the characters move awkwardly and unnaturally.
        
       | popcalc wrote:
       | Those smoke effects are beautiful!
        
         | polotics wrote:
         | Is it just me, or does the added colour saturation on some of
         | the before/after pics make CS2 look like Fortnite?
        
           | skeaker wrote:
           | That would hardly be a bad thing in my opinion, given that
           | Fortnite looks fantastic
        
           | haunter wrote:
           | Nah Fortnite is much more vibrant especially since the new
           | Unreal engine update https://youtu.be/O6GC8TZbJmI
           | 
           | It's more colorful for sure but still looks "pale"
        
           | tand22 wrote:
           | The saturation and brightness looks overdone in my opinion.
           | Too unrealistic and cartoonish.
        
           | fleetfox wrote:
           | It's an attempt to solve "player readability". It's common
           | complaint in CS:GO. Many pros play with color vibrance
           | cranked in driver or monitor settings.
        
           | jccalhoun wrote:
           | the new gui reminded me of Valorant.
        
           | mckirk wrote:
           | I'd say it's a lot closer to Valorant than to the max-
           | saturation graphics of Fortnite. But I think they found a
           | good balance, it still looks like you can take the world
           | seriously imho.
        
       | mckirk wrote:
       | Amazing to finally see some work being put into CS, and just this
       | smoke grenade sneak peek already makes me very curious to see how
       | this will play in practice.
       | 
       | It's clear at least that they aren't afraid of changing the meta
       | in a rather substantial way -- which is of course dangerous on
       | one hand, since I'm guessing CS is so popular precisely because
       | of its timelessness, but also necessary on the other hand if we
       | ever want to improve upon it.
        
         | chrsig wrote:
         | if starcraft/starcraft 2 is any indication of what might occur,
         | they'll just be treated as two completely different games.
        
           | toasteros wrote:
           | There's a part of the website that states it'll be an upgrade
           | to CSGO. I wonder if that means we're losing CSGO, or if
           | there will be some sort of "legacy mode" that either retains
           | CSGO as an option or simply shims its gameplay into CS2.
        
           | pawelmurias wrote:
           | Starcraft 2 and 1 are very different games not slight
           | variations of the same shooter
        
         | birdyrooster wrote:
         | People still play 1.6 competitively so of course we will add
         | one more flavor. Just like MTG players and new formats.
        
         | barrysteve wrote:
         | CS does change substantially between releases. The movement has
         | gotten slower and less nimble since CS:Source and the AK/M4
         | primary dominance is markedly reduced in CS:GO.
        
       | sigmar wrote:
       | I'm happy to see more game devs eschew realism for the benefit of
       | gameplay. Does shooting a bullet clear a tunnel through smoke
       | IRL? No. Does making it do that make for some cool gameplay? hell
       | yes
        
       | pipeline_peak wrote:
       | Source is showing its age, just switch to Unreal already...
       | 
       | It's not like Valve makes games anymore.
        
         | tapoxi wrote:
         | Valorant, CS:GO's closest competitor, is in Unreal and looks
         | similar. These games are going for high framerates and running
         | on the majority of PCs, even ones with integrated graphics.
         | Switching engines wouldn't do them any favors, and it would
         | severely cripple their modding tools.
        
         | esskay wrote:
         | Given unreal is owned by their biggest competitor theres little
         | to no chance of that happeng. Valve arent really a video game
         | developer anymore, they just tinker on the side for fun.
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | Granted, last time Valve released a proper game was in 2020
           | (Alyx), but to say they are not a developer anymore isn't
           | super fair. They take their time, and their priorities
           | probably are elsewhere, they still do develop games.
        
       | Melatonic wrote:
       | So....anybody work for Valve and want to get me in on this?
       | 
       | I do not have a ton of CS:GO playtime unfortunately but I do have
       | an assload of CS:Source along with probably even more playing CS
       | 1.5 and 1.6 (started in the early beta days). Also worked briefly
       | as a video game tester and now I do system infrastructure -
       | definitely good at finding bugs and gameplay improvements :-)
        
       | Melatonic wrote:
       | So....anybody work for Valve and want to get me in on this?
       | 
       | I do not have a ton of CS:GO playtime unfortunately but I do have
       | an assload of CS:Source along with probably even more playing CS
       | 1.5 and 1.6 (started in the early beta days). Also worked briefly
       | as a video game tester and now I do system infrastructure -
       | definitely good at finding bugs and gameplay improvements :-)
        
         | CyborgCabbage wrote:
         | https://steamcommunity.com/faqs/steam-help/view/5ED2-ED8E-81...
        
       | TechBro8615 wrote:
       | Will there be a battle royale mode, or have we finally moved past
       | the trend of adding one to every new FPS game?
        
         | martinsmit wrote:
         | CS:GO already has this, it's called Danger Zone
        
       | TheCaptain4815 wrote:
       | How do we get early access?
        
         | 6581 wrote:
         | https://steamcommunity.com/faqs/steam-help/view/5ED2-ED8E-81...
        
       | nonethewiser wrote:
       | > As a result, regardless of tick rate, your moving and shooting
       | will be equally responsive and your grenades will always land the
       | same way.
       | 
       | Is this a signal that they will reduce tick rate? Based off what
       | they said, what would the reason be not to?
       | 
       | I'm familiar with tick rate as a user but I'm not sure how it
       | manifests in the code/hardware. Like, if it's some setting they
       | can easily change or if it's the consequence of something else. I
       | wonder if they can easily reduce it to lower costs or something.
        
         | takoid wrote:
         | Valve is getting rid of tick rate entirely. Here is a video
         | which explains it briefly:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqhhFl5zgA0
        
           | nonethewiser wrote:
           | Interesting, I will watch that when I get a chance. Maybe it
           | addresses some of these thoughts already.
           | 
           | I wonder how much this is just reframing the concepts though.
           | It kinda seems like they are just increasing tick rate
           | tremendously because the type of system we call tick rate has
           | changed.
           | 
           | I mean, there has to be some interval at which the game is
           | updated right? Wouldn't that be the tick rate?
        
           | Thaxll wrote:
           | There is no such thing as removing tick rate, the video is
           | confusing, I think it's improvement with rollback and also
           | gameplay improvements with how grenades work etc ...
        
           | Laremere wrote:
           | Definitely not. Games operate in a loop: gather input, run
           | update (tick), and then render the frame.
           | 
           | The problem with the above is when sub-frame timings matter.
           | What they're doing is being smarter about how they're
           | calculating things.
           | 
           | Eg: A 'naive' approach to movement could be:
           | forward_pressed() {         moving_forward = true;       }
           | update_position() {         if (moving_forward) {
           | pos += time_since_last_update * player_speed;         }
           | }
           | 
           | But an approach which would improve timings is:
           | forward_pressed() {         forward_pressed_at = time.now();
           | moving_forward = true;       }            update_position() {
           | if (moving_forward) {           time_since_pressed =
           | forward_pressed_at - time.now();           if
           | (time_since_pressed < time_since_last_update) {
           | pos += time_since_pressed * player_speed;           } else {
           | pos += time_since_last_update * player_speed;           }
           | }       }
           | 
           | Except things are more complicated as you need to consider
           | exact position someone was when someone else pressed the
           | shoot button, etc.
           | 
           | To answer grandparent's question: They'll likely reducing
           | tick rate to save server costs. However they can't lower too
           | much without having noticeable effects for systems which
           | don't account for sub-frame accuracy.
           | 
           | Nits: Above is a simplification and theoretically you could
           | do things differently, but as this is in Source Engine 2,
           | they're definitely using ticks still.
        
             | adamwk wrote:
             | Aren't you describing frame rate? Tick rate is different;
             | it's when the server synchronizes state across clients
        
               | squeaky-clean wrote:
               | Frame rate is often an interpolated and predicted view
               | over a fixed tickrate.
        
           | haunter wrote:
           | Sounds more like rollback netcode to me. You can't just
           | remove tick rate.
        
             | bakugo wrote:
             | The concept of "rollback netcode" is something that
             | generally only applies to fighting games, shooters with
             | dedicated servers use lag compensation instead which just
             | means that, every time you shoot someone, the hit detection
             | is done on the server but the server rolls back the
             | player's position depending on your ping to make sure their
             | position roughly matches what you saw when you shot. CSGO2
             | is just improving this so the rolled back player positions
             | can be interpolated between frames instead of only being
             | able to roll back to wherever a player was on an exact
             | tick, which is what it currently does.
        
         | mckirk wrote:
         | We'll have to see whether there even still _is_ a tick rate.
         | Afaik you only need ticks if you need to simulate something in
         | your world that needs iterative updates, such as objects
         | following a complex motion that doesn't have closed-form
         | movement equations. I can't think of anything like that in CS,
         | so basically all the events can just happen at arbitrary times,
         | and the server and clients will still know the world's state at
         | any other point in time just from extrapolating from the start
         | time. Take e.g. grenades. So far they were updated through
         | iterations at either 64 or 128 ticks per second, with both
         | having a slight divergence from an actual parabola (the 64 tick
         | variant diverging more than the 128 one), since between the
         | ticks the moment would only be interpolated. That meant that
         | nades were behaving differently depending on tick rate. Now,
         | the grenade just has a start time and start vector, and you can
         | know exactly where it is at any point in time using the closed
         | form movement equations for an object in parabolic flight.
        
         | bakugo wrote:
         | Not all source engine games play nice with variable tickrates
         | but CSGO mostly does, that's why you can play on either 64 or
         | 128. With this change to hit detection though, 128 tick will
         | probably become redundant so 60-70 will probably become the
         | standard across both casual and competitive play. I doubt they
         | will reduce it under 60.
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | The way smoke moves out of the bullets way is comical
        
       | mberning wrote:
       | This is exciting. Guess I need to build another windows PC.
        
         | blueridge wrote:
         | Me too!
        
         | tapoxi wrote:
         | Valve ships all their games on Linux and Mac, so you don't need
         | to run Windows.
        
           | GormHouj wrote:
           | >Can I participate in the Counter-Strike 2 Limited Test on
           | Linux or macOS? [1]
           | 
           | No. The Counter-Strike 2 Limited Test is only available on
           | Windows.
           | 
           | I'm sure this will change with an official release though.
           | 
           | [1] https://steamcommunity.com/faqs/steam-
           | help/view/5ED2-ED8E-81...
        
             | awill wrote:
             | Wouldn't Proton let you run the Windows version?
        
           | mberning wrote:
           | Have you tried to play CS:GO on a Mac? I can tell you that it
           | does not at all feel the same as a PC.
        
           | bravetraveler wrote:
           | If you wish to participate in CS2 testing however, you do
           | need Windows
           | 
           | I was hoping being a seasoned CS:GO player on Linux might
           | bump me into a niche to get a ticket, but alas - Windows only
           | for now
        
         | [deleted]
        
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