[HN Gopher] Counter-Strike 2 - Limited Test for select CS:GO pla...
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Counter-Strike 2 - Limited Test for select CS:GO players
Author : swores
Score : 373 points
Date : 2023-03-22 16:52 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (counter-strike.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (counter-strike.net)
| sourcecodeplz wrote:
| Variable tick-rate, volumetric smokes, Source 2 engine. It will
| be AMAZING!
| matsemann wrote:
| sub-tick updates is interesting. Remember it being a source of
| frustration 15 years ago, wonder how they're working around it.
| izzydata wrote:
| The smoke looks cool, but is there a way to play without
| cheaters?
| TheCowboy wrote:
| People have been wondering if this would come with better
| management of cheaters, but it looks like it's unclear. The
| main reason I picked Valorant over CSGO is mostly because of
| how well they deal with cheating. But I think CSGO might be the
| better game, as Riot doesn't really seem to have good judgement
| when it comes to introducing meta breaking changes.
| codeflo wrote:
| The smoke effects are cool, but otherwise, it doesn't feel like
| the graphics are really that much better, just different. Flatter
| dynamic range (everything is bright now). Busier textures.
| Exactly the same pixely shadows (most visible in the screenshot
| "Back Plat"), which makes me think the engine hasn't been
| modernized that much.
| wolpoli wrote:
| > Flatter dynamic range (everything is bright now)
|
| This change seems arbitrary. In CS3, they could reverse this
| change and make the case that they improved the atmosphere, and
| people will agree with it.
| squeaky-clean wrote:
| It seems very intentional to me, they mention "character
| read" as a goal for the relights on the website. IMO CS1.6
| still has the best ability to quickly see an enemy than any
| of the other CS games (it's still way better than something
| like CoD). The flat lighting with less visual noise could
| really help bring this back.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| Consider the comparison images:
|
| https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/apps/csgo/images/csgo.
| ..
|
| https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/apps/csgo/images/csgo.
| ..
|
| (The former is CS2, the latter CSGO). In my office, with the
| sun streaming in through the double windows, with relatively
| low-gamma, lower-contrast old IPS monitors that don't suck
| but aren't 4k professional OLEDs, yeah, I absolutely want
| everything to be bright. It kills the horror-movie feel,
| where your eyes are at the edge of their abilities, squinting
| and peering into the foggy shadows for barely-perceptible
| hints of motion, but if you want to actually see what you're
| doing you want flattened dynamic range.
|
| If you're not watching on an HDR monitor in a pitch-black
| home theater, you can't see anything in Batman (2022) or Game
| of Thrones, or any of the modern "realistic", "gritty,"
| underexposed shows. It's definitely more artistically
| appealing in ideal conditions, but if you're not going to
| perfectly recreate the ideal viewing conditions (and crank up
| the gamma on your display to compensate a bit while you're at
| it), it's pointless.
|
| I have the same complaint regarding dynamic range with
| regards to sound mixes, too. I understand that the real
| battlefield sends soldiers home with tinnitus because
| explosions are head-splittingly loud. I don't want that
| realism when I'm in-game, flashbangs should not be mixed in
| Counter-strike such that their own monitors and
| headsets/speakers physically incapacitate the players if they
| turn the volume up to be able to hear the radio commands.
| When listening to a movie, I usually just accept that I have
| to turn on subtitles (even though my hearing is fine) and
| will have to read the dialog if I don't want to wake up my
| kids with the house shaking when there's an on-screen
| explosion.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| > When listening to a movie, I usually just accept that I
| have to turn on subtitles (even though my hearing is fine)
| and will have to read the dialog if I don't want to wake up
| my kids with the house shaking when there's an on-screen
| explosion.
|
| Some audio receivers feature some kind of "baby's asleep"
| mode that boosts the center channel & vocal-range
| frequencies while suppressing everything else. Folks who
| don't want the real Theatrical Experience (which I think is
| actually _most_ home viewers) probably ought to just leave
| that mode on all the time.
|
| An alternative for systems without that feature is to just
| manually boost the center channel.
| vecter wrote:
| I believe the former is CS:GO and the latter is CS2.
| the_af wrote:
| > _Consider the comparison images_
|
| To be honest, I strongly prefer the CS:GO image. It looks
| more interesting, with better contrast and a spookier feel
| to it. It even has details where the CS2 image doesn't,
| like the grating on the floor on the left side.
|
| The CS:GO version reads more cinematic to me, while the CS2
| seems cartoony/gamey even though they might have improved
| the geometry (I can't tell).
| the_af wrote:
| > _Flatter dynamic range (everything is bright now)._
|
| I was about to write this.
|
| I like the improvements, but I dislike that everything is
| brighter and with less contrast in the examples. The CS:GO
| environments look more characterful, almost like comparing The
| Matrix with a greenish tint to a hypothetical Matrix where
| everything was bright and clean.
|
| I wish they could mix the improvements with the older
| lights/contrast.
| Xeoncross wrote:
| I felt like they kept the dynamic range, but now everything is
| 3 levels brighter and you have to deal with glare off surfaces.
| tapoxi wrote:
| I think the big upgrades in Source 2 are around tooling. The
| Valve Hammer editor for CS:GO is a glorified Quake map editor.
| I think it can even still edit Quake maps.
| awestroke wrote:
| Why bother with high quality shadows if everyone will just turn
| them off immediately?
| nebulousthree wrote:
| If you turn off shadows in cs you're putting yourself at a
| significant disadvantage. Many games have been clinched on a
| shadow that was noticed.
| awestroke wrote:
| Not turning off shadows, turning off high quality shadows
| metaltyphoon wrote:
| Why turn off shadows when you can actually see your own by
| looking at it? You would be at major disadvantage when
| playing competitive.
| Etheryte wrote:
| I think you might've misread the parent comment, as far as
| I can tell they meant turning high quality shadows off,
| e.g. switching shadow quality to low, not switching shadows
| off altogether.
| beebeepka wrote:
| I like what I am seeing here. Same game but better. I don't want
| to sound inflammatory but CS: Source felt like the only iteration
| that didn't feel right. Graphics were much better but I wasn't
| satisfied until CS:Go. It's basically CS with the Left 4 Dead 2
| engine build.
| Thaxll wrote:
| "Sub-tick updates are the heart of Counter-Strike 2. Previously,
| the server only evaluated the world in discrete time intervals
| (called ticks). Thanks to Counter-Strike 2's sub-tick update
| architecture, servers know the exact instant that motion starts,
| a shot is fired, or a 'nade is thrown."
|
| Not sure what it means but it's probably related to the rollback
| tech in the source 1 engine, which is pretty outdated.
| asmor wrote:
| Rollback is really the best lag compensation tech we have,
| trusting a client to a very small degree to tell their state of
| the world (or rather a delta to current) is much better than
| most other contemporaries. Call of Duty still divides your RTT
| by half at the start of a match and rewinds by that much. On
| connections with asyncronous latency this can be extremely
| impactful.
| entropicdrifter wrote:
| It means they're increasing the granularity of the timeline of
| events in order to improve accuracy and fairness.
| JusticeJuice wrote:
| Yeah, I'm interpreting this as instead of sending an integer
| of the tick that something occured on, they're sending a
| floating number of when it happened.
|
| I assume the float they send will have a limit in accuracy
| however. So really it's not like ticks are 'gone', they're
| just getting much much smaller.
| asmor wrote:
| The ticks aren't going away. They're just sending exact
| timestamps for movement so the server side view of a hitbox
| is more accurate when rewinding hixboes. The difference on
| 60 tick was sometimes large enough to miss headshots on
| faraway targets. It'd of course help if their clock sync
| and anti-drift measures were better now. It's NTP hard
| mode.
| Sniffnoy wrote:
| Is there a reason you would expect them to use floats here
| instead of fixed-point? I would naively guess the latter.
| gravitronic wrote:
| They just meant that things now happen within fractions
| of a time slice, instead of always landing on exactly
| 1/60th of a second boundaries.
| wnevets wrote:
| does that make aimbots more effective?
| kuroguro wrote:
| Aimbots are already too effective, I doubt this changes much.
| JusticeJuice wrote:
| Shouldn't really make any difference, because they're already
| super effective with ticks. Having more fine timing accuracy
| doesn't drastically improve them.
| bob1029 wrote:
| I would assume it works something like this:
|
| At the server, client input events exercise some localized net
| code layer on a purely ad-hoc basis (i.e. serviced in small
| batches the moment packets are received). Players involved in
| these interactions could receive immediate updates from the
| localized, ad-hoc simulation (i.e. "infinite" tick rate).
|
| The global tick is responsible for synchronizing these ad-hoc
| buckets (i.e. the same player can't die to 2 different kill
| shots). Rollback would likely be required in some cases, but if
| the global simulation is ticking at 60hz and the likelihood of
| a rollback is low, I think it could feel really good.
| LinAGKar wrote:
| Shouldn't this be Counter Strike 5?
| web3-is-a-scam wrote:
| Don't really play competitive FPS so I dont know if that smoke
| tech is novel or not, but it sure does look cool as hell.
| Sponge5 wrote:
| I've been hearing about Source 2 port of CSGO since 2015. Now I
| can't believe it actually happened. When I quit playing a few
| years ago I was at over 5000h played. I might add a couple
| hundred for old times sake
| tiffanyh wrote:
| To put 5,000 hours into perspective.
|
| There's only 2,000 hours in an entire year, if you work a
| typical 9-5 job, 5-days per week.
|
| This would be like play CS as a full-time job for 2.5 years
| straight.
| tstrimple wrote:
| Play times are often wildly inaccurate for me because I leave
| games up and running over long periods of time. Especially
| games like Dwarf Fortress or Rimworld. I could have them
| running for literally days at a time with me only hopping in
| between meetings or something to advance things a bit.
| izzytcp wrote:
| [flagged]
| nathias wrote:
| amazing, it's everything we dreamt it would be
| localplume wrote:
| [dead]
| gigatexal wrote:
| they're so close to just giving us what we really want and that's
| HL3, at this point I'd just take HL2 Episode 3 to round out the
| story of Episode 2.
| galkk wrote:
| Looking at announcement video that makes emphasis on smoke: have
| they ever seen smoke? Effect of a smoke grenade?
| lbotos wrote:
| Smokes in CS right now are one of the areas where people don't
| love the current implementation.
|
| A few patches ago if you had your settings right you would get
| a competitive advantage on smokes due to the way they were
| rendered.
|
| This new rendering feels more like Valorant and ultimately for
| CS players everyone in my playgroup is excited about the new
| smokes. They seem better to _play with_
| ezekg wrote:
| They stole their homework from Overwatch. So no. But yes.
|
| All kidding aside --
|
| This type of unrealistic smoke adds a new mechanic to the
| second-to-second gun play, where small mechanics like this can
| be used to turn the tide of a game by a player simply
| understanding the game, and how to take advantage of its
| mechanics, better than other players. Personally, I think
| "unrealistic" mechanics like this are what make competitive
| games, well, competitive.
| tstrimple wrote:
| I'm reaching an age where I don't have the twitch reflexes to
| compete on that alone, so I'm all for mechanics like this
| which give "game sense" players a boost.
| 91edec wrote:
| It is not meant to be a real life smoke grenade, its meant to
| be a gameplay mechanic. This new smoke grenade is great because
| it introduces counterplay and tactics.
| skilled wrote:
| Great work by the team. Let's see how it all feels when the game
| comes out. The new smokes will have a massive impact in
| competitive play, perhaps more so for the entertainment value
| which comes from all the live events throughout the year.
|
| Good for Richard Lewis who pretty much put his reputation on the
| line by calling out the fact that the release was coming. [0]
|
| [0]: https://richardlewis.substack.com/p/sources-yes-counter-
| stri...
| jareklupinski wrote:
| I'll playtest the new Reverse Gungame (read: Arms Race) for as
| long as you want me to if I can get enrolled :)
|
| Hope the issue with weapons not being assigned in the right order
| will be fixed...
| uxcolumbo wrote:
| Please do Day of Defeat next!
| asabla wrote:
| Pretty amazing how well the core concept of Counter-strike still
| holds up today. Really looking forward for the technical articles
| which will supersede this launch.
| [deleted]
| maxbaines wrote:
| Imagine Garry's Mod.
| ohgodplsno wrote:
| So, S&box which is already made on Source 2 and already made by
| Garry?
| c7DJTLrn wrote:
| As a Garry's Mod veteran, S&Box looks like something entirely
| different. Although Garry says it's a kind of sequel, it
| doesn't look like it is. It's more like a meta game engine.
| Or metaverse (god I hate that word.) I don't expect it to be
| a hit sadly.
| andrewmcwatters wrote:
| S&box is so confusing to me coming from a guy who through
| early GMod releases released something as soon as possible
| and released updates frequently.
|
| It's the complete opposite strategy. Do nothing for several
| years, and then hope people buy it when it comes out.
| n42 wrote:
| that's a fair point, but it's not exactly an audience of
| none. there's a fairly large play tester base. it's just
| invite only.
| c7DJTLrn wrote:
| You took the words right out of my mouth. I think Garry
| overcorrected and became a perfectionist concerned more
| with the code and engine than making something that
| people will want to play.
|
| Garry's Mod was fun because it was silly. It was far from
| perfect but we were happy putting thrusters and balloons
| on jeeps and flying around. He's lost sight of that it
| seems. He wants to build something perfect and I fear
| that's going to make it a sterile experience.
| n42 wrote:
| after GMod was launched on Steam with much better support
| for Lua scripting, what we call Garry's Mod grew into just
| one game mode (the sandbox gamemode). with S&Box, I think
| Garry's idea is that the GMod sequel is just one of the
| game modes. he/they are focusing on the developer platform
| first and foremost.
|
| I think there will be a GMod 2 gamemode that resembles what
| we remember (balloons, thrusters, etc)
| Ruq wrote:
| So...technically this is the 3rd entry in the series, right?
| _Game immediately disappears as Valve cannot count to 3_
| squeaky-clean wrote:
| I'm hoping it's a jab at Overwatch 2 because that was also just
| a major update that replaced the current game, but not
| different enough for many players to agree it warrants a "2",
| and CS2 is going to be a major update that replaces CSGO.
| antris wrote:
| Counter-Strike
|
| (Counter-Strike: Condition Zero)
|
| Counter-Strike: Source
|
| Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
|
| Counter-Strike 2
|
| It's all pretty confusing.
| ceedan wrote:
| Counter-Strike 1.6
|
| Condition Zero (1.7)
|
| Source (1.8)
|
| Global Offensive (1.9)
|
| Counter-Strike 2
| iooi wrote:
| It makes sense if you think of it like this:
|
| CS - 1.5
|
| CS (Steam) - 1.6
|
| CS: CZ - 1.7
|
| CS: Source - 1.8
|
| CS: GO - 1.9
|
| CS - 2.0
| Phelinofist wrote:
| HL3 when???
|
| Jokes aside, Valve does awesome work. Proton alone is a gift.
| Steam as a platform is best in class.
| blueridge wrote:
| Reminder: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time
| localplume wrote:
| [dead]
| seabass-labrax wrote:
| The 'reimagined' blood and gore effects shown on the game's
| official website are truly abhorrent :(
|
| My interest has been continually been drawn to team-based first-
| person shooter games (like Counter Strike) for their potential in
| terms of strategy, tactics and team coordination, but the gore is
| enough to put me off most titles immediately. I can see that some
| effects like blood stains can form part of the games' mechanics,
| indicating the direction from which a shot came, but what if one
| simply does not want to see these graphics? CS:GO doesn't even
| have an setting to disable them, and this is not unusual in the
| genre - I hope this sequel adds such an option.
| JasonZ2 wrote:
| > [...] what if one simply does not want to see these graphics?
| CS:GO doesn't even have an setting to disable them [...]
|
| Yes it does.
|
| 1. Open up your console by pressing the ` key
|
| 2. Type in the following command: `cl_blood 1`
|
| 3. Press enter
| swores wrote:
| I believe that doesn't actually work in CSGO (possibly it
| works in local servers against bots, but not in multiplayer
| where people actually want to play).
|
| Hence people making workarounds such as changing movement
| keys to both move and to execute the command that hides any
| already created blood (and bullets):
|
| https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=23635.
| ..
|
| or
|
| https://wewatch.gg/blog/how-to-remove-blood-in-cs-go-
| binds-f...
| vincheezel wrote:
| There are sites where you can purchase and download
| different world regions CD keys. I'd first remove CS:GO
| from your library completely (steam offers a way to do
| this) then activate the German version of the game. There
| is built in censoring for death/blood/corpse ragdolls
| afaik.
| pityJuke wrote:
| There used to be a low violence mode where players didn't die,
| they surrendered.
| Leader2light wrote:
| [dead]
| josefresco wrote:
| Maybe try Valorant which is a "cartooned modern take" on the CS
| model.
| gigaflop wrote:
| Valorant has an option to disable corpses, replacing them
| with little tokens on the ground that mark the spot of their
| demise. I think there's also an option to tone down blood
| effects, etc.
| areoform wrote:
| Valorant is far more sanitized in this regard and very
| "candy"-ish in its gameplay. I suspect the skins, female
| characters, and this candy-ness are why so many women I know
| play it. Personally, I think it's super cute!
| ManuelKiessling wrote:
| Apex Legends might be just what you are looking for --
| basically zero gore, extremely tactical gameplay with
| incredible team dynamics on good days.
| jacooper wrote:
| For anyone who doesn't like waiting for rounds to finish, try the
| Deatmatch mode! Its surprisingly fun! And more friendly to casual
| players.
| [deleted]
| singularity2001 wrote:
| https://steamcommunity.com/faqs/steam-help/view/5ED2-ED8E-81...
|
| How do I gain access to the Counter-Strike 2 Limited Test?
| Players are selected based on a number of factors deemed
| important by the Counter-Strike 2 development team, including
| (but not limited to) recent playtime on Valve official servers,
| trust factor, and Steam account standing.
|
| How do I know if I've been selected for the Counter-Strike 2
| Limited Test? If you are chosen to participate in the Counter-
| Strike 2 Limited Test you will receive a notification on the main
| menu of CS:GO.
|
| If you receive an invitation select "ENROLL" and begin your
| download. When the download is complete launch CS:GO and select
| the "Limited Test" option to play the Counter-Strike 2 Limited
| Test.
|
| How often are players added to the Counter-Strike 2 Limited Test?
| More players will be added to the Limited Test over time. Keep
| checking your CS:GO main menu to see if you have received an
| invite.
|
| How long will the Counter-Strike 2 Limited Test last? Counter-
| Strike 2 is expected to ship Summer 2023.
| hed wrote:
| This is unorthodox but will it have something like func_vehicle
| in the original Counter-Strike?
|
| Discovering "fun maps" servers gave me a second wind with that
| game long after I was no longer a twitchy teenager doing 5v5
| klarite wrote:
| Now for the love of all that is holy: revert or fix the weapon
| sounds! Half of the reason I love Apex Legends is the sound
| engineering and how it contributes to the experience and
| satisfaction of the overall gameplay.
| takoid wrote:
| You might be getting what you wish for:
|
| "Counter-Strike 2 sounds have been reworked to better reflect
| the physical environment, be more distinct, and express more
| game state. They have also been rebalanced for a more
| comfortable listening experience."
|
| https://counter-strike.net/cs2
| TechBro8615 wrote:
| It's funny because "audio bugs" are one of the most frequent
| complaints in the Apex community. But that's probably just
| because the players have gotten so used to depending on spatial
| audio when it works properly, that they get especially
| frustrated when it doesn't.
| TheCapn wrote:
| I've always found the complaints about audio weird. It almost
| seems like something that plagues consoles or low end
| hardware? I only say this because I'm a day 1 player of Apex
| and can maybe think of a half dozen that audio has failed me,
| but for known things like the super quiet Octane pad landings
| having no audio or prior to Ashe's ultimate being made
| louder. But if you go to the Apex subreddit, especially daily
| threads there are dozens of users complaining about it as
| though it is a pervasive issue that everyone should care
| about. Is it random, but I've been lucky? Is it poor
| hardware? Is it only on consoles?
| tym0 wrote:
| Doubly interesting knowing that both their engines are
| descendants of Source.
| isatty wrote:
| Valve is usually pretty good at sound, atleast it is in Dota 2.
| I can follow an entire game with only sound effects (I also did
| play the game for 10 years, which contributes).
| m3kw9 wrote:
| I hope they don't turn it into Modern warefare
| jacooper wrote:
| Hope it remains free and easy to run on light laptops
| lavela wrote:
| I second this. From my youth where I just couldn't afford a
| better pc, to now where my gaming pc has been off for half a
| year again because I can't be bothered to switch computers, the
| relative undemanding nature of Counter Strike has been part of
| the core identity of the game and reason to stick to it for me.
|
| (And of course it's just nice for as many people as possible to
| be able to play it)
| snickerbockers wrote:
| It's hard to believe CSGO is already over 10 years old. I
| remember back at launch people were complaining that this was
| just CSS aimed at console-plebs (it actually had ports for the
| xbox 360 and PS3) and a lot of diehard Counter-Strike players
| were swearing they'd stick to CSS. There were of complaints about
| headshots being too easy because the hitboxes were a little
| larger than in CSS.
|
| Valve did an amazing job listening to feedback and supporting
| their product; I know there are still a lot of people who stick
| to CSS and even CS 1.6 and I don't mean to de-legitimize their
| preferences, but today it does seem laughable to suggest that
| CSGO is just CSS for casuals.
| zppln wrote:
| As someone who has been holding ramp on Nuke for like 20 years
| I'm glad the upgrade looks dope.
| zzixp wrote:
| Valve made a game again!
|
| TF2 when :)
| web3-is-a-scam wrote:
| I've been replaying Portal 2 on the switch with my wife and
| Valve games really are something special. We need more of them.
| I want to play HL: Alex so badly but can't justify the price of
| the VR headset, personally.
| sophacles wrote:
| 15 years ago.
|
| TF3 when?
| thulle wrote:
| A few years after half-life 3?
| [deleted]
| Mizza wrote:
| I don't like the updated aesthetic, looks too cartoony.
| izzytcp wrote:
| oh you're one of those guys who wants to take us back to real
| life through computers?
| freshfunk wrote:
| Will people be able to build on the engine like the original? I
| used to love playing the Day of Defeat mod (ww2 themed) and could
| definitely see mass appeal for that on top of this new engine.
| Giorgi wrote:
| Why is their main point a smoke? Seriously, so many more could
| have been done.
| lbotos wrote:
| Because this is a big complaint from the current player base?
|
| Do you play? I do and these new smokes will absolutely shift
| gameplay and I think towards faster more dynamic games.
| weird-eye-issue wrote:
| It is good that they will be keeping the same skins in the new
| engine
|
| I made a bet that they would and my skins have increased about
| $40k in value over the last two years :P
| nonethewiser wrote:
| I don't play CS anymore so I don't appreciate this firsthand.
| Besides the smokes, it looks pretty much the same. Do the physics
| feel different or something?
|
| My understanding is that this is CSGO ported to source 2. I'm not
| clear on what the differences between the engines are, or if it
| was a rework of the original engine or completely new.
| 91edec wrote:
| The new tick system will mean physics will be the same for
| everyone in matchmaking and pro. Previously 64 and 128 tick had
| different physics for grenades. Now thats completely
| eliminated.
| jccalhoun wrote:
| As I understand it, the real advantage is that it will make it
| easier to make and maintain mods and skins and things than the
| aged CS:GO version. So they want to make it so that it
| basically plays exactly the same except prettier.
| emoII wrote:
| Well the new smoke mechanics will definitely be a game
| changer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y9MpNcAitQ
| Melatonic wrote:
| The thing that always killed me about CS:GO was the lack of
| mods and custom maps. They exist, sure - but not in the
| amount and creativity that was available for CS:Source or CS
| 1.5 and 1.6
|
| CS started as a mod so it only makes sense to have tons of
| cool custom maps
| jccalhoun wrote:
| Agreed. I played CS back in the beta days and I loved the
| different maps and things like the hostage and even the VIP
| scenarios. I miss that variety. dust2 is good but how about
| that one where you were small and you could turn the
| gravity down so you could jump all over? rattrap? something
| like that.
| bmitc wrote:
| I didn't realize Valve was still actively developing new games
| aside from Dota. What was the last big non-Dota game they did?
| Portal 2? CS:GO?
| finfrastrcuture wrote:
| Half Life: Alyx
| depr wrote:
| Artifact came after Dota
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| I'm dubious about the changes to smoke. The volumetric stuff, is
| cool, but being able to shoot holes in it and blow it away with
| grenades is a really huge game play change.
|
| I suppose they have to shake up the game a little, but the CS
| community is very stubborn about change. We'll have to see how
| they take it.
| orbital-decay wrote:
| I'm sure they had plenty of feedback on all new features from
| the selected pros. It doesn't necessarily mean the change is
| good, of course, but at least it can be reverted.
| johnchristopher wrote:
| > I suppose they have to shake up the game a little, but the CS
| community is very stubborn about change. We'll have to see how
| they take it.
|
| Just learn from CS:Source and pour more money into tournaments
| et voila.
| matsemann wrote:
| If you look at the video, the smoke slowly fills the void
| again.
| https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/apps/csgo/images/csgo...
|
| I think it could be a cool new meta.
| dsab wrote:
| Nothing about new weapons and shooting model, it will be the same
| arcade joke
| make3 wrote:
| it's a game not a shooting simulator? and one of the most
| successful at that. i'm not sure making it more realistic would
| achieve anything at all
| Overtonwindow wrote:
| This is amazing. This is truly a solid upgrade.
| Aeroi wrote:
| Am I the only one who thinks the added "realities" to Counter-
| Strike have continually made the game worse? I feel like the
| simplicity and hard corners of 1.6 made the game fantastic for
| 5v5 gameplay and more competitive. I enjoy the lack of layers and
| features.
| ceedan wrote:
| I prefer 1.6 as well. Nostalgia. I do love the simplicity,
| movement mechanics and simple map design.
| devnullbrain wrote:
| This update makes it more stylized though
| hyperion2010 wrote:
| The brighter colors feel like a return to a style much more
| like 1.6. Source and GO always felt too far along the realism
| slider for the visuals for some reason.
| JamesUtah07 wrote:
| I've been playing a lot of 1.6 at play-cs.com recently and
| enjoy it way more than csgo. I think cs source was maybe the
| sweet spot but I agree that the maps now are too busy and
| distracting and take away from the gameplay.
| mikkelam wrote:
| CSGO has just had the most concurrent player count. The game is
| by no means dying or unpopular. I think the game is in a great
| state and valve seems to be delivering a lot of what people
| have asked for. Im intrigued by the new smokes.
| yamazakiwi wrote:
| This was my first thought when I read about lighting appearing
| on smokes. I understand they want to upgrade the look but I'm
| worried that too much will take away from the stripped down
| feel that makes CS so popular.
| andrewmcwatters wrote:
| Sub-tick updates sound to me like they're still using a tick rate
| system, but specific CBasePlayer mechanisms will now undergo
| interpolation using UserCmd timestamps alongside their rewind
| buffer to understand specifically where you were during gameplay
| as opposed to looking backwards in the rewind buffer and not
| making interpolated calculations based on timestep.
|
| There is still an upperbound where additional granular game
| states don't occur and that upperbound is based on framerate,
| afaiu.
|
| We use a similar system in Planimeter Game Engine 2D.[1]
|
| Planimeter engineers are former Source Engine developers.
|
| [1]: https://github.com/Planimeter/game-
| engine-2d/wiki/Tick_rate_...
| squeaky-clean wrote:
| Couldn't you separate input from framerate and interpolate
| based on the input timing? I do this in a reaction-based arcade
| game I'm working on in Unity with their newer input system.
| e.g. If they input happens 8ms before the current frame, a
| projectile is "fast-forwarded" by the equivalent of 8ms, and
| then is in sync with the tickrate. The bigger issue I've run
| into is since mobile is my primary target, I've found that
| phones don't report touch inputs more frequently than their
| screen refresh rate. Works perfectly fine in the desktop build
| though with 60fps and a mouse with a 8k polling rate though.
| andrewmcwatters wrote:
| We write a general purpose game engine, but some of the
| predefined classes do have integrations exactly like this.
| What you're describing is similar to what we do for predicted
| projectiles, yes.
|
| We reused the concept from Team Fortress 2, which is when
| Valve first implemented the concept, I believe. But the idea
| is as old as when QuakeWorld first came on the scene. I think
| I remember Carmack specifically talking about how projectiles
| wouldn't be predicted in his .plan files, but the overall
| feel would be much better.
| gabereiser wrote:
| This is correct. QuakeWorld pushed the limits of real-time
| networking projectile detection by keeping a small history
| buffer of interpolated data for the server to perform
| lookups and hit checks. It was never perfect but it was
| good enough for fast paced QW games.
|
| https://icculus.org/~marco/quakec/csqc/prediction.html
|
| https://fabiensanglard.net/quakeSource/quakeSourcePredictio
| n...
| DavidVoid wrote:
| Overwatch also has sub-frame/tick aiming that's based on your
| mouse's polling rate [1].
|
| [1] https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/new-
| feature-%E...
| tines wrote:
| I love the promise of Planimeter but it's kinda intimidating to
| get started with. Are there any example games with source that
| I can tinker with?
| andrewmcwatters wrote:
| We were doing some experimentation with a future Planimeter
| Game Engine 3D product, but will be moving back to Game
| Engine 2D development this upcoming quarter, with a new
| website planned, a getting started tutorial path, and sample
| game code included from internal projects. The current
| version includes example code in the game folder.
|
| I am hoping that a getting started path will encourage new
| users to help one understand core workflows we've designed
| for developers, starting with creating entities in a test
| map, and then updating those levels, and finally, building
| your own fully-custom features which tie into premade
| systems.
| tines wrote:
| I'm really looking forward to this. The fact is that
| there's no game engine (that I could find after hours of
| searching) that offers out-of-the-box multiplayer for
| skilled programmers who just want to make a game, and if
| Planimeter can deliver that _and_ have good documentation
| and a clear ramp-up path, it would appeal to a huge
| audience.
| andrewmcwatters wrote:
| Thanks, that's been our #1 complaint about large
| mainstream engines like Unreal, Unity, and Godot. None of
| them have working out-of-the-box multiplayer (Unreal is
| the closest, but by default it rubberbands worse than
| Goldsrc!), and we find it super weird.
|
| Otherwise, we wouldn't have written our own engine.
| sosodev wrote:
| Are you guys going to separate the networking code from
| the engine? I would love a sane networking framework to
| use with Unity/Unreal. I've been writing my own source-
| esque networking to work with Unity but it's far from
| perfect. I would love a solid open source implementation
| here.
| andrewmcwatters wrote:
| I've been wanting to do this for years. It's still
| sitting in my IDEAS.md[1] file. But it does require some
| abstractions that sit above reliable UDP or other
| alternative transports.
|
| You need an idea of entities or at least some abstraction
| for a rewind buffer so that you can make calls to some
| sort of reconcile or predict function.
|
| I don't have an idea of what that looks like in my head.
| I'd have to think about it. I know it can be done.
|
| [1]: https://github.com/andrewmcwatters/IDEAS.md
| smrtinsert wrote:
| The visual improvements definitely make me curious about logging
| in again as an old guy with glasses now
| kuntau wrote:
| It's CS2 not CSGO2?
| simlevesque wrote:
| Man this has been in the talks since at least 2015. Dota got
| Source 2 in 2016...
| richsu-ca wrote:
| looking at the before/after of the scenes, looks like it went
| from action movie to a tourist brochure
| qwery wrote:
| There is only one feature I would need to see changed to get me
| into Counter-Strike again. Remove the loot boxes. At least make
| the game itself not include a slot-machine. Ideally, do
| _something_ about the third-party gambling websites.
|
| The page says
|
| > Bring your entire CS:GO inventory with you to Counter-Strike 2
|
| So, that's not ruling it out, right? (Yes, I am aware that this
| is essentially asking for the money tap to be turned off)
| ascar wrote:
| I don't really understand what's your problem with that? It has
| close to zero impact on actual gameplay.
|
| Considering it's how this game makes money and it's very
| effective at that, I highly doubt your wish is becoming a
| reality.
|
| I actually like how you can trade all the skins with other
| players, so if you don't enjoy gambling but want the skins
| there is a really convenient option.
| wiseowise wrote:
| Not OP, but I'd really like to have "No skins" switch.
|
| Having all sorts of rainbow, golden skins ruins immersion for
| me.
| bwat48 wrote:
| they'll never do this because one of the main drive to buy
| cosmetics in multiplayer games is to show off to others
| capableweb wrote:
| As long as the loot boxes don't impact actual game play, I
| personally don't mind. I don't care for my weapons to have a
| certain skin, so loot boxes doesn't impact me at all. Although
| without them, Valve would probably have to start charging for
| the game again, and that feels unlikely. Plus they probably
| earn more money on CS now than they ever did before so yeah,
| unlikely.
| Hikikomori wrote:
| Hopefully EU will make them illegal, its basically gambling
| for kids.
| throwawaymobule wrote:
| Even of it does get legislated as a form of gambling, I can
| see it continuing in CS behind some sort of age gate. I
| think it's more of a per-country thing.
|
| Real gambling is very legal in many EU countries.
| ksec wrote:
| >Counter-Strike: Global Offensive (CS:GO) is a 2012 multiplayer
| tactical first-person shooter developed by Valve
|
| So that is a free upgrade after _11_ years. How are they suppose
| to make money?
|
| Edit: Thank you for all the replies. No idea CS GO have loot box
| and cosmetics IAP. My impression of CS is still stuck in the
| 1999/2000 era.
|
| It is also amazing how long they kept the game running online. I
| guess since it is not a RPG there is very little things to store.
| Keeping running cost low.
|
| Purely from a Graphics POV Source is definitely showing its age.
| Not that it matters as much for CS players.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| You sweet summer child. CSGO is INSANELY profitable. Valve
| makes free money on every single cosmetic purchase, and takes a
| cut of EVER COSMETIC 2ND HAND MARKET SALE OR TRADE.
| skeaker wrote:
| Specifically 2nd hand sales that take place on their
| marketplace, which is Valve's own cash store. Players can
| still do items-for-items trades for free and that powers a
| lot of third party markets where there is no Valve cut.
| jimbob45 wrote:
| _How are they suppose to make money?_
|
| Whales bring in far more money than upgrade fees.
| kbar13 wrote:
| it's a free to play game. they literally print money on
| cosmetic items.
| skyyler wrote:
| I would be willing to bet that a single day of lootbox profits
| would be more than an entire year of game sales.
| broknbottle wrote:
| Really cool to see Valve finnaly announce CS 2 but it's somewhat
| sad knowing this will be the last CS..
| jjcon wrote:
| Did they say that somewhere or are you just thinking that will
| be the case since valve isn't doing tons of releases these
| days?
| varun_chopra wrote:
| OP is referring to a common joke that Valve doesn't count
| over 2.
|
| Half Life 2
|
| Team Fortress 2
|
| ...
| jjcon wrote:
| Woosh - went right over my head. Haha okay yep I'm tracking
| [deleted]
| palmtree3000 wrote:
| Don't forget CS2: Episode 1!
| baxuz wrote:
| I gave up on FPS games that use spray patterns.
|
| Makes no sense to aim at your feet to shoot an opponent after
| memorizing the spray pattern, or missing an opponent after
| shooting at them point blank for 3 seconds.
|
| Reminds me of Morrowind:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNXYrAkUntU
| lbotos wrote:
| you won't miss point blank unless you are moving :D
|
| source: my CS movement sucks
| akhosravian wrote:
| It's certainly unintuitive, but surely it isn't necessary for
| video game mechanics to map directly onto real world actions to
| be interesting.
| potatoman22 wrote:
| The way I see it, the other two options are to have random
| spray patterns or have every shot be perfectly accurate. Both
| of those seem worse than current spray patterns.
| Eji1700 wrote:
| Really it's a style thing. Arena shooters like Unreal have
| plenty of perfectly accurate weapons, but they have totally
| different mechanics to support that.
|
| Something like CS where the TTK is basically instant
| certainly can't have that, but at the same time I don't think
| it'd be "patterns" if it was done today. Changing something
| that fundamental at this point though would probably lose you
| the scene, as it's just "part of the game" at this point, and
| if you don't like it there's plenty of other options.
| vkou wrote:
| Apex has relatively low TTK, and uses spray patterns,
| because it's trying to be a competitive, modern, high-
| skill-ceiling shooter, where it's possible to waste a year
| of your life on memorizing and compensating for them.
| rejectfinite wrote:
| Because hitscan everything makes it too easy
| opan wrote:
| Why not tap or burst instead of spraying then? "click heads",
| as they say.
| Night_Thastus wrote:
| The reason is because they want to remove randomness from the
| game, so player skill is the deciding factor in winning a
| fight. It's actually the exact opposite design from Morrowind,
| where it was inspired by the randomness of tabletop RPGs.
|
| So if the shots aren't randomly distributed in a cone, and
| aren't perfectly accurate, and aren't a fixed spray
| pattern...what exactly is left?
| MagicMoonlight wrote:
| Make the gun move... but follow the gun with the reticle. So
| you still need to adjust for recoil but the bullets actually
| go where you are aiming
| Night_Thastus wrote:
| Games have tried that before, it's extremely jarring to
| have your cursor/camera shake around without your input,
| and depending on how it's done it makes visibility suck.
| gadders wrote:
| I wish some of these latest AI advances went into giving us
| better in-game bots so I can have fun playing on my own rather
| than be sniped by an expert player from half the game away who
| thought he would play on the newbie server for (his own) fun.
| dybber wrote:
| The CSGO ranking system is not that bad, most of the time you
| play with others on your skill level
| atom-morgan wrote:
| Yeah the issue is how fucking toxic the CS community is. I'm
| usually pretty numb to people talking shit but my god, I
| always remember why I stopped playing CS every time I
| reinstall to play it again.
| cyberlurker wrote:
| While the community is generally garbage, Valorant and LoL
| have even worse chats, text or voice. I get chill teammates
| more often in CS than elsewhere.
| pramsky wrote:
| It has been toxic since I started playing cs way back in
| 2000.
| Jolter wrote:
| Last I played was in 2018 I think. I don't remember many
| problems, even on the Silver ranks I played. Maybe every
| third game or so, some griefer or abusive player would get
| voted off the team, which was fairly frustrating but not
| always catastrophic to the game.
| doodlesdev wrote:
| Every third game one player would get voted off the team
| in a 5v5 game, and you don't remember many problems?
| That's a serious issue, it absolutely isn't normal.
| cyberlurker wrote:
| They updated the game so that you don't get a bot
| anymore. This greatly decreased the amount of vote
| kicking.
| bakugo wrote:
| Sounds like singleplayer games would be more your speed.
| the_af wrote:
| Speaking for myself: yes. The only multiplayer FPS I ever
| truly enjoyed was L4D, and only because it's cooperative (I
| did enjoy Versus mode, but coop is where it shined for me).
|
| The problem is that many military shooters don't (or didn't)
| have singleplayer, or what they did have was a simple demo
| for the MP mode. That sucks. I enjoyed the first iterations
| of the CoD and Modern Warfare titles because they were all
| about the singleplayer campaign, full of plot twists. I got
| tired eventually and no longer play any CoD or MW games, but
| that's a different issue.
|
| If you had very specific periods of time you were interested
| in, it was even worse. There was a time when there was
| absolutely no singleplayer 'Nam FPS, only Battlefield:
| Vietnam, which a- sucked, and b- was multiplayer.
| gadders wrote:
| Mostly? I like the Assassin's Creed games, Witcher 3, Far Cry
| etc. I'd probably play more multi-player games if I lasted
| more than 30s and didn't have to sit out the rest of the
| round.
|
| (Yeah, yeah "git gud" etc)
| thomasahle wrote:
| Could this also be achieved with a better rating system that
| automatically matches you with players of your own level?
| gadders wrote:
| That's game-able though, no? I know people can on CoD.
| bee_rider wrote:
| We're a more than a decade into the arms race of "video
| game matchmaking is game-able" and "let's try to counteract
| attempts to game the ranking system," I wonder who is
| winning at the moment.
| vkou wrote:
| That's not a difficult problem to solve.
|
| The difficult problem to solve is to find the right space
| between "Matchmaking results in the most skilled players
| being at the top of the ladder" and "Matchmaking results
| in _fun_ matches. "
|
| The casual community for any game is much larger than the
| top-0.1% community, and cares a lot more about the latter
| than the former.
| Ekaros wrote:
| And by my understanding at least some time back the
| top-0.1% community is anyways outside the ladder system.
| On third-party services. So CSGO kinda should aim for the
| later.
| lbotos wrote:
| CS does match making now. They had a few problems:
|
| 1. Small pool of active players so queue times could be long
|
| 2. They had a "gulf" where you got de-ranked down into lower
| tiers and it was a lot of good players in the bottom tiers
| that couldn't fight their way out to higher tiers with
| possibly equal players.
|
| They fixed 2 with a re-calibrating a few months ago. They
| have 18 ranks now. I jumped up 5ish with the re-calibrate.
| rejectfinite wrote:
| 1. Small pool of active players so queue times could be
| long
|
| CS:GO usually has 900k players online at any time? Yes not
| all playing MM but still...
| Jhsto wrote:
| Have you played some of the community FFA servers? If you
| choose hard bots, on most servers, the bots have inhuman
| reaction and accuracy.
|
| But I guess your point is fair -- it would be much nicer to see
| bots that cooperate as well as they aim. Would allow much more
| realistic takeover scenarios to be played.
| ncallaway wrote:
| Yea, I think your second paragraph captures it. "Better"
| doesn't mean mechanically better at aiming. It means more
| realistic, and player-like behavior. Maybe also more more
| behavioral variance, so they don't feel like a team of 5
| copies of the same person.
| bee_rider wrote:
| I remember superhuman bots in Perfect Dark. It was kind of
| fun to play against them sometimes (by setting traps and
| cheesing map geometries mostly) but it was not very much like
| playing multiplayer at all.
| bionade24 wrote:
| The hardest bot level on CS:GO already is more challenging than
| low- or mid-level players. To be fair, the level below the
| hardest is way easier. All non-wingman standard maps don't
| allow sniping over much of the map. Are you talking about a
| different game?
| ceejayoz wrote:
| You're being too literal.
|
| Offline play with bots lets you control the difficulty.
| Online play largely does not. Some people just wanna be John
| Wick for fun.
| akhosravian wrote:
| I suspect the concern OP was referring to was not that bots
| aren't challenging, but to the sense they play differently
| than players do. There is overlap in what it means to be good
| vs players and bots, but there are also elements unique to
| one or the other.
| squeaky-clean wrote:
| Yeah this is the biggest complaint with bots. It's like a
| Chess AI. Sure the best Chess AI can absolutely dominate
| any human player, but they do it in an inhuman and un-fun
| way.
|
| Like sure a Counter Strike bot can aim better and faster
| than me. But their positioning and overall strategic
| gameplay sucks.
| josefresco wrote:
| I play offline with bots exclusively. I'm older, have been
| playing CS since the beta days and no longer have the patience
| to play with real people and all their inherent aggravations.
| aceazzameen wrote:
| I might start playing FPS games again. I'm too old to compete
| with younger people with more time than me.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> I'm too old to compete with younger people with more time
| than me._
|
| Excuse when young: No wonder I suck, I'm competing with
| grownups with better computers than mine.
|
| Excuse when adult: No wonder I suck, I'm competing with
| youngsters with more free time than me.
| a4isms wrote:
| Sorry, are we talking about videogaming? Or a career as a
| programmer?
| nathants wrote:
| everything is the same.
| time0ut wrote:
| I never thought I would be excited to play CS again, but here we
| are...
| danwee wrote:
| Is it just me or as the quality of the game improves, it's more
| difficult to spot the enemy? In CS 1.6, if you have a
| cop/terrorist standing against any wall, you definitely will
| notice it (mainly because walls/buildings/whatever didn't have
| that much quality regarding details). But in the video of CS 2,
| since the quality is so great (both for cops/terrorists and for
| the rest of the maps), somehow I think it's kinda difficult to
| distinguish others. Like in real life I guess?
| aeternum wrote:
| I think you're right and it's generally a problem for gameplay.
| Real life scenarios often involve a lot of hiding and waiting.
| If a game becomes too realistic it starts to simulate that
| which leads to a boring game.
| mpsprd wrote:
| If you check the video on maps they made everything brighter
| and made aesthetic changes to improve acquisition, so it was
| covered.
| mrkeen wrote:
| I had this experience when I played COD 4 (2007). It definitely
| felt different than the usual scanning for enemy player models.
| hgs3 wrote:
| The situation was even worse when Valve added custom skins
| players could buy. Some of those skins blended in with their
| background a little too well. Their initial "solution" was to
| add more lights to the maps to brighten them up, but that
| approach is obviously not great so they added a system to boost
| player model contrast dynamically against the environment [1].
|
| [1] https://imgur.com/gallery/P37nKBs#o3QNSgs
| esskay wrote:
| It's always somewhat baffled me that Valve didn't do more with
| the CS brand, and instead allowed Call of Duty and (to a lesser
| extent) Battlefield to be the go-to FPS games.
| dgellow wrote:
| Valorant, CS:GO, Apex are the most streamed FPS according to
| https://gamesight.io/leaderboards/fps-games.
|
| The counter strike player base is really massive.
| capableweb wrote:
| Is CoD and BF really more popular than CS? Hard to find numbers
| for CoD and BF, but CSGO currently have 1,000,000 online
| players right now, ~0.5 million viewers on Twitch. CoD Warzone
| + CoD MW 2 has ~50k viewers on Twitch, but unable to find
| number of online players, but I cannot imagine it being 1
| million if there is only 50k viewers on Twitch.
| rejectfinite wrote:
| If you play on consoles sure...
| glanzwulf wrote:
| Haven't been this excited about CS in a while. I'm coming back
| baby!
| stingraycharles wrote:
| I have literally lost 1.5 years of college around 2001 - 2007
| due to Counterstrike. We had a clan with several people in my
| dorm, and it was awesome. It was also around that time that I
| felt like I had a productive day if I did laundry, and I had to
| really force myself to remove it from my computer as I realised
| it was simply too addictive for me to start a few quick matches
| all day long.
|
| In hindsight, I don't really regret it, it was probably one of
| the last times in my life I could procrastinate like that and
| get away with it reasonably well.
| Melatonic wrote:
| It was also a much more pure game back then - there were no
| cosmetic items (besides free skins you installed yourself
| from people doing them for free - some of which were insanely
| high quality and others were just insanely ugly but also
| hilarious). There were no achievements. It was just skill and
| gameplay.
| ksec wrote:
| It is nice to hear these story, just to know I am not the
| only one with Gaming addition problem in Uni / College. And I
| think 3-4 years into the society I stopped all gaming
| completely. Working Life is exhausting.
| pizza wrote:
| Linux thinclient as my dormroom desktop: some of my best
| grades semesters
|
| Windows gaming machine: some of my flakiest semesters
| lintimes wrote:
| Incredible that shortly after many of us went through this,
| professional competitive gaming could later be a considered
| career.
| vecter wrote:
| Yeah but only 20-30 people in any region make it as a pro
| player. The odds are just about as bad as being an NBA
| player. You didn't miss out on anything.
| metaltyphoon wrote:
| Same! Heck yeah!!!
| KronisLV wrote:
| I catch myself wishing for something that would mix the game up a
| bit - say, new or different weapons, or maybe a system where you
| could assemble your own weapon skins from multiple materials or
| customize parts individually for different looks.
|
| Then again, playing it safe because it's a popular competitive
| game title is probably a good idea and the improvements sound
| really good! Seems like a great way to modernize the game without
| changing it too much, while bringing people's items and such
| forwards.
| xracy wrote:
| I think subtle changes are going to go a lot farther in this
| game. In particular, I'm imagining the smoke changes are going
| to be a bigger change than they seem...
| Eji1700 wrote:
| This exactly. CS has a ton of established theory built in.
| Some of these changes are kinda equivalent to "pawns can take
| in front of them" level of disruptive to the established
| understanding/meta.
| the_af wrote:
| I'm fascinated about communities who play the same game for
| decades and don't want any changes to "the meta".
|
| Is CS truly so good that any change which forces someone to
| re-learn the ropes is unwelcome? Do they want to keep
| playing the same game for another decade?
| Ekaros wrote:
| I think in general the community can try games like
| Overwatch, Apex, Valorant, COD, BF etc. And be pretty
| certain that most of the features and game mechanics from
| those wouldn't really make CS a better game.
|
| I think they probably want to keep CS at least on core
| level same for more decades. It has been around this long
| so something must have been done right.
| the_af wrote:
| But at some point, playing the same videogame with the
| same meta starts to feel boring, right?
|
| I know the obvious answer is "well, chess hasn't changed
| (much) and people play it for their entire lives". And
| yes, I would eventually find chess boring too!
| squeaky-clean wrote:
| It's kind of like comfort food. CS has variants like
| gungame and deathmatch, you can have modded servers with
| alternate damage, fire rate, recoil, low gravity, or even
| mods that change it entirely and turn it into a zombie
| horror game or an RPG. And those are fun, but ultimately
| I want to return to the game I know and love.
|
| Chess is the obvious comparison, but also so is any major
| sport. There hasn't been anything significantly changed
| about Soccer, Basketball, Baseball, and so on, in a long
| time as well and most people don't have issues with that.
| Once you eliminate changing the game rules you're left
| with only trying to develop your own personal skills.
| matthavener wrote:
| Yep, even something as small as a magazine capacity change or
| price for the AWP has huge effects on team strategy
| lbotos wrote:
| Our awper ran out of bullets the other week forgetting the
| magazine change lol. Definitely changes the round dynamics
| as he can't hold the same and has to be more judicious.
|
| (CS dropped from 10 bullets to 5)
| smrtinsert wrote:
| And this is what CS devs understood over similar FPS of that
| era. Other game studios would always rewrite their game from
| scratch and create new balance mistakes and issues (looking
| at you tribes) while CS made incremental improvements where
| knowledge typically wasn't lost between generations of
| players and could be passed down.
| capableweb wrote:
| Absolutely! Seems like there is a counter-effect to smokes
| (throwing a HE grenade), one could imagine something similar
| will happen with other grenades too. For example, maybe
| flashbangs ends up being dampened by a smoke as well, or
| something like that.
| awill wrote:
| I'm very surprised they aren't prioritizing the Linux build
| during the test.
|
| I get most players are still on Windows, but Valve literally have
| a Linux console, and they've ported essentially all their games
| to Linux.
|
| If Valve don't even prioritize Linux, why would other devs?
| ho_schi wrote:
| My expectation was actually a Linux-First-Approach to push
| Linux and the Steamdeck.
|
| Delaying tests on Linux feels really bad because this means we
| will unnecessary bugs upon release.
| system16 wrote:
| I haven't followed CS for some time so I might be missing
| something key about this announcement... but to my eyes the
| graphics and effects look smooth, but strangely outdated. The
| smoke effects look like something that would be exciting a decade
| ago, and the characters move awkwardly and unnaturally.
| popcalc wrote:
| Those smoke effects are beautiful!
| polotics wrote:
| Is it just me, or does the added colour saturation on some of
| the before/after pics make CS2 look like Fortnite?
| skeaker wrote:
| That would hardly be a bad thing in my opinion, given that
| Fortnite looks fantastic
| haunter wrote:
| Nah Fortnite is much more vibrant especially since the new
| Unreal engine update https://youtu.be/O6GC8TZbJmI
|
| It's more colorful for sure but still looks "pale"
| tand22 wrote:
| The saturation and brightness looks overdone in my opinion.
| Too unrealistic and cartoonish.
| fleetfox wrote:
| It's an attempt to solve "player readability". It's common
| complaint in CS:GO. Many pros play with color vibrance
| cranked in driver or monitor settings.
| jccalhoun wrote:
| the new gui reminded me of Valorant.
| mckirk wrote:
| I'd say it's a lot closer to Valorant than to the max-
| saturation graphics of Fortnite. But I think they found a
| good balance, it still looks like you can take the world
| seriously imho.
| mckirk wrote:
| Amazing to finally see some work being put into CS, and just this
| smoke grenade sneak peek already makes me very curious to see how
| this will play in practice.
|
| It's clear at least that they aren't afraid of changing the meta
| in a rather substantial way -- which is of course dangerous on
| one hand, since I'm guessing CS is so popular precisely because
| of its timelessness, but also necessary on the other hand if we
| ever want to improve upon it.
| chrsig wrote:
| if starcraft/starcraft 2 is any indication of what might occur,
| they'll just be treated as two completely different games.
| toasteros wrote:
| There's a part of the website that states it'll be an upgrade
| to CSGO. I wonder if that means we're losing CSGO, or if
| there will be some sort of "legacy mode" that either retains
| CSGO as an option or simply shims its gameplay into CS2.
| pawelmurias wrote:
| Starcraft 2 and 1 are very different games not slight
| variations of the same shooter
| birdyrooster wrote:
| People still play 1.6 competitively so of course we will add
| one more flavor. Just like MTG players and new formats.
| barrysteve wrote:
| CS does change substantially between releases. The movement has
| gotten slower and less nimble since CS:Source and the AK/M4
| primary dominance is markedly reduced in CS:GO.
| sigmar wrote:
| I'm happy to see more game devs eschew realism for the benefit of
| gameplay. Does shooting a bullet clear a tunnel through smoke
| IRL? No. Does making it do that make for some cool gameplay? hell
| yes
| pipeline_peak wrote:
| Source is showing its age, just switch to Unreal already...
|
| It's not like Valve makes games anymore.
| tapoxi wrote:
| Valorant, CS:GO's closest competitor, is in Unreal and looks
| similar. These games are going for high framerates and running
| on the majority of PCs, even ones with integrated graphics.
| Switching engines wouldn't do them any favors, and it would
| severely cripple their modding tools.
| esskay wrote:
| Given unreal is owned by their biggest competitor theres little
| to no chance of that happeng. Valve arent really a video game
| developer anymore, they just tinker on the side for fun.
| capableweb wrote:
| Granted, last time Valve released a proper game was in 2020
| (Alyx), but to say they are not a developer anymore isn't
| super fair. They take their time, and their priorities
| probably are elsewhere, they still do develop games.
| Melatonic wrote:
| So....anybody work for Valve and want to get me in on this?
|
| I do not have a ton of CS:GO playtime unfortunately but I do have
| an assload of CS:Source along with probably even more playing CS
| 1.5 and 1.6 (started in the early beta days). Also worked briefly
| as a video game tester and now I do system infrastructure -
| definitely good at finding bugs and gameplay improvements :-)
| Melatonic wrote:
| So....anybody work for Valve and want to get me in on this?
|
| I do not have a ton of CS:GO playtime unfortunately but I do have
| an assload of CS:Source along with probably even more playing CS
| 1.5 and 1.6 (started in the early beta days). Also worked briefly
| as a video game tester and now I do system infrastructure -
| definitely good at finding bugs and gameplay improvements :-)
| CyborgCabbage wrote:
| https://steamcommunity.com/faqs/steam-help/view/5ED2-ED8E-81...
| TechBro8615 wrote:
| Will there be a battle royale mode, or have we finally moved past
| the trend of adding one to every new FPS game?
| martinsmit wrote:
| CS:GO already has this, it's called Danger Zone
| TheCaptain4815 wrote:
| How do we get early access?
| 6581 wrote:
| https://steamcommunity.com/faqs/steam-help/view/5ED2-ED8E-81...
| nonethewiser wrote:
| > As a result, regardless of tick rate, your moving and shooting
| will be equally responsive and your grenades will always land the
| same way.
|
| Is this a signal that they will reduce tick rate? Based off what
| they said, what would the reason be not to?
|
| I'm familiar with tick rate as a user but I'm not sure how it
| manifests in the code/hardware. Like, if it's some setting they
| can easily change or if it's the consequence of something else. I
| wonder if they can easily reduce it to lower costs or something.
| takoid wrote:
| Valve is getting rid of tick rate entirely. Here is a video
| which explains it briefly:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqhhFl5zgA0
| nonethewiser wrote:
| Interesting, I will watch that when I get a chance. Maybe it
| addresses some of these thoughts already.
|
| I wonder how much this is just reframing the concepts though.
| It kinda seems like they are just increasing tick rate
| tremendously because the type of system we call tick rate has
| changed.
|
| I mean, there has to be some interval at which the game is
| updated right? Wouldn't that be the tick rate?
| Thaxll wrote:
| There is no such thing as removing tick rate, the video is
| confusing, I think it's improvement with rollback and also
| gameplay improvements with how grenades work etc ...
| Laremere wrote:
| Definitely not. Games operate in a loop: gather input, run
| update (tick), and then render the frame.
|
| The problem with the above is when sub-frame timings matter.
| What they're doing is being smarter about how they're
| calculating things.
|
| Eg: A 'naive' approach to movement could be:
| forward_pressed() { moving_forward = true; }
| update_position() { if (moving_forward) {
| pos += time_since_last_update * player_speed; }
| }
|
| But an approach which would improve timings is:
| forward_pressed() { forward_pressed_at = time.now();
| moving_forward = true; } update_position() {
| if (moving_forward) { time_since_pressed =
| forward_pressed_at - time.now(); if
| (time_since_pressed < time_since_last_update) {
| pos += time_since_pressed * player_speed; } else {
| pos += time_since_last_update * player_speed; }
| } }
|
| Except things are more complicated as you need to consider
| exact position someone was when someone else pressed the
| shoot button, etc.
|
| To answer grandparent's question: They'll likely reducing
| tick rate to save server costs. However they can't lower too
| much without having noticeable effects for systems which
| don't account for sub-frame accuracy.
|
| Nits: Above is a simplification and theoretically you could
| do things differently, but as this is in Source Engine 2,
| they're definitely using ticks still.
| adamwk wrote:
| Aren't you describing frame rate? Tick rate is different;
| it's when the server synchronizes state across clients
| squeaky-clean wrote:
| Frame rate is often an interpolated and predicted view
| over a fixed tickrate.
| haunter wrote:
| Sounds more like rollback netcode to me. You can't just
| remove tick rate.
| bakugo wrote:
| The concept of "rollback netcode" is something that
| generally only applies to fighting games, shooters with
| dedicated servers use lag compensation instead which just
| means that, every time you shoot someone, the hit detection
| is done on the server but the server rolls back the
| player's position depending on your ping to make sure their
| position roughly matches what you saw when you shot. CSGO2
| is just improving this so the rolled back player positions
| can be interpolated between frames instead of only being
| able to roll back to wherever a player was on an exact
| tick, which is what it currently does.
| mckirk wrote:
| We'll have to see whether there even still _is_ a tick rate.
| Afaik you only need ticks if you need to simulate something in
| your world that needs iterative updates, such as objects
| following a complex motion that doesn't have closed-form
| movement equations. I can't think of anything like that in CS,
| so basically all the events can just happen at arbitrary times,
| and the server and clients will still know the world's state at
| any other point in time just from extrapolating from the start
| time. Take e.g. grenades. So far they were updated through
| iterations at either 64 or 128 ticks per second, with both
| having a slight divergence from an actual parabola (the 64 tick
| variant diverging more than the 128 one), since between the
| ticks the moment would only be interpolated. That meant that
| nades were behaving differently depending on tick rate. Now,
| the grenade just has a start time and start vector, and you can
| know exactly where it is at any point in time using the closed
| form movement equations for an object in parabolic flight.
| bakugo wrote:
| Not all source engine games play nice with variable tickrates
| but CSGO mostly does, that's why you can play on either 64 or
| 128. With this change to hit detection though, 128 tick will
| probably become redundant so 60-70 will probably become the
| standard across both casual and competitive play. I doubt they
| will reduce it under 60.
| m3kw9 wrote:
| The way smoke moves out of the bullets way is comical
| mberning wrote:
| This is exciting. Guess I need to build another windows PC.
| blueridge wrote:
| Me too!
| tapoxi wrote:
| Valve ships all their games on Linux and Mac, so you don't need
| to run Windows.
| GormHouj wrote:
| >Can I participate in the Counter-Strike 2 Limited Test on
| Linux or macOS? [1]
|
| No. The Counter-Strike 2 Limited Test is only available on
| Windows.
|
| I'm sure this will change with an official release though.
|
| [1] https://steamcommunity.com/faqs/steam-
| help/view/5ED2-ED8E-81...
| awill wrote:
| Wouldn't Proton let you run the Windows version?
| mberning wrote:
| Have you tried to play CS:GO on a Mac? I can tell you that it
| does not at all feel the same as a PC.
| bravetraveler wrote:
| If you wish to participate in CS2 testing however, you do
| need Windows
|
| I was hoping being a seasoned CS:GO player on Linux might
| bump me into a niche to get a ticket, but alas - Windows only
| for now
| [deleted]
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