[HN Gopher] The genie escapes: Stanford copies the ChatGPT AI fo...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The genie escapes: Stanford copies the ChatGPT AI for less than
       $600
        
       Author : Freddie111
       Score  : 170 points
       Date   : 2023-03-20 20:38 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (newatlas.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (newatlas.com)
        
       | braingenious wrote:
       | I have not found alpaca to be comparable to chatgpt, but it could
       | be because of bugs in the version I installed through dalai. I
       | might try reinstalling it because I suspect there might be some
       | sort of file corruption issue or whatever.
       | 
       | I gave it the prompt "cats aren't always fuzzy" and it wrote a
       | lengthy livejournal-esque rambling journal entry about a woman
       | and her husband having money issues. It was funny, but lightyears
       | away from chatgpt.
       | 
       | It does sometimes create some really funny hallucinations though,
       | like inventing prefectures in Japan that don't exist etc.
        
         | DustinBrett wrote:
         | I also got that text about the married couple and their money
         | issues. Alpaca didn't impress me at all so far.
        
           | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
           | Alpaca wasn't great. The 13b and 30b models are much better,
           | but just for sentence completion.
           | 
           | Personally, I think that the RLHF does make a big difference
           | but maybe it's a bug in the quantization code as suggested up
           | thread.
        
             | braingenious wrote:
             | I'm also a bit confused by the quantization thing. Why
             | exactly is everybody running the same program on the same
             | file? Why not just include the quantized weights?
             | 
             | It seems like if somebody figured out the "correct" way to
             | quantize the 7b weights it would make way more sense to
             | just torrent the output rather than distribute a fixed
             | program.
        
               | homarp wrote:
               | quantization takes lots of RAM:
               | 
               | https://github.com/qwopqwop200/GPTQ-for-
               | LLaMa/blob/main/READ... says llama-13B takes 42GB and 33B
               | takes more than 64GB...
        
               | sebzim4500 wrote:
               | There is no reason not to do that, except
               | 
               | i) Distributing large files through torrents is slightly
               | annoying if you don't already happen to have a seedbox
               | 
               | ii) People are still messing around with quantization
               | settings, they might think that they are a few days away
               | from a much better version
               | 
               | iii) No one wants to be sued by Meta. I think the risk is
               | pretty small but not zero.
        
       | doctoboggan wrote:
       | I've used both the 7B and 13B instruction tuned llama weights
       | (quantized using the llama.cpp scripts). Either I am doing
       | something wrong, or these two models are no-where near the level
       | of ChatGPT. Many times they return something totally irrelevant
       | to my question, stop responding, use a different language, or
       | otherwise return the wrong answer. ChatGPT does none of this.
       | (other than the wrong answer due to hallucinating sometimes...)
       | 
       | Reading through the README and issues on the llama.cpp project,
       | there is some speculation that there is a bug in the
       | quantization, or possibly a bug in the inference (less likely I
       | think).
       | 
       | I hope this is true and once fixed the models can perform up to
       | or past the ChatGPT level. If its not true and these models are
       | performing correctly, then either the metrics used to compare it
       | to GPT is garbage and don't capture the real world uses, or the
       | instruction tuning done by the Stanford team is not up to par.
        
         | f_devd wrote:
         | LLama hasn't been fine-tuned with RLHF, so it requires
         | additional prompting, check out the open-assistant[0] project
         | for an open-source ChatGPT equivalent (WIP).
         | 
         | [0]: https://github.com/LAION-AI/Open-Assistant
        
           | simonw wrote:
           | This is why Alpaca is a big deal: it shows what LLaMA can do
           | after it's been fine-tuned to follow instructions like
           | ChatGPT has.
        
             | f_devd wrote:
             | Alpaca uses Self-Instruct[0] which is better than just the
             | pre-training but I wouldn't expect it to be at the level of
             | ChatGPT (RLHF) in terms of human-friendly prompting.
             | OpenAssistant should make it close to ChatGPT (from GPT-3.5
             | version) if the LLaMA is as powerful as claimed.
             | 
             | [0]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2212.10560
        
           | satvikpendem wrote:
           | Use it here:
           | https://huggingface.co/spaces/olivierdehaene/chat-llm-
           | stream...
        
       | earthboundkid wrote:
       | I bet you could "exfiltrate" an LLM relatively cheaply by using
       | LLM A to generate training data for LLM B.
        
         | oezi wrote:
         | No way. The cost for generating the tokens is way too high.
        
       | EGreg wrote:
       | I warned about this for years. Finally an article gets it right.
       | 
       | Everyone will soon have the equivalent of online nuclear weapons:
       | bot swarms that infiltrate every forum, including this one.
        
         | tantalor wrote:
         | Spam has existed on the internet for a long time.
        
           | EGreg wrote:
           | This is different. It can act just like humans do for most
           | people who skim comments won't be able to tell the
           | difference.
           | 
           | Note this was in 2020: https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/
           | 10/08/1009845/a-gpt-3-...
           | 
           | And here's 4chan bot:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efPrtcLdcdM
           | 
           | I can tell you that HN is probably already being infiltrated
           | as well.
           | 
           | SPAM can't gang up on you in a forum and downvote you and
           | turn your friends against you and destroy your reputation
           | within 1 hour online. But soon, it will. The web as we know
           | it is soon going to be over.
        
       | twblalock wrote:
       | This is why it's not possible to slow down or "stop" AI: once the
       | problems are solved the solutions turn out to be trivial to
       | replicate. All it takes is compute.
        
         | jeron wrote:
         | you say all it takes compute like that is trivial - chatGPT
         | would have a hard time without Microsoft's support via Azure
        
           | twblalock wrote:
           | There are lots of places to get compute, including Chinese
           | cloud providers...
           | 
           | The genie really is out of the bottle now.
           | 
           | This is a lot like pharmaceuticals. The initial investment in
           | a new medication is enormous. The price of each pill is
           | trivial, to the extent that every drugstore chain is able to
           | supply a generic in-house brand.
        
           | crooked-v wrote:
           | While that's true, it's basically inevitable now that at some
           | point personal hardware will be powerful enough for
           | enthusiasts to run home bots comparable to GPT-3, and even
           | that by itself would drastically change a lot things.
        
             | bmacho wrote:
             | Governments can ban powerful devices, as they can ban guns,
             | bombs, and such.
        
               | AnimalMuppet wrote:
               | Only at a price. If you ban devices powerful enough to
               | run ChatGPT, you ban a big chunk of what powers your
               | economy.
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | Running isn't necessarily the issue. The moat is creating a
             | high-quality model like OpenAI has, which (and here the
             | article is mistaken) doesn't seem to be easily
             | reproducible.
        
               | crooked-v wrote:
               | While that's true, it also seems entirely predictable at
               | this point how to do that. It takes a lot of effort and
               | expensive hardware, but there isn't really a "secret
               | sauce" beyond expertise in the field.
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | Yes, but it takes time (took OpenAI years) and
               | significant effort. Who with enough expertise will do
               | this and not keep the results closed in order to monetize
               | them? It doesn't seem like something an open source
               | project could accomplish quickly enough to not keep
               | lagging substantially behind the commercial solutions.
        
               | twblalock wrote:
               | That's going to get easier too. Stanford can already get
               | this far for $600, so soon after the major GPT-based chat
               | AIs were released. Imagine how much better it will get
               | with just a little bit more time.
        
               | drowsspa wrote:
               | Sounds like IBM trusting no one would copy their BIOS
               | code.
        
           | zamnos wrote:
           | Maybe. Certainly in the past, before the world was aware LLMs
           | on the level of ChatGPT were possible with today's
           | technology. OpenAI's chosen not to release any real details
           | about GPT-4, so we don't actually know what it would take to
           | train a model of equivalent quality, especially considering
           | training isn't a one-shot. Multiple training runs easily add
           | up training costs. So training for a 12-figure parameter size
           | model(s) (175B) is assumed to be very expensive. But there
           | has been great progress made for optimized models which are
           | smaller by a two orders of magnitude - 7B for a debatable
           | drop in quality (7B alpaca is in no-way competitive with
           | ChatGPT, but it's still very much not a markov chain from
           | during the AI winter). So one possibility is that OpenAI
           | chose not to release salient GPT-4 details is due to it being
           | much smaller than GPT-3's 175B model size and they're hiding
           | the details because of how much that cuts down on training
           | costs. (Which I should note is unsubstantiated conjecture but
           | not outside the realm of possibility.)
           | 
           | The other aspect is that fine-tuning an existing model is way
           | cheaper than creating a competing model from scratch, so a
           | company could offer CompetitorGPT/CompetitorCoPilot
           | competitive with GPT-3.5, and offer fine-tuning of that model
           | trained on the source code repository of the purchaser
           | company's codebase, possibly on-prem or at least inside their
           | AWS VPC/Azure/GCP equivalent.
           | 
           | The other thing to note is that OpenAI is hosting ChatGPT as
           | a public resource available to anyone with an account, akin
           | to Google being open to the public from day one (although
           | that is without an account. Maybe Gmail is a better
           | comparison). I can't say for certain, only OpenAI would know
           | for sure, but I'm willing to bet that inference for ChatGPT
           | is the vast majority of their costs (which is all but
           | trivial). Any private internal-only instance of OpenChatGPT
           | (using the unlicensed leaked LLaMA model or a legal copy or
           | someone else's) could be paying (relatively) minuscule
           | training costs, and way lower inference costs if it's
           | internal-use only. Whether that cost can be borne by a small
           | SaaS company's existing AWS budget is up in the air, which is
           | to say ultimately that you're right - ChatGPT would be
           | difficult without the support of Microsoft via a huge Azure
           | grant, it's less obvious that a self hosted internal-only
           | OpenChatGPT, not from OpenAI, would be possible by hobbyist
           | self-hosters with a prosumer GPU cluster (Say with last
           | generation K80's instead of business-priced A100's), or by a
           | company wanting to leverage LLMs for private use by that
           | company that wants to provide a Copilot like productivity
           | multiplier internal tool to their developers, without sending
           | private source code to OpenAI in lieu of a privacy agreement
           | with them.
        
             | sfriedr wrote:
             | > OpenAI's chosen not to release any real details about
             | GPT-4
             | 
             | Actually, they have release _some_ details about it, in
             | this 99-page technical report
             | https://arxiv.org/abs/2303.08774 (which is actually two
             | papers stitches together, once you read it; oddly enough
             | using different fonts).
             | 
             | But I'm not sure if this content qualifies as "real
             | details".
        
               | kmeisthax wrote:
               | The intro to that paper specifically says:
               | 
               | > Given both the competitive landscape and the safety
               | implications of large-scale models like GPT-4, this
               | report contains no further details about the architecture
               | (including model size), hardware, training compute,
               | dataset construction, training method, or similar. We are
               | committed to independent auditing of our technologies,
               | and shared some initial steps and ideas in this area in
               | the system card accompanying this release. We plan to
               | make further technical details available to additional
               | third parties who can advise us on how to weigh the
               | competitive and safety considerations above against the
               | scientific value of further transparency.
               | 
               | In other words, "Stable Diffusion wasn't supposed to
               | happen, so we're making all our methodology trade
               | secret[0], if you want to Do Science then agree to this
               | massive NDA and have enough skin in the game for us to
               | cut you."
               | 
               | [0] Presumably at some point OpenAI will have to 'relent'
               | to independent discovery by patenting AI architectures
               | and refusing to license them
        
             | generalizations wrote:
             | I've been using the Chat GPT-4 model, and openAI has been
             | putting warnings about max queries per N hours. Given the
             | degree to which they're limiting access (up until they
             | crashed today, they'd dropped to 25 queries / 3 hours), I
             | suspect GPT-4 is actually much, much larger, and they just
             | don't have the computational resources to support its use
             | at the same level as GPT-3.5 or GPT-3.5 Turbo.
        
               | zamnos wrote:
               | You could be right! I don't claim access to any private
               | OpenAI information so any theories by me are based on
               | what's known publicly, which isn't much for GPT-4. I do
               | want to call attention to the difference between training
               | runs and inference runs (post-training usage of the
               | model). If each training run costs mid six-figures,
               | CompetitorGPT is going to have to be well-funded and
               | likely sponsored by AWS/GCP (eg Deepmind) just to train
               | up the model, given that it's probably not a one-shot. If
               | it's much lower due to optimizations in training, on top
               | of only having to fine-tune the model on a company's
               | codebase instead of training the whole model from scratch
               | each time, then I could see a company selling the service
               | of creating CompetitorGPT or CompetitorCoPilot seems like
               | it could be a very worthwhile investment, by companies
               | that are willing to invest in such services for their
               | developers. (Eg companies that are willing to pay
               | Splunk's exorbitant costs vs one that would rather burn
               | time self-hosting a graphana setup. Not to impugn
               | graphana, but it's very much a home-grown, open source
               | self-hosted deployment. Managing a Splunk cluster is also
               | far from free, it's just that not all companies are
               | willing to bear the yearly licensing cost for it and
               | would prefer to self-host graphana solely for cost
               | reasons even if TCO including the opportunity cost makes
               | it more expensive in the long run.)
        
         | mLuby wrote:
         | Governments have experience limiting the spread of digital
         | content. For now at least, AI proliferation is not immune to
         | those same tactics.
        
           | twblalock wrote:
           | Governments are really bad at limiting the spread of digital
           | content.
        
             | ronsor wrote:
             | Literally only China somewhat succeeds, and that's because
             | everything is top-down controlled by the government.
        
       | superkuh wrote:
       | Hardly. I've played a lot with the 7,13, and 30B llamas as well
       | as the 7 and 13B alpacas fine tuned by Stanford. They do not have
       | emergent abilities like being able to generate rhymes or, say,
       | represent a movie plot as emoji. Even openai's old text-
       | davinci-003 (gpt3.5, but text completion, not the chat ones) far
       | outperforms them. That said, I have hopes for a 65B 3-bit
       | quantized alpaca-fine tuned. We'll see when someone spends the
       | money to do the (more costly) 65B training. The alpacas are also
       | much more likely to go off rails and start regurgitating their
       | fine-tuning inputs. Either that or openai is doing a _lot_ of
       | post processing on their end to hide the same problems in their
       | LLM.
       | 
       | For now my IRC bots run the alpaca 7B 4-bit. 13B was not a
       | significant improvement for twice the computational time. But
       | it's best to learn them now because as soon as openai gets sued
       | for the first time all the turing test passing older models
       | without the legal-butt-covering bolted on will be removed.
        
         | thomasahle wrote:
         | 3 bits? Is that for all weights in the network?
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | superkuh wrote:
           | As far as I know, yes. https://arxiv.org/abs/2210.17323
           | 
           | "Specifically, GPTQ can quantize GPT models with 175 billion
           | parameters in approximately four GPU hours, reducing the
           | bitwidth down to 3 or 4 bits per weight, with negligible
           | accuracy degradation relative to the uncompressed baseline."
           | 
           | This would be 175 billion 3 bit weights instead of 175
           | billion 16 (or 32!) bit weights. It massively reduces the
           | size of the model. It makes loading it in ram on consumer
           | computers feasible. The number of parameters stays the same.
        
             | rnosov wrote:
             | > https://arxiv.org/abs/2210.17323
             | 
             | I've read the paper and to be honest I'm not sure what to
             | make of it. Their headline benchmark is perplexity on
             | WikiText2 which would not be particularly relevant to most
             | users. If you look at the tables in the appendix A.4 with
             | some more relevant benchmarks you'll sometimes find that
             | straight RTN 4 bit quantisation beats both GPTQ and even
             | full 16 bit original! No explanation of it is given in the
             | paper.
        
               | sebzim4500 wrote:
               | Some of those benchmarks have a pretty small sample size
               | IIRC, might just be coincidence that the noise introduced
               | by RTN just happens to slightly improve them.
               | 
               | GPTQ beats RTN on almost every benchmark at almost every
               | size, though.
        
             | coeneedell wrote:
             | I wonder if reducing the bit depth of parameters like we
             | have been acts as a normalization feature in these huge
             | deep models.
        
             | rcme wrote:
             | The number of parameters stays the same, but the amount of
             | information encodable by those parameters is not the same.
        
           | DrJosiah wrote:
           | It might have been a typo, as the current llama.cpp /
           | alpaca.cpp included quantizers default to 4 bits.
        
         | UncleOxidant wrote:
         | > the alpaca 7B _4-bit_ [and presumably also 4bit for the 13B,
         | 30B and larger parameter sets]
         | 
         | This is the wild card here, though, isn't it? OpenAI's chatGPT
         | likely uses more than 4 bits for it's parameters. IIRC the
         | original LLaMA params were 16bit floats and they were
         | quantitized down to 4bit - considering that large amount of
         | compression, they sill do pretty OK, but not as good as
         | chatGPT. I wonder how the alpaca/LLaMA models would do with
         | 16bit floating point params (as they were originally trained)?
         | What if they would have gone with 8 bits for the params as a
         | compromise?
         | 
         | EDIT: Come to think of it, unless you're using vectorized ops
         | on a CPU, 4 bit and 8 bit math is going to run at the same
         | speed (for most popular CPUs), is it not? So why did they go
         | all the way down to 4 bits instead of stopping at 8 bits (other
         | than to make the param files 1/2 the size)?
        
         | throwaway1851 wrote:
         | Hm. I haven't tried the local installs yet. However, when the
         | Alpaca web demo was live, I did find it to be comparable
         | (though not quite as capable) to davinci-003. It answered
         | arbitrary factual questions about pop culture references, law,
         | medicine, and programming. It generated rhymes and poems. (I
         | didn't try asking for the emoji thing, so can't say anything
         | about that.) It performed natural language tasks such as
         | information extraction and summarization. And it did all of it
         | coherently.
        
         | ryoshu wrote:
         | So what you're saying is it's a matter of time?
        
         | genericacct wrote:
         | fwiw 7B is totaly useless for the subset of non english
         | languages i've used, 13B a bit less so, but nowhere near as
         | good as gpt.
         | 
         | GPT's performance in non-trivial translation tasks is
         | unbelievable. all those articles mentioning jobs that are going
         | to be replaced fail to mention translators are probably going
         | to be the first.
        
         | satvikpendem wrote:
         | You might need to fix your parameters. From the text-
         | generation-gui guide:
         | 
         | > _For a more creative chat, use: temp 0.72, rep pen 1.1, top_k
         | 0, and top_p 0.73_
         | 
         | > _For a more precise chat, use temp 0.7, repetition_penalty
         | 1.1764705882352942 (1 /0.85), top_k 40, and top_p 0.1_
         | 
         | https://old.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/11o6o3f/how_to_...
         | 
         | https://old.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/11vsvro/in_cas...
         | 
         | https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1632569215348531201
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | That being said, I found the OpenAssistant model much better:
         | https://huggingface.co/spaces/olivierdehaene/chat-llm-stream...
         | 
         | It's also completely OSS, Apache 2.0, unlike LLaMA and Alpaca
         | which are non-commercial.
        
         | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
         | It's interesting that when ChatGPT 3.5 came out - everyone
         | said, this is it! It's ready for primetime.
         | 
         | And now that there's a few competitors in the same league - 3.5
         | quality is suddenly garbage and only 4.0 is good enough.
         | 
         | Was it good enough before or wasn't it?
        
           | bioemerl wrote:
           | It's really not good enough yet, it's impressive for what it
           | is in our current time. But we're looking at the 1980s
           | computers.
           | 
           | They are neat, they are useful, but they can do so much more.
        
           | coeneedell wrote:
           | The problem is that you've identified two distinct and non-
           | overlapping sets of people as "everyone". Everyone who was
           | applauding 3.5 when it came out were industry hype people.
           | Even the critical voices were industry hype people, paid to
           | assume the AI is powerful and write about the possible
           | negative consequences of that assumption.
           | 
           | Now we've all gotten familiar with 3.5, and we've come to
           | understand its limitations, so the public knows it's not a
           | "godlike" AI.
           | 
           | Luckily there's a fresh new model, not technically different
           | from the earlier one but it cost more money to build. The
           | hype group can start again, citing the publicly known
           | limitations of 3.5. But in 6 months we'll understand what's
           | wrong with it, and the public will be talking about the
           | limitations, just in time for 4.5.
        
         | codetrotter wrote:
         | > represent a movie plot as emoji
         | 
         | This sounded like a really cool idea but I asked ChatGPT to do
         | this for the plot of the movie The Shawashank Redemption and
         | there is no way that I would ever have been able to guess that
         | movie from the emojis it gave me. Perhaps GPT-4 does a better
         | job at it.
        
         | nickthegreek wrote:
         | Where does one find the 13B alpaca model?
        
           | superkuh wrote:
           | Be aware this file is a single ~8GB 4-bit model (ggml-
           | alpaca-13b-q4.bin) instead of the 2x ~4GB models (ggml-
           | model-q4_0.bin, ggml-model-q4_0.bin.1) that most llama.cpp
           | style inference running programs expect. You'll probably have
           | to edit the line,                   n_parts =
           | LLAMA_N_PARTS.at(hparams.n_embd);
           | 
           | in chat.cpp (or main.cpp) to hard code it to treat this 1
           | file model properly like,                   n_parts = 1;
           | 
           | Or re-write the parameter config subroutine to recognize and
           | handle non-standard weights file.
           | 
           | magnet: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:053b3d54d2e77ff020ebddf51dad681f2
           | a651071&dn=ggml-alpaca-13b-q4.bin&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.open
           | trackr.org%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fopentracker.i2p.r
           | ocks%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.
           | com%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F9.rarbg.com%3A2810%2Fann
           | ounce
           | 
           | torrent: https://btcache.me/torrent/053B3D54D2E77FF020EBDDF51
           | DAD681F2...
           | 
           | torrent: https://torrage.info/torrent.php?h=053b3d54d2e77ff02
           | 0ebddf51...
           | 
           | via: https://github.com/antimatter15/alpaca.cpp
        
         | LASR wrote:
         | In my personal testing, I throw some sophisticated use cases at
         | LLMs - particularly chain of thought reasoning. None of the
         | models out there are able to do this this well, except for the
         | OG GPT-3 Davinci-003. Even the newer turbo models are not as
         | good.
         | 
         | I am playing around with GPT-4 this week though. Let's see how
         | that goes.
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | The newer turbo models are the ChatGPT models, and are worse
           | than text-davinci-003, in my experience. The gpt-4 model is
           | also not as good as the GPT-4 chat version, which is very
           | odd.
        
         | crooked-v wrote:
         | For me the easiest comparison between models is to give it an
         | absurd but entirely possible request, like "Write me a fanfic
         | where the Animorphs battle the truck from Duel, but in the
         | style of Mark Twain". So far nothing else I've tried has done
         | even as well as GPT 3.5 yet, let alone GPT 4.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | pram wrote:
           | How exactly do you get it to keep going? Every time I try a
           | prompt like this in the playground it spits out a couple
           | paragraphs and then refuses to generate anything further,
           | even with tokens maxed out.
        
             | jazzyjackson wrote:
             | I never used the OpenAI playground, see if Poe.com will
             | work for you. They give free access to GPT3.5 and Claude,
             | Antrhopic AIs competitor. Paid subscription for GPT4 and
             | Claude+
        
             | sharedfrog wrote:
             | Simply telling it "continue" has worked for me.
        
               | crooked-v wrote:
               | You can also tell it "Continue, but with (...)" to fine-
               | tune the output further, or "Tell that again, but with
               | (...)" to adjust the previous response.
        
               | typon wrote:
               | I found that "continue exactly where you left off" will
               | continue in a way that you expect it to more often.
        
             | Karrot_Kream wrote:
             | You can just resubmit the prompt and existing history to
             | have the model continue generating new tokens.
        
           | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
           | > Write me a fanfic where the Animorphs battle the truck from
           | Duel, but in the style of Mark Twain
           | 
           | Whoa. I want to read this! Duel - what a great film. Twain -
           | amazing writer. Animorphs - published after my teen years but
           | sounds like a great story!
        
             | Larrikin wrote:
             | Highly recommend Animorphs. As an adult the books can be
             | read through pretty quickly, but the story really holds up.
             | Deals with some heavy topics of genocide, enslavement (even
             | exploring the justifications of the enslavers), PTSD among
             | other topics but was still considered a kids book.
             | 
             | It becomes obvious in the middle when some of the books
             | were written by ghost writers, but the books are so easy to
             | read I don't really recommend skipping them. If you must
             | you could probably get away with reading the first ten,
             | last ten, but should definitely read all of the Chronicle
             | books.
        
               | crooked-v wrote:
               | Maybe the most striking bit of its exploration of the
               | morality of war is that the series spends something like
               | 45 books building up the alien Andalites as beneficent
               | do-gooders who the team of protagonists expect to swoop
               | in and fix everything (including one of the protagonists
               | who is a young Andalite stranded on Earth), and then it
               | turns out that they've been as morally worn down by the
               | ongoing interstellar war as the protagonists have in
               | their guerrilla conflicts on Earth and are effectively as
               | hostile to humans as the original invaders.
        
               | SllX wrote:
               | > If you must you could probably get away with reading
               | the first ten, last ten
               | 
               | Not sure that you can. If you were to skip any, probably
               | only 31 through 39 are completely skippable, maybe some
               | of the late 20s but I would still read 29 and 30 at a
               | minimum. Some of the teens and 20s might be skippable
               | after 13 but there's a fair amount of world-building
               | outside the Chronicles series in the 20s; and 40 onwards
               | is setting up the end game and then the end game. 41 and
               | 48 are both weird but also kind of key towards finalizing
               | the characters of the two cover characters in the end
               | game.
               | 
               | EDIT: actually 33 and 38 shouldn't be skipped either.
               | They're Tobias and Ax books and there's so few of those
               | that they're all kind of essential, but maybe the Tobias
               | books just a little bit more essential.
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | I couldn't do it either as I have no idea what Animorphs or
           | Duel are.
        
             | ianlevesque wrote:
             | That's ok, just ask ChatGPT to explain them to you.
        
               | crooked-v wrote:
               | ChatGPT 4 input:
               | 
               | > Can you give separate summaries of the Animorphs book
               | series and the film Duel?
               | 
               | The reply:
               | 
               | > Animorphs Book Series Summary: The Animorphs series,
               | written by K.A. Applegate, is a popular young adult
               | science fiction book series spanning 54 books and several
               | companion novels. The story revolves around five
               | teenagers--Jake, Rachel, Tobias, Cassie, and Marco--who
               | are granted the power to morph into any animal they touch
               | by a dying alien named Elfangor. The teens, known as the
               | Animorphs, use their new abilities to battle an evil
               | alien race called the Yeerks, who are secretly invading
               | Earth by taking control of humans' minds. Throughout the
               | series, the Animorphs learn about the complexities of
               | war, friendship, and sacrifice as they try to save
               | humanity from the Yeerk invasion.
               | 
               | > Duel Film Summary: Duel is a 1971 television movie
               | directed by Steven Spielberg and based on the short story
               | by Richard Matheson. The film follows a mild-mannered
               | traveling salesman named David Mann (played by Dennis
               | Weaver), who unwittingly finds himself in a deadly game
               | of cat and mouse on a remote California highway. Mann is
               | pursued by a mysterious and relentless tanker truck
               | driver, who seems determined to kill him for no apparent
               | reason. With escalating tension and suspense, the film
               | delves into themes of fear, paranoia, and the primal
               | fight for survival. Duel is notable for being Spielberg's
               | directorial debut, showcasing his skillful storytelling
               | and unique visual style that would later become hallmarks
               | of his career.
        
               | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
               | Duel is a great film but requires patience compared to a
               | lot of today's films. There's not much action for quite
               | some time -- just a man driving through the desert. Even
               | when things pick up, it's still slow pacing by today's
               | standards. It's from another era, and I doubt anyone
               | would make a film today with the same pacing.
        
               | vdfs wrote:
               | I wonder if they will add "chatgpt it" or "gpt it" to the
               | dictionaries
        
               | MildlySerious wrote:
               | I wouldn't be surprised if GPT ends up as the the
               | AskJeeves of LLMs.
        
           | starik36 wrote:
           | That is my experience as well. I've tried various models but
           | nothing comes even close to the current ChatGPT
           | implementation (when it manages to stay up).
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Recent and related:
       | 
       |  _Stanford Alpaca web demo suspended "until further notice"_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35200557 - March 2023 (77
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Stanford Alpaca, and the acceleration of on-device LLM
       | development_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35141531 -
       | March 2023 (66 comments)
       | 
       |  _Alpaca: An Instruct Tuned LLaMA 7B - Responses on par with txt-
       | DaVinci-3_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35139450 -
       | March 2023 (11 comments)
       | 
       |  _Alpaca: A strong open-source instruction-following model_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35136624 - March 2023 (296
       | comments)
        
       | simonw wrote:
       | Related, my post "Could you train a ChatGPT-beating model for
       | $85,000 and run it in a browser?"
       | https://simonwillison.net/2023/Mar/17/beat-chatgpt-in-a-brow...
       | 
       | I think you can train LLaMA 7B (the model underlying Alpaca) for
       | around $82,000, based on the Meta Research paper about it. Then
       | you can fine-tune it ala Alpaca for a few hundred dollars more.
       | 
       | My wilder speculation is that, if you can shrink the model down
       | to 4GB with llama.cpp 4bit quantization, it may be possible to
       | run it entirely in the browser (ala Stable Diffusion from the
       | other day).
        
       | starik36 wrote:
       | From the article: Pre-trained on a trillion "tokens"...
       | 
       | Doesn't 7B indicates that it was trained on 7 billion tokens? Or
       | am I misunderstanding the nomenclature?
        
         | instance wrote:
         | 7B is the number of parameters of the model.
        
         | superkuh wrote:
         | The emerging consensus for larger LLM is you want to train them
         | with at least 2-4x the tokens of the number of parameters
         | (weights between neurons in the layers). A trillion (100x)
         | surprises me.
        
           | sitic wrote:
           | The LLaMA paper contradicts this view: "[...] Although
           | Hoffmann et al. (2022) recommends training a 10B model on
           | 200B tokens, we find that the performance of a 7B model
           | continues to improve even after 1T tokens."
           | https://arxiv.org/pdf/2302.13971.pdf
        
           | sebzim4500 wrote:
           | They probably put most of the effort into the 65B model, the
           | 7B model was just trained so they could get an idea of the
           | scaling behaviour. It makes sense to use the same amount of
           | training steps, then.
        
         | dragonwriter wrote:
         | > Doesn't 7B indicates that it was trained on 7 billion tokens?
         | 
         | No, 7B means it has 7 billion parameters.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | xwdv wrote:
       | Given the high prices of OpenAI offerings it seems it's better to
       | pirate an AI model before resorting to paying for anything.
        
         | nico wrote:
         | How much does it cost to privately fine-tune and run Llama?
         | 
         | It's USD 600 for fine-tuning. Maybe USD 4-5k for a computer
         | that can run it.
         | 
         | ChatGPT pro is $20/month. 5k would be 250 months (10+ years) of
         | paid access.
         | 
         | Not sure pirating it now adds up.
        
           | mromanuk wrote:
           | Most people doesn't fine tune the models (llama or openAI). A
           | MacBook M1 can run those model ($1000) and in many cases the
           | user already have it. You also need a computer to access
           | openAI, the comparison boils down to $20/m vs $0. At this
           | point in time, LLM are a curiosity for most people
        
           | zamnos wrote:
           | Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's per-user, unless you all
           | just share an account, or you build out a bespoke API
           | integration. Which is to say if you have 25 developers, you'd
           | spend $5k in 1 month.
           | 
           | The reason to pirate it would to be able to fine-tune the
           | model on your private internal source code repository,
           | assuming you already have an existing large body of work you
           | want to train it and offer SelfHostedCoPilot on your bespoke
           | internal-only DSL that ChatGPT and Copilot has no way of
           | having seen and would undoubtedly hallucinate about by a
           | considerable margin.
        
         | ronsor wrote:
         | ChatGPT API is surprisingly cheap, but GPT-4 is many times more
         | expensive to the point where I can't see it being worth it most
         | of the time.
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | I'm not convinced that the GPT-4 API actually works? It's
           | been giving me very different answers than the chat
           | interface. For example, the chat interface says it's GPT-4 if
           | you ask it, but the API says it's GPT-3 (and bills as GPT-4).
        
             | siva7 wrote:
             | If you're satisfied with the results who cares what it
             | thinks it is
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | I'm not. It's worse than the chat version.
        
             | trevyn wrote:
             | Has the ChatGPT-4 "system" prompt been revealed?
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | Hmm, you think that's what makes a difference? It might
               | be, though I've gotten different (what I find worse)
               | results on other questions as well.
        
               | trevyn wrote:
               | This is a great (pre-GPT-4) post that goes into the
               | system prompt and its effects:
               | https://minimaxir.com/2023/03/new-chatgpt-overlord/
               | 
               | Are you using any system prompt in your API calls? Note
               | that it does have an explicit domain separation from the
               | user and assistant roles.
               | 
               | I suspect it plays a greater role in GPT-4 as well, i.e.
               | was trained on a wider variety of system prompts to guide
               | the output of the model.
        
             | johntb86 wrote:
             | Why would the LLM model know what version it actually is?
             | It was trained on data from before that model version even
             | existed.
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | - What version model are you?
               | 
               | - I am based on the GPT-4 architecture, which is an
               | iteration of OpenAI's Generative Pre-trained Transformer
               | models. My training data includes information up to
               | September 2021.
               | 
               | - How do you know your version?
               | 
               | - As an AI language model, I am programmed with
               | information about my own architecture and the version I
               | am based on. My creators at OpenAI provided me with this
               | knowledge, which helps me to give context to users about
               | my capabilities and limitations. In this case, I am based
               | on the GPT-4 architecture, an iteration of OpenAI's
               | Generative Pre-trained Transformer models.
        
         | nerpderp82 wrote:
         | The world is becoming more cyberpunk everyday, people making
         | back alley deals for data or models.
         | 
         | These weights are shit man, they have been quanted w/o being
         | retrained against the original. I already have this torrent, I
         | want uncut originals. And no water marks this time, the last
         | model wouldn't shutup about investing in tulips.
        
           | oezi wrote:
           | Shh, I got some unnerfed midjourney v8 for your nsfw needs,
           | my friend...
        
             | nerpderp82 wrote:
             | I will only pay half unless you supply the training data as
             | well.
        
         | Firmwarrior wrote:
         | Isn't openAI only charging something like a 20th of a penny per
         | interaction right now? Definitely not the kind of thing you
         | want to incorporate into a widespread free app just yet, but it
         | seems pretty affordable for a lot of use cases
        
           | sp332 wrote:
           | That's the price per "token". A token is a word or part of a
           | word - rule of thumb is four tokens per three words.
        
           | dragonwriter wrote:
           | > Isn't openAI only charging something like a 20th of a penny
           | per interaction right now?
           | 
           | They don't charge per interaction, but per token. The chat
           | models range from a fifth of a cent per 1000 tokens to 12
           | cents per thousand tokens (depending on whether it's gpt-3.5,
           | or the 8k limit gpt-4, or the 32k limit gpt-4, and, for gpt-4
           | models, also prompt v. response tokens.)
        
       | raydiatian wrote:
       | > It seems these godlike AIs are already frighteningly cheap and
       | easy to replicate.
       | 
       | Who writes this shit?
        
         | meh8881 wrote:
         | Irreplaceable humans
        
         | B1FF_PSUVM wrote:
         | Hard to say ...
        
           | dr_kiszonka wrote:
           | Thanks for a genuinely funny comment!
        
       | gaogao wrote:
       | Has anyone tried this yet on the 65B version? I'm curious if it
       | knows how to rhyme and other emergent behavior, as alpace-7B does
       | not.
        
       | satvikpendem wrote:
       | Alpaca is cool but it's also not technically allowed by OpenAI's
       | TOS, and LLaMA is certainly not allowed to be used for non-
       | commercial purposes. With that in mind, OpenAssistant is an
       | Apache 2.0 licensed fully open source alternative that's pretty
       | good (the model is OpenAssistant/oasst-sft-1-pythia-12b):
       | https://huggingface.co/spaces/olivierdehaene/chat-llm-stream....
       | 
       | I've found OA to be better than Alpaca but I'll wait until the
       | 65B 3-bit quantization efforts for Alpaca are underway to compare
       | them.
        
       | Waterluvian wrote:
       | If you use consciousness as a baseline, the intellectual
       | difference between a grade schooler and a PhD is tiny.
       | 
       | This is what I think comparing these bots is like. You can argue
       | that they're very close. But the delta makes a very big
       | difference for any practical purposes because we're looking for
       | nuanced capability.
        
       | jakedata wrote:
       | AI bootstrapping AI is a sci-fi trope that goes back decades. I
       | first encountered it in The Cybernetic Samurai while in high
       | school. While the details differ, the reality is that AI is a
       | catalyst for more of itself.
       | 
       | I don't remember many books where this ends particularly well.
       | Perhaps the Culture universe could be a survivable outcome.
       | Hopefully we don't get Berzerkers first.
        
         | nuclearsugar wrote:
         | Stable Diffusion trains StyleGAN2 -
         | https://www.jasonfletcher.info/vjloops/
        
       | welly34h wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | cjohnson318 wrote:
       | > It seems these godlike AIs are already frighteningly cheap and
       | easy to replicate.
       | 
       | "godlike"? Really? I'm not religious, but this seems like an
       | overreaction for something that has no agency.
        
         | Jcowell wrote:
         | What if creation was a result of a lucky happen-by-chance
         | hallucination ?
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | If it's a shorthand for omniscience then I can see how it makes
         | sense. A bit hyperbolic though for sure.
        
       | freediver wrote:
       | The incredible contribution of Alpaca is showing the world how to
       | efficicently train LLM on instructions. The fact that it did so
       | on 52k instructions generated by GPT is poetic.
       | 
       | It does not matter what current capabilities of open source
       | models are, because this opens the door to tremendous
       | democratization of the ability to train and self-deploy these
       | models.
       | 
       | In less than 6 months we will have open source models with
       | gpt3-like capabilities, running locally on laptops, and
       | potentially in phones and web browsers.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | awinter-py wrote:
       | > asked GPT to take 175 human-written instruction/output pairs,
       | and start generating more in the same style and format ...
       | through one of OpenAI's helpfully provided APIs, and ... the team
       | had some 52,000 sample conversations to use in post-training the
       | LLaMA model
       | 
       | hmm I wonder if this is essentially a probe[1] technique + relies
       | on chatgpt already having been extensively trained
       | 
       | like did they basically exfiltrate the weights
       | 
       | 1. probing per https://arxiv.org/abs/2102.12452
        
       | alecco wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/xIKIN
        
       | UncleOxidant wrote:
       | Is it accurate to say they were trained for less than $600?
       | Wouldn't that just be the finetuning that was done to the already
       | existing LLaMA parameters which likely cost way more than $600 to
       | train?
        
         | simonw wrote:
         | Yeah, exactly. LLaMA 7B itself cost $80,000+ to train (82,432
         | GPU hours). Stanford spent $100 on fine-tuning compute and $500
         | on OpenAI credits to generate their 52,000 sample instruction
         | training set.
        
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