[HN Gopher] Lessons from a Pessimist: Make Your Pessimism Produc...
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Lessons from a Pessimist: Make Your Pessimism Productive
Author : earthboundkid
Score : 112 points
Date : 2023-03-20 16:10 UTC (6 hours ago)
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(TXT) w3m dump (lucumr.pocoo.org)
| ksd482 wrote:
| _Rather than becoming despondent about AI, my pessimistic side
| assumes that things can go wrong and acts accordingly, all while
| giving the technology a fair chance._
|
| This is what I was looking for. I like the idea the author is
| presenting here, but I was hoping that he would focus more on
| what to do when you have a pessimistic thought.
|
| That is, using a pessimistic thought as a cue and reacting with
| thinking about it as an opportunity to improve something or even
| accepting it as a reality without approving or disapproving and
| coming up with a pragmatic response.
| giantg2 wrote:
| I'm too pessimistic about your claims to try.
| j45 wrote:
| Doubt-worshipping ultimately seeks to reinforce the doubts and
| finds ways to continue doing so, and spread.
|
| Having a healthy dose and harmony of pragmatic realism but still
| a willingness to dive into the unknown to try with an open mind
| and heart is another thing.
|
| Innovation that's accessible for the many is often only possible
| from a mindset of possibility exploring and developing
| capabilities.
| clumsysmurf wrote:
| July Norem described "defensive pessimism" in "The Positive Power
| Of Negative Thinking" (2001). I found it useful as a musician at
| the time. I always wondered, how my setup / gear would fail while
| setting up before a concert.
| japhyr wrote:
| > And as cheesy as it sounds, try to surround yourself with
| supportive individuals who can help you maintain a positive
| outlook and try to be that person for others.
|
| One of the things I keep coming back to over the last few days is
| the increasing value of face to face interactions.
|
| It's been possible, and even easy, to fake pictures for quite a
| while. Recently we've had to treat videos with the same degree of
| skepticism we've been looking at pictures with. Now we're having
| to shift that kind of skepticism to all non face to face
| interactions.
|
| Like a lot of people here, probably most, I've formed a number of
| really meaningful long-term friendships with people I've never
| met, largely mediated over text interactions. I won't be
| surprised if, over the next decade or two, people end up
| developing "friendships" with what turn out to be bots.
|
| What kinds of interactions can we let our guard down and fully
| trust as authentic? Face to face interactions will be there for a
| long time. Real-time interactions with people we know and trust
| over a distance will be reliable for a while, although if they're
| demanding something unusual we'd have to wonder if they're being
| faked.
|
| The suggestion to make time for meaningful, direct interactions
| with other people is a really important one.
| Loughla wrote:
| >What kinds of interactions can we let our guard down and fully
| trust as authentic? Face to face interactions will be there for
| a long time.
|
| Oh man are you going to be pissed when you learn about this:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_trick
| aliasxneo wrote:
| AKA the metagame of Eve Online.
| haswell wrote:
| I think the message is at its core a good one, but I think
| there's a meaningful/important difference between pessimism and
| having the ability/capacity to defensively imagine all the ways
| in which something could go wrong. I think the author alludes to
| this somewhat, but I don't think this is quite as simple as "I'm
| being pragmatically and usefully pessimistic, but be careful with
| the pessimistic tendency".
|
| Pessimism seems to be pervasive, and can spill into other areas
| of life. The form of pragmatism described can be learned, self
| contained, and is not inherently a pessimistic endeavor, even if
| pessimism is a natural pathway to the skill.
|
| Pessimism was hammered into me from an early age. I, too, saw my
| pessimism as a pragmatic tool to be used as I solved problems in
| the world, and I applied it as such. I allowed this application
| of pessimism to turn into an acceptance that I was just a
| pessimistic person, but that's ok <because here's how it helps
| me>. The trouble is that this is also a path that leads to
| learned helplessness, a state that by definition one is unable to
| escape without some kind of intervention or new awareness,
| because to be in this state is to be unaware of the alternatives.
|
| It took quite a few years for me to truly see the dark side, and
| how my pessimism had actually permeated many other aspects of how
| I think. And how my success in channeling my pessimism had made
| me blind to that permeation and the negative impact it had on
| other parts of my life and daily experience.
|
| I don't think the people around me saw me as a pessimistic
| person, but the internal states left behind by this default state
| of mind were quite harmful. I realized that it contributed
| significantly to unhelpful rumination about other things in life.
| It contributed greatly to my depression and other forms of stuck-
| ness. It left me missing out on opportunities that I discarded by
| default.
|
| Therapy for the traumatic upbringing that birthed the pessimistic
| defaults was a huge first step, but the book Learned Optimism
| (has been mentioned in a few threads lately) is must-read if you
| find yourself anywhere on the pessimism spectrum. It reframed
| pessimism for me in a way that was very important, and helped me
| see that my pragmatic use of pessimism - while useful - did not
| require me to maintain a pessimistic outlook.
|
| Pessimism trained me to think defensively about problems, but is
| ultimately an artifact that is unnecessary to continue such a
| practice. I've got a ways to go, but rewiring the pessimistic
| patterns of thought has made life much better, and I haven't lost
| my ability to think critically (and when needed, pessimistically)
| about problems that require this mindset.
| glacials wrote:
| The word that describes what the author calls destructive
| pessimism is defeatism--an expectation and acceptance of failure.
| This itself causes failure.
| vjk800 wrote:
| I've had very similar thoughts about pessimism. I certainly am
| one.
|
| The fact that I don't expect a very good outcome doesn't mean I
| shouldn't try, because what the hell else can I do? At worst, I
| get useful information out of my (likely) failures.
|
| Also, thinking and preparing for the worst doesn't need to be a
| gloomy thing. It can even be empowering. When I've thought of all
| the possible crappy outcomes that might happen, I can be
| confident that whatever happens, I'll survive. I wish more people
| were like me; I'm confident that lots of disasters in the world
| could be avoided if people just took their heads out from the
| sand and embraced all the horrible possibilities that exist.
| aliasxneo wrote:
| Eh, I see it as a double-edged sword. My pessimism has likely
| contributed to my decade of success in high-stakes environments
| (i.e., nuclear). However, I've struggled with anxiety my entire
| adult life.
|
| So yeah, I wish more people could find that middle place, but
| the extreme end can be debilitating for those like me.
| EvanAnderson wrote:
| _Also, thinking and preparing for the worst doesn 't need to be
| a gloomy thing. It can even be empowering._
|
| It absolutely is. When things go wrong I have already thought
| about the triage and backup plans. The situation will still by
| dynamic, but I won't be scrambling to begin making plans. I'll
| be be refining what I've already thought about to match the new
| reality.
|
| It feels pretty badass to be thrown a curveball and not be
| phased. I can only do that if I've considered what could go
| wrong and planned for contingencies.
| sohtym wrote:
| > When I've thought of all the possible crappy outcomes that
| might happen, I can be confident that whatever happens, I'll
| survive.
|
| I've heard this before, but it never worked for me because I
| can imagine things going pretty bad. I do think there is a lot
| of undue optimism. An assumption that things will work out.
| They often don't. Maybe worrying about nuclear war isn't that
| productive, but we should all be a lot more worried about
| things like working environment, rising inequality and the cost
| of living. Ask Japan.
| gingerlime wrote:
| I found this BBC podcast[0] quite insightful about optimism vs
| pessimism. One interesting thing is that there are far more
| optimists than pessimists in the population. If I recall it's a
| 9:1 ratio.
|
| [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct1prd
| trashface wrote:
| Destructive pessimists are often formerly functional pessimistic.
| Once life throws enough hardballs at you, its easy to devolve
| into this state. Economic strife is one big reason. People who
| are unemployed or underemployed often realize they made some bad
| choices, but they also know they have been screwed by choices
| their society has made, which often seem quite arbitrary or even
| malicious.
|
| This is the case with inflation, it changes the game of living
| "just because", and some people feel the pain and others not so
| much. Those who can't renegotiate for higher income are just
| going to be more negative, and that will percolate one way or
| another up to those who are better off.
|
| Right now in the US we have the spectacle of big banks being
| bailed out for irresponsible management at the same time food
| assistance for poor people is being cut back (the expiration of
| pandemic-related SNAP expansion). Wealthy people are being
| rightsized while poor people literally starve. Threats to banks
| are considered a systemic risk, but hunger in the population
| isn't. I'd like to find an optimist to explain what is good about
| that to me, unfortunately I don't know any.
| luhn wrote:
| If you read any Emotional Intelligence self-help books, you'll
| find a definition of optimism/pessimism that's similar to what OP
| is talking about. The lay definition of optimism is thinking
| things are great, Emotional Intelligence defines it as "rolling
| with the punches" when things get bad, and most importantly
| avoiding vicious emotional cycles where a small problem can
| spiral into an entire day ruined. A lot of so-called "optimists"
| are actually pessimists that are in denial about bad things
| because they're unable to emotional handle them.
|
| I think that's a good lens at which to look at it, because it
| doesn't matter whether you think a situation is "good" or "bad",
| what matters is how you deal with it. OP's "pragmatic pessimism"
| is actually optimism by this definition, and I agree with OP that
| it's overall a positive trait--Although it does require
| maintaining some social cognizance, because many people do not
| particularly _like_ a tendency to proactively identify problems.
| andrewstuart wrote:
| Armin Ronacher is a super smart guy, a leader in the Python
| community and a real giver in terms of his really significant
| open source output including Flask, itsdangerous and others. He
| is to be praised and thanked for his excellent work.
|
| It is true however that he was super pessimistic about Python 3
| and was one of the leading voices for a long time talking down
| Python 3.
|
| Python 3s transition was a lesson in how not to do things, but
| history has shown ultimately Python 3 did not kill Python, it led
| to Python 3 becoming one of the worlds most successful languages,
| despite the pessimism and naysayers.
| the_mitsuhiko wrote:
| Author here:
|
| > It is true however that he was super pessimistic about Python
| 3 and was one of the leading voices for a long time talking
| down Python 3.
|
| I strongly advocated against underestimating the cost of
| migration, which is also why I argued for bringing back the `u`
| prefix for strings to make supporting 2.x and 3.x work at the
| same time. I also built a tool to modernize Python codebases to
| support both at once. I think in retrospective I was not wrong
| about that the transition will take time.
|
| I don't think the migration to 3.x would have been any faster
| if I would have pretended it's easy :)
| sitkack wrote:
| I followed your arguments, and frankly you continue to be
| more right over time. We happened to get lucky that Python
| and Data Science and then by extension AIML aligned because
| that really did carry Python over the 2-3 chasm.
|
| There should be a book in the style of the Mythical Man Month
| about discontinuous tech stack transitions (Python 2 to 3).
| Or ecosystem splitting issues (Phobos/Tango), or Package
| Management (C++).
|
| I don't view your engineering mindset as pessimism, I view it
| as realist. My take is that engineering is 80% failure
| mitigation, but if we don't do solid failure analysis we will
| only get lucky 1/5 the time. I think this is why we see so
| many software projects fail.
|
| Backporting Python3 features to Python2 would have made the
| transition _go faster_ for everyone. You are on a hike with a
| bunch of scouts, huge range of gear and physical and
| emotional ability, you don 't bitch at the fast ones to go
| slower, you don't bitch at the slow ones to go faster, you
| redistribute the load, and if the fast ones are still fast,
| you give them enough supplies to start setting up camp ahead
| of the rest of the group.
| andrewstuart wrote:
| Even today Python 3 makes conversion between bytes and
| Unicode and ascii too hard.
|
| After many years Python programming I still have to look up
| which direction encode and decode point when converting
| bytes/strings/whatever.
|
| Python 3 still suffers from not having simple, explicit
| functions for converting such a string_to_ascii or whatever.
| Python was meant to be about providing explicit obvious one
| way to do something but encode and decode are a giant fail in
| this area and I think this is a primary reason why Python 2
| to Python 3 was so hard for people.
|
| I am quite pessimistic about this. Still not fixed or even
| acknowledged as a problem today.
|
| If developers have to keep looking something up over and over
| then the developer is thick or the programming language has
| failed usability in that area.
| js2 wrote:
| I've been using Python since 1.5.2. I find converting a
| Python 2 codebase to Python 3 fairly challenging because it
| cannot be done mechanically. You have to carefully consider
| each string and whether it is bytes or a string.
|
| But for new Python 3 code, I do not find it painful at all.
| The reason for the transition (to distinct byte/string
| types) was that it was too easy to confuse the two in
| Python 2.
|
| Is your critique that you don't feel that the distinct
| types are needed, or that it's too difficult to convert
| from bytes to string and vice-versa?
|
| I'm not sure how it can be much easier: b"".decode("utf8")
| and "".encode("utf8") are quite clear to me.
|
| Is it just that decode/encode are hard to remember? You
| could use str(b"", "utf8") and bytes("", "utf8"). Careful
| with str(b"", "utf8") though because if you leave out the
| encoding you'll get back a string, but probably not the
| string you want.
| andrewstuart wrote:
| >>> I'm not sure how it can be much easier:
| b"".decode("utf8") and "".encode("utf8") are quite clear
| to me.
|
| They look arcane and unclear to me. Which direction is
| encode and which is decode? What does decode and encode
| actually mean? There should be some hint in the function
| name.
|
| Here is a question for you.... for the example you give,
| what are all the possible permutations of every possible
| component of each command?
|
| What happens if you prefix encode with b? What if you
| don't prefix decode with b? What other possible values
| can go in the brackets? Can I encode and decode all types
| of input?
| tremon wrote:
| What's stopping you from finding the answers to these
| questions yourself?
|
| _What happens if you prefix encode with b?_
| >>> b'these are bytes'.encode('utf8') Traceback
| (most recent call last): File "<stdin>", line 1,
| in <module> AttributeError: 'bytes' object has no
| attribute 'encode'
|
| _What if you don't prefix decode with b?_
| >>> 'this is a string'.decode('utf8') Traceback
| (most recent call last): File "<stdin>", line 1,
| in <module> AttributeError: 'str' object has no
| attribute 'decode'
|
| _What other possible values can go in the brackets? Can I
| encode and decode all types of input?_
|
| https://docs.python.org/3/library/codecs.html#standard-
| encod...
|
| Proper Unicode handling is hard for developers because
| many prefer not to think about it at all. Do you have an
| example of a language that has a Unicode conversion API
| that does work for you?
| js2 wrote:
| You encode from a Unicode string to bytes and decode from
| bytes to a Unicode string. Remember that things like
| "utf8" and "ascii" are so called "encodings" of Unicode.
| Base64 is also an encoding (of bytes to ascii).
|
| Now the terms encode and decode may be jargon, but they
| are not terms that Python made up. This is standard
| terminology for our industry.
|
| I understand you find them arcane and unclear. I'm not
| trying to convince you otherwise. Which is why I
| suggested the alternative of using bytes("", encoding)
| and str(b"", encoding) as an option that you might find
| more clear.
|
| Maybe Python should have named these to_bytes() and
| to_string() instead. I can't argue against that. I'm only
| saying that I don't find encode/decode unclear and that
| they are standard industry terminology.
| andrewstuart wrote:
| I'm not asking you to explain it to me. You explaining
| does not make the commands easy.
|
| I'm addressing the point that you made that the commands
| are obvious, they're not.
|
| I was asking you to identify all the permutations because
| that is what makes those commands complex and need
| constant looking up.
| HPsquared wrote:
| "The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the
| parachute." - George Bernard Shaw
| hinkley wrote:
| I can't recall which design book I was reading, but there was
| an anecdote about having to make destructive changes to a
| building because they installed equipment that could 'never
| break' into the concrete superstructure with no access points.
|
| It will astonish exactly nobody here, with or without that
| setup, that they had to drill into a concrete wall to get
| access to the thing when it eventually broke.
|
| Hope for the Best, Plan for the Worst.
| jjoonathan wrote:
| Pessimism about pessimism is the strongest case for optimism
| about optimism.
| prpl wrote:
| I've been around pessimists, which can have different flavors,
| and while it can be draining, it can also be strangely motivating
| - some of my best work is frankly adversarial pessimists.
| skeeter2020 wrote:
| I (half-jokingly, half-serious) refer to myself as a naive
| pessimist: I expect the worst then I'm continually surprised
| when I get it. It's not about being overly (and overtly)
| negative, but more your perspective on risk & mitigation. If
| you are a pessimist like me I would caution you to not surround
| yourself with many other pessimists, as there's definitely a
| tendency to ride the junk food high of the downward spiral when
| we congregate.
| jrvarela56 wrote:
| We're all a bit more anxious/pessimist than what's objectively
| needed for a situation - natural selection, etc.
|
| Writing about my plans has helped me give my anxiety/pessimism a
| productive job: help me spot what makes me doubt/worry so I can
| probe further. Identifying these items where conviction is low,
| makes me explore my motivations, look up data to validate my
| claims and breakdown my plans further.
|
| The worrying becomes a task about finding what needs to be
| validated/double checked. If I'm assuming X isn't going to work
| because Y, then I can lookup evidence/data or make more specific
| questions. What I like about it is that it generates actionables
| - the worrying for it's own sake eats up my motivation but having
| a checklist of stuff that I need to look into gives me an outlet.
| blowski wrote:
| > We're all a bit more anxious/pessimist than what's
| objectively needed for a situation
|
| You should meet my product manager and reconsider.
| waboremo wrote:
| The easiest distinction is being publicly optimistic and
| privately pessimistic. It seems "two faced" but it's not let me
| explain.
|
| Being privately pessimistic has huge benefits, listed in the
| article and on other comments. Your planning becomes more
| effective, you're less starry-eyed with what actions you are
| actually taking. You become a foundation for those around you.
|
| But being publicly pessimistic does not have the same benefits.
| While it's true you can gain a lot of fame/money by being
| pessimistic on social media, it's also internally destructive.
| You stop believing in yourself and those around you. It's the
| very reason why so many "critics" (I put this in quotations
| because 99.9% don't have any sort of standards) fail to be able
| to produce anything noteworthy in the fields they obsess over.
| They just become this sort of endless monotony of could've
| would've should've but projected onto others. Everyone knows a
| bunch of people like this, talented but they spend most of their
| time being so publicly pessimistic about whatever the subject is.
| Some workplaces are so toxic because the "decision maker" is
| nothing but a public pessimist.
|
| It's so important to recognize what you are putting out into the
| world through your voice/words, and what is really happening when
| you are being publicly pessimistic. Are you actually criticizing
| for improvement, or are you creating a rift in a community?
| Sounds dramatic but this is what happens in a lot of open source
| communities, public pessimism becomes the norm because it's
| easier than criticism you are a part of fixing.
| nkjnlknlk wrote:
| I 100% agree. I know pessimism stops me from taking risks (and
| likely rewards), so I'd never subject others to that pessimism
| and try to be outwardly supportive/optimistic towards their
| goals.
|
| That being said, I find that many workplaces are overly
| optimistic and need some pessimism/realism to ground the
| processes.
| Melatonic wrote:
| Not sure I agree with this - I like the part about being
| privately pessismistic (or I would probably instead describe it
| as being privately skeptical). But I have found it works best
| to try to mirror the other person (or persons). If you walk
| into a room and know that everyone are the kind of people that
| find pessismism and skeptics funny then roll with that. Etc
| etc. Essentially know your audience.
| waboremo wrote:
| I don't know, while I do agree with some level of mirroring
| (usually superficially, like mirroring other confident people
| at a networking event), I don't believe anyone should do so
| for repeated interactions. It's just another form of people
| pleasing, and the harms of that are miles long.
|
| Worse yet, this tactic can very quickly become machiavellian.
| Good luck undoing that!
| [deleted]
| lifeisstillgood wrote:
| This is an interesting comparison between the "what makes an
| entrepreneur" post of a day or so ago.
|
| Entrepreneurs can be defined as optimists - and yet it needs a
| pragmatic pessimist to actually build something that works
| js2 wrote:
| A pragmatic pessimist is just a realist, no?
|
| I gripe _all the time_. It's part of my being. It's just what my
| family does. I'm Jewish and so I also associate with it
| culturally. But importantly, it doesn't get us (my family) down.
| I consider it just observing the world. It's quite
| stereotypically Jewish to complain and then say "not that I'm
| complaining." My daughter inherited this lovely (that's sarcasm,
| another thing that runs in my family) trait from me. My son did
| not.
|
| I really have to check myself before complaining around other
| people. And around my wife. Because I recognize that a lot of
| people, most even, don't want to hear it.
|
| A friend once said about me: "Some people think the glass is half
| full, others that it's half empty. You just think the water
| sucks." :-)
| Melatonic wrote:
| Or maybe you just need to improve your sense of humour so that
| all those other people find you hilarious too :-D
| bitwize wrote:
| > I'm Jewish and so I also associate with it culturally.
|
| It's interesting that your culture came up with one of the best
| words to describe the useless, resigned, ambient complaining
| that we're all so tempted to engage in when it seems the world
| wants to kill us with 1000 papercuts: _kvetching_.
| xyzelement wrote:
| I am likewise Jewish and I do think there's some cultural
| tendency towards observation that you're describing (hence,
| perhaps the over-representation of our people among both
| comedians and scientists)
|
| But perhaps there's a big difference between observation and
| griping (to use your word) - in the outcome. Observation can
| lead to improvement: I saw something, I called it out, and then
| I or someone else can fix it. Complaining to me is the non-
| actionable form of observation - making a lot of noise but
| either leading to no improvement or actually discouraging
| yourself and others from taking action around the topic.
| hinkley wrote:
| As a Highly Sensitive Person, life has taught me that if I
| smell smoke or hear scratching sounds, if I don't say something
| then the problem may fester for hours or days before anyone
| else even notices. If I shout, "What are the dogs doing?" from
| two rooms away, I often find out that I have family members in
| the same room as the dogs who have no idea they're chewing on
| something they shouldn't be. Like seriously? They're _right in
| front of you_.
|
| As an easily distracted person, if I don't shop ideas for
| others to adopt, odds are good that they will get forgotten.
|
| So sure, call me a 'complainer'. My better bosses call me a
| scout or a lookout.
| scns wrote:
| I suspect for a long time, that high-sensitivity is the same
| as ADD. All filters wide open, especially for noise.
| Lookout/Scout? For sure. Nack in tribal times it was an
| asset, to have individuals who sleept long and stayed up
| late, saved up to 150 lives in case of emergency. Nowadays it
| is work, to find a niche to thrive in. Meditation and Ritalin
| might help you, being able to experience noise in a different
| way. A the best.
| SoftAnnaLee wrote:
| Personally, I suspect it's autism rather than ADHD (and
| Inattentive-type ADHD, AKA: ADD). In my experience the
| people I've known who have just ADHD tend to be better at
| filtering out external stimuli than those I've known with
| Autism. And likewise the folks I've known who have both
| ADHD and Autism tend to have a harder time filtering out
| stimuli, or getting distracted by particular stimuli, than
| those with just ADHD.
|
| That said, my own personal (and very unscientific) theory
| is that ADHD and Autism are merely differing manifestations
| of the same neurological phenomenon. So I could see that
| somebody who has ADHD might be more sensitive than a
| neurotypical person.
| tayo42 wrote:
| Doesn't autism have a whole set of extra social issues
| like not being able to understand emotions of others?
| hinkley wrote:
| One of the things I've picked up reading HSP literature
| is that the human brain regresses when pushed past its
| limits. You go into fight, flight, or freeze, and from
| there everyone starts to look the same - like a petulant
| toddler. Part of self care is giving yourself permission
| not to torture yourself. To wear earplugs, prefer quiet
| restaurants, to ask the host of a party to please stop
| burning incense like it's Christmas Mass, or to just give
| yourself permission to pop in and then leave after an
| hour.
|
| There's overlap between HSP and alcoholism as well.
| Needing to get smashed at a party in order to 'relax' is
| more than just decompressing after a hard workweek.
| Alcohol dulls the senses.
| hinkley wrote:
| It isn't though. Sensory processing also shows up on the
| Autism spectrum (famously, even), but also in people who
| have neither. The latest numbers have upward of 30% of
| people classed as Highly Sensitive (HSP), and 20% as low
| sensitivity. Most HSPs self-identify as 'introverts' unless
| some other label sticks first.
|
| So the dynamic I propose is that an HSP is going to out
| themselves for any other ways they're neurodivergent. ADHD
| people getting distracted by every background noise, every
| smell. Asperger's people hitting their limits and flaming
| out, and ADHD people hitting _their_ limits and flaming
| out, (in roughly chronological order).
|
| I suspect we will find the Venn diagram of HSP and adult
| diagnosis of ADHD/autism is going to be thin compared to
| child diagnosis (and unfortunately mostly female, because
| there's still a lot of internalized sexism around well
| behaved girls). Few have the coping mechanisms to escape
| notice.
| m463 wrote:
| I've also noticed that some people take complaining very
| personally. You have to be careful around those sensitive
| souls.
| totemandtoken wrote:
| A pragmatist is a realist is a pessimist is a nihilist is a
| pragmatist is a realist...
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