[HN Gopher] Previous: A NeXT Computer Emulator
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Previous: A NeXT Computer Emulator
Author : ecliptik
Score : 225 points
Date : 2023-03-20 05:21 UTC (17 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (previous.unixdude.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (previous.unixdude.net)
| ar9av wrote:
| My favorite old UNIX UIs are 4Dwm, Rhapsody, and NEXTSTEP's for
| sure. However I do think working in modern macOS is pretty nice;
| I honestly like the Ventura redesign a lot, though that may be an
| unpopular opinion(?).
| mattl wrote:
| I like Stage Manager, it brings back the single window mode
| from early versions of Mac OS X and removes the need for a
| defaults hack to get it working.
| bobochan wrote:
| I have not found it especially useful on my MBP, but it is a
| huge improvement for me on the iPad with keyboard and mouse.
| It feels much more natural now to have two windows open and
| quickly switch between apps. I used my iPad for about 80% of
| my work now, up from 10-15%.
| tambourine_man wrote:
| I hate it with a passion. Harder to user, less accessible and
| intuitive.
|
| It hurts me as the Mac is my main work tool and has been for
| almost 40 years. It's hard to watch it drift into stupidity.
| mistrial9 wrote:
| agree - it is the gravitational pull of iPhone revenues
| jhfdbkofdchk wrote:
| It's fine except for the Settings app.
| lockhouse wrote:
| As a frequent iPad user, I love the new settings app in
| Ventura.
|
| I can see though why long time Mac users would hate it
| though, it's a massive change and it moved everything.
| bluedino wrote:
| Do you think it's an improvement over the old one? Why?
| thesuitonym wrote:
| I think it is. The organization isn't quite right, and
| definitely needs to be worked on, but I like the sidebar
| approach.
| lockhouse wrote:
| I do just for consistency within the overall Apple
| ecosystem.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| For a user with the whole ecosystem, it is far more
| consistent with iPhone and iPad. From that angle it is so
| much better it is silly.
| pohl wrote:
| The old Settings UI was nice, but it had a really bad scaling
| problem as more preferences were added, making it badly
| organized. I like the new one, better, though it did come
| into the world roughly and still needs work.
|
| Mostly, though, I'm just happy that they're dog-fooding
| SwiftUI with it. I look forward to WWDC this year.
| garyrob wrote:
| Even the Settings app is OK with me... speaking as a Mac user
| (almost) continuously since the original Mac Plus (although I
| use Linux for servers):
|
| I really just couldn't care less about the change in the
| settings app. I usually typed something into the Spotlight
| search area to find what I wanted in the old version, and I
| do the same thing now. I just didn't have to change settings
| enough to have remembered their old locations.
| jonhohle wrote:
| I can't stand search in the settings app. The results are
| in decipherable to me. It seems like I get 15 results that
| have almost identical text and have to click through them
| to figure out which was the right one.
|
| Part of this extends from how Apple is implementing
| security. There are at Lear half a dozen security and
| accessibility options that all hide similar app lists.
| peepee1982 wrote:
| This kind of window decoration is my favorite, too.
|
| Modern UIs look more elegant. But I find it easier to
| conceptualize different contexts on my screen with thicker,
| embossed, brutal border indicators.
|
| I also simply like the aesthetics for their own sake.
| fsckboy wrote:
| > _However I do think working in modern macOS is pretty nice_
|
| I have hated the Mac interface from day 1, for very simple
| reasons:
|
| 1. I want my file-edit-windows menu on every window, not
| sharing the top of the screen (the whole promise of the
| personal computer was that I could have what I want, why can't
| I have this? fuck Jobs and Jony and anybody who substitutes
| their own preferences for yours and then claims to be a high
| priest)
|
| The reason is, I have multiple app windows open, and I
| routinely look from one app to another, and then I look where I
| want to click, simultaneously moving the mouse and clic... if
| my app does not have the focus, the whole eye and arm movement
| was a wasted expensive set of motions, now i'm even forgetting
| what I wanted to do while figuring out where I have to go click
| to get the focus moved.
|
| the icing on my UI cake is using focus-follows-mouse. I don't
| require it, but I like it and it is antithetical to the one-
| size-fits-all everybody-must-conform Apple way.
|
| 2. I want a three button mouse. period. I don't want to learn
| gestures, click in special places, and I don't want my
| different OSes to be different in ways that don't need to be.
| Would it really hurt Apple's feelings if I could have menus
| where i want them? Yeah, and if you like where Apple's menus
| are, why can't you have them? UX designers are so narrow in
| their thinking.
|
| The whole promise of personal computers was... F J & J
| kirbyfan64sos wrote:
| Worth noting that, from what I gathered, a lot of dislike
| towards Ventura's new UI is often less the style and more just
| various inconsistencies / strange behavior in their execution
| of it.
| SllX wrote:
| The new criticisms directed at Ventura are less about the
| style because the style criticisms date back to Big Sur and
| have been talked to death. The lack of contrast and the over-
| generous menu spacing isn't any better today than it was in
| November 2020.
| Smrchy wrote:
| I am looking for a way to run Lotus Improv - which was a cool
| piece of software back then. Did anybody get this to run?
| spitfire wrote:
| Yes, improv and lighthouse design quantrix (a pixel perfect
| clone after lotus killed improv) work fine in previous.
|
| Quantrix is also a fat binary so you can run it on x86 nextstep
| or openstep under in a vm.
| csdvrx wrote:
| I've head about improv and I'd like to try it (or quantrix)
|
| How would you start it in this emulator?
| soferio wrote:
| https://youtu.be/BpMODQBdTBE
|
| Retrospective partly about NeXt with Steve Jobs.
| stevedekorte wrote:
| Can someone get this running on the Web with WASM?
| itomato wrote:
| It can also boot Plan9 over the network from another Previous
| instance, if you're into that.
| spitfire wrote:
| For anyone wondering nextcomputers.org has the necessary rom
| files available in their file section.-
|
| Along with just about all the public ally available software ever
| made. It's really a treasure trove.
| lockhouse wrote:
| Thank you! Any recommendation on the best one to use with
| Previous? It looks like it supports a lot of models.
| spitfire wrote:
| I mean the ultimate model is either a turbo cube with
| dimension board, or a turbo colour station.
|
| The turbo cube dimension had dual monitors (one colour one
| bw) in 1989 which was cool. Myself I just run a turbocolour
| station.
| azinman2 wrote:
| On mobile I just get a splash and that's it. Is there something
| more to this?
| fortran77 wrote:
| Turn the phone 90 degrees
| vandahm wrote:
| On desktop, you can use the top navigation to get to the
| substance of the site. On mobile, it hides the nav so you can't
| see it. Try these:
|
| https://previous.unixdude.net/about.html
|
| https://previous.unixdude.net/screenshots.html
|
| https://previous.unixdude.net/download.html
|
| https://previous.unixdude.net/version-history.html
| saagarjha wrote:
| You can tap in the top right to get the menu.
| vandahm wrote:
| > For running Previous you need a copy of the NeXT ROM.
|
| I have an old NeXT machine that works and has NeXTstep running on
| it. How can I extract the ROM from it and use it to run this
| emulator?
| Quequau wrote:
| If you don't already have a device for reading and writing
| EPROMs it's probably easier to just download ROM images from
| the internet.
| garganzol wrote:
| Just take a look at the buttons in window title bars - they have
| box shape with a very distinguishable 3D effect. NeXT design
| language was evidently borrowed by Windows 95. Which is a good
| thing, I still miss that level of clarity.
| guessbest wrote:
| It looks like windows got rid of the shaft of the arrow with
| the change from win 3.0 to win 95.
|
| https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/1/20943552/scroll-bar-visua...
| xattt wrote:
| If the photo shows the intended layout of the workstation, NeXT
| seems terrible for ergonomics.
|
| Too much looking around the corner to see what you're typing.
| gjvc wrote:
| don't worry, it doesn't. They did advertising better back then.
| Aldipower wrote:
| I laughed out hard. :-D Thanks for that.
| homarp wrote:
| previously discussions
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19084769
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8745943
|
| this forum is where the dev discussion is happening
| http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/index.php?topic=2642.0
| xigency wrote:
| Thank you for the previous Previous discussions. Im looking
| forward to the next Previous NeXT computer discussion.
| rbanffy wrote:
| Am I the only one disheartened not to find a Git repo?
| itomato wrote:
| They use SVN, and some of us have had various git forks going
| for some time.
|
| I have two for example, one to patch the old Harari UI with
| proper font and color, and two more which package Previous for
| Raspberry Pi; one via Debian and one with Buildroot.
| pmarreck wrote:
| Where would I find a version I might be able to run on NixOS?
|
| (If I have to write a nix file to build it, that's fine as
| long as it's a fairly standard build process.)
| itomato wrote:
| Here are the build instructions:
| http://previous.alternative-system.com/index.php/build
| snvzz wrote:
| You're not the only one.
| balaji1 wrote:
| please be a browser based emulator :fingers_crossed:
| saagarjha wrote:
| It's not browser based...but with the magic of WebAssembly it
| should be possible to make it so.
| cbmuser wrote:
| That's not the proper homepage, this is:
|
| > http://previous.alternative-system.com/
|
| Also, the homepage at unixdude.net is not distributing the
| sources which is a GPL license violation.
| suprjami wrote:
| Have you asked for the sources? GPL does not require proactive
| distribution, that's just the common way people avoid handling
| many individual requests.
| ixtli wrote:
| Not gonna lie: i upvoted this for the name :)
| lol_catz wrote:
| I'm still running windowmaker
| pmarreck wrote:
| OK so I have windowmaker running on nixos but some windows such
| as Firefox can't be dragged by the titlebar, only resized. What
| do??
|
| other questions: sometimes right-click for context menu
| requires a click and hold, other times it doesn't.
| configurable?
| TazeTSchnitzel wrote:
| I dream of getting a PlayStation 2 Linux kit and setting up the
| GUI. I believe that was the default desktop environment!
| nunodonato wrote:
| every couple of years I go back to check how's
| windowmaker/gnustep. Too bad the progress seems to have stalled
| and the support for some modern features is lacking, I would
| definitely be open to give it a go again
| pmarreck wrote:
| I just noticed I can install this on NixOS. NixStep, here we
| come!!
| bbarnett wrote:
| Heh! I ran the same for the first decade of Linux use.
|
| Now I am sad.
| formvoltron wrote:
| where the ROM at?
| richrichardsson wrote:
| No one is going to point you directly at "warez", but it's
| really not difficult to find them yourself.
| formvoltron wrote:
| Anyone out there defending NeXT ROMs? Anyway you are right...
| easy to find.
| richrichardsson wrote:
| I got told off on here for using Amiga ROMs that I had
| downloaded, despite the fact I own several Amigas!
| snvzz wrote:
| The shills for the rats that are fighting for AmigaOS
| rights are the worst.
|
| They pop up in every forum.
|
| Reminder any and all money given to these rats ends up in
| lawyers hands[0]. They don't even pay the developers.
|
| 0. https://sites.google.com/site/amigadocuments/
| mistrial9 wrote:
| that happened in the last Mac OS9 days too.. lawyers as a
| small company who took customer money and did not pay
| developers, but continued to solicit.
| itomato wrote:
| Build your own ROMs
|
| https://github.com/itomato/NeXTROM
| tyingq wrote:
| Searching Google for the quoted phrase _" NeXT Inc.'s line of
| hardware it includes ROMs"_ might be helpful.
| ConanRus wrote:
| [dead]
| [deleted]
| speed_spread wrote:
| Should have been PrEV.
| sumtechguy wrote:
| nice!
|
| I think that MAME also has a NeXT emulation in it as well. Not
| sure how far along it is though. Think they had it booting most
| of the basic demo stuff but I could be confusing it with
| another bit of hw they had recently got running.
| gattilorenz wrote:
| That's indeed what's on the logo:
| https://previous.unixdude.net/images/prev-logo.png
| electroly wrote:
| The logo is "PReV". OP asked for "PrEV".
|
| I think OP is wrong and the logo is better with the same
| lowercase "e" as the original NeXT logo, even though it's in
| a different place in the logo, but different strokes for
| different folks.
| gattilorenz wrote:
| Nice, I didn't realize the issue could be how it's
| capitalized, thanks for pointing it out
| pjerem wrote:
| Good luck for seo but I like the name :)
| sgt wrote:
| For a second I was looking at the Previous Screenshots and
| thought: Well, I want to see the current ones. Where.. oh..
| eatmyshorts wrote:
| Does it also emulate the wickedly slow I/O times of the CD/RW
| drive (er, Canon Magento Optical drive, apparently)? I seem to
| recall waiting really long for anything to read or write to that
| thing, despite the wonder of having a CD that I could erase, with
| 660MB of storage.
| TomMasz wrote:
| Is there any real documentation? I have NeXT ROMs but no matter
| which one I use it crashes immediately.
| BoardsOfCanada wrote:
| So what OS does this emulator run on? Windows, macOS, Linux?
| saagarjha wrote:
| Definitely works on macOS, I think Linux too. It's SDL-based.
| squarefoot wrote:
| From the archive structure it appears MacOS only; I can't test
| it however.
| sedatk wrote:
| I wish it was capitalized as PReViouS or were just called PReV.
| :)
| pmarreck wrote:
| Just a Mac app? It doesn't even say anywhere on the page that
| it's Mac-limited. I wanted a Linux version...
| Maursault wrote:
| > It doesn't even say anywhere on the page that it's Mac-
| limited.
|
| Where does it say macOS? I see no mention of any supported
| platform.
|
| FWIW the x86 version of OPENSTEP 4.2 has been running in
| virtual machines for some time.[1][2] Previous emulates the
| NeXT hardware and Motorola processor, and maybe some are
| interested in that. Personally, I'm really not, but it's an
| interesting use of emulation (which really only becomes useful
| when emulating a current platform on another, such as x86 on
| Apple Silicon or vice versa).
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAF0xdIiI20 [VirtualBox
| tutorial]
|
| [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVCxfoG8bv4 [VMWare
| Tutorial]
| pmarreck wrote:
| > Where does it say macOS? I see no mention of any supported
| platform.
|
| That was exactly my point when I said:
|
| > It doesn't even say anywhere on the page that it's Mac-
| limited
|
| It says nothing about the OS it runs on, which IMHO is lame.
| Maursault wrote:
| > That was exactly my point when I said:
|
| > > > It doesn't even say anywhere on the page that it's
| Mac-limited
|
| If I said "it doesn't say anywhere that it only runs on
| OS/400," then this implies that it stated somewhere that
| the software runs on OS/400 just as your statement implies
| it runs on Mac. Where did you get Mac from in the first
| place if the about doesn't mention it?
| dfox wrote:
| Last week I've spent some time trying to make OpenStep run in
| qemu, but gave up after few hours. Apparently there is some
| incompatibility with how qemu emulates CD drive.
| Simplicitas wrote:
| Was expecting this to leverage QEMU
| rcarmo wrote:
| In case you want to have a NeXT-like experience on Linux, I've
| had good fun with NEXTSPACE:
|
| - https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace
|
| Alas, the developer is Ukrainian, and hasn't committed anything
| in a long while. But maybe someone could help out?
| nickhodge wrote:
| I think the western world is sending all its spare munitions as
| we speak.
| rebolek wrote:
| Unfortunately, not enough ammunition.
| prmoustache wrote:
| Like NsCDE [1], these kinds of old school environments are nice
| an all until you fire up a modern browser or an app made for
| Gnome and you end up in a kind of aesthetic mess.
|
| [1] https://github.com/NsCDE/NsCDE
| squarefoot wrote:
| Also Windowmaker. I have been using it for years back in the
| day, and just to be sure reinstalled it a few minutes ago to
| check how it behaves today: no problems whatsoever with
| Firefox, LibreOffice, Gimp, Handbrake, and other modern apps.
| Using it right now to write this post with Firefox, in fact.
| Not that I didn't expect it to work since the last stable
| version is dated 2020 and the GitHub repo is quite active
| (last update 3 days ago).
|
| Nostalgia aside (I was lucky enough to attend a real NeXT
| demonstration in 1994/1995) WindowMaker has been literally a
| life saver over 20 years ago when I had to build a desktop
| for ~50 remote points of sale in which the operator could
| only perform a few tasks, and setting up it as a locked
| "kiosk on steroids" with a fixed dock that could open only
| the 4-5 needed apps allowed them to do their jobs without
| distractions or exposing the unnecessary/dangerous parts of
| the system.
|
| https://www.windowmaker.org/
|
| https://github.com/window-maker/wmaker
| incanus77 wrote:
| I used WM actively in the late 90s as my primary. I still
| put it on any Pi or things like that that I need a quick
| desktop for. So clean.
| guenthert wrote:
| A buddy of mine had a NeXTstation in '90 (or '91, memory
| fades). Sure it was nice, I mean _really_ nice. The reason
| I wasn 't completely blown off my socks was only that we
| observed the Amiga in '85 (a common friend even had one).
| For us youngsters those five years seemed like a long time
| and the progress was expected. DOS/Windows seemed like a
| regression to us. I'm sure these days the juniors wonder
| why we geezers bother with Linux and not use Android
| instead ...
| jksmith wrote:
| Yeah I saw a NeXT demo in same time frame at Atl Comdex.
| That display postscript was coolio.
| prmoustache wrote:
| Not saying it doesn't work. Just saying that the whole
| aesthetic is very easily ruined by a few apps.
| jandrese wrote:
| Windowmaker is my go-to on systems where there is no
| hardware acceleration so they get bogged down with anything
| trying to do compositing.
| pharaohgeek wrote:
| I really liked CDE on my Solaris x86 box when I was in
| college. I'd love to see a "modernized" version of it. Modern
| renderers w/acceleration, slightly updated UI but keeping
| with the general feel of CDE, etc. I love macOS, but there's
| something about the old Irix or CDE environments that made
| you feel like you were "working" and not just using the same
| old computer as everyone else.
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| Xfce + a GTK theme that mimics CDE is probably a good
| option: https://github.com/B00merang-Project/Solaris-9 I
| couldn't get this theme to work on a modern gnome/GTK4
| environment, sadly, but suspect it would still work with
| something GTK3 like xfce.
| jwrallie wrote:
| I think you touched the real problem here, there are many
| telented people willing to work on great GTK themes, but
| it's really hard to maintain themes when gnome is
| changing the API all the time... So most people give up.
| HeckFeck wrote:
| We have hope on the horizon. The Ladybird browser won't look
| so out of place on classic UIs when it reaches maturity.
| jim180 wrote:
| yeah, last commit was a day before Russia invaded Ukraine
| again.
| zanethomas wrote:
| This might be a previously unknown bit of NeXT and Windows
| history.
|
| While Windows 3 was in development I was in the next building
| working on os/2. (not bragging <g>)
|
| I spent a lot of time in a lab that had a lot of hardware. One
| day a NeXT machine showed up in the lab.
|
| The next day there was a line of Windows developers waiting for
| their chance too look at it. (we'll forget the fun I had grabbing
| a screen shot of the desktop which i then left displayed full
| screen)
|
| It was a mere matter of days before a build of Windows with 3d
| buttons came out, and the rest is more history.
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(page generated 2023-03-20 23:01 UTC)