[HN Gopher] Nations reach accord to protect marine life on high ...
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       Nations reach accord to protect marine life on high seas
        
       Author : acdanger
       Score  : 151 points
       Date   : 2023-03-19 20:07 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (apnews.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (apnews.com)
        
       | O__________O wrote:
       | Sorry, but unless there's an actual link to the agreement, list
       | of countries bound to it, and significant meaningful timely means
       | of enforcement-- this is meaningless.
       | 
       | As far as I'm concerned, all harvesting or harming of wildlife
       | sea or otherwise needs to stop. If a country or individual
       | refuses to agree, should either be a life sentence or act of war.
       | People are unable to handle any rule based systems other than
       | black and white, zero impact.
       | 
       | China, US, Japan, etc - regardless of what they say, will never
       | stop until sea, land, and air no longer has wildlife.
        
         | Avicebron wrote:
         | That's one way to speedrun war with all of asia simultaneously
        
           | O__________O wrote:
           | War is irrelevant. No country is going to agree to cease
           | impacting, harvesting, etc wildlife. It's to hard to monitor,
           | enforce, predict, etc wildlife harvesting.
           | 
           | I am not saying humanity needs to protect wildlife because it
           | is the "nice thing" to do, saying it because I sincerely
           | believe Earth and humanity need's wildlife to have a
           | habitable planet; anyone is welcome to feel free to explain
           | how this is wrong.
        
             | PradeetPatel wrote:
             | The cynic in me says that long term habitability of the
             | planet have very little impact on the quarterly revenue of
             | most corporations.
             | 
             | If business school taught me anything, is that the only
             | revenue that matters to execs is the quarterly one.
        
       | NegativeLatency wrote:
       | Although a step in the right direction, without restrictions on
       | commercial fishing it feels like lip service.
        
         | melling wrote:
         | https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/09/26/world/asia/ch...
         | 
         | "With its own coastal waters depleted, China has built a global
         | fishing operation unmatched by any other country."
        
           | dirtyid wrote:
           | >unmatched by any other country
           | 
           | The worlds largest country with largest ship construction
           | capability has the biggest fleet.
           | 
           | PRC distant fleet _underfishes_ per capita, especially
           | relative to JP (3X more than PRC), SKR & ES (7x), TW (30x ~).
           | All with their own subsidies and suspicious behaviours in
           | others EEZs. At end of day, PRC with 1/5 of world population
           | and relatively small EEZ is entitled to fish in international
           | waters. Like emissions, it's the per capita that matters.
           | 
           | Entire PRC overfishing propaganda is US driven narrative to
           | forward deploy coast guards against PRC interests. There's a
           | reason why these articles never headlines with US east asian
           | partners being significantly worst overfishers. In the
           | meantime, no reason PRC fishermen or consumers should take a
           | hit until others cut down to PRC levels.
        
             | Avicebron wrote:
             | Per capita doesn't matter in this context, because the
             | earth isn't infinitely expanding resource wise, it's the
             | net removed at any given time that matters.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | zabzonk wrote:
       | > The question now is how well the ambitious treaty will be
       | implemented.
       | 
       | and enforced? seens pretty worthless to me, though the intent is
       | good.
        
       | mb7733 wrote:
       | Article is too light on details to discuss much but for anyone
       | interested in this issue I highly recommend the podcast "The
       | Outlaw Ocean". While it's not solely focused on ecological
       | issues, the general theme is that enforcement of any laws or
       | treaties in international waters is very difficult. Out of 7
       | episodes at least 2 or 3 are focused on illegal fishing.
        
       | impalallama wrote:
       | Hopefully more news is forthcoming as to whats in the treaty and
       | how it might be enforced. The article is basically just a press
       | release saying it happened.
        
       | chiefalchemist wrote:
       | > The question now is how well the ambitious treaty will be
       | implemented.
       | 
       | Third paragraph from the end? Talk about a buried lede.
       | 
       | This feels very similar to the Paris Climate Agreement. That is,
       | lots of talk. Lots of agreement. But nothing binding. More faux
       | progress.
       | 
       | Sad to say, typical.
        
       | logicalmonster wrote:
       | What exactly is the nature of this agreement? This article didn't
       | really go into anything resembling detail.
       | 
       | Offhand, I'd love to be proven wrong (because this is an
       | environmental issue that IMO is far more important and
       | demonstrably real than the other thing) but I cannot imagine that
       | certain countries (who cannot be named) would ever agree to a
       | genuine agreement in this space.
        
       | klyrs wrote:
       | Precious few details here. Great news, diplomats made an
       | agreement! If this is like every other treaty I've prematurely
       | gotten excited about, those diplomats don't have legislative
       | authority, and each needs to return home to get the treaties
       | ratified by their respective legislatures. And after that, it's
       | up to each member nation to pass and enforce legislation to back
       | that up. And in this case that _does_ mean fighting pirates on
       | the high seas. In 20 years, we 'll look back and see that little,
       | no, or most likely, negative progress has been made. But hey, you
       | can ask chatgpt how it feels today. Sigh.
        
       | OtomotO wrote:
       | Awesome! Another accord that can be ignored just like all the
       | others that came before!
       | 
       | I love bureaucracy and diplomacy... They make us look so
       | productive while once in a while real change comes along.
       | 
       | Forgive my pessimism, but I've seen too many international
       | accords that haven't been worth the paper they were printed on
       | (with loads of media coverage and fanfare) during my lifetime.
        
         | KarlKemp wrote:
         | That's just mindless contrarianism. There are plenty of
         | successes of international cooperation. Of the top of my head:
         | protection of the arctic and Antarctic, restrictions in the
         | trade of ivory, tropical woods, big-game hunting (and trophies)
         | etc. Lots of fishery agreements, nuclear testing ban, standards
         | for offshore oil drilling, double-hull tankers etc.
         | 
         | That's just the tip of the iceberg and only wrt the
         | environment. EU and NAFTA are also international agreements
         | that have teeth, as is the Berne convention on copyright (even
         | if you don't like it). Unicode is the UN in action as is the
         | boat that will pick you up if you happen to get stranded on a
         | deserted island (and have the necessary, and standardized,
         | beacon). If you're a Mongolian in a Mexican jail or a Mexican
         | in a Mongolian jail, your embassy will be informed and allowed
         | to render legal support, thanks to an international agreement
         | to that effect. If you're being subjected to cluster munitions,
         | your foe is one of the few people on earth that wouldn't enjoy
         | a trip to the Netherlands. If you find yourself being
         | extradited to The Hague, the plane you're traveling on will
         | conform to internationally agreed safety standards.
        
           | weq wrote:
           | The phenom is called "Paper Parks", Costa Rica for instance
           | leads the world in eco washing / fisheries corruption.
           | 
           | https://octogroup.org/news/paper-parks-why-they-happen-
           | and-w...
           | 
           | https://www.cremacr.org/en/new-report-finds-costa-rica-is-
           | fa...
        
         | badrabbit wrote:
         | Would you instead favor starting a war over this? Because this
         | is reality, accords and treaties are tools of diplomacy and
         | they are binding, you can sue other nations or implement other
         | measures against them as a collective of signatories where
         | without the accord you would act unilaterally and without
         | cause.
         | 
         | I think you, like many, mistakenly assume that there is some
         | law or authority over all nations.
        
         | exq wrote:
         | Montreal Protocol worked.
        
           | mrangle wrote:
           | The Montreal Protocol didn't require military enforcement.
           | This will. And this is its significance.
        
           | voisin wrote:
           | Anything else since 1987?
        
       | ar9av wrote:
       | All the billions of lobsters dead and mass die off of species
       | around the world the next few years as the planet heats up within
       | the next 7 years is breathtaking.
       | 
       | Atlantic Ocean current is struggling to stay currenting. Honestly
       | looks like the tides around the world will change from the warmer
       | climates .. and now to tack onto this methane is starting to
       | creep up as the #1 reason of planetary changes due to ice melting
       | around the globe.. The world is in a scary estate over the next
       | few years as we make the changes to renewable energy resources.
       | Some are to ignorant to change until we have mass starvation
       | periods in the next few years. Than what?
        
         | abraae wrote:
         | > Than what?
         | 
         | Optimistic view: the populace wakes the fuck up and demands
         | that the madness stops, and we introduce carbon taxes.
         | 
         | Pessimistic view: the populace decides that any cut to their
         | consumption and lifestyle is unacceptable and gets behind geo
         | engineering in a big way. Next thing we are pumping new stuff
         | into the atmosphere at one place to shield us from the sun,
         | while at the same time pumping in ever increasing amouts of
         | methane and CO2 thanks to moral hazard.
         | 
         | Left field view: A nuclear war wipes out a large part of the
         | population, and the planet breathes a sight of relief.
        
         | imiric wrote:
         | Exactly. Protecting the largest animals won't matter in a few
         | years when all the corals and microfauna disappear due to ocean
         | warming, triggering devastating chain effects in all
         | ecosystems.
         | 
         | I'm not sure if I've watched too many science documentaries,
         | but the future looks grim from any standpoint. Even if this
         | accord is upheld and protects the largest species, I'm afraid
         | it's too little, too late to stop the environmental
         | catastrophe.
         | 
         | The only thing that might slow things down is if we very
         | aggressively stop burning fossil fuels. This is a political and
         | economic problem that everyone needs to agree on, yet we can't
         | even stop killing each other, so I'm not that hopeful.
        
       | bombolo wrote:
       | Will japan fish less? If not, useless.
        
       | darth_avocado wrote:
       | We don't need an international accord, we need the top 10
       | countries to stop pillaging the international waters for their
       | consumption. The top 10, mostly Asian countries consume more
       | seafood than the next 50. And these countries are also the ones
       | that are most likely to fish in the most damaging way possible
       | with no sustainability in mind.
        
         | hristov wrote:
         | Uhh that's why we need an international accord.
        
           | PradeetPatel wrote:
           | That, lets not underestimate the necessity for education and
           | awareness.
           | 
           | There is only one ocean on planet earth and we all need to do
           | our part to protect its ecosystem.
        
       | suddenclarity wrote:
       | Did a quick Google search and found this:
       | 
       | > The treaty does not regulate fishing on the high seas, which is
       | managed by other international organizations.
       | 
       | This treaty seems to more about plastic and climate.
        
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       (page generated 2023-03-19 23:00 UTC)