[HN Gopher] 'Catch Me If You Can' conman lied about his lifetime...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       'Catch Me If You Can' conman lied about his lifetime of lies
        
       Author : Teever
       Score  : 153 points
       Date   : 2023-03-19 17:44 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (nypost.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (nypost.com)
        
       | olivermarks wrote:
       | Abagale would make a perfect US politician, major league
       | bullshitter who sticks to his stories for gain.
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/vsMydMDi3rI
        
         | unsupp0rted wrote:
         | This is the equivalent to that Simpsons joke in which they
         | install a robotic radio DJ that says "looks like those clowns
         | in congress did it again. What a-bunch of clowns" and the guy
         | getting replaced asks "how does it keep up with the news like
         | that?".
         | 
         | It's a low-effort drive-by statement so generic as to be
         | practically meaningless.
        
         | olivermarks wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | yodon wrote:
           | Frequently HN readers will downvote comments that don't
           | bother to explain why the viewer should invest time in
           | reading or watching an unexplained link.
        
             | grogenaut wrote:
             | Agreed... People also downvote people who just complain
             | about the voting system without reading the basics on
             | "don't talk about voting" in the guide
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Please
             | don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does
             | any good, and it makes boring reading. "
        
             | olivermarks wrote:
             | That's fair - the link is Abigale speaking at Google in
             | 2017. There's a disclaimer as the first frames of the video
             | but it's still up.
        
       | legerdemain wrote:
       | The story of the janitor who invented Flamin' Hot Cheetos is also
       | either an exaggeration so big as to be meaningless, or a
       | straight-up lie.
        
       | scheeseman486 wrote:
       | Everyone here posting about how it sucks that it turns out he
       | lied about all the cool stuff he did, when the significance and
       | impact of those lies pale in comparison to the societal impact a
       | Steven Spielberg directed film based on those lies had.
       | 
       | It just makes it all the more impressive!
        
       | wmf wrote:
       | He wrote an apology of sorts in 2002 admitting that the book and
       | movie are not accurate: https://www.abagnale.com/Frank-W-
       | Abagnale-Jr-Film-And-Book-C... This hasn't stopped him from
       | cashing in on his reputation, however.
        
       | Lapsa wrote:
       | so a man claiming that he lies all the time turns out to be
       | lying. did I get that correct? :/
        
         | jjeaff wrote:
         | Perhaps disavowing all his previous lies is his last big con?
         | 
         | Kidding aside, I think investigative journalists have been the
         | ones to sound the alarm on the con.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | If he lies about being a liar, does that mean he is telling the
         | truth?
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | aptly metacircular
        
       | silisili wrote:
       | Good article, but this was pretty well known and documented for
       | years if not decades. I remember briefly looking it up not too
       | long after having seen the movie, and being disappointed that it
       | was all a big lie.
        
       | jbverschoor wrote:
       | Well whaddayaknow, the conman lied :O
        
       | aleksandrm wrote:
       | This has been known for years. Why are tabloid articles suddenly
       | reposted here?
        
         | notahacker wrote:
         | It being "common knowledge" that 90% of his backstory is
         | fictional and he was actually a pretty low end forger that was
         | frequently caught until he figured lying about the lies he told
         | was a better grift hasn't stopped the tech industry from
         | continuing to fawn all over him as if he's a knowledgeable and
         | inspirational person
         | 
         | e.g
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22042279
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15793045
        
         | jjulius wrote:
         | >This has been known for years.
         | 
         | I used to do this. Still have a strong tendency to, and have to
         | resist it. Everyone's lived experience is different, and I'd
         | wager there is a large percentage of people across the globe
         | alive now who have never, and will never, have any clue about
         | Frank Abagnale and his story.
         | 
         | And that's okay.
        
         | WheatMillington wrote:
         | I'm just learning about it today from this post, which I found
         | fascinating.
         | 
         | https://xkcd.com/1053/
        
       | Dig1t wrote:
       | This reminds me of the story from A Scanner Darkly. One of the
       | characters tells a story about a con artist who was pretending to
       | be a famous con artist. His whole shtick was going around to talk
       | shows recounting how he had played all these outlandish
       | characters and conned people out of all kinds of money, in the
       | end the only character he ever played was that of a con artist.
       | 
       | Maybe that story was based on the Catch Me If you Can guy, but I
       | think possibly not because A Scanner Darkly came out before that
       | movie.
        
         | 2-718-281-828 wrote:
         | sounds like a generic idea and also why would should dick or
         | linklater have had knowledge about abagnale being a fake con
         | man?
        
         | allenu wrote:
         | Apparently the autobiography the movie is based on came out in
         | 1980, so it's totally possible they were referencing Abagnale.
        
           | htag wrote:
           | The novel A Scanner Darkly was published in 1977, so while it
           | might have been referencing Abagnale it wasn't referencing
           | the autobiography.
           | 
           | Social identity being exaggeratedly fluid is a reoccurring
           | theme in PKD's writing, so the topic fits.
        
       | diego_moita wrote:
       | Of course, what makes you famous is how good is your "reality
       | distortion field". No one buys "facts", people buy "stories".
       | 
       | Steve Jobs never really invented anything but he knew how to play
       | the role.
       | 
       | "The Wolf of Wall Street" also invented most of the stuff in the
       | movie/book but he knew how to play the role.
       | 
       | Buffalo Bill was just an exhibitionist showman that never did
       | anything heroic but he knew how to pretend it.
       | 
       | And Paris Hilton, Kim Kardashian, ...
       | 
       | Well, you got the idea...
        
         | foobarbecue wrote:
         | And, of course, the movie The Wolf of Wall Street is another
         | good example -- it managed to con everybody into treating it
         | like a good movie when it was ridiculous ahistorical junk that
         | taught nothing, glorified crime, denigrated victims, and then
         | was found to have been funded by grift (money siphoned from the
         | Malaysan development fund 1MDB).
         | 
         | To this day, I use it as a litmus test -- if someone recommends
         | a movie to me, I'll ask them what they thought of The Wolf of
         | Wall Street. If they liked it, I will steer clear of any of
         | their recommendations.
        
           | foobarbecue wrote:
           | [flagged]
        
             | kruuuder wrote:
             | I downvoted your comments because your comments trigger
             | emotions, whereas good comments trigger curiosity. It
             | sounds like you call everyone that liked that movie an
             | idiot with no taste (I haven't seen the movie by the way).
             | Now you even edited your second comment to say "Cowardly
             | downvoters", which is a reason to flag it.
        
               | foobarbecue wrote:
               | Thanks for the explanation; that's fair. I'm being
               | polemic, probably too much so. My hatred for the movie is
               | intense and it would be better communication if I could
               | hide that.
        
               | colineartheta wrote:
               | I also downvoted, and it's honestly because your point
               | comes across as not understanding any of Martin
               | Scorsese's direction and body of work. Nearly all of his
               | movies (primarily, mobster and crime related) are
               | centered around characters and stories of wealth, excess,
               | and the blatant flouting of rules and law in order to
               | obtain power, followed by their near immediate downfall
               | and loss of everything that truly matters. The Wolf of
               | Wall Street, the movie, isn't about the glorification of
               | wealth: it's about the vapidity and shallowness of that
               | component of human nature and the ultimate self
               | destruction and meaningless of life when it's pursued.
               | Someone can recommend that movie because they appreciate
               | that moral and sentiment, not because they want to be a
               | conman investment banker (or a gangster for that matter).
        
               | foobarbecue wrote:
               | Maybe I should try some more Scorsese. Which movie do you
               | recommend? I'll make an exception to my rule for the
               | purpose of education :-)
               | 
               | If he was attempting to do what you describe with TWWS, I
               | think he missed the mark. It seemed to express a a
               | general nihilism rather than some message about how
               | criminals ruin their own lives.
               | 
               | Things that would have made the movie better, in my eyes:
               | 
               | - At least one female character who was more than an
               | object (Bechdel test was failed by a mile)
               | 
               | - Any scene with the perspective of any of the victims
               | (the people whose lives Belfort destroyed are totally out
               | of frame all movie)
               | 
               | - If Belfort's supposedly convincing / charismatic
               | speeches were even slightly persuasive or entertaining
               | (he did not sell me that pen at all)
               | 
               | - Less time wasted with blurry camera stumbling around on
               | drugs
               | 
               | The funny thing is that I loved Catch Me if You Can when
               | I first saw it and went to see TWWS hoping for more of
               | that. So... maybe TWWS was more real. Crime does pay, and
               | financial criminals are not geniuses, just bog-standard
               | douchebags, and they get a slap on the wrist when they're
               | caught and the world keeps spinning. Perhaps THAT is the
               | message.
        
               | foobarbecue wrote:
               | I'll also say that I didn't mean to imply they were
               | idiots with no taste -- I meant that they are people
               | whose cinema tastes are very different from mine. It's a
               | shortcut for finding that out.
        
             | BLKNSLVR wrote:
             | I enjoyed the movie but I also don't treat it like it's any
             | kind of replication of reality. Like almost anything
             | Hollywood puts out alongside the "based on actual events"
             | clickbait.
             | 
             | The funding of the movie is also incredibly interesting, I
             | think there was an episode of Netflix's Dirty Money based
             | on that. Worth a watch.
             | 
             | (I upvoted original comment because it didn't deserve the
             | very light grey text that it was)
        
         | heywhatupboys wrote:
         | > Steve Jobs never really invented anything but he knew how to
         | play the role.
         | 
         | this is an absurd suggestion. Steve Jobs has been a pioneer in
         | making computing ubiquitous
        
           | foobarbecue wrote:
           | pioneer != inventor
        
             | peyton wrote:
             | He's listed as inventor on hundreds of patents. I think
             | that qualifies.
        
               | PretzelPirate wrote:
               | Its not surprising that Jobs would be included on patents
               | that were filed by people who worked for or with him. He
               | was known to be mean and pushy and could easily force his
               | name to be included.
               | 
               | Do we know of one thing that Jobs actually invented or
               | co-invented, or was he always the marketer?
        
               | illiarian wrote:
               | > He was known to be mean and pushy and could easily
               | force his name to be included.
               | 
               | He was also very closely involved with every aspect of
               | the products Apple was developing. Just watch any of his
               | interviews. He knew all the details: technical, design,
               | marketing.
               | 
               | So yeah, I'm not surprised he has his name on patents.
        
               | zaroth wrote:
               | Hundreds of things. Peyton just told you that. But you
               | like the idea of Jobs being a "conman" better than the
               | truth so why disabuse you of the notion?
               | 
               | In case you're wondering, filing a patent with an
               | improperly listed inventor is fraud and invalidates the
               | patent. Every patent app includes a signed oath and
               | declaration by the inventors that they did indeed invent
               | it.
               | 
               | The idea that Jobs didn't have direct input on the
               | functionality of novel features of Apple products is
               | beyond absurd.
               | 
               | Aside from the fact that he was notoriously hands-on,
               | Apple has been coasting on his achievements and direction
               | for over a decade now.
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | Look at the post-Jobs Apple. It's just been step-wise
               | refinement.
        
             | pohl wrote:
             | If you're going to make that distinction, shouldn't you
             | also cite quotations where Jobs makes the claim to
             | specifically be the inventor? It seems the charge in this
             | thread depends on blurring that boundary such that
             | marketing on behalf of the company on stage and in
             | interviews is equated with claims of being an inventor.
        
               | foobarbecue wrote:
               | Nobody said he claimed he was an inventor. I think we all
               | agree that he was a pioneer, but not an inventor.
               | 
               | Recap (paraphrased):
               | 
               | "Jobs never invented anything"
               | 
               | "He was a pioneer"
               | 
               | "pioneer != inventor"
               | 
               | "You have to show proof that he claimed he was an
               | inventor!"
               | 
               | "Nobody said he claimed he was an inventor."
        
               | pohl wrote:
               | It was said above that he was "playing the role" of being
               | an inventor, and this observation was directly juxtaposed
               | against a con man.
        
               | foobarbecue wrote:
               | Ah, I see. Yeah, I wouldn't accuse him of that.
               | 
               | I was taking the "reality distortion field" talk to refer
               | to the cultlike status Job's fandom reached at its peak,
               | where the "famous for being famous" effect came into
               | play. I don't think he qualifies as a con man, and I
               | don't think he claimed personal credit for the inventions
               | of others (he never "took the initiative and invented the
               | internet" like Al Gore).
        
         | graeme wrote:
         | >Steve Jobs never really invented anything but he knew how to
         | play the role.
         | 
         | You're of course getting engagement here. But the key
         | difference is this: Abgnale outputted nothing.
         | 
         | Steve Jobs outputted Apple, Pixar and Next (basis of Macos and
         | iOS).
         | 
         | You can quibble over what share of what credit for the specific
         | products of each of those three companies. But there's no
         | disputing Next wouldn't have existed without him, nor Apple,
         | and Apple would have failed without him. Pixar had been
         | declined by 45 other investors; only Jobs said yes. So it
         | likely would not have got off the ground without him.
         | 
         | Everyone involved in the output of those companies speaks
         | highly of him and ascribe him a vital role. Key competitors do
         | the same.
         | 
         | Your argument amounts to say:
         | 
         | 1. He had a well known reality distortion field
         | 
         | 2. Therefore he accomplished nothing and everyone who was there
         | on the ground is wrong, for they were subject to this field
         | 
         | 3. All of the output of those companies happened, no thanks to
         | Jobs.
        
           | rowanG077 wrote:
           | Huh? What about his autobiography. Or the movie? I find the
           | Argument that he never "outputted" anything extremely
           | unconvincing.
        
             | astrange wrote:
             | He didn't write an autobiography. His biography had some
             | glaring errors (people like Bill Gates are directly quoted
             | as saying things with basic tech mistakes they couldn't
             | have said) and of course he died before it was finished, so
             | he couldn't have reviewed it.
        
             | hillcrestenigma wrote:
             | I agree. Abagnale never outputted anything for the public,
             | but he has outputted tremendous good for himself at the
             | expense of others. Him and Jobs both achieved feats that no
             | average man could have achieved.
        
         | MrsPeaches wrote:
         | As easy as it is to crap on Paris Hilton, given trauma she
         | survived, I'm actually kinda impressed how well she did in her
         | life.
         | 
         | https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/mar/18/they-st...
        
           | youngtaff wrote:
           | Read that interview yesterday... makes you think about her
           | slightly differently than before
        
         | chasing wrote:
         | > Steve Jobs never really invented anything but he knew how to
         | play the role.
         | 
         | As far as I'm aware, Steve Jobs was, in fact, both the founder
         | and former CEO of Apple. Unless he was pulling one HELLUVA ruse
         | that I was unaware of.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | diego_moita wrote:
           | My point is:
           | 
           | * He didn't create the Apple II, Wozniak did.
           | 
           | * He didn't create the mouse, GUI and Ethernet, the guys at
           | Xerox's Palo Alto research centre did it.
           | 
           | * He didn't really create Pixar, bought it from George Lucas.
           | His idea and project was to have the company to make and sell
           | hardware for CG, because that was the only thing he had ever
           | done at Apple & Next. The movie production was an offshot
           | from the demos and the business of creating intros for
           | television shows.
           | 
           | * He didn't create the iPhone. In fact Apple's engineers had
           | to pressure him for years before he accepted. What got him
           | accepting the idea was the fiasco on having iTunes into a
           | Nokia phone.
           | 
           | * He didn't invent the Appstore. In fact he only accepted the
           | idea of people making apps to the iPhone because 6 months
           | after release the sales were collapsing.
           | 
           | Apple was and still is a very smart company. I concede that
           | he was good at surrounding himself with smart people, and
           | taking merit for what those people did.
        
             | WalterBright wrote:
             | Without Jobs,
             | 
             | * Woz would have remained an obscure engineer working at HP
             | 
             | * Apple would never have happened
             | 
             | * The Mac would have never existed
             | 
             | * Pixar would have vanished without a trace
             | 
             | * Apple would have gone bankrupt in 1999
             | 
             | * OSX would never have existed
        
             | danaris wrote:
             | There's a big difference between "this person was a con-
             | man, never actually did any of the things they claimed, and
             | was outright lying in order to present a marketable
             | persona" and "this person is commonly given more credit in
             | the creation of some things than they deserve, but they
             | were closely involved with all those things, and were
             | unquestionably a major figure in their field, regardless of
             | the extra hype that has attached to them (even if they may
             | have encouraged some of that extra hype)".
             | 
             | Steve Jobs was not a con-man. In fact, to the best of my
             | knowledge, he never claimed _personal_ credit for the
             | things you 're saying he didn't do; those were things that
             | were attributed to him by others.
        
               | thecoppinger wrote:
               | Well, I think Diego's point was that he knew how to
               | create and utilise a powerful "reality distortion field"
               | such that, without claiming direct creation over any of
               | the vast classics that Apple created, he gained the
               | status and fame of someone who seemed to have done so.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | Trying to support someone's point that's literally
               | unfounded seems odd in a discussion about "reality
               | distortion fields."
               | 
               | People also assumed Bill Gates created DOS because they
               | are misinformed, no reality distortion field required.
        
             | blowski wrote:
             | Leaders lead talented people into a position where their
             | talents have higher impact.
        
             | TylerE wrote:
             | People use products, not abstract technology.
        
             | yucky wrote:
             | You missed the biggest one though - Apple, the company.
             | Which _was_ his creation.
        
             | sosborn wrote:
             | In everything I've seen, Jobs doesn't say things like "I
             | created xxx," it always seems to be "We created xxx."
        
             | AlbertCory wrote:
             | I'm not a huge fan of Jobs, but recognizing a good idea
             | _even belatedly_ and green lighting it, not to mention
             | selling it, is worth a lot.
             | 
             | And hiring people who can bring them to you is worth even
             | more, especially if you're able to hear them when they keep
             | insisting.
        
               | throwawaylinux wrote:
               | How do we even know it was belatedly?
               | 
               | Something a lot of engineers fail to realize is that a
               | successful product is not just about technology, it is
               | about timing, cost, ecosystem, market.
               | 
               | Who's to say Jobs didn't think the iPhone was not a good
               | idea, but shouldn't be done earlier? The iPhone 10-15
               | years before the iPhone was the Newton.
        
               | AlbertCory wrote:
               | I was thinking of the PARC demo, where he famously said,
               | "my guys were bugging me to go see this."
        
             | aeternum wrote:
             | Create is a somewhat loaded term because no one person
             | creates things of this scale. A better way of looking at it
             | might be:
             | 
             | The Apple II would likely not have been successful without
             | both Wozniak and Jobs.
             | 
             | Would the iPhone have come to fruition without Job's
             | leadership, vision, and design + negotiation skills?
        
               | mixmastamyk wrote:
               | Not in the hands of Scully or Amelio.
        
         | TechBro8615 wrote:
         | > Steve Jobs never really invented anything
         | 
         | Would we have the iPhone if Steve Jobs were never born?
        
           | reustle wrote:
           | Definitely. Connected palm pilots / PDAs existed for years
           | before.
        
             | kec wrote:
             | Apple invented the PDA (even the term) with the Newton in
             | 1992. Steve wasn't with the company at the time, but given
             | the company wouldn't have existed without him it isn't
             | really that much of a stretch to say they wouldn't
             | necessarily exist without his influence.
        
               | estebank wrote:
               | You seem to subscribe to the "great man" theory of
               | history, while the people that disagree with you
               | subscribe to a "human dynamics" theory of history (think
               | Hari Sheldon's psychohistory in the Foundation books).
               | You can point at some "great man" in history and say "if
               | it wasn't for this person's actions history would have
               | been different", but over long enough timelines I believe
               | some things are inevitable, given the wider context in a
               | point in time. If Columbus hadn't convinced the Spanish
               | crown to seek new trade routes through the West, some
               | other individual would have enticed another colonialist
               | European power to so, with similar results for native
               | Americans over the following century, for example.
               | 
               | > You must admit that the genesis of a great man depends
               | on the long series of complex influences which has
               | produced the race in which he appears, and the social
               | state into which that race has slowly grown. ... Before
               | he can remake his society, his society must make him.
               | 
               | -- Herbert Spencer, The Study of Sociology
        
           | kyriakos wrote:
           | Most likely yes, maybe even by a different company
        
             | foobarbecue wrote:
             | Maybe it would have been called the mePhone
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | dommer wrote:
           | I believe Steve Jobs hate the idea of turning the iPod into a
           | phone. Rejected the idea from his smartest people for a long
           | time.
        
         | Someone wrote:
         | > Steve Jobs never really invented anything but he knew how to
         | play the role.
         | 
         | Do you think orchestra directors or managers of sports teams
         | contribute nothing to their team's success?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | zpeti wrote:
         | You've clearly never listened to Steve Jobs speak, or you
         | didn't understand what he was saying.
         | 
         | And it's not just me. A lot of very respected smart people
         | think he was way above them. That's not a conman.
         | 
         | Also, conmen usually have an expiry date or they have to switch
         | roles or disappear into new communities once they get found
         | out. Same with psychopaths. They get found out and get rejected
         | by society. That's not what Steve Jobs did. He was respected to
         | the end and built products to the end.
         | 
         | As a side note, I also think the obsession with UX and design
         | in tech never would have occurred without jobs. The only reason
         | we have fairly well designed apps and websites at this point is
         | jobs' influence.
        
           | travisjungroth wrote:
           | Agree with you on conmen getting rooted out. I don't think
           | that holds for psychopaths or not nearly as much. They can
           | cement themselves in positions of power.
        
           | foobarbecue wrote:
           | You really should read The Greatest Hoax.
        
             | rexreed wrote:
             | The Valley of Genius is another great book and doesn't hide
             | much about Steve Jobs and his opportunism. That said, he
             | sure knew how to raise money, build a team, and get
             | attention.
        
       | lylejantzi3rd wrote:
       | So a pathological liar lied about his pathological lies? I'm
       | shocked!
        
         | cleanchit wrote:
         | What if he's lying when he said he lied about his pathological
         | lies?
        
         | ignoramous wrote:
         | Clearly you're lying.
        
         | LeoPanthera wrote:
         | Well. If he just lied once, about being a pathological liar,
         | then he's not a pathological liar.
         | 
         | He just made one very big lie.
        
       | mhoad wrote:
       | That story was what first got me interested in the field of
       | security. This is truly the perfect ending to that story for me.
       | Genuine chefs kiss.
        
       | throwanem wrote:
       | A true con artist is good at what they do because they believe
       | everything they tell you while they're saying it, which means all
       | the usual signals that someone is lying to you don't fire.
        
         | unsupp0rted wrote:
         | What are the unusual signs to look for in that case?
         | 
         | (Other than the obvious, which is "this sounds unrealistic")
        
           | throwanem wrote:
           | See what he does when you tell him you're going to sleep on
           | it. If that makes it look like a great deal is going to
           | disappear, or if he doesn't want to get lost when you tell
           | him you've had enough of him for now, you are being taken for
           | a ride and it's time to get off - what he doesn't want is you
           | getting a chance to compare notes, whether with someone else
           | or yourself.
           | 
           | That said, the hard part is realizing it's time to say you're
           | going to sleep on it in the first place. They don't call it a
           | _confidence_ trick for nothing, and faced with someone who 's
           | very good at it, it's easy to want to buy what he's selling
           | because the guy's just so dang likeable.
        
           | itronitron wrote:
           | I used to work with someone that I think qualifies as either
           | a pathological liar, con man, or deeply flawed. The most
           | distinctive sign is that they tell blatant lies which serve
           | to distract from and cover up the longer running and more
           | subtle lies.
           | 
           | Point being, if someone has been telling you something and
           | then tells you something unrelated that you can prove to be
           | false, then you need to exert considerable mental effort to
           | revisit the initial thing they were telling you in order to
           | determine whether it is true.
        
             | unsupp0rted wrote:
             | This is interesting. Can you remember any examples of this
             | kind of misdirection?
        
               | itronitron wrote:
               | I can't recall any specific details, but the general gist
               | would be akin to someone telling you that they are
               | working on a deal with XYZ for a multi-year program and
               | they would have told you on Thursday but their flight was
               | delayed in Houston due to a freak snow storm.
               | 
               | I think this tactic works because gullible people are
               | distracted by the idea of a freak snow storm in Houston,
               | and more critically minded people focus their bullshit
               | detector on the 'snow storm in Houston' story instead of
               | the 'multi-year program' story.
        
           | kayodelycaon wrote:
           | I don't know if there are specific signs to look for. I've
           | spend a lot of time studying people, their inputs and
           | outputs. There is a lot of data in body language and
           | inflection.
           | 
           | People lie, evade, omit, or exaggerate all the time. For
           | example, talking about things that make them uncomfortable.
           | It's one of those unconscious things that makes societies
           | work.
           | 
           | This isn't unconscious for me. I see everything and analyze
           | it logically.
           | 
           | Detecting misdirection is fairly easy for me. When someone is
           | actively lying, they are generally trying present specific
           | body language and inflection.
           | 
           | What happens is they miss something and I see the mismatch
           | between the fake and real signals. It's very similar to
           | reading a polygraph.
           | 
           | This isn't a unique ability, most people have it and it
           | manifests as a gut feeling. I'm neurodivergent and I'm able
           | to give more than a gut feeling. I can usually point to what
           | I'm seeing and explain it.
           | 
           | All that said, I haven't found any general "tells" for good
           | lairs. It's an art, not a science. It's one reason polygraphs
           | aren't allow in court and I don't use this ability to make
           | snap judgements. :)
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | ozim wrote:
           | Basically there are no unusual signs.
           | 
           | There is no trick that gives you information if person is
           | lying that gives out on the spot. As much as pop-culture
           | would like some eye movement or what not.
           | 
           | Only thing that gives away lies is cross examination and
           | asking multiple times about the same thing in a slightly
           | different way.
           | 
           | After asking 10 or 20 times about the same thing you might
           | see that things don't add up. It might be easier if you have
           | 2 or more people making stuff up because if you separate them
           | they will lie in a different way.
           | 
           | Of course there are also people so bad at lying that will
           | give out at first interrogation...
        
             | throwanem wrote:
             | Yes, I also enjoy police procedurals.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | DonsDiscountGas wrote:
           | There isn't one. Body language is maybe slightly better than
           | chance but generally unreliable. Exact word choice can be a
           | sign; if you ask them a question do they actually answer it
           | or do they deflect? But fundamentally if you really care you
           | need some independent confirmation.
           | 
           | In Abagnales the bar exam results and prison time should be
           | verifiable, but besides that who knows. I wonder why the FBI
           | wouldn't comment, seems like they should know whether he ever
           | worked there or not.
        
       | zpeti wrote:
       | I'm pretty sure 90% of the story of the wolf of wall street is
       | complete bullshit, yet it's sold as an autobiography. I'm waiting
       | for the big reveal.
        
       | bigbacaloa wrote:
       | In the words of the immortal wiseman Flava Flav "don't believe
       | the hype"
        
       | IIAOPSW wrote:
       | So how did he cheat the Louisiana state Bar?
        
         | solveit wrote:
         | People have looked very hard, and there is not a shred of
         | evidence that Abagnale passed the Louisiana bar exam other than
         | his own claims.
        
           | cal85 wrote:
           | Wait, is there not evidence that he practised as a lawyer?
        
         | Rebelgecko wrote:
         | He didn't, the lawyer stuff was a fabrication
        
           | IIAOPSW wrote:
           | Just to be sure everyone gets it I'll come out and say, I'm
           | referencing a minor plot point towards the end of the movie
           | based on him. There's a sequence where the main investigator
           | keeps trying to get him to tell how he cheated the bar and he
           | keeps refusing to say. Later on, as in years later, he
           | finally reveals the trick. "I didn't cheat, I studied it."
           | 
           | It seemed fitting given what we now know about how little he
           | actually cheated.
        
         | notmindthegap wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
       | bitwize wrote:
       | Surprised_pikachu.jpg
        
       | agumonkey wrote:
       | a classic movie and many careers came out of his thin air :)
        
       | foobarbecue wrote:
       | I read The Greatest Hoax when it came out. Good book. What a
       | creep Abagnale is. The book caught my eye becuase I remember
       | seeing Abagnale give his lectures at Google, thinking, wow, this
       | guy sure doesn't seem like a genius. We are all just gullible.
        
         | cainxinth wrote:
         | > _We are all just gullible._
         | 
         | That's true generally, and especially true when a celebrity is
         | involved. Humans are great liars and terrible lie detectors.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-03-19 23:01 UTC)