[HN Gopher] Laptop Brands with GNU/Linux Preinstalled
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Laptop Brands with GNU/Linux Preinstalled
Author : doener
Score : 141 points
Date : 2023-03-18 13:36 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (floss.social)
(TXT) w3m dump (floss.social)
| mttyng wrote:
| I just recently set up my 2nd Dell XPS. The last one I switched
| between Arch, Gentoo, Ubuntu, and Windows as my itch to tinker
| kicked in from time to time.
|
| I had minimal issues with any distro I tinkered with. Ultimately,
| the ol' girl had some failing hardware components so I upgraded
| to the newest XPS model and will continue to do so until their
| quality declines. I absolutely love the machine.
| kaycebasques wrote:
| I got a $400 Dell running Ubuntu. Works great for my general
| development and browsing needs. I'm pretty careful about
| stripping off any software/daemons that I don't need.
| https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/new-inspiron-15...
|
| The price point is also in a sweet spot in the sense that if I
| break it or lose it or something, it won't be a painful financial
| loss. The same reason why I never buy sunglasses above $50. "I
| _will_ financially recover from this. "
| bitlax wrote:
| I understand why you would want hardware designed to run Linux
| but wouldn't you still want to do a fresh install so you are less
| likely to have to deal with spyware/crapware?
| pessimizer wrote:
| I don't even understand the benefit of preinstalled Linux
| outside of the possibility being higher that they tested the
| hardware with Linux. Why would I risk their backdoors and
| crapware? To save the 15 minutes it would take to install
| something safer?
|
| edit: have bought two Zareasons and a Dell with Ubuntu
| preinstalled. The support with Zareason was great at the time,
| and I'm willing to support companies that ship Linux because
| they have support that uses Linux, but I'm not going to be
| running some retailer's OS unless I'm forced to with locked
| hardware.
| Lio wrote:
| There's two things you want:
|
| 1. To know that every feature of the laptop should work out
| of the box.
|
| 2. Ongoing hardware support.
|
| You don't have to keep the supplied OS if you don't want to
| but what you want is support.
|
| As long as it comes with Linux pre-installed the manufacturer
| will put resources into ensuring it works or you could return
| it. That's not the case if you just buy a Windows laptop and
| wipe it.
| syntheticnature wrote:
| Pre-installed is the closest one will get to "works with Linux"
| from the larger manufacturers, so I evaluate it on that basis.
| Though sometimes it turns out they're using some obscure binary
| driver or even just an open source but obscure repo to support
| some important aspects, particularly on laptops -- so
| reinstall, but inspect the installation first.
| uneekname wrote:
| That's what happens with Windows. Most folks just use the
| included OS when they buy a computer, but I doubt many Linux
| users would.
|
| Some of these vendors go the extra mile to load up coreboot or
| some other libre BIOS. There is also some effort put into
| finding components with solid Linux support. These may be good
| motivators to buy a Linux laptop, even if you intend to reimage
| it off the bat.
| nelgaard wrote:
| Most of us here on HN would probably install our own OS
| anyway. And many buying from the websites listed also would.
|
| But if you could go to your local hypermarket and buy a cheap
| Linux-laptop, I bet many customers would be happy with the
| installed OS.
|
| The last, and only, time something like that happened was 15
| years ago with the Eee PC. I still have mine somewhere
| around.
| whitehexagon wrote:
| indeed, the number of distros that come with this strange bit
| of software called systemd...
| djbusby wrote:
| I also dislike systemd but we can stop beating that dead
| horse. The big distros use it, it's here to stay. I'm using
| Gentoo+OpenRC for my boxen but at $WORK it's Debian+systemd.
| Use the energy for different battles.
| sdfihonoi wrote:
| My goal is not so much to get a GNU/Linux laptop as it is to
| avoid Microsoft Windows. Most laptops come with a Windows
| license, which costs me money and gives aid and comfort to the
| enemy. It is easier to find a laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled
| than to find one with no OS whatsoever.
|
| Given you are wiping out the OS, "Linux" and "no preinstalled
| software" are synonymous, but "Linux" is a better keyword.
| drewg123 wrote:
| Rather than a blanket "Linux Preinstalled", I'd like to know
| about S3 sleep support. Eg, it would be nice to know which
| laptops still support real S3 sleep, and not just the new
| "Windows modern standby" mode.
|
| I watched an LTT that indicates that Windows modern standby
| apparently doesn't even work right with Windows. ("Microsoft is
| Forcing me to Buy MacBooks - Windows Modern Standby"
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHKKcd3sx2c)
| taxyz wrote:
| I think Lenovo has a website somewhere where you can explore
| the bios for most of their laptops. IIRC, most of the thinkpads
| still support s3 sleep and are pretty Linux friendly
| (unfortunately I do not have personal experience with this,
| just what I read).
|
| Some will argue since thinkpad got sold off to Lenovo that they
| can't be trusted given their track record; I don't necessarily
| disagree but given how much MS/Apple/Google/Dell/etc have
| burned people one time or another I'd opt for good hardware,
| customizable firmware, and good software support. If true that
| thinkpads still all support s3 and Linux, that'd be my pick but
| I'm a mbp guy now.
| djbusby wrote:
| Lenovo that are NOT Thinkpad will give you headaches with
| Linux. Avoid. Sleep issues, WIFi issues (related to sleep)
| BIOS updates that only work from Windows 11, etc.
| Lio wrote:
| I've never quite understood why Framework don't offer Linux as a
| pre-installed option.
|
| I'm told that their machines work well with Linux and I like the
| user servicing options so it just seems weird.
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| They're probably just responding to demand. Preinsyallef Linux
| would only be appealing to newbies or people whose OS
| preferences happen to match what the laptop seller offers.
| Anyone who's been using Linux for a while likely doesn't think
| installing on a new laptop is a big deal and also has
| idiosyncratic preferences on how to do it.
|
| (I, for instance, use NixOS, the market for which I'm sure will
| be miniscule for a long time yet.)
| nrp wrote:
| The preferences reason is the main one. We regularly run
| surveys in the community about distro preference, and we
| haven't yet seen any one distro get over 30% of the vote. In
| response to that, we've written guides for setting up the top
| 3 most popular distros and ship the DIY Edition without an OS
| installed. That's not to say we won't ever have a pre-
| installed Linux option, just that our focus has been on
| making it easy for people to bring the distro they want.
| newaccount2023 wrote:
| I still don't understand why I need to buy the DIY version
| to not get Windows
|
| I've asked this before and responses are just "its really
| easy to assemble!"
|
| that isn't what I am asking though
|
| I am asking why I cannot buy an assembled FrameWork laptop
| without Windows
|
| its easy on your side - just do everything you would do and
| instead of installing an OS, just ship it
| afandian wrote:
| I don't think I saw MNT on the list. They're crowdsourcing their
| second laptop now.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35156029
| whitehexagon wrote:
| I think this will be the one for me when my MBP is considered
| obsolete by AAPL, is that 2 or 3 years these days... Certainly
| wont be going down the even more locked down and proprietary
| M(n) AAPL road. I already have a 2013 MBP that overheats with
| anything but OSX. And an iPad that cant be used because some
| web certificate chain has expired, so much e-waste! open
| hardware for me next :)
| Kwpolska wrote:
| Instead of picking niche brands with unknown build quality and
| support options, just buy a laptop from a trusted and well-known
| brand like Dell or Lenovo. Some of their laptops come with Linux
| options, and even if they don't, it's very likely Linux will work
| well on it anyway (and you can always check before you buy if all
| the hardware is supported).
| [deleted]
| m463 wrote:
| I don't easily put Lenovo and trusted together with all the
| security/privacy issues:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo#Security_and_privacy_in...
| Kwpolska wrote:
| I would still trust Lenovo more than the no-name brands
| recommended in this post, even keeping those incidents in
| mind.
| totalhack wrote:
| Got a Thinkbook 13s Gen 4 running Ubuntu and it's been solid.
| Excellent specs for the price, battery life is the only thing
| that's mediocre but I'm plugged in most of the time. Oh and it
| tries to turn itself into a nuclear reactor occasionally while
| sleeping.
| raffraffraff wrote:
| I don't really care what comes pre-installed, I'm gonna do my own
| thing no matter what. I just got a (gorgeous) ASUS ZenBook S13
| OLED and it took me all of 30 minutes to get it installed.
| Everything perfectly working (although I'm lucky that the latest
| BIOS update and 6.2 kernel fix a few issues).
| squarefoot wrote:
| While having Linux preinstalled is without doubt a good thing to
| make more people familiar with the ecosystem and soften the
| learning curve by eliminating the install process, note that this
| doesn't protect from any kind of spyware, branded crapware that
| pushes users into buying products or services, or simple
| telemetry. Users who know how to do a fresh Linux install should
| do that anyway before they put their personal data and files on
| the device. That would be good practice also with Windows
| preloaded laptops, where having a load of added garbage became
| the norm.
| loloquwowndueo wrote:
| > Users who know how to do a fresh Linux install should do that
| anyway
|
| Not great advice. Dell laptops at least ship with a specific
| version of Ubuntu that has all the necessary drivers and config
| tweaks for the laptops devices to work well out of the box. A
| stock Ubuntu install will result in a half-working laptop and a
| not great experience.
|
| The Dell-customized Ubuntu image is pretty clean and crap ware-
| free anyway so it's definitely a good idea to use that.
| teawrecks wrote:
| Just sound like reasons to not get a dell.
| loloquwowndueo wrote:
| Totally. A manufacturer supplying drivers and a suitable
| pre installed OS, and upstreaming changes so they become
| available widely. The horror.
| thomastjeffery wrote:
| Most of the appeal of getting a laptop speed with Linux
| is the expectation of good Linux hardware support.
|
| Most of the utility in running Linux on your hardware is
| from running the Linux _distribution_ you prefer.
| colordrops wrote:
| Maybe not the best advice for total beginners, but good
| advice for anyone who wants to learn Linux. There is plenty
| of documentation out there on how to get a fresh Linux
| install up to speed on a Dell laptop.
| Jon_Lowtek wrote:
| Drivers that are near unobtainable except when using the
| preinstalled OS is a NO-GO.
|
| But it's probably something trivial. I know stories about
| bleeding edge wifi hardware drivers not being provided by a
| year old LTS Ubuntu (well du'h). And of course there is the
| gpu driver shism. But i'm guessing.
|
| Can you elaborate on the changes made by dell?
| loloquwowndueo wrote:
| Dell has a better description of what's done to the custom
| image and how most of those changes are later upstreamed.
| https://www.dell.com/community/Developer-Blogs/Dell-s-
| Develo...
| nsajko wrote:
| Are you sure you meant to provide this specific link?
| Where on the page should we look, if so?
| abnry wrote:
| I've never figured out how to manage battery power settings
| on my windows MSI laptop after I installed Ubuntu.
| djbusby wrote:
| Likely some sleep-state fixes for wifi HW. Those have a
| long history of issue (on many vendors) and fixes generally
| require BIOS, firmware and kernel to all play nice.
| donutshop wrote:
| This. Have gotten the DE of the XPS and everything worked
| flawlessly. Along with Dell ProSupport it's hard to beat it.
| nsajko wrote:
| Sounds dubious, could you be more specific?
|
| > A stock Ubuntu install will result in a half-working laptop
|
| Probably just because Ubuntu is outdated, try Archlinux.
| bornfreddy wrote:
| Great advice. I'm not sure if Dell upstreams their changes or
| list them somewhere, but if they don't, they deserve support
| problems. And if they do, well, no issue then, right?
|
| I wouldn't trust vendor not to put spyware / crapware on the
| laptop.
| jrm4 wrote:
| This is technically mostly true, yet _incredibly_ misleading.
| We can certainly argue about Linux 's usability, but using
| Linux will put you WAY ahead of others in the crapware race.
| gonzo wrote:
| So do they just install the kernel?
| mariusor wrote:
| Already discussed about a week ago:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35077888
| Jon_Lowtek wrote:
| Far more interesting IMHO is whether the vendor publishes uefi
| updates and other low level firmware for the device in a way that
| doesn't require a running ms-windows to patch it. Dare i ask for
| open source firmware?
| nsajko wrote:
| TBH requiring Windows isn't so bad as it seems, because
| Microsoft provides a very-lightweight version of Windows free-
| of-charge. Remove your storage drives just in case before
| booting, to prevent Windows messing with your data. This is a
| relevant link:
|
| https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Windows_PE
| ahoya wrote:
| Star labs does this using fwupd
| Jon_Lowtek wrote:
| Lenovo does this for their laptops, but struggles with
| peripherals.
|
| Story time: A while ago Lenovo had bugs in their thunderbolt
| and uefi firmware, with symptoms like glitches when the devices
| were plugged in a lenovo ultra docking station. They published
| the firmware to LVFS and thereby enabled linux devices to apply
| these patches with fwupd.
|
| However the dock, which is a device on its own, also has some
| glitches, little annoying stuff like certain monitors on the
| display ports not working every time when hot-docking. They
| made patches for that as well, because business hardware, but a
| microsoft operating system is needed to apply them to the dock.
|
| Sure one can say: that is a problem of the dock vendor, which
| just happens to make the laptops as well.
| blcknight wrote:
| I have the Lenovo X1 that came with Fedora. Love it.
| ryantgtg wrote:
| I have that, too. Though I ditched Fedora for my preferred
| distro. I wanted to give Fedora a good try. My issue might have
| been that it uses gnome and I prefer kde plasma. Anyway, great
| laptop!
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| Good vendor list. I myself bought a System 76 and a small
| Chromebook to get a no-hassle Linux experience. (Linux containers
| on Chromebooks are handy for light weight development).
|
| Another great source of Linux friendly hardware: old Mac laptops.
| A few months ago, Apple stopped supporting old gear for the new
| iCloud encryption, and if you had any registered laptops without
| this option turned on, then you couldn't use it for any of your
| gear.
|
| The point is, that I put Ubuntu on an old MacBook and a really
| old MacBook Air (the very small form factor). These old laptops
| have a new life, and run great. It was incredibly easy to do the
| installs, especially compared to my first Slackware install that
| I had to do with a 2400 baud modem Internet connection.
| lbrito wrote:
| I'm flabbergasted it's been an hour and there has been no
| "System76 is just an expensive Clevo" post. HN isn't the same
| on Saturdays!
|
| Joking aside I also have one and am satisfied with it. In my
| experience it is the Linux laptop with lowest power
| consumption/longest battery out of the box by far.
| eatbitseveryday wrote:
| I have a 2013 MBP with an aged battery. How would you go about
| installing Linux?
| pixxel wrote:
| I have Manjaro running on a 2013 MBA. Installed on a USB with
| Ventoy. Runs great.
| raffraffraff wrote:
| I have the 20133 2015 13". MBP, and I installed OpenSUSE
| Tumbleweed from a USB stick. Everything works. You might just
| have to install facetimehd camera driver.
| placatedmayhem wrote:
| I put Fedora on my 2012 MBP Retina. I made a USB key, iirc
| with the Fedora USB image tool, then plugged the USB key into
| the MBP and held the Option key as I powered it on. USB key
| shows up as a bootable option.
| jckahn wrote:
| I have the same model and installed Ubuntu from an ISO burned
| to a bootable USB. It works great!
| kylecazar wrote:
| Worth noting Dell, whose XPS laptops (at least) offer Ubuntu
| 22.04 as a configuration option.
|
| I've had pretty good experiences with Dell and Linux, albeit I
| dual boot and usually get Windows from the factory.
| sscarduzio wrote:
| Yeah I too was looking for Dell in the list, and for some
| reason didn't find it.
| kaycebasques wrote:
| It's the second item from the top ;)
| akho wrote:
| If you have a moment -- why do you dualboot? I find it too
| difficult to keep both environments around, especially given
| how high-maintenance Windows can be with blocking updates and
| general junk accumulation. (or, if Windows is your primary
| environment -- how high-maintenance Linux can be, I guess)
| djbusby wrote:
| Some windows updates fail when it doesn't recognize the
| bootloader. That stumped even my friends that work at MS on
| the OS team!
|
| Then I had to disk repair to put the windows bootloader back,
| then update windows, then restore syslinux bootloader (then
| moved the windows out of the partition into VM image)
| pushedx wrote:
| I have a Thinkpad X1 Carbon Gen 10 32GB RAM coming in the mail on
| Wednesday. Going to install another distro immediately upon
| receiving it, but I was happy to support a Linux laptop product.
| gtk40 wrote:
| Maybe not "GNU" enough for them but I'm writing this on a Lenovo
| Thinkpad Carbon X1 I bought pre-installed with Fedora. I have
| also bought a Dell laptop with Ubuntu.
| vkazanov wrote:
| I bought like 4-5 dell laptops with ubuntu preinstalled by now.
| The experience so far was somewhere between great and ok.
|
| The most important thing with these laptops is that I know it's
| gonna have the right hardware.
|
| At some point I stopped reinstalling ubuntu as it just worked
| anyways.
| Takennickname wrote:
| My exact computer as well, except that mine came with Windows
| and I installed Fedora on it. Interesting note: Tried ubuntu
| before that, not everything worked as seamlessly as fedora. I
| am a Fedora believer from now on.
| AtomicOrbital wrote:
| I have installed the current release of Ubuntu on dozens of
| different laptops each attempt success yet some did require
| googling to discover various incantations of boot up settings...
| So there is never the need to buy a new laptop with preinstalled
| linux ... Infact if a given person cannot muster the grit to do a
| linux install that person is not good material for even becoming
| a linux user ... Yes 'tis sad but true linux is decidedly not yet
| ready for the masses ... However no matter this relatively high
| barrier to entry the pure joy of using linux easily outweighs the
| angst of this ongoing hazing ritual of doing your own installs
| smitty1e wrote:
| Shout out to Lincoln at http://emperorlinux.com/
|
| I have had excellent success with him over the years.
|
| Deeply knowledgeable, and able to configure whatever you can
| imagine.
| awat wrote:
| Picked up a Starlabs StarLite a few years ago and I love it.
| Really one of the only 11 inch laptops left that has (fairly)
| decent specs and linux.
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