[HN Gopher] Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store
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       Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store
        
       Author : riidom
       Score  : 107 points
       Date   : 2023-03-17 20:33 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (godotengine.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (godotengine.org)
        
       | ncallaway wrote:
       | > Starting today, you can choose to use EGS to download the
       | engine and keep it up to date with every release
       | 
       | Curious the level at which they auto-patch and update the engine.
       | Most games that I'm aware of are very sensitive to their engine
       | version, and don't update major or minor versions completely
       | freely.
        
         | smolgumball wrote:
         | I wonder if they patch a base installation of some kind (think:
         | a core project selector / launcher) and then individual
         | projects contain a copy of the engine at time of creation?
        
           | _manifold wrote:
           | While it will inevitable be larger in the future, Godot's
           | current executable size is so small something like this could
           | actually work.
           | 
           | At the very least I would want something like Unity Hub which
           | can manage both projects and engine/editor version
           | installations. Being locked into whatever version of Godot
           | Epic Store considers to be "current" sounds like a nightmare.
        
         | pacifika wrote:
         | Yup and Godot Flatpak upgraded straight to 4.0.
         | 
         | Simple case of direct download fixed it. Godot doesn't even
         | need an installer.
        
         | sitzkrieg wrote:
         | yea a big selling point to me using godot is downloading the
         | binary of the exact version im building with and stashing it
         | away. i dont want even minor vers to be automatically applied
         | and dont really see the gain here other than exposure
        
         | extrememacaroni wrote:
         | No one's going to make anything serious with the auto-updating
         | version from either Steam or Epic, it's just for advertising
         | purposes.
        
       | brundolf wrote:
       | Trying to figure out what Epic's incentives are here
       | (contributing to a competitor that doesn't make them money in any
       | roundabout way I can see)
       | 
       | Edit: Here's a weird theory, maybe Epic doesn't see Godot as a
       | competitor to Unreal, but does see it as a competitor to Unity,
       | and hopes it'll spell doom for Unity (which is Unreal's only real
       | competitor)
        
         | gl-prod wrote:
         | Get money from people selling games on the store?
        
           | brundolf wrote:
           | This is about them distributing the engine itself on the
           | store (and apparently even contributing to it), not just
           | allowing games made with the engine on the store. Presumably
           | you could already do that
        
         | mhh__ wrote:
         | Kill unity
        
         | danbolt wrote:
         | I think Godot's workflow and structure is closer to Unity's, so
         | this strikes me as Epic trying to commoditize their
         | competition.
        
           | ChadNauseam wrote:
           | Just so you know, the original version of this quote was
           | "commoditize their complement", not "commoditize their
           | competition"
        
             | johnyzee wrote:
             | But that's not what they are doing. Godot/Unity are not
             | complements to Unreal. Epic are, in fact, commoditizing
             | their competition, which is low-end, indie-friendly games
             | development platforms.
        
             | colordrops wrote:
             | You all have been reading hacker news recently too I see.
        
               | m463 wrote:
               | it all goes back to joel on software from 2002:
               | 
               | https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/06/12/strategy-
               | letter-v/
        
             | danbolt wrote:
             | Yeah, I had looked up the term to double-check before
             | posting, but I felt that it didn't quite fit as a developer
             | picking Unreal was unlikely to also use Unity for a game.
        
           | brundolf wrote:
           | Jinx :)
        
         | crazysim wrote:
         | Pre-emptively stave off the anti-trust!
        
         | mattlondon wrote:
         | Godot is the on-ramp.
         | 
         | I.e. people use Godot to get started and "learn" gamedev. Many
         | will stop there and not progress beyond Godot, but some will
         | want more/latest features or want to use a "proper" engine and
         | so move onto Unreal.
         | 
         | The alternative starter-space is Unity, and that is more of a
         | competitor for Unreal since there is a lot of starter materials
         | and tutorials, _and_ unity can make commercial quality stuff
         | (three Unity games that come to mind are Two Point Hospital,
         | the Outer Wilds, and Rust)
        
           | gamblor956 wrote:
           | Also: Amplitude (the Endless Series, Humankind), mihoyou
           | (Genshin Impact), Developer Digital (Fall Guys, ironically
           | published by Epic Games), Paradox (Cities: Skyline).
        
             | ThatPlayer wrote:
             | A lot of top indie games like Cuphead, Hollow Knight, and
             | Neon White are all Unity too.
        
         | tpmx wrote:
         | What's the risk? Godot is no threat to Unreal Engine.
        
           | brundolf wrote:
           | I tend to disagree, Godot's been putting out some really
           | impressive graphics improvements lately. But it's possible
           | Epic agrees with you
        
             | tpmx wrote:
             | Please do realize that according to your own web site
             | (https://www.brandons.me/) you're a javascript developer
             | having opinions on why Godot is supposedly catching up with
             | Unreal Engine to the point that it's becoming a threat.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | larsiusprime wrote:
         | Godot is no threat at all to Unreal, at the high end of AAA
         | development you really need the dialed-in horsepower of either
         | an in-house engine, or something like Unreal, which has been
         | increasingly consolidating market share over the last decade.
         | 
         | Godot competes squarely with mid-market stuff: Indie, so-called
         | "Triple-I" (high budget """indie""") and AA development, where
         | Unity is the dominant engine. Unity has very little penetration
         | share among the big AAA games.
         | 
         | Godot and other open source engines squeeze Unity from the
         | bottom, and Unreal squeezes it from the top.
        
           | _hypx wrote:
           | That's worryingly close to the same story high-end Unix
           | providers told about Linux. If there is an open source engine
           | that does 99% of what a proprietary engine does, then it's
           | very likely we won't see that proprietary engine last for
           | much longer.
        
             | RobotToaster wrote:
             | Worryingly?
             | 
             | Why would that be a bad thing?
        
           | echelon wrote:
           | How long until every tech company pours massive and
           | substantial investment into Godot to turn it into the Blender
           | of AAA games and film? It's almost to the point now.
           | 
           | Amazon will ditch Lumberyard for Godot. They have deep
           | interests in games as a part of their vision. Twitch, Luna,
           | in house game studios, prime gaming, etc.
           | 
           | Apple will absolutely do it. They're building their own
           | metaverse and VR. Although I'd also gamble on them acquiring
           | Epic Games. Apple wants to own the future of content
           | creation.
           | 
           | Google's significant investment in WebGPU is going to make
           | Godot a more attractive platform. Google is indirectly
           | contributing to this.
           | 
           | As Godot gains more and more mindshare and economic activity
           | happening atop it, it will achieve the activation energy
           | required to take on AAA rendering and workflows.
           | 
           | Companies will see Epic as a tax. And the entire world will
           | be submitting patches to Godot. Godot is already spawning an
           | ecosystem of support companies and console SDKs.
        
             | riidom wrote:
             | The situation is a bit different, because Unreal and Unity
             | are by far not so much of a money-milking PITA as Max &
             | Maya are.
        
             | Vt71fcAqt7 wrote:
             | >Amazon will ditch Lumberyard for Godot
             | 
             | They are using O3DE now, which actually seems better than
             | godot for 3D at first glance. Only issue so far is there
             | isn't much of a community.
             | 
             | Edit:
             | 
             | >Although I'd also gamble on them acquiring Epic Games.
             | 
             | That is never happening.
        
               | _hypx wrote:
               | O3DE is just open sourced Lumberyard.
        
               | Vt71fcAqt7 wrote:
               | I know, I was just pointing out that they have a
               | better(?) open source engine already.
        
             | objclxt wrote:
             | > Although I'd also gamble on [Apple] acquiring Epic Games
             | 
             | Given Tim Sweeney holds a controlling stake in Epic this
             | seems like the least likely outcome.
        
           | simonebrunozzi wrote:
           | Given you seem to know a lot about this, what's the main
           | reason why Unreal is great at high end AAA, while Unity is
           | not?
        
             | pdntspa wrote:
             | Personally I think it is because it has terrible
             | performance. Scenes that Unreal seems to be able to render
             | at full frame rates run at a fraction of that in Unity.
             | Even its vaunted 2D system is slow as balls... load times
             | for Graveyard Keeper, as an example, are agonizingly long.
             | And for what? A hundred megabytes at most of 2D pixel-art
             | assets? What is the engine doing with all that time?
             | Certainly not just loading and decompressing shit into RAM.
        
               | cdchn wrote:
               | Reminds me of the unnecessarily long GTA Online loading
               | times that were a result of parsing a giant JSON file. Is
               | it really worth blaming the engine when maybe its the
               | game doing something improper?
        
               | pdntspa wrote:
               | Maybe, and I don't know the details. I just have a hard
               | time seeing how something like Graveyard Keeper doesn't
               | load nearly instantly.
        
             | floydnoel wrote:
             | Epic has shipped first-party AAA games with Unreal. Unity
             | has not done so. They had a planned release (of a high
             | quality first party title) but have more recently cancelled
             | it.
        
             | dbrueck wrote:
             | I'm a daily user of UE but not a game dev, so my
             | perspective might be skewed, but nearly everything in UE
             | targets high end dev (even the clunky parts, haha). The
             | materials and rendering stuff are stellar, but also things
             | like their asset pipeline and content workflows all have a
             | "big project" vibe.
             | 
             | Sometimes the complexity of UE can be overwhelming. For
             | example, if you're just trying to set up an AI-controlled
             | actor to animate differently in some different states,
             | you'll initially be frustrated by the gazillion bits of
             | setup work you have to do. But in every case I've seen,
             | that complexity exists to support the flexibility and
             | richness needed by top of the line games.
             | 
             | Basically, for better and for worse, UE was written by and
             | is used by people who have built, shipped, and supported
             | AAA games.
        
           | lovehashbrowns wrote:
           | Particularly when it comes to 2D games development!
           | Fracturing that space is far more beneficial for Unreal than
           | it is for Unity. Unreal, at least from my understanding, is
           | awful for 2D. I'm playing around with 2D game development in
           | Unity now and it's insanely easy to get started. I think the
           | same goes for Godot where 2D dev work is a first-class
           | citizen.
        
         | gamblor956 wrote:
         | Godot is (becoming) a very good competitor to Unity. Godot
         | pre-4 was not ready for prime time, but Godot 4 is almost
         | there. I'm pleasantly surprised by the leaps-and-bounds they've
         | made over Godot 3/3.5, and Godot 4 has surpassed Unity in a
         | number of areas (though in some cases, they've been assisted by
         | Unity shooting itself in the foot, such as with Unity's non-
         | existent networking functionality and chaotic approach to
         | render pipeline development).
         | 
         | However, Godot 4 still has a ways to go before it's competitive
         | with Unity in the AA space (meaning, for example, games by
         | studios like Paradox, Amplitude, or miHoYo). Mostly, the asset
         | pipeline still needs a great deal of work. Hopefully the Epic
         | investment will let them reach parity (or exceed) Unity on that
         | front.
        
         | b33j0r wrote:
         | Hey, more people installing the Epic Games Launcher is probably
         | the win. Platform neutrality, or its specter, probably wins for
         | us.
         | 
         | It'd be much more offensive to our sensibilities if it were
         | like the situation on iOS where Amazon is available, but "no
         | way will we let you buy a Kindle book unless you reopen the
         | store in a web browser."
         | 
         | (Because yeah... apple sells all the books I want to read, in
         | their very cool bookstore that I haven't seen in more than half
         | a decade.)
         | 
         | At any rate. Anyone serious about godot is probably compiling
         | it or getting the official release artifacts. This seems like
         | something Epic probably couldn't justify turning down as window
         | dressing for the unreal store. I'm for it anyway.
         | 
         | Edit: more optimistically, if the GUI framework were slightly
         | easier to use, Godot is a very attractive tools development
         | platform. Maybe that factors in.
         | 
         | Perhaps for end-user tooling, like map editors. Obviously Epic
         | is motivated to keep devs inside Unreal for as many internal
         | dev tasks as are feasible.
        
         | mkl95 wrote:
         | Embrace, extend, and extinguish
        
           | andybak wrote:
           | Doesn't really make sense in this case unless you have any
           | specific insight?
        
         | hiccuphippo wrote:
         | I think it also sends a message to Godot users to publish their
         | games in Epic's store.
        
         | waboremo wrote:
         | Important to note: the contributions in question are a $250k
         | megagrant. Throwaway money for Epic, but major for the small
         | Godot team.
         | 
         | $250k for good PR and not being viewed as anti-competitive is
         | an exceptional deal when you consider Google is doing the same
         | to the tune of $400 million for Firefox.
         | 
         | Also in the short term Unreal's dominance matters, but in the
         | long term it really doesn't. Epic has spent the absurd levels
         | of Fortnite money trying to establish itself as additional
         | integral layers for developers/creators so that even if Unreal
         | stops generating any revenue it'll be fine.
        
       | zuluonezero wrote:
       | Every time I open Unity these days it I hate it a little bit
       | more. Everytimy I open Godot I love it a little bit more. The
       | bloat vs the transparency. The frustration vs speed of
       | development. Godots catch phrase should be: Godot gets out of
       | your way! Unity may have democratised game dev but Godot made it
       | fun again.
        
         | enlyth wrote:
         | I feel the same way. I haven't actually completed a full game
         | with Godot but it was a joy to use when playing around with it
         | and making some simple proof of concepts.
        
         | thrillgore wrote:
         | A better slogan would be "Stop Waiting. Start Creating."
         | because it's a clever nod to the Beckett play, and how abysmal
         | using Unity is.
        
         | waboremo wrote:
         | Godot and Blender share the same space I feel in regards to
         | getting a tremendous amount done within such a contested space,
         | all without falling prey to the usual open source traps.
         | Exceptional projects
        
       | moffkalast wrote:
       | Is this just Epic Games looking at Godot like "hmmm yeah,
       | definitely not even close to being a threat to UE" hah. I suppose
       | they're right, with how buggy 4.0 still is.
        
         | waboremo wrote:
         | No this is Godot publishing on the store because they recently
         | released self publishing tools on the store. EGS already has
         | non-game apps like Spotify and Opera available so they're
         | really open to whatever that isn't adult rated or abusive.
         | 
         | Godot is also available on Itch and Steam.
        
         | Trasmatta wrote:
         | > with how buggy 4.0 still is.
         | 
         | Unreal is pretty notoriously buggy as well
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | RektBoy wrote:
       | Most useless piece of software in the world? Epic Games Store.
       | Also most successful piece of malware.
        
         | smolgumball wrote:
         | I truly cannot describe the amount of confusion that courses
         | through me each time I open the Epic Launcher. I know that Epic
         | decided to create it using the Unreal Engine UMG technology,
         | but it truly shines as one of the most sluggish applications on
         | my entire PC.
         | 
         | At this point, I would _gladly_ accept an Electron application
         | in it's place. Just wild to me that UX teams at Epic seem happy
         | to deliver this to users.
        
           | TulliusCicero wrote:
           | I find that Steam can also be quite sluggish, but Steam has
           | the excuse of possessing an enormous number of features.
        
             | zwirbl wrote:
             | Steam still feels orders of magnitude more responsive
        
             | Semaphor wrote:
             | Huh, the only time it's sluggish, is from internet delay
             | for me. What parts are slow for you?
        
               | KronisLV wrote:
               | > What parts are slow for you?
               | 
               | Not OP, personally the Steam UI seems to freeze in the
               | following cases for me:                 - when opening or
               | scrolling my library, as the icons load in (~400 games)
               | - when trying to install a game (delay until the install
               | dialog pops up)
               | 
               | The other slowness feels inconsequential, like when
               | opening a store page or launching a game - on par with
               | what you'd get when an average web app is loading or an
               | Electron app is being launched.
               | 
               | Pretty much every other store out there has been worse in
               | comparison, GOG Galaxy seems to be reasonably close to me
               | though, Origin and Epic are both slower in my experience.
        
               | Semaphor wrote:
               | OS? I don't have freezes, with more games (though most
               | are in closed categories). Galaxy is second best for me
               | as well, but it's also the only other app trying.
               | 
               | I don't remember any install freezes, but I wouldn't bet
               | on that one.
        
               | ladberg wrote:
               | Not OP but on Mac at least I find it wayyy faster to
               | browse the steam marketplace and community sites in
               | Safari or Chrome than in-app. Everything about it is slow
               | from loading pages to scrolling to clicking buttons.
        
               | Semaphor wrote:
               | Huh. Not an issue for me, but I use windows, maybe their
               | Mac app sucks?
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | Legendary's frontends are great cross-platform, but
           | especially if you're on Linux:
           | https://github.com/Dummerle/Rare
           | 
           | This one uses the native Qt library and less resources than
           | Steam.
        
             | iamcreasy wrote:
             | Is there any command line launcher for both Steam and Epic
             | Store games?
        
             | CodesInChaos wrote:
             | > Uses the native Qt library
             | 
             | It's described as a CLI in the readme you linked, so how
             | does it use Qt?
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Thanks for catching that, I updated it to link to Rare
               | (the Legendary frontend I use)
        
             | entropicdrifter wrote:
             | Also an excellent alternative (also for Linux initially,
             | but now on Windows and MacOS too) is Heroic Games Launcher:
             | https://heroicgameslauncher.com/
             | 
             | I started using it instead of Lutris for most of my non-
             | Steam installs and it _just works_ for the most part, which
             | is fantastic. Even auto-updates my GOG and EGS games.
        
               | codetrotter wrote:
               | Heroic is built with electron. Gross!
        
               | entropicdrifter wrote:
               | Still faster than using the Epic Store app. The GUI is
               | incredibly responsive
        
             | rickstanley wrote:
             | Lutris is also an alternative. They use GTK if I'm not
             | mistaken.
             | 
             | https://lutris.net/games/epic-games-store/
        
           | ryandvm wrote:
           | Also what kind of shitty launcher requires admin privileges
           | every time it runs?
        
             | andybak wrote:
             | Not denying it's shittiness but it doesn't do that for me.
        
             | m463 wrote:
             | maybe it's not just a launcher
        
           | Semaphor wrote:
           | I think they use the same devs as the Amazon prime twitch
           | gaming thing. It's just as slow.
        
             | Kiro wrote:
             | > Amazon prime twitch gaming thing
             | 
             | What are you referring to?
        
               | Semaphor wrote:
               | They have this free gaming app with Amazon prime that
               | changed names several times.
        
           | gramie wrote:
           | I use the GOG launcher, which centralizes my Steam, Epic, and
           | GOG games.
        
             | standardUser wrote:
             | You can play games you bought in the Epic store, and are
             | usually launched with the Epic launcher, without having the
             | Epic launcher installed??
        
         | standardUser wrote:
         | It's the pop up ads that irk me the most. Pop-up ads on a
         | Windows PC what in the actual fuck? Great way to make someone
         | truly and deeply hate you brand.
        
       | smolgumball wrote:
       | Happy to see Godot continuing it's climb as a viable engine. What
       | a journey it's been for the creators!
        
       | every wrote:
       | I've been waiting for this...
        
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       (page generated 2023-03-17 23:01 UTC)