[HN Gopher] Give babies peanut butter to cut peanut allergies, s...
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Give babies peanut butter to cut peanut allergies, study says
Author : tosh
Score : 572 points
Date : 2023-03-17 14:50 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
| cies wrote:
| Same holds true for most infectious diseases.
| KingLancelot wrote:
| [dead]
| petodo wrote:
| ...if they survive your experiment in the first place.
|
| Very dangerous advice, both of my kids have very strong reaction
| to nuts, even half nut is enough, so not sure when should I
| introduce them, interestingly both me and my wife like nuts and
| have no problems with them.
| mdwalters wrote:
| What if some of the babies were allergic to peanut butter in the
| first place?
| screye wrote:
| Does this effectively confirm the hygiene hypothesis ?
| The hygiene hypothesis suggests that a newborn baby's immune
| system must be educated so it will function properly during
| infancy and the rest of life.
|
| I'm weighing the need for my (possible future) children to spend
| time in a 3rd world country with germs & allergens for a little
| bit, to avoid heavily sanitized environments throughout their
| early lives. That's against the increased exposure to diseases
| and terrible pollution.
|
| clarification: This is ofc much easier to do when your family
| lives in said 3rd world country.
| morpheuskafka wrote:
| That's not quite the same thing, this is specifically about the
| allergen itself needing to be introduced vs. avoided. The
| "hygiene hypothesis" as you said is more a general idea that
| the immune system should be exposed to a wide variety of
| foreign or pathogenic material in early age.
|
| The avoidance of allergens was a deliberate thing under prior
| advice, and/or them being less common in the diet to begin
| with, it's not really a matter of hygiene or cleanliness.
| brwck wrote:
| > I'm weighing the need for my (possible future) children to
| spend time in a 3rd world country with germs & allergens for a
| little bit
|
| Or go outside with the kid. Visit a farm, park, whatever.
| [deleted]
| nradov wrote:
| You can say least let your children play in the dirt and expose
| them to a variety of animals without traveling to another
| country.
| rdedev wrote:
| Read somewhere that just getting a dog might be enough
| freddealmeida wrote:
| Peanut allergies are an emergent property. Causal understanding
| might be better than immunotherapy.
| jimbob45 wrote:
| Someone has already packaged this concept[0] with eight other
| allergens for kids in the form of oatmeal. We did it with ours
| and it seems to have worked out well. Sorry to be a shill but I
| figure this might help some other parents out there.
|
| [0]https://readysetfood.com/products/organic-baby-oatmeal
| pacetherace wrote:
| Peanut allergy prevalence is a very interesting topic
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6021584/
| schainks wrote:
| One caveat that has worked in our household: if your kid has
| eczema on their face anywhere near the mouth, put a good barrier
| on it before eating said allergens. Lanolin or vaseline work
| great.
| [deleted]
| Gordonjcp wrote:
| When I was a baby, I ate everything. When I was a toddler, I ate
| everything. As a child, I ate everything. Now I'm a grown-up (at
| least on paper), I eat everything. I'm not allergic to anything.
|
| When my son was a baby, he ate everything. Now he's a toddler,
| his second-favourite phrase is "I'll try some!" whenever there's
| some food. Some he likes, some he does not, but so far he's not
| turned out to be allergic to any of it. Pretty much, he eats
| everything.
| Madmallard wrote:
| how anout we instead pull literally all stops and figure out why
| so many people are developing a condition when their own inmune
| system tries to kill them when food enters their mouth??? The
| incidence is increasing dramatically. That's a far bigger
| problem.
| schainks wrote:
| In addition to Bamba, Puff Works in the US makes great peanut
| butter puffs for babies: https://puffworks.com/pages/baby
|
| IMO the baby ones should be in adult sized packaging, they taste
| better than the adult puffs!
| room505 wrote:
| I've heard that peanut butter is mainly an American thing. What
| would be an alternative to peanut butter in other cultures to cut
| peanut allergies?
| [deleted]
| 0xcde4c3db wrote:
| It's probably necessary to look up more specific info on one's
| local stuff to be sure that it's safe for babies and is
| actually made with peanuts, but peanut-based sauces and
| dressings are fairly widespread. Any place with major influence
| from south Asia or southeast Asia likely has some form of
| peanut chutney or satay sauce, for example.
| petodo wrote:
| I mean you can crush peanuts to powder and use however you
| want, just make sure to start with microscopic amounts and have
| strong anti-histamine at hand in case your kid is unlucky one
| like mine.
| chadash wrote:
| This is not new news, but nonetheless important to replicate and
| keep studying. I think the first often-cited study about this was
| in 2008 [1]. There are several more, including one in the New
| England Journal of Medicine in 2015 [2].
|
| Basically, the original study looked at Jewish kids in Israel
| versus the UK and saw that peanut allergies were about 10x lower
| in Israel, even though Jews of European background (Ashkenazi)
| there are fairly similar, genetically, to Ashkenazi Jews in the
| UK (the majority of both groups migrated recently from Central
| and Eastern Europe).
|
| There is a snack called Bamba that they eat in Israel. It's kind
| of like a peanut butter Cheeto puff, and it is a nearly-universal
| snack for young kids in Israel. It melts in your mouth, so a
| 6-month-old can eat it almost as soon as they eat solid foods.
| It's about as popular in Israel as Cheerios are in the US, maybe
| more so. The hypothesis is that Bamba consumption there
| dramatically lowers the risk of developing peanut allergies.
|
| [1] https://www.webofscience.com/wos/woscc/full-
| record/WOS:00026...
|
| [2] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa1414850
| michae2 wrote:
| Anecdotally, giving our baby Bamba was actually how we
| _discovered_ his peanut allergy, which was later confirmed by a
| traditional allergen skin test administered by a doctor. (We
| noticed puffy redness around his lips after his first piece of
| Bamba.)
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| Probably ok to eat a little to avoid peanut allergy, but be
| careful about eating too much poly-unsaturated fatty acids.
| They do a lot of long-term damage.
| ijustwanttovote wrote:
| Target sells Bambas in the USA. We bought it to feed our infant
| for the same reasons you mentioned.
| vorpalhex wrote:
| Bamba is also delicious. The fat content from the peanut butter
| gives it a good body, like a cheese puff.
|
| If you decide to get some for your kid, get some extra for
| yourself.
| ortusdux wrote:
| TJ's also sold some that were dipped in dark chocolate. They
| are the unholy hybrid of vanishing caloric density and a
| peanut butter cup.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| I'm pretty sure most of the fat content comes from the palm
| oil, but I don't disagree with your conclusion.
| perakojotgenije wrote:
| If you can't find Bamba but you have European or Balkan shop
| nearby you can try buying Smoki [1], it's the same thing.
|
| [1]
| https://www.google.com/search?q=smoki&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiE...
| pkaye wrote:
| TJs carries Bamba.
| taejo wrote:
| Looks like it's what's called Erdnussflips in Germany
| ars wrote:
| They researched bamba, but then recommended peanut butter.
|
| I remember reading that boiled and roasted peanuts have
| different allergen profiles, and are not interchangeable.
|
| If you want to do this with your child, use actual bamba, not
| peanut butter.
| hiidrew wrote:
| Man, I had an Israeli boss that turned me onto Bamba. Loved
| that stuff.
| [deleted]
| ladberg wrote:
| For anyone wondering, Trader Joe's sells these in the US!
| They're great, and they're "real" Bamba and not a TJ's replica.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Target sells them too:
|
| https://www.target.com/p/osem-bamba-peanut-butter-baby-
| puffs...
| poisonarena wrote:
| they are also somehow cheaper here than in Israel and it is
| infuriating to me
| savagedata wrote:
| I've found them at HEB and Randall's too!
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| Yep. We used that with our kid and he seems to have avoided
| peanut allergy. It also tastes pretty good! But, it didn't
| stop him from developing a walnut/pecan allergy. Probably
| because we don't really eat either of those in our house.
| gingerlime wrote:
| My child also has walnut/pecan allergy. I don't recall him
| eating much Bamba before (I'm from Israel originally, so it
| won't surprise me if he did). No peanut allergy luckily. It
| triggered when he was quite young after eating brownies
| with pecan/walnut.
| mcculley wrote:
| As someone who loves walnuts and pecans, I find this
| tragic. I had no idea that was a possible outcome. Sorry to
| hear that. I will advise new parents to investigate.
| nukeman wrote:
| I've found them at Publix in SC.
| latchkey wrote:
| https://www.traderjoes.com/home/products/pdp/058373
|
| "Bamba Peanut Snacks contain just four, simple ingredients:
| corn grits, peanut paste, palm oil, and salt."
| brewdad wrote:
| The palm oil is less than ideal but this isn't exactly
| health food to begin with.
| throwaway12245 wrote:
| >palm oil is less than ideal
|
| Why do you say this? Just curious. Palm oil is one of the
| better plant oils, no?
| scythe wrote:
| Palm oil generates an incredible amount of pollution in
| Internet comment sections whenever it is mentioned,
| because people don't realize that it's simply the most
| productive oil per unit acre by far. If not for
| Indonesian rainforest palm oil you'd need to cut down
| 2-3x as much Brazilian rainforest for soybeans or
| Phillippine rainforest for coconuts to meet the same
| demand. 71% of palm oil is consumed between the Caspian
| Sea and the Pacific. Approximately one-third is used for
| nonfood applications, particularly the Indonesian
| biodiesel industry, which if you wanted to do something
| about deforestation, you could pay them to stop doing
| that in particular.
|
| https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/palm-
| oil...
|
| It is a saturated fat, but it's being mixed with highly
| unsaturated peanut oil, so the whole-product average is
| probably insignificant.
| Swizec wrote:
| The main problem with palm oil isn't health afaik, it's
| the orangutan habitat destruction since most palm oil
| still comes from wild forests instead of farming.
|
| https://www.wwf.org.uk/updates/8-things-know-about-palm-
| oil
| supernova87a wrote:
| Palm oil is full of saturated fats isn't it?
| KingLancelot wrote:
| Palm oil harvesting is killing endangered orangutans.
| sph wrote:
| Massive amounts of inflammatory PUFAs.
|
| No, palm oil is terrible and everywhere in ultra
| processed food because it's extremely cheap.
|
| There are few healthy vegetable oils and they tend to be
| very expensive: olive, macadamia, coconut, etc.
|
| EDIT: I stand corrected, it has moderate amounts of PUFA,
| but terrible Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio (45/1), which is
| thought to have metabolic consequences.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| Canola oil is cheap and it improves health outcomes in
| humans despite twitter sophistry.
| zerocrates wrote:
| My understanding has been that it's cheap, saturated, and
| solid/stable, so it's a straightforward replacement for
| the hydrogenated oils that were previously being used in
| many of the same applications before the whole trans fat
| issue banished them.
| dghughes wrote:
| Massive harm of the environment by companies that farm
| it. Orangutans' habitat for one.
| [deleted]
| berry_sortoro wrote:
| [dead]
| robotnikman wrote:
| I love those things! I usually end up always grabbing a bag
| when I go shopping there.
| tshaddox wrote:
| How serendipitous! I just saw these at my Trader Joe's for
| the first time a week or two ago and I've been addicted to
| them.
| spelunker wrote:
| They're delicious by the way, once you get over the fact that
| they look a lot like Cheetos.
| gimmeThaBeet wrote:
| I was seeing that, I was a bit surprised that it seemed like
| the actual branded product. My habit is to figure out who
| makes that kind of stuff, when I saw Osem, I was thinking
| "how haven't they been acquired by some behemoth?" And then
| quickly found "ah nevermind, nestle"
|
| Peanut butter cheetos sounds like an incredible proposition,
| I'm going to be looking around for them this weekend!
| gnicholas wrote:
| I love cheetos and pb (I even put PB powder in my
| smoothies), but having tried these many times, they are not
| very tasty. I understand that some people who at them a lot
| as very little kids continue to like them as adults. But
| they have never been tempting to me, even when we had them
| in the house for the purpose of feeding them to our babies.
| bombcar wrote:
| Trader Joes (and Costco) are just fine selling branded
| product if they can get a deal for it cheap enough. It's
| usually the manufacturer that doesn't want to "cheapen
| their brand" to hit the price points, but they're willing
| to "bulk up" for Costco or sell direct to Trader Joes at
| times.
| logicfiction wrote:
| Also a lot of things at Trader Joes are just white
| labeled versions of other products. As in, literally the
| same product, just inside packaging that says "Trader
| Joe's <Similar Name to Other Product>"
| bombcar wrote:
| Those are the companies that don't want to admit selling
| their stuff for cheaper, so they get it store-branded.
| fsckboy wrote:
| you say it like it's a sort of corporate slut-shaming,
| but it's not. If you build a factory big enough to make
| 1/2 the cheese puffs in the world, there's an incentive
| to make it bigger and make all the cheese puffs in the
| world. Going from small batch bake/frying to assembly
| line flow is the 1st step, but once you're over that
| hurdle, you might as well go big, as long as you can
| handle the risk of being stuck with the risk of owning
| the 2nd biggest cheese puff tumbler in the world. That
| type of cooking is a natural monopoly.
|
| that's the factory, but brands don't come from the
| factory, they come from the market, and have different
| reputations, strategies, customers and distribution
| channels. If you have a giant computer controlled cheese
| puffery, it's not that big a deal to change the
| formulation of the cheese, change the logo bags, etc. all
| on the fly, and it's much cheaper for you to do it than a
| smaller less sophisticated operation making you more
| customizable and still the low-cost producer.
|
| did you know that even if you aren't a very big pizzeria
| or bakery you can order custom-milled flour from King
| Arthur for your restaurant? Their factory can handle it,
| and it engenders brand loyalty from fussy chefs.
| bombcar wrote:
| I have no problem with it myself; but the
| companies/brands certainly do.
|
| Lots of national brands have a "this is not produced in a
| factory or machine that produces any store brand".
| ghaff wrote:
| >did you know that even if you aren't a very big pizzeria
| or bakery you can order custom-milled flour from King
| Arthur for your restaurant? Their factory can handle it,
| and it engenders brand loyalty from fussy chefs.
|
| I didn't. Although I'm not that surprised given I think
| King Arthur Flour has maybe around 500 employees or so
| including a cafe, retail shop, and cooking classes and
| sells a pretty premium product. (Was actually surprised
| the number is so low. It's also employee-owned.)
| werber wrote:
| CNBC has a youtube video on the economics of Trader Joe's
| and the piece that stuck out to me is that they will have
| essentially a white label option, but have it slightly
| modified so it is "unique" to them
| maccard wrote:
| Ive got family who have worked in food production lines,
| it's often not the same product, maybe a slightly
| modified recipe or using different ingredients or ratios.
| bombcar wrote:
| Yeah, sometimes they mix it up enough to claim it's not
| the same, sometimes it's even openly branded as being the
| same (think Costco tortilla chips)
|
| https://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/kirkland-
| signature-to...
| blarghyblarg wrote:
| I can't reply to the deeper comments, so I'll reply here.
| The "store branded" products are also sometimes the exact
| same stuff, but they pay less (or the premium brands pay
| a premium) to have "first run" rights. That is, the
| premium brands are packaged first, right after a
| cleaning, so you're less likely to have "inclusions" like
| chunks of tomato goop in your ketchup.
| the_mar wrote:
| That's not always true. I actually don't know how true it
| is at all. At least in facilities that I know about,
| everything was manufactured exactly the same, there was
| no such thing as "first run after cleaning", as far as I
| know "first run" premium has more to do with volumes and
| scheduling (e.g. at a candy factory you'll get priority
| to get your orders filled before halloween) or if any
| equipment goes down your orders will always be
| prioritized
| miriam_catira wrote:
| We went on a factory tour at Cabot Creamery in VT several
| years ago, and they were packaging an off-label that day.
| The guide didn't specify what store it was for, but we
| thought we recognized it. When we went to TJ's the next
| week, we saw that same exact packaging on the shelves.
| the_mar wrote:
| Many years ago I worked at a candy company. I tell you
| more. MOST of "private label" stuff is actually
| manufactured by the same company as the "name brand",
| what is more companies routinely manufacture stuff for
| each other depending on the factory loads, e.g. our plant
| would manufacture Reese's despite having no relation to
| the brand and it's a very common practice.
| stametseater wrote:
| I've seen Trader Joes selling branded canned chili
| (Stagg) and the cashier remarked that they were only
| stocking it that week for the super bowl.
| Arrath wrote:
| Yeah I have to say those sound excellent. Time to go
| hunting.
| subpixel wrote:
| It's a full-on trend in the US to feed these to your baby to
| prevent peanut allergies. My daughter probably ate her own
| weight in Bamba.
| lacrosse_tannin wrote:
| Maybe all the allergic infants died and didn't make it into the
| study.
| darzu wrote:
| Considering peanut allergies are ~1:50 - 1:200, that would be
| a lot of dead infants and I think that would show up in stats
| and news.
| cmurf wrote:
| As popular as it is, I wonder if there's effectively
| microdosing happening from baby's 1st week, even before they
| eat it themselves?
| afterburner wrote:
| Good question, I mean how many people were actually feeding
| Cheeto puffs to their 6 month old _before_ it became a health
| trend
| stametseater wrote:
| The peanut allergy hysteria narrative says that I can't eat
| peanuts on a plane or in a classroom with somebody who's
| allergic because the mere odor of peanuts might kill them.
| If there is any shred of truth to that narrative (which I
| seriously doubt), then perhaps trace peanut dust in a home
| from adults eating crunchy peanut-based snacks is enough
| early exposure to inhibit an allergic reaction.
| hgsgm wrote:
| You mean from exposure to other kids?
| cmurf wrote:
| Mom, dad, siblings. Anyone snacking on it will have it on
| their faces, finger tips. It'll get on the counters and
| floor. And find its way on a bottle nipple, blankets,
| sheets, fingers, etc.
| PebblesRox wrote:
| My guess is through breast milk - which I was wondering
| about with the study as well; does it make a difference for
| breastfed babies whether their moms eat a lot of peanuts?
| myshpa wrote:
| Anecdotal: a pregnant woman ate a lot of the stuff
| (something similar to Bamba) when pregnant, and I mean a
| lot. The child was diagnosed with peanut allergy when 1
| y.o.
|
| Solution? Peanut microdosing, increasing dose
| progressively, in few months the allergy was gone.
| newaccount74 wrote:
| Anecdote from my partner: Allergies come and go, they're
| not necessarily permanent even if you don't treat them.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| That's fascinating! In ex-Yugoslavia (Bosnia and Croatia in my
| case) we were raised on Smoki which looks very similar!
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoki
| myth_drannon wrote:
| Yeah, in USSR we also had these corn puffs(Kukuruznye
| Palochki). Bamba is different despite looking the same. It
| has very "peanutty" taste (and ingridient) unlike the corn
| puffs which are just sweet.
| itronitron wrote:
| was this research funded by the maker of Bamba?
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| I always joke to new parents that they should adopt this
| strategy. Glad to see I was right!
| tablespoon wrote:
| > There is a snack called Bamba that they eat in Israel. It's
| kind of like a peanut butter Cheeto puff, and it is a nearly-
| universal snack for young kids in Israel. It melts in your
| mouth, so a 6-month-old can eat it almost as soon as they eat
| solid foods. It's about as popular in Israel as Cheerios are in
| the US, maybe more so. The hypothesis is that Bamba consumption
| there dramatically lowers the risk of developing peanut
| allergies.
|
| Target sells these "Lil Mixins" sachets that contain peanut
| powder. They're designed to mix in to milk or oatmeal, etc. The
| packaging says you can use them with kids as young as 4 months.
| They also sell similar sachets of tree nuts and egg powder.
| flerchin wrote:
| With the incidence rate being so low, all the anecdata in this
| thread is largely worthless. I'm not equipped to evaluate the
| quality of the study.
| OOPMan wrote:
| As a South African in Canada the nut restriction in schools here
| is incredibly annoying.
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| I always wondered how kids end up with pollen allergies. I mean
| who doesn't take their kid outside in the spring?
|
| Or is the offending pollen only endemic to certan areas, so you
| could grow up in a normal way somewhere and still get it?
|
| I'm not strongly allergic to anything, but certain mosquitoes and
| also horseflies will make the bite swell up a ridiculous amount
| sometimes. But it never happened with the mosquitoes and
| horseflies where I grew up and still doesn't when I visit.
|
| But I'm also allergic to certain soaps starting in my 20s, yet
| I'm pretty sure my parents gave me plenty of baths as a baby. It
| did occur after a course of antibiotics, maybe that helped
| trigger it somehow.
| nerdponx wrote:
| > Or is the offending pollen only endemic to certan areas, so
| you could grow up in a normal way somewhere and still get it?
|
| This happened to me. I never had seasonal allergies growing up
| in New York, but in Massachusetts I am brutally allergic to
| whatever pollen is in the air in the spring and fall.
|
| I also never was allergic to my pet cats until I went away to
| college and wasn't constantly exposed to cat hair. I first
| started getting itchy eyes when they slept on my bed after I
| came back home to visit.
|
| > It did occur after a course of antibiotics, maybe that helped
| trigger it somehow.
|
| This doesn't surprise me at all. I'm glad the research is
| finally starting to catch up to this kind of thing too. People
| with issues like this have been pooh-poohed out of doctors'
| offices for decades.
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| Actually thinking back... I _think_ my first experience
| having the reaction to mosquitoes was vacationing in Denmark
| at 15, and at 14 I had burst appendecitis with moderately
| progressed peritonitis that required extensive laparotomy
| with a hefty antibiotic course to prevent progression to
| fullblown sepsis. The infection even flared up weeks later(or
| it was a new infection) and I had to do another course on a
| different antibiotic this time. It was around 15 that my
| mental health really started to deteriorate too.
|
| The one mentioned earlier was at age 20 due to severe
| pneumonia. And my mental health took yet another nosedive
| after that as well.
|
| The appendix interacts with the gut microbiome and the immune
| system, which interact with eachother, and both have been
| linked to mental illness in various ways.
|
| I always felt like all these things were somehow connected
| but I could never quite nail it down. I asked my GP once but
| she gave me a look that could only mean "who do you think I
| am, Greg House?" And very little concrete came of it.
|
| The allergies might be the "signal" that helps give weight to
| this theory beyond my fool's hope that it can all be cured
| with a fecal transplant or something.
| eindiran wrote:
| Anaphylactic allergies, particularly food-based ones, seem to
| have a rather different etiology than other allergies.
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| Is an anaphylactic allergy just an allergy severe enough to
| cause anaphylactic shock, or does it denote a different
| mechanism altogether?
| nr2x wrote:
| Yes! Give your kids bamba! Israeli friends told me about how they
| basically have no peanut allergies and the science backs it. Made
| sure my kid ate it, and so far so good. I think it's a gross
| snack but he loves it.
| cortesoft wrote:
| My kids still eat them at 4 and 7.
| soperj wrote:
| Somehow all the studies end up being on jewish kids in Isreal vs.
| jewish kids in England. Not exactly a representative sample of
| people across the globe. The studies themselves have all the
| hallmarks of shit science, but everyone on here seems to agree
| with it because it fits their world view.
| s1k3 wrote:
| Well the opposite view isn't really based on science , only in
| faulty risk mitigation. So is it riskier to let your kid go
| without knowing for a long time or is it better to test in a
| limited controlled window where you can react and adapt if
| something goes wrong.
| soperj wrote:
| Neither is based on Science when the science is shit.
| P-hacking isn't science, and yet it gets published as Science
| all the time, particularly in nutrition studies.
| rabidonrails wrote:
| But that's exactly why this is so interesting. You take a set
| of people with extremely similar genetics but somehow have very
| different reactions.
|
| I suppose a technical (albeit not precise) analogy would be you
| producing 100 servers and selling half to both AWS and Azure.
| Then you find out that 25 of the servers at Azure are
| overheating and dying while AWS doesn't seem to have this
| problem at all. So you look into it and find that AWS is air-
| cooling their systems while Azure isn't. Sure you could argue
| post post hoc ergo propter hoc but you'd also probably call the
| folks at Azure and tell them to install an air-cooling system.
|
| Extrapolating that to your point, you're saying it would be
| "shit" to tell the folks at Azure to install the air-cooling
| because you didn't test this acrossa majority of servers you've
| produced. The folks at Azure would point the incredible
| similarities (this is the same server model, the same chips,
| the same manufacturing run etc.) and then would promptly find
| another vendor.
| soperj wrote:
| > But that's exactly why this is so interesting. You take a
| set of people with extremely similar genetics but somehow
| have very different reactions.
|
| Or it's based on a hundred different other things than when
| they first tried peanut butter.
| nukeman wrote:
| The entire point was looking at very similar populations, but
| controlling for one variable (peanut product consumption in
| early childhood). While I agree that the studies should be
| expanded outward to ensure reproducibility and verify the
| hypothesis, a useful starting point is to look at two similar
| populations with only one variable.
| soperj wrote:
| That original study was made 8 or 9 years ago now, and
| they're following it up with an additional study of jewish
| kids in britain and israel here. If you look at the study,
| they're trying to determine why early exposure to peanut
| butter has not decreased the incidence of allergy in
| Australia. Somehow a study of Jewish kids in Israel & Britain
| is supposed to prove this out.
| conorcleary wrote:
| But not honey! Not until infants are over a year old.
| ilickpoolalgae wrote:
| My kid is allergic to peanuts (we did a peanut butter test at
| about 5 months and had to rush him to the ER as his face started
| swelling up). Food allergies are a really interesting subject
| because it doesn't seem entirely reliant on genetics. For example
| East Asians have an extremely low rate of peanut allergies, but
| East Asians who grow up in western countries tend to have an
| equal or higher rate of peanut allergies compared to the general
| populace. Strangely enough, children that move to Australia after
| the early infancy period seem to retain the same low rate of
| peanut allergies as children who spend their entire time in
| China. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26728850/
|
| There's a great clinic in the bay area called Latitude that
| conducts oral immunotherapy which is a fancy word, afaik, to do
| slow introduction to foods that you're allergic to. My child is
| on a 6 month program that he started at 1 year old to slowly
| increase his peanut consumption, via peanut flour, to a couple
| peanuts a day.
| adamredwoods wrote:
| We also tried to give our child (when a baby) peanut butter
| early and was rushed to the ER. Terrifying.
| chunk_waffle wrote:
| I'm wondering why the article doesn't point out that risk
| either. If your child is 3-5 months old and is severely
| allergic (but you don't know it yet) it seems like they could
| have a severe reaction to even a small amount of peanuts.
| chunk_waffle wrote:
| > For example East Asians have an extremely low rate of peanut
| allergies, but East Asians who grow up in western countries
| tend to have an equal or higher rate of peanut allergies
| compared to the general populace.
|
| Interesting... my wife is East Asian and has no history of
| Peanut allergies in her family. Same for my family (Caucasian,
| US) yet our daughter is allergic.
|
| My wife also ate a lot of peanut butter while pregnant...
| brianherbert wrote:
| Same here, no peanut allergies on both sides of our family
| but one of our daughters has a peanut allergy. We are the
| same mix.
| petodo wrote:
| Yeah, it doesn't seem to be hereditary, both me (European
| Caucasian) and my wife (Chinese Asian) have 0 problems with
| nuts and can crunch them as much we want (same with everyone in
| direct line), but both of our kids have very strong nut allergy
| (not just peanuts, also pistachios, walnuts and especially
| cashew nuts) with immediate swelling, whole body red, very
| dangerous, even just piece of peanut. Also interestingly son
| spent 1st year of life in China, while daughter was born in
| Europe and it doesn't seem to make any difference.
|
| Before I had kids I heard in Europe about peanut allergies only
| from US movies and TV shows and never met person who would be
| allergic to them, so was shocked to find my kids having such
| "made up" US allergy.
| xyzzyz wrote:
| Very interesting. While the theory that most peanut allergy is
| caused by no exposure in infancy is well supported by the
| evidence, seems like it's definitely not the entire story,
| given your experience -- after all, you could hardly have a lot
| of exposure in children to peanuts earlier than 5 months! I
| don't think we were feeding our kids solid foods at 5 months
| yet at all, so definitely they had no peanut exposure yet, but
| nevertheless they don't suffer from allergies. The evidence you
| are pointing to about disparate rates of allergy for children
| growing up in different places is also very interesting. Sounds
| like there just is something in the air, or dirt, or daily
| practices, or whatever else it is, that causes those allergic
| immune reactions at elevated rates in western nations.
| blondin wrote:
| has anyone looked into the source of the peanut products?
| sounds like the US is dis-proportionately affected by these
| allergies.
| hammock wrote:
| >you could hardly have a lot of exposure in children to
| peanuts earlier than 5 months!
|
| Don't have a baby, but couldn't you put a few drops of
| unrefined peanut oil in the bottle? Or a quarter teaspoon of
| peanut butter?
| rdedev wrote:
| Exposure need not come from only peanuts. Other compounds or
| organisms can have similar structures. My hypothesis for why
| allergy is more prevalent in the US mostly comes down to how
| clean everyone keeps their homes. Clean as in using clorox or
| other anti bacterial over all surface clean. Stuff like that
| are rarely done in Asian countries. But hey, I'm not a
| scientist so I am possibly wrong or missing something
| nickelpro wrote:
| > the theory that most peanut allergy is caused by no
| exposure in infancy is well supported by the evidence
|
| The evidence supports this as one source of allergies. The
| cited study says 77% of such allergies may be sourced to lack
| of exposure, that still means almost 1/4 people with peanut
| allergies have them "naturally"
| jraines wrote:
| Same experience. My wife ate extra peanut butter while
| pregnant and nursing (offtopic but maybe relevant), and we
| tried giving my daughter the tiniest dab of peanut butter
| very early, and the reaction was nuts. We watched with rising
| panic as the inflammation started at her mouth, traced down
| throat and chest to stomach, and spread, in what seemed like
| real time.
|
| She is 3 now has to have an epipen ready to go. 2nd girl: no
| issues at all - same house, basic maternal diet, vaccine
| schedule, etc
| le-mark wrote:
| Same here, nearly killed our son at 5 months with a few
| crumbs of peanut butter cookie. Other kid no problem.
| Really seems like there's more to it than simply early
| exposure.
| Balgair wrote:
| Adding our horrific experience here too. Gave our baby a
| little bit of peanut powder at 7 months. About 2 hours
| later, vomiting like crazy, turned about as grey as a
| rain cloud, rushed to the ER blowing through stoplights.
|
| We have never been so scared in our whole lives. Facing
| the very real loss of a child due to your own hand is a
| thing you never want to go through. I unreservedly have
| some good trauma from that experience. Took about a week
| to get back to normal, the dehydration was so bad and
| they could not get a vein for IV fluids.
|
| We carry an epi-pen everywhere now.
|
| Fun Fact: Allergy tests (IgG and skin prick) have a ~10%
| false negative rate and a ~50% false positive rate (!!!).
| LUmBULtERA wrote:
| Adding to this list here as well... momma had peanut
| butter and jelly sandwiches nearly daily while pregnant
| and breastfeeding, and yet my son's first exposure to
| peanut butter as soon as he was able to safely have solid
| food showed he was allergic.
| canes123456 wrote:
| As with all things it not a panacea. The studies only see
| that peanut allergies decrease with early exposure.
| However, there always some kids that will have or not
| have allergies in both groups.
| geraldwhen wrote:
| Same here. Early introduction -> emergency room.
| iddan wrote:
| It's a cliche by this point. But it was proven in research that
| because peanut puffs (most common brand name is "Bamba") snacks
| are so common in Israel the rate of peanut allergy is so low
| robg wrote:
| The research on peanut butter puffs in Israel convinced us small
| amounts were far better for our young kids than avoiding
| completely.
|
| https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02782-8
| yamtaddle wrote:
| Been a suspicion of many for quite a while that the rise of
| "don't give babies nuts or nut-based products, they might die!"
| advice and going from one nut allergy per school to one per class
| wasn't coincidental, but was caused by precisely that reduction
| in early exposure. Folk-wisdom nets a win, this time, I suppose.
| CatWChainsaw wrote:
| In addition to other societal trends about helicopter
| parenting, I could see parents extrapolating danger from honey
| to other substances out of fear, out of lack of information.
|
| (In case anyone's curious. Honey contains spores of Clostridium
| botulinum, the bacterium responsible for botulism/botulinum
| toxin aka the world's deadliest molecule. People over the age
| of 1 can ingest honey safely. Infants need time to build up
| their immune systems.)
| ajross wrote:
| Nitpick: it's the gut flora, not the immune system. Adults
| can ingest botulinum safely because in our guts it gets out-
| competed by the existing microbes that have been living there
| for years. Infants haven't developed that gut ecosystem yet,
| so the bad bacteria can find a home and start making toxins.
| CatWChainsaw wrote:
| Ah, right, thanks.
|
| I suppose that means I'd be helping my own gut flora if I
| had more probiotic foods, but I'm generally not fond of
| sour tastes.
| jacooper wrote:
| I'm hitting a redirect loop between bbc.com and bbc.com.uk?
| rc_mob wrote:
| Ha I did this. Snuck in PB and "rub dirt on their face" as young
| as 6 months. 2 kids and no allergies.
| kazinator wrote:
| Bonus: if you give four-month-olds tiny tastes of the crap shown
| in the stock picture, they might also avoid allergies to corn
| starch and hydrogenated vegetable oil.
| modeless wrote:
| If your infant has a reaction to peanut or other foods, doctors
| will probably tell you to avoid that food completely and wait
| until they are older to see if the allergy goes away. This is
| _exactly wrong_ , just like the old advice to avoid early
| introduction.
|
| It is actually quite likely that you can help your infant outgrow
| their allergy with oral immunotherapy (simply eating the food,
| but in strictly controlled amounts). Recent research is showing
| that oral immunotherapy is dramatically more effective and safer
| for infants than older kids or adults. Every month that goes by
| reduces the chance of success, so start immediately (with the
| help of an allergist, not on your own) as soon as you discover a
| food allergy.
|
| Also, treating allergies promptly (as well as eczema) may reduce
| your child's chance of progressing to hay fever and asthma later,
| as well.
| pksohn wrote:
| I have a two year old with a moderate peanut allergy. I'm
| convinced that early introduction at 6 months and oral
| immunotherapy have saved him from a more severe allergy.
|
| Interestingly, multiple allergists we've spoken to have alluded
| to a recent theory (not sure if supported by the literature) that
| a child is more likely to develop an allergy if the allergen is
| first introduced through the skin than through the gut,
| especially if the skin exposure involves inflammation like
| eczema. Their advice was to make sure new allergens get in the
| mouth and not all over the skin early on.
| sofixa wrote:
| How and why would peanuts get all over the skin? Are there
| peanut-based creams or something?
| wil421 wrote:
| Oh man! Let me tell you something...I have 3 kids 3 and under
| and spaghetti nights are crazy. My 3 year old is better but
| my 1.5 year old is a hot mess. He has to be shitless during
| most meals or else the shirt isn't going to last. Everything
| is smeared on his face and arms when he eats, even with a
| watchful parent it only takes half a second.
|
| We've noticed spaghetti sauce will start to give him a rash
| on his belly only.
|
| My 5 month old had beets last night for the first time and a
| full bath was not optional.
| ubj wrote:
| I can confirm this. I have two kids under 4 along with
| several nieces and nephews. Kids are unbelievably messy
| when they first learn to eat. Food ends up in places you
| never thought imaginable. Mealtimes always involve a "blast
| radius" of food products spilled / smeared / dropped /
| thrown / regurgitated.
| codexb wrote:
| Because peanuts are oily as all get out and every young kid
| that eats peanut butter is literally covered in it and will
| rub it on everything they touch, including kids that don't
| eat peanuts yet.
| dontomasini wrote:
| Not news, but yes, early introduction of allergens is best to
| reduce/mitigate allergies.
|
| The only approved treatment of peanut allergy is basically
| nothing else than slightly roasted peanut protein packed up in
| appropriate sized packages that increase the dose slowly.
|
| Given the prevalence of peanut allergy and other allergies in the
| US vs. RoW I found it interesting that a product like SpoonfulONE
| recently announced they would stop sales in the US due to low
| interest and focus on RoW.
| tohnjitor wrote:
| After confirming we had no history of nut allergies in either
| family, our pediatrician gave us a free sample of a peanut
| butter/apple sauce baby food when my daughter was ~3 or 4 months
| old. I must have spent hundreds of dollars on the stuff over time
| because it was her favorite. Unfortunately the brand seems to no
| longer exist. https://my-peanut.com
|
| My wife now makes the baby food from scratch since with triplets
| it would become quite expensive quite quickly to buy premade.
| Those My Peanut pouches were awfully convenient though.
|
| When did the apparent uptick in peanut allergies begin? There was
| no one in my entire school (~1,000 students) with a severe peanut
| allergy but now peanuts are banned entirely from campus. Did
| peanuts change or did children change>
| AlanSE wrote:
| From 2005 until now, rates of peanut allergies have increased
| 2-fold or more in the US. Similar for tree nuts. Anecdotally,
| it feels like more. There's a huge generational shift even
| among recent parents, where it feels like a problem just didn't
| have very long ago, but we do now.
|
| It's true that we had bad advice to not introduce peanuts which
| provably made the problem worse (and has now been reversed),
| but this is only part of the problem. Papers on the subject
| make clear that are other countries that are not doing
| intentional early-introduction (which we are now in the US) and
| don't have the problem.
|
| It's also abundantly clear from the research that the
| population-scale problem is 100% environmental... as you would
| expect since the SAME POPULATION saw rates go through the roof
| in a decade. It's something we did, environmentally, and we
| don't know what.
|
| It also feels frustrating that the medical profession seems
| overwhelmingly incurious about discovering whatever it is we're
| doing that is literally harming children.
| myshpa wrote:
| Same with gluten allergy. I've come across the opinion that
| the problem isn't really the gluten, but the pesticides.
|
| Something similar may be to blame here.
| llimllib wrote:
| If you do this, be prepared with benadryl and be ready to handle
| the situation if your kid does have an allergy.
|
| Speaking from experience, here. Wife is an ER doc and it was
| still a scary situation. (He's fine, but still has the allergy 7
| years later)
| zwieback wrote:
| Similar experience, our first kid ate peanut butter happily for
| two years or so, then developed more and more of an allergy. It
| was gradual, basically the reverse experience of developing a
| tolerance as many others experience.
| mirsadm wrote:
| Yeah we gave our 6 month old peanut butter and ended up in
| hospital. This happened during the Covid lockdowns so it was
| quite scary. The recommendation here is to give them the food
| and see if they are allergic. I'm not sure I would follow that
| guideline again.
| weberer wrote:
| Nowadays your doctor can just take a small blood sample and
| run a battery of allergy tests on that.
| QIYGT wrote:
| I don't think that's common. Our pediatrician, who is part
| of a US major hospital, never mentioned this and basically
| said "introduce new foods on days without much going on in
| case you need to go to the ER."
| Balgair wrote:
| IgG and skin prick test have a ~10% false negative rate and
| a ~50% false positive rate.
|
| You have to work really hard with a really good allergist
| to get reliable results.
| LesZedCB wrote:
| blood tests aren't very reliable like that. i have been
| with my partner to the immunologist many times over the
| years and observed skin prick tests and seen blood test
| results and watched her get epipen'd after a bad prick
| test.
|
| she will go into anaphylaxis if you wear a jacket you
| brought to somebody's house who has a cat.
|
| her blood work says the IgE count is fairly low.
|
| they can indicate more testing should be done, but they
| aren't perfect. neither are skin prick tests. i can dig up
| some of her reddit comments about it if you're interested.
| CadmiumYellow wrote:
| I had a bunch of allergy blood tests after having an
| allergic reaction to kiwi fruit. My results came back
| "severely allergic" to almond and sesame, both of which I
| have eaten all my life with zero issues. No antibodies to
| any of the pollen I am actually allergic to or to kiwi. I
| didn't show any allergies to anything when they gave me a
| skin prick test either, despite having had hay fever my
| entire life, which was ultimately the cause of the kiwi
| allergy via oral allergy syndrome. The doctor basically
| shrugged and told me "allergy testing is more of an art
| than a science."
| itronitron wrote:
| Yeah, I think there is some other factor that is driving the
| increase in incidence of peanut allergies. Wife eating peanut
| butter while nursing doesn't seem to have prevented our
| oldest child from having a severe peanut allergy. edit-->
| didn't expect to be downvoted for this comment, lol
| yread wrote:
| Same here, started with peanut butter and egg for a 4 month
| old. Now has allergies for both. I guess it works across
| populations. Or the research is wrong
| wil421 wrote:
| I have 3 kids 3 and under, no twins. We did a similar thing
| around 5-6 months. They hate eggs with a passion but no
| allergies. About to start the peanut butter trials with my
| 5 month old.
|
| We did the same with shrimp and oysters. My son loves
| seafood gumbo and made a whole restaurant turn around when
| he first tried it. He loves it.
|
| Have you stopped trying allergic foods?
| modeless wrote:
| Benadryl can reduce itching and hives but it _will not_ treat
| the life-threatening parts of an anaphylactic reaction
| (suffocation from tongue /throat swelling and/or dangerously
| low blood pressure). Epinephrine is the only thing that can
| save you from anaphylaxis, and it should be given early to stop
| the reaction _before_ it spirals out of control. Don 't give
| Benadryl and think that you're safe, call 911 immediately on
| _any_ sign of swelling or breathing difficulty or lethargy from
| low blood pressure.
|
| All that said, you absolutely should give peanut butter (and
| other allergens) early and often. If you don't, you're signing
| your kid up for much worse odds of anaphylaxis later. The good
| news is fatal anaphylaxis is extremely rare even in people with
| confirmed food allergies, and even lower in infants than older
| kids and adults. Even when anaphylaxis occurs epinephrine is
| extremely effective, so anaphylaxis deaths are almost always
| due to failure to treat with epinephrine. So just make sure
| that you have access to prompt medical treatment if you need it
| (i.e. not camping in the mountains far from any hospital), and
| give those allergens ASAP.
| jaywalk wrote:
| I've heard a recommendation to do this in an ER parking lot for
| this reason.
| Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote:
| Do you give them a heads up first or just say yolo and hope
| everyone survives?
| myshpa wrote:
| We managed to reduce the child's allergy by using
| nano/microdosing and increasing the dose over several
| weeks/months until it practically disappeared.
|
| Avoiding allergens and hoping the child grows into
| adulthood (with allergies) didn't seem like a very good
| strategy to us.
|
| Being afraid of accidental exposure and epipens and stuff,
| no fun.
| s1k3 wrote:
| The idea is you basically just touch their lips with a dab at
| first, so if there is any sort of reaction it isn't life
| threatening. Then you increase a bit, etc.
| TheCapn wrote:
| Depending on how the hospital operates and whether there is a
| reason to be concerned some pediatric units will allow you to
| do the introduction on-unit. I'm sure things can change day
| to day, but that's the case for the hospital my wife works
| at, and is what we were advised to do when we're going to
| attempt some food re-introductions in a few months for our
| child.
| nbaugh1 wrote:
| Yeah, I have a peanut allergy which isn't super severe and used
| to have an egg allergy. My mom is a nurse fortunately and knew
| how to react when I had reactions as an infant. I think my
| peanut allergy has gotten less severe over time, but is
| definitely still there, and I'm 100% fine with eggs despite
| them giving me welts on my skin as a baby
| surfsvammel wrote:
| When my kids were babies, we drove and parked outside the ER. We
| then game them taste portions of all kinds of food that normally
| is associated with allergies.
|
| We then waited a while, then drove back home.
|
| We did that twice with a couple of months in between.
|
| Some called us crazy :)
| dzonga wrote:
| are scientists lazy these days ?
|
| cz surely this, didn't need a study for.
|
| this has been obvious for hundreds / thousands of years.
|
| simply: expose your kids to the whole spectrum of food as soon as
| they're weaned. free range kids.
| taeric wrote:
| This is a weird one to me. I had these allergies confirmed
| medically before I was 1. Almost died from reactions to the smell
| of foods I later had to avoid. Skin was irritated by cotton, such
| that I was hard to get to sleep.
|
| That said, I have outgrown pretty much all allergies. And super
| grateful that my kids are free of any. Super curious to see new
| learning on this.
| nerpderp82 wrote:
| > Food allergies are the result of our immune system mistaking
| something harmless for a severe threat.
|
| If you IDS has never seen X and X is unlike anything it has seen,
| it will probably flag it.
|
| > There had been long-standing advice to avoid foods that can
| trigger allergies during early childhood. At one point, families
| were once told to avoid peanut until their child was three years
| old.
|
| This advice was never based on science.
|
| Cultures where infants are fed on the same broad spectrum of
| foods that adults eat have MUCH lower incidence of allergies.
| France and Israel to name two.
|
| Datapoint of 1, I started giving my own child chewed up food I
| was eating at about 2.5 months. She was eyeballing some chicken I
| was eating, I popped it out of my mouth, offered it to her and
| she ravenously devoured it.
|
| A couple weeks later, I wiped a small amount of peanut butter on
| her lip and checked for any allergic reaction, then proceeded to
| slowly ramp the amount the next day.
|
| Same thing with shellfish. I am not suggesting anyone else do
| this, but it worked for us.
|
| Train how you live as soon as possible.
| sdflhasjd wrote:
| On the other hand, my mum did the same to me with muesli and I
| developed a nut allergy.
| the_mar wrote:
| yeah 70% not 100% some people will still develop allergies
| mburee wrote:
| Could also be related to hay fever if you have that. [1]
|
| I had allergies for basically all my life but the food stuff
| only started at around 10 or 11 years. Now I can't really eat
| any uncooked fruit, vegetables or nuts. Interestingly enough,
| most citrus fruit are just fine, something with not being
| exposed to those pollen maybe...
|
| [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_allergy_syndrome
| hinkley wrote:
| Did I not read at some point that nursing mother eating the
| allergenic foods offer some benefits to the child as well?
| darth_avocado wrote:
| This is one of those grandma's tales that I've heard. Feeding
| pregnant women (and nursing mothers) a diet that is varied in
| nature allows the child to be healthier and allergy free.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| guywithabike wrote:
| Not sure how widespread this advice is, but my son's
| pediatrician had us start introducing peanut butter before he
| was eating solids by adding progressively more peanut butter to
| his bottle. So it feels like this is becoming the recommended
| approach to avoiding food allergies.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| It's become more widespread guidance in the last decade.
| There are a few studies iirc comparing cousins living in the
| UK as opposed to Israel. The Israeli kids get a peanut based
| cracker as a common snack and have much lower incidence of
| peanut allergies.
|
| I think in the US the issue is that there isn't a ton of
| published material on it. My info may be out of date as my
| kids are well past this stage.
| fullstop wrote:
| One thing to be careful about here, and I don't have any
| data or skin in the game here, is survivorship bias. It
| would be worth noting the difference in deaths from
| anaphylactic shock in very early childhood by country.
|
| I guess what I'm getting at is that you might not be
| counted as having a peanut allergy if you're dead.
| tinco wrote:
| Where I live (The Netherlands) we had multiple child care
| professionals recommend we feed the baby both egg and peanut
| butter as early as possible specifically to prevent allergies
| as well, so I don't think this is controversial in the
| medical community at least.
| firstlink wrote:
| Essentially illegal in the US though, given school
| requirements.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| No, its not. For one thing, schooling (even preschool)
| starts well after the target age for this.
| [deleted]
| rtkwe wrote:
| Decidedly not. There's plenty of meals given to kids
| outside of school to perform this intervention, it doesn't
| need to be in every meal on top of what other people have
| said about the timing.
| bigbillheck wrote:
| How many kids do you think there are in schools who aren't
| eating solid foods yet?
| skrbjc wrote:
| Many many people put their kids into daycare at 3 months
| of age since that's all they get for maternity leave.
| myko wrote:
| In the US 25% of mothers are back at work within 2 weeks
| of childbirth
| (https://www.vox.com/2015/8/21/9188343/maternity-leave-
| united...). FMLA requires jobs to let mothers take time
| but does not require they be paid, and most folks are
| living paycheck to paycheck and need the money.
| gus_massa wrote:
| It's 25% of the _all_ mothers or 25% of the mothers that
| were working before the birth?
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| It's a Department of Labor study, so presumably done on
| people already in the labor force. Doesn't change how
| terrible the stat is, even assuming 50% of mothers aren't
| in the labor pool that'd still be 12% of mothers back in
| work in under two weeks.
| silversmith wrote:
| I knew this before, as a fact like any other.
|
| Now that I've recently become a parent, it's... it's
| shocking. The idea of handing someone that young and
| helpless off to strangers raises a strong "NO!" reaction,
| right from the gut instead of the brain.
|
| In my neck of the woods we get 1.5 years maternity leave,
| and experiencing it myself I'm honestly not sure even
| that is enough.
| heywhatupboys wrote:
| > I started giving my own child chewed up food I was eating at
| about 2.5 months
|
| You gave a TWO AND A HALF MONTH OLD CHILD chicken??? this is so
| incredibly careless that I HAVE to call out this crazy
| misinformation on HN. DO not ever replicate this please,
| everyone else.
| lm28469 wrote:
| > At one point, families were once told to avoid peanut until
| their child was three years old.
|
| > This advice was never based on science.
|
| I'm like 99% sure this was to avoid babies/young kids choking
| on peanut
| bialpio wrote:
| Even the article mentions this: "Experts warn whole or
| chopped nuts and peanuts are a choking risk and should not be
| given to children under five."
| salamanderman wrote:
| Maybe at first it was a sane reason like this. When we were
| having a kid, though, we were definitely told by reputable
| sources (like an obgyn) not to feed the kid peanuts in any
| form until 3 years old. We decided that the bureaucracy of
| what advice to give hadn't caught up to the science we'd
| read, and just tried small amounts of peanut butter when we
| moved to solids.
| dham wrote:
| An OBGYN isn't a scientist. Move to "solids" is such a
| weird thing to say. Once you're off breast milk / formula
| you just go to whatever. The pureed food has to be one of
| the biggest scams in human history and leads to required
| orthodontia.
| raverbashing wrote:
| Exactly
|
| How in tarnation did anyone think keeping babies away from the
| allergens would help with allergies is beyond me
|
| Which countries has the least amount of peanut allergies?
| Countries where people give it without much concern
|
| Thanks to these misguided though there are people severely
| allergic to peanuts
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > How in tarnation did anyone think keeping babies away from
| the allergens would help with allergies is beyond me
|
| No one, AFAIK, thought it would reduce the rates of people
| developing allergies.
|
| What people thought was that it would reduce the rates of
| people _having dangerous allergic reactions as infants_
| (which it does) and that the longer term effects would not be
| so negative as to outweigh that benefit (which seems, in the
| case of certain allergens - particularly peanuts - to very
| much _not_ be the case.)
| mrpopo wrote:
| Not saying that you're wrong, but your line of reasoning is
| incorrect. It could also have been because all the people
| with peanut allergies have died and the people surviving all
| have some sort of genetic advantage against peanut allergy.
|
| Again, the above reasoning is wrong but not completely
| baseless.
| raverbashing wrote:
| I see what you mean, I'm not so sure if there's a genetic
| connection to allergies (specific to allergies, not
| intolerances, which are a different thing) and/or how
| strong it is relating to different elements
| havblue wrote:
| This is a point of frustration between my wife and me and it
| repeats every 6 months or so. "Honey, let's feed the girls some
| shrimp so they don't get allergies." "No. Not yet. I don't want
| them to get mercury poisoning. It can wait."
| bradleyjg wrote:
| I was under the impression that shrimp was among the lowest
| mercury seafood, along with herring, anchovies, and a few
| others.
| stametseater wrote:
| The smaller the fish, the less mercury it has. The ones you
| have to watch out for are the big fish that eat lots of
| medium fish that in turn eat lots of smaller fish; each
| stage in the food chain concentrates more and more mercury.
| Sharks and tuna have a lot of mercury. And smaller tuna,
| like skipjack, have less mercury than larger tuna.
|
| Also I think the threat of mercury in fish is greatly
| overstated anyway. Look at Japan; they eat _tons_ of fish
| and they 're not all brain damaged dummies.
| Gordonjcp wrote:
| You'd have to be eating an unreasonable amount of seafood to
| get enough mercury in you to be a problem.
| ericd wrote:
| I thought mercury was mostly an issue with apex predators?
| havblue wrote:
| That was more of a paraphrased quote. Her concern is
| primarily in farm raised seafood I believe. It is an issue
| with apex predators though, since I'm married to one.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| >Train how you live as soon as possible.
|
| There are dangerous caveats to this advice! For example, don't
| feed infants fish or shellfish more than this allergy test.
| They contain one of the highest levels of mercury in the entire
| food web. Best to wait until the they've grown.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| Most seafood is actually very low in mercury, only a few
| species that are high in the food chain (e.g. shark) are high
| in mercury due to bio-magnification.
|
| Moreover, it has been observed that traditional fishing
| cultures that have a high mercury intake have zero symptoms
| of mercury toxicity. The leading hypothesis of this is that
| the high selenium content in these same fish is protective
| against mercury exposure[1]. Consider also the observation
| that cultures with high fish intake have good health
| outcomes, and that omega-3 supplementation fails to recover
| those benefits. This makes me feel that eating a lot of fish
| is likely much healthier than avoiding it, and avoiding it is
| probably leading to nutrition deficiency, including possibly
| selenium, which is a much bigger risk than the potential for
| mercury toxicity.
|
| [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01
| 618...
| eloff wrote:
| Unless you feed them huge quantities of seafood, I fail to
| see how this is an issue.
|
| From an allergy standpoint small exposure would be enough to
| reduce risk of developing an allergy.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| The new FDA risk-benefit analysis is currently ongoing and
| will be published later this year. Right now, it's no more
| than 2oz/week for certain fish.
|
| https://www.nationalacademies.org/our-work/the-role-of-
| seafo...
| CameronNemo wrote:
| Even small amounts of mmercury during early development can
| have significant effects.
| bell-cot wrote:
| Feeding infants and toddlers food which an adult has pre-chewed
| for them is an _old_ practice. Older than humankind, actually -
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premastication
| bryanlarsen wrote:
| > This advice was never based on science.
|
| No, it was based on common sense. If X causes problems, not
| doing X is generally a good idea.
|
| It turns out that in this particular scenario, common sense was
| wrong. But allergies weren't understood by science, so all we
| had to go on was common sense.
| stametseater wrote:
| Peanut allergies were exceptionally rare decades ago when
| nobody worried about peanut allergies in the first place. In
| the 20th century everybody in America sent their kids to
| school with peanut butter sandwiches and virtually everybody
| was fine. I didn't even know people _could_ be allergic to
| peanuts until I was an adult. Now schools ban peanut butter
| sandwiches and it seems like every other family claims their
| child is allergic to peanuts. Common sense says that we need
| to give kids more peanut butter sandwiches, like we used to,
| and it would stop being a problem.
|
| Also, we should stop testing for allergies unless there is a
| good reason to test a specific person for a specific allergy
| (e.g. they already had a bad reaction to something, and need
| to figure out what.) Those allergen tests have many false
| positives, people that could have gone their whole lives
| eating peanuts without thinking twice about it will instead
| spend their whole lives avoiding peanuts because a
| precautionary allergen test came back _sliightly_ positive
| and they "don't want to take the risk". More medical testing
| is not always a good thing.
| soperj wrote:
| > common sense was wrong
|
| I don't think that's been proven conclusively.
| atomicUpdate wrote:
| This is literally an article with proof that the previous
| guidance we was wrong and actively harmful to the children
| that were subjected to it.
| soperj wrote:
| This is literally an article that is pointing to a
| research paper that doesn't definitely conclude anything.
| shkkmo wrote:
| I'm not sure which article or paper you are reading?
|
| The paper the article references says:
|
| > A 77% reduction in peanut allergy was estimated when
| peanut was introduced to the diet of all infants, at 4
| months with eczema, and at 6 months without eczema. The
| estimated reduction in peanut allergy diminished with
| every month of delayed introduction. If introduction was
| delayed to 12 months, peanut allergy was only reduced by
| 33%.
|
| Edit: While I'm not sure what your standards are for
| "conclusive", the author's of the paper have drawn pretty
| strong conclusions and any doubts I see are around
| precisely how much the effectiveness of peanut
| introduction drops off with infant age, not about wether
| such a drop occurs.
| soperj wrote:
| Based on a population of jewish children in england vs. a
| population of jewish children in Israel, literally a
| repeat population from the first study 8 years ago.
|
| The paper in question also states: "Moreover, it should
| be noted that since the change in Australian guidelines
| in 2016, consumption of peanut during the first year of
| life increased from 28.4% before the guidelines (2007-11)
| to 88.6% after the implementation of the guidelines
| (2016-18). Despite this change, a recent publication has
| shown no decline in the observed prevalence of peanut
| allergy in Australia in 2020, which remained stable at
| 3.1%."
|
| It's been tried in a large population with literally zero
| effect.
| ssivark wrote:
| What's "common sense" is drastically different depending on
| whether you assume a complex system is static or adaptive.
| magicalist wrote:
| You can expose a six month old to honey as well but their
| complex and adaptive digestion system still isn't going to
| kill the botulism spores that might be in it.
|
| "I don't know how this bad thing works, better rub it on my
| gums" is not a good strategy in general.
| myshpa wrote:
| (removed)
| strifey wrote:
| Botulism spores do not "train immune systems". Babies
| don't have strong enough digestive systems until they're
| at least six months old to kill the spores.
|
| https://www.cdc.gov/botulism/infant-botulism.html.
| panzagl wrote:
| My daughter developed (non life-threatening) allergies to
| corn, eggs, and apples, all of which she had been exposed to
| plenty beforehand, so it's not necessarily that
| straightforward.
| gus_massa wrote:
| And that we should use the real scientific method instead of
| "common sense" disguised as science.
|
| I have three children, and they had three different
| pediatricians when they were babies. The three pediatricians
| had a different incompatible list of food the children must
| eat when they had between 6 and 12 month old. And if you go
| to the web, there is even more disinformation and snake oil.
|
| It was funny to compare the list of food of the pediatricians
| of my children with the list of foods of the pediatricians of
| the children of my friends. Also, sometime people get too
| attached to this recommendations and make a big mess if the
| children of a friend does not follow the rules of their own
| children.
|
| (I think the only food in the intersection was honey, because
| it's too difficult to pasteurize. It make sense, but I'm not
| sure how thoughtfully it was tested.)
| cacois wrote:
| No, this was done from fear. My generation were given peanut
| butter early, and it was tested in a small amount to see if
| there was a problem first. This was common sense for a long
| long time, and it seemed to work fine.
|
| A generation later parents were told to avoid it until age 3
| or 4 for no real reason, and it created a ton of peanut
| allergies in those kids. They were scared of their kid having
| a peanut allergy. This was fear, counter to the common sense
| they themselves were raised with.
| nobodyandproud wrote:
| No, it was based on what we now phrase as "an abundance of
| caution."
|
| One of these days I will draw a one panel image that
| demonstrates the fallacy of this thinking.
| bigbillheck wrote:
| > If you IDS has never seen X and X is unlike anything it has
| seen, it will probably flag it.
|
| It's a whole lost more complicated than this, see for example
| antigens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigen and epitopes
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epitope
| m463 wrote:
| On the other hand, I wonder if infants without a mature immune
| system might do better not being exposed to a lifetime of
| pathogens in found adult saliva.
|
| I think the normal way babies ramp their immune system is
| breastfeeding - their body struggles with soemthing, it is
| transferred to mom's nipple when breastfeeding, the mother
| forms an immune response, it is incorporated into the breast
| milk, the baby retrieves it next breast feeding.
|
| I mean too early. Not sure when too early is.
| dsego wrote:
| I am always worried about sharing my caries or gum disease
| bacteria, so I avoid sharing spoons and food. And then I've
| seen mothers pick up a pacifier from the ground and put it in
| their mouth to "clean" it before giving it back to the baby.
| pbhjpbhj wrote:
| Do you [personally] have specifically bad bacteria in your
| gums?
| dsego wrote:
| I do have some gum recession, and a lot of fillings. My
| wife has better dental health, even though she gives her
| teeth less attention than me in terms of hygiene. But
| I've also found articles online about spreading cavities.
| Here is an example.
|
| > Dental caries, commonly known as tooth decay, is the
| single most common chronic childhood disease. In fact, it
| is an infectious disease. Mothers with cavities can
| transmit caries-producing oral bacteria to their babies
| when they clean pacifiers by sticking them in their own
| mouths or by sharing spoons.
|
| https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/14022011240
| 2.h...
| cpuguy83 wrote:
| I think this advice was more about not giving the baby a known
| allergen because they are a baby and it could kill them and it
| could be difficult to even tell they are having a problem
| because babies are often crying for any number of reasons.
|
| I'm not saying the advice is sound, just giving a perspective
| on what led to that advice. It's not about "they might develop
| an allergy so don't give it to them" it's "they may be allergic
| already and cause significant harm".
| [deleted]
| unixgoddess wrote:
| however, there are other factors to keep in mind.
|
| you mention giving your chewed up food: I read a few years ago
| that babies who sleep in the same bed as the parents have a
| much higher mortality rate; assuming it's true, I guess that
| with mouth to mouth germ exchange it would be even worse.
|
| Also, a lot of food today is full of chemical residues etc that
| are tolerated by adults, not quite so by babies.
| NineStarPoint wrote:
| SIDS is very poorly understood, but highest probability seems
| to be that it's not germ related but related to breathing
| (more like complex sleep apnea for infants, where sometimes a
| baby has a messed up breath response. This tracks with SIDS
| seeming to have a strong genetic component). For what studies
| we do have, yes sleeping with the parent seems to have a
| marginal increase in SIDS, although less of one than things
| like having a loose blanket in a crib.
|
| Ultimately risk falls off around four months though, so yeah
| maybe 2.5 months is a bit early to try weird things.
| dsego wrote:
| Afaik, babies have weak neck muscles and can't lift their
| heads. I remember also reading that really small babies
| can't breathe through their mouth. So it seems easy to
| imagine a situation where the babies airway is blocked and
| it can't help itself.
| TheCapn wrote:
| Both things you say are correct. And as far as I've seen
| on most recent studies it is indeed related to some sort
| of deficiency in the signaling from the brain to "wake
| up" when oxygen is low, with suggestion that there's a
| genetic component to it (sorry no link to the study I
| saw).
|
| Basically the SIDS risk as understood currently is like
| you said: obstruction getting in the way, baby not
| waking...bad outcomes. Co-sleeping with the parents
| increase risk by bringing pillows, blankets, themselves
| into the bed to add obstacles or opportunities for the
| infant to suffocate.
|
| It's a highly nuanced topic. In my parent's day it was
| common for babies to be put to sleep on their stomach
| whereas now the advise is to back sleep even though
| there's increased risk for flat head, but lower risk for
| SIDS. Once the kid is able to turn themselves it becomes
| much more simple as they'll move around throughout the
| night so back/stomach becomes a non-issue once they reach
| that age.
| mertd wrote:
| Isn't the mortality because of SIDS? It has not much to do
| with germ transmission.
| bradleyjg wrote:
| SIDS and also suffocation, which is now separated out from
| SIDS.
|
| However, in recent years there has been a backlash to the
| backlash, and under certain conditions (no drugs/alcohol,
| exclusive breastfeeding, no blankets) some doctors will
| recommend co-sleeping. It's controversial.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > Isn't the mortality because of SIDS?
|
| SIDS isn't a cause, SIDS is a name for when no cause is
| known.
| Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote:
| Is also a concession to the parents whose kid probably
| just died of suffocation. Much like the historical trend
| of not reporting overdose deaths.
| rocketbop wrote:
| Why would exposure to more germs be bad? Seems like it would
| be positive.
|
| If you're talking about sudden infant death, I don't think
| it's related to germs, although it's a poorly understood
| phenomenon.
| [deleted]
| stametseater wrote:
| A parent rolls over in their sleep and suffocates their
| infant. A tragic accident. Writing up the cause of death as
| unintentional homicide, or even an accident, won't do anybody
| any favors; it would only cause emotional anguish to the
| parents. So instead the cause of death is "SIDS."
|
| I'm not saying this is what happens in every instance, but
| it's probably the way it happens at least some of the time.
| DebtDeflation wrote:
| >Cultures where infants are fed on the same broad spectrum of
| foods that adults eat have MUCH lower incidence of allergies.
|
| Most mammalian wild animals (and humans until 100 years or so
| ago) drink their mothers milk up until they're able to eat
| regular food and then from that point on eat whatever adults of
| their species eat. They don't go through 5 different levels of
| Gerber before eating real food.
| dap wrote:
| I still can't get over that the official guidelines for years
| were the opposite of this, and it seems to have led to a
| tremendous increase in severe peanut allergy. I get that public
| health organizations have to make recommendations in the face of
| uncertainty. But to get it so wrong, with severe consequences --
| was there a postmortem or investigation of how that happened? How
| are people to trust public health guidelines when that stuff
| happens without explanation?
| dboreham wrote:
| My understanding of this is that the original problem was
| children _choking_ on _whole_ peanuts. Hence the advice not to
| eat _peanuts_. This somehow got lost in translation and became
| "don't eat any peanut-based food".
|
| Disclosure: son has severe peanut allergy.
| dawnerd wrote:
| Guessing same with honey? I hear people freak out a lot about
| infants having anything with honey in it. I feel it might be
| more along the choking lines with raw honey too.
| Herodotus38 wrote:
| The problem with honey is that it can cause botulism.
| Infants under 1 are most susceptible.
| ramraj07 wrote:
| How long did you actively avoid peanut products for your son
| though?
| azinman2 wrote:
| If you zoom out, people used to use leaches for disease. Humans
| generally go through waves of health care trends. Generally
| speaking the progress gets better over time.
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| Leeches are still used in some medical situations, usually
| various types of tissue grafting.
| hguant wrote:
| Or in any situation where there's necrotic tissue! They're
| incredibly selective about only eating dead tissue.
| GrinningFool wrote:
| Those would be maggots. Leeches are the blood drinkers.
| Gordonjcp wrote:
| Leeches are awesome for haemochromatosis.
| slingnow wrote:
| What does one have to do with the other? We live in a time of
| significantly more advanced medicine and understanding of the
| human body. Just because we used to do something questionable
| in the past doesn't give a free pass for people to make
| boneheaded decisions in the present day.
|
| It still makes sense to ask why we got this so wrong. Not
| just "this technique doesn't work the way we thought it did".
| We're talking COMPLETELY backwards.
| magicalist wrote:
| It's absolutely not backwards. More children developed
| allergies (almost definitely because of the lack of
| exposure), but it wasn't known that would happen. What we
| did know is not exposing children to a trigger of
| anaphylaxis would prevent them from dying from anaphylaxis,
| so, similar to many dangers, the most logical course of
| action is to remove the risk altogether.
|
| Yes, it's well known doing that with anything can have
| unknown secondary effects, but there's also a million
| everyday things we logically don't let infants do or be
| exposed to that we aren't establishing the statistical
| significance of either.
|
| Incidentally, with all of our advanced medicine and
| understanding of the human body, we still don't understand
| why some people develop severe allergic reactions to some
| foods and others don't, so let's not pat ourselves too hard
| on the back for developing better food exposure protocols
| from trial and error over decades.
| dap wrote:
| > It's absolutely not backwards.
|
| But it is. The best population-level guidance (now) is
| early exposure. We told people to do the opposite. The
| result was a lot more kids with anaphylaxis-level
| allergy. (I don't know if this increased the total number
| of people who died. That'd be an interesting question,
| but given that we reversed the guidance, I assume from a
| public health perspective people now believe the original
| guidance was exactly the wrong thing to do.) The best you
| can say is this was the best we knew at the time, but
| it's exactly wrong.
|
| > What we did know is not exposing children to a trigger
| of anaphylaxis would prevent them from dying from
| anaphylaxis, so, similar to many dangers, the most
| logical course of action is to remove the risk
| altogether.
|
| I think you mean that it's intuitive, but I don't think
| it's logical, for exactly the reason that it turns out
| not to be a good idea. It's based on a wrong model of how
| the world works. Yes, that wasn't known. But I feel like
| we have to account for the fact that we might not know
| everything. (Admittedly, this drives me particularly nuts
| because I think this fallacy pervades so much public
| health advice, especially for kids.)
|
| Like I said above, I get that people need to make
| recommendations in the face of uncertainty. But I feel
| like when we find that we've recommended the exact
| opposite of what was good (i.e., exactly flipped the
| previous guidance) with such severe consequences, it
| seems appropriate to step back and look at our
| methodology to ask if something went wrong or if there's
| something we can do to improve it?
| magicalist wrote:
| > _I think you mean that it 's intuitive, but I don't
| think it's logical, for exactly the reason that it turns
| out not to be a good idea._
|
| If operating with the best model you have is intuitive
| and not logical, then everything in science it intuitive
| and not logical, so we might have to redefine your use of
| "logical" to be more useful.
|
| Peanut exposure caused anaphylaxis in some kids. Many
| kids in the world are never exposed to peanuts with no
| ill effects (in fact, a large portion of the globe went
| all of recorded history up until the Columbian exchange
| without exposure to peanuts). If we still want peanuts in
| anyone's diets, waiting until the child is older for
| controlled exposure is a logical response. Yes we didn't
| know how that would affect developing allergies, but as I
| mentioned in my comment, we _still_ don 't understand how
| allergies develop, so the only difference is we conducted
| a massive peanut exposure experiment with other countries
| operating as incidental controls.
|
| > _I don 't know if this increased the total number of
| people who died. That'd be an interesting question_
|
| In fact, this (plus quality of life + cost of
| prevention/treatment) is the only measure on which the
| old guidance could be "exactly wrong", which hopefully
| gives some insight on why talking about it being
| "backwards" is itself wrong. It's not Thalidomide.
| Exposure at 6 months isn't the opposite of exposure at
| age 3. And whatever harm metric you can define is going
| to be a result of a mixture of effects, including
| allergic kids that weren't exposed and kids that
| (probably) developed an allergy because of the lack of
| exposure. It's almost certainly on the cost side that
| it's come out negative, because treatment has improved
| and exposure prevention has become so widespread.
|
| > _It 's based on a wrong model of how the world works.
| Yes, that wasn't known. But I feel like we have to
| account for the fact that we might not know everything.
| (Admittedly, this drives me particularly nuts because I
| think this fallacy pervades so much public health advice,
| especially for kids.)_
|
| I mean, all models are wrong, some are useful. We'll
| never know everything and you have to work with the
| evidence you have. Delaying exposure to something that
| could kill 1% of kids is categorically different than
| some new study saying "we detected a small magnitude but
| statistically significant result on speech acquisition
| due to magnesium supplementation".
|
| If you instead mean we need to better communicate
| uncertainty in developmental and health recommendations,
| I completely agree. You can see it in this thread, for
| instance, assuming that early exposure prevents all
| peanut allergies. Even if you assume exposure is the only
| causal variable here (almost certainly wrong), we can
| observe a baseline level of peanut allergy incidence, so,
| no, early exposure is not a panacea, but that doesn't
| seem to have been communicated well.
| kspacewalk2 wrote:
| >Instead, eating peanut while the immune system is still
| developing - and learning to recognise friend from foe - can
| reduce allergic reactions, experts say.
|
| >Other studies have suggested introducing other foods linked to
| allergies - such as egg, milk and wheat - early also reduced
| allergy.
|
| I admit I haven't looked at studies, but this made such intuitive
| sense to us that we've been first giving both our sons very small
| samples, then feeding them absolutely every kind of food (that's
| safe, e.g. not raw honey, and non-junky, e.g. no soda pop) we
| eat, as early as possible. If for no other reason, then to find
| out if they do have an allergy. Anecdata [?] data, but both of
| them have zero allergies as far as we know, 6 and 2 years old
| now. Obviously, the nutritional needs of children and adults are
| different, so they consume different _amounts_ of each kind of
| food than we do.
| s1k3 wrote:
| We did the same. My wife was nervous but I'm like, it's common
| sense.
|
| We did hold off on honey until they were one due to the
| botulism risk tho.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| In certain cultures of India, it is tradition to give a baby
| a drop of honey as soon as they are born.
| samketchup wrote:
| Why not develop an mrna shot for peanut butter?
| gus_massa wrote:
| The objective of the mRNA shot for covid-19 is to make the
| person produce a antibodies that trap the covid-19 when it
| appears later. I think that for an allergy you want less
| antibodies, but an mRNA shot gives you more antibodies.
|
| Also, I'm not sure what part of the peanut butter is the more
| important for the allergy. If it is a protein, perhaps a mRNA
| shot can make it better/worse, because the mRNA shot make some
| of your cell produce a protein.
|
| If the allergenic substance in peanut butter is not a protein,
| I think it would be more difficult to make a mRNA shot that is
| good/bad.
| morpheuskafka wrote:
| It is definitely a protein and I don't see much use for mRNA
| here. Clearly, there's nothing about the produced protein
| that marks it as safe just because it was produced in the
| body's own cells, otherwise the vaccine wouldn't generate a
| response.
|
| So all this would do is introduce a lot of protein directly
| into serum. If someone was allergic, that would cause a
| reaction, and if not, it's not clear what it would do. It may
| not be a good idea for it to suddenly appear in the body
| without having been exposed through the GI tract.
| gus_massa wrote:
| What about a vector virus that target the thymus?
|
| [Disclaimer: In case it's not obvious, I'm not a medical
| doctor. https://xkcd.com/938/ ]
| varenc wrote:
| I think you have this backwards. mRNA vaccines get your body to
| produce a strong immune response in reaction to the whatever
| protein the mRNA got your body to produce. Peanut allergies are
| caused by your body already having an incorrect and very strong
| immune reaction to something inert.
| LinuxBender wrote:
| This might work but I would also like scientists to start looking
| for root causes, such as peanut _and all legume_ crops
| alternating with cotton crops and what concentration of cotton
| pesticides in the soil get absorbed by the peanuts and what those
| chemicals get converted into and what impact they have throughout
| the embryonic development stages.
| [deleted]
| alienthrowaway wrote:
| People never believe me when I tell them I _used_ to be lactose
| intolerant until I was 5 or 6. My favourite dish as a child was
| milk-based and I 'd get all the symptoms, which gradually all
| went away completely.
| davchana wrote:
| In Punjab too we have a yearly festival on January 13th, Lohri,
| where everybody eats peanut, jaggery, & nut seeds. I have not
| heard any peanut allergies there.
| kqr wrote:
| The annoying thing is When one of the parents is very allergic to
| peanuts, so you have to give it to the child elsewhere, and no
| friends or relatives want that responsibility. You get very
| little support from elsewhere.
|
| (My wife is allergic to sesame. We have tried to get people to
| have hummus parties with our children but to this day they have
| not eaten any sesame as far as we are aware.)
| AlanSE wrote:
| I'm in the same boat, and it's true, even doctors don't get it.
| Gone through several pediatricians and got a blank stare back,
| mouth-agape.
|
| Children are getting older, and thankfully, are no afflicted
| with the same allergy as their mother. But as time wears on, it
| is truly emotionally draining. The nuts held in a hermetically
| sealed container are compared to a caged viper - as they can
| easily cause life-threatening anaphylaxis for exactly 1 person
| in the household. We have to follow a super-clean process
| outside-and-inside to give an introduction, but you know what,
| kids don't always want to do what they're told. It sucks, and
| it's a problem more and more people will have in the future.
| jjulius wrote:
| Genuinely curious, not trying to criticize, am parent of
| littles myself.
|
| You mentioned your wife is allergic but you're not, and talked
| about the difficulty you've had finding friends/family to
| expose them to it. I don't see mention of you being the one to
| expose them to it in a setting a safe distance away from your
| wife, and I guess I'm just curious! Hummus as a snack when
| you're at a park, or something?
|
| Like I said, genuinely not trying to criticize, just another
| parent who's curious. I've been lucky to not have any allergy
| issues with my kiddos, so I guess I'm ignorant and just
| wondering what it's like and how complicated it could be.
| numbers_guy wrote:
| Where does peanut allergy come from anyway? The first time I
| heard about it was on American TV sitcoms. Two decades later we
| have EPIPENs in our schools too, but in my childhood food
| allergies were never discussed at all. Not a single mention at
| all.
| sam36 wrote:
| [flagged]
| SeanLuke wrote:
| This is an extraordinary claim and requires extraordinary
| evidence.
| [deleted]
| sam36 wrote:
| Uh, ok.
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9345669/
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8667923/
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10714532/
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15462710/
| anhner wrote:
| There's gonna be no extraordinary evidence FOR that claim,
| only AGAINST it, since billions of people have been
| vaccinated all around the world yet allergies have only
| gone up in a few countries.
| anhner wrote:
| If we're going down the route of speculative correlation, we
| might as well say it's the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere,
| since that also steadily increased in the last years...
| strictnein wrote:
| I'm not saying it isn't more prevalent now, but there were
| definitely kids in my elementary school (~500 kids) in the
| 1980s who couldn't have peanut butter. I always felt so bad for
| them too, because I more or less survived on the stuff.
| justinator wrote:
| I remember in elementary school in the 80's, we were merely
| _talking_ about peanuts for some class unit, and the girl
| known to have an allergy to peanuts threw up in front of
| everyone. Poor girl.
| hammock wrote:
| There is a mostly ignored body of research linking at least
| some food allergies to food proteins in vaccines. Here is one
| such study
| https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3571073
| anhner wrote:
| There's probably a good reason why it's ingored...
| hammock wrote:
| The science is definitely mixed[1]. The proposed mechanism
| of action is logically sound, though, and probably worth
| exploring more than it is
|
| [1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5845772/
| anhner wrote:
| It's possible the mechanism is plausible, but then how do
| we explain the fact that in most developed countries
| vaccination rates have gone up, yet allergy rates have
| gone up only in a few? Surely there must be some other
| factor causing it.
| hammock wrote:
| How do we explain the fact that countries with the
| highest growth of ice cream sales, have the highest
| growth of sunburn cases as well?
|
| Hard to take a huge macro view of only two factors as you
| are doing and draw any meaningful conclusion. Hence the
| need for deeper study
| weberer wrote:
| Probably not all countries use peanut oil as an adjuvant.
| petodo wrote:
| Yeah same here (Europe), never heard about anyone having
| (pea)nut allergy, but now my own kids have it (for the record
| wife also doesn't have it), and not just peanuts, other nuts as
| well (cashew, pistachio, walnuts). But from what I've seen in
| Prague kindergarten lists of allergic kids, it's still quite
| rare, like 1-2 kids max out of 20-24 kids class. Seems gluten
| allergy is more common than (pea)nuts.
| jonhohle wrote:
| In my late 30s I developed a legume allergy (including
| peanuts). Not knowing much about child peanut allergies (we
| gave all of our kids peanut butter from an early age), I've had
| to adjust my own life to avoiding peanuts, soy, and so many
| delicious beans.
|
| My symptoms are just gastro related, so it's probably not the
| same as childhood peanut allergies, though.
| [deleted]
| bialpio wrote:
| > My symptoms are just gastro related, so it's probably not
| the same as childhood peanut allergies, though.
|
| Maybe it's food intolerance, which is distinct from food
| allergy? Those I'm sure can develop later in life.
| johnyzee wrote:
| Peanuts contain a unique kind of lectin, which, unlike almost
| all other plant lectins, does not break down with preparation
| (heat, mechanical, etc.). Lectins irritate the gut lining and
| therefore cause gastro issues for a lot of people, peanuts
| probably moreso than other foods.
| hammock wrote:
| Do you get a flu shot every year?
| jonhohle wrote:
| I used to, but haven't been regular about it for several
| years. Is there a link between it and adult onset
| allergies?
| hammock wrote:
| It has been proposed for at least egg allergy, since the
| flu shot contains egg protein and there is a plausible
| MoA. Some of the shots also use adjuvant 65, which
| contains peanut oil and it's possible the same MoA
| applies. Your own personal risk-reward calculation
| applies of course
| Xeoncross wrote:
| There are interesting studies being done about the effect of
| cesarean (non-vaginal) birth is having on babies not picking up a
| lot of the bacteria from the mother.
|
| I know soap marketing has convinced us all that bacteria is evil,
| but apparently some bacteria is essential for humans (and
| animals, insects, etc..) being able to process certain foods.
|
| Some bacteria is bad, some is bad in high quantities, and some is
| essential to digestion and/or virus control. If this is true, I
| would expect countries with higher cesarean birth rates to also
| have more allergies (though that wouldn't have to be the only
| reason).
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