[HN Gopher] Google says hackers could silently own your phone un...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Google says hackers could silently own your phone until Samsung
       fixes its modems
        
       Author : dutchbrit
       Score  : 149 points
       Date   : 2023-03-17 12:27 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
        
       | jeffbee wrote:
       | As an industry, if we can consider software broadly as one
       | industry, it is disappointing that we simply do not have a
       | quality and correctness and safety culture. It has been true for
       | decades and still appears to be true that the more hidden a
       | program is from the user, the more slapdash its implementation
       | will be. Device firmware is universally garbage. It's just like
       | that TPM 2.0 reference implementation thing that was on HN
       | earlier this week. It's just written by clowns in clown language
       | and when they find the flaws instead of fixing the process that
       | led to the flaws they just put in one more line of ClownLang to
       | hack around it. Something from outside the industry needs to come
       | in with some reform mandates.
        
         | _trampeltier wrote:
         | Just pure and real pain will bring changes. So the only way is
         | more ransomeware.
        
         | baal80spam wrote:
         | Well...
         | 
         | Microsoft ditched its QA unit a while ago.
         | 
         | My employer posts multiple (10+) marketing and sales job
         | openings currently on Linkedin but there is no money for an
         | additional "QA resource".
         | 
         | The list goes on, and this is one of the effects.
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | Yes. Over-reliance on automated tests and telemetry (aka
           | testing on the users) is a problem in the industry and
           | Microsoft is big into these.
           | 
           | Unit tests are great but mainly look for things you expect
           | and focus on the low having fruit. Not complex interactions
           | between components.
           | 
           | Their QA teams used to test on all kinds of hardware but most
           | of it was replaced by automated VM stuff.
        
             | jeffbee wrote:
             | The firmware industry has a variety of problems and "over-
             | reliance on automated tests" is decidedly not among them.
        
       | neuromason1 wrote:
       | Samsung always has a grand vulnerability each year. Like
       | clockwork!
       | 
       | In 2015, a vulnerability in Samsung's SwiftKey keyboard was
       | discovered that allowed attackers to remotely execute code on the
       | device.
       | 
       | In 2016, researchers discovered a flaw in Samsung's Knox security
       | software that could allow an attacker to escalate privileges and
       | gain root access to the device.
       | 
       | In 2017, a vulnerability was discovered that allowed attackers to
       | take control of Samsung's SmartCam cameras.
       | 
       | In 2018, researchers found a flaw in Samsung's Secure Boot
       | feature that allowed attackers to install malicious firmware on
       | the device.
       | 
       | In 2019, researchers discovered a vulnerability in Samsung's
       | Galaxy S10 fingerprint scanner that allowed anyone to unlock the
       | phone with a 3D printed fingerprint.
        
         | webdoodle wrote:
         | It's almost like it's planned obsolescence...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | fencepost wrote:
         | I believe the Samsung keyboard was linked with Swype, and I
         | believe it predated SwiftKey (or at least predated swipe-based
         | input in SwiftKey).
        
         | narrator wrote:
         | The 3d-printed fingerprint one is not scary since it requires
         | physical access, a 3-d printer and your fingerprint.
        
         | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
         | Sure, but which consumer products don't have security
         | vulnerabilities discovered? That's like pointing at water and
         | blaming it it's wet.
         | 
         | Vulns are part and parcel of products running any kind of SW.
         | As long as the manufacturer acknowledges it and pushes a prompt
         | fix we should be good.
        
           | imchillyb wrote:
           | No.
           | 
           | Critical system vulnerabilities are few and far between for
           | most companies.
           | 
           | Samsung has much greater than average occurrences of critical
           | root level vulnerabilities.
        
             | Spark_Ed wrote:
             | I've stopped buying anything Samsung because their quality
             | control has become non-existant.
             | 
             | My S22 ultra has a major bug that causes the screen to no
             | longer update until I screenshot my way to the restart
             | button. (Their response is trade in for an S23, but at my
             | expense).
             | 
             | I've never had a TV fail before, much less within two
             | years. When I first put it together, it seemed like it was
             | designed to fail. When they do, repair means either be
             | charged $300 for a $10 fiber optic cable or $400 for a new
             | output box.
             | 
             | Any appliance repair person worth their salt would tell you
             | to never buy Samsung appliances. They're the most prone to
             | failure, most expensive to repair. They try to appeal to
             | consumers by appearing like a luxury brand, while having
             | bottom of the barrel engineering inside.
             | 
             | I am avoiding anything Samsung until their track record
             | turns around completely.
        
               | lwhi wrote:
               | I've had absolutely no problem with my Samsung since the
               | S8 ( followed by S10 plus, S22 plus)
        
             | lwhi wrote:
             | Yeah right .. I still remember when you could gain access
             | to a MBPs root account using a blank password.
        
             | zamalek wrote:
             | Even if it was common, _90 days_ without so much as a
             | squeak? That is certainly incompetent _cough_ uncommon.
        
             | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
             | _> Samsung has much greater than average occurrences of
             | critical root level vulnerabilities._
             | 
             | I get it you dislike Samsung but citation needed for such
             | claims other than "trust me bro".
             | 
             | Also, since Samsung is possibly the world's biggest, or at
             | least one of the biggest makers and sellers of electronics,
             | serving a wide variety of markets and price points, it's
             | inevitable that their name pops up more often than other
             | brands.
             | 
             | The target on your back from hackers and security
             | researchers is proportional to your size as a company.
             | Everyone would like to gloat they hacked a Samsung device.
             | Nobody cares you hacked a TCL device.
             | 
             | So a better metric would be severe vulnerabilities per
             | number of devices sold .
        
               | palata wrote:
               | IMO the metric should also consider how long it took them
               | to patch it. Everyone has zero days, that's life. But
               | there is no excuse for not patching a critical
               | vulnerability.
        
             | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
             | Possibly, but Samsung is the 2nd most popular phone
             | manufacturer on the planet. It stands to reason that with
             | the level of visibility they'd have a lot of eyes on them
             | to find these things. That list provided at the top is also
             | a bunch of different devices and entirely different types
             | of electronics, which again is an argument that the bigger
             | the market the more likely that something will be found.
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | The reason that most software does not have known
             | vulnerabilities is not because it is secure, but because
             | nobody has looked.
        
           | bell-cot wrote:
           | Sadly, it sounds like Samsung has little interest in "fix",
           | and no interest whatever in "prompt".
        
             | prox wrote:
             | But why are they so reluctant? What's the issue here? They
             | aren't a poor backwater company afaik.
        
               | lockhouse wrote:
               | They want you to buy the Samsung Galaxy S24 when it comes
               | out.
        
         | lallysingh wrote:
         | Apparently that clock stopped for a few years.
        
           | RealStickman_ wrote:
           | They took a Corona break
        
             | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
             | Which would be ironic as the pandemic WFH years saw a huge
             | spike in cybercrime and security related incidents on all
             | fronts.
        
               | thinkingemote wrote:
               | Why is this? Id be interested to read the reasons why.
               | 
               | At the top of my head it's WFM opening up attack surfaces
               | but it could be that hackers with more free time hacked
               | more. Sociological reasons are more interesting for me.
        
               | wongarsu wrote:
               | Multiple industries laid off large parts of their
               | workforce. US unemployment trippled, and more tourist
               | heavy countries fared even worse. One of the biggest
               | drivers of crime is "it was the best option available at
               | the time", and most cybercrime isn't highly skilled and
               | fairly accessible.
               | 
               | To make matters worse, "regular" crime struggled at the
               | same time. It's harder to break into people's homes if
               | they are at home all day, and you can't mug them in a
               | dark alley either, neither can you pickpocket tourists.
        
               | shzhdbi09gv8ioi wrote:
               | Because more users online for more hours, more stuff
               | happened online due to lockdown etc etc etc.
        
               | giancarlostoro wrote:
               | My guess is with lockdowns you had a lot of people bored
               | at home stuck with nothing but digital screens for
               | entertainment. People with remote jobs or no jobs could
               | be scanning sites for exploits in the background whilst
               | doing other things since they have literally nothing
               | better to do to keep them occupied, not like they can go
               | outside very often.
               | 
               | This is a guess though, but now think of the millions
               | upon millions of people bored at home who might think "I
               | wonder if..."
        
               | cronix wrote:
               | In some forums I lurk in there was some hubub about
               | massive holes in security that were opened up via people
               | who are used to working in an environment with IT support
               | (somewhat secure, depending), etc, to people trying to
               | figure everything out at home on their own and using new
               | tools (both software and hardware) to do it. Don't know
               | how accurate it is but it makes some logical sense to me.
        
         | yaomtc wrote:
         | Huh? SwiftKey was never owned by Samsung. I don't think they
         | even had Samsung-specific builds
        
           | mburns wrote:
           | context: https://techcrunch.com/2015/06/17/no-its-samsung-
           | not-swiftke...
        
             | asciii wrote:
             | > Although Samsung told NowSecure in March that it had sent
             | wireless carriers a fix which could be transmitted to the
             | phones, and not to go public on it for three months,
             | Samsung did nothing about it.
             | 
             | As if written today, even though it's 8 years ago lol!
        
       | DeathArrow wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | ecmascript wrote:
       | How do I know if my model has this chipset? I have the S22 Ultra
       | but I cannot find what chipset it's using from the settings.
       | 
       | Ordered it from their website and I am located in Sweden.
        
         | vanilla_nut wrote:
         | Exynos chipsets contain the Samsung-designed modems with
         | problems. Qualcomm's Snapdragon chipsets use integrated
         | Qualcomm-designed modems (usually) that should be safe (from
         | this vulnerability).
         | 
         | If you still have the box or possibly a receipt, Exynos S22Us
         | have the model number SM-S908B or SM-S908B/DS. Every other
         | model is Snapdragon.
         | 
         | If you just have the phone itself, try the Geekbench or CPU-Z
         | apps. They're benchmarking apps for the most part, but they
         | also contain pretty detailed hardware reports.
        
           | fathyb wrote:
           | It has been a while since I used Android, but I believe you
           | can view the model number in the About section in the
           | Settings app?
        
         | Idiot_in_Vain wrote:
         | You do have this chipset.
         | 
         | To confirm you can install AIDA64 from the Play Store.
        
         | rofo1 wrote:
         | CPU-Z, the Android app, can tell you this (along with a bunch
         | of other information that you might find useful)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | izacus wrote:
       | This is a duplicate of
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35190811 with a clickbait
       | title.
        
       | jeroenhd wrote:
       | Previously discussed here:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35190811
        
       | micromacrofoot wrote:
       | Samsung is remarkably good at making Android worse.
        
       | gaudat wrote:
       | Does that mean we can get free (as in freedom) rooting that does
       | not trigger Knox? I will take that any day.
        
       | pxoe wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | myself248 wrote:
       | How many carriers require VoLTE for voice now? I keep getting
       | nastygrams from my carrier telling me to upgrade my old non-
       | VoLTE-capable phone or I'll lose voice 'any day now', with a
       | drop-dead date that's moved several times.
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | Are you outside of the US?
         | 
         | T-Mobile, ATT, and Verizon have all shut down 3G networks as of
         | 2022.
        
           | sangnoir wrote:
           | LTE is 4G, as is VoLTE. US carriers haven't shutdown 4G
           | networks AFAIK.
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | I understand, the person above says they have a non-VoLTE
             | phone, which will make voice calls on 2G or 3G.
        
       | dhosek wrote:
       | This kind of feels like I stopped building my own computers and
       | moved to the Apple ecosystem with prebuilt systems. It was always
       | easy for everyone to point their fingers somewhere else when
       | something didn't work. It's a problem with the hardware, no the
       | OS, no the software, no those two peripherals conflict...
       | 
       | There are still issues that crop up from time to time now that
       | I'm on a Mac, but there's also _one_ place to turn to when
       | there's a problem and they generally do a pretty good job of
       | resolving things (although the last big issue I had--which
       | ultimately ended with my laptop going through a Ship of Theseus
       | complete replacement took a while but that was also in November-
       | December of 2020 when everything was pretty messed up  & the
       | service person was able to give me my choice of anything from the
       | Apple store under $200 as compensation).
        
         | londons_explore wrote:
         | And all that was available under $200 was a branded mousemat...
        
         | jacooper wrote:
         | They will fix this, its already fixed in the pixel 7 pro, and
         | it should be fixed on any gpone with march 2023 patch level.
        
         | hot_gril wrote:
         | This is how I feel at work too. Someone's system is
         | misbehaving, and I report a bug. They say it's some
         | dependency's issue and direct me to ask someone there. No,
         | that's your responsibility, not mine. I don't know the
         | intricacies of _your_ s2s interaction.
        
       | gchokov wrote:
       | Why are people still buying these phones? - They fake your
       | pictures - i.e. replacing the real moon with a fake one; - Full
       | of vulnerabilities in the wild.. all the time; - Shady
       | connections with Asia
       | 
       | the list goes on and on.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | hummus_bae wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | lwhi wrote:
         | I have zero problems with my phone.
        
         | lyu07282 wrote:
         | > Shady connections with Asia
         | 
         | Wtf??
        
           | Smar wrote:
           | Well, Samsung _is_ korean.
        
             | sangnoir wrote:
             | The _humanity!_
        
         | aydyn wrote:
         | There are phones that fake the moon, but saying Samsung does
         | that is a lie.
        
           | theshrike79 wrote:
           | It just fakes it with AI :D
        
             | sangnoir wrote:
             | Is there a top-tier phone model on the market that doesn't
             | enhance photos in some way using AI? Not too long ago,
             | there was an HN discussion on AI artifacts on iPhone photos
             | thet are readily apparent when viewed from a large/hi-res
             | display, despite looking "better" than non-enhanced
             | pictures on the phone display.
        
         | another_story wrote:
         | I'd wager all your electronics contain a majority if parts from
         | Asia.
        
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       (page generated 2023-03-17 23:02 UTC)