[HN Gopher] Former Meta staffer reveals she had to 'fight for work'
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Former Meta staffer reveals she had to 'fight for work'
        
       Author : sgerenser
       Score  : 92 points
       Date   : 2023-03-16 20:01 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (fortune.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (fortune.com)
        
       | gardenhedge wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | Apocryphon wrote:
       | The concept of FAANG hoarding workers to deprive competitors of
       | talent is an idea that has been bandied about on HN for quite
       | some time. Finally, some solid substantiation of this practice.
        
         | 4674yryfhf wrote:
         | It doesn't really sound like she was hired to hoard talent
         | though. From the article it sounds like she was hired as a
         | diversity token. She probably wasn't put on anything
         | significant because if you put a token on something valuable
         | and they're lackluster you can't fire them without losing your
         | token which means you're stuck with them dragging the project
         | down. Nothing-work was a safe middle ground that solved the
         | dillema.
        
         | amadeuspagel wrote:
         | I don't think so. She describes her experience of not getting
         | any work, but she merely speculates that she was hired so other
         | companies couldn't have here. This isn't any more solid that
         | any speculation on this subject on HN.
        
         | spaced-out wrote:
         | You really think Meta hired this recruiter as part of some plan
         | to keep smaller companies from being able to hire recruiters?
        
           | Apocryphon wrote:
           | She mentions other employees experiencing the same. Perhaps
           | this is the first whistleblower who will pave the way for
           | more corroborating with their own respective stories.
        
             | bradlys wrote:
             | She also sounds a bit like a clout goblin from just what
             | I've seen. Clout goblins are infamously known for - you'll
             | be surprised to hear this - making shit up.
        
         | subsubzero wrote:
         | +1, I am really glad to see actual proof of this anti-
         | competitive practice. The sole purpose of which is to "starve"
         | out smaller competitors and startups of talent so there is less
         | competition for meta and other larger incumbents. My guess is
         | here is wall street forced Zuck's hand to offload this excess
         | headcount by driving the stock down, but given FB's share
         | structure(Zuckerberg has almost complete control over the
         | company due to his share structure ownership) he could have
         | kept along his pre-2022 path without much consequence except a
         | battered share price.
        
           | dfadsadsf wrote:
           | Yes. Meta is on a mission to starve startups and smaller
           | competitors from people who do DEI work. What would
           | competitor do without diverse talent in recruiting?
           | 
           | >Levy previously told Insider she was hired on Meta's Sourcer
           | Development Program, a 12-month program that helps workers
           | from underrepresented groups enter the corporate technology
           | recruiting industry.
        
           | andrewmutz wrote:
           | I am skeptical this proved that Meta hires to starve other
           | companies of talent. This all that the person said:
           | 
           | > it kind of seemed that Meta was hiring people so that other
           | companies couldn't have us and they were just hoarding us
           | like Pokemon cards
           | 
           | Sounds like it was just speculation
        
         | dilyevsky wrote:
         | I don't think it's necessarily a master plan it's just an
         | emergent property of these highly successful monopolistic
         | megacorps
        
         | umeshunni wrote:
         | This person was a DEI hire:
         | 
         | > Levy previously told Insider she was hired on Meta's Sourcer
         | Development Program, a 12-month program that helps workers from
         | underrepresented groups enter the corporate technology
         | recruiting industry.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | deanCommie wrote:
       | > "Everyone else that I worked with got to work on stuff but I
       | didn't. So I am one of those employees that was hired into a
       | really strange position where they immediately put me into a
       | group of individuals that was not working.
       | 
       | > "I mean, like, we were just sitting there. We had to basically
       | fight to find work. It was a very strange environment and it kind
       | of seemed that Meta was hiring people so that other companies
       | couldn't have us and they were just hoarding us like Pokemon
       | cards."
       | 
       | People claim they want autonomy, they accept a position at a
       | company that famously has a bottoms-up hacker ethos.
       | 
       | Then they complain that they weren't immediately "assigned" work
       | on Day 1.
       | 
       | WTF.
        
         | bumby wrote:
         | I think this depends on the seniority of the hire. A junior
         | employee needs more mentoring and "assigning" under they get
         | enough contextual understanding to know what's important and
         | what isn't. Someone brand-new to an organization isn't likely
         | to understand what problems their time is best spent on
         | solving.
        
       | politician wrote:
       | Is there any justifiable explanation for this hiring strategy?
       | "Keep us from working for others" seems like flawed reasoning. If
       | they went to work for others, then wage pressure should drop, but
       | by hoarding developers on fake projects wage pressure increases.
       | A strategy that raises median wages doesn't seem like it would
       | come from a FAANG.
        
         | Clubber wrote:
         | _Before the NCAA started limiting scholarships in 1973, teams
         | could stock up on workhorses -- Bear Bryant 's Alabama teams
         | would bring in blue-chippers by the shipload, not so his Tide
         | could use them, so other schools couldn't._
         | 
         | It's been done before. If Google hired the guys who made
         | ChatGPT and put them on production support or anything, they
         | wouldn't be scared for their existence right now. In tech, it
         | only takes a handful of people to put you out of business in a
         | few years, and you'd never see it coming. The corpses of once
         | great tech companies are many: MySpace, Yahoo, Sun, etc.
         | 
         | I would argue the tech giants aren't so much afraid of each
         | other, but upstarts out of nowhere that makes their business
         | obsolete.
        
         | HDThoreaun wrote:
         | She was a recruiter that started right when meta instituted a
         | hiring freeze. Then they were too slow to lay recruiting people
         | off.
        
         | tourgen wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | bunnyswipe_com wrote:
         | They can borrow hundreds of billions, they don't care.
        
         | _dain_ wrote:
         | >Is there any justifiable explanation for this hiring strategy?
         | 
         | yes. but you can only obliquely hint at it.
        
         | oh_sigh wrote:
         | It doesn't make much sense. A more likely explanation is just
         | that Facebook wants self directed people, and doesn't have much
         | of a system in place for people who need to be hand held.
        
       | marmee wrote:
       | I always thought that when revenues are too high these companies
       | need to raise expenses so they could have places to trim for
       | rough quarters up ahead. Therefore the hiring strategy in 2020
       | was sound.
       | 
       | I've also seen the reverse, Netflix not curbing on shared
       | accounts and Microsoft having really limited anti piracy tooling
       | early on, allowing them to keep revenue reserves for the future
        
         | lockhouse wrote:
         | Microsoft still doesn't really care that much about piracy for
         | some products. You can run Windows 11 Pro with 99% of the
         | features in tact without activating it.
        
           | bobsmooth wrote:
           | I just installed Windows 10 on a laptop using the official
           | USB creation tool. You just gotta leave it disconnected from
           | the internet and you can make a local account with no
           | restrictions.
        
           | HDThoreaun wrote:
           | Yea microsoft mostly cares about the enterprise market now.
           | They prefer people pirating windows over using other
           | operating systems because it ensures their enterprise
           | productivity software monopoly.
        
           | marmee wrote:
           | Haven't used windows 11, but there were times when 999999999
           | was a valid cdkey and there were times when you had to
           | activate the OS with Microsoft servers
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Microsoft is WAY more concerned with companies selling PCs
             | with illegitimate copies of windows than it is with people
             | having illegitimate copies.
             | 
             | So as long as Windows 11 shows "HACKED BY GONZO, TOTALLY
             | NOT LEGIT" they're fine with it.
        
         | themitigating wrote:
         | I thought the lack of anti piracy for Windows and Abode
         | products was a way of getting people into the ecosystem which
         | helps later. Not sure if this was ever confirmed
        
           | hangonhn wrote:
           | Yeah at one of my old jobs in IT, Microsoft would perform
           | software license audits just after a new release of Office.
           | They would find that we were in deficit and then force us to
           | buy licenses but the only licenses we could buy were the new
           | versions of Office. Of course then we would have to upgrade
           | all the other ones that had the licenses. This happens every
           | few years. Obviously it was our fault for not doing better
           | license allocation but I feel like Microsoft knew this is
           | common and took advantage of it.
        
           | WalterBright wrote:
           | Back in the Zortech days, we didn't install any copy
           | protection mechanism for just this reason. (Also, copy
           | protection annoys people, and annoying our customers was not
           | something we wished to do.)
           | 
           | That also meant we had no idea how many copies were pirated.
        
         | granshaw wrote:
         | I've had a similar overall thought - as a CEO/CFO seems that
         | you'd want a relatively in-line growth/margin/whatever target
         | each quarter, and so if you get a windfall you'd be
         | incentivized to somehow spread that out or create slack for
         | yourself in future quarters instead of milking it for all it's
         | worth.
         | 
         | Very weird, but that's what the current public capital markets
         | incentivize...
        
       | neonate wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/maka7
        
       | lnsru wrote:
       | There always 2 sides of a story. This just does not sound
       | trustworthy.
       | 
       | I had also a job where I was reading Wikipedia all day.
       | Management forgot to buy me a software license and I had nothing
       | to do. I silently quit.
        
         | bumby wrote:
         | I'm curious how this works. Did you continually remind
         | management that you didn't have the tools to do your job and
         | they ignored you or were you quietly satisfied that this gave
         | you a plausible excuse to do nothing?
        
       | saurik wrote:
       | I have been in what feels like a ridiculous number of arguments
       | over the years with people who will defend to the hilt the idea
       | that these companies all need as many workers as they do,
       | insisting that the very idea that they might have a ton of people
       | hired doing effectively nothing is some combination of insulating
       | and naive. Of course, the fact that some of us actually know such
       | people--my favorite example: I had an indirect friend who loved
       | to tell the story of how, after his third project at Google got
       | killed before launch, he just stopped working and realized there
       | were little, if any, actual consequences for doing nothing ;P--
       | never seemed to hold any weight.
       | 
       | I'm really hoping that, if nothing else comes out of 202[23], it
       | is a realization that the size and scope of these teams was, in
       | fact, _madness_ , and no one will ever be able to credibly claim
       | that they need thousands and thousands of people to maintain a
       | single app _ever again_ (but, sadly, I know that this isn 't the
       | case, as about three months from now no one will remember any of
       | this happened and none of this has ever come to light and if you
       | try to casually mention it as if it were common knowledge you'll
       | get flooded with "citation needed" as we live in the land of
       | Eternal September where somehow no one ever thinks it is useful
       | to study even recent history).
        
         | jjulius wrote:
         | > ... no one will ever be able to credibly claim that they need
         | thousands and thousands of people to maintain a single app ever
         | again...
         | 
         | Nor do we need to spend a ridiculous amount of money on a
         | gigantic new building[1], on the roof of which we will put a
         | 12.6-acre park and live animals, including foxes, so all of
         | those thousands and thousands of people can maintain that
         | _single app_ (well, in reality, apps), ever again.
         | 
         | I will forever be blown away by the excess I witnessed every
         | time I visited that campus, and I'm sure it's similar
         | elsewhere.
         | 
         | [1]https://www.builtinsf.com/2020/02/25/facebook-
         | headquarters-m...
        
           | dymk wrote:
           | The smoked BBQ lunch spot made it all worth it, though
        
         | swatcoder wrote:
         | The FAANG team sizes and TC packages were never about fueling
         | the production engine. They were about:
         | 
         | 1. stockpiling fuel for when you may need it
         | 
         | 2. starving your competitors of fuel
         | 
         | With money cheap and valuations absurd, idle or overpriced
         | talent was a much lesser problem than somebody else hoovering
         | up all the good stuff.
         | 
         | So you recruit aggressively using mechanical filters like
         | leetcode/whiteboard tests, then let internal processes figure
         | out who's actually worth using on meaningful projects. The rest
         | you can sit on, just in case.
        
           | spywaregorilla wrote:
           | I hear this a lot but I think it's bullshit. Neither of those
           | are goals that anyone would realistically pursue. It was
           | almost certainly middle managers wanting to demonstrate
           | impact by leading a larger team.
        
             | twelve40 wrote:
             | how could middle managers double the headcount by
             | themselves? nobody above them noticed that?
        
               | christophilus wrote:
               | Probably exactly this. Each tier of management hired a
               | fair bit more than they should have. Managers are
               | generally incentivized to do so. The behavior was
               | normalized and no one really noticed while money was
               | cheap and all seemed well with the world.
        
         | greenthrow wrote:
         | "A friend if a friend said he didn't do anything at Google"
         | plus one lady on Tiktok are not evidence of the widespread
         | malfeasance you are claiming.
         | 
         | I know people directly who have been affected by the layoffs.
         | They did work. It's just work that has been deprioritized.
         | 
         | Stop trying to demonize the workers who are victims of
         | mismanagement.
        
         | arcticbull wrote:
         | I couldn't disagree more with your take.
         | 
         | Meta is one of the most revenue efficient companies in the
         | history of the world. Each employee generates $1.929 million in
         | revenue, and they have an 79.63% profit margin. _After_
         | employee compensation. That 's _each employee_ including the
         | recruiters, EMs, etc.
         | 
         | Part of the reason these employees had to "fight" for work is
         | intentional - if they had more people than they needed and no
         | forcing function (i.e. perf cycle) then these people _wouldn
         | 't_ fight for their work, they'd just sit there getting paid
         | and not complaining about it. The company would then be
         | dramatically less efficient.
         | 
         | I disagree with their model in a lot of ways, but this is a
         | completely unfair characterization of how their incredibly
         | efficient org actually works.
         | 
         | They hired as though the COVID trajectory would continue, and
         | saw less attrition than expected as people stuck to their jobs
         | due to uncertainty. So they're trimming a little and re-
         | focusing. That's all.
         | 
         | > "I mean, like, we were just sitting there. We had to
         | basically fight to find work."
         | 
         | To put a very fine point on it, the reason they had to fight
         | (like everyone else there) is because if they didn't come up
         | with something to do that was quantifiable and impactful in
         | line with org goals, they'd be terminated within the year. It
         | was their job to find a way to be useful. The system culls
         | those who do not. It can be harsh and impersonal, yes, ruthless
         | even - but it is very effective.
         | 
         | > I had an indirect friend who loved to tell the story of how,
         | after his third project at Google got killed before launch, he
         | just stopped working and realized there were little, if any,
         | actual consequences for doing nothing ;P--never seemed to hold
         | any weight.
         | 
         | That was at Google. This is Meta. They are very different
         | companies. Each FAANG is completely different internally and it
         | would be a mistake to assume that experience translates.
        
           | dkasper wrote:
           | Just because Meta is pretty revenue efficient already doesn't
           | mean it couldn't be _more_ revenue efficient. Why is $2M per
           | employee good? It 's actually quite bad if Meta should be
           | generating $10M per employee.
        
         | corbulo wrote:
         | Saying Meta is just a single app is like saying Google is just
         | a search engine or Amazon is just a e-commerce site.
         | 
         | Meta while unsurprisingly not very efficient, does need a lot
         | of employees to maintain what they've built.
        
           | twelve40 wrote:
           | they don't need 87000 people to maintain what they have
           | built, if you don't believe me, take it from Zuck, who
           | already fired like what, 20k of them?
        
             | corbulo wrote:
             | You should read their 10-Q reports to figure out how
             | they're violating their fiduciary duty with your claims
             | here. You'd win millions of dollars in that suit.
        
         | dgs_sgd wrote:
         | > no one will ever be able to credibly claim that they need
         | thousands and thousands of people to maintain a single app ever
         | again
         | 
         | I don't think they'd ever claim this because these companies do
         | way more than "maintain a single app".
         | 
         | If companies don't attempt to innovate, even big ones, they
         | lose in the marketplace. Meta for example has multiple apps to
         | support, each serving hundreds of millions of users. On top of
         | mere maintenance, they experiment and add new features. On top
         | of that, what about the occasional greenfield/skunkworks type
         | projects?
         | 
         | It's a shame your friend worked on three consecutive projects
         | that got axed, but that's a separate problem from him being
         | able to coast without getting fired for it.
        
           | zer0zzz wrote:
           | I work at Meta on compiler support for all kinds of apps. We
           | regularly write and use some pretty aggressive compiler
           | optimizations and we often experiment and evolve lots of
           | compiler and programming language features that are really
           | experimental for use in our apps and services.
           | 
           | I don't think you can directly compare an app like the ones a
           | small team can build to the apps that larger more established
           | companies have to maintain and evolve. I mean sure you could
           | just do a full app rewrite and start from scratch but that's
           | hugely risky and certainly fails more often than it succeeds.
        
       | dathinab wrote:
       | > or to stop them working for rival
       | 
       | or because they bought up companies to prevent competition, but
       | couldn't just shut them down because doing so isn't quite legal
       | 
       | or because they have enough work for all that people, but fail to
       | manage the work load distribution because it's really hard and
       | for many core projects having more people isn't always good
       | beyond a certain point
        
       | yalogin wrote:
       | This sounds really bizarre to me. A company hiring to hoard
       | talent is just mind-blowing. If they have surplus money, they
       | should just acquire smaller companies and find talent. I really
       | hope this is not a company wide culture promoted by the upper
       | management and that some middle level manager who wants to feel
       | important started hiring to expand their team. If there is one
       | thing I want clarity on it's this. I really hope Mark and Sundar
       | talk about this at some point and explain what is going on
        
       | yawnxyz wrote:
       | Do engineers and designers suffer the same fate?
       | 
       | I interviewed with them a long time ago and basically couldn't
       | pass the interview. Had lots of ideas on what I wanted to work
       | on, and things I think would have made the platform better.
       | Didn't matter.
       | 
       | Why do they put up hugely difficult entrance exams, employ the
       | "best" and then... not put them to work? What's the point of
       | burning so much time and capital?
        
         | Mizoguchi wrote:
         | Perhaps because one A-player working for Meta is one A-player
         | less working for Google or TikTok.
        
           | malermeister wrote:
           | When I worked for Facebook, this was more or less accepted as
           | common knowledge amongst the employees. It's a pretty sweet
           | deal if you get your fulfillment from other (worse-paid)
           | pursuits.
           | 
           | I wfh'd a lot and dramatically improved my cooking skills!
        
         | rodgerd wrote:
         | If they hired you, you'd be competing with existing staff who
         | are already doing the practical day-to-day work that they need
         | done.
         | 
         | These kind of hires that the interviewee represents are about
         | keeping people away from competitors. These companies -
         | Facebook aren't the only one - are so rich that they can afford
         | to hire people simply to reduce the chance that competitors
         | will emerge; rather than waiting until you have to pay big
         | money for Instagram or Whatsapp, you identify the kind of
         | people who have the skills to build competitors, hire them, and
         | lock them in a basement somewhere.
        
         | FridgeSeal wrote:
         | > What's the point of burning so much time and capital?
         | 
         | Difficult to prove, but arguably, denying resources and skills
         | to the competition (or any other company in general).
        
       | tourgen wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | pengaru wrote:
       | Disclaimer: I didn't watch her video.
       | 
       | Nearly every tech job I've had there was the potential to do very
       | little to nothing and stay employed.
       | 
       | What I've gathered from her quotes in the Fortune article is that
       | this person failed to take advantage of her opportunity to be
       | paid highly with total autonomy while surrounded by Smart People.
       | 
       | It's long been an established practice to hire talented engineers
       | and let them make interesting things. Give them as much autonomy
       | as you can afford to. If they're smart and driven they'll produce
       | value.
       | 
       | Otherwise you're herding cats to do things you may not even
       | understand nearly as well as the supposed geniuses you've hired.
       | It's not a good use of your time and you'll probably fail at it.
       | 
       | Just look at the history of UNIX and Plan9 FFS. These guys were
       | messing around with what interested them! Management didn't know
       | what to tell them to work on... and we're all better for it with
       | these wonderful innovations.
       | 
       | This former Meta staffer just put a big fat DO NOT HIRE sign on
       | her forehead as far as I'm concerned.
        
         | luckydata wrote:
         | you're wrong. The issue at Meta is that you might not be able
         | to find the right combination of work that will get you a
         | positive evaluation come performance review time.
         | 
         | Let's say you get hired in an org where the opportunity for
         | impact are limited (mature area, blocked by dependencies in
         | other teams etc...) then doing nothing or doing stuff that
         | doesn't matter means you will get a poor performance review
         | unless you're politically savvy enough to get a LOT of people
         | to essentially overlook that the work you've done is
         | meaningless.
         | 
         | After the negative perf, you will get piped and then fired.
         | It's incredibly stressful to be in that situation and breeds
         | all kinds of bad behaviors that make Meta a bad place to work
         | at times (very often).
        
           | derwiki wrote:
           | Why would a new hire be placed in an org where opportunity
           | for impact is limited? What are they expected to do?
        
             | dilyevsky wrote:
             | Empire building
        
         | robryan wrote:
         | Not everyone wants this though. Many people, especially when
         | first starting out, would prefer some tasks to be assigned to
         | them.
        
         | TheBigSalad wrote:
         | That's a take.
        
         | lapcat wrote:
         | > It's long been an established practice to hire talented
         | engineers and let them make interesting things.
         | 
         | She wasn't an engineer. "Levy previously told Insider she was
         | hired on Meta's Sourcer Development Program, a 12-month program
         | that helps workers from underrepresented groups enter the
         | corporate technology recruiting industry."
         | 
         | The Insider article has a better representation of her
         | complaints:
         | 
         | "There were other people in our program that were nurses,
         | teachers, and firefighters. They left their jobs, their entire
         | career and Meta didn't even let them get one year of
         | experience."
         | 
         | "We were trying to pivot into a career. If you have anything
         | less than a year, you have to basically start from scratch
         | again. You have to start at the bottom."
         | 
         | Basically, these were people trying to break into tech, so they
         | were in need of both guidance and experience, not at all like
         | hiring experienced engineers and letting them run wild.
         | 
         | https://www.businessinsider.com/meta-facebook-worker-tech-la...
        
         | thrownawaydad wrote:
         | I think this is too harsh a take, at least without knowing
         | more. There are some managers and shops where "find something
         | useful to do" is encouraged, or at least accepted. I was
         | shocked to discover later in my career that there are plenty of
         | shops that are _not_ like that. High-paying shops, even, or
         | perhaps especially.
         | 
         | Why? For starters, some companies are rich, and they can afford
         | to waste a lot of money. Think of all of those interviews
         | you've been on that waste your time and that of the interview
         | loop, even though it's clear that they have never intended to
         | hire. Or maybe just 1 in 500. (One company I was hired at
         | boasted to me about the "500". Ugh.)
         | 
         | Or, at least in the trading world, things can be very
         | secretive. You might have the skills to contribute, but no one
         | will even talk to you, for fear that you'll steal the secret
         | sauce.
         | 
         | Mostly it's just simple managerial incompetence.
         | 
         | The employer/employee match is sort of like a key and lock. In
         | order for it to work, _all_ of the pins have to align. It's not
         | enough to be a skilled, team-player, etc., employee. Your
         | employer also has to bring several things to the table.
         | Sometimes they just don't.
        
         | cududa wrote:
         | BS. 90% of people aren't "self-starters". That's fine. Further,
         | the vast majority of "self guided" software engineers work on
         | nonsense that scratches an intellectual itch, not something
         | that moves the business forward.
        
       | ugh123 wrote:
       | TLDR; Her job was "DEI Program Sourcing Specialist"
       | 
       | Basically, a recruiter.
        
       | floatinglotus wrote:
       | Another day, another indication that Meta is an awful company
       | from top to bottom, ruled by a socially awkward buffoon from his
       | private island.
       | 
       | I wonder what is in store for tomorrow?
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Please don't post unsubstantive or name-calling comments to HN.
         | 
         | You may not owe companies better, but you owe this community
         | better if you're participating in it.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
       | saos wrote:
       | > It was a very strange environment and it kind of seemed that
       | Meta was hiring people so that other companies couldn't have us
       | and they were just hoarding us like Pokemon cards."
       | 
       | Really????
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | tinglymintyfrsh wrote:
       | In technical circles, I doubt it.
       | 
       | ICs can do whatever they want. Performance is based on impact, so
       | you have to pick the right things to work on yourself.
       | 
       | There are very few non-performers because the calibration process
       | is brutal and efficient.
       | 
       | Maybe there are non-technical realms of empire building like any
       | megacorp, but that would be nothing new.
        
       | shagie wrote:
       | Article about Brit Levy from Washington Post a bit over a month
       | ago with some more context and info:
       | 
       | After layoffs, Meta, tech companies face uphill battle to boost
       | diversity - https://wapo.st/3lmVr6w
        
       | cletus wrote:
       | A lot of people don't understand what's going on here. Maybe you
       | haven't worked for a large company but it operates quite
       | differently to a small company.
       | 
       | Two things can be true at once: a company can both need to hire
       | and people at that company can have difficulty finding a role.
       | These are not contradictory statements.
       | 
       | Orgs and teams within large companies have budgets and/or head
       | counts. They need to "spend" these to hire. They hire with
       | external hires and internal transfers. Like any recruitment it
       | can take time. A given position might have a bunch of external
       | and internal candidates. Team may also want to keep head count
       | open to use opportunistically.
       | 
       | If you are employed at a large company, you may be competing with
       | a bunch of internal and external candidates for a job. You can
       | fail to find a position and these positions are being filled by
       | other people.
       | 
       | Think about it this way: we have an unemployment rate that is in
       | large part transitional because of these time factors. We won't
       | hit 0% unemployment. That's just not possible.
       | 
       | Saying failure to find an internal job is evidence of over-hiring
       | is like saying "there is no labor shortage because I could not
       | get a job" (side note: for completeness, "labor shortage" isn't
       | realy anyway; there are only "wage deficits" not "labor
       | shortages").
        
       | spaceguillotine wrote:
       | honestly the first month I worked at Google they knew they needed
       | bodies but didn't have offices for us, we doubled up on desks and
       | split into two shifts had zero policy for the work they wanted
       | done and some days had no available work load for our teams and
       | then would have us do busy work that no one was trained on for
       | other depts who would them throw out all our work. (this was 2010
       | to 2012) my NDA is expired yo. Second shift got Pizza every night
       | for meals as the kitchen wouldn't stay open late enough for us.
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | > Rabois ... told a banking event earlier this month that Big
       | Tech companies like Meta and Google had hired thousands of people
       | ... and to stop them working for rivals.
       | 
       | I got an _informal_ offer like this over dinner once, when I was
       | trying to get a startup off the ground:  "Come work for us; you
       | can do your startup or find something else interesting. Just send
       | me an email and I'll hire you". They told me explicitly that they
       | were hiring certain people to keep those folks from working for
       | the competition.
       | 
       | I stress _informal_ because, though I continue talking /emailing
       | with this person (whom I already knew), and still do, I didn't
       | ask to follow up. So sure, they could have been bullshitting, but
       | why volunteer something like that unless it was real?
        
       | seydor wrote:
       | An excess of money
        
       | borroka wrote:
       | I find myself in a situation similar to the one described by
       | "Meta staffer" in the article. I was hired a few years ago in a
       | biotech company and, after some months of mostly uneventful work
       | -- but I was doing something -- for the past two years I have
       | done almost nothing.
       | 
       | I tried to propose new ideas and projects, offered my expertise
       | to other groups, but my attempts were met with benign
       | indifference. After realizing that looking for work meant to
       | others that I had nothing better to do at work (or nothing to do,
       | basically, at work), I have decided to put the proverbial feet on
       | the desk and milk the money until I can find a job -- elsewhere
       | -- that I like better. The challenge I see is that I am getting
       | paid very well -- exceptionally well considering I do very little
       | -- and very much enjoying the mental and physical freedom that my
       | current nonexistent workload is giving me.
        
         | swader999 wrote:
         | Work from home and get another remote job.
        
         | theGnuMe wrote:
         | Umm.. don't you have a manager? Surely they could find work for
         | you, no?
        
           | andmikey wrote:
           | My first job out of college was like this. My manager knew I
           | had no work and had no particular interest in letting me take
           | on anything I proposed or found. I ended up quitting a few
           | months in because (on top of a few other issues) I found it
           | way too soul-destroying to have _nothing_ to do.
        
           | borroka wrote:
           | I do. But it is one of the situations that converge in a kind
           | of mutually beneficial indifference. It is no different in
           | spirit from that of a husband and wife who live under the
           | same roof but seek intimacy elsewhere, or who have repressed
           | their desires for so long that they no longer even remember
           | how to make a baby.
        
         | devindotcom wrote:
         | The way I see it as a worker you are making your abilities
         | available and are entitled absolutely to the wages they give
         | you. Kind of feels like robbing them sure, but they're robbing
         | themselves. More of an indictment of capitalism and corporate
         | structure than anything else. Pay it forward if you can and
         | their loss is everyone else's gain.
        
         | yawnxyz wrote:
         | It's also funny that if you just straight up tell them you're
         | not doing anything and need work, they're indifferent.
         | 
         | And if you ask them if you're SUPPOSED to do NOTHING, they get
         | defensive. I'd rather work with people who at least have the
         | ability to admit you're just hired to pad out the roster.
        
       | dfadsadsf wrote:
       | She was recruiter hired right at about time when Meta announced
       | hiring freeze. The only lesson here is not that FAANG hires
       | people to do nothing but that Meta was way too slow to layoff 90%
       | of recruiting org probably because it hoped economy/revenues
       | improve and company will resume hiring.
        
         | Calvin02 wrote:
         | Yeah, and that she joined just as the internal demand was
         | probably going down. She was hired in anticipation of a need
         | that didn't materialize. Kudos to her for "fighting" for work.
         | Most people would be tempted to slack off.
        
         | helen___keller wrote:
         | Was she a recruiter? It didn't specify in the article
        
           | NonEUCitizen wrote:
           | In recent years, "sourcers" are the ones who email / call
           | engineers on behalf of the recruiters. They are part of the
           | recruiting department.
           | 
           | Article says:
           | 
           | "Levy previously told Insider she was hired on Meta's Sourcer
           | Development Program, a 12-month program that helps workers
           | from underrepresented groups enter the corporate technology
           | recruiting industry."
        
             | perryh2 wrote:
             | I'm surprised there was a 12-month program to become a
             | sourcer.
        
               | chris11 wrote:
               | It could make sense. I'm assuming they will be doing
               | actual work during that time. A paid 12 month long
               | apprenticeship would be good for both parties. It's
               | enough time for Meta to decide if they want to hire an
               | employee full time, and a year would give sourcers a
               | decent amount of experience if they wanted to leave.
        
           | Matthias247 wrote:
           | it's in the headline: "staffer"
        
             | wizee wrote:
             | Staffer means member of staff. For example, engineers are
             | staffers.
        
             | komadori wrote:
             | That just means a member of staff.
        
               | Matthias247 wrote:
               | Ok sorry. Then it was a misunderstanding of my side as
               | non native speaker. I always assumed it means recruiter
               | since I've so far never seen the word used in another
               | context
        
             | jimnotgym wrote:
             | Doesn't that just mean she was on the staff? I wouldn't
             | understand staffer to mean recruiter. Is it different in
             | the US?
        
       | giords wrote:
       | Big Head, from "Silicon Valley" the show, comes to mind
        
         | wgx wrote:
         | Rest and Vest
        
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