[HN Gopher] Show HN: Can you beat my dad at Scrabble?
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Show HN: Can you beat my dad at Scrabble?
        
       Author : danieltait
       Score  : 183 points
       Date   : 2023-03-16 09:34 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (dadagrams.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (dadagrams.com)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jo6gwb wrote:
       | I play the NYT mini puzzle against my dad every day.
       | 
       | We don't really like wordle but this is super fun!
        
       | almara wrote:
       | I love the different computer characters, Elefata? haha! The
       | different difficulty levels are really well made. Fun game.
        
       | marymkearney wrote:
       | I really love that I spent more time on this, than on the 3 HN
       | articles I read about amping your productivity and forming good
       | habits.
        
       | darkerside wrote:
       | Instead of just click and drag, I would make the tiles pop up
       | into the next available spot when you click on them. It would
       | make the game a lot more effortless and fun to play.
        
       | sebstefan wrote:
       | That's really fun, it's somehow totally doing something to know
       | I'm in competition with someone's dad
       | 
       | Two suggestions, you need to put an actual URL in the "share"
       | text in the clipboard. With https:// before the domain. It's so
       | that people can click the link on instant messaging platforms for
       | viral traffic
       | 
       | Then, I need some dad lore
        
       | itslennysfault wrote:
       | Well... I'm kinda a jerk for this, but it's also a free lesson on
       | why global variables are baaaaad.
       | 
       | Also, I wrote this in seconds and I know it could be more
       | efficient / cleaner. don't @ me.
       | 
       | Toss this in your browser's dev console to get the best word
       | available for each puzzle instantly                   function
       | solvePuzzle(puzzle, words) {             const letters = {};
       | puzzle.forEach(l => {                 if (!letters[l]) {
       | letters[l] = 0;                 }                 letters[l]++;
       | });                  let best = '';
       | words.forEach(word => {                 if (word.length >
       | puzzle.length) {                     return;                 }
       | const has = { ...letters };                 for (let i = 0; i <
       | word.length; i++) {                     if (!has[word[i]]) {
       | return;                     }                     has[word[i]]--;
       | }                 if (word.length > best.length) {
       | best = word;                 }             });             return
       | best;         }              // lettersarray and wordlist are
       | both globally available         solvePuzzle(lettersarray,
       | wordlist);
        
         | pstorm wrote:
         | > don't @ me
         | 
         | I'm @ing you :) This code only checks for the longest word, not
         | the highest scoring word. It neglects the x3 and x2 tile
         | spaces.
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | Maybe add to the "how to play" that you don't have to use all
       | letters. I thought you have to use all and gave up after a while,
       | before reading comments here discussing actual solution words.
        
         | dunefox wrote:
         | For me it was pretty obvious.
        
       | airza wrote:
       | It's missing the 50 point bonus for playing all 7 letters :(
        
       | helsinki wrote:
       | Yes
        
       | marymkearney wrote:
       | This is really cute. Addictive, even. Which dictionary does it
       | use? Official Scrabble Players Dictionary? Could it say which one
       | in the instructions?
       | 
       | There are words in OSPD (ex. fab) that aren't accepted. It also
       | accepts words (ex. oonts, accas) that aren't in OSPD.
       | 
       | Can you tell I tried it, um, several times? It's fun.
        
         | danieltait wrote:
         | The Collins Scrabble Words 2019 dictionary!
        
           | marymkearney wrote:
           | Oh cool thanks :)
        
           | marymkearney wrote:
           | Can I charge you my hourly rate for the last hour I just
           | spent? Bookmarking this, more hours will give their lives for
           | the worthy quest of beating your dad.
        
       | danieltait wrote:
       | This was a really fun game to make.
       | 
       | We've been playing scrabble together for years so it's nice I'm
       | finally competent enough to code this online version.
       | 
       | I posted it on reddit and now over 1000 people are playing
       | against my dad everyday haha.
        
         | erickhill wrote:
         | So are you like Desmond on LOST where every day, after you and
         | your dad play, you have to run to the computer to type in the
         | latest Dad-Word to keep the machine alive?
        
         | JeanMarcS wrote:
         | Well, this is very frustrating. I really wanted to play, I like
         | the idea of competiting with your dad. But as a non native
         | english speaker, my vocabulary is too low to give me a chance.
         | Anyway, great idea !
         | 
         | (I don't know if you are aware, but in French speaking
         | countries, competition are mostly played this way, everyone
         | with the same letters. At the end everybody got its own points
         | and the best word is placed on the board)
        
           | playingalong wrote:
           | It's called Duplicate Scrabble:
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duplicate_Scrabble
        
           | danieltait wrote:
           | Send me a french dad and a french dictionary and I can add it
           | this afternoon haha!
           | 
           | Wow no I didn't know that is how the french play. I believe
           | it is a much fairer version of the game and better tests the
           | players skill
        
         | anentropic wrote:
         | It's nice!
         | 
         | My only gripe is: any time you click away from the tab, when
         | you click back to it it resets the screen (shuffles the pile
         | and clears any letters you had placed)
        
           | danieltait wrote:
           | Hmm yes ok I just removed the refresh now.
           | 
           | The reason it was there is some days I opened the tab on my
           | iphone and for some reason it still showed the yesterdays
           | result rather than the new day's letters.
           | 
           | Will have a think of a better way to force the refresh of the
           | letters on a new day.
        
             | robertlagrant wrote:
             | setTimeout() with a timeout calculated to fire after
             | midnight?
        
             | wizzwizz4 wrote:
             | > _The reason it was there is some days I opened the tab on
             | my iphone and for some reason it still showed the
             | yesterdays result rather than the new day 's letters._
             | 
             | This'll be the Cache-Control header interacting with tab
             | resume: rather than setting that to expire after X time has
             | elapsed, set it to expire at time=T, and the browser will1
             | fetch the new page instead. You'd increase the
             | effectiveness of this technique (and reduce your bandwidth
             | requirements for repeat players) if you made `/daily` a
             | static page, and factored out those JavaScript variables
             | into a separate file, fetched with `fetch` or
             | `XMLHttpRequest` (or even a `<script>` tag, like
             | `wordlist.js` is).
             | 
             | If I've configured my browser to behave otherwise (e.g. it
             | takes me longer than a day to solve each puzzle), I
             | _really_ don 't want it overriding that and resetting on
             | me: that would make me very sad.
             | 
             | 1: _usually_. Firefox Session Restore behaves differently -
             | but that 's expected behaviour. Every website _ever_
             | behaves like that: it 's what I expect, because I expect to
             | be able to close my browser and open it again and still
             | have more-or-less the same pages available. After all, I've
             | got a refresh button, but no un-refresh button.
        
             | jfindley wrote:
             | This is still happening btw - if I quickly switch to
             | another tab it resets the board completely, giving me a
             | different puzzle in practice mode. This makes it sadly
             | unusable for me.
        
               | danieltait wrote:
               | Sorry! I had only changed for the daily. Removed from
               | practice and play now as well
        
         | anentropic wrote:
         | A couple more ideas:
         | 
         | - could be nice to have it calculate and show the score of the
         | word you have currently placed
         | 
         | - when you place a tile on the DL or TL you can't see where the
         | DL and TL are any more (I think on Scrabble board they have
         | little triangles that stick out past the edges?)
         | 
         | - I found myself wanting to know the 'target' score, but I
         | guess that would change the experience a bit
        
           | danieltait wrote:
           | 1. It shows the score just above the word if it is valid! 2.
           | Yes agree thats a good idea. 3. I could add a new game mode
           | where it shows you the target score, but I'm going to keep
           | dad's score hidden for my own entertainment haha
        
             | TheHumanist wrote:
             | Could just do a minimal outer box shadow/glow around the
             | tile in the color of the DL or TL to remind people where
             | they are once letters are laid down.
        
             | Symbiote wrote:
             | It wasn't clear to me that I needed to start from the
             | leftmost box.
        
               | anentropic wrote:
               | same here :)
        
       | Tade0 wrote:
       | I can't hope to beat an experienced native speaker at this game,
       | but it might be useful for expanding my vocabulary.
       | 
       | Case in point: my language doesn't really have a word for
       | "almonry" - there's usually no dedicated space for
       | collecting/dispensing alms.
       | 
       | By far the best Scrabble player I ever encountered was a former
       | corporate drone in his 50s, who hiked 40km+ daily in the
       | Carpathians and was in charge of maintaining a mountain shelter
       | there.
       | 
       | When he wasn't out hiking, chopping wood or collecting water he
       | would be sitting in the common room absolutely dominating the
       | Scrabble board. I don't know his story and he didn't talk much
       | about himself, but with age I increasingly get the appeal of such
       | a life.
        
         | Symbiote wrote:
         | Without context, I doubt many native English speakers would
         | know the meaning of "almonry".
         | 
         | From [1], they seem obsolete well before any colonization, so
         | it's probably only British people with an interest in church
         | history.
         | 
         | "Alms" is already fairly obscure, [2] puts it at word frequency
         | 44625. Almonry is not in the top 333,333 words.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almonry
         | 
         | [2] http://norvig.com/ngrams/
        
         | danieltait wrote:
         | You can also play against an easier ai here -
         | https://dadagrams.com/play
        
         | nebulous1 wrote:
         | Be wary of the top answers it will give you. Quite a lot of the
         | top answers will technically be words in English but are
         | essentially completely unused and most people won't even know
         | or understand them.
         | 
         | For instance, today's top words:
         | 
         | Obvert - I know this one but it isn't too common.
         | 
         | Overt - This was my answer, it's not uncommon.
         | 
         | Over - Common
         | 
         | Evo - I've never seen this used as a word other than a name.
         | 
         | Bevor - Apparently this is medieval neck armour. Uncommon.
         | 
         | Ouvert - From ballet according to the internet. Uncommon,
         | although I know it as a French word.
         | 
         | Note this isn't the game's fault, they're all in the scrabble
         | dictionary it's using. These words are only useful if you want
         | to win scrabble, not if you want to speak English.
        
           | cdelsolar wrote:
           | I found obvert in the daily puzzles.. and tabanid in the
           | practice puzzle. There's nothing wrong with learning
           | "Scrabble" words.
        
       | FujiApple wrote:
       | This is great, good luck with the inevitable NYT buyout :)
       | 
       | One nit, the letters could snap the grid a bit more aggressive, I
       | found I frequently had letter "miss" the grid and have to drag
       | them again (on an iPad).
        
         | codethief wrote:
         | > This is great, good luck with the inevitable NYT buyout :)
         | 
         | How much do you think will his dad make at NYT?
        
       | dbg31415 wrote:
       | It's really cute!
       | 
       | I'd change up the UX a bit.
       | 
       | 1 - For the drag and drop, I'd keep the original letter in place,
       | and just make the original slightly transparent as you drag.
       | Reason being, as you drag on a phone you can't see the original
       | letter since your finger is on it... so leaving the original as
       | an indicator is good.
       | 
       | https://master--5fc05e08a4a65d0021ae0bf2.chromatic.com/?path...
       | 
       | 2 - For the drag and drop, I would add a a "drop indicator" as
       | you mouse over each square.
       | 
       | https://master--5fc05e08a4a65d0021ae0bf2.chromatic.com/?path...
       | 
       | 3 - For things like "Triple Letter" I would change it up... "x3"
       | -- I know you're going for "Scrabble" but frankly the text is a
       | bit small for older people, who I think make up the "Dads" in
       | your audience.
       | 
       | 4 - Instead of "Delete" I would change the word to "Recall" for
       | recalling letters you placed on the board.
       | 
       | 5 - For the Colors I would go more vibrant.
       | 
       | 6 - For font sizes, bigger is better. https://imgur.com/a/kduZzwl
       | 
       | 7 - For buttons, I would suggest having different colors for
       | different buttons. Having them all black means you have to read
       | through them all... having one as a clear "primary" color helps.
        
       | gowld wrote:
       | > Dadagrams is a variation of Scrabble I play with my Dad where
       | we both play the same letters each turn.
       | 
       | It's also the "newspaper puzzle" version of Scrabble, that your
       | Dad played when he was a child.
        
       | aardvark179 wrote:
       | The colouring of the double and triple letter squares confused me
       | because they are like the colours on a scrabble board but don't
       | share the same meaning. I thought TROVE would get me 27 points in
       | today's puzzle but it was only 11. :-(
       | 
       | Edit: 27, not 24. Another useful thing would be the ability to
       | view the puzzle and your answer. I had to reverse engineer the
       | squares from the possible scores. :-)
        
       | gareve wrote:
       | i cannot find an explanation of the TL & DL tiles
        
         | logicallee wrote:
         | Me neither. Can someone explain the rules? (What do the red and
         | blue tiles mean? How do you play?)
        
           | Gasp0de wrote:
           | Double Letter, Triple Letter (I think). It triples the amount
           | of points you get for the letter that is on it. So try to put
           | valuable letters on that spot.
        
           | IanCal wrote:
           | Tap the letter to place them down. If what you put down is a
           | real word it should tell you how many points you score.
           | 
           | Each letter has a number on, that's the score for using it.
           | 
           | DL and tl are double and triple letter tiles respectively.
           | You get double or triple the points.
           | 
           | I'm not sure if they added it but in the real game you'd get
           | 50 bonus points if you use all your letters.
        
             | danieltait wrote:
             | I haven't added the bonus 50 points but maybe I should?
        
               | logicallee wrote:
               | Thanks for the fix (TL & DL changed to double letter and
               | triple letter), now it's much clearer.
        
         | IanCal wrote:
         | Those I expect will be double letter and triple letter tiles.
         | You get double or triple the points for the letter on the tile.
        
         | mcsniff wrote:
         | Triple Letter score and Double Letter score.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Scrabble/Rules
         | 
         | A simple search on your search engine of choice would have
         | yielded the answer.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | cx0der wrote:
         | TL - Triple Letter. Letter value x 3 DL - Double Letter. Letter
         | value x 2
         | 
         | Is this what you were looking for?
        
         | danieltait wrote:
         | Thanks for the feedback! Triple and double letter score. I've
         | just changed now so it says it explicitly
        
       | dbg31415 wrote:
       | Cute! But doesn't work in Firefox Focus. The submit button on a
       | round can't be pressed.
        
       | dmarlow wrote:
       | I absolutely love it! Thanks for making it so simple and clean.
        
       | ManiAbod wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | sircastor wrote:
       | I enjoyed that. And I enjoy that there's a specific competitor
       | (and an abstract "Dad" at that)
        
       | mandmandam wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | whoomp12342 wrote:
       | any way I could send this TO my dad and see how he does?
        
       | amenghra wrote:
       | Nice game!
       | 
       | nit: I found the sentence "you found the nth highest scoring
       | word" a little confusing since there can be >n words with a
       | higher score (e.g. there could be 6 words scoring 12 and you
       | found the 2nd highest scoring word with a score of 11).
        
         | danieltait wrote:
         | Thanks!
         | 
         | Hmm yes what do you think could be a better way? Just the
         | number of points?
        
           | amenghra wrote:
           | You could just drop the sentence since the top scoring words
           | are shown below.
           | 
           | Other nits:
           | 
           | - Gray the submit button until the word is valid, otherwise
           | it's unclear why clicking on the submit button doesn't do
           | anything.
           | 
           | - If you are trying to find a word and switch tabs, things
           | get reset when you come back.
           | 
           | - If you place tiles forming a word, a space, random tiles:
           | you can submit the first set of letters. IMHO, it shouldn't
           | let you submit if you have spaces between tiles.
           | 
           | - Display the best word I have found so far, but let me keep
           | trying other tiles.
        
           | the_imp wrote:
           | "You found the Nth highest word score"
        
           | taejo wrote:
           | The usual thing in this case is to call it the 7th highest-
           | scoring word (but call all of those above it the highest-
           | scoring)
        
             | shawabawa3 wrote:
             | I much prefer how it is currently
             | 
             | The important thing is not that there are 6 better words,
             | but there is 1 better score (i.e. you got the second best
             | score possible)
        
       | GNOMES wrote:
       | Really fun! I beat your dad by 2 points lol.
       | 
       | Feature that is missing vs actually playing Scrabble is the
       | ability to play a fake word if other players do not call you out
       | on it.
       | 
       | I wonder if you could find a list of common misspelled words or
       | fake words to allow, or could have some logic that compares the
       | percentage word is misspelled by, and have the computer call it
       | out as fake if it is over say 25% misspelled or something.
        
         | sverona wrote:
         | I have never met an AI that doesn't have the dictionary built
         | in. If you want to play phonies check Woogles.
        
       | Lapsa wrote:
       | no
        
       | komali2 wrote:
       | Anybody got a better word than overt for 17 points for today's?
       | Also I would love to play that IRL against my own dad immediately
       | after him placing "over," he'd be furious lol
        
         | Symbiote wrote:
         | When you submit it tells you the "top words today".
         | 
         | ROT13: Pheeragyl gur irel orfg jbeq vf boireg sbe na nqqvgvbany
         | cbvag.
         | 
         | Terccvat /hfe/funer/qvpg/jbeqf V qb abg frr nalguvat orggre.
        
       | mordae wrote:
       | It does not accept VTUBER for todays letters. Those "official"
       | dictionaries are super boring. Pass.
        
       | capitainenemo wrote:
       | After trying a few practice rounds. I don't know if the generator
       | is the same for the daily, but I feel like bonus tiles should be
       | left biased since the board requires starting at the left. Many
       | times with the letters given it was impossible to reach any
       | bonuses which reduces the fun a little I feel.
       | 
       | Or... perhaps allow starting on any tile to try and arrange
       | letter scoring optimally? That might add something as well.
        
         | danieltait wrote:
         | Hmm yes it is just random right now and agree often they are
         | impossible to reach!
         | 
         | Will have a think how and if it should be more weighted
        
       | nyerp wrote:
       | Love it!! But you've GOT to improve the sharing feature. This is
       | a great, accessible daily game. Connect it with Facebook, or at
       | least give people something they can cut-and-paste without having
       | to open an email client!
       | 
       | And the information you provide below is good (it provides a bit
       | of "braggy" info without giving the answer away) but I would make
       | it more conversational, e.g., "I beat Dad!" and then "I beat Dad
       | again!" and then "I'm on a roll... I beat Dad 3 times in a row!"
       | and add a call to action like "Can you beat Dad too? Try here:
       | https://dadagrams.com".
       | 
       | The "Dad" emoji is _chef 's kiss_. Definitely keep that in the
       | share message.
       | 
       | For reference, here's the current share message (minus the great
       | emoji, which apparently HN does not support):
       | 
       | #dadagrams14
       | 
       | Today: Won by 2 points
       | 
       | All time: Winning by 2 points
       | 
       | Daily streak: 1
       | 
       | https://dadagrams.com
        
         | shawabawa3 wrote:
         | > But you've GOT to improve the sharing feature. This is a
         | great, accessible daily game. Connect it with Facebook, or at
         | least give people something they can cut-and-paste without
         | having to open an email client!
         | 
         | They're using the "Wordle" share method which worked insanely
         | well, precisely due to the fact it _didn 't_ try to share with
         | facebook or anything annoying, you just copy paste into an IM
         | client
        
           | nyerp wrote:
           | That's not correct, based on my experience. Yes, you could
           | copy-and-paste the "results" page, but that contains the
           | answer, so it's no good for sharing. To get the actual
           | "share" text (using Chrome on Windows 11), I had to open an
           | email client when prompted and then cut-and-paste the text
           | from the email the game created.
        
             | shawabawa3 wrote:
             | weird, for me it copied the sharing text
        
             | llimllib wrote:
             | same on mac - I had to open it in Notes
        
       | netterminalgene wrote:
       | Dope game, turned it into a prompt, its been fun trying to
       | optimize it.
       | 
       | You are a scrabble word master. The rules of the game are as
       | follows. -- Create the highest scoring word you can with the 7
       | letters! The word must start in the first square of the board and
       | be at least 2 letters long. 2x and 3x squares double and triple
       | the value of that letter. The total points for your word will
       | appear above a valid word.
       | 
       | The letters to point values are represented as a string where the
       | point value follows the letter --- E1R1B3U1O1V4T1
       | 
       | The second square is 3x points, the fifth square is 2x points and
       | the 7th square is 3x points.
       | 
       | The word must be a real english word. Lets think step by step.
        
         | m4tthumphrey wrote:
         | I just tried this and was blown away. Maybe I should start
         | giving this ChatGPT some attention...
        
       | onetokeoverthe wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | PeterWhittaker wrote:
       | Nit: it indicated I had chosen the 3rd highest scoring word, and
       | listed a Latin word as first.
       | 
       | Don't normal scrabble words preclude foreign words?
        
         | PeterWhittaker wrote:
         | In another case, one word it proposed as higher scoring was
         | "vizy", with the wiktionary page being their "this page doesn't
         | exist yet" 404...
        
         | Symbiote wrote:
         | The top word for today's puzzle is an English word.
         | 
         | http://norvig.com/ngrams/ says it's the 28462-most-frequent
         | English word, slightly more frequent than pronounce, lactating,
         | aquamarine, sedimentation and slime.
        
           | PeterWhittaker wrote:
           | Which word was that? I encountered this particular word
           | (sadly, I do not remember the word) doing practice rounds.
        
             | PeterWhittaker wrote:
             | Also, I just noticed that the practice rounds and the daily
             | dadagram use different tiling.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | meganlawson wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | whutno wrote:
       | I tried playing "VERB" with the "V" on the first triple letter
       | tile, but when I tapped Submit, nothing happened. This was on the
       | current daily puzzle. Is this a bug or am I doing it wrong?
        
         | sebstefan wrote:
         | Yeah you did it wrong, dad's gonna wipe the floor with "verb"!
         | 
         | But also you have to start on the first square
        
         | charlesharvey wrote:
         | I think you have to start the word on the first tile.
        
         | danieltait wrote:
         | You have to start the word in the first square. I've just added
         | an error message to highlight that when you try submit. Thanks
         | for the feedback!
        
           | TheHumanist wrote:
           | Oh so it doesn't have to use all seven squares. Interesting
        
           | Karellen wrote:
           | The error message doesn't appear to show up on practice mode
           | yet? I do see it on the regular mode though.
        
             | danieltait wrote:
             | Updated now thanks!
        
           | tobr wrote:
           | Some unstated things that I didn't understand, if it helps
           | make the game better:
           | 
           | - You don't have to use all letters.
           | 
           | - You _do_ have to start the word all the way to the left.
           | 
           | - It has to be a valid scrabble word before you get any
           | feedback at all.
           | 
           | I think you should try to give much more feedback when the
           | player tries different things, so they have a chance to
           | figure out the rules.
        
             | danieltait wrote:
             | I've added an instructions page now, thanks!
        
       | noduerme wrote:
       | Like, this is neat. And fun. Small, simple and chill.
       | 
       | So what I'm about to say is not specifically a knock against your
       | game.
       | 
       | What I've noticed lately on HN is this weird split where
       | everything has to either be _super_ basic - like, this game could
       | have been literally written with BASIC in 1984 - or else it has
       | to be an abstract conversation about the future of AI. With very
       | little in the middle.
       | 
       | What would be in the middle? I don't know, like, games that
       | people spent a couple years making. Things with awesome graphics.
       | Or small games that showcased interesting new game mechanics. The
       | rise (resurrection?) of the one-shot HTML game, I get it, it's a
       | rebuke of all the overly complicated stuff. Concept over
       | execution. Wordle got bought up, right? But aren't we already on
       | the long tail of that?
       | 
       | Again, this is not a knock - this would be fun to make in spare
       | time, and it would be fun to play if I had spare time. I'm just
       | wondering why there's this decisive move away from tacking up
       | things that took a long time to make. And I'll be willing to
       | sound bitter: For example, I posted a project here not too long
       | ago that I worked on for a year. It was too complicated or posted
       | at the wrong time. I have several others that are more
       | sophisticated, that I know now are just too much for anyone here
       | to look at and upvote.
       | 
       | On the other side, discussion (practically worship) of higher-
       | level usage of enormously complicated things like GPT seem to
       | drastically outpace discussion of the underlying mechanics.
       | 
       | If every little piece of code you put on the internet is a card
       | trick (and it is) then this is a forum about magic, and we should
       | stop being proud that we can do a trick, and start talking about
       | how tricks work and how to make them better.
        
         | skrebbel wrote:
         | I think the abstract conversations about the future of AI are
         | in the same ballpark as this. Thing is, there's only two kinds
         | of makers you see on HN:
         | 
         | - People who make small simple things and put them on HN
         | 
         | - People who make bigger nontrivial stuff
         | 
         | The latter stuff also shows up on HN but less often because the
         | amount of time spent making is so much more, like if something
         | takes 3 years it's a single Show HN and if it takes a day to
         | make it's also a single Show HN. Also note that a decent blog
         | post takes about as long to make as a basic game, ie "thought
         | leadership" is in box 1.
         | 
         | The people working at OpenAI and related are empathically _not_
         | spending all their time doing Show HNs, nor even blogging on
         | the AI future. They 're actually making stuff, just like indie
         | gamedevs or the average Microsoft employee. They're all in box
         | 2.
         | 
         | Lots of people are doing nontrivial stuff all the time, but
         | most of it isn't big enough for other people to write blog
         | posts and huge HN comment threads about, yet also not small
         | enough to make a new HN submission every few days.
        
         | ahoya wrote:
         | In the middle is the vast majority of HN content: serious
         | businesses.
        
         | jerrre wrote:
         | Interesting observation about the split of subjects
         | 
         | One similarity is: both don't take too long to create. The AI
         | it self might, but the thought about it don't
        
           | noduerme wrote:
           | > both don't take too long to create
           | 
           | That's what I've been noticing, and why I gravitate toward
           | those comments about AI which are like, "have you thought
           | about using an if/then for this thing?"
        
         | cosmojg wrote:
         | You should check out https://lobster.rs! It's like HN if it
         | were dedicated to the middle of that content distribution you
         | describe. Nothing too simple, but nothing too abstract either.
        
           | candleknight wrote:
           | that link's broken, I think you meant https://lobste.rs/
        
         | TheHumanist wrote:
         | If ya poop, ya have time for dadagrams!
        
           | 867-5309 wrote:
           | exactly! two types of people on HN: those who have five or
           | ten minutes to spare (on the bog) and those who comment
           | "professionally" to bolster some sense of compulsion
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | _those who comment "professionally" to bolster some sense
             | of compulsion_
             | 
             | I wonder what would happen to the quality of discourse on
             | HN if there wasn't a scorecard at the top of each screen.
             | 
             | The "gamification" of everything is so 2010.
        
               | blowski wrote:
               | True, I wonder how much internet points improve quality
               | of conversation. Given some people keep arguing even when
               | they're being downvoted into oblivion, there must be
               | something deeper, like a need for engagement.
        
               | kevviiinn wrote:
               | It is a well known fact that everyone who gets down voted
               | is always wrong
        
               | throwway120385 wrote:
               | And the person getting downvoted is never an expert
               | talking to amateurs, and the downvoters are always
               | correct that there is zero nuance to the subject.
        
         | tobr wrote:
         | There's something pleasant about software that feels light and
         | simple and does one thing well. Most software tends to grow to
         | become perhaps more useful, but also complex and inelegant.
         | 
         | Not sure if that explains your observation or not, but at least
         | it's what attracts me to engage with a submission like this.
        
         | jstanley wrote:
         | I've noticed this as well, and not just on HN.
         | 
         | If you do a bit of knitting that is obviously an amateur's
         | attempt, people will say "wow, so cool that you can knit". When
         | you work hard and get better at knitting and you produce stuff
         | that is so good that it's commercial-product quality, people
         | will say "what's the point in spending all that time and effort
         | when you can just buy one?". Only when you become _so good at
         | knitting_ that your output is of a quality that is not
         | generally available commercially do people find it interesting
         | again.
         | 
         | Replace "knitting" with anything you like: programming,
         | painting, woodworking, welding, electronics, 3d printing,
         | pottery, basket-weaving, card tricks, ...
         | 
         | People are interested in things that seem cute and homemade.
         | They're interested in things that are better than anything
         | they've seen before. They're not generally interested in the
         | mediocre middle, even when it has been created by 1 person who
         | spent a lot of time and tried hard, rather than by a faceless
         | megacorporation.
         | 
         | EDIT: I think I did the faceless megacorporations a disservice
         | there. Faceless megacorporations _also_ make high quality
         | products through the hard work of their employees, they just do
         | such a great job, and they mass-produce so efficiently, that
         | the products end up inconceivably cheap and we take them for
         | granted.
        
           | ihappentobe wrote:
           | Mentioning "knitting" and etc. is interesting, and reminds me
           | of a variation on this theme:
           | 
           | Browsing BoingBoing in the 2010s, the maker-themed posts that
           | gained traction were projects that were essentially
           | structured as: An over complicated _______ but it's actually
           | a simple ________. For example, 'a 3d printed diy wrist
           | mounted display that actually only shows yesterdays' tweets".
           | 
           | In some ways today's pattern of projects being either very
           | complicated or very simple is a distillation/separation of
           | the earlier pattern.
        
           | Closi wrote:
           | I think we also enjoy playing with other peoples fun passion
           | projects.
           | 
           | It's different playing with something that someone built
           | because they wanted to build it and it was fun, rather than
           | them having some sense of commercial gain. See: indie games.
        
           | bla3 wrote:
           | It's also true when learning languages. If you speak a
           | language a tiny bit, locals act politely impressed. If you
           | speak it kind of good but aren't a native speaker, at least
           | in some countries that lands much worse than speaking the
           | language badly.
        
             | bryanrasmussen wrote:
             | if you speak the language like crap and they've never seen
             | you before they think aww, this tourist really tries. When
             | you speak kind of good they know you live there damn it!
        
               | pessimizer wrote:
               | I used to always hear this about black Americans in
               | France. You're unbelievably popular and everybody thinks
               | you're charming and cool until your French gets too good.
               | Then you start being mistaken for an African immigrant
               | and go from being cute to getting spit on by strangers.
               | 
               | Actual advice from black people to other black people
               | _not_ to work on your accent.
        
         | bmalicoat wrote:
         | I've noticed this too. It's mentioned in other comments below,
         | but I definitely think it's easier to see the human behind
         | something if it looks like a hobby project. I'm not sure what
         | camp my games fall into, but I've had limited traction on HN,
         | even though I'm just a lone human trying to hack it at full-
         | time indie game dev.
         | 
         | Ironically I just launched a new word game today so we'll see
         | if it makes the front page!
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35184884
        
         | gowld wrote:
         | Same reason why there are so few mid-budget movies in
         | Hollywood, and why medium size business either become giants or
         | die.
         | 
         | Cheap stuff is easy to churn out -> low chance of success, x
         | many shots
         | 
         | Expensive stuff costs a lot to be the best, and gets big
         | payoff.
         | 
         | Middle-tier stuff costs too much for its benefits.
        
         | dandellion wrote:
         | I think it's to be expected that the kind of projects you
         | mention are rare. Consider that even if 80% of the people
         | posting worked on games that take a couple of years to develop,
         | and 20% worked on games that take one month, you'd still have a
         | ratio of 6 short games posted for every single two-year project
         | launched.
        
         | Tade0 wrote:
         | After spending a year on-and-off making a game I realized that
         | I don't really have a compelling story to tell and my artist
         | friend is too busy to help me with the visual side.
         | 
         | Also, the real underlying reason why I started was the
         | technical itch I wanted to scratch - it's been done so many
         | times by so many people that I don't think it would be
         | particularly interesting at this point.
         | 
         | I suppose there are more people like me.
        
           | KineticLensman wrote:
           | FWIW: So I started some hobbyist game dev using Unity and
           | realised that the full process of making a game has
           | dependencies on a mass of lower-level skills including
           | lighting virtual environments. As a hobbyist photographer I
           | could see some useful analogies from lighting studios and
           | other scenes
           | 
           | So I pivoted, and eventually made money, not from selling a
           | game, but from developing tutorials about digital lighting. I
           | was also able to contribute to a project at work that was
           | making a product based on a commercial games engine, not by
           | actually coding it, but by helping to better estimate the
           | costs of the asset generation required.
           | 
           | Coding Unity object scripts in C# also got me back into
           | programming, and I went on to successfully build a self-
           | hosting lisp interpreter following the Make a Lisp guidelines
           | [0].
           | 
           | [0]
           | https://github.com/kanaka/mal/blob/master/process/guide.md
        
             | gbudee wrote:
             | Could you link me to your tutorial? I'd like to improve the
             | lighting in my game and I'm quite excited to have seen your
             | comment!
        
         | ch33zer wrote:
         | Maybe I can describe how I work and why sharing anything more
         | than protoypes is hard, and then people can comment if this
         | rings true to them.
         | 
         | Like many people here I have a full time job writing software.
         | Most of the time I get home and don't really want to sit at a
         | computer for a bunch more hours working on a side project. But
         | a few times a year I get super inspired or have an acute need
         | and will spend my spare time working on a game, or a small
         | project or something like that. Inevitably I lose interest
         | after reaching the 'alpha' phase of the project (or sometimes
         | even failing to get there). At that point I sometimes want to
         | share the project with others, but I won't usually continue
         | working on it.
         | 
         | I think this may partially explain your experience.
        
         | MrLeap wrote:
         | I've got a project like that (few years working on it, it's
         | very unique, there's a demo), I talk about it in the comments
         | from time to time but haven't done a dedicated writeup or
         | anything.
         | 
         | I don't think I've ever seen a youtube video get to the front
         | page of HN, and that seems the easiest way for me to broadly
         | communicate all that I've put into it. Some part of me thinks a
         | medium post about it or whatever just wouldn't make sense. I
         | want to present what you're hungry for, haha.
        
           | lukas099 wrote:
           | You might have a better shot if you write a blog post that
           | includes video elements.
        
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