[HN Gopher] Shoshikantetsu
___________________________________________________________________
Shoshikantetsu
Author : ashleynewman
Score : 385 points
Date : 2023-03-16 03:03 UTC (19 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (asnewman.github.io)
(TXT) w3m dump (asnewman.github.io)
| tempestn wrote:
| I really like this. At some point fairly early in my life,
| teenage years I think, I decided that it is a fact that anything
| I commit to myself that I'll do, I will indeed do. I don't recall
| exactly when or how it happened, but I do know it's something
| consciously decided was the case.
|
| As far as I could tell at the time, it had been true for any
| "serious" commitments thus far, and it's kind of a comforting
| feeling that if something is in your control, and you decide to
| do it, it will happen. Having made that affirmation, it because
| somewhat self-reinforcing, because even when something got hard,
| I didn't want to break the streak, and thereby... I guess, no
| longer be able to rely on myself in the same way. I think it's
| meant both that I'm somewhat careful about what I truly commit to
| myself to do, but also that I always have extra motivation when I
| do. (And of course, some degree of after-the-fact rationalization
| helps too; I'm sure I've consciously let myself off the hook on
| occasion when the situation changes.)
|
| Anyway, that's a lot of rambling to basically say I think I've
| been practicing shoshikantetsu most of my life without knowing
| the term.
| chrbr wrote:
| Related term I came across the other day: internal locus of
| control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_of_control
| jaqalopes wrote:
| Having a high say-do ratio has always been important to me
|
| I've never encountered this idea, but as soon I read it I
| suddenly see it everywhere. My roommate who tells me he'll clean
| the kitchen then doesn't; my cousin who says he'll come to dinner
| then cancels. My best friend who says she'll start going to the
| gym and never does. My world is awash in people who say the most
| wonderful things and then don't do any of them; it feels like a
| distinctly modern phenomenon. I find it hard not to resent people
| for this, but I try, because not everything is equally important,
| and not everyone can be as determined as we might like. As this
| article illustrates, we are ultimately only in control of our own
| actions.
| stavros wrote:
| Why would you want a _high_ say /do ratio? Did he mean "low"? I
| don't understand why you'd want to say a lot of things and do
| only a few.
| pmontra wrote:
| Neither high nor low. I think that the author wants to have
| that ratio close to 1 and got mistaken because of the bias
| that high is better than low.
|
| Or an high ratio of done / !done.
| spoiler wrote:
| > My best friend who says she'll start going to the gym and
| never does.
|
| My friend always calls me out on this, and now I'm being
| haunted by you too, a person form the internet!
|
| But on a more serious note, I think often times people believe
| when they say they want to do something, but end up not doing
| it for various reasons. Sometimes it's lack of self-love, other
| times it's low energy levels or lapses in time management.
| Sometimes people do try, but get discouraged and shy away.
|
| I think the person on the other side ia often just as
| frustrated by themselves--if not even more, but they can't tell
| what and where it went wrong, which is equally frustrating in
| itself.
|
| I am the best person at frustrating myself and fucking my days
| up. _Sigh_ I never learn.
| wirthjason wrote:
| People say things all the time that they never intend to do.
|
| To go with the theme I'll add another common Japanese concept:
| tatemae / honne. In short, what you say vs what you really
| do/feel. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae
|
| I heard it best explained by an old Japanese teacher. Say you
| bump into an old high school friend on the street. You have a
| quick chat and at the end he says "we should get together some
| time". He doesn't really mean he wants to get together. That's
| tatemae.
|
| If he says "we should get together some time, how's next
| Tuesday at 7?" That's honne.
| _glass wrote:
| I hated this when I was younger. But I've learned to do it,
| too. To please people. I don't really want, but I also don't
| want to have the discussion, of why I don't want. Now I try to
| not do this anymore and speak the truth, but I understand the
| meaning of why someone does this.
| DFHippie wrote:
| There are many things I want to have done but which I don't
| want to do. I think the key to improving your say-do ratio is
| to figure out how to do the thing such that it's something you
| want to do, not something you want to have done. For me, many
| tasks can be converted into something enjoyable by adding
| earbuds and a podcast.
| nordsieck wrote:
| > it feels like a distinctly modern phenomenon
|
| Probably not a modern phenomenon. Except in so far as it's a
| lot easier to "hear" people say things much more easily now.
| jollyllama wrote:
| "Confucius said: 'The ancients were hesitant to speak,
| fearing that their actions would not do justice to their
| words.'"
| lubesGordi wrote:
| I bet you live in California.
| jaqalopes wrote:
| Close. Similar milieu, different American coast.
| xhrpost wrote:
| I think this is mostly the culture of "should". In our highly
| individualized society that glorifies self ambition, the list
| of things we "should" do are endless. However, when we say "I
| should go to the gym", we're not saying "I value my personal
| health and wellbeing and am convinced the gym is a path to
| that", but rather, "Society/friends/family/work might value me
| a little more if I do this" or "society may value me less if I
| don't do this". Not too much different from when we buy
| vegetables at the grocery store because we believe we "should"
| eat them, only to see them rot away in our refrigerator until
| we have to throw them out. The saying part is the easy first
| step, but our values are not in-line to follow through. In the
| end, "should" is just a mild-ish form of shame and shame is
| often a terrible motivator for long-term change.
| shantnutiwari wrote:
| yeah a lot of the self help industry is built on shaming and
| shoulds. We "should" excercise for 60 minutes a day, meditate
| for 30-60 minutes, go for a walk after meals, work on career,
| our brand, our hobbies, our business, read a book for 30
| minutes.
|
| Like Oliver Burkemann said, most of these producutivity
| articles are written by and for 20 year old kids with no
| family, no responsibility; and the rest of us are shamed if
| we dont meet these impossible standards.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| Don't resent people for this. I used to as well. But these
| people only try to become better versions of themselves. And
| for various reasons fail. It's still noble of them to keep
| trying.
| mchaver wrote:
| I think this is a common cultural practice in many places in
| the US. It is nice to say nice things that are not necessarily
| true or make friendly invitations that are not firm
| invitations. In other cultures it is better to say true things
| and/or limit pleasantries that are not true.
| hyperjeff wrote:
| A high say-do ratio would be bad. A high do-say works.
| nerpderp82 wrote:
| I tried this for awhile (3-4 months) and it was extremely
| effective. Two rules.
|
| 1) I only talked about what I did
|
| 2) I only talked about things that occurred in the last <pick
| a time horizon>
|
| It biases you for action.
| mromanuk wrote:
| /Many times motivation isn't there, but that shouldn't be an
| excuse for not doing it./
| dejawu wrote:
| A similar idea that resonated with me is CGP Grey's suggestion to
| replace resolutions with themes:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVGuFdX5guE
|
| Rather than set a lofty goal you're more likely to give up on
| (leaving you having accomplished nothing), simply look for ways
| in which you can do/be better than you were before.
| mashygpig wrote:
| Amusing to see this in the thread as, inspired by CGP Grey, my
| theme for the year is "be intentional" so this post
| particularly stood out to me.
| Orthanc wrote:
| And now I'm here reading your comment, small world. Good luck
| with your theme!
| aledalgrande wrote:
| Putting in "some" effort on those hard days, is what
| creates/keeps a habit.
| mcqueenjordan wrote:
| Very nice, I also like the other yojijukugo displayed at the
| bottom, especially jyuunintoiro. I enjoy (what I perceive as) the
| subtle wordplay of having two different readings of the same
| character (ten) in the word, hinting at the sort of "more than
| one way to skin a cat" theme of the word.
|
| Literally, the characters are "ten people ten colors", but the
| two "tens" are read differently: "jyuu" and "to" respectively,
| because the same character can have multiple readings.
|
| Yojijukugo are really fun, I've written about them a bit here if
| anyone wants more context: https://jm.dev/yojijukugo
| glandium wrote:
| Some that I like:
|
| Yi Shi Er Niao (issekinichou ; literally: one stone, two birds
| ; I'll let you guess the meaning (yes, it's very close to an
| expression in English))
|
| Zi Ye Zi De (jigoujitoku ; reap what you sow)
|
| Zi Zuo Zi Yan (jisakujien ; self-made self-staged ; for
| example, used for the act of creating a staged situation and
| then acting as if it were genuine)
|
| Zi Wen Zi Da (jimonjitou ; answering one's own question)
|
| Zi Bao Zi Qi (jiboujiki ; self-abandonment)
|
| Zi Hua Zi Zan (jigajisan ; singing one's own praises)
|
| Zi Gei Zi Zu (jikyuujisoku ; self-sufficiency)
|
| Zi You Zi Zai (jiyuujizai ; free/unrestricted)
|
| (Yeah, I have a thing for the Zi OZi O ones)
| whym wrote:
| > Zi Zuo Zi Yan (jisakujien ; self-made self-staged ; for
| example, used for the act of creating a staged situation and
| then acting as if it were genuine)
|
| The original meaning was a screenwriter-actor performing the
| script they wrote, which is a perfectly fine thing to do. It
| can mean 'sockpuppeting', too, and that other use might be
| more common nowadays, though.
| fenomas wrote:
| It breaks the pattern but you might also like:
|
| Zi Yan ripu (jien-ripu)
|
| Literally it's "reply" together with a term for an actor
| performing a work that they also wrote. And together the
| phrase is net slang for sock-puppeting.
| rippercushions wrote:
| In some sense yojijukugo are the original memes, in that they
| can be riffed off for humorous purposes. For example, the
| Japanese idiom for "the strong devour the weak" is Ruo Rou
| Qiang Shi _jakuniku kyuushoku_ (the meat of the weak is the
| food of the strong), but you can instead say Shao Rou Ding Shi
| _yakuniku teishoku_ (lit. grilled meat set meal) for laughs,
| and rakugo comedian Jakusaburo Katsura released an album called
| Que Rou Gong Shi _jakuniku kyuushoku_ (same reading, but
| meaning "let's eat sparrow meat together" and referring to his
| own name).
| nethdeco wrote:
| Just had Shao Rou Ding Shi for lunch.
| labster wrote:
| Japanese is a wonderful language for puns. Not only do they
| have homophone puns (so many homophones) and rhyming puns,
| but also visual puns like _Katamari Damacy_ Kuai Hun .
| rjh29 wrote:
| I like words where one kanji is changed to make the meaning
| opposite (without changing the pronounciation)
|
| Ming Yan (great acting performance) -> Mi Yan (baffling
| performance)
|
| Guo Dao (highway) -> Ku Dao (road in terrible condition)
|
| There are also some horrible ones like Du Nu (Du Nu ) and
| Hai Ren (Wai Ren )
|
| Also Xiu Guan Ri (museum holiday day) -> Xiu Gan Ri
| ("give your liver a rest day" - i.e. sober day)
| glandium wrote:
| It's not actually a pun (at least, AFAIK), but
| interestingly, Gang Men (anus) is an homophone of Hou
| Men (back gate).
| glandium wrote:
| Kind of in the theme of Kuai Hun , there's a yojijukugo
| with 4 Gui : Chi Mei Wang Liang (chimimouriyou,
| chimimouryou, evil spirits of rivers and mountains)
| kinbiko wrote:
| Qiang and Gong are read _kyou_ , not _kyuu_
| nullsense wrote:
| I always joke with my wife that my favorite yojijukugo are
| Wen Ti Jie Jue and An Quan Di Yi which are literally just
| "problem solving" and "safety first" haha.
|
| My favorite actual yojijukugo is Dian Di Chuan Shi which
| water dripping on a stone in the same spot slowly wears it
| away, which just means if you keep doing what you're doing
| you will eventually make some noticeable progress in the long
| run.
| artemavv wrote:
| Russian language has an idiom similar to Dian Di Chuan Shi
| - "kaplia kamen' tochit", literally "a drip grinds a
| stone", i.e. small but persistent effort eventually
| overpowers even the most hardy obstacles
| cbertoldi wrote:
| I'd bet that many languages have this idiom. I know it in
| Latin, Italian and German: - gutta cavat lapidem - la
| goccia scava la pietra - steter Tropfen hohlt den Stein
| noduerme wrote:
| > I'm currently experimenting with doing 30 minutes of enjoyable,
| productive activities once a day for 7 days
|
| Carrying out your original intent is sometimes not possible. It's
| called whisky dick. But who knows; you might end up having a good
| conversation instead of your planned run. Turn off whatever app
| you use to manage yourself. Fuck up sometimes. Refusing to go on
| a run is just as good as going on one, usually better.
| zoogeny wrote:
| > What I ended up landing on was focusing on making the "original
| intent" small enough that I had no excuses to not complete them.
|
| This is something I am aiming for myself. It is very common for
| me to feel motivated and to make big plans to change my life.
| Then I fail to adhere to my plans and it creates anxiety and
| depression.
|
| I recently started rising at dawn every single day. When I
| decided to make the change I limited myself to only that change.
| Despite wanting to change 100+ things about my life I focused
| just on this one idea - to set an alarm for sunrise and to get
| straight out of bed.
|
| It is such an easy premise that I really have no excuse to fail
| at it.
|
| My current idea is that focusing on a single virtue is a key to a
| productive life. No more "7 highly effective habits" or "12
| rules" or whatever. Just one thing: get up at sunrise. Easy to
| remember, easy to verify compliance, difficult to achieve.
| rippercushions wrote:
| Many (but not all) Japanese four-character idioms ( _yojijukugo_
| ) are actually Chinese imports, and they're IMHO far more
| prevalent in that language.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengyu
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yojijukugo
| justusw wrote:
| It makes for a fun bridging the gap cultural experience when
| talking to Chinese people about the Chinese idioms you learn in
| Japanese class. Even the pronunciation is so similar (I mean,
| of course it is, duh).
|
| My favorite one is Wu Yue Tong Zhou or Wu Yue Tong Zhou (Wu
| Yue tong zhou) meaning people of different backgrounds finding
| themselves having to work together.
|
| https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E5%90%B4%E8%B6%8A%E5%90%8C%E8%88%...
|
| https://jisho.org/word/%E5%91%89%E8%B6%8A%E5%90%8C%E8%88%9F
|
| If only the two countries were as close diplomatically as they
| are in their shared culture.
| wenyuanyu wrote:
| It's indeed a regrettable circumstance that the diplomatic
| ties between the two countries don't reflect their cultural
| similarities. My parents, who are Chinese and in their 60s,
| managed to travel around Japan without knowing Japanese or
| English. They successfully took trains, hailed taxis, and
| communicated with locals using just a pen and paper,
| ultimately enjoying their trip.
| mgdlbp wrote:
| And Russian and Ukraine, presently superlatively so.
| ThinkingGuy wrote:
| An excellent book on yojijukugo is "Kanji Idoims." from the
| "Power Japanese" series:
|
| https://openlibrary.org/works/OL27733147W/Kanji_idioms?editi...
| KTallguy wrote:
| My favorite yojijukugo is from Chinese, despite the fact that I
| barely speak it.
|
| Zi Qiang Bu Xi , or "Pushing forward to better yourself without
| ceasing," I think? Maybe there's a better way to put it?
|
| Another poster mentioned Dian Di Chuan Shi which is my second
| favorite. It puts things in perspective quite well.
| yqinyn wrote:
| Be careful when you use "Zi Qiang Bu Xi " though. I have never
| seen any native speaker who is also a sane person use it in
| daily life without sounding sarcastic. This word does mean what
| you say, but it probably one of the overused, insincere, and
| meaningless words in government speeches. It's like people roll
| their eyes when tech giants says "make the world a better
| place" for the past 30 years. But instead of 30 years, this
| came from <<Yi Jing >> ,which was roughly from 5,000 year ago,
| and has been constantly used in a similar fashion since then.
| So imagine how a Chinese speaker will think of it.
| kevinmorio wrote:
| I've recently developed a new habit of celebrating my daily
| accomplishments as wins, no matter how small they may be. This
| simple practice has had a remarkably positive impact on my
| mindset. Last week, I wrote down the following:
|
| > When it came to today's running session, I felt already
| exhausted and unmotivated, my mind constantly telling me that I
| was not feeling well and nagging me to skip the run. But I bit
| the bullet and did it. And what's the result? This was the best
| run I've had in months cutting my personal best by more than 3
| minutes! Lesson learned: Our mind is pretty bad at assessing our
| body's capabilities. Don't let your mind limit your
| possibilities!
|
| Similar to OP's experiment of doing 30-minute productive sessions
| for 7 days, I create weekly SMART goals (Specific, Measurable,
| Achievable, Relevant, Time-bound). For example
|
| - Goal: Get better at cooking => Action: Try out two new recipes
| on Tuesday and Thursday.
|
| - Goal: Add comment section to blog => Action: Spend 30 minutes
| after lunch from Wednesday - Friday
|
| By expressing my goals in this way, I keep myself accountable and
| on track. I also feel more motivated and focused on achieving
| them.
| segmondy wrote:
| If you enjoy this, buy the book "The Japanese Have a Word For It"
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Have-Word-Complete-Thought/d...
| dbtc wrote:
| I like it a lot.
|
| Do these characters make sense as a Chinese phrase as well?
|
| Chu zhi guan che ?
| wenyuanyu wrote:
| Yes, it makes sense, but I have not seen this idiom used in
| China. In China, a widely used idiom of similar meaning is Jian
| Chi Chu Xin (jian chi chu xin)
| lifthrasiir wrote:
| It seems that Shi Zhi Bu Yu [1] is a more close analogue in
| that this exact four-letter form is always used. The Korean
| version is substantially different too, it's Chu Zhi Yi Guan
| (cojiilgwan _Chojiilgwan_ ).
|
| [1] https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E7%9F%A2%E5%BF%97%E4%B8%8D%
| E6%...
| wenyuanyu wrote:
| As a Chinese person, I perceive "Chu Zhi " as having a
| connotation of "original" or "initial" intentions, whereas
| "Shi Zhi " simply implies determined wishes or promises
| without emphasizing the "initial" aspect. While I'm not an
| expert in Japanese, my understanding is based on the
| Chinese perspective, and the actual meaning in Japanese
| might differ. It's intriguing to see how these nuances can
| vary across languages and cultures.
| lifthrasiir wrote:
| I personally analyze Chu Zhi Yi Guan as simply being
| consistent (Yi Guan ) from the beginning (Chu Zhi ), not
| necessarily retaining the original subject (only
| implied). I believe this is the most frequent Korean
| interpretation because Chu Zhi coji is not a common
| Korean word (its synonym Chu Xin cosim _is_ common) and
| Chu Zhi Yi Guan is probably the only phrase you can find
| this word.
| whoevercares wrote:
| While making perfect sense, it just feels slightly weird due to
| the order and IMHO less beautiful to its equivalent. In Chinese
| it's Bu Yu "unshakable" instead of Guan Che (insist)
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| I write passion project software, and I decided a while ago that
| I would do at least one commit per day, even if it is just
| updating todo.txt or writing a one-line comment. It has served me
| well.
|
| I can't say that I've had a perfect streak, but I've had streaks
| spanning weeks and months long when I was productive on this
| project.
| frankus wrote:
| I think this is great advice in the short term. In the longer
| term it's worth evaluating whether a commitment you made
| only/mostly to yourself is still serving you, or whether the
| "you" that came up with the commitment was missing some bit of
| information that you have now.
|
| Like, if the commitment is serving your past self rather than
| your future self, give it up. You don't owe your past self
| anything.
|
| Hank Green did a really good talk on this a few years ago:
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lPtopvsxmZY
| justinmayer wrote:
| Carrying out the original intent (going on the run), even in a
| lesser form than the ideal (going slower than usual), helps to
| reinforce the habit. Ultimately, this is about mastering the art
| of showing up.
|
| This concept is closely related to the "Two-Minute Rule" proposed
| by James Clear, of _Atomic Habits_ fame. Showing up consistently,
| even in small ways, helps build momentum and leads to significant
| accomplishments over time.
|
| https://jamesclear.com/how-to-stop-procrastinating
| tqwhite wrote:
| I call the strategy 'lowering the bar'. As an old, I now set all
| my goals to be so small that I have almost achieved them merely
| by waking each morning.
|
| I like to say that I have lowered my bar so much that I can roll
| over it while laying on the floor. I am very successful in
| accomplishing my 'original intent'. Consequently, my life is
| nearly perfect.
| slmjkdbtl wrote:
| There are thousands of 4 letter idioms in Chinese and I believe
| in Japanese too, a very common game in China is a group of people
| each say a 4 letter idiom and next person say another that starts
| with the last letter of the last one said.
| whoevercares wrote:
| In Chinese sense, IMO its chengyu of similar meaning are very
| beautiful -Shi Zhi Bu Yu
| https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%9F%A2%E5%BF%97%E4%B8%8D...
|
| It's common to use this to express love as well - love is
| unshakable
| wenyuanyu wrote:
| This is indeed a commonly used chengyu with similar meaning.
| But I perceive "Chu Zhi " as having a connotation of "original"
| or "initial" intentions, whereas "Shi Zhi " simply implies
| determined wishes or promises without emphasizing the "initial"
| aspect. While I'm not an expert in Japanese, my understanding
| is based on the Chinese perspective, and the actual meaning of
| "Chu Zhi " in Japanese might differ.
| whoevercares wrote:
| Yeah it's subtle - a better one is "Shi Zhong Bu Yu " which
| the "intention"(Zhi )is dropped but implied
| wenyuanyu wrote:
| This is my first time encounter with this particular 4-character
| idiom. As a Chinese person, I'm amazed by my ability to
| comprehend both the writing and the underlying meaning
| effortlessly. In China, a similar sentiment is more commonly
| expressed as Jian Chi Chu Xin (jian chi chu xin).
|
| Interestingly, this phrase has gained significance (a buzz world
| in politics) since Xi came to power a decade ago, that party
| members should remain steadfast in upholding the original mission
| of the Communist Party...
| thrdbndndn wrote:
| The buzz word version of it is Bu Wang Chu Xin
| krackers wrote:
| Beyond idiomatic yojijukugo (or perhaps because of it?), 4 mora
| abbreviations seems to be really common in Japanese. E.g.
| "debadora" for "device driver" [1]
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23798995
| GolDDranks wrote:
| They are indeed. I participated in phonology seminar in Tokyo U
| years back, and it was very interesting. According to the prof,
| Japanese phonology definitely has a tendency to use "moraic
| foots", that is, units of two mora, as a preferred unit of
| morphophonologic processes, which then maps to abbreviations of
| two-word phrases where each of the words get their own foot:
| deba-dora.
|
| I'd say that yojijukugo are not necessarily directly related,
| as the readings of the kanji can be one or two mora, so there's
| some variability in the structure of the readings of
| yojijukugo.
| GolDDranks wrote:
| That being said, people often say that because of moras and
| foots, syllables have no place in Japanese phonology, but
| that's not true. Japanese pitch accent patterns (of Tokyo
| Japanese) depend on the syllabic structure.
| throwaway290 wrote:
| Similarly in Chinese languages there are many such 4-character
| stable phrases. Might not be a coincidence.
| glandium wrote:
| Just to make it clear, this doesn't only apply to imported
| words (although it's probably where it's more common). It works
| for purely Japanese words too. For example: naruhaya (naruhaya)
| is a 4 mora abbreviation of narubekuZao ku (narubeku hayaku).
| Another one: akeome (akeome) is an abbreviation of Ming
| kemashiteomedetougozaimasu (akemashite omedetougozaimasu)
| the_arun wrote:
| Does Shoshikantetsu mean - Integrity without Compromise?
| wenyuanyu wrote:
| I feel it is more like "stick to your initial intention"
| dools wrote:
| I always say this to my kids when they don't feel like doing some
| habit: just half arse it.
|
| Another phrase I use is: if something is worth doing, it's worth
| doing poorly.
|
| I run 12km every day, but some days I don't get out until the
| afternoon, like today, and it was 30 degrees C and I could only
| run 8kms and when I got to the bottom of the hill at the 8km mark
| I couldn't run up it and just walked the remaining 4km home.
|
| Imagine if I didn't even go on the run because I was worried I
| wouldn't be able to make it the whole way.
| vlod wrote:
| I have a favourite saying "Half arse is better than no arse".
| discordance wrote:
| Seems logical wanting to avoid running on a hot day, whether
| you were unconsciously or consciously objecting to it.
| gred wrote:
| > if something is worth doing, it's worth doing poorly
|
| I also keep coming back to this phrase. I believe this is the
| source (G.K. Chesterton, What's Wrong with the World):
| https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1717/1717-h/1717-h.htm#link2...
| bee_rider wrote:
| Half-assing is a fun one to spin around.
|
| "We really need to whole-ass this one."
| gabagool wrote:
| > Having a high say-do ratio has always been important to me
|
| You probably mean a "high do-say ratio"? That is, to complete as
| many things as you set out to do.
|
| Great story though, it reminds me a bit of how the German
| language has individual words to describe specific intents and
| feelings. Of course the German equivalents are far more verbose!
| zwirbl wrote:
| It's "gesagt-getan" in German so it's a combination of two
| words in the order mentioned in TFA
| riffraff wrote:
| Doesn't every language have words for feelings?
|
| I mean, sure there's variations (e.g. not all languages have
| "saudade" or "schadenfreude") but it seems a pretty basic group
| of words.
| Kokouane wrote:
| I think the original context could be correct: if they say they
| will do something, they do it.
| FPGAhacker wrote:
| I know I'm being pedantic, but that would be a low ratio.
|
| But I understand the point being made and my pedantry just a
| peculiarity of English meaning having a strong word order
| dependence than many other languages.
| rdiddly wrote:
| Just to throw another variable in there, the clause about
| the ratio is separated from the one about completing
| things, by the conjunction "but," indicating opposition. So
| it can be read as something like "I've always prioritized
| communication" (high say-do ratio, as written) "...BUT, I
| wanted to" (make a change and) "strategize seeing things
| through." Probably not what was meant, but plausible and
| one of the possibilities I considered when I noticed the
| thing you noticed!
| stefncb wrote:
| That's actually interesting, because if they'd said low
| ratio, it would probably have confused people. I think it's
| math having the strong order dependence; when people say a
| high a to b ratio, they likely mean a 'good' ratio
| contextually instead of mathematically high.
| myrloc wrote:
| This makes me wonder, does Japanese have an equivalent to the
| Chinese concept of a chengyu?
| justusw wrote:
| So many are taken over verbatim from Chinese. There are some
| very comprehensive Yojijukugo (literally just meaning former
| character compound word) collections on the net like
|
| https://yoji-jukugo.com/
|
| Sometimes you will have to map between simplified Chinese
| characters and modern Japanese characters. Easy enough though,
| since they still look very similar.
| GolDDranks wrote:
| Japanese has Shou Yu jukugo, which is similar (if I understand
| the concept of a chengyu correctly): a set phrase of Chinese
| characters. The famous case are the 4 character set phrases, Si
| Zi Shou Yu yojijukugo, which are mentioned in the article, but
| there are other kinds too.
|
| Besides that, there is Guan Yong Ju kanyouku, which means just
| an idiom in general, and isn't restricted to kanji expressions.
| And Jue mariWen Ju kimarimonku, which means something like a
| "cliche phrase".
| antiterra wrote:
| Tangential, but the one that sticks in my mind is Qi Zhuan Ba Qi
| , shichitenhakki, which is basically 'fall seven times, get up
| eight.'
| deafpolygon wrote:
| Nothing like an adage or idiom in a foreign language to make you
| ponder the meaning of life!
| jdthedisciple wrote:
| Here is another one, though admittedly I don't know its _direct_
| translation.
|
| Shisakanku
|
| It means something like "point and do" (probably completely wrong
| but should capture the essence) and it's a technique to help
| avoid mistakes which I found actually works.
|
| Needless to say, I was also weirdly fascinated with it the first
| time I heard of it.
|
| You can see it in action here:
|
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Av_Kkh3mp4E
| an_ko wrote:
| Shisa kanko (Zhi Chai Huan Hu ) translates directly as "finger
| pointing verbal check".
|
| Dictionary entry:
| https://jisho.org/word/%E6%8C%87%E5%B7%AE%E5%96%9A%E5%91%BC
| creakingstairs wrote:
| Sharing some Korean Yojijukugos (originating from China)
|
| wirogjima(Wei Lu Zhi Ma ) wii rok ji ma
|
| To point at a deer and call it a horse. Used for suck ups who
| says agrees to things that are clearly not right.
|
| eubcammasog(Qi Zhan Ma Su ) ub cham ma sok
|
| To behead Ma Su (name) while crying. In the Romance of Three
| Kingdoms, Zhuge Liang had to behead his favourite general Ma Su
| as he wept because Ma Su ignored the given command resulting in
| losing the war. This is used when you have to be fair for the
| greater good.
|
| There are also fake yojijukugos which were created on online
| forums. These are not based on Chinese characters but made by
| taking letters from Korean phrases. But they caught on because
| they kinda sound like real yojijikugos :D
|
| naeronambul nae ro nam bul
|
| Romance for me, but adultery for you. Used for people who are
| lenient to themselves but strict to others.
|
| jagangduceon ja gang doo cheon
|
| Fight of two strong-sprited geniuses. Used when two strong
| characters butt head with each other.
| umanwizard wrote:
| > To point at a deer and call it a horse.
|
| When indigenous Mexicans first met Spaniards, they described
| their horses (which are not native to the New World, so they
| had never seen before) as "a sort of giant deer".
|
| It's totally off-topic here but I always thought that was
| interesting.
| dmix wrote:
| There were actually horses in the new world, it's just that
| the natives hunted them all to extinction well before the
| Europeans arrived. Likewise with most other "mega fuana" in
| North America. There's also theories that climate changes
| played a role in addition to over exploitation.
| umanwizard wrote:
| True, but to be clear, they had gone extinct thousands of
| years before the Spanish brought them back, so the natives
| in the early 16th century had no way of knowing about them.
| NalNezumi wrote:
| >wirogjima(Wei Lu Zhi Ma ) wii rok ji ma To point at a deer and
| call it a horse. Used for suck ups who says agrees to things
| that are clearly not right.
|
| Adding a little bit of context to this: This seems to be the
| same origin as the Japanese word baka: Ma Lu which means
| stupid and is the combination of the word Horse(Ma ) and deer
| (Lu ). It has a quite funny background story[1] from ancient
| China:
|
| >Zhao Gao was contemplating treason but was afraid the other
| officials would not heed his commands, so he decided to test
| them first. He brought a deer and presented it to the Second
| Emperor but called it a horse. The Second Emperor laughed and
| said, "Is the chancellor perhaps mistaken, calling a deer a
| horse?" Then the emperor questioned those around him. Some
| remained silent, while some, hoping to ingratiate themselves
| with Zhao Gao, said it was a horse, and others said it was a
| deer. Zhao Gao secretly arranged for all those who said it was
| a deer to be brought before the law. Thereafter the officials
| were all terrified of Zhao Gao.
|
| The English wiki is a bit kind to him, because in the original
| one it wasn't "put before the law" but killed/executed. So the
| "fool/stupid" person is not the one that called a deer a horse,
| but the ones that didn't
|
| [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baka_(Japanese_word)
| carapace wrote:
| "Well, that explains a lot." Cheers!
| lelandfe wrote:
| > To point at a deer and call it a horse. Used for suck ups who
| says agrees to things that are clearly not right.
|
| Love this. A good English equivalent is "the emperor's new
| clothes."
| bee_rider wrote:
| References to the emperor's new clothes seem to be focused on
| the moment when the lie everyone is going along with finally
| gets revealed, though. I think the English equivalent is more
| like "brown nosing."
| lelandfe wrote:
| Brown nosing need not involve lying - you can be obsequious
| without agreeing to an obvious falsehood.
| Dalewyn wrote:
| >Sharing some Korean Yojijukugos (originating from China)
|
| This is neither here nor there, but you have me in stitches for
| using Japanese to refer to Chinese sayings to describe Korean
| (sub)culture.
| creakingstairs wrote:
| Haha, I did think about using the Korean word instead but
| just decided to go with the flow. East Asian culture is so
| intertwined, it's a pity we all have such a love-hate
| relationship with each other.
| fenomas wrote:
| Here's another interesting one that gamers might recognize, JP-
| from-CN:
|
| > Long Tou She Wei (ryuutou dabi) "Dragon head, snake tail"
|
| Blizzard's Overwatch team decided that would make a cool family
| motto for a ninja clan, so it features prominently in the
| game's launch cinematic and some in-game areas. But they
| apparently never looked up the meaning, which is basically
| "starting strong but ending weak", or just "anticlimactic".
| smaddox wrote:
| > To behead Ma Su (name) while crying. [...]
|
| I wonder how much further ahead of western cultures, eastern
| asian cultures would have been if they didn't kill (or commit
| suicide) every time someone made a mistake.
| 1123581321 wrote:
| Ma Su is also relevant because Zhuge Liang was repeatedly
| warned that Ma Su had more head knowledge than ability so
| should not receive a major command. Zhuge Liang's emotions and
| admiration cost him not only the campaign, but a dear friend.
| dxbydt wrote:
| > wirogjima(Wei Lu Zhi Ma ) wii rok ji ma > To point at a deer
| and call it a horse.
|
| Very common South Indian proverb. Of course, our version goes -
|
| To point at a donkey and call it a horse.
|
| I guess because donkeys are way more common than deer in South
| India. I'm curious about the etymology. Did it really originate
| in China ? If so, how come its so commonly used in South India
| ? The Chinese monks Faxian[1] and Xuanzang[2] visited India
| during the 5th/7th AD...the proverb came along with them ?
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faxian [2]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuanzang
| rawgabbit wrote:
| The phrase comes from Sima Qian's "The Records of the Grand
| Historian" written in 94BCE. Zhao Gao was a eunuch and hid
| the first Emperor's death and schemed to have the rightful
| heir killed. Zhao installed a puppet and tested everyone's
| loyalty by declaring a stag a horse and dared anyone to
| question him.
|
| https://cesnur.net/wp-
| content/uploads/2022/07/tjoc_6_4_5_che...
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I have always been a "My Word Is My Bond" guy.
|
| If I say I'll do something; I follow through, come hell or high
| water.
|
| A lot of folks know this about me, and try to get me to commit to
| stuff. I'll only commit to the stuff that I plan to complete.
|
| It's interesting how hostile people get, when I mention how
| important it is to _complete_ stuff. I had a trainer once say _"
| It's really important to know what 'Done' looks like."_
| undershirt wrote:
| > Yi Qi Yi Hui (ichigoichie) - "Treasure every encounter, for it
| will never recur."
|
| Interesting that science by design is the inversion of this-- to
| only show concern with the parts of every encounter which must
| always recur.
| nerpderp82 wrote:
| If you like this, you might like Nassim Taleb's thoughts on "Skin
| in the Game", a book by the same name and plenty of discussions
| and interviews on youtube.
| kronks wrote:
| [dead]
| nabla9 wrote:
| Nei Bian Qing (Common Saying in Japanese makes it sound deeper)
| barrenko wrote:
| The other posts on the blog are great as well. I've set out to
| make some tiny projects myself this year, and it's going better
| than I've imagined.
|
| There are no big homeruns, but I feel like a different kind of
| person.
|
| To paraphrase "Build what you can (and love), until you love to
| build."
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