[HN Gopher] The Door Close Button
___________________________________________________________________
The Door Close Button
Author : ecliptik
Score : 225 points
Date : 2023-03-14 14:46 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (computer.rip)
(TXT) w3m dump (computer.rip)
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| A crosswalk button that does nothing is a placebo even if that
| wasn't the original intent.
|
| The elevator button is more complicated but I think the typical
| uselessness combined with misleading label is enough to qualify.
| The reason it exists isn't placebo, but the way it's set up makes
| it a placebo, even if it's via negligence.
| D13Fd wrote:
| The term "placebo" implies intent. So saying something is "a
| placebo even if that wasn't the original intent" is like saying
| something "is red even if it isn't that color."
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| It wasn't originally a color, but it rusted.
|
| People are being tricked by the presentation, and it's being
| left that way out of lack of caring.
|
| Negligence is a form of intent. Especially it's intent when
| new elevators are getting the same treatment.
| jaqalopes wrote:
| I think if you've never left the USA you would obviously think
| that there was some sort of conspiracy to install fake elevator
| door close buttons, since there is absolutely no feedback in the
| system that would help an uninformed layperson realize that the
| door IS closing but on a several second delay. When I lived in
| China, EVERY elevator door close button worked, and worked
| instantly. This led to exactly the behavior you would expect, of
| selfish people getting in elevators and immediately shutting them
| to hurry on towards their destination. This is not possible in
| America, where the ADA requires the 3-second minimum delay
| explained in this article so that e.g. people in wheelchairs have
| time to get into the lift. So it's not the case that our American
| elevator door close buttons are placebos, but they ARE doing a
| terrible job of informing users what they are doing and why.
| user3939382 wrote:
| They should have a UI where the backlight color fill slides in
| from left to right as you hold it.
| taldo wrote:
| And if you repeatedly press it, it fills up faster and
| changes color?
| DeathArrow wrote:
| Like many things in life, some door close buttons work, some not.
| guhcampos wrote:
| This is why I read Hackernews. TIL Radiolab trolled me.
| MDWolinski wrote:
| Personally, don't really care or use the door close button.
| However, would so much love it if I press a floor by accident,
| the second press deselects it.
| felideon wrote:
| Have never tried it, but apparently _double click to undo_
| works. [source:
| https://twitter.com/buritica/status/1598518847018979329?s=20]
| jrockway wrote:
| Those buttons look like they're in some place other than the
| US (I think we have two types of buttons here, but I'm not
| enough of an elevator nerd to explain why). In Japan I've
| seen the double-click to undo pretty much everywhere. The
| door close buttons also work.
|
| I could be wrong but I think the ADA was a little
| overzealous. 99% of the time there isn't someone with low
| mobility trying to walk over to the elevator. The 1% of the
| time someone is having trouble, I've never seen them pound
| the door close button; they hold their hand to block the
| light curtain until they get in. (When the elevator starts
| beeping and doing the slow-close thing, that's when I take my
| hand out. I've never seen anyone's hand get crushed in the
| elevator, but you can tell it wants blood.)
| SoftTalker wrote:
| In any modern elevator, the door closing force is only
| enough to move the doors. Any normally-strong person could
| hold the door open indefinitely.
| ChickenNugger wrote:
| Kind of off topic... but after ~20 years of using *nix, the the
| graphic in the background finally explained to me why it's called
| the "shell". Mind blown.
| eCa wrote:
| In my building (northern Europe) the doors are open for quite a
| while (maybe ten seconds). The door-close button closes
| immediately on push, as long as nothing/no-one is
| entering/leaving the elevator.
|
| If it didn't, I'd use the elevator even less than I do. Stairs
| to/from the third floor is just about the same time as the
| elevator.
| Reason077 wrote:
| Right. Throughout Europe and the UK, the "door close" button
| usually does exactly that. Unless something is blocking the
| door, it will close the door immediately.
|
| It's in the US and Canada that the placebo, non-working "door
| close" button seems to be the norm, due to regulations in those
| countries.
|
| So why have a "door close" button at all in the US? I guess
| because most elevator designs/manufacturers have their origins
| in Europe. ThyssenKrupp (Germany), Kone (Finland), Schindler
| (Germany), etc. And rather than design a different panel for
| the European and North American markets, they just have one
| common design but with the software configured differently.
| windows2020 wrote:
| The article explains that door close may function in some
| scenarios and special modes, like independent service mode.
|
| Maintenance put one elevator into this mode to help us with
| moving in. The elevator stayed open at the floor until door
| close was pressed and held long enough for the doors to close
| at which time it became eligible to move to the specified
| floor.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > So why have a "door close" button at all in the US?
|
| As explicitly stated in the article:
|
| (1) Its a legal and functional requirement for fire service
| mode, when automatic door closing is completely disabled.
|
| (2) Some users (the article specifically tested hospitals,
| based on experience of very long normal door hold times there
| that would suggest their should be a window between the
| minimum and normal hold time) do, in fact, configure minimum
| and normal hold time with a window which allows the button to
| operate.
|
| It's not a "non-functional button". Its a button which is
| functional, but where the variable it controls is often
| configured by users to have no range of variability.
| Reason077 wrote:
| Fair enough. So the button does have a purpose.
|
| But I think it's fair to say that in _most_ US elevator
| installations, when the elevator is operating in its normal
| mode (not service or fire mode), the button has no effect.
| Maursault wrote:
| > But I think it's fair to say that in most US elevator
| installations, when the elevator is operating in its
| normal mode (not service or fire mode), the button has no
| effect.
|
| Not quite. There is both a minimum door hold time and a
| door hold time. If the door hold time is longer than the
| minimum door hold time, the close door button works after
| the minimum door hold time. Only if these times are the
| same does the button effectively do nothing.
| klausa wrote:
| > So why have a "door close" button at all in the US?
|
| If only the article you're commenting on described in detail
| a secondary, safety-critical function of that button, maybe
| we wouldn't have to resort to this kind of speculation.
|
| Oh well. Maybe next time!
| dfox wrote:
| Another thing that is probably specific to Europe are elevators
| with retrofitted carriage doors that originally had only shaft
| doors. In this case the carriage doors are usually motorized,
| while the shaft doors are not. And in this case the close door
| button makes significant difference.
| [deleted]
| renlo wrote:
| > In other words, there may be some period during which pushing
| the door close button causes the door to close, but it will be
| after the end of the ADA-required minimum door time.
|
| The button mashers were right all along! I'd always thought it
| was futile to keep pressing the close-door button, but it sounds
| like if you "mash" it you're more likely to hit that sweet spot
| where the button is active.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| Sounds like they should light up the close door button after
| the ADA required time to indicate when the button is active
| (rather than the status quo in which the functionality is
| illegible).
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| There are functional crosswalk buttons in NYC. They're located at
| busy intersections with low foot traffic where it's advantageous
| to extend phases for turning lanes when nobody needs to walk
| through.
| adrianmonk wrote:
| Also, consider what would happen if door close buttons really did
| what people think they want: to close the door immediately,
| unilaterally, and without limitation.
|
| If elevators allowed that, then as soon as the doors started to
| open, a selfish elevator rider would think "sorry, you losers out
| there in the elevator lobby, I gotta get to floor 7 ASAP, so you
| can take the next one" and push the button.
|
| So common sense says the button is only going to let you fine
| tune how long the door stays open, not have complete control. So
| you shouldn't conclude from the fact that it doesn't give you
| complete control that it must not do anything.
| halestock wrote:
| I used to work in a building where the elevators operated this
| way, and riders sometimes DID push the close door button
| immediately, assuming there was no one waiting to go up and
| closing the door on people waiting.
| eknkc wrote:
| The buttons work here in our office building and many other
| places. Some wait for the door to be fully open first and then
| allow immediate closing. That would solve your issue.
|
| Some do actually stop opening and close the doors halfway
| through. Never once seen someone do that.
|
| I mean if you are gonna be a dick, you can shove people out of
| the elevator anyway. No need for a button.
| dgunay wrote:
| > I mean if you are gonna be a dick, you can shove people out
| of the elevator anyway. No need for a button.
|
| Seems like the same principle behind online trolling or road
| rage: putting a layer of tech and/or anonymity between the
| person and their victim makes it easier for people to be
| cruel to each other.
| [deleted]
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| That's a leap. The door will close in seconds anyway. The
| button is locked out until the minimum time has elapsed. The
| window between those two times is the only place the button
| could work. Is it 1 second? 2 seconds?
|
| So the door close button, by regulation, can do little or
| nothing
| pflenker wrote:
| The article mentions cases where this is not true - e.g.
| hospitals, where elevators are configured to stay open much
| longer than the minimum.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| You can always stick your hand in the door and trigger the
| safety mechanism. The close button will not override an
| obstacle in the door, and in any modern elevator the door does
| not close with enough force that a normal person cannot hold it
| open if necessary.
| mannykannot wrote:
| I used to work in an old office building with a long wait and
| where the 'close' button did not seem to do anything, but
| pushing and releasing the 'open' button would cause the doors
| to open to their full extent and then immediately begin
| closing, _regardless of how long the doors had been open._
| Thus, it functioned as a 'close' button.
|
| I did not see it being abused, but I don't know if many people
| had found out about it. I did not use it unless the lobby was
| empty of people heading for the elevators.
| blep-arsh wrote:
| I can confirm from my experience that unrestricted door close
| buttons lead exactly to this - riders closing the doors without
| waiting for others to board.
| shadowgovt wrote:
| I love Radiolab as entertainment podcasting, but it's worth
| knowing that they're surface-skimming their topics and frequently
| make meaningful errors on the details.
|
| I recall vaguely a story they did about how it was hard to walk
| straight while blindfolded and how weird that was, and I
| immediately flashed back to a college professor demonstrating
| this in a controls theory class... But as a proof of how
| inaccuracy mounts in an open-loop control system, because that's
| actually _entirely_ expected (the odds random error would sum
| consistently to zero is what would be weird and unexpected).
| cynicalsecurity wrote:
| I wish the door close button worked as expected. It gives me
| distributing horror film vibes when it doesn't work and others
| come in.
| hairofadog wrote:
| True story: when I was in college I was at a crosswalk waiting
| for a walk signal, and two people walked up. One of them started
| pressing the walk button furiously, and she said, "It won't
| change unless you press it a bunch of times really fast." When
| the walk signal lit up about ten seconds later she said, "See?"
| crazygringo wrote:
| Are you sure they weren't pranking you?
|
| I definitely would try to convince people of random incorrect
| technological things when I was younger (like high school).
| That sounds exactly like something I would have done...
| goatkey wrote:
| For anyone reading this and intrigued by elevator inspections, I
| highly recommend The Intuitionist by Colson Whitehead. It's a
| fun, fiction read!
| sbradford26 wrote:
| Just need an * on the button.
|
| _Close doors when all other parameters are satisfied. * * The
| minimum door opening time parameter might be the standard door
| closing time parameter_
| majormajor wrote:
| It definitely varies a lot in the US. There are benefits to being
| curious and playing around with things vs just believing every
| factoid you here.
|
| The article discusses some of the various configs and rules
| pretty well. After reading about the distance requirements, it's
| unsurprising to me that smaller apartment buildings or lobbies
| are where I've most frequently seen "more responsive" door close
| buttons. It was pretty damn quick in my old apartment, probably
| tiny lobby + not super fast door opening so the minimum was eaten
| into by the time from "ding" to "fully open."
|
| I used to see people visibly surprised that it worked when I used
| it in that building!
|
| ("Push to cross" buttons have the same sort of fun, but with
| slightly more potential consequence for the people who seem to
| refuse to ever push them...)
| tzs wrote:
| Note that the ADA regulations quoted in the article specifically
| talk about open/close timing in the context of opening and
| closing in response to calls.
|
| Once the minimum open time has been reached and the minimum time
| from until start of closing has been reached there should be no
| further limits on open/close timing under those regulations as
| written for the rest of that car's stay at that floor.
|
| I've seen elevators that do implement at that way. Once the first
| open finishes and the first close starts the "open" and "close"
| buttons both act immediately.
|
| This comes in useful when the elevator arrives, people get off
| and on, and then as the doors close someone running down the hall
| shouts asking to hold the elevator. Someone inside can press
| "open" to reverse the closing, and then as soon as the person
| gets in a press of "close" resumes closing (even if the door had
| not yet finished opening).
| dcow wrote:
| My anecdotal experience matches the conclusion... that internet-
| urban myths are born of poor regurgitation of glorified content
| marketing; and also that most door close buttons work after a
| minimum time threshold. Interesting to learn it's part of the
| ADA. Neat newsletter, I subscribed.
| runxel wrote:
| This site would so much improve by using `background-attachment:
| fixed;` in its CSS. I'm getting a headache here.
| ryandrake wrote:
| Not only that, but the text is a tiny sliver of horizontal
| space, with that annoying background filler everywhere else.
| It's so bad I had to break out the ruler just to be sure: My
| monitor is 24 inches across, and at my default text size, the
| content of that site is 6 inches across: 3/4 of the screen
| wasted. This web developer needs a paddlin'.
| philbarr wrote:
| you're right. Open dev tools and add it yourself. :)
| humanistbot wrote:
| I mean, the site is named "Computers are Bad," which fits.
| mhb wrote:
| And then, there's the paternoster (no buttons and no stops):
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35158625
| ElectricSpoon wrote:
| A less known feature of some crosswalk buttons is that some have
| accessibility features. I've seen a few that were pointless when
| pressed due to automatic triggering. Long-press and you'll get
| longer time and an audible indicator while crossing.
| merlyn wrote:
| In downtown Minneapolis, the whole of downtown is on computer
| controlled traffic light grid, so the crosswalk buttons don't
| change any of the timing of the traffic light grid.
|
| But on all the ADA upgraded intersections, the crosswalk
| buttons DO start announcing the count down time, and what
| intersection they are at.
|
| So, they do something, but they won't change the time it takes
| the light to actually change.
| bandyaboot wrote:
| I think the Door Close button should be able to override the
| minimum ADA wait time. What are we worried about? People
| intentionally closing the door while disabled people are trying
| to make their way to the elevator door? I expect that's a
| _nearly_ non-existent problem.
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| I've seen people hit the door close button immediately as an
| elevator arrived at a floor or immediately as they enter it, no
| matter who is waiting behind them. It doesn't work, but they
| try it anyway.
|
| If you allow the button to do that, quite a few people would
| abuse it.
|
| In my opinion, there are enough bad actors to justify
| preventing them from abusing the system.
| [deleted]
| causi wrote:
| _People intentionally closing the door while disabled people
| are trying to make their way to the elevator door? I expect
| that 's a nearly non-existent problem._
|
| People are assholes. Also, a lot of people would just get into
| the habit of hitting the door close button the moment they step
| on without even looking for anyone else.
| nemo44x wrote:
| I think I've noticed in Japan, people hit the door close button
| on the way out of the elevator if no one is standing outside to
| enter. Can anyone verify if this is etiquette in Japan? Are there
| other places that have certain etiquette that outsiders may not
| be aware of?
| acadapter wrote:
| The "door close" button might be an override to the "long open"
| button in some elevators. Then, it might appear as unconnected
| for the regular use case.
| mankyd wrote:
| That's basically what the article says: elevator doors (in the
| US) have a minimum open time, as specified by the ADA, and try
| to close as soon as this minimum time is reached. The close
| button can't override the minimum, so generally it seems like
| the button does nothing.
|
| Meanwhile, some elevators (hospitals are the example given) do
| hold the door open longer than the minimum, and the close
| button works in those places, per their testing.
| CM30 wrote:
| Based on my experience, the door close button seems to work as
| expected at my office. Press the button, and the doors close much
| more quickly than they usually do.
|
| As for crossing buttons... generally they do work in the UK. It's
| just that if the crossing is in the middle of a normal road
| (read, where there's no reason for the lights to change
| automatically) it's required, whereas if the crossing is at a
| junction, it'll merely display the signal to cross whenever the
| lights would be set to change anyway.
| sushisource wrote:
| The reference to crossing buttons not working I found
| particularly annoying because my experience here in Seattle is,
| except at the busiest intersections, you do in fact _need_ to
| press the buttons, otherwise the crosswalk won 't show the
| walking man for you, even if traffic is in fact stopped in the
| relevant direction. (Of course, the article points out this was
| meant to be only about NYC)
|
| Particularly obnoxiously, if you are even a _millisecond_ late
| in pressing the button (traffic just got the red light), you
| won 't get the walking man until the next cycle.
|
| Infuriating.
| none_to_remain wrote:
| It's funnier because you're not allowed to jaywalk in Seattle
| anovikov wrote:
| They are totally connected, they just start door close before
| waiting of a usual timeout which gets annoying. At least here in
| EU, if i pressed the floor button i will wait a few seconds
| before it starts closing doors, if i press floor button then
| "door close" then, unless something is blocking the door, they
| start closing immediately.
| pflenker wrote:
| We're all obsessing here about the door close button while a
| surprisingly large number habe trouble understanding the up/down
| buttons. Surprisingly often, especially elderly people seem to
| think ,,if the elevator is currently above me, I have to push
| ,,down" because I want it to go down to pick me up".
| meindnoch wrote:
| Another common occurrence that makes me mad is people who want
| to go UP entering an elevator that's going DOWN, when the
| downward traveling elevator stops due to some people (coming
| from the upper floors) exiting it.
| brewdad wrote:
| I've done that during exceptionally busy times, like dorm
| moving day. If I wait for the elevator to be going my way on
| its return, it will already be full and I'll be left standing
| in the hall.
|
| Of course, I think everyone's probably done it at least once
| simply due to inattentiveness.
| dgunay wrote:
| That's a pretty funny but insightful perspective tbh. It shows
| a good ability to spatially reason. Or maybe it reflects the
| way certain people view technological devices - they issue
| direct commands, rather than tell it what they want and let it
| figure out how to do it.
| e_i_pi_2 wrote:
| This reminds me about how humans may naturally think of
| numbers in logarithms[1] and the way we teach math is a lot
| of pushing back against that intuition and getting people to
| think about it the unintuitive way
|
| [1]: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-natural-log
| ammar2 wrote:
| How do you they know if the elevator is currently above them?
| Most elevators from my experience don't show the current floor
| they're on.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| This might be a regional thing but the only times I've ever
| seen a lift without an indicator has been in glass lifts.
| dosethree wrote:
| A lot of buildings down have floors under floor #1 so its
| always above you
| kevincox wrote:
| I've seen it fairly frequently in residential buildings in
| Toronto. Usually the main floor has a current floor indicator
| but often the other floors don't. Minor cost savings
| probably?
| rascul wrote:
| In my experiences, there's often an indicator above the
| elevator. Not always though, and I don't use elevators much.
| eirikbakke wrote:
| That logic will indeed get you into the elevator faster,
| though.
| dahwolf wrote:
| What about going down though (reception/lobby)? Is it 1, 0, B,
| -1? I've traveled a lot and any of them can be correct.
| fossuser wrote:
| I was recently in El Salvador and the hotel (Hyatt Centric San
| Salvador) had ThyssenKrupp elevators with door close buttons that
| actually worked! Presumably no ADA minimum times enforced there.
|
| And it was amazing! Well, as amazing as such a thing can be - to
| push a button and have immediate feedback/response (it also felt
| like the doors even closed faster than they do here).
|
| Pushing a button and having it do nothing is one of those
| frustrating little indignities, it's bad with software and it's
| even worse in the real world.
| megablast wrote:
| Some Of the lifts at work respond instantly. It is such a
| delight.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| In the 1990s I worked in a building in Chicago that had
| instant-response close buttons. It was nice.
| bentcorner wrote:
| Some kind of feedback could probably help a lot. On a device
| with a screen you'd disable the button and maybe add some kind
| of countdown to show when you can press it. There's a bunch of
| ways to show this with physical buttons but I guess they'd all
| be varying amounts of non-cheap.
| megablast wrote:
| No. Having it close the doors when you press close the doors
| is what is wanted. Not a little light.
| shadowgovt wrote:
| This is one of those weird times where less feedback may be
| better because of human psychology.
|
| Letting people hammer on the button without feedback gives
| them something to kill time with and the wait is more
| palatable.
| [deleted]
| jonny_eh wrote:
| Or at least have the button light up, and stay lit, until the
| door is closed.
| vultour wrote:
| What a pointlessly elaborate way of arriving at the conclusion
| that the button actually doesn't work.
|
| Sorry, but from the POV of the user one does not care whether
| it's the "elevator controller" blocking the input or the button
| is not connected at all. The end result is the same - you walk
| into the elevator, press the button, and nothing happens. Hitting
| an annoyed user with an anecdotal "actually if the door hold
| timer was longer the button would work just fine!!!" doesn't help
| in the slightest.
| bandyaboot wrote:
| I take it as a push back against the mildly conspiratorial
| thinking that elevator companies left in an explicitly non-
| functioning button for the sake of giving people a sense of
| control.
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| Did you... actually read the article?
|
| If you got "the button actually doesn't work" out of the same
| article that I did, then one of us needs to take reading
| comprehension lessons.
| moron4hire wrote:
| That's a bit like saying your computer's shutdown sequence
| "doesn't work" because it prioritizes ending processes
| gracefully before actually powering off the computer.
| vultour wrote:
| No, it's like having a computer that's already in the
| shutdown sequence and somebody puts a magical button in front
| of you and says if you press this it's going to turn the
| computer off. Then when you press it nothing changes because
| the computer is already shutting down waiting for the
| processes to stop.
| naet wrote:
| _Most of the online pieces about door close buttons I can find
| appear to be based solely on the 2016 NYTimes article and
| actually repeat the claim about the placebo affect more strongly
| than the NYTimes originally makes it. In other words, the "fact"
| that the door close button is a placebo seems to mostly just be a
| product of lazy journalists rewriting an NYTimes piece enough to
| not feel like plagiarists._
|
| I hate that this has become the norm for journalism where only
| one person does any actual research, and then tons of other
| outlets paraphrase it and publish their own version. It devalues
| the work (why would you go through the trouble of actual research
| when you can just rip off someone else?), makes it difficult to
| tell where the story actually came from, and it pollutes the
| search space with dozens of copies of the same story each with
| slightly less connection to the original source material.
|
| It's a lot like the XKCD wikipedia citation loop:
| https://xkcd.com/978/
| eps wrote:
| The depth of this article is really impressive.
| DrewADesign wrote:
| Yeah I never really got why people made that claim. In my
| experience, the door close button works fine after some minimum
| amount of time. Elevators I've used that are primarily for folks
| with significant mobility issues or maybe where they're carrying
| a lot of stuff, like for a Hotel catering kitchen, seem to stay
| open a bit longer. In one hotel I used to get Zipcars from a lot,
| the elevator to the parking garage would stay open for like 30
| seconds if you didn't hit the door close button. It was like that
| for well over a decade so I doubt it was just misconfigured.
| Elevators in professional or residential buildings that need to
| optimize for the number of trips just have a different use case,
| so the door closes much more quickly.
| mc32 wrote:
| The lesson here is that often these "serious" programs are still
| entertainment and are not rigorous and you should always retain
| some skepticism and not believe what they say verbatim. This
| includes things like Myth Busters and so on. I'm not saying they
| are lying on purpose, but they have schedules and expectations to
| fulfill, so they may stray from time to time.
| alexpotato wrote:
| If you liked the original post, you will probably LOVE this
| DEFCON talk about elevator hacking:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHf1vD5_b5I
|
| It also gives a lot of fascinating information about elevators in
| general and specific operation modes.
|
| e.g. there is a "riot mode" where the elevator goes to every
| floor except the first (or ground in EU) floor aka to the lobby.
| The idea was that, during a riot, a luxury building in NYC would
| lock the stairwell access from the lobby but people could still
| take the elevator to the other floors to visit their neighbors
| etc
| schwartzworld wrote:
| Sort of similar: elevators in Israel may be programmed to stop
| at every floor during the Sabbath, as riding the elevator is
| permitted according to the talmudic definition of "work", but
| summoning the elevator is not.
| refactor_master wrote:
| Except if it's summoned by a kosher switch? ;)
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KosherSwitch
| pakyr wrote:
| >The basic idea is that the switch activates only
| sometimes, and only after a delay, making the action
| indirect and uncertain. Several Orthodox poskim have ruled
| as thus makes the device permissible for general consumer
| use.[5][6] Others, however, have reached the opposite
| conclusion.[2]
|
| Wow. Well, loopholes are loopholes I guess.
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| I've seen that in New York City too. Probably common in other
| cities, or at least parts of cities with large Jewish
| populations. A condo I lived in had a malfunction that put it
| into a similar mode, and it was over a long holiday weekend
| so he had to suffer with it until the next business day when
| elevator repair could come out. Even in a ten-story building,
| it really adds a lot of extra time to your ride when it has
| to stop at every floor.
| mwint wrote:
| If you're in reasonably good shape, stairs are a
| deceptively fast mode of transport. Easy to win a race
| against slower elevators over smallish distances.
|
| Also exercise benefits, but I make myself take the stairs
| under the guise of saving time.
| eastbound wrote:
| In Madrid the subway is deep, I had to climb 180 steps to
| home. I did it running, it's actually much easier than
| walking. Best shape I ever was in my life...
| masklinn wrote:
| You may want to avoid that if you go to St Petersburg.
| Deepest station is 80m down. I'm not sure all the
| stations even have stairs, all I remember are endless
| escalators (though it dates back 25 years now so...)
| waqf wrote:
| Meanwhile, on the London Underground, the lengths of all
| sets of stairs down to platform level are described as
| "equivalent to 15 floors" irrespective of how high they
| actually are:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBTvmrRGlbE&t=41s
| delecti wrote:
| I've always found it fascinating and delightful how Jewish
| people in particular seem to treat loopholes like that in
| their religion as features rather than bugs. Christians (the
| only other religion I've got much exposure to) seem to either
| ignore their rules entirely, or interpret them more according
| to a vague vibe of intent.
| bmn__ wrote:
| The rabbinic explanation goes, if god didn't want his
| people to show cleverness in exploiting the loopholes, he
| wouldn't have put them there.
| deanCommie wrote:
| While the Judaic God definitely seems more good-natured
| than the Catholic one (at least in this one regard), as
| an Atheist, to be so close to the point and still miss it
| is some /r/selfawarewolves level rage.
|
| > he wouldn't have put them there
|
| Yes...that's right....he didn't.
| jakeinspace wrote:
| Fascinating, tell us more
| wongarsu wrote:
| Maybe God gave Moses specific guidance on elevator use on
| sabbaths, it just got lost in translation because Moses
| had no clue what God was talking about
| reaperducer wrote:
| Bottom line: "Door close" is not universally useful to all
| people.
|
| On some elevators, it's programmed to actually close the doors
| for a regular passenger.
|
| On some elevators, it's programmed to only respond to
| firefighters, janitors, or other people who have the ability to
| put the elevator into a local control mode.
|
| It varies from building to building. Everything else is a
| placebo.
| mikestew wrote:
| The "bottom line" is that such poorly-researched, context-free
| articles are written to get you to click (see the NYT example),
| and then something contextual to NYC (crosswalk buttons) get
| generalized to the whole nation. And then, true or not, people
| think elevator close buttons don't do anything.
| mankyd wrote:
| That's not at all what this well-researched article finds.
| martopix wrote:
| The article clearly states that the "placebo" theory is
| baseless, so I'm not sure what your "bottom line" that closes
| with "everything else is a placebo" comes from. What is
| "everything else" exactly?
| LeonM wrote:
| There is another reason for the close door button: so that the
| manufacturer or service mechanic have something to blame.
|
| In my building the elevators were brand new (less than a few
| months old) and were constantly out of order. The service
| mechanic was called in time after time, he would arrive, run
| diagnostics, find that nothing was wrong, then reset the control
| system and leave.
|
| After the 10th time or so, the building manager demanded to have
| the entire system replaced under warranty. The manufacturer told
| us: there is nothing wrong with the lift, but you guys are
| constantly pressing the close door button, this breaks the lift!
| So obviously our abuse of the lift was not going to be covered
| under warranty.
|
| We called their bluff we had the mechanic disable the close
| button. The lift still broke. A week later the entire control
| system was replaced (under warranty) and the lift has functioned
| normally ever since, though they never enabled the close door
| button again... :-(
| klyrs wrote:
| The idea that pressing the door-close button would constitute
| "abuse" is laughable. If it's actually a self-destruct button
| by design, it should be locked out by default.
| remram wrote:
| > constantly pressing the close door button, this breaks the
| lift
|
| I'm not sure I understand the argument? Why does this break the
| elevator? Why would a built-in button crashing the elevator not
| be considered a fault?
| amelius wrote:
| Every pushbutton has a limited number of times you can press
| it. A close door button is usually pressed many times by
| impatient passengers. So it will wear out more quickly than
| any other button.
| TheCapn wrote:
| Humoring your ridiculous theory.
|
| 1) Buttons themselves have on the order of hundreds of
| thousands to millions of presses expected before any form
| of failure could begin to be expected. OPs story of a new
| lift failing would not even come close with a person
| standing there 24/7 mashing the button
|
| 2) A button failing would be just that: a failed button.
| Not an entirely failed control system. One would assume the
| button to be a Normally-Open activation, such that
| continuity in the circuit is achieved when the button press
| occurs so a failed button would look to be like a button
| that hasn't been presssed anyway. I'd be happy to be
| corrected on this, but a Normally Closed button is often
| only really used for safety sake where a break in the line,
| loss of voltage, or a button press are all treated equally
| by the control system.
| LeonM wrote:
| > Why does this break the elevator?
|
| It doesn't
|
| > Why would a built-in button crashing the elevator not be
| considered a fault?
|
| The manufacturer was trying to get out of a warranty claim,
| hoping the customer was naive enough to believe their story.
| aliasxneo wrote:
| > The manufacturer was trying to get out of a warranty
| claim, hoping the customer was naive enough to believe
| their story
|
| To be fair, I worked in the service industry for many years
| (as a controls technician), and I had many co-workers who
| intentionally set up long cons like this to stay busy. They
| would come up with equally outlandish reasons for why they
| needed to keep going back and upper management was mostly
| clueless as to how ridiculous they were.
| ortusdux wrote:
| The elevator in a building I lived in had a feature, presumably
| for emergency responders, where holding the door close and a
| floor number simultaneously for a few seconds would take you
| directly to that floor. I believe that method has been replaced
| with a standardized keyed override. The trick did come in handy
| once when a bratty kid pushed all the buttons as a prank.
| polpo wrote:
| I'm not sure where I learned it, but I've found that in many
| older elevators in the US, pressing door close simultaneously
| with the floor number will also get the doors to close
| immediately.
| jgrahamc wrote:
| It's very common in Europe for there to be no Door Close button.
| vultour wrote:
| It's also very common in Europe that the door close button
| actually works as one expects.
| 8organicbits wrote:
| I was very confused by the article and started to doubt myself
| before I realized the author forgot about the world outside the
| US.
|
| It's pretty easy to find photos of these elevators.
|
| https://duckduckgo.com/?va=t&t=ha&q=elevator+with+no+close+b...
| jcrawfordor wrote:
| I did some research into European elevator codes and got the
| impression that depending on country there was either DO/DC
| or a single Door Hold button - but it seems like the labeling
| on DH might be identical to DO on some elevators which
| creates sort of a philosophical question as to if they're
| really different things. Still, you can find elevators with
| DO, DH, _and_ DC it seems, and in that case I have no idea
| what the difference is between DO and DH. It 's kind of hard
| to cover this stuff in Europe as the degree of variation from
| country to country is pretty high, so pretty much any rule
| you state won't apply in some major city that people will
| bring up.
|
| Perhaps I should have been more explicit, but in general I
| hope the discussion of ADA and the ASME code makes it clear
| that I'm talking about the US. Actually the ASME code mostly
| applies directly to Canada as well as a separate but
| harmonized code.
| dhritzkiv wrote:
| Anecdotally, the near dozen or so elevators I've regularly used
| in Canada (both in residential and commercial settings) have had
| their Door Close button work as you'd expect: near instantly - no
| three-or-more second minimum imposed for the doors to be open.
| jaywalk wrote:
| I had always wondered where the "placebo" myth came from, because
| I've been in so many elevators where the door close button
| _obviously_ works. Great article!
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