[HN Gopher] Is Setting Up a VPS Worth It?
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       Is Setting Up a VPS Worth It?
        
       Author : thisismyswamp
       Score  : 18 points
       Date   : 2023-03-13 13:58 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (marcospereira.me)
 (TXT) w3m dump (marcospereira.me)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
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       | bosch_mind wrote:
       | I manage my homelab VPS that's on the cloud with Ansible. Pretty
       | cool but leaning toward migration to Salt
        
       | badrabbit wrote:
       | From what I tried last year, the old VPS days are over. Anti-
       | fraud has ruined it. Having valid payment and email is not
       | enough, and even with that it will take days to provision one. I
       | tried digitalocean, OVH and several big names and wasted a ton of
       | money for a VPS I needed right away.
       | 
       | Just get a gcp,azure or aws compute instance. Hassle is all
       | you'll get with VPS these days.
       | 
       | I can't believe it is so hard to pay someone to provision a VM.
       | They need my phone, i have to go through approvals and so much
       | other bs. 4-5 years ago I was able to get a VPS and a domain with
       | some bitcoin within a few hours. Now some places have the
       | audacity to ask for ID verification.
        
         | zamnos wrote:
         | http://www.rapidseedbox.com still accepts BTC for payment
         | (according to
         | https://help.rapidseedbox.com/en/articles/1088663-how-to-
         | pay...), if that's your jam.
        
         | throwaway81523 wrote:
         | Go on lowendspirit.com there are plenty of VPS with no hassle.
        
           | neets wrote:
           | I just added lowendspirit.com to my bookmarks bar, thanks
        
         | neets wrote:
         | Can you expand on this with personal examples? For example,
         | where were you getting VPS's with Bitcoin?
        
       | stonewall wrote:
       | Do people not use Linux anymore? General Linux admin skills were
       | common knowledge when I was in university ~10 years ago, and many
       | people ran Linux as their primary OS. Most of my friends had
       | their own VPS with little pet websites.
       | 
       | Has the cloud killed this skillset? Seems increasingly less
       | common these days.
        
         | expertentipp wrote:
         | It's all clusters encapsulated in bastions now.
        
       | pictur wrote:
       | I don't think it's worth it in terms of time. Maintaining the
       | established system or adding a new feature is always costly in
       | time. I think it's just fun as a hobby.
        
       | throwaway81523 wrote:
       | Pretty lame. You get used to all that stuff if you're a regular
       | Linux/Un*x user. Set up your favorite container image or
       | orchestraton playbook (I use Ansible) and you are good to go when
       | you spin up a new VPS.
        
       | amadeuspagel wrote:
       | Caddy Server[1] has automatic HTTPS. Makes this much easier.
       | 
       | [1}: https://caddyserver.com/
        
       | pornel wrote:
       | If you go that route, I also recommend using something like
       | Ansible. Unfortunately, it's more things to learn and more to set
       | up, but it's worth it long term.
       | 
       | The problem is that you will set up your first VPS by spending
       | hours installing packages and tweaking configs by hand. But
       | eventually you will need to upgrade the OS, or switch to bigger
       | hardware, or change VPS providers. And then it'll be a nightmare
       | to recreate all that snowflake config elsewhere without
       | forgetting some detail.
       | 
       | The upside is that it's cheap and fast, especially compared to
       | anything "serverless" that chargers per request.
        
         | floatinglotus wrote:
         | I can't imagine using Ansible to configure a single server,
         | seems like the wrong tool IMO.
         | 
         | Why not something like docker-compose and put all of the config
         | bits into a single repo?
         | 
         | That way you can clone the repo on a new server and simply
         | rebuild the containers.
        
           | lmarcos wrote:
           | How do you setup sshd or the ufw, or fail2ban... with Docker?
           | I do see the point on running nginx and a Python apps using
           | Docker, though.
        
             | Macha wrote:
             | How do you setup sshd with ansible? You need some form of
             | access for initial provisioning, Ansible doesn't fix that
             | either.
             | 
             | Sure, you can take that manually configured sshd and
             | replace it with something managed by ansible _after_ the
             | initial setup, but not before.
        
         | bravetraveler wrote:
         | +1 for Ansible, or really any tool of choice.
         | 
         | Even well-written scripts will do! Just know - if you go with
         | writing your own, you're doing something someone probably
         | already did as a module.
         | 
         | With proficiency Ansible is like writing declarative
         | pseudocode. Say what you want and a huge library of Python will
         | 'make it so'.
         | 
         | Eventually you'll have a library of roles that don't care about
         | the operating system, maybe even the provider.
         | 
         | A peer comment mentions _docker-compose_. That 's fine, but I
         | prefer Ansible -- the DSL can be made very similar with a
         | role... and it's far more capable. Like preparing the runtime.
        
         | zamnos wrote:
         | Can I interest you in some Docker? If you're not using docker,
         | and still have an _extensive_ pile of Ansible scripts (you
         | still need some, just not as much as before), it would really
         | be worth your time to investigate how those scripts can be
         | simplified using newer technology.
        
           | lmarcos wrote:
           | Ansible is useful for stuff like installing openssh on the
           | server and setting up a secure sshd config file. Or setting
           | up ufw. You can do more, of course. I don't think Docker is
           | suitable for that kind of stuff.
        
         | ratorx wrote:
         | I don't think Ansible is a good solution. It's kinda a meh
         | middle ground between reproducible system (which is hard to
         | actually do well with Ansible) and simply using
         | backups/snapshots. Ansible introduces a lot of overhead, but
         | does not provide particularly strong reproducibility
         | guarantees. There's no really advantage to treating config
         | differently from data unless you want to use revision control
         | (and simple backups are not enough) or have some tricky config
         | generation to do.
         | 
         | In a lot of cases, especially if you are gonna be moving
         | between machines, rather than scaling horizontally, your
         | machines don't need to be reproducible. You can just restore a
         | backup and tweak the new stuff (network configuration, etc).
         | This gets rid of an entire class of complexity and lets you
         | just do things once (rather than figuring something out and
         | encoding into config management DSL).
         | 
         | If you actually need reproducibility, then it makes sense to go
         | all the way. Something like NixOS provides stronger guarantees
         | than Ansible. There is definitely a larger learning curve than
         | Ansible though.
        
         | erenst wrote:
         | We used to manage 500+ servers with Ansible for almost 10
         | years. It was a nightmare.
         | 
         | With so many servers Ansible script would ocassionally fail on
         | some servers (weird bugs, network issues, ...). Since the
         | operations weren't always atomic we couldn't just re-run the
         | script. it required fixing things manually.
         | 
         | Thanks to this and emergency patches/fixes on individual
         | servers, we ended up with slightly different setup on the
         | servers. This made debugging and upgrading a nightmare. Can
         | this bug happen on all the server or just this one because it
         | has a different minor version of package 'x'?
         | 
         | We switched to NixOS. It had a steep learning curve for us,
         | with lots of doubts if this was the right decision. Converting
         | all the servers to NixOS was a huge 2-year task.
         | 
         | Having all the servers running same configuration that is
         | commited to GitHub, fully reproducable and tested in CI, on top
         | of automatic updates of the servers done with GitHub action,
         | was worth all the troubles we had with learning NixOS.
         | 
         | This entire blog post could be a NixOS config.
        
       | jacob019 wrote:
       | Any thoughts on ufw? I usually disable that and just make sure
       | that I don't have unneeded ports open. I configure iptables
       | manually if needed.
        
       | iansinnott wrote:
       | For small projects I'd remove the bit about 'saving money' being
       | a reason to use VPS. If you want to get better at Linux, then by
       | all means. However, if you'd like to save money, assuming you
       | place any value on your own time, it's just not worth it.
       | 
       | If your project fits in a "serverless" environment use Vercel or
       | Netlify for free. If not, use the Fly free tier or pay a small
       | amount of money per month. Use Supabase or Planescale for the db.
       | 
       | For the price of $0-5/mo* you can deploy whatever you like,
       | without managing the infrastructure. Then you can focus on
       | building whatever it is you wanted to deploy.
       | 
       | * The asterisk is of course that these services usually cost
       | quite a bit more if your usage goes beyond the free tier, but you
       | can always move to a VPS at that point.
        
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       (page generated 2023-03-13 23:03 UTC)