[HN Gopher] Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, F...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federal Reserve,
       and FDIC
        
       Author : FormerBandmate
       Score  : 293 points
       Date   : 2023-03-12 22:23 UTC (37 minutes ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (home.treasury.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (home.treasury.gov)
        
       | debacle wrote:
       | How is this not a bailout?
        
         | bo1024 wrote:
         | Important to note shareholders, executives, etc still get
         | nothing.
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | Well, the term "bailout" usually implies two facts:
         | 
         | (1) Shareholders aren't zeroed in a bailout
         | 
         | (2) The government pays for a bailout
         | 
         | Neither is true here.
        
         | jen20 wrote:
         | Because the shareholders lose their shareholding.
        
         | macintux wrote:
         | Taxpayers are not paying for this, banks collectively are.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | nostromo wrote:
           | The Venn diagram showing federal tax payers and people with a
           | bank account is a circle.
        
       | raydiatian wrote:
       | > Today we are taking decisive actions to protect the U.S.
       | economy by strengthening public confidence in our banking system.
       | 
       | As cool so you're: (1) revoking the bailout money you took from
       | us for the 2008 and 2020 crises
       | 
       | (2) disallowing overdraft fees
       | 
       | (3) reimplementing glass steagall
       | 
       | (4) firing yourselves and then immediately committing seppukku
        
       | cragfar wrote:
       | It's pretty embarrassing how many people thought depositors
       | should be on the hook for this. A banking system where companies
       | or people would actually lose money due to bank failures
       | (especially one caused by a run on the bank) would just lead to
       | people only using BOA, JPM, and some merged WF/Citi/whoever else.
        
       | pdq wrote:
       | Yet another new precedent by the Fed and FDIC. All depositors are
       | now guaranteed their funds if a bank fails.
       | 
       | This is the definition of Moral Hazard [1].
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard
        
         | oblio wrote:
         | If payment is done by other banks, doesn't that serve as
         | mitigation?
         | 
         | Sure, when the government pays, it's super risky.
         | 
         | However if other banks pay, for sure they'll either self
         | regulate or push for better legislation.
        
           | expazl wrote:
           | > If payment is done by other banks, doesn't that serve as
           | mitigation?
           | 
           | Seems the exact opposite. Why would any bank ever conduct
           | risk assessment if their potential failure will be paid by
           | the industry as a whole. This effectively tells any other
           | bank that might be fearing for a bank run to stock up on
           | super risky assets and to let the dice roll to see if they
           | end up winning big, or if their competitors end up paying for
           | their losses.
        
           | Cyph0n wrote:
           | But it's not other banks - it's customers of other banks.
        
       | nostromo wrote:
       | > No losses associated with the resolution of Silicon Valley Bank
       | will be borne by the taxpayer.
       | 
       | Unless you're a taxpayer with a bank account.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | optimalsolver wrote:
       | How long until the usual crowd are back to full Ayn Rand/rugged
       | individualist mode after getting their asses saved by the Fedora
       | Reserve?
        
         | jen20 wrote:
         | Seeing how quickly David Sacks turned from anti government to
         | practically begging the government to save him was one of the
         | highlights of this weekend for me.
         | 
         | It's almost a shame they couldn't carve out a few exceptions
         | for those who don't believe in regulation.
        
       | FormerBandmate wrote:
       | It was announced as a footnote in this Treasury announcement ,
       | which also guarantees 100% deposits for both SVB and Signature
       | Bank above 250k
        
         | jmclnx wrote:
         | So we have a bailout. In case you missed it, SVB successfully
         | lobbied Congress to weaken dodds regulations. So in a way,
         | similar to 2008, Main Street pays so the rich will not loose
         | their funds.
         | 
         | https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/11/silicon-val...
         | 
         | https://fortune.com/2023/03/11/silicon-valley-bank-svb-ceo-g...
         | 
         | https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11847295/CEO-collap...
        
           | colinmorelli wrote:
           | This is not a bailout in the historical sense of the word.
           | Equity holders in the bank are getting nothing. They'll be
           | wiped out. Senior leadership has been removed.
           | 
           | All this did was protect _depositors_, the people who put
           | their money in the bank and thought it would be there
           | tomorrow. And it's being done by dipping further into the
           | FDIC fund, which is paid by banks. It will reach down to
           | taxpayers likely through reduced rates or increased fees.
        
           | christkv wrote:
           | It's not a bailout it's a backstop. All shareholders of SVB
           | are done for.
        
       | azundo wrote:
       | Sort of burying the lede - also states that all SVB depositors
       | will be made whole along with Signature depositors.
        
         | refulgentis wrote:
         | Oddly, that's whats happening on Twitter too: the haute couture
         | space ppl ran to start a space and frame it as "the contagion
         | beginning"
         | 
         | I find this to be an odd moment in internet history, a lot of
         | its senior elders seem to have forgotten the odd effects it has
         | on discourse and are unintentionally leaning into it
        
         | archgoon wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | FormerBandmate wrote:
         | I could have sworn that was already posted here, my bad. Can
         | mods change the thread title?
        
           | clessg wrote:
           | It's early enough that you _might_ still be able to do so
           | yourself. I 'm not sure, though. Cmd-f (or ctrl) edit! :)
        
             | FormerBandmate wrote:
             | Good catch
        
         | mightybyte wrote:
         | I'm not quite sure of that interpretation of the text. Here's
         | the quote:
         | 
         | > We are also announcing a similar systemic risk exception for
         | Signature Bank, New York, New York, which was closed today by
         | its state chartering authority. All depositors of this
         | institution will be made whole. As with the resolution of
         | Silicon Valley Bank, no losses will be borne by the taxpayer.
         | 
         | To me, that last sentence about SVB is distinct and separate
         | and not implying that the previous sentence about Signature
         | depositors applies to SVB. But you could be right as well, I
         | don't think it's clear.
        
           | kgwgk wrote:
           | The "also announcing a similar" bit is a subtle hint that one
           | may also want to read the previous paragraph :-)
           | 
           | "After receiving a recommendation from the boards of the FDIC
           | and the Federal Reserve, and consulting with the President,
           | Secretary Yellen approved actions enabling the FDIC to
           | complete its resolution of Silicon Valley Bank, Santa Clara,
           | California, in a manner that fully protects all depositors.
           | Depositors will have access to all of their money starting
           | Monday, March 13. No losses associated with the resolution of
           | Silicon Valley Bank will be borne by the taxpayer."
        
       | swyx wrote:
       | > After receiving a recommendation from the boards of the FDIC
       | and the Federal Reserve, and consulting with the President,
       | Secretary Yellen approved actions enabling the FDIC to complete
       | its resolution of Silicon Valley Bank, Santa Clara, California,
       | in a manner that fully protects all depositors. Depositors will
       | have access to all of their money starting Monday, March 13.
       | 
       | this is also material. means the fear for SVB depositors being
       | unsecured creditors stops today.
        
       | tazjin wrote:
       | There used to be a TV show in Europe called "Domino Day", where
       | teams competed to build very elaborate domino structures. Used to
       | love the sound of the dominos falling ...
        
         | oblio wrote:
         | If you don't know what the other dominoes are or when they'll
         | fall, it makes for a very boring game of dominoes.
        
       | mkmk wrote:
       | "After receiving a recommendation from the boards of the FDIC and
       | the Federal Reserve, and consulting with the President, Secretary
       | Yellen approved actions enabling the FDIC to complete its
       | resolution of Silicon Valley Bank, Santa Clara, California, in a
       | manner that fully protects all depositors. Depositors will have
       | access to all of their money starting Monday, March 13. No losses
       | associated with the resolution of Silicon Valley Bank will be
       | borne by the taxpayer."
        
         | FormerBandmate wrote:
         | This should stop the contagion, hopefully. No losses to
         | depositors, so no risk of depositing at regional banks
        
         | kqr2 wrote:
         | This special fee will most likely be passed onto bank account
         | holders either through lower interest rates or higher fees, so
         | most taxpayers with bank accounts will likely be affected
         | indirectly.
        
           | jachee wrote:
           | Wonder how it applies, if at all, to credit unions.
        
             | mixdup wrote:
             | it does not, credit unions are not members of the FDIC.
             | They are members of the NCUA, which serves the same purpose
             | as the FDIC for credit unions
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | If anything they'll benefit slightly by being able to
               | offer slightly higher rates.
               | 
               | Though hopefully the total cost after everything is
               | worked out is vanishingly small - otherwise we have a
               | much larger problem.
        
           | ummonk wrote:
           | They'll be less affected than they would have been if
           | contagion had been allowed to spread unchecked. All banks
           | have a vested interest in the stability of the financial
           | system in general.
        
       | The28thDuck wrote:
       | I feel like the global banking system is surfing a wave that's
       | just about to pull all of us under. I wonder if today will be an
       | entry in a Wikipedia page.
        
       | serf wrote:
       | > No losses associated with the resolution of Silicon Valley Bank
       | will be borne by the taxpayer.
       | 
       | i'm out of touch with how much of this works, can someone explain
       | how this is paid without burden to the taxpayer?
        
         | AmericanOP wrote:
         | SVB has assets but not liquidity. This is not like 2008 where
         | the assets themselves are worthless.
        
         | morelisp wrote:
         | It's coming out of the insurance fund, which is paid into by
         | banks. So the cost is still ultimately borne across a wider
         | sphere, but not the government per se. (This is what's meant by
         | "Any losses to the Deposit Insurance Fund to support uninsured
         | depositors will be recovered by a special assessment on banks,
         | as required by law.")
         | 
         | The costs aren't borne by "the taxpayer", but an awful lot of
         | taxpayers who had nothing to do with this or even purposely
         | avoided it may be paying higher banking fees as a result.
        
           | salawat wrote:
           | Translation: cost is being bore by the taxpayer but people
           | are staking out the stop posts on their analysis to avoid
           | admitting it.
        
         | arunabha wrote:
         | Mentioned later in the announcement.
         | 
         | > Any losses to the Deposit Insurance Fund to support uninsured
         | depositors will be recovered by a special assessment on banks,
         | as required by law.
        
           | MuffinFlavored wrote:
           | which banks will recoup by higher interest rates/fees? :P
        
         | jakubadamw wrote:
         | Not an expert either, but this:
         | 
         | > Any losses to the Deposit Insurance Fund to support uninsured
         | depositors will be recovered by a special assessment on banks,
         | as required by law.
         | 
         | suggests other banks will effectively pick up the bill?
        
           | pbhjpbhj wrote:
           | So taxpayers will pay, but through their bank deposits and
           | mortgages?
           | 
           | It's hard not to see how this will be "private the profits,
           | democratise the losses".
        
             | temende wrote:
             | Yes, every part of the economy is indirectly connected.
             | Profits are also democratised via income and capital gains
             | tax, even if it's not at a high enough level that people
             | feel good about.
        
             | xyzzyz wrote:
             | "Privatize the profits"? What are you talking about? The
             | owners of SVB are wiped out, they will not see any profits,
             | they lost their entire equity in SVB.
        
               | unity1001 wrote:
               | > "Privatize the profits"? What are you talking about?
               | The owners of SVB are wiped out
               | 
               | The depositors took risks by lending their money to such
               | a risky bank for better returns in lieu of the risk. Now
               | the rest of the people and businesses, who played it
               | safe, will have to foot the bill for the risk that those
               | depositors took.
               | 
               | Additionally removing the burden of the deposits from SVB
               | will allow it to recover some of its lost asset value.
               | The state took over its liabilities now.
        
               | ttymck wrote:
               | No profits? None, ever?
               | 
               | https://www.livemint.com/market/stock-market-news/svb-
               | chief-...
        
               | xyzzyz wrote:
               | And how much stock he has left that he didn't sell, and
               | lost entirely a few days later? Is this really the best
               | argument for the "privatize the profits" narrative, that
               | someone picked up a few pennies from in front of $6B
               | steamroller?
        
           | swyx wrote:
           | idk if the numbers exactly add up here or if there are other
           | sources of funding but the I in FDIC is Insurance, which is
           | already paid for - the FDIC has money from insurance premiums
           | to cover expected cost of losses
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | dathinab wrote:
         | Because SVB lacks the liquidity to pay out the bank run but
         | doesn't lack the assets, at least as long as you only pay out
         | deposits (which is what they are doing i.e. "Shareholders and
         | certain unsecured debtholders will not be protected.").
         | 
         | The thing is that without this decision there would be two
         | problems:
         | 
         | 1. deposits would only re-accessable much later, too late for
         | most small Companies to survive
         | 
         | 2. depending on law/regulation aspects I don't know much about
         | it also may have been a possibility that Stockholder get payed
         | out first and similar
        
       | shippintoboston wrote:
       | How exactly are they guaranteeing all deposits? They claim to not
       | be bailing them out and they haven't found a seller. I'm smelling
       | bullshit.
        
         | nemo44x wrote:
         | Have we already forgot "money printing machine goes brrrrrrrr"?
        
           | idiotsecant wrote:
           | This isn't reddit.
        
         | pcl wrote:
         | "Any losses to the Deposit Insurance Fund to support uninsured
         | depositors will be recovered by a special assessment on banks,
         | as required by law."
        
         | scatters wrote:
         | The rest of the industry is paying. "Any losses to the Deposit
         | Insurance Fund to support uninsured depositors will be
         | recovered by a special assessment on banks, as required by
         | law.". RIP the $250k FDIC limit, I guess.
        
         | colinmorelli wrote:
         | Dipping into the FDIC pool beyond what's needed to cover the
         | $250k. That, combined with the ability to sell of SVBs assets
         | must give confidence to cover all deposits without burdening
         | taxpayers.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | taeric wrote:
         | My understanding is that all of the assets are still there.
         | Moreover, many of them were expected to be safe for long term
         | holding, such that anyone that can play a long game with a
         | diversified portfolio could welcome these assets onto the
         | books.
         | 
         | Problem, of course, is that they were some massive assets and
         | adding them to a book without unbalancing it is going to be
         | difficult to do.
        
         | xenadu02 wrote:
         | The assets will take a few years to fully wind down but are
         | likely to payoff anywhere from 80-98% so the actual haircut
         | won't be that large. The insurance fund will float the money
         | until final resolution, then increase insurance premiums if
         | needed to makeup the difference.
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | I take Treasury statements at their word, and I'm not sure why
         | you wouldn't too. We'll find out the details soon enough.
        
       | nemo44x wrote:
       | All depositors will be made whole. Good news. Wonder how many
       | more will still fail this week.
        
         | morelisp wrote:
         | Given that the reasoning for dipping into the insurance fund is
         | to prevent anything else from failing, if any more do this is
         | just SV getting into the grift on the ground floor again.
        
         | AmVess wrote:
         | 9 more are on the edge.
        
       | obblekk wrote:
       | The Fed is giving banks an infinite credit line at par value of
       | their assets.
       | 
       | This allows them to borrow and cash out any customer who wants,
       | so long as they have assets.
       | 
       | This program would have saved SVB last week.
       | 
       | People may continue moving around money, but the runs are over.
        
       | noelsusman wrote:
       | It's a bit embarrassing to have to invoke the systemic risk
       | exception when regulations on these banks were relaxed in 2018 on
       | the theory that they wouldn't pose a systemic risk if they got
       | into trouble. This should spark some serious soul searching from
       | everyone involved in that effort, but I'm not holding my breath.
       | 
       | Anyway, I'm happy for all the depositors.
        
         | mortenjorck wrote:
         | I think there was an air of "hey, it's been ten years since
         | 2008, the system is working; we can relax Dodd-Frank a little
         | bit."
         | 
         | After March 2023, the message should be an unequivocal "no, not
         | even a little bit."
        
         | AH4oFVbPT4f8 wrote:
         | Why are you happy for the depositors? They took a risk
         | depositing more than what was covered by fdic.
         | 
         | to clarify, i'm happy for the employees, workers, etc that will
         | remain employed while their company made poor decisions. My
         | beef is that companies knowingly took risks. Would this even be
         | an issue if all the VC companies didnt all try to pull their
         | money out on Thur/Fri ?
        
           | zachrip wrote:
           | I'm very ignorant on the subject - what else would they do
           | with the money?
        
             | NoboruWataya wrote:
             | Buy safe, highly liquid securities like t-bills, commercial
             | paper, money market funds etc.
        
             | erik_seaberg wrote:
             | People have pointed out brokers that will shotgun your
             | deposits across _many_ banks to game the deposit insurance
             | limit, and apparently the FDIC is fine with that. But if
             | every employer needs to do this, I'm not sure there's still
             | a reason for separate banks to exist and compete.
        
             | hobo_mark wrote:
             | Buy treasury bills?
        
             | Me1000 wrote:
             | As others have pointed out there are of course options:
             | multiple accounts, buying safe bonds, etc. But those are
             | all pretty unrealistic for most small businesses. Startups
             | with 3 or 4 people aren't going to spend a lot of time
             | learning all the ins and outs and risks of the options
             | available.
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | This is a reasonable middle ground. Depositors are made whole
           | and taxpayers aren't on the hook directly (although this will
           | filter down to them in aggregate in a de minimis manner).
           | 
           | To those with large amounts of fiat hanging around: please
           | don't fuck around again. Spend a few hours with your finance
           | team to minimize risk. It is straightforward and well within
           | the means of anyone with these cash or cash equivalents on
           | hand (sweep accounts, short dated treasuries, etc). Build it
           | into your runbook. Costs are minimal, consider them an
           | insurance premium.
           | 
           | Edit: if you don't have a finance team, you can get the same
           | help from a contract finance professional
        
             | lacker wrote:
             | _Spend a few hours with your finance team to minimize
             | risk._
             | 
             | That's great for people who have a finance team, but a
             | startup with over $250k in the bank can easily be just one
             | or two people who raised money and have no particular
             | finance expertise.
             | 
             | Personally I think we should bump the limits - it should be
             | reasonable for a startup that just raised $10m to be able
             | to put that money somewhere safe, and pay rent, payroll,
             | and an AWS bill with it, without having to hire a "finance
             | team".
        
               | eropple wrote:
               | _> it should be reasonable for a startup that just raised
               | $10m to be able to put that money somewhere safe, and pay
               | rent, payroll, and an AWS bill with it, without having to
               | hire a  "finance team"_
               | 
               | Aren't VCs supposed to support their investments with
               | expertise? This is eminently socializable expertise.
               | 
               | The entire economy does not need to insure upwards to
               | protect startups.
        
               | AH4oFVbPT4f8 wrote:
               | Why are VC giving money to a company who can't manage it?
        
             | eropple wrote:
             | _> To those with large amounts of fiat hanging around:
             | please don't fuck around again._
             | 
             | They are going to. The smuglord backpatting on social media
             | has already begun.
             | 
             | But I admire your optimism.
        
             | gizmondo wrote:
             | Why bother? It seems all deposits are in fact insured
             | regardless of what rules say.
        
               | toomuchtodo wrote:
               | The wheel will not always land on zero. Everyone got
               | lucky there was will to bend the rules.
        
           | hoytschermerhrn wrote:
           | It's simply unrealistic for businesses to not exceed the
           | $250k insurance limit.
        
             | gameshot911 wrote:
             | You can buy insurance to protect amounts above $250k.
        
               | AH4oFVbPT4f8 wrote:
               | Exactly this, take out insurance, open additional
               | accounts so that the companies livelihood is not
               | dependent on a single bank. What about all the companies
               | who funded all these 'companies' ? Why aren't they
               | stepping in to clean up the mess?
        
               | avalys wrote:
               | And who ensures that the insurance company has enough
               | capital to pay out on that insurance?
        
               | consumer451 wrote:
               | I had no idea that was an option. My google-fu is failing
               | me, what is that called? Who are the providers? Seems
               | like it would be a mega capital intensive insurance
               | product.
        
               | ummonk wrote:
               | That just moves the source of risk to the company selling
               | you that insurance. If they go under as well, then that
               | insurance is worthless.
        
             | noelsusman wrote:
             | We solved this problem decades ago, these businesses chose
             | not to use the tools available to them to protect their
             | money.
             | 
             | https://www.intrafinetworkdeposits.com/
        
             | eropple wrote:
             | Both insured sweep accounts _and_ non-FDIC depository
             | insurance exist.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | Me1000 wrote:
           | I can't believe we're on day 3 of this and it still has to be
           | explained. SVBs depositors were mostly companies. Companies
           | don't go to new banks every time their account balance
           | reached $250k. If these deposits were not honored thousands
           | of companies would not be able to make payroll.
        
             | noelsusman wrote:
             | https://www.intrafinetworkdeposits.com/
        
             | morelisp wrote:
             | I can't believe we're still on day 3 and people are still
             | arguing with the strawman that you'd have to open an
             | account per $250k to mitigate the risk. (You need to open
             | two or three accounts total, and beyond that you're big
             | enough to start buying your own T-Bills. And no, that
             | doesn't mean you do that at $750k. Christ, it's a
             | distributed systems problem, you guys should be able to
             | figure this out.)
        
               | Me1000 wrote:
               | A 3 person tech startup with more than $750k is not going
               | to buy treasures.
        
             | unyttigfjelltol wrote:
             | I would put it differently. SVB was a bankers' bank, _i.e._
             | , venture capital. Venture capital now is systemically
             | important, having initiated their own bank run.
        
         | morelisp wrote:
         | The depositors were largely those with means to manage risk but
         | not doing so. Surely you mean you're happy for the workers,
         | clients, contractors, etc., not the depositors? Right? The
         | backstop was sold on the backs of those people, and if they're
         | not the overwhelming beneficiary it means the depositors might
         | not have been totally honest with us about their motives!
        
           | kgwgk wrote:
           | > Surely you mean you're happy for the workers, clients,
           | contractors, etc., not the depositors?
           | 
           | Why would anyone be happy for the workers of a bank that
           | won't exist anymore in any form once the liquidation is
           | sorted out?
           | 
           | [Edit: Nevermind, my dumbass didn't understand that those
           | were the workers of the depositors, the clients of the
           | depositors, etc.]
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | ghettoimp wrote:
           | The depositors did nothing here but put their own money in a
           | bank account?
           | 
           | What possible nefarious motive are you implying?
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | > The depositors did nothing here but put their own money
             | in a bank account?
             | 
             | I'm guessing the mistake parent is implying to is that they
             | put more than what was insured, knowing very well the risk
             | that if the bank fail, they might only get back 250K USD,
             | as it's only insured up to that.
             | 
             | Well, in theory at least. In practice it seems the
             | insurance was actually a unspecified "unlimited" amount, as
             | they'll get all their funds back now.
        
       | ZachPruckowski wrote:
       | > "Any losses to the Deposit Insurance Fund to support uninsured
       | depositors will be recovered by a special assessment on banks, as
       | required by law."
       | 
       | Very curious to see who ends up paying this special assessment.
       | Are we all going to pay in lower deposit/investment interest from
       | banks? Are bank shareholders/profits gonna eat it?
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | The balance sheet hole is likely to be relatively small.
         | 
         | > Are we all going to pay in lower deposit/investment interest
         | from banks? Are bank shareholders/profits gonna eat it?
         | 
         | Some combination of this, I think.
        
         | mskec wrote:
         | > Shareholders and certain unsecured debtholders will not be
         | protected.
         | 
         | Shareholders and bondholders will likely lose everything as
         | nothing will be left after selling off assets.
        
           | akavi wrote:
           | My reading is that the "assessment" (tax) will be borne by
           | _all_ banks, not just the bank that fails.
           | 
           | My gut says that the incidence will fall primarily on deposit
           | holders (likely in the form of marginally lower interest
           | rates), and not significantly on bank equity holders, but I
           | suspect it'd take an econ phd to fully parse that out.
        
       | likeabbas wrote:
       | A bail out for the Bay Area. Should've just let them bust tbh
        
       | selimnairb wrote:
       | What if the Federal Reserve offered retail banking. Would it
       | stabilize the banking sector? They wouldn't be forced to try to
       | find loans to pay interest on deposits. Where do private banks
       | add value over what the Fed could do. ELI5.
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | Banks use deposits to extend loans to other customers. A narrow
         | bank wouldn't do that.
        
           | selimnairb wrote:
           | Couldn't the Fed just offer retail loans at the Federal
           | Reserver rate, with maybe some kind of premium if inflation
           | is high, or discount if inflation is low? What am I missing?
           | Why do we need all these banks, some of which
           | catastrophically explode every decade or so?
        
         | mason55 wrote:
         | Yeah, if there's too much cash sloshing around then this idea
         | helps because the banks don't need to find places to put all
         | their deposits.
         | 
         | What happens normally though is that everyone banks at the Fed
         | and the banks don't have any deposits and so loans freeze up,
         | which is bad.
        
       | seo-speedwagon wrote:
       | This is 100% a bailout and the wording that "no losses [...] will
       | be borne by the taxpayer" is a shameful misrepresentation. Just
       | because a bunch of VCs and founders didn't realize they were at
       | risk of this happening if they kept all their money in one bank,
       | they still bear the responsibility of their losses. Looking
       | forward to this new future where uninsured deposits are actually
       | 100% backed by the FDIC, so actually if your company spends any
       | money to diversify or de-risk your banking posture based on how
       | the rules are written, you're a rube and potentially being
       | irresponsible towards your shareholders
        
         | coffeebeqn wrote:
         | What's the moral hazard in the FDIC insuring a much larger
         | number than 250k?
        
         | ghettoimp wrote:
         | How do we know this is a "shameful misrepresentation" until we
         | see how it pans out?
        
         | reso wrote:
         | I am also confused about where the money is coming from to
         | cover SVB's losses, if not from the taxpayer.
        
           | cragfar wrote:
           | The FDIC can tell banks they need to pay more into it to
           | cover the losses.
        
       | Khaine wrote:
       | So much for moral hazard.
       | 
       | Capitalism is supposed to be about profit and loss, you bail out
       | the losers, there is no end to the loss.
       | 
       | I guess we still haven't learned the lessons from 2008. Effective
       | regulation should have been put in place to oversee that banks
       | are effectively managing their risks. Not bailing out companies
       | whenever times get tough.
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | > you bail out the losers, there is no end to the loss
         | 
         | The difference here is that the "losers" made was supposed to
         | be an incredibly safe bet.
         | 
         | > I guess we still haven't learned the lessons from 2008
         | 
         | Not my observation, but it's more like we were fighting the
         | last crisis. Stress tests were focused more on bad assets, not
         | safe assets in an environment with rapidly raising rates.
         | Regulation and oversight only work for failure modes you're
         | looking for. A handful of short sellers spotted this earlier in
         | the year, but what happened is only obvious in hindsight.
        
       | startupsfail wrote:
       | Should the title of HN post be changed to the "Joint
       | statement..."
        
       | AviationAtom wrote:
       | I'm surprised the top comment wasn't focusing on this bit of the
       | statement:
       | 
       | "We are also announcing a similar systemic risk exception for
       | Signature Bank, New York, New York, which was closed today by its
       | state chartering authority."
        
       | version_five wrote:
       | So they made their decision, everyone can move on. I just hope
       | nobody forgets how prominent VCs behaved during the brief period
       | of uncertainty. The idea of some noble class of investors
       | championing disruption is dead. They're just a bunch of rent
       | seekers like everybody else. For some silly reason I had some
       | respect for the startup industry before this, now I see it as a
       | joke.
       | 
       | It's great at a personal level that "founders" and startup
       | employees didn't have to do without. But it's important to
       | remember that they no longer automatically deserve any credit for
       | taking risks and doing something new. It might as well be a bunch
       | of FAANG employees
        
         | lambic2 wrote:
         | I don't understand this comment. 1) SVB was not managed by
         | VC's. 2) SVB went under because they bought US Treasuries, not
         | because they took risky bets on startups.
        
       | yawnxyz wrote:
       | Incredible that this can just be done over a weekend. Is there a
       | good writeup of (what I assume is a mountain-load of work) of how
       | this works, and what happens during this process?
       | 
       | Also, will the FDIC just eventually feed SVB's MBSs back into its
       | insurance fund once they mature?
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | People can work fast when it matters.
         | https://patrickcollison.com/fast
        
         | winterqt wrote:
         | See https://www.npr.org/2009/03/26/102384657/anatomy-of-a-
         | bank-t... for some more info on how efficiently the FDIC works.
        
       | spdustin wrote:
       | The "special assessment" is levied directly on banks, and is
       | referenced in 12 U.S.C. 1817(b)(5):
       | 
       | In addition to the other assessments imposed on insured
       | depository institutions under this subsection, the Corporation
       | may impose 1 or more special assessments on insured depository
       | institutions in an amount determined by the Corporation if the
       | amount of any such assessment is necessary
       | 
       | (A) to provide sufficient assessment income to repay amounts
       | borrowed from the Secretary of the Treasury under section 1824(a)
       | of this title in accordance with the repayment schedule in effect
       | under section 1824(c) of this title during the period with
       | respect to which such assessment is imposed;
       | 
       | (B) to provide sufficient assessment income to repay obligations
       | issued to and other amounts borrowed from insured depository
       | institutions under section 1824(d) of this title; or
       | 
       | (C) for any other purpose that the Corporation may deem
       | necessary.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | I love how (c) makes a and b pointless.
        
       | greatjack613 wrote:
       | It's not enough for senior management to be removed. Malfeasance
       | like this needs to have real life consequences.
        
         | readthenotes1 wrote:
         | misfeasance, in this case, more than malfeasance.
         | 
         | And of course there are consequences to senior management.
         | 
         | <s>
         | 
         | Since they cashed out a bit and got their bonuses, they can
         | probably take a vacation for a month or two and then come back
         | and get a promotion in some other part of the financial
         | industry. After all, they have learned a multi-billion dollar
         | lesson. Don't want to throw that away!
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | It's not clear that there was malfeasance. Bad business
         | performance isn't criminal.
        
         | twiddling wrote:
         | a stern talking to is in order
        
           | weard_beard wrote:
           | A stern talking to about using their infinite money wisely,
           | and not charging customers for the convenience. Perhaps a
           | finger wag about doubling overdrafts to pay for their
           | infinite money. A _tsk_ for tripling monthly payments for
           | student checking accounts.
        
       | brunooo wrote:
       | Oh, surprising re Signature, but 100% backstop should calm things
       | down.
       | 
       | Any fiat <-> crypto rails left in the US, after the FDIC buries
       | SEN on, I dunno, Tuesday?
        
       | VagueMag wrote:
       | So without Signet, does Circle have any means to satisfy USDC
       | redemptions?
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | Wire transfers?
        
       | AH4oFVbPT4f8 wrote:
       | It was announced as a footnote in this Treasury announcement ,
       | which also guarantees 100% deposits for both SVB and Signature
       | Bank above 250k
       | 
       | How?! Who is funding this and if they sell the bank assets who is
       | covering the losses?
        
         | xenadu02 wrote:
         | If you look at the FDIC data for bank closures a lot of times
         | the ultimate resolution is over 90% payback - the FDIC calls
         | these "dividends". In some cases the payback is 100% to
         | depositors and general creditors get some money. It just takes
         | time - a 2009 bank failure may not finish dividend paybacks
         | until 2014.
         | 
         | The odds are the FDIC will ultimately (in the next 5 years)
         | wind down SVB's assets with enough excess to nearly cover all
         | deposits. The amount the insurance fund will eat isn't likely
         | to be very large.
         | 
         | The statement about an assessment on member banks is just how
         | the fund works normally: whenever there's a large payout event
         | exceeding normal reserves the fund recoups the money by
         | assessing member banks.
        
           | belter wrote:
           | > whenever there's a large payout event exceeding normal
           | reserves the fund recoups the money by assessing member
           | banks.
           | 
           | The point you are missing is that would be to pay the
           | required excess to cover the 250K per depositor, but this is
           | a bailout of all depositors money.
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | Interesting that they're announcing this for SVB and Signature. I
       | infer from this that they will backstop the depositors at these
       | two banks, and they assume that by doing so no other ones will be
       | 'run' by depositors.
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | They didn't say as much, but that was my read.
        
       | NKosmatos wrote:
       | "Depositors will have access to all of their money starting
       | Monday, March 13."
       | 
       | So, they can all go tomorrow morning and withdraw/transfer their
       | money out of SVB?
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | Yes, that's my read of what it means. (Although the carcass of
         | SVB was renamed to "DINB.")
        
       | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
       | Yellen and the FDIC is in a tough spot. This is the important
       | line, "Any losses to the Deposit Insurance Fund to support
       | uninsured depositors will be recovered by a special assessment on
       | banks, as required by law."
       | 
       | Thus, on one hand, I'm glad they're doing this, as it should help
       | prevent wider bank runs, and it ensures that banks are the ones
       | that are actually paying for it.
       | 
       | At the same time, this is yet another example of changing the
       | rules in the middle of the game. Yellen has just broadcast that
       | FDIC insurance is _essentially_ unlimited, as long as you can
       | threaten wider disruption to the economy.
       | 
       | I understand part of this is human nature but I really wish we
       | could plan for these entirely foreseeable events _ahead of time_
       | so that it 's not just cases of "selective justice" with regards
       | to who gets bailed out.
        
         | bradleyjg wrote:
         | So depositors at banks taking on big risks get elevated
         | interest rates or other perks for years, and when the shit hits
         | the fan depositors that put their money in prudent banks get to
         | bail them out through higher fees.
         | 
         | And people wonder why turnout is low. There's no way to vote
         | for non captured politicians.
        
         | notmindthegap wrote:
         | Did you foresee this?
        
           | chejazi wrote:
           | Those who did foresee it made highly profitable trades:
           | https://twitter.com/notmrmanziel/status/1633940364460474372
        
           | twelve40 wrote:
           | surely it's not on HN throwaway to do all the foreseeing
           | here? there are people whose fulltime job is to monitor the
           | banks.
        
         | fortenforge wrote:
         | There is some sense in which this is true, but the systemic
         | risk exception which they are invoking was always on the books.
        
         | belter wrote:
         | "...recovered by a special assessment on banks, as required by
         | law..." - Would love to know what law/regulatory framework she
         | is referring to. Janet Yellen is ready to become a US based Liz
         | Truss...
         | 
         | Now expect a contagion effect it next week, if SVB liabilities
         | are shown worst than currently known, and made to bare on other
         | banks capital requirements...
         | 
         | "US banks sitting on unrealized losses of $620 billion" -
         | https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/12/investing/stocks-week-ahe...
        
           | mixdup wrote:
           | the systemic risk exceptions/procedures they're using were
           | put in place after 2008
        
           | jen20 wrote:
           | ... are you sure you understand who Liz Truss is and what she
           | did?
        
             | belter wrote:
             | Yes.
        
           | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
           | > Would love to know what law/regulatory framework she is
           | referring to.
           | 
           | This is not some conspiratorial secret. Banks pay premiums to
           | the FDIC for their insurance, and it's a requirement of all
           | chartered banks. The FDIC has the right to backstop deposits
           | in excess of the deposit limit by invoking a "systemic risk"
           | clause (I'm not sure exactly which law this comes under,
           | whether it's some of the original laws that created the FDIC,
           | or more recent post-financial crisis updates). When the FDIC
           | fund gets depleted, they have the right to invoke a special
           | assessment against banks.
           | 
           | > Now expect a contagion effect it next week
           | 
           | The whole point of doing this is to _prevent_ a contagion.
           | The reason there was a bank run against SVB was a mix not
           | just that their asset values had deteriorated (that was well
           | known for some time), it 's that their non-diversified
           | deposit base of VC-funded start ups have gradually needed to
           | up their withdrawals since early 2022. SVB would have
           | survived if there wasn't a run on the bank, and the whole
           | purpose of this action was to prevent further runs by saying
           | that deposits will be protected.
        
             | luckylion wrote:
             | > Banks pay premiums to the FDIC for their insurance, and
             | it's a requirement of all chartered banks.
             | 
             | Do they have special rules for when the FDIC decides to
             | retroactively insure some bank's deposits for more than
             | $250k per account holder? Because now everyone's insurance
             | premiums will go up to cover this, won't they?
        
           | spdustin wrote:
           | 12 U.S.C. 1817(b)(5) is the "regulatory framework" you're
           | looking for. The FDIC can levy a special assessment for
           | literally any purpose it seems necessary.
        
         | notfromhere wrote:
         | The FDIC can waive limits if it feels the deposits are of a
         | systemic nature. It has had this power for a long time
        
         | ajross wrote:
         | > I really wish we could plan for these entirely foreseeable
         | events ahead of time
         | 
         | That's exactly what Dodd-Frank did. The audit and stress
         | testing requirements got rolled back in the Trump
         | administration. "Planning" is not the problem here.
        
         | grey-area wrote:
         | Well one way to do this would be to regulate banks more, like
         | we used to:
         | 
         | https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/24/trump-signs-bank-bill-rollin...
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass-Steagall_legislation
        
           | Donald wrote:
           | This isn't necessarily a Glass-Steagall issue as SVB was
           | primarily in government bonds and mortgage-backed securities.
        
           | peyton wrote:
           | You're saying SVB should've been designated "too big to
           | fail?"
        
             | DANmode wrote:
             | Other way around.
        
         | drdec wrote:
         | > Yellen has just broadcast that FDIC insurance is essentially
         | unlimited, as long as you can threaten wider disruption to the
         | economy.
         | 
         | No offense, but I thought we all learned the principle
         | underlying this in 2008.
        
         | mixdup wrote:
         | Well, paying for it by a special assessment on banks means the
         | banks aren't going to get a free ride. They, as a group, have
         | to get their shit together otherwise they will pay dearly
        
           | hnburnsy wrote:
           | Banks won't pay employees (lower salaries or lower
           | increases), shareholders (lower share price or dividends)
           | and/or customers (higher fees or less interest) will.
        
           | saurik wrote:
           | I _think_ (but am honestly not 100% sure here) that the
           | argument is if other banks are going to have to pay for SVB
           | being greedy, it is in some sense punishing banks for not
           | being greedy enough; as while, sure, the SVB investors are
           | getting hit: 1) a lot of them already made a lot of money
           | years ago (and potentially exited), 2) many of the executives
           | apparently literally sold out last month, and 3) they were
           | hoarding a lot of deposits that other banks couldn 't get
           | because they weren't being risky enough. But so like, saying
           | banks are paying dearly for this is strange, as it is the
           | wrong banks... and, by extension, the customers at those
           | banks, who are in turn making decisions about what bank to
           | use in the future.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | "They" as a group then reduce the interest rates they can pay
           | their depositors because they have extra costs to pay for
           | SVB's depositors gains.
        
             | hypothesis wrote:
             | This. "Backstop" thing is to prevent systemic collapse, but
             | otherwise it will spread the losses to other people who
             | "did nothing wrong". This is really shaping up as bad
             | lesson here for wrongdoers.
        
         | consumer451 wrote:
         | As mentioned in other threads here, Germany and the UK have
         | operated like this in the past as well.
         | 
         | If it's not a loss to the tax payers, then it seems like good
         | governance to me.
        
         | patientplatypus wrote:
         | I was reading this and came across "No losses associated with
         | the resolution of Silicon Valley Bank will be borne by the
         | taxpayer."
         | 
         | What does this "special assessment on banks" mean in practice?
         | Do they just go to all the bulge bracket banks and demand that
         | they buy the outdated Treasuries at a loss? How does this work?
        
         | JamisonM wrote:
         | THEY ARE NOT IN A TOUGH SPOT!!!!
         | 
         | They know (and it is obvious) that all deposits are going to be
         | fine without any extra funds, wacko VC's and nutjob politicians
         | are stoking the sort of lames that might cause a contagion so
         | they are forced to make statements like this.
         | 
         | The fact that the statement is so milquetoast is certainly on
         | them, but being uber-conservative in your promises is generally
         | a failing/asset for bank regulators.
        
         | beebmam wrote:
         | How do you square this statement of yours:
         | 
         | > Yellen has just broadcast that FDIC insurance is essentially
         | unlimited, as long as you can threaten wider disruption to the
         | economy.
         | 
         | with this quote from the Treasury Dept statement?
         | 
         | > "No losses associated with the resolution of Silicon Valley
         | Bank will be borne by the taxpayer."
        
           | unethical_ban wrote:
           | "Any losses to the Deposit Insurance Fund to support
           | uninsured depositors will be recovered by a special
           | assessment on banks, as required by law."
           | 
           | The fungibility of money aside, my personal taxes will not
           | pay for this.
        
           | toughlover917 wrote:
           | EXACTLY! This will be born by the taxpayer. What were all the
           | VCs f*cking thinking concentrating all their portfolio
           | companies in one financial institution? This was terrible
           | decision making on their part (and by the portfolio
           | companies). Why does this all of a sudden become a taxpayer
           | liability? Because All-In bros got on Twitter and started
           | spamming people?
        
             | notfromhere wrote:
             | FDIC gets its money by a fee charged to banks. Tax money
             | isn't going into this
        
         | roflyear wrote:
         | Perfect policy doesn't exist. I prefer this to hard line
         | actions that cause massive harm because it's impossible to
         | account for all situations.
        
         | vishal0123 wrote:
         | > Thus, on one hand, I'm glad they're doing this, as it should
         | help prevent wider bank runs
         | 
         | Could you expand? My first thought was that the bank who is in
         | verge of crisis could tip over with additional burden.
        
         | pmorici wrote:
         | Because a major component of this is human nature causing bank
         | runs they are betting that by doing this upfront it will be
         | cheaper than not doing it and risking a high number of similar
         | bank runs in the coming month as word spreads it isn't safe to
         | keep money over the insurance limit in banks because of the
         | unrealized loses on bonds.
        
           | luckylion wrote:
           | At the same time, they've essentially raised the insurance
           | limit to infinity. Depositors will be made whole, and if they
           | aren't the next time something happens, they'll need some
           | very good arguments for why the 9th largest bank is now also
           | too big too fail but e.g. the 11th largest isn't.
        
         | swatcoder wrote:
         | My read is that they see the shortage at SVB as relatively
         | small and that they may be closing some marginal banks like
         | Signature ahead of true insolvency/illiquidity to both protect
         | depositors and minimize reactionary withdrawals across the
         | broader market.
         | 
         | And it sounds like they have the authority to just do this on a
         | Sunday, so it doesn't sound like any rules being changed.
         | 
         | If I was a banker with a marginal portfolio, I wouldn't be
         | encouraged by this. Depositors are making it out, but banks are
         | being aggressively shuttered to make that happen.
        
         | siavosh wrote:
         | I view it kind of like parenting. Depending on what kind of kid
         | you've raised you may not want to signal to them that no matter
         | what you'll financially bail them out. Hoping they'll make the
         | right choices.
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | This probably sealed the deal:
         | 
         | > We are also announcing a similar systemic risk exception for
         | Signature Bank, New York, New York, which was closed today by
         | its state chartering authority.
         | 
         | Two closures in three days is a sign that you have to take this
         | very seriously.
        
           | radicaldreamer wrote:
           | This is going to put every regional bank on the map for short
           | sellers as equity holders are being wiped out in these cases
           | without depositors being affected. Why would anyone invest in
           | any regional bank with the risk of a equity wipeout day to
           | day?
        
             | swatcoder wrote:
             | > Why would anyone invest in any regional bank with the
             | risk of a equity wipeout day to day?
             | 
             | Because some have better books and management than others
             | and will be underpriced because of reactionary selloffs
             | like you describe?
        
             | tedivm wrote:
             | They're also taking action to prevent this kind of thing
             | from happening again-
             | 
             | > The Fed facility will offer loans of up to one year to
             | banks, saving associations, credit unions and other
             | institutions. Those taking advantage of the facility will
             | be asked to pledge high-quality collateral such as
             | Treasurys, agency debt and mortgage-backed securities.
             | 
             | > "This action will bolster the capacity of the banking
             | system to safeguard deposits and ensure the ongoing
             | provision of money and credit to the economy," the Fed said
             | in a statement. "The Federal Reserve is prepared to address
             | any liquidity pressures that may arise."
             | 
             | https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/12/regulators-unveil-plan-to-
             | st...
        
               | radicaldreamer wrote:
               | Yet signature bank was shut overnight?
               | 
               | Not sure a new $25 billion facility matters when outflows
               | can hit that much in a couple of hours.
        
             | FormerBandmate wrote:
             | At the same time, why would the bank runs continue? AFAIK,
             | this was sparked by Silvergate's slow motion collapse
             | climaxing on Wednesday, and the infinite FDIC threshold
             | makes more bank runs pointless and self defeating
        
             | 0xB31B1B wrote:
             | people aren't going to pull their money out now that the
             | deposits are essentially guaranteed, that is the point.
             | Business can go on as usual.
        
         | ahepp wrote:
         | Does this statement reflect any shift in policy?
         | 
         | Haven't depositors always been first on the list to get paid,
         | even their uninsured deposits? I don't know if charging a
         | special assessment to member banks is standard operating
         | procedure, but that doesn't sound like government intervention.
         | It just sounds like reasonable operation of the FDIC.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | mgraczyk wrote:
         | In cases where you can't predict the future appropriately,
         | sometimes it's better to make prudent decisions that help
         | everyone instead of attempting to punish the sinful.
         | 
         | Keep in mind that bank shareholders and senior management are
         | going to get wiped out and fired.
        
           | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
           | I mostly agree with this, but I feel like the past 25 years
           | or so, ever since "the Greenspan put", has just gone more and
           | more in the direction of telling people that they don't need
           | to worry about doing adequate risk assessments, because if
           | you have powerful people that yell loud enough, and you can
           | cause enough damage, that Washington will come to the rescue.
           | Eventually, I just don't see this ending well.
           | 
           | As someone who is naturally risk averse, I feel like a
           | sucker. I was having a conversation in a separate thread
           | where someone remarked "How can you expect startup companies
           | to spread their deposits across multiple banks?" Besides the
           | fact that there are tons of account structures _specifically
           | set up to do that_ , as an individual, _I_ know what these
           | insurance limits are and have moved assets around accordingly
           | (for me, FDIC limits weren 't relevant but SIPC limits were).
           | 
           | How much time I wasted. I should have just gone with a
           | powerful enough institution that I knew would get bailed out
           | if they ever failed. I certainly won't waste my time doing
           | this again, which is probably not the follow-on effect that
           | the feds want.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | hypothesis wrote:
           | >senior management are going to get wiped out and fired
           | 
           | Wasn't one of executives working at Lehman Brothers or some
           | such before? This is just failing upwards and doing same
           | thing.
        
           | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
           | "Punishing the sinful" isn't about morals, it's about
           | incentives, and ensuring a level playing field where sinning
           | doesn't improve your long-term competitiveness.
           | 
           | Will senior management have to return their 2021 performance
           | bonuses? If not, successful sinning is just a matter of
           | ensuring you cash out early.
        
             | mgraczyk wrote:
             | Who are you trying to disincentivize? How would it dissuade
             | the bank's management if depositors took a haircut? What
             | behavior do you think punishing depositors would prevent?
             | Do you think depositors should hire an accountant and
             | economist to review their bank's balance sheet every
             | quarter?
        
               | Uvix wrote:
               | If they have more than $250K in the one institution: yes,
               | they should.
               | 
               | Better yet would be spreading their deposits around, but
               | if they don't want to do that, they should take the
               | necessary steps to evaluate the risk appropriately.
        
               | mgraczyk wrote:
               | Ok but that's a bad policy that makes no sense and I'm
               | glad the fed, Treasury, and FDIC are stepping in to
               | change it. Sad that congress hasn't done anything over
               | the past few years, but better the problem be solved than
               | letting faith in our financial system collapse.
        
           | moffkalast wrote:
           | You mean those executives that sold their entire share of the
           | bank weeks before, ending up with with fat stacks and
           | completely unaffected?
           | 
           | Yeah I kinda doubt they'll get what's coming to them
           | unfortunately. Insider trading's only a crime when it's poor
           | people doing it.
        
             | DANmode wrote:
             | Not entire, but enough to raise eyebrows, IIRC
        
             | mgraczyk wrote:
             | Do you think punishing depositors would disincentivize
             | those executives?
             | 
             | And do you have any examples of poor people being charged
             | with insider trading? Every case I have seen is rich people
             | trading.
        
       | zamfi wrote:
       | Wow, here's the real news:
       | 
       | > Any losses to the Deposit Insurance Fund to support uninsured
       | depositors will be recovered by a special assessment on banks, as
       | required by law.
       | 
       | Note the _uninsured depositors_ clause in there -- FDIC  &co seem
       | to have acted unilaterally to extend deposit insurance beyond the
       | 250k and to the full amounts of any deposit account.
       | 
       | And they are charging the _banks_ for it.
       | 
       | If this doesn't stop a run on the banks, nothing will, frankly.
        
         | chejazi wrote:
         | And yet, socializing any potential losses across banks (as
         | opposed to homeowners, back in 2008) feels like the appropriate
         | move.
        
         | MuffinFlavored wrote:
         | > Shareholders and certain unsecured debtholders will not be
         | protected. Senior management has also been removed.
         | 
         | how do you interpret this part? what is an example of somebody
         | who would be an unsecured debtholder? as in somebody with a
         | stake in SVB the buisness?
         | 
         | https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/SIVB/
        
           | loeg wrote:
           | Yeah, someone who bought SVB's corporate bonds.
        
           | ummonk wrote:
           | Yeah it's an investor who invested in a debt instrument
           | offered by the bank. So CD holders will be made whole but
           | holders of any corporate bonds won't.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | unyttigfjelltol wrote:
         | This round of bank failures was special because the debt held
         | by these banks lost value because there is better stuff on the
         | market, not because there was anything intrinsically
         | uncollectable about the original debt. In fact, the debt
         | probably is pretty similar to stuff held by everyone else in
         | this ecosystem. This provides flexibility to meet the urgency
         | of the situation, and FDIC, Fed, Treasury are simply saying "we
         | know what the stuff is worth and there is enough money in the
         | pot to make all depositors hole." "No more bank runs at this
         | time please."
        
       | dzink wrote:
       | So 3 out of 7 Circle USDC bank partners failed in a week.
       | 
       | https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2023/03/10/scrutiny-falls-o...
        
       | 323 wrote:
       | All bank deposits should be guaranteed by the state.
       | 
       | Just like tap water is guaranteed to be drinkable, ... Bank
       | accounts are the basis of many things.
        
         | coffeebeqn wrote:
         | Yeah as long as the banks hold actually valuable things- SVB
         | had treasury bonds- no reason the federal government can't
         | treat those as cash. I mean it's their own issued assets!
        
         | NotACop182 wrote:
         | Maybe banks shouldn't be able to place bets with depositor
         | funds.
        
       | fossuser wrote:
       | Probably the best possible outcome.
       | 
       | Protect depositors, allow stock holders to get wiped, prevent a
       | cascade of runs from fear.
        
       | balozi wrote:
       | So, is this a bailout, that we are definitely absolutely not
       | calling a bailout?
        
         | baal80spam wrote:
         | Yup, and we can expect a movie in a few years.
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | > As with the resolution of Silicon Valley Bank, no losses will
         | be borne by the taxpayer.
         | 
         | > Shareholders and certain unsecured debtholders will not be
         | protected. Senior management has also been removed.
        
           | nostromo wrote:
           | It's a bailout with the costs borne by other banks.
           | 
           | And those costs will be paid by anyone with a bank account.
        
         | avalys wrote:
         | It's not a bailout. Silicon Valley Bank will cease operating,
         | the shareholders get zero, anyone who loaned them money likely
         | gets zero, the executives have been fired, the employees will
         | all be laid off within two months.
         | 
         | The point of this action is to ensure that Silicon Valley
         | Bank's customers, however, will not be harmed by doing business
         | with a regulated major bank.
        
       | kizer wrote:
       | Let's just not make this a habit!
        
       | belter wrote:
       | "...Any losses to the Deposit Insurance Fund to support uninsured
       | depositors will be recovered by a special assessment on banks, as
       | required by law..."
       | 
       | Is this what passes for a FED press release? Which law? Clear as
       | mud. Did the Fed just established an infinite deposit insurance
       | coverage in the US?
        
         | spdustin wrote:
         | 12 U.S.C. 1817(b)(5) (starting on the bottom right of the page
         | numbered 980, page 5 of this PDF [0])
         | 
         | [0]:
         | https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2021-title12/pdf/...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | ecommerceguy wrote:
       | I'm just curious, who was running the investment / risk team at
       | SVB and why should they get a pass for doing such a terrible job?
        
         | mgraczyk wrote:
         | They don't, they got fired already.
        
         | TigeriusKirk wrote:
         | They've been fired and their bank has been shut down.
         | 
         | Not sure how they're getting a pass.
        
           | spencerflem wrote:
           | because they're not losing any money. we all are
           | (collectively) by bailing them out
        
         | askl56 wrote:
         | From the UK branch which also is in severe trouble[0]
         | 
         | Jay Ersapah, the boss of Financial Risk Management at SVB's UK
         | branch, launched initiatives such as the company's first month-
         | long Pride campaign and a new blog emphasizing mental health
         | awareness for LGBTQ+ youth.
         | 
         | "The phrase 'you can't be what you can't see' resonates with
         | me,'" Ersapah was quoted as saying on the company website.
         | 
         | "As a queer person of color and a first-generation immigrant
         | from a working-class background, there were not many role
         | models for me to 'see' growing up."
         | 
         | Her efforts as the company's European LGBTQIA+ Employee
         | Resource Group co-chair earned her a spot on SVB's "outstanding
         | LGBT+ Role Model Lists 2022," a list shared in a company post
         | just four months before the bank was shut down by federal
         | authorities over liquidity fears.
         | 
         | [0] https://nypost.com/2023/03/11/silicon-valley-bank-pushed-
         | wok...
        
           | piperswe wrote:
           | I'm not sure how relevant this is to the topic at hand.
        
         | AmVess wrote:
         | The entire c-suite were running things at Lehman and DB and
         | flew those into the ground, too.
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | Apparently they had no Chief Risk Officer for much of the last
         | year: https://fortune.com/2023/03/10/silicon-valley-bank-chief-
         | ris...
        
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