[HN Gopher] Brex Devalues Rewards
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       Brex Devalues Rewards
        
       Author : lxm
       Score  : 111 points
       Date   : 2023-03-12 15:23 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (awardwallet.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (awardwallet.com)
        
       | capableweb wrote:
       | Two days after "Emergency bridge loan for SVB customers" offered
       | by Brex: https://www.brex.com/svb-emergency-line -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35102196
       | 
       | ~8 months after "[Brex will] no longer offer services to the
       | small business market" - https://www.brex.com/support/why-am-i-
       | no-longer-qualified-to... -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31772211
       | 
       | Further context, Brex is a YC company (Winter 2017), their launch
       | post is here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17418813
       | "Launch HN: Brex (YC W17) - Corporate Credit Card for Startups" |
       | 183 points | June 28, 2018 | 126 comments
        
       | kvee wrote:
       | So what's the best thing to do with lots of Brex rewards now?
        
       | cj wrote:
       | FWIW - this is extremely common among other credit card point
       | systems. Including airline miles, etc.
       | 
       | Not sure if this is really news or if it's just another credit
       | card company doing what credit card companies do.
        
         | tempsy wrote:
         | no it isn't. my chase, amex, cap 1 points transfers to the
         | exact same airlines as Brex at 1:1 ratio and always has
         | 
         | the airlines and hotel programs _do_ change and devalue their
         | programs from time to time but not the credit cards that offers
         | transfers to these programs
        
           | throwaheyy wrote:
           | Capital One actually got _better_ -- they used to be 2:1.5
           | before improving to 1:1, as well as adding more transfer
           | options.
        
         | CPLX wrote:
         | It's not really.
         | 
         | They do devaluations no question about that. But a _zero
         | notice_ change in the ratio of transfer points would be unusual
         | and definitely cause a lot of screaming.
         | 
         | It's not an ethical thing to do. If you tell me I can do X that
         | helps you and then you'll give me Y you can't just change that.
         | 
         | Devaluing with a little notice is a different thing entirely.
         | Even short notice is dubious but defensible.
         | 
         | This not so much. Of course the only thing it will do is cause
         | people never to trust their rewards programs, giving them
         | further rationale to ditch them.
        
       | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
       | The name is too similar to Brexit. Too confusing. Why would they
       | choose such a name?
        
       | a13n wrote:
       | Welp time to switch corporate credit card providers.
        
       | magold wrote:
       | With Ramp, cashback is the only reward option, no gimmicks
       | subject to devaluation. Ramp offers fixed 1.5% cashback on
       | statement balances, and there's no spend requirement before it
       | kicks in. Much better way to go.
        
         | aftbit wrote:
         | I hope Ramp is ready for the massive influx in signups that
         | this will result in. We're considering moving our spend
         | entirely to them because of this change.
        
       | fairity wrote:
       | If I'm understanding this correctly, they're only devaluing
       | points when you redeem them for cash or transfer them to another
       | points system. In so doing, they're effectively creating lock-in
       | for their own points redemption programs.
       | 
       | The cynical part of me wonders if they timed this change to
       | coincide with the SVB debacle in the hopes that the negative PR
       | would be drowned out.
        
         | itake wrote:
         | Every time I've used a platform OTA, the prices were way higher
         | and less choices (even with the point discount) than I could
         | purchase on another OTA.
         | 
         | I never considered platform OTAs a reasonable option.
        
           | sanj wrote:
           | They're all just white-labeled Expedia.
        
             | slater wrote:
             | Or BDC
        
           | CobaltFire wrote:
           | I used AMEX via ANA transfer to get over $0.20/point value on
           | a pair of business class tickets from West Coast US to Japan
           | this last year.
           | 
           | I'd say that was good value.
        
             | ValentineC wrote:
             | > _I used AMEX via ANA transfer to get over $0.20 /point
             | value on a pair of business class tickets from West Coast
             | US to Japan this last year._
             | 
             | Would you have paid anything close to the cash price
             | though?
             | 
             | If not, the $0.20/point value seems to be more of an
             | arbitrary number often abused by bloggers.
        
               | CobaltFire wrote:
               | I probably would have bought the $1250 tickets instead of
               | the $5k tickets, but we certainly appreciated the
               | upgrade.
               | 
               | It's what I have the cards for, after all.
        
             | scarface74 wrote:
             | As someone who has an idea about transfer partners.
             | 
             | There is a huge difference between being able to book a
             | flight on a random day from a random place to a random
             | destination and just choose to pay with miles like I can do
             | on any random Delta domestic flight for 1.3 - 1.5 cpp and
             | having to deal with partners and waiting for award flights
             | to open up and then only on certain days and from certain
             | cities.
        
               | CobaltFire wrote:
               | This was an arbitrary date and the transfer took less
               | than 30 minutes.
               | 
               | It was my first time using it and it was about as
               | painless as I could have hoped for.
               | 
               | I will say that we mostly only fly to a couple places and
               | we mostly fly ANA, so we are an edge case.
        
           | CPLX wrote:
           | There are good ones. Chase Sapphire is an example, and I
           | think people like Amex too though I don't use it.
        
             | mvid wrote:
             | Correct. Chase and Amex use the prices from the airline.
             | They aren't as good as the scammy aggregators, which try to
             | upsell you further in the purchase process or tell you the
             | price is no longer available
        
               | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
               | Don't they have more blackout dates than the airlines?
        
               | atdrummond wrote:
               | For fare sales or awards?
               | 
               | If anything, I find it is the opposite. The US Big 3 have
               | very little inventory open - and what is open is super
               | expensive. (Let's say $10k worth of airline miles for
               | sake of argument.)
               | 
               | You're better off using CC points for tickets through the
               | card's OTA where you can get the above $10k itinerary for
               | $2k worth of points - and since the value per point is
               | known and fixed, this price is never a surprise.
        
             | scarface74 wrote:
             | There are no good travel portals. If you need to change
             | anything or if there are any issues, going through a portal
             | is alway a pain compared to booking directly.
             | 
             | Amex in particular for domestic flights have Delta and
             | JetBlue as a partner. You get much better value by
             | transferring to one of those two than booking through a
             | portal.
             | 
             | You will only get 1 cent per point by using the portal. You
             | can routinely get 1.2 - 1.5 cents per point for Skymiles
        
         | CPLX wrote:
         | Yes that's the consensus. It was a tool to drive new accounts
         | and now they don't need that tool.
         | 
         | The fact that it's wildly unethical to do it this way without
         | notice is something I guess they feel isn't important to them.
         | 
         | Not a good look for someone in the financial services business.
         | 
         | I was a client up until last year but I closed my account
         | because they seemed shady.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | > The cynical part of me wonders if they timed this change to
         | coincide with the SVB debacle in the hopes that the negative PR
         | would be drowned out.
         | 
         | Being in the news for _any_ reason is the last thing a bank
         | wants right now. With startups and the public so much on edge,
         | a simple  "omg look at this, Brex is in trouble" tweet can be
         | enough to cause them serious harm.
         | 
         | My guess is the exact opposite - the announcement was pre-
         | planned and they went ahead with it, but some middle manager is
         | going to be getting an earful for not delaying it until the
         | sector is out of the woods.
        
           | fairity wrote:
           | Brex isn't a bank. They partner with a dozen or so banks
           | including JPMorgan (https://www.brex.com/legal/brex-cash-
           | partner-banks).
           | 
           | And, it's clear keeping out of the news was not their
           | strategy this weekend bc the CEO has voluntarily been making
           | public statements in a successful attempt to drive account
           | signups.
        
             | paxys wrote:
             | Tweeting "we will help startups affected by SVB" is very
             | different from announcing major policy changes in your own
             | operations.
        
           | tempsy wrote:
           | there was no announcement it was unannounced
           | 
           | generally you do not devalue a program without at least a few
           | weeks or months of notice.
           | 
           | very anti customer and not surprised if it leaves bad taste
           | for existing customers. that alone leads me to think it was
           | an immediate reaction to a significant inflow of deposits and
           | new business. these rewards programs are extremely expensive
           | to run.
        
           | btown wrote:
           | There's a third possibility: "get our rewards terms stable
           | and sustainable _before_ we have a massive influx in new
           | accounts so we don 't shock the new accounts by clawing
           | things back any time soon."
           | 
           | I have a feeling Brex was quite prepared for this whole thing
           | to play out. With the degree of polish on
           | https://www.brex.com/svb-emergency-line, and the ability to
           | double in a single weekend the number of banks they spread
           | deposits into... whether it was simply because their own
           | analysts saw this happening at some point and had a proactive
           | play-by-play of what to do, or something more coordinated
           | with the VCs advising their companies to move their funds to
           | Brex, is something that I'm sure will be of interest to many
           | in the industry.
        
             | bushbaba wrote:
             | Would not be surprising if Brex had insider information
             | from connections/advisors who were executives at SVB.
        
         | drstewart wrote:
         | You think they planned, executed, and released this change in
         | under 48 hours, mostly over a weekend?
        
           | mateo- wrote:
           | based on headlines, it looks like they've been working all
           | weekend
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | teaearlgraycold wrote:
           | You know it's easy to have a change staged and only pull the
           | trigger at the right moment, right?
        
             | drstewart wrote:
             | So they had the change staged and were waiting on the off
             | chance a bank collapsed?
        
               | teaearlgraycold wrote:
               | Waiting for any big news. Maybe waiting for a specific
               | known event in the future but pulled the trigger early.
               | 
               | Or it's just a coincidence.
        
           | throwaheyy wrote:
           | Yes. It would just be a constant in the code somewhere.
        
         | tempsy wrote:
         | ...how else are you supposed to use your rewards outside of
         | cash redemption or airline transfer
         | 
         | airline transfer is generally the best ROI way to use credit
         | card points so this is a massive unannounced devaluation by any
         | measure
        
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       (page generated 2023-03-12 23:01 UTC)