[HN Gopher] Hype on Hacker News and Silicon Valley (2016)
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Hype on Hacker News and Silicon Valley (2016)
Author : Edmond
Score : 63 points
Date : 2023-03-11 16:47 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (blog.codesolvent.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (blog.codesolvent.com)
| tambourine_man wrote:
| The Mac was Insanely Great(tm) in 1984. It's nothing new.
| sebastien_b wrote:
| Just goes to show how long it's been going on. SJ was just one
| of the early "pioneers" of this.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| Q: How many Northern Californians does it take to change a
| lightbulb?
|
| A: Hella!!!
|
| Q: How many Southern Californians does it take to change a
| lightbulb?
|
| A: Totally!!!
|
| https://escholarship.org/uc/item/6492j904
|
| http://people.duke.edu/~eec10/hellanorcal.pdf
|
| Hella Nor Cal or Totally So Cal?: The Perceptual Dialectology of
| California
|
| Mary Bucholtz, Nancy Bermudez, Victor Fung, Lisa Edwards and
| Rosalva Vargas. Journal of English Linguistics 2007; 35; 325.
| DOI: 10.1177/0075424207307780
|
| >Abstract
|
| >This study provides the first detailed account of perceptual
| dialectology within California (as well as one of the first
| accounts of perceptual dialectology within any single state).
| Quantitative analysis of a map-labeling task carried out in
| Southern California reveals that California's most salient
| linguistic boundary is between the northern and southern regions
| of the state. Whereas studies of the perceptual dialectology of
| the United States as a whole have focused almost exclusively on
| regional dialect differences, respondents associated particular
| regions of California less with distinctive dialects than with
| differences in language (English versus Spanish), slang use, and
| social groups. The diverse socio linguistic situation of
| California is reflected in the emphasis both on highly salient
| social groups thought to be stereotypical of California by
| residents and nonresidents alike (e.g., surfers) and on groups
| that, though prominent in the cultural landscape of the state,
| remain largely unrecognized by outsiders (e.g., hicks).
|
| Extra credit question:
|
| Can you locate the isogloss designating the "101" / "The 101"
| line?
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isogloss
|
| The Californians:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIklKPzND20
| DrewADesign wrote:
| Er... maybe I'm missing something but I need to see more
| evidence. I searched for these adverbs on several major
| newspapers' websites: sure, there might be one or two newly
| fashionable phrases, but this usage pattern isn't new. Unless I'm
| missing something, I think the author is pointing out a pretty
| normal thing that most people don't notice and attributing it to
| something that let's people feel smug. That's a great way to
| generate hype around your blog, though.
| jonahx wrote:
| This is nothing more than the kind of writing that people have
| complained about since Orwell and Hemingway, and probably long
| before.
|
| HN and SV are not special offenders here. It's just good old-
| fashioned over-writing. You see it everwhere.
| vlunkr wrote:
| It should be compared with other comment sections, not
| newspapers. I agree though, this is a weird take.
| DrewADesign wrote:
| > It should be compared with other comment sections, not
| newspapers.
|
| Not sure why though. The author is using HN as a proxy for
| SV, generally-- not just talking about a trend on HN. (Which
| is a dubious conclusion by itself.) He's saying this usage
| makes the writing style a) peculiar, b) a new trend, c)
| intended to unnecessarily convey hype, d) specific to SV
| culture, and e) something 'no decent writer' would do. This
| style was used consistently in national, prestigious non-SV
| media for the past few decades so it's a) not peculiar, b)
| not SV-specific, c) not new, and d) not specific to bad
| writers. I doubt it's used solely to unnecessarily convey
| hype but I didn't dig that far into the newspaper examples.
| oxfordmale wrote:
| You really want to read the following comment!!! I have years
| of experience working in the start-up industry and can give you
| life-changing insights. If you follow my 3 simple tips, you
| will become a millionaire within a year!!!
|
| Okay, I best stop here before I end up on the
| /HackerNewLunatics on Reddit. The problem is that we live in an
| age with a surplus of information. If you want people to read
| your article or blog rather than the million others on the same
| topic, you must somehow lure them in. "I am a boring person
| with a boring career, please read my article" doesn't quite
| tend to cut it anymore. This results in the word hyperinflation
| you observe. As a result, finding good-quality articles on
| certain topics has become more challenging, and I suspect it
| will only get worse with ChatGPT-4 around the corner.
|
| I don't think this phenomenon is exclusive to Silicon Valley.
| If anything, Silicon Valley has calmed down somewhat. There
| seem to be fewer start-ups that provide a solution to a problem
| that doesn't exists (think Juicero)
| chinaman425 wrote:
| [dead]
| recuter wrote:
| > the desire to create emphasis when otherwise the point being
| made is prosaic has lead people in Silicon Valley to come up with
| this odd writing style where adverbs are deployed in ways that no
| decent writer would.
|
| Perfectly discromulent hyperbole has infected online discourse
| far beyond Silicon Valley. As well as subjective opinions being
| passed off as _obvious reality_. Your opinion, dumb and bad. My
| opinion smart and good.
|
| Call it techno dystopia Patrick Bateman type prose. ChatGPT bots
| can't come soon enough to wash it all away.
| hintymad wrote:
| > Massively
|
| The word massive, in the way tech people use it, is a real sore
| to the eyes. No matter how massive the word is meant to be, it is
| still a god damn weasel word.
| noobermin wrote:
| Some of the phrasing OP lists are awkward but it sounds a lot
| like they just don't like adverbs. A few of the examples I found
| fine, many just sounded awful, but few I thought were
| sufficiently something I'd associate solely with "hacker news"
| types.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| If you don't like adverbs, adjectives, superlatives, or
| emphasis, don't read any H. P. Lovecraft.
|
| _> The crowning abnormality, of course, was the condition of
| the bodies--men and dogs alike. They had all been in some
| terrible kind of conflict, and were torn and mangled in
| fiendish and altogether inexplicable ways. Death, so far as we
| could judge, had in each case come from strangulation or
| laceration. The dogs had evidently started the trouble, for the
| state of their ill-built corral bore witness to its forcible
| breakage from within. It had been set some distance from the
| camp because of the hatred of the animals for those hellish
| Archaean organisms, but the precaution seemed to have been
| taken in vain. When left alone in that monstrous wind behind
| flimsy walls of insufficient height they must have stampeded--
| whether from the wind itself, or from some subtle, increasing
| odour emitted by the nightmare specimens, one could not say.
| Those specimens, of course, had been covered with a tent-cloth;
| yet the low antarctic sun had beat steadily upon that cloth,
| and Lake had mentioned that solar heat tended to make the
| strangely sound and tough tissues of the things relax and
| expand. Perhaps the wind had whipped the cloth from over them,
| and jostled them about in such a way that their more pungent
| olfactory qualities became manifest despite their unbelievable
| antiquity._
|
| - From _The Mountains of Madness_
| wrs wrote:
| One of those is a well-known Douglas Adams quote that should not
| have been swept up in the adverbial filter.
| celaleddin wrote:
| Yeap, this one: "You just won't believe how vastly, hugely,
| mind-bogglingly big it is."
|
| I think he is a pretty decent writer, which may suggest that we
| need to take all those quotes within their context.
| starkparker wrote:
| Oh no!!!! Not adverbs!!!!!!!
| [deleted]
| renewiltord wrote:
| Haha there's definitely an exaggeration culture. Sometimes it
| amuses me. Other times I read about something on HN that's
| "incredibly dangerous" and it's just stuff people do every day.
| Animats wrote:
| We need to hear more of:
|
| - "failed to deliver"
|
| - "under performing the market"
|
| - "declining product quality"
|
| - "unacceptable performance"
|
| - "financially unsustainable"
|
| - "ongoing criminal enterprise"
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| - "distressingly low quality"
|
| - "dangerously interdependent"
| skilled wrote:
| The peculiar curiosity highlighted by the author has caused deep
| unsettling in my mind.
| doe88 wrote:
| Didn't agree with the article -at all-, but great linked song I
| didn't know ( _Hype-Nitis by Canibus_ ), great.
| AtlasBarfed wrote:
| Hype is what startups do. Because hype is valuation and the path
| to exit with $$$$.
|
| Let's look at what Musk does with "self driving" Teslas, a very
| impressive (I have watched the videos) but fundamentally flawed
| technology. I mean, not as flawed as say, commercial fusion (see:
| hype on here), personal aircraft (Moller for decades, but maybe a
| wee bit more plausible), etc.
|
| What amuses me is people dumping on Musk on here for using
| arguably LESS hype than I would say the average SV startup's CEO
| parrots. I get it, it's the classic fall guy "him not us" group
| psychology.
|
| Don't get me wrong, Musk definitely is somewhere in the "owes a
| lot of money for lying/overhyping" for self driving at this
| point. But it still was something that had tangible
| demonstrations, ongoing improvements, and juuuuuust enough
| success that you could see it miiiiiiiggghhhhtttt work. Someday.
|
| Let's look at Meta. Hahahahahahahaha the hype around their
| VR/whatever. Now THAT is some primo-grade bullshit hype, they
| couldn't even beat second life from 20 years ago.
|
| "well, our startup didn't defraud people of $15000 for full self
| driving that wasn't". Yeah, your startup just sells personal
| information to companies (and therefore, to private security
| firms/information central nexuses, and thus to both democratic
| (if we can call ourselves that) and very very nondemocratic
| states. Um, which is worse?
|
| So ... is the hype just a legitimate "vision" for the
| company/product? Or is it outright fraud and chatgpt wordsoup
| designed to target fat investment from the Saudis?
|
| Let the market decide, I guess, to some degree.
| indymike wrote:
| > Hype is what startups do. Because hype is valuation and the
| path to exit with $$$$.
|
| Hype is a short term drug and has a very rough landing.
|
| > So ... is the hype just a legitimate "vision" for the
| company/product? Or is it outright fraud
|
| This is the hard part of being a tech investor. It's also what
| motivates me as a founder. I don't want to sell or invest in
| hype. I want to make customers happy and my employees and
| investors wealthy because my customers are happy and paying. I
| might be naive, but growth to me is a symptom of doing it
| right, not just spending boxcars full of money on marketing and
| opinion shaping and then selling to some unfortunate private
| equity company before the whole thing falls apart.
| AtlasBarfed wrote:
| I dunno, Uber hasn't crashed yet. At some point, from a
| founder's perspective, you get so big that it doesn't matter
| if it crashes. I mean, how much have Uber's founders actually
| made? You know, assuming Uber isn't sustainable, things have
| been quiet on the doom and gloom for that.
|
| If your ride gets hitched to enough cash from influential
| people, your company gets cashed out (and you with it).
| They'll find a better sucker.
| simongray wrote:
| [citation needed]
| paulpauper wrote:
| This essay massively resonated with me, greatly
| Ensorceled wrote:
| For exceptionally great things it is crucially important that
| the intensity of the resonations match that overall immensity.
| citrusynapse wrote:
| I have astoundingly profound whiplash from reading your comment
| before reading the article, then coming back to your comment
| again.
| eep_social wrote:
| Truly impressive what happens when someone shares a really
| fresh new perspective.
| salamanderman wrote:
| I intensely agree, one thousand percent.
| tempodox wrote:
| Those phrases suffer heavily from intense adjectivism and
| raging adverbialitis.
| ravanhack45 wrote:
| Hi
| rchaud wrote:
| I can't say I've noticed this outside of a "tone" that HN
| comments tend to have.
|
| Unfortunately that tone is often something akin to "devil's
| advocate trying to write like Paul Graham and Steven Pinker".
| lost_tourist wrote:
| If you read any mainstream news sources or publications, you will
| see similar hyperbolic adverbs and adjectives. It's just modern
| writing. Lost all sense of subtle or the sublime and afraid of
| being "dry". It pleases the filthy masses, so it will continue.
| [deleted]
| KRAKRISMOTT wrote:
| Perhaps the former president could recruit a press secretary from
| this crowd.
| harshalizee wrote:
| OP forgot the new classic "unreasonably effective"
| rchaud wrote:
| By far one of the biggest offenders.
| kazinator wrote:
| The adverb there is actually meaningful, unlike something like
| "massively" or "immensely".
|
| It conveys the idea that something is effective to a degree
| that seems unjustifiable by reason.
|
| There is an idea out there, in the context of improving
| writing, that adverbs are useless; but it's not the case that
| no adverb ever plays a useful role in a sentence.
| lapcat wrote:
| (2016)
| donio wrote:
| (Updated 2023)
| gwern wrote:
| What a pity the 2016 version didn't include a list of things
| the author was certain had been overhyped and would fail.
| rchaud wrote:
| Is that necessary for anyone who's on HN? The article
| assumes the reader is already familiar with the site.
|
| Off the top of my head, things like voice search, Uber
| autonomous taxis, Tesla FSD, WeWork, NFTs, P2E crypto
| games, Web3.....these were hyped to the skies on HN. Even
| people that didn't believe the business model was viable,
| believed that they'd succeed anyway because of the
| influential people that put money into them.
|
| Read
| DonHopkins wrote:
| The hyperactive voice.
| fullshark wrote:
| I do this, I think we are all just bad writers, who developed a
| style from reading and writing on internet message boards for
| years.
| semicolon_storm wrote:
| It's not bad writing if it conveys the desired message to the
| target audience. Every big industry has a distinct prose &
| style of writing.
| boffinism wrote:
| there's nothing "bad" about phrases like "impressively easy" or
| "significantly larger". OP just has a weird phobia of utterly
| reasonable adverbs.
| criddell wrote:
| I think we probably all have our own sets of words and
| phrases we don't like.
|
| Mine are _learnings_ , _honestly_ , _content creator_ /
| _content consumer_ and verbed nouns of all sorts.
|
| The weird one for me is _honestly_. According to Google
| NGram, it 's been on the up upswing for the past 20 years or
| so.
| jnwatson wrote:
| "Utterly reasonable"
|
| Nice.
| navigate8310 wrote:
| I wanted to tell you an astonishingly successful pun, but my
| sense of humor is atrociously bad.
| CipherThrowaway wrote:
| Lame take. Especially given the author's own use of adverbs. "My
| superiority complex is superior to your superiority complex"
| inter-nerd contrarianism.
| boffinism wrote:
| Oh cool, so adverbs are banned now, are they?
| jmull wrote:
| Just the exceptionally unnecessary ones!
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