[HN Gopher] Audiences Grow Weary of Stories That Never End
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Audiences Grow Weary of Stories That Never End
Author : paulpauper
Score : 20 points
Date : 2023-03-10 19:37 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (tedgioia.substack.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (tedgioia.substack.com)
| thenoblesunfish wrote:
| The obvious solution is to wait until series are done before
| watching them, if lack of narrative closure upsets more than
| watching with everyone else excites you. E.g one of these days I
| might get around to The Wire or Breaking Bad, but probably not
| Lost or Game of Thrones or Twin Peaks, because I'm aware people
| were annoyed at how they ended. On the other hand I'm perfectly
| happy with seasons 1-3 of The Office or season 1 of Stranger
| things, or Season 1 of Severance even though it was a total life
| hanger, so it's not impossible to make something that's good even
| if it's not clear how long it'll run.
| [deleted]
| aaron695 wrote:
| > Would you start a novel, if you weren't allowed to read the
| final chapters? Would you play a video game, if there was no
| winning solution? Would you watch a movie if the last 15 minutes
| were missing? Would you go on a date if it ended after you picked
| up the restaurant tab?
|
| Yes. Of course.
|
| Video games are obvious. Many never end or are classically
| impossible (Prince of Persia)
|
| A practice date would be interesting, I assume paying Dutch
| unless it's a I pay and get to first base system.
|
| There's a few unfinished classic novels and TV pilots turned to
| movies I've watched.
|
| What sucks is the metaverse. This is Western comic book cultural
| at it's worse, a childish idea adapted by the media.
| StillBored wrote:
| The problem isn't shows that don't end, but ones that keep
| dragging out the 1-2 season plot line because it was popular
| (lost, stranger things, etc).
|
| I'm fine with a plot that is progressing and things are being
| answered (the expanse, b5, etc) or just a plain old serial like
| the original star trek or the simsons where each episode stands
| on its own. But these shows where the plot just never quite gets
| resolved because yet another thing happens to snatch it away at
| the last moment quickly become tiring. Or like stranger things
| the whole things is nice and complete with all the lose ends
| tied, and then oh, lets do season 2 because its our best show and
| we want the money. This BTW seems to have been most movies since
| ~2000s where everything is a sequel, prequel or comic universe
| movie. Its like hollywood has forgotten how to buy book rights
| that aren't themselves giant economic works already (harry potter
| anyone?).
| stuckinhell wrote:
| I agree.
|
| Stranger Things as a 1 season miniseries would have been the
| stuff of legends.
| thehappypm wrote:
| Stranger Things is the worst for this. The most recent season
| was terrific but it didn't even come close to finishing its
| story! Super frustrating to watch a "finale" and be left
| feeling like you're halfway through a movie
| mcdonje wrote:
| We need more limited series.
|
| A show should be ordered for a season or three with the
| understanding that it'll come to a creative conclusion at the end
| of the predefined period.
|
| The entire main arc for that 1-3 seasons should be known to all
| parties before contract negotiations.
|
| No cancellations; Just non-renewals.
|
| That way, every show has a creative conclusion.
| Larrikin wrote:
| More seasons are fine and can add to the story. Game of Thrones
| should have actually been a season longer, but the directors
| got greedy and wanted to wrap it up so they could move on to
| their new contracts (that thankfully evaporated after the
| disaster of the last couple seasons).
|
| Sitcom style shows are also perfectly fine being left open
| ended. It's kind of an annoyance that British and Japanese
| shows will spend time creating funny characters in an
| interesting environment and just end it in a season when there
| was plenty left to explore.
|
| But serial dramas should have an ending planned from the
| beginning and an early cancellation should have some kind of
| early exit clause to wrap the show in a limited number of
| episodes.
|
| The walking dead went from an intriguing story line to a
| complete waste of time when I read the show runner had no
| interest in exploring the origins of the outbreak or finding a
| cure, he just wanted multiple series to explore the outbreak in
| various parts of the world. Just a complete and total
| disrespect for the audiences time, since the thought of an
| ending wasn't even considered.
|
| It's also completely disrespectful when networks pull the plug
| early. There was so much hype around Westworld with multiple
| seasons that were building and then HBO cancelled it without
| the final season and took it off the service, so there isn't
| even the option to watch the nearly complete series.
| powersnail wrote:
| It's hard to find a long-lasting show that doesn't devolve in the
| later seasons.
|
| I remember binge watching _House MD_ in college, really liked the
| beginning, and felt disappointed as the characters grew
| increasingly comical and less nuanced in later seasons. It's
| still the same show, similar vibe, similar character if we view
| them as symbols of personality adjectives (the sarcastic are
| still sarcastic, the sympathetic still sympathetic), but somehow
| among those similarities, the subtleties died.
|
| At some point of the show, every angle of romance, mystery,
| character growth has been investigated, and none of them can come
| to a resolution, because, well, the show has to go on. How do you
| raise the stake---which is usually how you hook the audience---
| when they know nothing the character does will ever come to a
| conclusion, anything they become can be reverted in the _next
| season_? In fact, even the changes that have already happened in
| earlier seasons can be rolled back. I think this is why, in later
| seasons, a common complaint is that the writers are undoing
| everything good about the show in the beginning.
|
| Some shows sort of avert this by replacing the main character
| (e.g. _Doctor Who_) and effectively telling a different story in
| the same universe. Does it work? Maybe. But still, I've,
| generally speaking, grown quite reluctant to watch TV shows that
| are longer than 5 seasons since then.
| fatnoah wrote:
| > I remember binge watching _House MD_ in college, really liked
| the beginning, and felt disappointed as the characters grew
| increasingly comical and less nuanced in later seasons
|
| This was Friends for me. The character Joey was the "less
| smart" one of the group, but often wrong in clever ways, such
| as confusing "moot point" with "moo point". It's like a cow's
| opinion, it doesn't matter. He was right and wrong at the same
| time. In later seasons, he turned into what could possibly be
| described as the dumbest person alive.
|
| The other characters had similar transformations. The nuances
| becamse their defining characteristics. They became caricatures
| of themselves.
| [deleted]
| PaulHoule wrote:
| I think of _Columbo_ where the first two seasons are brilliant
| (freaking Steven Spielberg directed the first episode!) but it
| quickly goes downhill but goes on for decades. (Of course,
| _Columbo_ is almost impossible to binge watch because it is so
| formulaic. On the other hand, when I turn on the TV and catch
| it randomly on reruns I think ' _Columbo_ is such a great show
| '.)
| jandrese wrote:
| Colombo comes from an era before time shifting and on demand.
| The formula is so much easier to overlook when you're only
| watching one episode a week.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| _Columbo_ was unusual in that it aired much less frequently
| than once a week so the formulaic nature wasn't a problem.
|
| Today I sometimes enjoy watching off-brand OTA channels
| such as Comet and Charge and will tune in from time to time
| and get reintroduced to shows like _Quantum Leap_ ,
| _Farscape_ , and _Sliders_ and sometimes I will get into an
| appointment viewing habit but I am just as likely to by a
| box set or otherwise switch on on demand viewing. Columbo
| plays well in that world but who knows how long it will
| last.
| touisteur wrote:
| The 2 or 3 last seasons of House MD went off the rockers on the
| raising of stakes that you talk about, I felt. It was time to
| end it, but I wouldn't cut there.
| 7sigma wrote:
| The expanse should be a case study on how to adapt books and
| how to finish a series.
|
| It helped to have the authors of the books as producers and
| that they finished writing the books.
| andrewstuart wrote:
| I really hate stories that don't end and resolve the main story
| arcs.
|
| Clearly tv companies feel that if it cleanly ends then you won't
| come back for more. It's the opposite for me... if it does not
| cleanly end then I definitely won't be back for more.
| belter wrote:
| Get your hint Netflix...
| Arrath wrote:
| Netflix's problem is more that the intriguing series never get
| a chance to go on too long and get axed after one or two
| seasons. Longer running shows, like Stranger Things, are the
| outlier.
| deepfriedchokes wrote:
| [dead]
| PaulHoule wrote:
| I was apprehensive when I got to the end of _Foundation_ because
| I really wanted to see what happened next and didn 't know if it
| would be continued. I was happy to see they are planning another
| season. I'd contrast that to _Squid Game_ that I knew, when it
| started, was going to come to a satisfying conclusion.
| jdmtheNth wrote:
| Spurious excuses for the massive drops in viewership also seem
| never ending.
| pygar wrote:
| The link discusses shows that get cancelled early before a
| satisfactory resolution due to bad ratings. This is reasonable as
| usually they get cancelled because they are bad.
|
| The other side of this is shows that run too long due to the
| inertia of their initial success. I am now unwilling to start
| watching a popular a TV show because it won't end until it turns
| bad. This might be 10+ seasons and there is no prize for watching
| it all.
|
| I am fundamentally tired of being told stories. Nowadays I just
| stick to movies: The time investment is minimal, and if you are
| willing to read subtitles there is lot of them.
| EdgeExplorer wrote:
| For those who prefer a limited series, I recommend checking out
| the vast catalog of Chinese, Japanese, and Korean shows on Viki.
| The model of eternally-renewed-until-suddenly-canceled is not a
| global norm.
| a_e_k wrote:
| One of my favorite things about Babylon 5 was how it was planned
| out for exactly five seasons, with a beginning, middle, and end.
|
| Granted, the last season was a bit muffed since they'd had to
| bring the story to a closure at the end of season 4 when they
| thought it would be renewed. But still...
|
| I have a lot of respect for creatives who can plan out a work,
| and then actually carry through and walk away from it when it is
| complete.
| jandrese wrote:
| Having a the story mapped out before you start and being
| willing to say "no matter how well this does it's stopping
| here" makes for incredible content, but poor business. If you
| have only modest success you may be cut off in the middle and
| leave an unsatisfying conclusion. If you do really well you
| have to stop at the height of your success and the execs will
| be putting huge pressure on you to figure out how to continue
| somehow.
|
| Maybe HBO got it right with Game of Thrones? Have some
| incredible early seasons and then totally shit the bed later so
| nobody is clamoring for new content and the showrunners can
| move on to different projects. This kinda fails the audience
| test however.
|
| The media landscape is also a concern. I would never ever plan
| a 5 season story on Netflix for example. And to be fair, some
| of their best content is one and done. Russian Doll for example
| has a second season, but it's only barely connected with the
| first. It's basically an entirely new show that just happens to
| have the same actors.
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| Though the network's funding ambiguity caused season four to be
| compressed and season five to be past peek filler, that Babylon
| Five had a five season arc planned out from the beginning made it
| an enjoyable show to watch. But it's difficult to plan something
| out like that when there's a chance it will be terminated after
| two seasons and of course some people can't stand the thought of
| leaving money on the table so they want something open ended to
| keep shows going for as long as their ratings keep the bills
| paid. Can't imagine much reason to watch The Simpsons now other
| than habit and inertia.
| danieljlm wrote:
| This chimes. I've stopped watching tv series altogether now
| unless it's an old one that has already finished and someone has
| vouched for it to me.
|
| A story should have a beginning and a middle and an end but
| modern tv shows are either a beginning and a short middle and
| then nothing, or a beginning and long meandering middle and then
| highly unsatisfactory end as they try and fail to tidy up all of
| their loose threads.
|
| Now that I've given up on series and streaming is so fragmented
| I've downgraded and gone back to physical media. It's nice to be
| able to just buy a movie and watch it again.
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