[HN Gopher] Nvidia researchers setup an open source sensor netwo...
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       Nvidia researchers setup an open source sensor network on Antartica
        
       Author : wienke
       Score  : 66 points
       Date   : 2023-03-10 12:11 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.thethingsnetwork.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.thethingsnetwork.org)
        
       | deusum wrote:
       | NVIDIA would rather bring open source to Antarctica than Linux.
        
         | abudabi123 wrote:
         | http://www.emperorlinux.com/search/?q=nvidia
         | 
         | EmperorLinux Inc lists Dells, Thinkpads with Nvidia graphics
         | cards.
        
           | godelski wrote:
           | And Pop's main appeal is that Nvidia graphics cards (nearly)
           | "just work". But that's not what the parent is getting at.
        
         | KeplerBoy wrote:
         | Apparently not all penguins are equal.
        
       | detrites wrote:
       | *Antarctica
        
       | jmclnx wrote:
       | Very nice they are doing that, but you know what would be a real
       | altruism move ? Open up the source for Nvidia Chips so projects
       | like OpenBSD and the other BSDs can run on hardware from Nvidia.
        
         | freedomben wrote:
         | It seem self-defeating that they don't. If nvidia fully opened
         | up their driver, they would de-facto own the GPU market (at
         | least for ML, but probably gaming as well). Conversely if AMD
         | could get support into most of the ML libs, they could start
         | cleaning up.
        
           | godelski wrote:
           | > Conversely if AMD could get support into most of the ML
           | libs, they could start cleaning up.
           | 
           | This is happening, albeit slowly, fwiw. Pytorch has ROCm
           | support, but not great. AMD did win the exascale machine
           | contracts and have custom hardware in the machines that are
           | built. It does look like they've been using those contracts
           | to invest more into computational sciences/ML. I can only
           | hope that they continue at the pace they have in the consumer
           | market. Competition between AMD and Nvidia (and hopefully
           | Intel -- a pipe dream) can only be beneficial to us in the ML
           | community.
        
           | DigiDigiorno wrote:
           | They already own the data center gpu market, what are you
           | taking about?
           | 
           | Last I checked they already had monopoly evoking shares of
           | that market. Like 80+ or 90+ percent
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | There's a better chance of hell freezing over, but it would
           | certainly benefit users. From a economic standpoint though,
           | it's entirely unsurprising why they do this. CUDA _owns_ ,
           | and in the AI age it's hard to beat the parallelism Nvidia
           | offers. If Nvidia cedes their acceleration advantage, they're
           | leaving themselves open for attack. DirectX is a funny
           | example of this, still being closed-source despite a reverse-
           | engineered version existing with often better performance.
           | 
           | It would be nice if everyone writing UNIX-like drivers gave
           | away their source code, but then the books wouldn't balance.
           | It's a tale that's half a century old now.
        
         | deusum wrote:
         | NVIDIA on FreeBSD is better than ever, but Wayland is broken,
         | still, if my failed attempts are a fair measure.
        
         | dotnet00 wrote:
         | https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/nvidia-releases-open-sourc...
         | 
         | Coming up on a year since they've had source code available.
        
           | jmclnx wrote:
           | >NVIDIA is now publishing Linux GPU kernel modules as open
           | source with dual GPL/MIT license, starting with the R515
           | 
           | Seems only for a specific chip rev, does nothing for older
           | revs.
           | 
           | Also since it is a module, I presume just for Linux, does
           | nothing for OpenBSD (especially) and probably do nothing for
           | NetBSD. FYI, OpenBSD does not support kernel modules like
           | Linux does.
        
             | dotnet00 wrote:
             | It's open source, which was the point being referenced by
             | the post I replied to. The BSDs can use the code to guide
             | their own implementations, as they have done for various
             | other drivers.
             | 
             | Also, it supports everything Turing onwards, which, while
             | not ideal, does cover all the hardware they've made in the
             | past 4.5 years.
        
           | junon wrote:
           | For closed source blob adapters, which I suppose is
           | _something_. It will allow kernel developers to integrate
           | their drivers, without a really having the sources to the
           | driver itself. You still get a closed source blob.
        
             | dotnet00 wrote:
             | Even AMD has closed source blobs as firmware though?
        
               | junon wrote:
               | Not sure they have open source adapters though. Maybe
               | they do. But the big release from Nvidia last year was
               | that you can see and use the code that calls into their
               | blobs.
        
       | brink wrote:
       | Is this Nvidia's repentance for the crypto mining and price
       | gouging?
        
       | thewopr wrote:
       | Having been in technology, antarctic research, and remote
       | monitoring of environmental systems down there, my take: don't
       | read into this this too much.
       | 
       | This is mostly a PR piece, probably pushed by the university or
       | non-profit researchers involved. They are trying to use some sort
       | of partnership with NVIDIA (as loose as that partnership might
       | be) to draw attention and show they are having "Broader Impacts"
       | for their impact statement.
       | 
       | Most eco research is based on historical comparisons of
       | months/years/decades of data So the use of real-time/streaming
       | data down there is pretty limited. You can just as easily shove
       | the data into storage and have a researcher pick it up next time
       | they go down (often *much* easier as you don't have to worry
       | about powering comms systems).
       | 
       | Climate/weather data may be different, if only because some of
       | the data might go into current/real-time weather models. But even
       | there, it's probably a stretch (I know of very little work being
       | done with anything near real-time as far as data goes down
       | there).
        
         | earthscienceman wrote:
         | Hey @thewopr.
         | 
         | I'm actually working on real-time measurement transmission of
         | the climate parameters, though at the other pole in the Arctic.
         | I always imagined people working on such things were here on
         | HN.
         | 
         | This article is absolutely a PR/puff piece. This type of
         | transmission isn't novel, unique, or "AIoT"... using that
         | acronym for this is beyond hilarious, I'd challenge anyone on
         | the project to describe how AI is in any way relevant to the
         | project beyond NVIDIA PR blurbs. I've looked through the
         | research and the only thing I've found is a nebulous "we will
         | analyze the data with AI at some point". But! People have been
         | doing these sorts of measurements and transmitting them from
         | these sorts of places for... ever... basically. Also entirely
         | based on open source. The autonomous station I(we)'ve designed
         | uses a custom Linux box/SoC for low power data processing and
         | amalgamation and the results are transmitted in realtime back
         | here to the USA to be ingested by models, without a single chip
         | designed by NVIDIA. From places much more remote than a few kms
         | from a base in Antarctica, we had a station running in the
         | Arctic ice pack during winter. Not to add more criticism, but I
         | also always love how these puff pieces don't actually link to
         | the research of the people who put in the work on the
         | project[1].
         | 
         | As an aside, AI could actually very relevant/important for
         | these types of measurements. One idea I'm working to spin up:
         | 
         | Vertical profile retrievals of important atmospheric
         | measurements (cloud properties, and more) are extremely power
         | intensive and nearly impossible to do autonomously via
         | lidar/radar. However, there are many ways one could imagine
         | designing a low power implementation of those retrievals using
         | a combination of different sensors and a cleverly trained
         | algorithm to get at the parameters of interest.
         | 
         | Anyway, link/tell me about some of your remote monitoring. I'm
         | pretty disconnected from the south side of these things.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.uow.edu.au/media/2023/world-first-mosscam-and-
         | sm...
        
           | thewopr wrote:
           | My experiences were with the McMurdo Dry Valleys LTER program
           | [1]. They have (things may have changed) a number of sites
           | sending telemetry back to the states via the Iridium network.
           | Nothing too fancy. It worked. Biggest challenge really was
           | that iridium was slow and relatively high power (and somewhat
           | flaky deep in the valley where we were). I also had some
           | involvement with the NTL LTER program[4], but that type of
           | work has even easier telemetry constraints (these days, just
           | use a cell modem).
           | 
           | I totally agree with you on the "using a combination of
           | different sensors and a cleverly trained algorithm to get at
           | the parameters of interest". This is something not too far
           | from, in a way, how many sensors work already. They are
           | *proxies* of the actual thing being measured. From my world,
           | the s-can DOC sensor was always a good example, using in-situ
           | spectroscopy to estimate DOC concentration.
           | 
           | Crux of the challenge is "what is the parameter of interest"
           | and "can you come up with a way to estimate it with something
           | easily measured?
           | 
           | Because this is HN, I'll say there is another interesting
           | route possible. If you can change the economics of a
           | situation and decrease the cost of a basic sensor, then you
           | can often increase the volume of applicable uses. I was
           | tangentially involved with the development of the miniDOT
           | [3], which ended up being one of the first "inexpensive" (as
           | in less than $5k) dissolved oxygen sensor. It really changed
           | how people used them and increased the amount of DO sensing
           | by probably an order of magnitude.
           | 
           | [1]: https://mcm.lternet.edu/ [2]:
           | https://www.s-can.at/en/product/carbolyser-v3/ [3]:
           | https://www.pme.com/new-products/minidot-usb-oxygen-logger
           | [4]: https://lter.limnology.wisc.edu/
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | whitemary wrote:
       | > _SAEF (Securing Antarctica's Environmental Feature)_
       | 
       | What exactly is an "Environmental Feature?" I would think
       | Antarctica has multiple.
        
         | justinpowers wrote:
         | "Feature" can mean "physical beauty" as well as simply
         | "appearance" or "form", though all such are considered obsolete
         | usages.
        
         | nico wrote:
         | It's a typo, it should be "future" instead of "feature". Good
         | catch.
         | 
         | SAEFs website: https://arcsaef.com/
        
         | junon wrote:
         | "Securing Antarctica's Future [and] Environment" aka SAFE
         | ("and" being optional) would have been a bunch clearer, imo.
        
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       (page generated 2023-03-10 23:01 UTC)