[HN Gopher] Flux Keyboard
___________________________________________________________________
Flux Keyboard
Author : 1900-01-01
Score : 463 points
Date : 2023-03-09 17:15 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (fluxkeyboard.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (fluxkeyboard.com)
| spankalee wrote:
| If they could get the knobs to attach to the screen without metal
| contacts (maybe inductive power and alignment magnets?) and have
| a touch screen, this would make an incredible customizable music
| / midi controller. It would be a joy to make hybrid HW/SW
| interfaces for soft synths with that.
| roflyear wrote:
| looks awful for ergonomics :/
| inerte wrote:
| yeah, came here to say something similar. It looks super cool
| and the features, wow... but unfortunately when I don't use an
| ergonomic keyboard (my Microsoft Sculpt has been with me for 10
| years), pain starts pretty much instantly. If they ever release
| a more ergonomic version that would be interesting!
| tomtheelder wrote:
| No worse than any other standard keyboard that the overwhelming
| majority of people use.
| ahelwer wrote:
| Well, the bar is in hell. Nobody should be using flat slab
| keyboards. They are objectively terrible for your wrists.
| Absent space constraints like inclusion in a laptop this flat
| design is a nonstarter.
| mthomasmw wrote:
| Agree. Would be interested if horizontal rows. Still happy with
| my kinesis which I never look at.
| unxdfa wrote:
| Not a fan of the idea:
|
| 1. I don't look at a keyboard so there's not much point in making
| it look fancy.
|
| 2. I destroy keyboards in 12 months. Even good quality mechanical
| ones. I probably can't afford to own this.
|
| 3. It looks like bits are going to fall off it when I inevitably
| catch the edge of it moving from my mouse to my keyboard.
|
| 4. It doesn't have enough keys on it and the default positioned
| layout sucks.
|
| 5. It's got transparent bits. My backlit laptop keyboard already
| looks like a cat litter tray after a couple of weeks. This is
| going to require a lot of upkeep.
|
| I think the only keyboard I actually like at the moment is the
| Cherry Stream SX TKL. Costs $26, feels like an old ThinkPad, has
| all the right keys in the right place, if you break you won't
| cry, no bits fall off it when you shake the crap out, it doesn't
| look like a Christmas tree on acid or ever like a cat litter
| tray. I had 11 keyboards to get to that and it was the cheapest
| one. Ugh.
| 1-more wrote:
| > I destroy keyboards in 12 months. Even good quality
| mechanical ones.
|
| Wait how? How do they fail? This is interesting to me.
| bityard wrote:
| Same here, I don't think I've _ever_ destroyed a keyboard in
| my life. After about a decade on one, I just get tired of it
| and want to try something new.
|
| Right now my favorite is the wired Apple Magic keyboard with
| numpad. I bought my current one new on ebay during covid at a
| big of a premium because they stopped making them years ago
| and are NLA. I don't use a Mac so the layout is funky, but
| all of the standard-layout knock-offs are bluetooth-only,
| have poor reviews, or are staggeringly expensive.
| fire wrote:
| replaceable key "frame" had me hopeful, but no, there is no
| ortholinear support - only staggered layouts. Lame.
|
| this just seems to be a new attempt at the ol' Optimus Maximus
| jhanschoo wrote:
| Maybe maybe eventually? And perhaps it can be marketed as
| macropad-like? I'm hopeful but realistically there isn't much
| of a market for us folk.
| mhitza wrote:
| I like the swappable modules idea. If it would support Linux, and
| was hackable I miight consider it (no mention of open source).
| junon wrote:
| If this didn't support something like QMK I'd be shocked. They
| seem to know what will drive sales and the keyboard community
| will be huge on hacking. If they're tone deaf enough not to
| have that ability then.. well, we'll see.
| kensai wrote:
| Why should one get this and not Nemeio?
|
| https://www.nemeio.com/
| Terretta wrote:
| Always missing from keyboard-craft FAQs:
|
| - What are your plans for TouchID?
|
| I would spend the price of the custom keyboard _plus_ the price
| of an Apple keyboard to tear down, just to have that feature
| included. Offer a primary price point without it, add $149 for a
| TouchID "module", see what happens.
| shanebellone wrote:
| I'll definitely buy one. Very cool form factor.
| amelius wrote:
| Cool idea, but I try to not look at my keyboard ...
| nayuki wrote:
| Some other times this was tried:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard ,
| https://liliputing.com/the-poly-keyboard-uses-tiny-oled-disp... ,
| https://www.alphr.com/united-keys/united-keys-oled-display-k...
| [deleted]
| skyyler wrote:
| This looks like one big screen with transparent keys instead of
| a single small screen for each key like all the examples you
| linked.
|
| Should be much cheaper to produce, and cost is always the
| problem with projects like this.
| ahofmann wrote:
| Well, this keyboard will cost $300 to $450 :-(
| tremon wrote:
| That's still only 20-30% of the quoted price for the
| Optimus Maximus ($1500, IIRC).
| pdntspa wrote:
| I would really like it if these fancypants keyboards came in a
| layout other than the crunch-all-your-fingers-together-in-the-
| middle-for-extra-RSI design that the keyboard nerds seem to adore
| pnathan wrote:
| the 3 modern higher end keyboard companies that attend to
| ergonomic concerns are, afaik, - keyboard.io - kinesis -
| ergodox
|
| and then there's maltron keyboards, a bit older-school.
|
| I have a kinesis edge and a keyboard.io, I like the kinesis
| edge rgb variant. the keyboard.io is very hard for me.
| pdntspa wrote:
| keyboard.io keyboards look really uncomfortable for long-term
| use, what with that hard wood looking enclosure. Ergodox and
| kinesis both do that weird split keyboard thing. All put
| other buttons below the thumb which I am not sure about.
|
| Can someone just please make a high-quality MS Natural
| Ergonomic 4000? Mine is getting worn out.
|
| edit- holy shit it looks like MS reintroduced it!
| https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/microsoft-ergonomic-
| keyboa...
| pnathan wrote:
| The hardwood enclosure hasn't bothered me too much. The
| thumb cluster and layers bother me more.
|
| I also miss the MS Natural 4K. There's a cheap knockoff on
| Amazon, but I didn't bother with it.
| pnathan wrote:
| re the edit:
|
| > Nevertheless, if there were a world where amazing
| products suddenly snapped out of existence and were
| replaced with husks of their former selves, it would be
| this keyboard. Oh, right. That is this world.
|
| Amazon review of the latest gen ergo keyboard.
|
| If ms does a MS Natural 4001 or whatever, a genuine
| successor, I'll probably buy 3. It was _really_ nice.
| pdntspa wrote:
| It's cheap enough that I'm willing to give it a shot. The
| MS Sculpt wireless keyboard was pretty and unexpectedly
| comfortable for me once I got used to the chiclet keys
| robinsonb5 wrote:
| To be honest I'd settle for an ISO option!
| doix wrote:
| I feel like you're out of the loop when it comes to keyboard
| nerds. Check out the dactyl-manuform [0]. The days of tiny
| 40/60 keyboards are gone, they aren't cool anymore (joking of
| course, use what you want).
|
| [0] https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform
| tomtheelder wrote:
| I mean the layout is more or less a standard qwerty one. It's
| not any more condensed than any other keyboard, as far as I can
| tell. You can imagine why an ergonomic layout would make this
| particular product more difficult, as you'd either need
| multiple displays for a split board, or a much larger display
| to accommodate the larger keyboard surface of a more
| traditional ergonomic layout.
|
| Also fwiw I don't think there's any real evidence to suggest
| that ergonomic keyboard layouts help with RSIs.
| pdntspa wrote:
| It puts less tension on my hands, I can feel that. 12+ hours
| a day in front of a keyboard, for weeks at a time sometimes
| for me. I don't have to bunch my elbows into my stomach to
| use the standard home row posture. I think those are all
| ergonomic wins.
| johncalvinyoung wrote:
| Switching to a tented split keyboard (UHK v1) effectively
| saved my productivity from a really bad case of forearm
| tendonitis a couple of years ago. Was still typing with
| coldpacks on my wrists, but it was doable in a way continuing
| on the laptop keyboard every day all day was not.
| balaji1 wrote:
| Surprising this toy doesn't exist yet. People will use(buy) it.
| 450$... fine, it is an expensive toy after all.
| alecfreudenberg wrote:
| I love the pitstop video for the keyframe swap.
| ics wrote:
| Giving me major nostalgia for the Optimus Maximus
| (https://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/maximus/) keyboard and its
| successors. This one looks like an interesting take now that
| displays are even higher resolution, have haptic feedback, etc.
| qubex wrote:
| Also came here to say this -- I wanted to love the Optimus
| Maximus (perhaps because of a bad case of buyer's regret
| generating a counter-force to maximise cognitive dissonance)
| but as a keyboard it was awful.
|
| (Combined it with a BMW-designed Level 10 case; quite the
| looker but monumental and monumentally oversized.)
| agentwiggles wrote:
| I remember thinking the Optimus was _so fucking cool_. I think
| when it was first announced I was still in high school, and I
| wasn't even a programmer yet, so the utility of it would have
| mostly been lost on me, and the price tag was laughable. But I
| just thought the idea was so cool.
|
| Definitely my first thought when I saw this too. That brings me
| back to the good ol' days.
| anoonmoose wrote:
| I was coming here to say this- one of those, "everything old is
| new again" moments.
| insonifi wrote:
| Same here :). But original Optimus has a screen in each key.
| This technically similar to a later design
| https://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/popularis/. Which also had a
| single big LCD and transparent keys on top of it.
| JonathonW wrote:
| Elgato's Stream Deck is a more mainstream application of the
| same approach, with a single LCD under all of the keys.
|
| The Stream Deck isn't doing anything particularly exotic with
| its key mechanism, though (from what I can tell, there's a
| frame between the LCD and buttons with the actual contacts on
| it; no Hall-effect sensors or anything like that).
| fmajid wrote:
| I have the midsized Stream Deck. The mushy feel of the keys
| is awful.
| LordDragonfang wrote:
| >How much will it cost?
|
| >The keyboard will cost between US$299 - $350 after discounts for
| pre-orders with a retail price of US$450.
|
| That's... not as high as I thought it might be, considering how
| expensive mechanical keyboards can get and how esoteric of a
| product this is.
| nomel wrote:
| > considering how expensive mechanical keyboards can get
|
| I would claim that there's nothing expensive about mechanical
| keyboards, there's healthy profit margins, and passionate
| people.
| moremetadata wrote:
| [dead]
| wodenokoto wrote:
| The "hot swap" video is really cute with the team switching from
| green to red, as the keyboard switches to red type linear
| switches.
| drcode wrote:
| This looks fun, but I worked a long time to get to the point
| where I never have to look at my keyboard
| donutdan4114 wrote:
| This looks awesome. I'm curious to see what additional modules
| they make for it.
| nixpulvis wrote:
| Why hasn't this caught on yet? Tiny little OLED displays have
| been around for a while, and we could standardize a layout that
| is independent of the glyphs on each key just as ISO/ANSI/etc
| have...
|
| What's the hold up?
| RajT88 wrote:
| They should have sent a poet
| generalizations wrote:
| That's going to be hard to keep clean.
| von_lohengramm wrote:
| This is exactly what I've been dreaming of ever since Hall effect
| switches came back. It's very reminiscent of the old school
| Zboard keyboard that had physical overlays tailored towards
| specific games. This digital approach seems a touch more
| scalable.
| baybal2 wrote:
| [dead]
| adolph wrote:
| Also that the keys are "maglev"
|
| _Each key is magnetically suspended with rare earth magnets
| allowing them to be 97% transparent and ultra low friction.
| Each switch has 4mm of travel and will be available in linear
| and tactile variants. They also feature a software adjustable
| actuation point in 0.1mm increments and rapid trigger
| functionality through analog hall effect sensing._
|
| _The keys contain magnets along their perimeter which are
| attracted by magnets in the frame which surrounds them. This
| magnetic attraction suspends them in place and provides the
| return force which makes the key bounce back after depressing -
| similar to a spring._
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| I have a magnet in the pad of my left ring finger. This
| keyboard would likely be uncomfortable for me
| adolph wrote:
| Life is truely composed of tradeoffs, no?
|
| My guess is that if this keyboard is released and if you
| use your fingertips rather than fingerpads to type, you
| might not have a problem unless you are ticklish.
| jaywalk wrote:
| Why do you have a magnet in your finger?
| timdiggerm wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_hacking probably
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| Yep. From that link "Rich Lee is known for implanting
| headphones in his tragi in 2013, as well as for his work
| on a vibrating pelvic implant called the Lovetron9000.
| His biohacking activities were used as a justification to
| remove his parental custody rights in 2016."
|
| I got the same implants after talking to him about it on
| IG. It barely worked. An array of magnets on the skull
| would probably work. I had to get the magnets in my ears
| removed when the casings failed.
| Raicuparta wrote:
| One reason some people do this is so they can feel
| currents, and it's a cool party trick. But the real
| effect is spending the rest of your life explaining to
| people that you can't do something because you have
| magnets in your fingers.
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| I read this blog in 2009??? Found a guy to implant a
| magnet in 2013
|
| https://feelingwaves.blogspot.com
| JasonFruit wrote:
| Is "I have a magnet in my finger!" the new "I'm vegan!"?
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| No, but I am vegan. Vegan since 2002. Magnet in my finger
| since 2013. It's fun to feel my laptop charging. But also
| it's kind of inconvenient in ways I never expected.
| evan_ wrote:
| uncomfortable or not I would expect the keyboard might type
| a lot of extra "S"s when you use it.
| atomicUpdate wrote:
| Their description feels wrong to me. How does an attractive
| force repel the key and keep it suspended?
| adolph wrote:
| I like magnetic force too. My guess is that they use two
| magnets of different polar orientation on the key and below
| the key, like -+ to +- or +- to -+. This keeps the key
| floating above the base.
|
| If they are really with the times, then they will use
| printed polymagnets:
|
| _Programmed magnets, or polymagnets are magnetic
| structures that incorporate correlated patterns of magnets
| with alternating polarity, designed to achieve a desired
| behavior and deliver stronger local force. By varying the
| magnetic fields and strengths, different mechanical
| behaviors can be controlled._
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_magnet
| hendersoon wrote:
| I don't find the displays particularly interesting or useful on
| an entire keyboard.
|
| What _is_ interesting is they 're using hall effect (magnetic)
| sensors, which have a vastly longer life than normal mechanical
| switches. That isn't new either, the Dreamcast had them way back
| in the day, and today Wooting sells keyboard with the same tech.
| This enables some very useful gaming features.
|
| First, you can adjust the initial actuation point, so the
| keyboard registers a much lighter press, resulting in faster
| effective response times. Like Wooting, it goes all the way down
| to 0.1mm.
|
| Second and probably more importantly, it supports rapid trigger,
| meaning the key instantly releases the instant you start to lift
| up your finger, and then it doesn't have a _set_ actuation point
| so the key doesn 't need to lift up most of the way before you
| can press it down again. This allows for much, MUCH more
| responsive controls which is a noticeable advantage in eSports
| games and some rapid-clicker games like Osu.
|
| Thirdly and not very important at all, Wooting supports analog
| controls, so you can play driving games with your keyboard, or
| adjust your movement speed in a shooter. There are all kinds of
| issues with support in games, though, and it's unclear if the
| Flux supports it at all.
|
| The problem with Wooting is it's expensive; the keyboard costs
| $175. These magnetic switches need to get down to a more
| reasonable pricepoint.
|
| And the problem with the Flux keyboard is, well, it's even more
| expensive. Starts at $299 in the kickstarter phase, and will
| retail at $450.
|
| I do find it encouraging to see more manufacturers using magnetic
| switches, and hope prices come down at the low end quickly.
| They're just plain _better_.
| Majromax wrote:
| > These magnetic switches need to get down to a more reasonable
| pricepoint.
|
| I think that's close to an inherent problem with the bill of
| materials. Taking a look at DigiKey, the cheapest in-stock
| linear hall effect sensor that I see still runs about $0.40
| apiece in large quantity. Turning that into a usable keyswitch
| requires at least two more magnets, and I'm sure the assembly
| isn't particularly easy.
|
| Without some great cost reduction in hall effect sensors, I
| think a magnetic-switch keyboard will always be more expensive
| than a mechanical-switch keyboard, which will be more expensive
| than a rubber dome keyboard.
| hendersoon wrote:
| That assumes there are no discounts to be had by partnering
| with large companies making switches, doesn't it? Wooting
| partnered with Gateron to build their Lekker hall-effect
| switches. I would be very surprised if their BOM for switches
| alone on the 104-key model was $125 given it retails for
| $195-- and that includes 104 keycaps, the case, cable,
| packaging, controller board, etc.
|
| No doubt they're _considerably_ more expensive than regular
| mechanical switches, but it 's unclear how much of that
| expense comes from their being pretty rare right now and not
| benefiting from economies of scale. That's my hope, at any
| rate, because again-- they're just plain _better_.
| tiledjinn wrote:
| looks like the key feel will be very bad
| muyuu wrote:
| > The keyboard will cost between US$299 - $350 after discounts
| for pre-orders with a retail price of US$450.
| [deleted]
| sj4nz wrote:
| This is interesting... but I can't help but think how much better
| it might be if instead of a video background just had a simpler
| e-ink display for indicating what the transparent key caps were
| for. The animation/videos are very distracting.
|
| I never liked the Apple TouchBar or anything that required
| "active" attention away from the main screen.
| [deleted]
| ar9av wrote:
| I think it'd be much better if they just had a simple e-ink
| display for showing what the transparent key caps are for. That
| way, you don't have to deal with any distracting animations or
| videos, and you can just focus on getting your work done.
|
| And yeah, I totally get what you mean about the Apple TouchBar
| and stuff like that. It might look cool, but it's just another
| thing that takes your attention away from the main screen. We
| need interfaces that are designed to help us be more
| productive, not ones that are just flashy and distracting.
| dheera wrote:
| I was thinking e-Ink too, it would allow the keyboard to be
| made wireless and have a respectable battery life of at least a
| week or two if not much longer.
| jonnycomputer wrote:
| E-ink was the very first thing I thought of. Less power use,
| less glare, less distraction. Heck, I have the Logitech K800
| Wireless Illuminated Keyboard and it hurts my eyes when the
| room is not brightly lit (unlike my Mac Book Pro's backlit
| keyboard which does it right).
| layer8 wrote:
| I wonder about the parallax effect, since the display is a
| significant distance from the key tops. You can kinda see it in
| the short typing demonstration a third down the page. Though I
| never liked self-illuminating keyboards anyway.
| shaunsingh0207 wrote:
| E-ink is extremely expensive, especially at the size of a
| keyboard like that. Memory LCD would be more practical, but at
| that point the lcd costs the same and offers more power for
| those who want it.
|
| There isn't anything stopping you from making the entire screen
| black except for the legends, probably
| sho_hn wrote:
| True dat. I recently made this for my home, as a once-a-day
| automatic newspaper deco thingie (ticking all the latest hype
| boxes: wrote a custom Rust driver for the EPD controller, and
| it's now also using the ChatGPT API to trim and style-
| transfer articles and headlines -- this and also various
| layout/typography improvements not yet in that album):
| https://imgur.com/a/PqkhdGd
|
| $400+shipping for the display panel (a competitive price from
| the shop). Even at volume (which an enthusiast keyboard won't
| be) it's still very expensive.
| throwwwaway69 wrote:
| Very cool - I've been researching something nearly
| identical and it's nice to see your implementation of it.
| Unfortunately I'm not sure I want this bad enough for the
| $500 in hardware costs.
| edu115 wrote:
| Can you let me know where you sourced the screen?
| sho_hn wrote:
| See my reply to your sibling :-)
| shaunsingh0207 wrote:
| Saw your project a few days back, absolutely loved it!
| Same-ish setup here, a massive e-ink screen hooked up to a
| controller and pine64 board. I hung it up next to my bed,
| displays my most important emails/weather/health-notifs
| etc., everything I need in the morning to get up and
| running
|
| The cost of the panel makes me cry but there's nothing like
| e-ink :)
| vopi wrote:
| I was recently messing around with a very small eink
| display (and used it to display HN posts somewhat similar
| in concept to you). Out of curiosity, what display is
| that/where did you source it from?
| sho_hn wrote:
| It's a 13.3" 1600x1200 panel made by E Ink, from the
| Carta product line also used in Kindles et all, the
| ED133UT2. I bought it via Waveshare together with a
| little driver board featuring the ITE IT8951 controller:
| https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper/epaper
| -1/...
|
| The ED133UT2 is also available from E Ink directly and
| from other shops, but I haven't seen a significantly
| better price. There are also some other boards with the
| same controller around. An alternative to using the
| IT8951 is to hook the display up to an MCU with an
| adapter board for the flex cable directly and then drive
| the waveforms from the MCU, this is more complicated
| however and a little controller talking SPI is quite nice
| to have.
|
| There's also a 10.3" with an even higher resolution that
| is very nice for various applications.
| jrockway wrote:
| Yup. TFT LCDs are in everything because they are so cheap,
| and they make designers who are used to designing for
| computers feel less constrained.
|
| I have indoor and outdoor air quality sensors in my
| apartment; the outdoor air quality monitor is an LCD and the
| indoor one is e-ink. I kind of like the LCD better, but have
| to use a feature to turn off the screen at night so it's not
| illuminating the entire room with its backlight. The e-ink
| doesn't emit light, but it also doesn't update as frequently,
| so it's often displaying information that's out of date.
| Because of the various pros and cons, neither technology
| seems like a "win" over the other; the product designer has
| to pick one and hope the market agrees. LCDs get the nudge
| because of cost, though.
| kristopolous wrote:
| Glad people are trying to do something new!
|
| I really like how it's Not derivative. It doesn't look like an
| Apple knockoff product or some other coattail riding project.
| Refreshing.
|
| Keep at it! This is the kind of innovation we need!
| pcurve wrote:
| Yes! I don't care if it doesn't type as well as mechanical or
| rubber keyboard. The cool factor is enough for me to buy one!
| [deleted]
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| Am I the only person who wants a Thinkpad type trackpad-button in
| the middle of the keyboard so I don't have to move over to the
| mouse or trackpad?
| bigpeopleareold wrote:
| Weird - I saw this and thought ... "this is all great, but
| where's the trackpoint?" :D The only real ooo-ahh for us is if
| some fancy new keyboard design has a trackpoint. All the pretty
| lights don't match up to that trackpoint :D
| mackrevinack wrote:
| i just want a trackpoint on every keyboard in general
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| shocking to me that so few keyboards implement this; maybe a
| patent issue?
| thih9 wrote:
| Could be a demand thing.
|
| Anecdotally, around 2010 I've worked for a company that
| used Thinkpad laptops, the majority of people would always
| choose touchpad over trackpoint.
| efficax wrote:
| https://tex.com.tw/ if you want to shell out a decent wad of
| cash, you can get one of these. I want one but $200 seems a bit
| much!
| Ancapistani wrote:
| > I want one but $200 seems a bit much!
|
| Unsolicited advice: you should definitely never visit
| /r/mechanicalkeyboards.
| Avshalom wrote:
| I dunno what the software on this looks like (wrt writing a
| custom driver) but if you can add knobs it seems like it could
| pick up trackpoint wiggling around
| pyrolistical wrote:
| I would rather have a split keyboard with a trackpad in the
| middle
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| yes, or better yet a trackball
|
| I did in fact find a keyboard like that online -- some noname
| brand, and the promise was good, but not the execution. A
| high quality version would be welcome.
| dschooh wrote:
| I even went and got myself a Tex Yoda II. I like it, but
| sometimes I wish it had real arrow keys. Maybe I'd go for a
| Shinobi next time.
| [deleted]
| calvinmorrison wrote:
| I want this but a joystick instead of a nub. More leverage
| pjot wrote:
| For when you need to mouse _really_ fast? Genuinely curious
| how more leverage would be beneficial
| calvinmorrison wrote:
| honestly - IDK I feel like the amount of force on my left
| index finger is kind of high. Turning up the sensitivity
| doesn't really help either. My nub isn't even very worn.
| adolph wrote:
| Or capacitance enabled keys so brushing across them performs
| touch input.
| nomel wrote:
| Do you know of an example of this? I would assume this would
| be a terrible experience.
| Avshalom wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_KeyOne
| banana_giraffe wrote:
| The "Click&Touch" keyboard did this.
|
| I have one. Somewhere. Because the keys need to be as close
| as possible, it's less than ideal as a keyboard, and
| because even though the keys are right next to each other
| there are still gaps between the keys, it's less than ideal
| as a touchpad.
|
| That's when it worked. It wasn't reliable for me.
| [deleted]
| dividuum wrote:
| Would be really interesting. I'm sad that the Touchstream
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FingerWorks) never got
| anywhere. Without sensing the keys it was really difficult to
| use, but the mix of keyboard and touch interface was nice.
| roter wrote:
| You probably already know about this wired keyboard by Lenovo
| [0] that features the TrackPoint.
|
| [0] https://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/p/accessories-and-
| software/keyb...
| notpushkin wrote:
| And you also probably know that it is also possible to build
| one yourself: https://github.com/rampadc/arduino-thinkpadkb-
| usb
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| I did not. Thanks.
|
| The only problem is that I use a split (ergo) keyboard :/
| huhneverthot wrote:
| [dead]
| LesZedCB wrote:
| https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76149
|
| https://www.keymouse.com/catalog/keymouse/keymouse-
| track-3d-...
| thih9 wrote:
| https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/
|
| I don't use it and know little about the project, I just
| remembered that it's a split keyboard with an optional
| trackpoint attachment.
| thomastjeffery wrote:
| I think it's the wrong move to make this a keyboard, particularly
| a traditional typewriter layout.
|
| My main question is: can the hall effect sensors be read as
| variable states instead of boolean keypresses? That could be
| really cool, especially with the display for real-time feedback.
| I can think of so many use cases: change the volume _that hard_.
| WASD like a joystick.
|
| It would be even cooler if they were in an even orthogonal grid
| pattern like a planck keyboard. That would be a lot like the
| impact-pressure sensitive controllers that are popular in audio
| work.
|
| I would love something like that too use as a macro pad: keys
| that have arbitrary meaning you can reference. Keys that behave
| differently depending on context, and _show you the context_ in
| real-time. That would be incredibly useful.
|
| But my keyboard itself? I don't want to look at that. That place
| is for muscle memory alone.
| femto113 wrote:
| Definitely makes way more sense for a macro pad--you don't hit
| those keys very frequently so switches are less significant but
| the key's effect changes often so the screen is useful.
| Tactility is good, I never liked Apple's Touch Bar for that
| reason, you had to look to be sure what you were doing. Can't
| imagine those switches being preferable for the primary keys,
| but would love to see something like this in the old IBM AT F
| or XT layout: 10 function keys in two columns on the left side
| where they could easily be combined with meta keys. Back when I
| had those (mid to late 1980s) I relied heavily on them, but I
| almost never use function keys since they moved to the top of
| the keyboard (and are effectively out of reach).
| pmontra wrote:
| You don't have to look at the keyboard. If you touch type the
| switch to emoji key, with a little training your muscle memory
| can type the right emoji for you and switch back to qwerty.
| thomastjeffery wrote:
| If I don't want to look at my keyboard, why have a display?
|
| If I do want to look at my keyboard, why have it physically
| resemble a typewriter from 1800?
| amelius wrote:
| > My main question is: can the hall effect sensors be read as
| variable states instead of boolean keypresses?
|
| From the article:
|
| > They also feature a software adjustable actuation point in
| 0.1mm increment
|
| So probably yes.
| MSFT_Edging wrote:
| > can the hall effect sensors be read as variable states
| instead of boolean keypresses
|
| Yes, there's hall-effect keyboards out now that you can
| configure to have certain keys provide an analog input, for use
| in things like racing games. Since the actuation point is
| entirely software, you can keep track of actuation distance.
| thomastjeffery wrote:
| Neat! I wonder how difficult and expensive it would be to
| build one.
| xearl wrote:
| > I would love something like that too use as a macro pad: keys
| that have arbitrary meaning you can reference. Keys that behave
| differently depending on context, and show you the context in
| real-time. That would be incredibly useful.
|
| You might want to have a look at Elgato's Stream Decks.
| dgdosen wrote:
| Would the mechanics of those switches be any good?
| junon wrote:
| They're supposed to be, yes. Maglev and hall effect is a hot
| topic in keyboard modding communities.
| skrebbel wrote:
| Loved the last FAQ entry:
|
| > Where is Flux based?
|
| > Flux is based in Sydney, Australia. We are from the future, due
| to time zone differences.
| mickdarling wrote:
| I have used a LOT of custom keyboards, looking at an Ergodex DX1
| on my shelf now. I wish this is something I could be confident
| in.
|
| but, them not treating the screen as a display I think
| significantly limits the utility of this. You have to go through
| their software to customize the screen, layout, and
| customizations. Many of us know how hit-and-miss esoteric
| keyboard software tends to be.
|
| If they stuck to making it an external display managed by the OS,
| polling the keyboard layout from the OS, and maybe just have
| their app apply custom functions like emojis and tool graphics I
| would have some confidence.
|
| They are trying to tie up too much to their software which they
| will eventually stop supporting, like my DX1 paperweight.
| daveidol wrote:
| I see your point, but I actually had the opposite concern when
| I was first looking at the product page.
|
| I'd actually rather not have to worry about how my OS treats
| the extra "display" - plus I don't want running my keyboard to
| eat into my computer's resources in any significant way.
|
| For me, this approach is better. Although I do have some
| concerns about the software eventually going EOL unless they
| open source it.
| ryukafalz wrote:
| > They are trying to tie up too much to their software which
| they will eventually stop supporting, like my DX1 paperweight.
|
| This is precisely why I probably won't buy one despite it
| looking honestly very cool.
|
| Hardware manufacturers these days seem to be allergic to
| telling their customers how to actually talk to their gadgets,
| in favor of proprietary bundles of software that inevitably go
| unsupported within a few years.
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| I prefer blank keycaps. Better for posture and focus to not be
| looking at your keyboard all the time. Also, maintaining the need
| to see your keys clearly puts arbitrary limits on tent angle.
|
| I _would_ appreciate something which could understand both my
| keyboard firmware and whichever app has focus, and summon a
| hotkey helper on screen which mirrored my key layout.
| asddubs wrote:
| if you don't want to shell out for a das keyboard, you could
| really just use any keyboard and spraypaint all the keycaps
| anoonmoose wrote:
| I've been using a blank Das Keyboard [1] at work for years.
| Besides all of the benefits you've listed, I've also found that
| it's the most effective deterrent for keeping people off my
| desk/off my computer that I've ever deployed.
|
| [1] https://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard-4-ultimate/
| dkersten wrote:
| I used a blank DAS to learn to touchtype. I now use a non-
| blank Kinesis Advantage2, but it has qwerty keycaps while all
| my devices are colemak so it has a similar effect to blank
| with the added bonus of confusing other people even more
| because the keycaps don't match what is typed.
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| Ha, awesome. It makes me want to get some keycaps in some
| obscure language like klingon, just to mess with people.
| pascal_wizzard wrote:
| I like to use symbol only space cadet keycaps
| https://mkultra.click/gb-kat-space-cadet
| asoneth wrote:
| I ended up going with blank but I did consider getting
| "Linear A" keycaps
| https://shop.keyboard.io/products/linear-a-keycaps-m100
| for my Keyboardio Model 100.
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| Yep, I may have gotten carried away with that. There's
| nothing so uniquely mine as this: https://imgur.com/a/vXLX4RA
| pathartl wrote:
| Agreed. I'm also left handed and have my mouse to the left of
| the keyboard with the buttons swapped. It's amazingly
| effective.
| JadoJodo wrote:
| For me, this plus a split keyboard in the Dvorak layout fries
| the brains of anyone who might dare to try to use my
| computer.
| fwlr wrote:
| Not to be pedantic, but in the "Easy Maintenance" clip you can
| see the keycaps are in fact blank
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| Touche
| jmartrican wrote:
| I would buy this. If anything, just for the aesthetics. I'm stuck
| on the Logitec MX keyboard cause it can easily switch between my
| two laptops. I will have to find a solution to be able to do the
| same with this keyboard.
| thih9 wrote:
| I wish there was a version without the screen. I'm fine with
| blank keys, I'd even enjoy them.
| 1MachineElf wrote:
| I'd love it if they offered an ortholinear keyframe.
| qwery wrote:
| As far as I know the "other times this has been tried" all have
| had individual displays (and controllers) in each key. The
| difference being that here there is just one panel under the
| whole board with most of the parts above the display being
| transparent. This approach should be far less complicated to
| build, more robust and cheaper.
|
| Honestly, I don't think I need an LCD in my keyboard but I'd
| quite like to have a go on some _mAgLeV_ hall effect switches! On
| that note, if you like magnets and /or keebs you might be
| interested in Void switches[0] -- 3D printable hall effect
| switches
|
| [0] https://github.com/riskable/void_switch
| Groxx wrote:
| For a simpler but different-feeling option, you can also use
| rubber domes and glue, e.g.
| https://github.com/geoffder/dometyl-keyboard/#another-dactyl...
| nerdponx wrote:
| It's a shame that attempts to build open hardware and
| firmware for Topre/Niz-style capacitative rubber domes
| haven't gone anywhere over the years. Unless I'm out of the
| loop, people are still stuck yanking PCBs and controllers out
| of their Realforces and HHKBs to use domes in custom builds.
| sodiumjoe wrote:
| This is the closest I've seen:
| https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=11734
| nerpderp82 wrote:
| One could use those silicon popper OCD toys as a keyboard
| construction method. Still might need some sort of
| compliant spring mechanism with hysteresis.
| nerdponx wrote:
| Are there actual custom keyboard PCPs and controllers that
| support these? That would be pretty damn cool to have a maglev
| keyboard.
| qwery wrote:
| There's a kicad library [0] and (STM32F4*) firmware in rust
| [1] on riskable's github.
|
| Ed: Untested Void Switch Reference PCB Implementation [2]
|
| [0] https://github.com/riskable/void_switch_kicad
|
| [1] https://github.com/riskable/riskeyboard70
|
| [2] https://github.com/riskable/void_switch_65_pct
| k_ wrote:
| Looks like a nice use case for eink IMO, as I don't see the
| point of having video playing under my keys but having keycaps
| that can change depending on the context sounds nice.
| gerash wrote:
| I really like the idea. This is touchbar + tactile feedback. This
| could reduce the mental burden of remembering keyboard shortcuts.
| l_theanine wrote:
| Jesus. This is the most tasteful, flexed out but not over the top
| landing page I've ever seen.
|
| I love it. I've no use for something like this, but I'm in
| absolute awe at the design on display. Marvelous. I hope Apple or
| somebody makes this person obscenely wealthy.
| shaunxcode wrote:
| Is my decades long quest for a keyboard that can switch between
| space cadet lisp mode and APL finally coming to an end?? I hope
| so. Hyper super meta alpha!
| bmn__ wrote:
| You can have that today.
|
| Rough outline to get you hacking: Run `setxkbmap -print |
| xkbcomp -xkb - -` and edit super/hyper/meta keys to your
| liking. Install result with `xkbcomp my-cool-layout.xkb
| $DISPLAY`.
|
| IMO APL is best implemented as a new input method rather than a
| layout, add a new .mim file into /usr/share/m17n.
| jetzzz wrote:
| The keyboard itself looks good but hardware vendors (including
| keyboard manufacturers) have a track record of making abysmal
| software. In fact, software should probably be their primary
| focus. From their FAQ it look like they want themselves to add
| support for every application. Will they have an SDK for other
| software vendors to add support to their applications? Being more
| open, e.g. making a github repo where anyone can contribute
| support for any application would be welcome.
| RajT88 wrote:
| Mark my words. If they release a good SDK for this, and this
| product catches on, we will have, "Jenna Jameson Teaches
| Typing".
| bglazer wrote:
| What's the joke here? I don't understand
| RajT88 wrote:
| Porn typing game.
| bglazer wrote:
| Yeah but what does that have to do with this keyboard in
| particular?
| D13Fd wrote:
| The keyboard has a screen.
| RajT88 wrote:
| Rule 34 in video game form.
| kilgnad wrote:
| I picture a naked torso with all the sensitive zones
| under the correct letters. Typing the right letters
| triggers something to happen.
| Levitz wrote:
| This just sounds like you are completely set on making that.
| pmontra wrote:
| This keyboard is a computer. They should have built a server of
| some kind (REST API, whatever) to manage the keyboard and
| documented it. They could provide a client for Windows, Linux
| and Mac OS developers would have built one or many of them for
| their OSes.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| > Linux / Android / iOS - Limited compatibility (see FAQ
| regarding operation without installed software)
|
| i.e. no, it can't be run without a Windows or MacOS machine to
| set it up first. Oh well, $300-450 was a lot for a keyboard
| anyways. (Well, not bad for what this is, but I have to tell
| myself something to feel better)
| theodric wrote:
| So basically the Optimus Maximus again, but a decade and a half
| later. Cool. Everything old is new again.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ5rX6WpxTk
| freedomben wrote:
| Always great to see innovation in the keyboard space! Looks like
| a pretty neat product. I was hoping to see some sort of mouse
| layer or mouse control like on the UHK.
|
| The UHK totally transformed how I use my desktop. I literally
| don't even have a mouse to plug in now if I wanted to because
| it's been so many years since I needed it. If the UHK ever broke
| or went out of business, I'd be in a world of hurt. Shipping
| times for the UHK are abysmal. I think it took almost a year to
| get my UHKv2. I spent some time searching for a similar product
| but couldn't find it. I don't think implementing that in software
| would be too hard, although it would not be cross platform like
| the UHK is.
|
| Anyone know of "mouse with the keyboard" solutions?
| nahuel0x wrote:
| How do you control the mouse using the UHK?
| kilgnad wrote:
| easy maintenance is what I really want this for. Even the best
| keyboard eventually transforms into a crusty mess due to how
| dirty I am.
|
| With this I can I can keep it clean.
| jvanderbot wrote:
| > Each key is magnetically suspended with rare earth magnets
| allowing them to be 97% transparent and ultra low friction. Each
| switch has 4mm of travel and will be available in linear and
| tactile variants. They also feature a software adjustable
| actuation point in 0.1mm increments and rapid trigger
| functionality through analog hall effect sensing.
|
| Ok sign me up.
| nixpulvis wrote:
| I don't like low travel distances personally :(
| Fetiorin wrote:
| 4mm is not a low travel distance. Most cherry-like switches
| have around 4mm travel.
| nixpulvis wrote:
| Oh, right you are!
| tommiegannert wrote:
| > Truly hot swappable 84-key keyframes to switch between tactile
| keys and linear keys in just 2.15 seconds.
|
| I think I love everything about that sentence.
|
| An easy-to-clean keyboard could definitely find its uses in dirty
| environments. Even if the screen is glass, the keys should
| protect it pretty well. Depending on how scratch-resistant they
| are. For CNC, being able to customize the keyboard seems really
| useful.
|
| It's interesting that they say you can play video on it due to
| the built-in 8 GB storage, but it's not available as a display to
| the host. Their point that the "mouse cursor could get lost on
| the keyboard" is a nice rationale, but it does feel like an odd
| limitation for such a powerful device.
|
| I wonder how complicated it would be to allow customization based
| on SPAs. Their list of initially supported applications suggests
| they are not tackling web apps at launch. E.g. the Google
| Docs/mail suite would be interesting to me.
| fwlr wrote:
| There are upsides to the "not a display" approach: it means the
| display isn't being driven by the host, so it's going to be
| consistent even when your system is under load. I'm sure that
| was the original rationale for putting in its own ARM chip. I
| feel like they could totally add a pass-through mode, flip a
| switch to make it a display for the system to drive.
| russdill wrote:
| From a cleanability aspect if this maglev system works well I'd
| just want this without the LCD and clear keycaps.
| data-ottawa wrote:
| For CNC use I would worry about magnetic bits of metal getting
| into the keys and scratching the display below.
| daniel_reetz wrote:
| Yep. Magnets and magnetic cleverness are a real problem for
| those of us doing any kind of metalwork. They suck up all
| kinds of conductive metal chips and grinding dust. Even the
| speaker in a phone can be problematic.
| Kukumber wrote:
| Finally an evolution of the keyboard
|
| People hated on Apple for the touch bar, but this is the natural
| evolution of the keyboard, why stick to fixed physical keys when
| you can have them digitalized to be context aware
|
| The problem will be the price
|
| Mechanical keyboard market already is a scam where 90% of
| products are greatly overpriced, that will not encourage them to
| offer a reasonable price unfortunately
|
| EDIT:
|
| The keyboard will cost between US$299 - $350 after discounts for
| pre-orders with a retail price of US$450.
|
| Yeah, the price of a console-tier GPU, way too overpriced to be a
| successful product
| modeless wrote:
| People didn't hate the touch bar because it had a screen.
| People hated it because capacitive touch sucks for keyboards.
| Enginerrrd wrote:
| I actually suspect it's too cheap for what they are promising.
| zuminator wrote:
| Are you kidding, I saw a mouse the other day selling for two
| hundred bucks. Provided that by some miracle this has a good
| keyboard feel, I can imagine entire shops switching over to
| this in specialized industries, plus loads of gamers,
| translators, people wanting it as a status symbol. It could
| even be something of a security measure by obfuscating the keys
| during login. Even perhaps a laptop manufacturer can license
| their tech for dual screen laptops like the Lenovo Yoga Book
| 9i. It wouldn't even be a $400
| Kukumber wrote:
| It's no wonder companies out there have an insane burn rate,
| something important got lost in the process
| vmoore wrote:
| Anyone have a specific keyboard they really enjoy using?
|
| For me it's a simple affair: Apple Wired Keyboard. I always liked
| thin keyboards with minimal travel / low profile keyboards.
| jabroni_salad wrote:
| My logitech K860. The keypresses are crisp but quiet, the
| raisers are correctly at the bottom of the board rather than
| the top, the split layout is decent enough, and you can pair up
| to 3 bluetooth devices, so I can use it to type on my phone
| too.
| nullnix wrote:
| I remain obsessed with / utterly dependent on my Maltron
| (contoured, two-hand, trackball). I have a Glove80 coming:
| let's see if it wins me over.
| [deleted]
| WillAdams wrote:
| I was kind of surprised that the keyboard for the Lenovo Yogabook
| 9i dual-screen folding laptop wasn't so done.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| Why the fuck do i need video behind my keyboard?
| johnvaluk wrote:
| As a touch typist, I can usually adapt quickly to variations in
| the bottom row (Ctrl, Fn, Alt, super key). But I find it
| impossible to use a keyboard with undersized, asymmetrical Shift
| keys. Odd choice for a flexible keyboard.
| precompute wrote:
| Looks like a meme, yet another expensive rectangle. The screen
| gimmick will wear away in a few days. Also, keycaps will be very
| difficult to source, and flat keycaps are really uncomfortable.
| roarcher wrote:
| Is it possible to give the key tops a concave curve? I find that
| that helps me be a slightly less mediocre typist, but I'm
| guessing it would distort the image underneath.
| [deleted]
| brigadier132 wrote:
| The screen is the least interesting part of this for me and might
| actually be a negative. The mag lev switches, now that's cool.
| ideasman42 wrote:
| At what point would the magnets lose their strength?
| ris58h wrote:
| Interesting. It could be used together with a foldable
| laptop/tablet. Something like ThinkPad X1 Fold.
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