[HN Gopher] Lisp-powered laptop with a battery life measured in ...
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       Lisp-powered laptop with a battery life measured in years
        
       Author : shkhuz
       Score  : 135 points
       Date   : 2023-03-08 20:21 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.hackster.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.hackster.io)
        
       | bsaul wrote:
       | i really believe one of the most fundamental task for human
       | specie now is to create some kind of backup for all the knowledge
       | of human civilisation. A book you can always open and read, but
       | how are you going to ensure wikipedia remains accessible in case
       | of a true collapse ?
        
         | rollcat wrote:
         | This is the exact topic of Isaac Asimov's "Foundation". (I've
         | watched the series, now digging into the first book.)
         | 
         | Wikipedia provides downloadable data dumps, I guess that's one
         | way to start.
         | 
         | You may also want to check out http://collapseos.org/.
        
       | johnea wrote:
       | Does it come with one of those magnefying glasses in front of the
       | screen?
       | 
       | You know, like in the moview Brazil?
        
         | initramfs wrote:
         | I wrote a dystopian post on this technology- I also write on a
         | similar project idea: https://iotmote.substack.com/p/remaking-
         | the-nokia-6110-and-p... https://hackaday.io/project/177716-the-
         | libre-autarkic-laptop
        
         | tomcam wrote:
         | Yes. And a drab uniform is provided with each machine sold at
         | Best Buy
        
       | sieste wrote:
       | has anyone ever tried to harvest energy from key presses to
       | prolong battery life?
       | 
       | on that one, a little capacitor in the parenthesis keys would
       | probably make that solar panel unnecessary.
        
         | reerdna wrote:
         | Yeah, it is used in https://www.freethegameboy.info for one -
         | not sure if they published numbers on how much energy it
         | produced.
        
           | teruakohatu wrote:
           | Those switches look like they are the mini generators from ZF
           | Electronics that produce 0.33 mWs of power per activation.
           | 
           | ZF Electronics used to be called Cherry Industrial, which was
           | until a few years ago part of the same company as Cherry AG
           | who make the famous keyboard switches.
        
             | justsomehnguy wrote:
             | Yes, specifically ZF AFIG-0007 energy harvesting switch
             | 
             | https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3411839 p. 12
             | 
             | https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ZF/AFIG-0007
        
           | msk-lywenn wrote:
           | I dream of a DMG-1000, an original gameboy with a thousand
           | hours battery life because it would have a CPU made with
           | modern technology. This is actually DMG-Infinite! Amazing.
           | Thanks for sharing.
        
         | joe_the_user wrote:
         | I think I'd prefer a good solid crank to having to grind a
         | keyboard. I remember manual typewriters - they were a hideous,
         | miserable experience.
        
           | snozolli wrote:
           | Pedal power, like an old-timey sewing machine.
        
           | digitallyfree wrote:
           | A hand crank would be really cool on such a device. Rather
           | than scramble for a charger and outlet you could just take a
           | break and crank away.
        
           | reerdna wrote:
           | I've considered adding a few small geared stepper motors as a
           | combination input device (scroll wheel, or two for etch-a-
           | sketch cursor control) and energy harvester.
        
         | justsomehnguy wrote:
         | At $10 a piece and ~90-key keyboard you can have chargable
         | batteries for years.
         | 
         | https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ZF/AFIG-0007
         | 
         | > on that one, a little capacitor in the parenthesis keys would
         | probably make that solar panel unnecessary.
         | 
         | ... ye, you probably can get it with $20 only.
        
           | sparkie wrote:
           | It's a slight exaggeration how frequent parens are used in
           | Lisp. The keys tab, space, shift, backspace, hyphen enter are
           | probably used more often, and many alphanumeric keys.
           | 
           | Perhaps you could have the whole keyboard floating on a lever
           | like a see-saw, with one of these switches beneath it at the
           | right and left side of the pivot. That way any key press off-
           | center would activate one of the two switches. No need for a
           | switch per key. The keyboard would have a slight wobble, but
           | it might not be very noticeable if the distance from center
           | is ~10cm and the switch activation is only a few mm. Keys
           | closest to the sides would have a greater probability of
           | activating the switches.
        
       | orthecreedence wrote:
       | Wonderful work! What kind of modifications did you make to ulisp
       | to create potatOS? And how is it working with ulisp? My only real
       | lisp experience is with CL.
        
         | reerdna wrote:
         | Thank you! Not too much really. I "ported" it to the SparkFun
         | arduino core - which mostly involved adding some ifdefs and
         | fixing a few bugs, like this one
         | https://github.com/sparkfun/Arduino_Apollo3/issues/478 , and
         | added the adafruit sharp memory display library which
         | integrated quite well with the existing graphics support. Then
         | I wrote an interrupt routine to scan the keyboard.
         | 
         | I also had to add some error handling patches which someone had
         | shared in the ulisp forum (because you don't want the REPL to
         | crash if you have a typo)
         | 
         | Working with uLisp is fun - it's not super fast and it does
         | have a few limitations and gotchas, but it was by far the
         | easiest option for this project as so much was already
         | supported. And the documentation and community is very nice.
        
       | brenainn wrote:
       | A great way to resurrect the argument about ideal line length.
        
       | turtlebits wrote:
       | Having a solar panel defeats the metric of "battery life measured
       | in years".
       | 
       | More useful would be runtime of the system on battery (which I'm
       | guessing doesn't make a great headline) as well as the output
       | wattage of the built in solar panel.
        
         | serf wrote:
         | > Having a solar panel defeats the metric of "battery life
         | measured in years".
         | 
         | eh, I don't see why. Solar pocket calculators were still sold
         | with the understanding that their function and lifespan hinged
         | upon the chemistry of the internal battery.
         | 
         | it's not like these things can function without some form of
         | capacitance, and getting that to last a long time is tricky.
        
           | pengaru wrote:
           | It's impressive to dig a long forgotten solar calculator from
           | the late 70s out of a drawer, and have it still function
           | perfectly.
           | 
           | It seems like a monumental failure of the computer industry
           | that we still don't have the equivalent in laptop form. None
           | of my portable computers will come out of a forgotten drawer
           | 50+ years from now and readily turn on.
        
             | cduzz wrote:
             | A while back I wanted to run OS/2 on real hardware -- I
             | bought an old HP omnibook 800; the batteries were all shot
             | but otherwise it worked fine (the laptop; OS/2 was kind of
             | a pain to setup). That's not the 70s but it's old. Lots of
             | that vintage computer would work fine if it weren't for
             | those pesky capacitors -- the same's true of lots of older
             | vintage electronics.
             | 
             | I recently bought an old keyboard (an old IBM M4-1, a PS2
             | keyboard / trackpoint combination thing) -- it's from 1994
             | and needed a couple adapters, but connected to my macbook
             | pro just fine, and worked pretty well.
             | 
             | OS2 won't know modern TLS and the keyboard doesn't have the
             | command / meta / windows / open clover shift keys, they do
             | fine.
             | 
             | My old HP calculator from high school didn't work when I
             | tried it out...
        
         | wkjagt wrote:
         | I guess the battery acts more like a buffer for the solar
         | panel, and battery life here literally means "the lifetime of
         | the battery".
        
         | reerdna wrote:
         | 12000 mAh battery / ~2 mA power consumption when running code
         | and updating the display every second = 250 days. Still pretty
         | good? Haven't had a chance to do much testing of the solar
         | panel yet, but it does charge while running in good light so
         | it's > 1mA.
        
           | Firmwarrior wrote:
           | 2 milliamps? Preposterous
           | 
           | Here's the datasheet for your (or a similar) display (PDF) ht
           | tps://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Sharp%20PDFs/LS0...
           | 
           | ..250 uW average power consumption on your display panel..
           | well, maybe that's not so preposterous after all, great work
        
       | a9h74j wrote:
       | I've imagined having an OLED screen which only flashes on
       | momentarily. Could be used for writing without editing.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Aloha wrote:
         | I've imagined like an OLED/ePaper hybrid for that application.
        
         | 404mm wrote:
         | Or e-ink display. Unfortunately those are quite pricey compared
         | to LCD
        
       | reerdna wrote:
       | Hey HN! This is my project. Hope you find it interesting. AMA.
        
         | upghost wrote:
         | Hell yeah that's some next level lisp hacking! Great work.
        
           | reerdna wrote:
           | Thanks! Have not had the chance to do too much lisp hacking
           | yet though, I still very much consider myself a beginner.
           | Mostly solder and C so far, apart from implementing a crude
           | text editor.
        
         | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | keithwinstein wrote:
         | This is awesome! This kind of extreme low-power application was
         | the original reason I wanted Mosh -- I always thought it would
         | be awesome to have a wireless (hand-cranked?) laptop that could
         | run SSH and would only consume energy when (a) a key was
         | pressed [to update the locally generated UI], or (b) it wanted
         | to fire up the radio (on its chosen schedule, e.g. <1 Hz) to
         | retrieve an update from the server of the "ground truth" UI and
         | reconcile that with the local prediction.
        
           | reerdna wrote:
           | Thank you! Mosh is great, I have found it very helpful at
           | times in my day job. SSHing into servers in Australia from
           | Norway, the latency was pretty bad.
           | 
           | Have not started working on wireless yet but I hope to get to
           | it. The SoC i use has Bluetooth. Using it for a remote shell
           | would be amazing.
        
         | maxk42 wrote:
         | Hi there! Neat project! Can you give us a rundown of some of
         | its features? Which processor are you using? Do you intend to
         | sell these or are you only creating a prototype?
        
           | reerdna wrote:
           | Thank you!
           | 
           | Not many features of note - it runs arbitrary lisp code, has
           | a simple graphics interface. You can save and load code and
           | data/text files to SD card.
           | 
           | The processor is the Ambiq Apollo3 Blue, which is really what
           | makes running arbitrary code with such low power consumption
           | possible. 48/96MHz, 384k of RAM.
           | https://ambiq.com/apollo3-blue/
           | 
           | There's an Apollo4 which is faster and has way more memory,
           | but it's a tiny BGA chip which doesn't have an Arduino core
           | and I don't have the skills to work with that (yet ...)
           | 
           | I hope to create a PCB for it at least, it would make the
           | device tiny and sleek and make it a lot easier for others to
           | reproduce. But I haven't been able to learn PCB design yet.
        
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       (page generated 2023-03-08 23:00 UTC)