[HN Gopher] Self promo on social apps like Reddit is banned BC i...
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       Self promo on social apps like Reddit is banned BC it supports
       grift economies
        
       Author : winternett
       Score  : 10 points
       Date   : 2023-03-06 20:16 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (circuitbored.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (circuitbored.com)
        
       | 650 wrote:
       | It's supported for those in the know-how via astroturfing. Buy
       | 2-10 year old reddit accounts for $$$ and leave a real person
       | esque comment pointing back to your product. It's gotten worse
       | over the years.
       | 
       | One way to see this is looking at the user who posted the review,
       | even if it's an old account, some companies are lazy and only
       | have a few comments on sports/entertainment subreddits and then
       | their most recent being a link to their comment. Of course this
       | could be a real user, but I believe I can discern a fake. Tougher
       | are those who interleave paid posts in between real comments.
       | 
       | I think with the rise of Chat-GPT esque farms, user reviews will
       | be tougher.
       | 
       | I find people place a lot of trust in creators (tiktok,
       | instagram, etc.) believing because the creator is "big" (5-100k
       | followers), but not too big, they can trust them. They often are
       | just in it for the money though and grift often as well.
        
       | Veuxdo wrote:
       | Since this is about music, specifically, and the author mentions
       | Spotify, I'll point out that Spotify sees 60,000 new tracks
       | released every day. If Reddit et. al. didn't suppress self-
       | promotion, they'd get overwhelmed.
        
         | winternett wrote:
         | Spotify can easily make algorithmic changes to sort out low
         | quality and low-listener-rated content (after a
         | healthy/authentic audience has been exposed to each upload).
         | This is what they should be primarily focused on.
         | Unfortunately, sites like spotify make most uploads languish
         | without being heard at all, unless the uploader pays (a minimum
         | of $250) to promote their work on spotify. There is no
         | incentive for Spotify to be fair when they get revenue from
         | struggling artists in this manner.
         | 
         | There are even numerous reports that Spotify (indirectly) is
         | involved in creating fake accounts, playlists, and uploads in
         | order to seize the lion share of profit for it and it's
         | affiliated parties. SOURCE:
         | https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fake+artists+on...
         | 
         | Spotify is a MAJOR company that earns a LOT of money off of
         | user uploaded content. They can afford to moderate and police
         | content better very easily to be honest. Excuses should not be
         | made for their lack of intervention in fraud and payola
         | schemes.
         | 
         | SOURCE: In 2022, music streaming service Spotify generated a
         | revenue of over 11.7 billion euros
         | (https://www.statista.com/statistics/813713/spotify-
         | revenue/#....)
        
           | Veuxdo wrote:
           | Maybe they can help at the margins, but 60,000 new tracks per
           | day is simply too many to deal with in a fair way, "major"
           | company or not.
        
             | winternett wrote:
             | Management of Spotify isn't based on tracks, it's based on
             | artists, which is a much easier pool to manage. That being
             | said, with modern day scripting, it's pretty easy to
             | evaluate 60,000 tracks in one day.
             | 
             | The DMV manages records for Billions of citizens on a
             | routine basis.
        
       | oidar wrote:
       | There is an interesting astroturfing/spamming tactic on Reddit
       | that is currently being used, and it is practically invisible to
       | Reddit admins. Here are the steps:
       | 
       | -1- Create at least two Reddit accounts - an astroturfing account
       | and a moderator account. -2- Moderator account: Become a
       | moderator of a medium-sized subreddit - it doesn't have to be
       | about your promotion target. You can either buy a Reddit account
       | or petition to be a moderator through various means. Use your
       | moderation credentials to become a moderator of a relevant
       | subreddit that is run by an absent moderator. -3- Astroturf
       | account: Start astroturfing - by putting your links on any post
       | that is relevant to your product in the relevant subreddit. -4-
       | Moderator account: Set the spam filter to automatically delete
       | all posts and domains by astroturf users. -5- Moderator account:
       | Approve the deleted spam comments/posts.
       | 
       | Now, after that, Reddit won't care if you mark those
       | comments/posts as spam because they have already been identified
       | as spam, but the moderator approved them.
       | 
       | To get Reddit to take action in a situation like this, I had to
       | send probably over 20-30 reports. Reddit is making it harder and
       | harder to get in touch with administrators/abuse teams -
       | everything is automated. The key phrase that I think got the
       | issue raised was something like, "I believe these posts/comments
       | violate FCC rules regarding material connection to XYZ.com.
       | Moreover, the relationship between the moderators of the XXX
       | subreddit and the astroturfing accounts violates moderator
       | guidelines and promotion rules."
        
         | winternett wrote:
         | It's all getting to be so convoluted... The common thread is
         | usually in buying already popular/followed accounts, running
         | platform ads, and subverting everyone else with downvotes so
         | your posts rise to the top... Yikes...
         | 
         | I had a sub of my own, and I just kept it set to personal
         | posts, but eventually reddit banned all my associated accounts
         | for cross posting to a music subreddit (first time offense =
         | permanent ban), and that orphaned my subreddit to this day.
         | 
         | I refuse to have to resort to wild tactics online just to be
         | visible, even though I could hack things, I also fear that's
         | exactly what will cause me to eventually quit out of a lack of
         | growth.
        
       | steponlego wrote:
       | Let's stop calling web sites "apps" _RIGHT THIS INSTANT._
        
         | winternett wrote:
         | It also encompasses social media apps, far beyond just reddit.
         | 
         | It was uncovered that many scams were run on Facebook and
         | Instagram by employees that locked users out of their accounts
         | for ransom. The whole industry of social media APPS and SITES
         | supports a huge underbelly of toxic corruption... It's a swamp
         | if you look deep enough.
        
           | steponlego wrote:
           | I agree completely except for calling everything an app.
           | Social media is causing societal decay, depression, and many
           | immoral unhealthy things to be normalized. Including
           | nepotism.
        
             | winternett wrote:
             | Amen, It is really creating a system where only wealth and
             | nepotism are acclaimed. In many ways too character
             | assassination and spreading false information have become
             | exponentially worse and more weaponized. I worry about the
             | future of where all this is going. :/
        
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       (page generated 2023-03-06 23:02 UTC)