[HN Gopher] Do no harm: can school mental health interventions c...
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       Do no harm: can school mental health interventions cause iatrogenic
       harm? [pdf]
        
       Author : bumbledraven
       Score  : 16 points
       Date   : 2023-03-05 20:03 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cambridge.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cambridge.org)
        
       | htag wrote:
       | There's a body of evidence that some adults that practice
       | mediation will have anxiety or depression worsen instead of
       | improve (~10-25% depending on the study). Even this simple
       | activity with thousands of years of history is not well
       | understood and can do harm. Other interventions have even less
       | history.
       | 
       | One thing about being an adult is that if mindfulness increases
       | your anxiety you can choose not to practice it. Children are
       | often forced into mental health interventions by schools. Imagine
       | being compelled into doing something that worsens your mental
       | health by someone trying to improve your mental health. The
       | authors are correct that we should be selective about which
       | students get which treatments. Often these are applied more
       | broadly than is appropriate. The authors make no claim about the
       | size of the impact of this practice, or the number of students
       | negatively impacted.
       | 
       | Note: I'm from the US, the paper specifically comments on the UK
       | education system.
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | In my mind both CBT and 'mindfulness' can be pernicious. (Like
       | that time I was suffering from asthma and anxiety at the same
       | time and the last thing I wanted to do was pay attention to my
       | breath.)
        
         | renewedrebecca wrote:
         | Just about any time I've tried to pay attention to my
         | breathing, my heart rate goes up, so I totally get where you're
         | coming from here.
        
           | arrosenberg wrote:
           | Are you rapidly mouth-breathing? The point of focusing on it
           | is to make sure you are doing slow, steady nose-breathing.
           | Slow nose-breathing causes your body to produce calming
           | biochemical signals (for most people).
        
             | PaulHoule wrote:
             | I would point to this as a practice that works, it is about
             | controlling the breath instead of observing it
             | 
             | https://help.welltory.com/en/articles/3973614-long-exhale-
             | fo...
             | 
             | I was taught this method first at a Kempo Karate dojo in
             | the late 1980s, it was also in Yoga books. It is associated
             | with
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagal_tone#Respiratory_sinus_
             | a...
             | 
             | and well established scientifically today.
        
       | MollyRealized wrote:
       | For those who want to know what 'iatrogenic' means prior to
       | dipping further into this thread: "Induced unintentionally in a
       | patient by a physician. Used especially of an infection or other
       | complication of treatment."
       | 
       | Basically: is it causing the very thing the intervention is
       | intended to help.
        
         | woodruffw wrote:
         | At the risk of nitpicking: iatrogensis isn't confined to the
         | very thing the intervention intends to address; it can be any
         | condition induced at the cost of treatment.
         | 
         | Blinding a patient during eye surgery to remove a tumor is an
         | iatrogenic outcome, for example.
        
           | narwally wrote:
           | * * *
        
       | concinds wrote:
       | Paper says that for some kids, CBT and mindfulness can increase
       | negative symptoms, or have no effect.
       | 
       | Not surprising, because they don't address the fundamental
       | issues. Why would mindfulness help with depression, better than
       | teaching these kids how to grieve in an effective, healthy way?
       | 
       | CBT can be helpful, but it 'intellectualizes' problems too much.
       | How about teaching these kids how to increase their self-
       | confidence? How to identify their emotional needs? How to build
       | their social skills, resolve conflicts in relationships, and
       | assert their personal boundaries? Most sure aren't learning that
       | from their parents.
       | 
       | These interventions are far too superficial to obtain the
       | intended results. I'll be pointlessly provocative now: they
       | almost seem intended so that teachers/interveners can avoid
       | having to deal head-on, one-on-one, with their students' "messy"
       | emotions. No need for school adults to have empathic, difficult
       | conversations with kids whose parents are undergoing a divorce.
       | Instead, just teach the kids (as a group) how to intellectualize
       | their emotions, or distance themselves from them. It minimizes
       | the role of teachers and other trusted adults as a social support
       | system, it places the onus on kids to "fix themselves", and it
       | downplays the importance of emotions in causing these problems in
       | the first place. It makes things very impersonal. Imagine if sex-
       | ed classes were founded on Victorian notions of decency, would
       | _they_ be of any help? It concerns me that so many intelligent,
       | thoughtful scientists are barking up the wrong trees. If they
       | refocused their efforts, they could be far more effective.
        
         | narwally wrote:
         | > CBT can be helpful, but it 'intellectualizes' problems too
         | much. How about teaching these kids how to increase their self-
         | confidence? How to identify their emotional needs? How to build
         | their social skills, resolve conflicts in relationships, and
         | assert their personal boundaries? Most sure aren't learning
         | that from their parents.
         | 
         | All the things you listed are already directly addressed within
         | CBT.
        
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       (page generated 2023-03-05 23:00 UTC)