[HN Gopher] AirPods causing tinnitus?
___________________________________________________________________
AirPods causing tinnitus?
Author : makk
Score : 158 points
Date : 2023-03-04 19:42 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (discussions.apple.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (discussions.apple.com)
| fwlr wrote:
| Lifelong tinnitus sufferer here. The prevailing theory (edit:
| this is misleading, it is not the "prevailing theory", I typed
| that without thinking. It is actually a new-ish/fringe-ish
| alternative to the actual prevailing theory of accumulated damage
| to ear fibers):
|
| The theory I subscribe to is that tinnitus is a breakdown of the
| ears' and/or brain's noise filtering and suppression mechanisms.
| Long-term use of white noise makes tinnitus worse, which is a
| particularly cruel irony since white noise also provides short
| term relief from tinnitus. Active noise cancelling likely shares
| enough properties with white noise to cause the same effect.
|
| Some users of noise cancellation are reporting another
| experience, that a sudden loud noise is perceived as
| extraordinarily and painfully loud, to the point that even a
| single incident can have long-lasting effects. This is called
| hyperacusis, and it is highly co-prevalent with tinnitus.
| Essentially, every loud noise you've ever heard has been pre-
| dampened by your ears/brain's natural noise suppression
| mechanisms, and in hyperacusis sometimes this dampening isn't
| applied and you get the full force of the noise - meaning that
| noise is literally the loudest thing you've ever experienced
| (even though it is not the highest decibels you've ever been
| exposed to).
|
| Interestingly, one treatment for tinnitus and hyperacusis I've
| had success with is listening to audio with significant
| instantaneous jumps and dips in volume and frequency. The
| suggested mechanism of action is you're stressing your natural
| noise suppression and it strengthens itself in response. Similar
| principle to weightlifting to stress your muscles so they grow
| stronger in response. Perhaps active noise cancellation is
| causing these problems because it's relieving the usual stresses
| placed on the mechanisms and thus they are atrophying.
|
| I avoid active noise cancellation and white noise. I have found
| passive noise cancellation works well - ear plugs and ear muffs,
| basically. They have their own drawbacks as they will affect
| different frequencies differently, with usual speech frequencies
| often being the most suppressed. Thankfully, Etymotic Research
| (an absolutely incredible auditory-health-first audio gear
| company) has the excellent ER20XS and EtyPlugs designed to reduce
| all frequencies equally. I can't speak highly enough of them and
| how much they've helped me with my auditory issues.
| https://www.etymotic.com/product/er20xs/
|
| Most unfortunately, it seems tinnitus is highly responsive to
| attention: the more attention you pay to it, the worse it gets.
| Obsessive researching and reading about your tinnitus can and
| will make it worse. Sorry. Believe me I know it sucks.
| mdmglr wrote:
| My ENT recommended white noise long term especially for
| sleeping which I've been using for months. Based on everything
| I've googled the last few months this is the first time I'm
| reading the claim that " breakdown of the ears' and/or brain's
| noise filtering and suppression mechanisms." so I'm a little
| skeptical in what you are saying.
|
| My understanding is that tinnitus is the damage to the hairs in
| the cochlea. Which causes the audio processing nerves to have
| issues. Not anything to do with noise filtering.
|
| However as I've been suffering from tinnitus I don't want to
| discount anything you are saying. Do you manually adjust volume
| or are you doing something automated? How can I do the same?
| fwlr wrote:
| I'm not a doctor and your ENT is, you should listen to them
| and not me. I shouldn't have said "Prevailing theory", that
| gives the wrong impression. Makes it seem like "this is what
| doctors think" when it's actually just what I think. I'll
| edit that.
|
| I did have a semi-automated method for causing those noise
| jumps, I'll see if I can find it for you. Well, I looked, and
| can't find it. It's on a lost machine. One should always keep
| backups, but one rarely does. I do recall the basic structure
| of my solution, it was a kludge job with an AppleScript that
| set system volume to a random amount and a shell script that
| slept a random number of seconds, ran the AppleScript, and
| ran itself again. I vaguely recall it was hard to find
| programmatic system-wide equalizer settings but that may be
| different now, and it may be different in Linux/Windows too.
| It was not a comfortable experience, it definitely made
| listening to music into an exercise like running on a
| treadmill, but subjectively it was very helpful. I do recall
| getting the idea for this from reading medical literature on
| hyperacusis, so theoretically there might be some scientific
| support for it, but I have no citations to give.
| DHPersonal wrote:
| I've only heard or read various sources referencing the nerve
| / hair damage that you mention, with the audible noise being
| sometimes associated with the auditory system increasing its
| sensitivity in those frequencies in an effort to hear
| something from the damaged sensors.
| lloeki wrote:
| > a sudden loud noise is perceived as extraordinarily and
| painfully loud
|
| AIUI this is normally handled by the stapedial reflex[0], which
| is not simply "passive" dampening, but indeed active muscle
| action! So the comparison below may be very apt:
|
| > similar principle to weightlifting to stress your muscles so
| they grow stronger in response
|
| Interestingly enough, I find that since I started WFH + being
| unable to go out less (parenthood) I have a hard time bearing
| sudden loud noises (feels like being punched while caught off
| guard and not having time to brace for impact)... It may turn
| out that this reflex which used to be very efficient is now
| dramatically less so these days. Never thought about it this
| way, I just thought that I was, like, "getting older"...
|
| Tangentially: I cannot stand active noise cancellation, it
| creates an instant feeling of pressure on my eardrums, which is
| uneasy for a few minutes until I "get used" to it... until I
| disable it or remove the headset, and the immediate feeling of
| relief only highlights that there was some form of constant
| stress applied unto my ears. Consequently you'll pry my
| collection of (wired) earcans from my cold dead hands.
|
| [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_reflex
| itsmartapuntocm wrote:
| Took me a long time to get over mine when I first got it. I
| think white noise, while a helpful temporary distraction, does
| ultimately become a crutch. Ultimately what helped me get over
| it was just letting myself hear it and ultimately making peace
| with it.
|
| It's kind of ironic in that the "cure" is to train your brain
| to stop seeing as a threat the noise that it's generating
| itself.
| hanniabu wrote:
| Yeah i imagine it being like how your brain ignores your
| nose, it will get used to the tinnitus and block it out over
| time. Likewise, the more you focus on it the harder it'll be
| to ignore it
| itsmartapuntocm wrote:
| It's unfortunately a negative feedback loop at first.
| Hearing it causes you to stress about it, which makes it
| seem worse. That's why stuff like white noise helps at
| first. But ultimately you need be comfortable with when you
| do hear it, which is the really hard part to come to terms
| with.
| danieldk wrote:
| I have pretty much stopped using my AirPods (and mostly
| headphones connected to the iPhone) after reading that emergency
| alerts can cause hearing damage:
|
| https://old.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/c8s6yi/eardrums_dest...
|
| https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7naqg/apple-airpods-hearing...
| anonymouskimmer wrote:
| Are there any software approaches that can properly modulate
| and equalize sound based on the various hardware factors and
| user preference? It seems like it should be possible.
| cebert wrote:
| The man reason I used ACN is to block the sounds and disruptions
| from a noisy open office floorpan at work. I wish more firms
| would consider giving knowledge workers their own small offices
| if they're going to mandate regularly visiting an office.
| BonoboIO wrote:
| Mhmmm that could explain my tinnitus...
| tracerbulletx wrote:
| Please be open to the possibility that it also might not
| explain it. There is going to be a natural overlap between
| people developing tinnitus and using Airpods considering the
| number of people that have them. But is there an increased rate
| of tinnitus among people who use Airpods?
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| I am under the assumption constant use of any headphones at
| the volumes most people listen to inevitably causes tinnitus.
| pwthornton wrote:
| If you don't set a volume limit on your iPhone, it will
| damage your hearing. Apple has a mode to do this, and I've
| set mine at 80 decibels and rarely have the volume all the
| way up. The iPhone can output over headphones at 100+.
|
| The smart move is to get headphones that fit well that
| naturally dampen outside noises and to set your volume
| limit judiciously.
| thih9 wrote:
| Can we add (2019) to the title to indicate that the original
| report comes from that year?
| CommanderData wrote:
| A popular YouTube channel recently recommended wearing Airpods
| with noise cancelling on the London underground because sounds
| routinely exceed 100 decibels sometimes.
|
| Unless my understanding is flawed but the mechanical / energy
| potential is still reaching your ear drums, cochlear and in turn
| the hair cells. How would equalising the sound with an opposite
| sound help reduce the damaged caused here?
| projectazorian wrote:
| If you're wearing headphones you have a physical object
| blocking external sound waves from reaching your eardrums. Kind
| of like wearing earplugs but not as effective, although
| properly fitted airpods pro probably come close.
| davesmylie wrote:
| The energy is reaching your ear in the form of sound waves.
|
| The ANC tech (when done correctly) is sending an antiphase
| (inverse) wave with the same amplitude but inverted phase timed
| exactly to the original sound wave.
|
| Effectively the two waves destructively interfere with and
| cancel each other out - it's not 100% but when done well is
| pretty effective for regular/consistent sounds
| akira2501 wrote:
| If it's not 100% for any particular reason then you are
| effectively adding noise and prolonging it's duration. I
| certainly wouldn't trust the speaker response to exactly
| match what the DSP is trying to produce over the wide range
| of audio that you could be listening to.
|
| It may even be worse if you're here a wide spectrum of noise
| as some components may be canceled while others, particularly
| high frequencies, may be amplified.
|
| I would always try to make passive cancellation work for my
| use case first, and only use active cancellation if it was
| absolutely required.
| JonathonW wrote:
| Airpods Pro are not exclusively reliant on active noise
| cancellation to reduce noise alone-- the tips seal in your ear
| canal and provide passive isolation as well, similar to how
| earplugs or conventional IEMs (in-ear monitors) work. AirPods
| are not rated as earplugs and I wouldn't suggest relying on
| them alone to prevent hearing damage in loud environments (buy
| real earplugs for that), but they will provide some reduction
| in the noise that reaches your ears even when turned off.
|
| Also, active noise cancellation _does_ actually cancel noise
| (it 's not some kind of psychological effect making noise
| "invisible"); sound is a pressure wave and ANC works by moving
| air in the opposite direction to eliminate or reduce that
| pressure wave-- the mechanical energy from that sound is not
| reaching your ear drum if you don't hear it. This doesn't work
| perfectly, of course (the higher the frequency, the harder it
| is to eliminate with ANC for a bunch of acoustic and
| processing-related reasons), but, generally, if you're not
| hearing it, it's not reaching your eardrums and it's not doing
| damage.
| llanowarelves wrote:
| Hearing loss is very serious. You know your body better than
| anyone else so don't be afraid to be its biggest advocate and
| protector. Nobody else will.
|
| I once had tinnitus for a week after a concert and it was one of
| the worst weeks of my life, it felt like it would last forever
| (and for some people, it does). I had pristine, "golden ears" for
| audio engineering and was afraid about how much I'd be able to
| recover. I missed even the boring high pitched squeaks of
| doorknobs, faucets, etc. Everything was muffled. Since then, I've
| been wearing Etymotic earplugs at concerts (the few I went to).
|
| There is research on proper restoration of the cilia (ear hair
| that allows us to hear), but we don't know if it's a "hardware"
| problem (these hairs), "software" problem (brain), or both, in
| what amounts. So it's far away (EDIT: if it's even possible at
| all...). Hearing aids are not something you want to fall back on.
| It's not like eyes with glasses and contacts. Be careful.
| FuckShadowBans wrote:
| [flagged]
| CommanderData wrote:
| There is no cure for hearing damage. Your body can recover from
| slight damage after a few weeks but generally trauma to hair
| cells, synapses and auditory nerve is accumulative and overtime
| they loose their ability to recover.
|
| There's currently no way to regenerate these. There was a
| promising company attempting to do this and they recently
| announced discontinuation of phase 3 trials as their drug
| showed no significant change against placebo.
|
| The drug was in development for almost 9 years before it
| reached phase 3 and failed.
| AnthonBerg wrote:
| In my experience and according to literature, there _are_
| cures for hearing damage. N-acetylcysteine, for one.
|
| I had been taking N-acetylcysteine (NAC) regularly for a
| while for reasons completely unrelated to hearing. I
| unmistakably noticed my hearing to improve. High frequency
| hearing once lost came back.
|
| I didn't believe it. Looked on Google Scholar. The effect is
| known.
|
| The literature supports it; here's just one paper: https://ww
| w.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcell.2021.6594...
|
| Antioxidant properties seem to be what's helping, and I'd
| guess it's the mucolytic aspect of NAC as well.
| llanowarelves wrote:
| Thanks for that update, I heard about it only once years ago.
| Yeah safest thing is to assume it can't come back, and be
| aware of the accumulation, as you said.
| torstenvl wrote:
| > _There is no cure for hearing damage._
|
| There's no silver-bullet cure for hearing damage, but there
| are cures and effective treatment for the underlying causes,
| which can result in a cure for hearing damage.
|
| The treatment and prognosis is highly dependent on the
| underlying cause. Cilia damage probably won't be curable
| until after a lot more stem cell research. Neurological
| damage is hard to impossible to cure depending on the age and
| neuroplasticity of the patient. TMJ or Eustachian tube
| dysfunction can lead to hearing damage that goes away once
| the underlying issue is treated.
|
| This misinformation has killed people. Texas Roadhouse CEO
| Kent Taylor committed suicide after being diagnosed with
| tinnitus and being told it was untreatable, even though his
| tinnitus was caused by a COVID-19 infection causing
| inflammation. The treatment for that, which is highly
| effective, is two weeks of prednisone, with intratympanic
| steroid injections in severe cases.
| rejectfinite wrote:
| I got tinnitus at 15 from an airplane ride maxxing out my
| headphones. So 15 years ago. Its fine, you get used to it after
| 2-3 weeks. Yes it never went away. Buckle up butter cup.
|
| t. not american.
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| > I once had tinnitus for a week after a concert
|
| This is impossible for me. As a self proclaimed hypersensitive
| person with hyperacusis and misophonia, I would rather fight
| and claw my way out of any kind of concert or disco rather than
| suffering from the loud noises. Any kind of concert or disco
| noise means intense pain to me. Like getting stabbed in the
| ears.
|
| I found a solution and peace in ear plugs, with them I can
| enjoy discos and anything else like normal people.
|
| Now one question for you: I do realize the majority of humans
| can stand those levels of noise without earplugs and without
| any apparent discomfort. Do all you normies and neurotypicals
| simply do not have this intense pain reaction to loud noise?
| How the hell could you suffer through a concert so loud it gave
| you tinnitus without passing out from pain?
| projectazorian wrote:
| > Now one question for you: I do realize the majority of
| humans can stand those levels of noise without earplugs and
| without any apparent discomfort. Do all you normies and
| neurotypicals simply do not have this intense pain reaction
| to loud noise? How the hell could you suffer through a
| concert so loud it gave you tinnitus without passing out from
| pain?
|
| Most venues have terrible sound. This can be the result of
| bad acoustics, a poor quality/poorly tuned sound system, or
| performers who don't know what they are doing and think loud
| = good sound. When I'm in one of those I have your reaction.
|
| In venues with a well-tuned, high quality soundsystem being
| used properly, your ears shouldn't hurt much.
|
| But why run the risk of damaging your hearing? Everyone
| should be wearing earplugs at live events anyway.
| hn92726819 wrote:
| I'm the exact same way. I assume our brain translates loud
| noises into physical side effects while normal brains just
| don't. Same way anxiety, or an anxiety disorder, can cause
| physical effects like sweating or increased heart rates when
| having symptoms.
|
| Personally, I like it because I worry about hearing loss and
| it's a kind of protective measure, while other people don't
| seem to care when they're damaging their ears. I also hate it
| because I can look like a lunatic getting physically
| uncomfortable when everyone else is fine.
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| Yes, yes, I prefer having this warning mechanism over not
| having it. I keep ear plugs in all my pockets, you never
| know when you end up in clearly harmfully loud environments
| even if it's just walking past a jackhammer.
|
| I can not even imagine what normal people experience and
| feel at that point where noise and loudness turn into PURE
| PAIN for me. The accoustic equivalent of looking into the
| sun or lasers!
|
| I also use airpod pros as alternative to earplugs and I do
| feel the ANC pressure and weirdness, but it doesn't feel
| painful in any way.
| throwaway049 wrote:
| Most people don't feel pain at the concert and they only
| notice the tinnitus the following day.
|
| I used to go to thrash punk gigs years ago - but not many so
| didn't do noticeable damage before I learned about the risk
| and started wearing ear plugs.
| FuckShadowBans wrote:
| [flagged]
| FuckShadowBans wrote:
| [flagged]
| projectazorian wrote:
| Yeah it can't be stressed enough, if you go to live events, get
| concert earplugs and wear them religiously. You hear the music
| better anyway.
|
| It's been sad to see friends fail to heed this advice. You
| don't want to be that person who needs hearing aids at age 50
| due to something you could have prevented with a little
| forethought.
|
| Etymotic are great and were my standby for years. Recently
| upgraded to Earasers on the recommendation of a musician friend
| and I am very happy with them, frequently forget they are even
| there.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| +1 for etymotic also. Really great stuff. I had customs when
| I worked in PA but now ER-15s suffice just fine.
| agreement5051 wrote:
| I recently got earasers, mainly to make it easier to hear
| people over music (I have auditory processing disorder),
| however I have found them just to muffle everything, making
| the music a good level, but speech unbearable.
|
| Is this your experience?
|
| Wondering because maybe I'm doing something wrong or maybe I
| chose the wrong level of them (I think I chose the regular EU
| level).
| wnevets wrote:
| Whenever I find myself saying this music isn't loud enough I
| better turn it up, I stop and assume that actually means I need
| to do the opposite or turn it off.
|
| Even moderate volume is bad over time, the louder the sound the
| less time your ears can be exposed to it. I wouldn't be surprised
| if this rule also applies to ANR.
| sourcecodeplz wrote:
| Could this lead to a class action lawsuit?
| blindriver wrote:
| I wonder if it's the noise cancellation causing problems. I
| definitely hear a high-pitched noise from the noise cancellation
| feature and rarely use it at all specifically because of that,
| except very infrequently like on planes. Maybe the high frequency
| noise is damaging the ear drums at high frequencies?
|
| But I can definitely say I do not have tinnitus despite wearing
| AirPod Maxes quite often.
| qwertox wrote:
| I'm convinced that this is it. The DSPs and speakers aren't
| fast enough to instantly create a counterwave, so I guess
| sometimes it will amplify the external sound, even in some kind
| of distorted manner since even the amplification-component
| won't be identical to the incoming external sound.
| pwthornton wrote:
| I also don't have tinnitus, and like you don't use noise
| cancellation much at all (planes being just about the only
| time). I find the Maxes sound very good in normal mode and
| block out a lot of noise on their own. But these noise
| cancellation modes could be a cause for concern.
| garyfirestorm wrote:
| Ummmm. ANC attenuates certain frequencies and fails to
| attenuate other frequencies. Which you would end up hearing
| anyway if you weren't wearing the headphones. So effectively
| the sound power reaching your ears didn't change for those
| frequencies.
|
| I have worked on ANC systems in automotive applications.
| a-dub wrote:
| theoretically. it's never going to match the input exactly
| though and therefore it will generate noise of its own. it's
| conceivable that there would be less variation in this noise,
| due to quantized nature of the system that synthesizes the
| cancellation, and that a fixed synthesized signal for long
| durations could exhaust parts of the cochlea that are used to
| the high variability of natural sounds and/or trigger an
| adaptation in auditory cortex.
|
| or the software is bad or the anc mic fails, and it generates
| a high pitched whine that causes short term tinnitus.
|
| just spitballing because it's fun. would be interesting to
| analyze the frequency responses to benchtop and realistic
| scenarios for anc in modern earbuds.
|
| also would be interesting to understand the psychophysical
| response to those behaviors!
| makk wrote:
| Thank you. I would love for someone go down this rabbit
| hole and see what they find. Maybe it turns out the answer
| is "none of the above" but these feel like productive lines
| of inquiry.
| noarchy wrote:
| > Ummmm
|
| Serious question, because I see it so often: what are these
| fillers meant to achieve?
| khazhoux wrote:
| They are a attempt to replicate, in written form, the
| rhythm of conversation that is typically encountered when
| two or more people speak in person, face to face.
|
| The "Ummmm" we see in the present example, expresses doubt
| in what was just said ( _written_ , really), and
| foreshadows that the statement to follow (from speaker #2)
| may be disagreeable to the other person (speaker #1).'
|
| Similarly, it is not uncommon to find the word "Hmmm" as a
| preface to some statement. This expresses a notion of "I
| will need to think about this." But in some contexts,
| "Hmmm" can convey skepticism. In real-life conversation,
| people frequently exploit this ambiguity, as a clever way
| to signal that they are skeptical but will not state so out
| loud.
| rajamaka wrote:
| Shortcut to passive aggressiveness
| garyfirestorm wrote:
| It wasn't meant to come across as passive aggressive.
| When I make a statement that contradicts the original
| post, I try to be mindful and human. Instead of saying
| 'you're blatantly wrong' I am hoping to not come across
| as a rude guy on internet. I'll probably explore other
| ways.
| dsr_ wrote:
| Replication of speech habits into text.
|
| In this case, it signifies skepticism.
| NathanielK wrote:
| Your ears are a complex system. Just like when your eyes
| think it's darker, your pupils dilate, your ears have a
| similar method of controlling how much sound gets to the
| sensitive bits.
|
| It's possible that ANC convinces your ear to open up a bit
| more, leading to damage in the frequencies that it doesn't
| attenuate.
| data-ottawa wrote:
| I wonder if the ANC is actually bringing out latent tinnitus
| that was already there, but we don't often experience sudden
| transitions to and from silence where tinnitus becomes most
| notable.
|
| There's evidence that in urban environments street noise is
| loud enough to cause hearing loss over time. Millennials or
| younger have basically worn headphones their whole lives as
| well, and only recently have devices started alerting for
| dangerous exposure. If you've listened to music or a podcast on
| a plane or the bus with earbuds then the volume would have been
| at dangerous levels.
|
| I don't want to imply ANC may not cause tinnitus (this should
| be explored), but I suspect the reason people feel it wares off
| also has to do with the brain acclimating to background noise
| again.
| npteljes wrote:
| I was looking for this comment - I have a different ANC
| headphone, and I definitely noticed that it puts a new kind of
| pressure on my ears. Not often, but only when the ANC is
| activated, and when I have been using it for an extended time.
| No tinnitus here either, just something I noticed.
| prpl wrote:
| I stated having tinnitus after wearing airpods (gen3, but dropped
| to gen 2 ) last year. I'd used big headphones and standard issue
| wired headphones for years. Even went to an audiologist to get
| hearing checked. I'd concurrently had a bad sinus infection, but
| the tinitius started earlier. I think the tinnitus has gone down
| in the last several months finally (or I am more used to it?) but
| it was intense.
|
| For the record, I've played guitar for 20+ years, in bands, and
| listened to thousands of hours of music, been to thousands of
| shows, etc... so I know what tinnitus from loud music feels like.
| This was something else.
|
| I stopped using headphones at home almost completely
| tfeldmann wrote:
| My AirPod Pros emit some loud, short static noise bursts from
| time to time. Mostly in situation where there is a single loud
| noise in the environment.
| DayDollar wrote:
| Like ultra sonic bursts from devices trying to identify other
| devices in the room? What a irony that would be, add tech
| destroying the hearing with which they try to reach the
| audience.
| bavent wrote:
| I think there is a replacement program for this issue -
| https://support.apple.com/airpods-pro-service-program-sound-...
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| Keep in mind that Apple sells around 100 million sets of AirPods
| per year: https://9to5mac.com/2022/12/05/airpods-pro-2-sales/
|
| At this scale, it's nearly impossible to separate coincidence
| from causality in scattered anecdotes.
| Terretta wrote:
| And all of them used with current iOS, iPadOS, and MacOS offer
| default volume limits and proactive notifications about excess
| decibels, set quite low, and iPhones themselves offer
| environmental volume warnings as well now.
|
| To get hearing damage generally requires disabling or raising
| levels on this feature not on offer from most players+headsets.
| makk wrote:
| Generally, sure. But some of us are raising the possibility
| that there's something else going on that isn't captured by
| the limits, notifications and warnings. I didn't mention it
| in my original post but I always used my AirPod Max with the
| hard cap decibel limit set to the minimum value, and even
| then I wouldn't have them turned all the way up.
| causality0 wrote:
| Sometimes I wonder about electronic noise cancellation. On most
| of the headphones and earbuds I've tried it on, it's felt like
| having cotton rammed into my ears. It almost feels like a sonic
| version of having minor surgery/dental work with local
| anesthetic, like my ear is being absolutely blasted with
| something I can't actually hear. I worry about what the side
| effects could be. After all, you can't see ultraviolet light but
| it can still destroy your retina.
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| To me it feels like pressure or a vacuum. I don't know enough
| about physics is it just that active noise cancelling is
| increasing the total stimulus to your eardrum and it just
| sounds better because they cancel each other out but physically
| it's still more soundwaves to absorb.
|
| I only use active when I vacuum pretty much. Sometimes if the
| kids are really loud or there's some obnoxious background noise
| mattmaroon wrote:
| No, it's the opposite actually, when it works. Sound is just
| a pressure wave traveling through air. By outputting a
| diametrically opposed sound wave, you're zeroing out the
| pressure. Noise canceling, when it works, lessening the
| pressure hitting your ear. If it really want to learn more,
| just look up YouTube videos on destructive interference.
|
| The problem is that it isn't always able to do that perfectly
| so it could situationally increase the decibels for very
| short times.
| Applejinx wrote:
| I'm wondering if there might be some kind of interaction with
| the drivers and amplifiers?
|
| They've gotta be pretty wide-range drivers, and I wouldn't be
| surprised if there's class D amplifiers in there. That can
| produce loads of power, efficiently, but high-frequency
| switching noise could be a concern.
|
| Might be worth measuring these with a reference microphone,
| capturing at something like 192k. Might only need 96k. You want
| to find out if it is producing 'ultrasonic' noise, particularly
| at high amplitudes.
| rr808 wrote:
| Me too, I feel something pressing my eardrum. I can't use noise
| cancelling.
| roncesvalles wrote:
| Anecdotal but I also had tinnitus after using ANC headphones for
| a year. Got a hearing test and an MRI scan (to rule out acoustic
| neuroma) and they found nothing. Switched off ANC, tinnitus went
| away after a few weeks.
|
| If you search for ANC-induced tinnitus on forums, there are
| hundreds of anecdotes. Yet all the (few) studies that I looked at
| showed ANC to be completely safe and not related to tinnitus.
|
| This incident made me consider scientific papers and my
| interpretation of them a whole notch more critically than before.
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| I wonder if a reduced noise level makes existing tinnitus more
| noticeable.
| brundolf wrote:
| I noticed some mild tinnitus I must have already had when I
| first tried out the ANC. It didn't take me long to acclimate
| and stop noticing it, but it was pretty noticeable at first
| mdmglr wrote:
| Yes it does. I think with wfh initiatives in COVID a lot of
| people who previously where oblivious to ringing are hearing
| it.
| bornfreddy wrote:
| This is my biggest reservation against using (any) noise
| cancelling headphones.
|
| IIUC, they work by emitting the same frequency sound, a bit
| delayed, which cancels the sound in the targeted place - but
| doubles its amplitude in vicinity, because this is how waves work
| (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).
|
| I can't imagine being blasted with a loud sound in the vicinity
| of our hearing organs is very healthy. Instead, I just use those
| big headphones that cover my ears and dampen surrounding sounds
| somewhat. They're not stylish though.
| pas wrote:
| you would hear it, and it would not work. it works because it
| emits at the right time, not delayed, to cancel it so perfectly
| that it's below the noise floor for your ears
|
| usually what we hear is the shitty Bluetooth and coil whine
| WalterSear wrote:
| Early forms of active noise reduction did create the comb
| filtering effects that you describe, but these were never
| inaudible. Modern noise reduction is much better about this,
| however, and higher level products are actually used for
| hearing protection - this is used in headphones for fighter
| pilots.
|
| The problem isn't the noise cancelling as much as people
| turning up the volume in loud environments, since earbuds don't
| reduce the outside volume as much as covered headphones do. So
| then they get the outside noise, plus the increased volume from
| the earbuds.
|
| OT tip - I bought a pair of cheap $30 noise protection ear
| muffs that I am rarely without when travelling on damagingly
| loud public transit, such as when I'm commuting on underground
| rail. They are conspicuously large and odd looking, but my
| earbuds fit nicely under them, and the travel and listening
| experience is greatly enhanced, and pleasantly much quieter.
| [deleted]
| deergomoo wrote:
| I'm no expert, but I thought they worked by destructive
| interference? i.e. they emit the _opposite_ sound, and
| (providing they can match the amplitude) reduce the incoming
| wave to nothing, which is why we don't hear anything.
| krackers wrote:
| That energy has to go somewhere. As I understand that
| resulting energy is mostly not directed towards the ear
| (probably as heat?). But tinnitus isn't purely physical,
| there are psychoacoustic mechanisms at play as well, which
| noise canceling might cause.
| lampshades wrote:
| I have used active noise cancelling headphones for almost two
| decades and have used them a lot. I have tinnitus but I assumed
| it was because I was drinking too much.
| mo_42 wrote:
| Probably not, especially considering how many items have been
| sold.
|
| In contrast, I think ANC can be protective for your ears. The
| AirPods itself block loud noise a bit and the ANC helps me
| listening to low-volume music. For example, the Berlin
| underground trains make extremely loud noises. The speakers are
| so loud I think they should be forbidden.
| thenerdhead wrote:
| AirPods may contribute to it, but we did just go through a few
| years of excessive emotional stress, a virus known to do all
| sorts of strange stuff, and used our wearable devices much more
| often.
|
| Don't just blame the AirPods in other words.
| anonymousiam wrote:
| The noise cancelling feature might be emitting ultrasonic sound,
| which might be causing damage. I've had tinnitus for a few
| decades, but I don't blame my airpods and it doesn't seem to be
| getting worse. (I had a hearing test a few years ago and my
| results were "perfect" despite the constant ringing.)
| 23B1 wrote:
| Listening to loud stuff directly piped into your ear certainly
| seems like a good way to get tinnitus...
| rajamaka wrote:
| You just described all hearing
| jchw wrote:
| I have tinnitus and I do not see any issues with my WH1000XM4s
| making it any worse. It does feel like I can hear the tinnitus a
| bit worse with the headphones on, but I think that's just the ANC
| cutting out low frequency noise as expected. I've been using XM4s
| and XM3s for years, and my tinnitus has been steady, so I assume
| not all ANC makes tinnitus worse inherently. It is possible
| AirPods Max would also not increase tinnitus for me, but I am not
| going to use them because I do not use Apple products for much
| currently and so I am sure it'd be a pain to update and configure
| them. (Not to mention, it's nice being able to use LDAC in
| Pipewire, or Multipoint, and I don't know if Apple supports
| either of these options.)
| larrykubin wrote:
| Any promising cures for tinnitus in the future? I've had it since
| 2018 and it appeared during a time when I was very stressed out.
| I have learned how to tune it out and live with it most of the
| time, but wish I could eliminate it all together. At the
| beginning I would look up different tricks for dealing with it,
| but they all seemed to make it worse. The most effective for me
| was to learn to ignore it.
| jokoon wrote:
| I suspect all ear plugs will always cause tinnitus. Having sound
| emitted so close to your ear drum is not a good idea.
|
| Not to mention that often, air cannot escape, which increase
| energy and/or air pressure inside the ear canal.
|
| A better alternative would be to have helicopter-type headset
| (not as much soundproof, though), so that you won't increase
| volume to mask surrounding noise in public transport or outside.
| mumblemumble wrote:
| There are also Etymotic earbuds. I swear by them for listening
| to music in noisy environments such as the subway or airplanes.
| They cost less than ANC They do a _much_ better job of reducing
| ambient noise -- I can keep the volume to a whisper even in
| environments where having a conversation is uncomfortable. And
| there aren 't any batteries to worry about keeping charged.
| xattt wrote:
| I thought the specific purpose of a helicopter headset was
| noise isolation, given the high noise levels of rotorcraft.
| unixhero wrote:
| Of course they are. Edit: Sound this close to the hearing organs
| which is too loud, will destroy hearing and cause tinnitus. This
| is well known.
| clbrmbr wrote:
| Poor man's AirPods: construction earmuffs over old-school wired
| Apple earbuds. You can keep the actual volume setting quite low,
| and the suppression of outside noise is powerful. Feels like
| you're underwater or you're Frodo wearing the One Ring.
| drewg123 wrote:
| I used to do this to make life in the cube farm at Google
| tolerable. The advantage of construction/shooting earmuffs is
| that they also cancel out conversations really well.
| bredren wrote:
| I have done this with APP2's on noise cancellation while
| running a leaf blower. Pretty amazing, just can't use hey siri.
| antibasilisk wrote:
| Barnucles Nerdgasm made a video a while ago where he combined
| construction earmuffs with headphones and it turned out pretty
| well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjjgLcAUyRE
| layer8 wrote:
| If true, it's probably either defective AirPods or less-than-
| stellar (but maybe within specs) ANC.
|
| You can get a kind of tinnitus from long exposure to even low-
| volume continuous noise, because the ear starts to compensate for
| the noise (in a fashion very similar to ANC, I imagine, just on
| the level of the auditory neurons or the cochlea), and then
| continues to compensate even when the noise is gone.
| 1-6 wrote:
| This is anecdotal but B12 seems to help my tinnitus. Sometimes
| the issue is neurological and not mechanical.
| jws wrote:
| More anecdotes! I use the AirPod Pros many hours a day and have
| mild tinnitus. I find the noise canceling makes me more aware of
| the singing in my ears. I don't live in a place where silence
| happens, but the cancelling will kill the outside noise enough
| for me to remember that the ears are always singing to
| themselves.
|
| For people experiencing loud noises, be aware that if the
| microphones can come loose, then they can get weird transients
| from vibration, shock, or even the sound being driven through the
| AirPods. The original AirPods were subject to that, I had mine
| replaced once and when they came loose again stopped using them.
| (Gross note: the original ones made me more subject to disgusting
| things happening best left unmentioned when used many hours a
| day. That was most of the reason for not getting them replaced
| again. The new ones definitely breathe better and don't cause me
| trouble.)
| brundolf wrote:
| Yeah, I got a very early pair and they started to break down
| after about a month. Random pops and sharp high-pitched sounds,
| before eventually they stopped working at all
|
| A few months ago I decided to see if they'd worked out the
| kinks and got a new pair of Gen 2 ones. Those have been working
| pretty much flawlessly
| splap wrote:
| I started getting spasms of my tensor tympani muscle around the
| time I began using AirPods with noise cancellation. Could hear it
| clearly and had a doc visually confirm.
|
| Correlation not causation, but weird enough that a stopped using
| them.
| jjcon wrote:
| Interesting same thing happened to me - a very strange
| sensation. I was using Galaxy Buds every day for work and have
| since stopped using any earbuds and the issue has pretty much
| gone away. Can't say for sure it was the buds but... felt
| correlated enough that I'm wary to use them again.
| benatkin wrote:
| If it was the buds maybe they caused temporary harm while the
| Apple ones are causing lasting harm. To date Samsung's
| innovations haven't been like Apple's butterfly keyboard. I
| have Samsung buds and they are pretty impressive but I think
| if they were more powerful it would be weird.
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| Could EMFs be at play here?
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2657824/
| karaterobot wrote:
| Between music, podcasts, audiobooks, zoom calls, etc. I've spent
| probably years of my life with earbuds in. Maybe sad, but
| definitely true. I've expected some noticeable hearing loss or
| tinnitus the whole time, but haven't developed any yet. This is
| anecdotal, like the original post.
| grogenaut wrote:
| I highly suspect wearing mx3s in my home office with needless
| noise cancellation on during the first 1.2 years of the pandemic
| gave me tinnitus... Esp paired with a barely perceptible
| capacitor wine from a printer. That probably enter frequency is
| about where my tinnitus frequency is. I don't use noise
| cancellation anymore. Switched to some Sennheiser game ones ...
| Noise cancellation was useful in the office... But home office is
| silent
|
| I'm betting there will be some huge class actions
| rajamaka wrote:
| I have worn mx4s for 4 years in my home office for over 10 each
| day with noise cancelling. No issues.
| bl4ckneon wrote:
| Simular situation. For the mx4's they sound so much better
| when ANC is turned on rather than off imo. Especially the
| bass/lower frequencies.
| grogenaut wrote:
| I agree with that, they sound great... The tinnitus doesnt.
| cwales95 wrote:
| This is very interesting. I've noticed my tinnitus has seemed to
| be worse as of late. I exclusively use AirPods Pro. I wouldn't
| say I listen to loud music, but I'm wondering if the noise
| cancellation could have something to do with it...
| zdragnar wrote:
| I have had tinnitus for years, and have never felt comfortable
| with noise cancelling headphones. Purely anecdotal, of course,
| and even regular headphones are uncomfortable after awhile, but
| active noise cancellation is unbearable for me
| brundolf wrote:
| I wonder how much of this is _causing_ tinnitus, vs the total
| silence _revealing_ (or intensifying) tinnitus
| emptysea wrote:
| Yeah I feel like the total silence causes me to focus on
| the ringing, which raises the intensity -- I think it's a
| mental thing.
|
| Whenever I use noise cancelling headphones (or really any
| headphones), I always have something playing even at a
| really low volume to drown out the tinnitus.
| wtvanhest wrote:
| I have tinnitus and AirPod pros and haven't noticed any
| difference. I do find that not drinking out of straws or
| especially camelpak style bottles with straws really minimizes
| it. Also, more sleep, less tinnitus
| salt-licker wrote:
| AirPods Pro noise cancellation almost definitely gave me
| temporary tinnitus after a few months of usage even though I
| never listened to music that loud. Switched to regular AirPods
| two years ago and the tinnitus entirely went away.
| Spivak wrote:
| No way holy shit. Welp. God dammit I was trying so hard to
| figure out what caused this.
| quitit wrote:
| "As a matter of fact, I carry a pair of earplugs in my pocket,
| just in case I encounter anything loud that would damage my
| hearing."
|
| Fun fact: Frequently using earplugs is also a cause of tinnitus
| (through at least 6 identified routes.)
|
| I'm not suggesting that this person's use of earplugs is the
| source of their tinnitus, but it does help demonstrate that
| tinnitus has a mind-bogglingly large range of sources such as
| immune disorders/allergy, infection, ear wax impaction, and
| conditioning, along with being a side effect to a long list of
| medical conditions.
| smohare wrote:
| [dead]
| code_runner wrote:
| I love my AirPod pros and I just leave them in for hours with ANC
| on because they are comfy and it's nice. Depends on the day if
| they get uncomfortable, but no issues here.
|
| I've rarely had the "pressure" people talk about with ANC so
| maybe some are just predisposed somehow.
| makk wrote:
| Based on personal subjective experience, my AirPods Max have
| definitely worsened my tinnitus.
|
| Given my 30-year history of tinnitus, I'm very careful about
| volume levels and I am certain that "too loud, too long" is not
| the thing that's made things worse for me.
|
| The only thing that changed is I started using AirPods,
| specifically the Max.
|
| I immediately noticed, when I first put them on, that I could
| hear _better_ with them on and in transparency mode than I could
| with without them. A clue that they were cleaning up and /or
| amplifying something.
|
| I had no apparent problems for a few months but then started to
| notice that it seems liked my tinnitus was getting worse.
| Unfortunately for me, I didn't immediately do anything about that
| observation.
|
| Then, one day, I was in the kitchen with them on in transparency
| mode. Listening to nothing at all. I knocked a cast iron skillet
| against the stove. The pain in my left ear was instantaneous. It
| was like a gunshot. I took the headphones off immediately.
| Although there was no pain in my right ear, the increased ringing
| in it was intense and has only subsided slightly in the weeks
| since then.
|
| For weeks, the ringing was so loud that it was waking my from
| sleep. I couldn't drop into meditation -- as a meditation
| practitioner, I'm checking in with my internal experience daily,
| so this change was profound.
|
| I had to go on medication to aid with sleep and anxiety.
|
| I've regained a hold on my sanity and come to grips with the
| reality that my ears are never going back to my normal level of
| tinnitus.
|
| Upon a web search, I found the link I've provided, with more than
| 2000 people upvoting the topic on Apple's discussion site.
| Reading through the subjective experiences reported by many
| people there, it certainly seems like something is going on.
|
| I'm posting here because I was talking to a friend about his
| experience with AirPods that have the noise cancelling and
| transparency features, and he experienced tinnitus as well with
| his Pro and Max models. He's one of the smartest people I know,
| so when he was reporting the same thing that I experienced, that
| so many other people are reporting, I became concerned that there
| may be a widespread issue.
|
| Fortunately for him, the moment he started to get ringing he
| thought about it and disabled both transparency and noise
| cancellation. So, he switched to using them as plain old
| headphones, basically. His tinnitus wasn't permanent and he
| hasn't had problems since he made that adjustment.
|
| He's a physics guy and his hunch is that there's something going
| on with harmonics and the powered modes of the headphones, that
| we can't hear, that is screwing up our ears.
|
| I saw an ear doctor last week. He gave me a hearing test and was
| confused by what he saw (apparent across-the-board hearing loss
| in the left year; above and below average hearing in the right
| ear across the spectrum). He shrugged at my questions about
| certain kinds of headphones causing tinnitus.
|
| What is the experience of the HN community? Does anyone have
| insights into what might be going wrong here?
| AbusiveHNAdmin wrote:
| [dead]
| pwthornton wrote:
| I am open to the idea that these new modes could be causing
| this. I've used AirPods for years, almost never with any mode
| other than basic listening, and have never had issues with
| them. The transparency mode being a super crude hearing aid
| approximation, has some cause for concern, and it amplifying
| sounds you don't need amplified is a weird idea (I don't have
| hearing loss, and I hate transparency mode). I personally don't
| like how the noise cancellations feel when it is on, and only
| use it in truly loud environments and on planes.
| projectazorian wrote:
| TMJ problem maybe? You unconsciously clenched your jaw in just
| the wrong way upon hearing an unexpected noise and it caused a
| problem with your jaw joint, possibly exacerbated by the
| headphone in your ear canal?
|
| It's a common cause of tinnitus from what I hear, and
| anecdotally, my tinnitus is worse when my TMJ is worse. But
| mine is mild and intermittent so wouldn't want to compare to
| your situation.
| ctoth wrote:
| Re: your username You might enjoy the new alternate history
| of Project Azorian that Turtledove just came out with[0].
|
| [0]: https://www.amazon.com/Three-Miles-Down-Harry-
| Turtledove-ebo...
| makk wrote:
| That's fair. I didn't mention that I've gone in for intraoral
| bodywork to try to address TMJ as a possible issue. It hasn't
| yielded results, unfortunately. That doesn't prove anything
| one way or the other, of course.
| ctoth wrote:
| I have been hesitating to buy headphones with ANC after
| noticing similar anecdotes in reviews[0][1] of the Sony
| Wf-1000xm4. As a blind person my ears are super-important to
| me, and I am pretty sure that something's going on here with
| most ANC today. This feels like it's gonna be a big deal here
| in a couple years with some form of class action.
|
| [0]:
| https://www.reddit.com/r/sony/comments/vl3cpb/wf1000xm4_and_...
|
| [1]: https://www.amazon.in/gp/customer-
| reviews/R2E9LQN575IFWB?ASI...
| makk wrote:
| If there is a causal link and someone finds it with high
| enough confidence, then yeah it feels like a class action
| lawsuit is inevitable.
| moomoo11 wrote:
| I've been using ANC headphones basically 24/7 for years.
|
| I enjoy the silence. I wish in the future there's a way to do
| this via a brain chip or something and maybe even selectively
| completely filter out noise.
| schneems wrote:
| There's anecdotal correlation between neurodivergence (such as
| ADHD) and a difference in how people take in and process
| sensory input.
|
| I interpret this as ADHD developers who see hyperfocus are able
| to either tune down or ignore some of that audio sensory input.
| But the flip side is also true where they might accidentally
| hyperfocus on that specific annoyance/input.
|
| Or to put it another way: some of our brains can do this
| already. But be wary what you wish in terms of unintended side
| effects.
| layer8 wrote:
| Wishing for the brain chip too. I hate having my ears covered
| with headphones or clogged with sealing earbuds or plugs, but
| love silence.
| dinkleberg wrote:
| This is my dream too
| anarchy89 wrote:
| They already had tinnitus but it was never quiet enough for them
| to notice it. When you focus on other sounds it just kinda fades
| out.
| karlding wrote:
| I don't own AirPods, but one of the things that I've struggled
| with after the proliferation of headphone jack removal is that on
| all the Bluetooth headphones/earbuds I've tried the lowest volume
| setting is still too loud. I normally use Shure SE215s wired, but
| I've tried the Sennheiser PXC550, Sony WH-1000XM3, Jabra Elite 7
| Sport with similar impressions, and tried using my work 2021
| MacBook Pro as the audio source instead of my phone. Surely I'm
| not the only one who feels this way?
|
| On my Samsung phone, I've had to manually set individual app
| volumes to 80% via Sound Assistant, have additional volume steps
| enabled, _and_ have the system sound set to the lowest setting
| when using Bluetooth.
| erlend_sh wrote:
| Bought 1MORE BT per Wirecutter's recommendation and I've had
| the exact same problem, complete with tinnitus tendencies. The
| minimum volume seems highest when connected to my iPad.
| ShakataGaNai wrote:
| There are so many variables to this it's obnoxious. What do you
| define as loud? Are you using them in ANC? Is it regular Airpods
| or Airpods Pro? Do you notice tinnitus after using ear plugs for
| a while? When listening to music other ways?
|
| I have tinnitus due to ear infections when I was younger. In my
| subjective experience, my AirPod Pro's have not changed it in any
| meaningful way. I use them enough that I have two pairs of APP so
| I can swap when the batteries die. Now I also have added AirPod
| Max when I don't want the "joys" of fully in ear. Only mention
| that because they have similar ANC.
|
| The challenge with tinnitus is that it's highly subjective and
| can vary based on a lot of things. Just take a skim of
| https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/tinnitus/symp...
| -- There are 8 "Other causes" listed, with the last one being
| "including diabetes, thyroid problems, migraines, anemia, and
| autoimmune disorders such as rheumatoid arthritis and lupus have
| all been associated with tinnitus."
|
| There are certainly days when my Tinnitus is worse, to the point
| where I have to have sound on to keep me mentally stable. Other
| days when I forget I even have it.
|
| TLDR: If you have ringing in your ears that is bothering you, see
| a doctor.
| ghoogl wrote:
| the basic answer is that tinnitus is inflammation. so in order
| we reduce inflammation is either sumpplementation of food or
| avoidance of behavior that induces that response so the
| avoidance is possible through strength and conditioning like
| another commentor mentioned tensor tympani muscle activation is
| primary defense. secondary would be healthy diet. furthermore :
| a device that augments noise cancellation invokes a third
| princiople regarding muscles use it or lose it.
|
| theres a single cause to this which is damage to cilary hairs
| now under my own subjective belief is that these are a growable
| or compensatable based on the outcome of blind patients with
| increased hearing ability
|
| conclusion: ears do heal if the body is subjected with
| significant stress invoking amplitude same with any other
| possiblw ailment
|
| also finally since this was orignal about ringing in ears. this
| is overcomeable the ringing might be there still but the
| closest analogy i can give is layering. the human mind can
| extroplolate patterns amplify them
| rejectfinite wrote:
| Is this and airpod thing or noise cancel thing? Bose, Sony etc
| have had noise cancelling for some models for a long time. I
| guess release to normies is always a mistake. Next they are
| comming for the mechanical keyboards.
| bkm wrote:
| Tinnitus is also a post-covid symptom. They could be looking at
| the wrong culprit.
| vinyl7 wrote:
| At this point is every health irregularity a covid symptom?
| flerp wrote:
| Since tinnitus is basically a dead frequency span being accounted
| for by the brain, i highly doubt you'd be able to hear thwt same
| frequency again.
| precompute wrote:
| This is hardly exclusive to apple hardware. Putting small
| speakers on your ears isn't a very good idea in the first place.
| Let alone using them to block external sounds. You can get much,
| much worse tinnitus from not paying attention to the volume of
| your headphones.
| karmakaze wrote:
| I don't use AirPods specifically but every pair of ANC headphones
| I've used all exhibit that pressure that I feel but can't hear. I
| wish there was a way to dial down the ANC amount for less
| effective cancellation along with less ambient pressure.
|
| If I really want quiet like on a plane, I'll use non-ANC earbuds
| with good passive isolation and put a light pair of Bose
| cancellation headphones with no signal over top.
| Centigonal wrote:
| Bose headphones have a companion app (Bose Connect) that lets
| you choose between 4 levels of ANC (including no ANC).
| smcleod wrote:
| The Sony XM5 and Nuraphones both offer variable levels of ANC.
| The XM5s also show the estimated dynamic pressure as you're
| playing audio in the companion app.
|
| Not nearly enough people talk or are aware of dynamic pressure
| and how important it is.
|
| By far my favourite headphones are the Ultrasone Signature Pros
| - they're wired and non-ANC but very low dynamic pressure while
| being studio quality, truly fantastic headphones.
| qwertox wrote:
| I have the feeling that this is related to noise cancelling in
| general. I have some Sennheiser over-ear headphones with ANC and
| initially I had the same feeling. After using them I notice that
| my ringing (I already had tinnitus) got worse. It wears off after
| half a day or more, but it's slowly getting worse overall.
|
| My theory is that it's not possible to create an exact
| counterwave, so occasionally the delayed ANC "counterwave" will
| add up to the external sound, increasing it. Maybe this happens
| is very short bursts or mostly at frequencies which are too high
| to be really noticeable.
| originalvichy wrote:
| My totally non-scientifi guess why ANC is uncomfortable is that
| it could be ear "fatigue". What you said about the imperfect
| noise counterwave is what I'm guessing is the source of fatigue
| in the ear, because even though your surroundings sound more
| quiet, the ear canal is getting blasted by soundwaves right
| next to it.
|
| If I focus I can clearly feel my ears in "active" mode when
| using ANC. A sort of soft pressure. I have a feeling ANC
| silence is not real silence.
| leach wrote:
| I got tinnitus after COVID, had it for about a year or so now, it
| seems to get better or worse on its own and doesn't really have
| any pattern to it.
|
| I will say that when using ANC it bothers me much more if nothing
| is playing.
| mdmglr wrote:
| I developed tinnitus about 6 months ago and I've been using
| AirPods for 1 year before that. But not with noise cancelling.
| Independent research will need to be done on this.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| My very good friend works in a hospital as an
| otorinolaryngologist, specializing in hearing damage and hearing
| aids. I actually met her today for a long walk.
|
| According to her, tinnitus rates have absolutely exploded over
| her career (since 2002) and the correlation with frequent use of
| earbuds is very obvious.
|
| I know that correlation neq causation and all the stuff about
| anecdata, but I am not willing to dismiss concern of a doctor
| who, in the last 20 years, has seen thousands of people with
| hearing problems.
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